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BREAKING: Cats nab another young-un

Various internet sources now reporting Kentucky has secured a verbal commitment from ... wait for it ... AN EIGHTH-GRADER.

Michael Avery, a 6'4" combo guard out of Southern California, joins the nascent UK Class of 2012.

Seriously.

Clark Francis, the infamous recruiting guru, has Avery ranked as his No. 8 player in the class, No. 2 at his position, inexplicably listed as power forward.

A brief writeup from an AAU event in which his team went undefeated among strong competition...

Marc Maggard spoke to Michael's father about the commitment on his latest podcast, which I recommend. Great way of hearing how some of this stuff goes.

Avery recently spent time playing with Indiana Elite, the top flight AAU team which brought the world Greg Oden and Mike Conley, among others, and which currently boasts Stephen Van Treese, another UK target.

Avery also has played a level "up" on teams with players such as Duke commit Mason Plumlee and Treese, meaning this kid is getting into some very heady company recruit-wise.

More as it comes...

  [ED NOTE]...

For all of those folks talking about how sad this is, or how somehow we've crossed a line, what did you expect?

I'll address this in a future post, but you can't have it both ways. If you want elite talent a la UNC, Duke and Kansas, you have to be willing to play the game. We had a coach who was "above" such tactics. And it landed us more Mike Williamses and Sheray Thomases of late than it did Tywon Lawsons.

It's admittedly new ground for the program, but Billy Gillispie has a crack staff who is extremely visible on the AAU circuit. This trend, at least for now, of taking super early commitments is ahead of the curve. Maybe eventually, the game will change. But for now, I'd rather have a coach willing to play the game, short of cheating or shady street agents, than one who is above it and slowly fading into the woodwork.

End of brief rant...

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I can't help
but laugh.

Hell in 8th grade, my big decision was which type of cheerios to eat, not what school I'd be attending.

by piketaylor on May 1, 2008 1:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm too old ...
to remember the 8th grade.

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hanging my head
I know it was inevitable... but I can't help but be embarrased by this just a little bit.

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In a way ...
it seems almost pedophilic.

Well, you gotta keep up with the Jones', and the Floyd's, and the Williams' ...

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over the top...
...that terminology seems unnecessary.

These kids are playing AAU events 300 days a year against high school juniors and seniors.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh...
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's weird...but I think it's weirder to be happening to OUR team.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soon ...
it will be happening to almost every team in the upper tier.

Just reality.  Still seems ... a bit ... err... unctuous, I guess is the word I'm looking for.  Not at any one coach or anything.  Just in general.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yikes!
Can't the NCAA make this illegal too?  I mean, come on.  What if he's stopped growing?  :^)

by CW on May 1, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Being in 8th grade
There are no assurances he's been through puberty, so...

Welcome to out first commit from the class of 2016! Wow!

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on May 1, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very smart
Coach G is doing well again.  I was reading another article somewhere that says that the recruits choose who they choose because of the coach that's been "on them" the longest.  So it only makes sense to start as soon as possible.

by EEWildcat on May 1, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Matt Jones ...
had this to say:
I am not talking to 8th graders about basketball.

Classic.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 1:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But...
...he'll talk to adults with eighth-grade mental capacity about wrestling, so not sure the "high ground" here is all that high.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You shouldn't ...
... talk about Ken like that!

Oops -- Hi Ken!

Just kidding. :-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm only 8 hours late in reading this ...
... I'll get you Tru.  

Sleep with one eye open :)

by Ken Howlett on May 1, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OMG
THAT was funny!

by wilson452 on May 1, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Derby Draw
Did anyone catch Gillispie being interviewd by ESPN from 4th Street Live in Louisivlle for the KY Derby Draw yesterday? I wasn't aware it happened until today. . .

by blbskue on May 1, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also
Having grown up in Ashland, I know with certainty that OJ Mayo was being recruited HEAVILY as an 8th grader, maybe even as a 7th grader. I'm not speaking to the morality of such tactics, just pointing out another example of how it goes on.

I do agree with MJ on not interviewing the kid about it. I think a few years are in order before that takes place. A lot could change in 4+ years, like the commitment.

by blbskue on May 1, 2008 2:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
...and thought it was appropriate that Maggard spoke to the Dad, not the kid.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only 1 year younger than Zollo
Who did an excellent interview with Maggard.

I don't remember there being a big difference between an 8th and 9th grader when I was that age.  I expect the difference would narrow especially for an 8th grader who is spending time playing basketball with older kids.

by EEWildcat on May 1, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look up: Mr. Show - HBO
This was from mid/late 90's. David Cross.

One skit was of two low level college "scouts" watching 4 and 5 year olds play at day care and offering scholarships. They didn't have the money of big schools so they had to get in earlier and earlier.

Very funny stuff! And from 10-15 years ago.

by wilson452 on May 1, 2008 2:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LITERALLLY
Totally unrelated, I watched this this AM for the first time in years...weird!

Mr. SHOW PRESCIENT?

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is just freaky!
Deeper than that JL - I just had a person at lunch come up to me with their copy of a crappy CD I once recorded. They went to a Center College.

NOT KIDDING! 100% True.

All in one freaky day.

by wilson452 on May 1, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't
see a snub there. . .I went to Centre. . .just being sure there is no bashing of my alma mater in there. . .

by blbskue on May 1, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No no...
It's a bit of an inside joke.

Let's just say the fact that any of the kids we played shows for at Centre could actually REMEMBER that we played would be surprising, if not impossible.

Those kids sure know how to get wasted...or at least they did back in '95.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still do
I'm nearly 5 years removed from there, and as of then we/they still knew how to have a good time. From the rumors I've heard, the mid-90's were an especially juicy time to be at Centre.

by blbskue on May 1, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
JL and I did our part to help back then. I LOVE Centre. Great place and killer parties. HUGE budget for bands too. I would like my daughter to go there.

 JL and I watched the UK-UMass FF game there before a show. I was sick and had no voice, we had been paid too much, lots of drinking and throwing of bottles from the couch out a window every time UK did something bad. I prayed so hard we would win. If not I felt we would be run out of town. All was fine!

by wilson452 on May 1, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
Your bottle breaking comment brought back memories. I have no idea if it is as pervasive at other colleges, but we Centre kids LOVED smashing bottles. We actually had an alcove in the basement of my frat house dedicated to smashing bottles. Really, it was a good idea, at least the damage was contained.

Hope your daughter ends up there. It's definitely not a place for everyone, considering the average high school is larger, but you get a great education and have a lot of fun.

by blbskue on May 2, 2008 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bottle smashing in the basement
Intriguing... maybe its more widespread than I thought.  I can certainly guarantee you that if you were to look at the cinder blocks that make up the walls of the basement of the Sigma Chi house at Murray State, there is most assuredly glass fragments from 10 years ago!

The basement always made a good place for that sort of destruction.  For a while there, we went through an unfortunate phase of releasing fire extinguishers down there too.  That got expensive though and we had to put a stop to it!

by chirop1 on May 2, 2008 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lynagh's
I think I saw this band play at Lynagh's once - I had a man-crush on the bass player.

by olddoc on May 2, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...
what happens if these young kids end up getting hurt sometime before they get to college (or high school at that matter)?  I mean, I know that this is what it is and that to keep in the game we will have to compete, but my gosh, that is so far away - ANYTHING can happen between now and then.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 1, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Non-binding
This verbal is non-binding on either the university or the athlete. While we might take a PR hit if we just backed out for no reason, I think we'd be OK if the kid gets hurt or something.

by Acdixon on May 1, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let the names keep rolling...
This is great publicity for UK. All this top flight talent telling the nation that they want to play at UK for Gillespie. Others will look at that and may take a longer look at UK than before.

If the kid has been scouted..."Clark Francis, the infamous recruiting guru, has Avery ranked as his No. 8 player in the class, No. 2 at his position, inexplicably listed as power forward".....then he is good for a verbal commitment.

One last thing this tells me is that Gillespie is sending the message that he is going to be here for a time. "Sure kid, I know you just finished seventh grade but I'm gonna be at UK when you graduate. Hey, do really good in school, take summer courses and you could be playing in college when you are 17! Get three years of college  and finish with a degree and a good draft pick! I've got it all planned out for you. Here is the shot sheet I've mapped out......"

Keep blazing the trail Coach G!! Laying waste to rival coaches's dreams! :)

by bluecrip on May 1, 2008 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Would one of you Lexington residents please...
...mention my first grade son, Carson, to Coach G? His team just won the local YMCA's 7-9 year old league and, although he could probably use a little more seasoning, I couldn't help noticing a guy that looked suspiciously like Roy Williams at the championship game trying to blend in with the rest of the parents.

Thanks.

by tooblue on May 1, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
Hilarious!  I was saying the same thing to my co-workers!  My son is almost two and has a pretty good shot - how young is too young? ;)

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 1, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Financial Planning
If I can secure that scholarship now, I won't have to keep saving for college. Yippeee!

Gotta go now, it's time to work on Carson's crossover dribble.

by tooblue on May 1, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Complaining
Im glad Coach G has decided to go out and work for recruits. A person can change their commit an upteen number of times. All this does for us is make sure that people realize that we are the leader for their services, and it makes us a favorite in the mind of the kid at an early age. Its not like they are signing letters of intent. If they get hurt or dont develop Coach G just wont offer a scholly in 4 years when the boy graduates high school
Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Unbelievable!
We can't go against the top programs in the country and recruit so we look for eighth graders.
I'm an old guy, living in Florida and still have my season tickets for UK basketball. Ain't going to give them up because there is always a chance that Barnhart will quit and someone will actually bring in coaches who can raise us to the 'next' level.  Isn't it a shame to say that Kentucky basketball needs to get to the next level?
A football question to ponder. What if the wheels fall off this year in football and we go 3-9 or 4-8. Brooks decides he's had enough. Do we still get Joker? If so, do we have to wait 4 years to have a winning season or will the faithful see how stupid that move was.  Did we not think that maybe some coach with head coaching experience might be available? Sorry, Urban, we've already committed. There's that word again.  
Seeing as how Tubby averaged 27 wins a season, Trooper only needs to win 36 next year to average the same.

by Paris10 on May 1, 2008 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
Are you sure your name isnt MyBloodRunsBlue?

You seem to have a lot of the same charater traits as that guy.

Dont come with the negative waves man

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Going against the top programs
While I do experience dismay at the state of affairs that makes 8th graders viable recruiting fodder... in no way is Kentucky leading the curve in this movement.  By recruiting 8th graders, sadly we ARE competing with the top programs in the country.  We can lament the fact that 8th graders are being recruited, but rest assured that the Kansases, UNC's, UCLA's, and Dukes of the world are doing it too.

The Tubby comment at the end of your post was deliberately inflammatory and you know that you put it in there with all the maturity of the 8th grader we're recruiting just to get a rise out of some people.  Shame on you.

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If
your grammar/spelling was worse, and you typed in all caps, I would have assumed you were the douche that kept posting/flaming today over at Kentucky.com (or one of the myriad folks that post at the CJ's site constantly). Jeez man.

by blbskue on May 1, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Average W Per Season
Rupp averaged 21 W per season. Hall 23 W. Sutton 22 W. Pitino 27 W. Tubby 26 W (not 27 W).

Was Rupp UK's worst coach until lately?

Of course NOT.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an old guy too ...
but seriously, what has age got to do with a rant like that?

To each his own, I guess.  We certainly don't require anyone here to like the current head coach, or the AD.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with early commitments.
I had an offer to play at The University of North Carolina State when I was a freshman in High School, and it changed my attitude, and the way I played. Every night i felt that I had to go out and score 50 pooints instead of letting the game come to me and maintain my average of 27 a game.

After the offer, I never played the same way, and by the time I was a senior I had lost all interest in playing, mainly because I had become such a rock star in my own head that I was too good to practice and too nervous to play well. My Freshman numbers were 21 and 8, and my Sophomore numbers were 27 and 6 but fell to 19 and 5 by the end of the season. My junior year I was 13 and 5, and my senior year numbers were an apalling 4.3 and 4.

I went from being a good player to thinking my own crap didnt stink, and so i ended up forcing myself to try and play out of my comfort zone. I tell all of this to say that an early commitment is hard on a young player and I hope that the same doesnt happen to them.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not just your fault?
Was your family and coaches trying to set you straight?
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 1, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
I dont have much of a family. Basketball was always my way out. I am an orphan, and was raised by my grandparents. But the coaches cant do much for a mental block. I just basically got soooo caught up in wanting to be perfect I couldnt even be decent.

I kill in the church leagues now though

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I Offended
Sorry, I don't buy in to the garbage that Brooks and Trooper Billy is the best we could get for the Kentucky programs.
If I'm commenting on a site full of glad handers, we see no wrong, and the next Final Four is just around the corner people, than good luck and I hope the Easter Bunny gave you all the candy you wanted.

by Paris10 on May 1, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Glad handers?
Oh I don't know that I'd say that most posters around here are Little Miss Sunshine, but to take a deliberately negative viewpoint and frame it in inflammatory tones is generally frowned on.

There's plenty of room for dissonance and reasonable concern (the pre-hiring phenomenom in general bothers me) with many decisions.  Its all in how you phrase it.

Internet forums get awfully boring if everyone agrees, but they become awfully annoying when they are filled with empty rhetoric wrapped in a sarcastic covering.

PS  Yes the Easter Bunny brought me lots of chocolate.  Did you get enough?

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Easter Bunny
...I'm sure you can find plenty of sites for your not-at-all-unique brand of witless criticism without basis in any reality save the one rattling around in your skull.

Oh, and don't apologize for having an opinion, even a stupid one. I won't apologize for calling it what it is.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To Quote Jim Rome
When Billy Donovan turned down the Kentucky Job Jim Rome had this to say on ESPN radio.

"This shows that your no longer KENTUCKY, your just kentucky."

Dude, Adolph Rupp isnt walking through that door, and besides your whole argument against Coach Brooks is totally hypothetical. Who gets this upset over a hypothetical situation?

We tried for who we thought would be a homerun coach, turns out that Donovan would have been a bad fit because he likes to bad mouth his players, we tried for who we thought would be good and we got a man who works 24 hours a day to make kentucky, KENTUCKY again.

By the way, Santa Clause said hi.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't really ...
see any reason for your ranting against either coach.  Certainly Brooks has delivered an improved football program from the recent past, one that looks like it is continuing on the right path.  Will Phillips do as well?  We won't know until he takes the job.

And Gillispie has only had the head job at UK for 1 year.  I think even an unreasonable person would give him more than that.

And the Easter Bunny was very kind to me this year, thank you.  I was a very good boy this year.

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easter Bunny...
...brought Tru the cardboard Pitino cutout. :)
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 1, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am in awe
and flabberghasted at this news!

With Tru's post today about USC...I really thought that was way too young! Well Shwit, what do I know? LOL

by kykat51 on May 1, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You can't ...
say my post wasn't well timed!

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tubby Smith
I'm a Tubby Smith fan and think the bashers got what they deserved with Gillispie.  
If you think what we got now anyway compares to Tubby tell me where.

by Paris10 on May 1, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ROFL
Yeah, that pretty much explains it.  Now I know why you don't fit in...

Most people around here don't consider themselves Tubby fans or Gillispie fans... we are KENTUCKY fans.  You can trade in your blue and white for maroon and yellow at any time.

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your a tubby fan?
I couldnt tell.

This site doesnt need any more people coming on here for a week to start an argument about the Tubbs. You will find that 95% of everybody on here liked tubby and are still fairly strong supporters. What you need to do is adjust your panties that seem to be in a wad, and calm down, and understand that Tubby started with a lot more talent than did Billy.

Does that make either of them a bad coach? No.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...
that's fine, and I was a Smith supporter as well.

Gillispie has done fine so far by any reasonable measure.  Next year should give us a better read, and I do see more consistency in recruiting.

I just didn't expect to be committing 2012 recruits in 2008.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was a joke
I read about an 8th grader committing yesterday, but I thought it was some poster making a joke.  Guess I have to realize that, when it comes to recruiting and BCG, age has no limits.  Hope the committement holds-- sounds like another awesome player in the making.

Needless the say, BCG has UK on track to be back in the elite status again.  Keep up the good work, Coach.

by bevcat on May 1, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Enough
I give up.
good luck and you all keep dreaming.

by Paris10 on May 1, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Giving up?
Well shoot... and I really hoped you'd stick around long enough for a true Tubby basher to show up and make this a 100 post thread.

/end sarcasm

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haw!
Almost fell out of my chair on that one.

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK Early Commitments Before 2007 And 2008
Adam Williams committed in the summer between his Soph and Jr year in HS. He was rated Top 25 to 50 range at the time. He was NR as HS Sr.

Chris Harrison committed just before his Jr HS season. He was rated Top 100 then. He was NR as HS Sr.

Dominique Ferguson will be Top 5-10 as HS Sr.

KC Ross-Miller will remain Top 25. Dakotah Euton will drop to Top 50. GJ Vilarino has already dropped out of Top 100.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 4:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Paul McCoy
Sounds like he has verballed to SMU.  SMU???

by SevenRings on May 1, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He was always ...
a fan of SMU.

I wonder if Kentucky actually offered him.  I don't think so.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give me your comments
1. Backing out of the UMass game last year so we could get off to a good start.
2.Tearing up the Coliseum floor and throwing it on the trash heap.
It will be good to hear what real UK fans say about this.

by Paris10 on May 1, 2008 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

RE your comments
  1.  Was discussed at length a year ago.  Generally seen as a bush league move.  In retrospect, it would have been just one more loss on the pile.
  2.  Don't recall any real discussion about it around here, nor did the local news outlets in E-town pick up on it.  If as you say it was just trashed, my view is that it was a huge revenue loss.  People would have paid good money to have a piece of the floor framed and hanging on their wall.

by chirop1 on May 1, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Floor sales
  1. they didn't trash the whole thing, they kept the important bits
  2. It wasn't a modular floor....that thing was NAILED DOWN.  not feasible to spend the money to pull it up intact  because...
  3. when they tried to sell off the Rupp floor they failed horribly...most of it is STILL in storage.
  4.  Since so much of it was just sitting there MANY more fans got to take home a piece of it that ever would have if it had been sold.
I don't look at it as "thrown on the trash heap" , I look at it as "Free Memories"

by sylvar on May 2, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UMass, et al.
I think you'll find that Tru has already commented on the UMass situation. You'll see that he was fairly critical of Coach G. and Mitch Barnhart for this move, and from this fan's opinion, rightfully so. See, you don't have to love Billy G. 100% of the time to get respect around here. You just have to disagree in a respectable and respectful way.

In fact, in my opinion, Tru and FortyYear are amongst the most ardent Tubby defenders, but being a Tubby defender doesn't mean you have to bash Coach G. I happen to like them both. I happen to believe that Coach G. is moving the program in the right direction. Did he have a tough first year? Yep. But we are poised to be better in the coming years. One need only look at the marked in-season improvement this year to see that. They don't just throw around SEC Coach of the Year trophies for nothing.

by Acdixon on May 1, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK Has A Very Good Coach
UK had very good coaches.

Tubby's happy where he is. Gillispie too.

The rest is visible with eyes on the back of your head. God put them on the front of it for a good reason.

Look forward.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just let him recruit...
All I know is that there are never any guarantees.  How many times have we had a big time H.S. Senior commit who did not pan out the way we had all hoped?  How many times have NBA teams picked someone who was a surefire star and they never showed up?  And who knows how this young'un will look in 4 or 5 years?  None of us do.

But I trust our coach.  I train professional caddies for a living.  I've done it many years and have trained hundreds.  Not only that, I work with them by observing them to help them get better at what they do.  With my experience, I can watch a caddie from 100 yards away and tell you if he is doing a good job or not in about 5 minutes.  Is it possible that my opinion is wrong?  Sure.  Maybe the caddie is doing a terrible job but has made a special connection with his player that cannot be seen from that far away.  But I would say 97% of the time I can tell and I am right.

Our coach has the same kind of experience and knowledge base and feel for talent as well.  You have to develop it over the many years of watching basketball and watching players develop.  If he thinks a young guy can help us in 4 to 5 years I trust him. Could he be wrong?  Yep.  Could the kid be a bust?  No doubt.  But he could also be a jersey hanging in the rafters many years from now and I know if I was that kid, I would want the chance.  In fact, wanted the chance.  Unfortunately, I was not good enough.

by hoopchi on May 1, 2008 5:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

RE: NBA busts
I can think of two number one picks: Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown. The latter was picked by no less than Michael Jeffery Jordan. Anyone feel like knocking "His Airness" on his lack of basketball knowledge? Me neither. Too many intangibles for recruiting and scouting to be an exact science, but like hoopchi, I trust Coach G.

by Acdixon on May 1, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot one...
Sam Bowie....

Ouch that still stings, but if your talking about his airness you have to talk about the guy picked before him. One of our own, one of the biggest NBA busts.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 1, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1973 #1 Pick From Loyola IL
So much of a bust I can't even remember his name.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Doug Collins
http://www.nba.com/history/top_picks.html

Mark this one down! I'm dropping facts from web sites on FortyYear! That's gotta be a first. :)

by Acdixon on May 1, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

collins
doug collins was the pick in '73 out of Illinois State, but LaRue Martin was from Loyola in 1972 as the first overall pick.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on May 1, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figures I'd get it wrong
Plus, I was thinking if it is the same Doug Collins who now does commentary for TNT, he turned out to be a heck of a coach and commentator even if he wasn't a good player. (I wouldn't know what kind of player he was; he was drafted 8 years before I was born!)

by Acdixon on May 1, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

8 years
for me too...so i used wikipedia. he is the former coach of the bulls and current TNT personality.

interesting fact: he was the one who hit the two free throws to put the US ahead of Russia in that controversial 1972 gold medal game.

I didn't know that before...it was in here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Collins

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on May 1, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, LaRue Martin
And 1972 (not 1973).

My wife would say I Told Yo So.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your day will come
One of these days, Acdixon or somebody else will catch you slipping and then BOOM! you've been CORRECTED on the INTERNET!

:)
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 1, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JL, I rather enjoyed your rant.....
Personally, I wanted a coach who could recruit.  I wanted a coach who would scour the ends of the earth for top-tier talent and GET IT at UK.  Well, now that I got what I wanted, I am certainly not going to pick and choose what age he can start recruiting that talent.

These kids are giving a verbal commitment.  That's it.  They are not using their own blood to sign a binding document with Coach Gillispie and the University of Kentucky to sell their 14-year-old souls to the devil. These kids, their families and the coaching staff can change their minds at anytime.  I wouldn't think that these are your average 8th grade students.  If they are warranting the attention of UK at the age of 14, then I am thinking they must be something extremely special.  These are young kids with dreams of the NBA in their heads.  Getting into an excellent college that will ensure that dream becomes a reality is very likely a high priority for them and their families right now.

I will take a coaching staff that recruits 8th grade kids over a coach who openly and actively recruits committed kids any day.  

by BigSkyCat on May 1, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Something that concerns me

These kids are giving a verbal commitment. That's it. They are not using their own blood to sign a binding document with Coach Gillispie and the University of Kentucky to sell their 14-year-old souls to the devil. These kids, their families and the coaching staff can change their minds at anytime.

That last sentence concerns me. How many of these sophomore/freshmen/8th grader verbals can we expect to completely pan out? Right now, I'd say that a verbal commitment doesn't guarantee UK anything. If Coach K shows up at this kids house 3 years from now and cries, he might change his mind.

I'm hesitant to start making "Welcome to the Family" posts for young kids who verbal. But I understand what Gillispie and the rest of the college basketball world is trying to do; secure the projected top talent as best as they can. This is some sort of crazy futures trading game now.

The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 1, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

verbal
isn't a verbal commitment (especially this early) basically just saying that UK the leader by a considerable margin?
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on May 1, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I am not making any........
....."Welcome" signs either.

I also realize that these early verbal commitments might not pan out, and the younger the players are that BCG goes after, there is obviously more time before that player reaches his junior year and actual signing age.  He will most surely be inundated with other offers.  The unfortunate reality is that for every Billy Gillispie, there will be twice as many Bruce Pearl's in the recruiting world.  But I am still quite excited about the fact that we are getting to some of these kids FIRST.  Hopefully, in this bizarre game of recruiting that will count for something and make a difference with some kids and their families.  

As for Coach K crying, well, I would really hope that sight would scare the kid enough not to attend Duke.  And, actually, I am beginning to wonder if that isn't true, some of Duke's players do appear "soft" to me.   : )

by BigSkyCat on May 1, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Expectations Game...
...do not discount the gaming that goes on among these coaches.

Even Tubby Smith diehards would have to admit that Kentucky stopped having the appearance of a "destination" school under Smith. That says nothing about his track record or his value ... those are totally different animals.

But changing perceptions is very hard, and one of the only ways in recruiting to do this is to make your school the place kids want to be ...

Short of a return to the Final Four/prominence, something that may come or may not come, you have to get that "buzz" back.

I think -- and I am just speculating -- that on some level, Gillispie is trying to get that feeling back that Kentucky is a hot pick.

Remember, a 16-year-old kid right now was EIGHT YEARS OLD the last time UK made the Final Four.

While many UK fans seem aghast at the thought, that is the main reason that a kid can "choose Kansas State or Florida State over Kentucky."

And part of changing that is getting back on the radar ... Patterson and Rondo will help a TON with this ... witness Ferguson's specific mention of Patterson's development.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 1, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...
some other fella around here made these points recently.  Yes, I'm sure of it.  Let's see, I think it was ...  Me!

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

math
i'm certainly not known for my math, but wouldn't that 16-year-old have been 6 when the cats last made the final four? or have i somehow erased all memories of the 2000 team...certainly somewhat plausible too.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on May 1, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Lofton
I'm hearing he is revealing he had testicular cancer last summer, and played all season after undergoing radiation treatments, etc.  On one note, that certainly explains his "subpar" (for him) season.  But on another note - dang!  Hope he makes a full and complete recovery!

Is this true?

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on May 1, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That ...
just sucks.

I am so sorry he is having to suffer that.  I pray he will recover fully, and soon.  He seems like a high-quality young man.

by Truzenzuzex on May 1, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris
oh wow, guess he kept it secret for a long time.

I wish him the best in his full recovery and his career.

by kykat51 on May 1, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN Article Confirms It
Very few knew. His parents, UT coaches & medical staff, his roommate. That's all who knew.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 1, 2008 6:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome Michael Avery
As you can see we have a few crazies, but we're mostly good folk.

Looking forward to seeing you in the Blue and White!

by EEWildcat on May 1, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Take some advice, Michael
Stay away from Cat Fans on the Internet. You don't want old hillbillies asking you why you aren't averaging 30 points a game against high schoolers. When you're a junior and signed your LOI, jump online to practice your sports cliche answering. "I just want to contribute to the team and give my all. Kentucky has a history of excellence and I want to add to that through my hard work."
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 1, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Been in a jet all day. Just settled in and WOW this run is great. I like the new French guy from Paris.

But ken, look how far down I got before jumping back in.

Is Avery old enough to know that young girls get wooly?

by wilson452 on May 1, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody needs a breather
If Avery doesn't know that girls get "wooly", he will very soon.

by Ken Howlett on May 1, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

6'4", athletic...
...big basketball career ahead of him...

I bet he knows more about women than even your pool boy.  ;)

by EEWildcat on May 2, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My pool boy
Swears he knows not of the ways of love. I trust him.
I just know my wife has not been nagging me for being on ASoB at 1 am lately. HMMM???

by wilson452 on May 2, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who the heck is "Matt"?
"This is all Matt's decision," his father said. "He wanted to commit."

This kid go by Michael or Matt?

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on May 1, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And one more beauty from that article. . .
"He's got great tools for an eighth-grader," Crespi Coach Russell White said.

Um. . . so do I?

(I know what he's trying to say, it just came across as funny.)

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on May 1, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.........
all I can say.....now, if we could get just one more talented player for NEXT year, then all will be right with the world.........long term future is very bright..........

by Chuck Alexinis on May 1, 2008 9:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

embarrassed
I am ashamed of this.  No way can I get excited over an 8th grader.  Too many things that are uncertain lie ahead.  

by ukfan4sure on May 1, 2008 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I cannot say
that I am proud of the recruiting, but I am not embarrassed either.  The way I look at the whole thing, I certainly prefer that if these young promising prospects are verbally committing already, they are committing to UK -- and NOT KU, UL, D***, UF, or UNC instead.  Pick your poison I guess..... but I know what side of the fence I sit on - bring on the committments rather than let them go to other programs.

by cdnWildcatfan on May 2, 2008 12:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not sure if this has been posted on here any where
but Greg Doyel is reporting that Rick Pitino has he people talking with the Miami Heat and that he may have an eye on the Dallas jobs.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/8101090

by i got the blues on May 2, 2008 12:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Best Move Pitino could make...
RICK GO TO DALLAS!!!!

You could be the best coach ever there! and not have to live in the shadow of Denny Crum.

But you should probably start thinking up some kind of good excuse for why you still suck like "Jamal Mashburn is not walking through that door." Or something else like that.

I will pay for your plane ticket and your moving fees to take the Dallas Mavericks back to the basement of the NBA like you did with the Celtics who are JUST NOW recovering.

GO RICK GO!!!

But before you do hold a press conference telling U of L how much you love them, the fans, and the tradition there.

That way you will feel comfortable.

I hate you

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 2, 2008 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be damned...
I never pictured Rick to be the kind of guy to make the same mistake twice.  Maybe he figures that the Kentucky job might be open in three years after he fails in Dallas/Miami.

As for the Miami job... I thought they hired the kid who used to work in the film room that had no head coaching experience?  He sat there at the presser with Riley.

In all fairness to Rick and the Celtics, they are not "just now recovering."  They made a run to the Eastern Conference finals a few years back with Walker and Pierce as their main pieces.  I'm thinking they lost to either the Pistons (at the beginning of their run) or maybe the Nets (at the end of their run).

The severe derth of talent in Dallas' history would make his "walking through that door" commentary a little empty wouldn't it?  "Dirk Nowitzky isn't walking through that door... oh wait, here he comes now."

(As an aside, my above post about this being a 100 post thread turned out to be somewhat prophetic.)

by chirop1 on May 2, 2008 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tongue in cheek
I had forgotton about the C's run to the conference finals a few years back.

And I realize that Dallas has a huge amount of aging talent. I was just being fececious and playing off the comments made earlier by the Traitor.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on May 2, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Color me ...
... skeptical of anything Doyell says that remotely resembles hard news.

I hate Doyell less now that a couple of years ago, but it will be some time before I believe something like this coming from him.

by Truzenzuzex on May 2, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee Todd not happy
From Jerry Tipton, http://www.kentucky.com/254/story/393152.html

"When news of the commitment reached a meeting of the UK Athletics Association Board of Directors on Thursday, it stunned school President Lee T. Todd Jr.

"An eighth-grader?!" he blurted out.

After noting that plenty of time remained for such an early commitment to be rescinded, Todd expressed his wish that Kentucky not regularly seek a college choice from a child who had not yet entered high school."

by blbskue on May 2, 2008 8:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Todd
I think Todd has enough to worry about - budget crisis, hiring freeze, tuition increase (AGAIN), NO raises for employees..... leave the recruiting to Billy.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 2, 2008 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...
Todd has the same concerns that many do about players so young accepting scholarship offers -- concerns about whether or not someone so young can make anything resembling an informed decision.

Most adults would prefer that kids choose college when there is reason to believe that they are making that decision as an adult.  When someone is 17 or 18 years old, our society presumes that they are near enough to being considered an adult to make at least a semi-responsible decision.

But when a 14 year-old makes that kind of decision, I would say the presumption is, if not reversed, subject to significant skepticism.  I think that is the concern of Dr. Todd, and I think it is warranted.  I agree with his hope that we see this kind of thing rarely.

We all know, and must accept this as the cutting edge of recruiting.  I suspect the NCAA will be addressing this issue soon, and there may or may not be legislation.  But Todd's reaction is illustrative of what we can expect from the other college presidents if this becomes a widespread trend.

by Truzenzuzex on May 2, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
...just a little down on Todd here lately.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 2, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hypocritical ...
... so I'm guessing that when UK was sending me academic recruiting pamphlets in the 8th grade, that was just because they were interested in my well-being?

Please. These college presidents shit gold because of their athletic programs, so feigning moral outrage is just, as the French would say, Gar-Bahje.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 2, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where ...
... is this moral outrage, feigned or otherwise?

I see none from Todd's comments.  I do see some concern, which I believe is shared by many.

Imputing hypocrisy to him based on the comments he made there seems a bit over the top to me.

by Truzenzuzex on May 2, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
... "an EIGHTH-GRADER?!" implies he is incredulous.

I see no reason for incredulity unless he feels this is somehow a rotten place to take things.

Ergo, outrage.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on May 2, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...
... incredulity is certainly warranted.  I know that was my first reaction, tempered by the fact that is was hardly new.

Is this a "rotten place to take things?"  I hardly think that is relevant, either to him or anyone else.  We are already there, and have been for some time.  From the standpoint of being a "consenting adult," is there really a significant difference between the 8th and 9th grade?  I hardly think so.

  But I think many fans, particularly older ones, feel that such commitments are somehow just wrong.  They aren't in any measurable or strict sense, but I can appreciate the consternation some feel that we have come to this point, Todd included.

by Truzenzuzex on May 2, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Todd
I've been down on Todd for about four years now. The man does not care about students one little bit and no the tuition increase is not what makes me say that. The sooner UK is done with him the better.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 2, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree
I'm not a fan of Lee Todd.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 3, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Verbal Commitment
Could someone clarify for me the requirements for a verbal commitment?  I know that coaches cannot have formal contact with a player until they are a junior. (heh heh... yeah, right)  So what prompts a verbal commitment in these situations?  Do schools offer a scholarship?  Can players just up and say "I'm committing to Kentucky"?  Along the lines of the kid who staged a press conference saying he was going to USC (I think it was) even though he'd never been offered?

by chirop1 on May 2, 2008 10:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In this case ...
Avery's father called Gillispie, and Gillispie extended the offer after they spoke.  His father relayed the offer to his son, and his son decided to accept.

Gillispie cannot have direct contact with the young man until his junior year in high school.  All contacts will have to go through his coach, his parents or other persons representing his interests.

by Truzenzuzex on May 2, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got it
I felt it JL.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 2, 2008 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Me too.
I took the same thing from reading it.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 2, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spare the rod and
spoil the Todd. Be off with you Mr Todd for you give us no ground for courtesy.

by bluecrip on May 3, 2008 5:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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