Could Gillispie be tempted away to Stillwater?
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 8:37 AM EDT
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69 comments
Now that Oklahoma State University has forced out Sean Sutton, we have seen lots of speculation around OSU and Kentucky circles about Billy Gillispie being tempted away from Lexington to pick up the reigns in Stillwater. Of course, #1 on OSU's wish list would surely be Kansas coach and former Gillispie mentor Bill Self, a graduate of Oklahoma State. Self has tried to stifle any rumors about leaving Kansas, but in reality, any coach in the midst of a Final Four run would do that. It is remotely possible he may feel differently next Wednesday morning, but my money would be on Self staying put. In fact, some (and please do consider this source) believe that Gillispie has been the target all along. But since there is so much conversation in the Big Blue Nation this week about the possibility of Gillispie being tempted away should Self prove immovable, I though I would try to sort out this puzzle. For the sake of this article, I will assume that Self can't be tempted out of Lawrence (not necessarily a good assumption at all, Seth Davis notwithstanding).
Let's look at Gillispie's motivations for leaving. First, it is said by some (like the Loathsome Troll Jeff Goodman ) that Gillispie does not like the spotlight of a major program like Kentucky. That reasoning is appears to be based on rumors that Billy Gillispie is a hard-drinking, hard-partying kind of guy and prefers to be at a program where that sort of lifestyle will not be subject to the fishbowl that is the Kentucky sports media and fans.
Rumors aside, it is not impossible that Gillispie does not like the high level of public scrutiny in Lexington. That is a tough lifestyle to get used to, and coming as Gillispie does from a program that had traditionally treated basketball more as a necessary evil than as an actual revenue sport, the difference in everyday pressure between the two jobs is dramatic. Gillispie knew this coming in, but it is surely possible that he may have had (and possibly still is having) second thoughts about the Kentucky job. With that said, it has been obvious during the turnaround this year and beyond that Gillispie has come to terms with being an important public figure, and as he has had some limited success, the constant drumbeat of unfounded rumor and innuendo has ground down from a roar to a barely-audible whisper. This is to be expected, and are part of the growing pains associated with one of the top jobs in college basketball. It is also true (fortunately) that the rumors that generated this kind of thinking seem to have no legitimate basis in fact. There have been no credible reports anywhere of Gillispie living a life reminiscent of my fraternity days, only whispers on the Internet. So as a motivation for leaving, Goodman's rationale seems to be nothing more than baseless speculation.
Second, the fact that Gillispie has no formal contract with Kentucky is said to be illustrative of his unhappiness. Gillispie is operating under a 2-page Memorandum of Understanding, and some theorize that the coach has issues with the athletic department's insistence that he be bound contractually not to run amok among the town folk of Lexington, driving recklessly intoxicated at 4:00 AM and ravishing coeds like some kind of 21st century Conan the Barbarian. While nobody but the principles know why the formal contract has not been signed yet, and I think it's safe to say that there are some parts of the proposed instrument that Gillispie does not want to agree to. It could be a disagreement over anything from appearance fees to buyout clauses, and it just goes to show the depth of human depravity that the thinnest and most baseless rumors of moral turpitude are automatically assumed to be the reason behind the lack of a formal contract.
But once again, we must not rule out the possibility that the lack of a formal contract may in fact make it easier for Gillispie to be lured away -- in other words, this is a talking point that actually has some substance. I have said before and will say again that the lack of a formal contract was a problem that would only get worse, and now we see exactly why. It is much easier to work around an MOU than a contract, and I know this from direct experience. This is a weakness in Kentucky's strategy to retain Gillispie, and demands attention on the part of the athletic department.
Finally, we have the argument that T. Boone Pickins Pickens ([editor's note, by Truzenzuzex] Sorry 'bout the typo, Mr. Pickens) OSU alum and multi-mega-gazillionaire, will make Gillispie an offer he can't refuse if Self resists OSU's advances. The rationale goes like this -- if Gillispie can get more money for a lower-pressure job in his old stomping grounds of the Southwest, why wouldn't he take it, especially at Oklahoma State who has a fairly solid basketball tradition?
This will come as a shock to many Kentucky fans, but this argument is not fatally flawed. There are certainly charms to the idea of being paid millions to coach in a place close to home with significantly lower pressure on performance and plenty of tough competition to prove yourself against. If you believe the sometimes (but hardly authoritative) argument that Gillispie is a rebuilder at heart and not really meant for coaching "old money" schools like Kentucky, this argument sounds even more persuasive.
The counter-argument, however, is equally strong. Kentucky is one of the top 5 coaching jobs in all of college basketball by most estimates, and those jobs don't come open all that often. This is most likely Gillispie's one and only chance to make a true legacy for himself at one of the great college basketball programs in the nation. But instead, the argument goes, he is supposed to abandon all this to take the coaching job in Backwater Stillwater, Oklahoma so he can resurrect OSU and somehow change it from a football school into a national basketball contender. Doesn't sound as likely when you put it that way, does it?
Still, if Tubby Smith's leaving taught us nothing else, we learned that being happy on the job is a powerful consideration, and if Gillispie is truly unhappy at Kentucky, he will very likely take a job that pays more (or even the same) money at a school closer to his old stomping grounds if such a situation were offered to him. Make no mistake, just as we really know nothing about how Gillispie lives his life, we have nothing more than his public pronouncements about how he feels about the job here at UK and none of us, I think, would gamble our lives that those statements reflect reality 100%. Bottom line -- you never know.
Update [2008-4-4 17:38:6 by Truzenzuzex]: After reading many comments in other fora by OSU fans who read this piece, it seems I got the whole "football school" thing wrong. Perhaps it would have been more correct to say "football state", as Oklahoma is perceived. The Cowboy fans apparently see themselves as more of a golf and wrestling school, and I am certainly not in a position to gainsay them. Apologies to any who were offended by my unfamiliarity with OSU's athletics program.
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Great Piece
Thank goodness the speculation can't go on too much longer. OSU has to make an offer sooner rather than later--to someone.
I guess we will find out what really drives Billy Clyde Gillispie.
by BigSkyCat on Apr 3, 2008 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Depressing
I had almost gotten over my anxiety that BCG may leave.
The MOU has a significant buyout clause that BCG would have to adhere to, T. Boone may be willing to pay that, but who knows.
The fact that we have not heard anything tells me that Self is the first choice for OSU. Same as Donovan last year. OSU is not going to approach Self until after the Final Four. The only other idea is that OSU is speaking to BCG right now about the position.
Let's put this in perspective. We are all pleased with BCG and the changes he has made at UK, but in the grand scheme of things, if he leaves we will find another very good coach to take the reins.
All that being said, my gut tells me he stays. I think he is emotionally invested in UK and can see great things for himself and the program. He can win at OSU, but the opportunities and resources at UK are virtually unmatched.
by gacatfan on Apr 3, 2008 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe he'll stay
He has often said how happy he is here and that he loves having a fanbase as obsessed as he is about basketball.
The stories that often pop-up about his involvement in the community (call-in radio, walkathon, going to cincy to be with Keightly) all point to how well he is adapting to his job as the Kentucky basketball coach.
Furthermore, he has only just begun to rebuild this program. With all of the four and five star recruits coming in the next few years it's hard to imagine him leaving.
I don't however believe Coach G will remain here forever. He does seem have the personality of someone who is destined to wander when a situation becomes stale to him, but this can't be the case after only one year.
by TrickyD26 on Apr 3, 2008 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he stays too.
Final note:
Avg Attendance in Rupp this year: 23,421 Rank #1
Avg Attendance at Oklahoma this year:10,023 Rank #45
enough said.
by sylvar on Apr 3, 2008 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're on a roll
The MOA has a buyout clause in it. It's a strong as a contract. It's been signed. That's what keeps coaches at the schools they are at. THE BUYOUT. The fact that it isn't a formal contract makes no difference. There is a buyout and that is all that matters.
by goukcatsgo on Apr 3, 2008 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't ...
As far as Hopson is concerned, I'll correct that when you supply proof that I'm wrong. I don't know you from a load of coal, the only time you seem to post here is to tell me I'm wrong about something.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing ...
That may be true, and it may not, depending upon what is in it and what documentation is available to support what is contained therein. In the final analysis, such instruments are not designed to substitute for contracts, and one or both parties' rights are at risk when they are used as such.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attorney me here again
I don't know what's in it, and I'm not going to take the time to figure out definitively what's in it or what is enforceable (unless someone wants to hire me and pay my hourly rate that is), but I have said it before, and I'll say it again here, Tru and others are 100% correct is pointing out the fallacy of the agreement for a multi-million dollar employment being reduced to two pages. I've seen hourly jobs with MUCH longer contracts. Hell, my apartment lease is 6 pages.
You can assume that a typical major university head-coach employment contract is many tens, if not over 100 pages. This should tell you that something is missing in this two page agreement. Sure, maybe all or most of it is legally enforceable, making it very difficult/expensive for Gillispie to leave, or maybe not. I'd rather not continue to operate that way or under these assumptions - for the good both parties to the agreement. This stuff just isn't good business behavior.
by blbskue on Apr 3, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw this yesterday...
"Holder said he has not contacted any other schools to ask to speak with their coaches. Two prominent coaches with connections to either Oklahoma State or the state of Oklahoma, Bill Self of Kansas and Billy Gillispie of Kentucky, have indicated they would not leave their current jobs."
There is also a video on that page of Self saying he is not interested.
I'd still like some more concrete assurance from BCG that he's not interested though.
by KYColonel on Apr 3, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bill Self video
Unless there is an actual offer from OSU, I don't think BCG will address the issue publically--being the private person that he is.
by BigSkyCat on Apr 3, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not going anywhere
by cardsfan84 on Apr 3, 2008 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"I'm just ...
That statement, if it is ever issued, is presumed to overcome all previous statements that may stand in opposition. We all know this.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff, Tru
I think there's a reasonable chance Gillispie is tempted away but my gut says he stays. He doesn't strike me as a quitter and assuming P-Pat and Meeks are healthy in '09 (all appearances are that they will), he has the chance to start making his mark on Kentucky basketball. It will likely take a season or two but the man can obviously recruit and he can be successful in the bluegrass.
Whether he really likes it in Lexington or not, no one will ever know. That's how it is now with college coaches. None of us know, no matter what. BCG will play the old game of "charm 'em to death" until the last second and if he goes, he'll be gone in an instant and that will be the last you hear from him. But I don't see it happening.
by Gatorpilot on Apr 3, 2008 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another non-UK, non-OSU take
- If BCG were to go to OSU, it would not be any kind of indictment on the UK program. As you referred to earlier, coaching at an old tradition like UK or KU has unique costs - almost no privacy, insanely high expectations, criticism from every "expert" in the state, tons of pressure from every direction, etc. Some people who are great coaches find that to be too much distraction and to have too negative of an impact. If that's the case with BCG, a move on this motive would speak of his personal thresholds more than anything else. (And if he did leave for this reason, then I'd have a ton of respect for him choosing his sanity over prestige.)
- I don't know his history, but you mention his Big12-ish roots. That's a huge draw for some people (I'm from Wyoming and I'd absolutely love to live back there, even at cost of half my earning potential). Usually with high-end coaches, it's not a prime factor because their competitiveness wins out. But you never know, and it's another perfectly respectable reason.
- I don't know this gazillionaire, but if he's willing to pay enough and UK can't match, there's nothing wrong with him getting the highest salary he can get. It's not a "pure" motive, but another not-pure motive is coaching at a place because of its prestige. Prestige is a more abstract form of currency, and pursuing it is not all that different than pursuing money.
- Staying at UK is mechanically easier: no move, no establishment of new recruiting ties, no hassle of building a staff, no new boosters/trustees/psychostalkerfans to learn. Usually there has to be a reason to overcome those.
- Anymore, the draw of the "old power" is not as strong as it used to be. It's a lot easier for less-prestigious programs to build and compete - so long as they can hold onto a good coach. And in today's market, many schools can compete with the traditionals for coaches on the basis of salary and support; it's just the recruiting ties that take work. (But with the digital age, it's a heck of a lot easier for a good coach to advertise a program than it used to be.) The argument for UK/KU/UNC/UCLA is still there and still strong, but it's not as strong as it once was.
- The MOU/contract issue probably has a rather simple explanation that we just can't verify due to lack of information. It may be a good reason or it may be asinine, but it's not a difficult one or something would have leaked out by now. I personally don't think this issue matters. Period. The reason is that he'll have a contract next year no matter where he's at. Once the contract is signed, the MOU is ancient history and irrelevant. Besides, BCG is in a much better position to negotiate with UK for a contract now than at midseason. Perhaps the delay was on his end to wait for better leverage or simply to wait for the season to end.
by Hooper on Apr 3, 2008 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Number 6
Take that for what its worth...it was a from a Tipton article.
by sylvar on Apr 3, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee you
by Hooper on Apr 3, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very interesting points
Although there are reasons for Gillispie to consider this job if it is offered, I still strongly think he's unlikely to go, just because I get the impression he's insanely competitive and wants to win with a burning intensity. OK ST is a pretty good opportunity to do that--but Kentucky is a much BETTER opportunity to do that. Like Gillispie has said, you have every opportunity and advantage to win, and win big, win CHAMPIONSHIPS at UK, at a level that very, very few places can match--and Oklahoma State aint one of those places.
If it were ME, and I could somehow pretend being a Kentucky basketball fan wasn't just part of my being--it is possible I would rather be at a place like OSU. Happiness and contentment in my real, non-work life mean more to me than being at the top of my field. THe intense, unyielding 24-7-365-ness of being UK basketball coach, the not even being able to go to the grocery store without people swarming you, is certainly not of everyone. Personally, it would drive me insane. I need to have a life outside of work--my job is just one little part of me. Hopefully Gillispie feels differently, and I believe he does.
When the Billy Donovan drama, the will-be-or-won't-he come to UK was going on, I remember feeling slightly uncomfortable when I considered that if it were me, and I didn't have the same loyalty to Kentucky and the ingrained belief that UK basketball is the best thing in the whole world--then if I were Donovan, I'd probably be very likely to stay at UF myself. I remember thinking--well, if he comes or not comes down to whether he places priority on personal happiness (with plenty of work success), or on a once-in-a-lifetime shot at being an absolute legend at the very tip-top of his field. I would likely take the first, but highest-level coaches, like people at the highest level of any field, probably tend to be hypercompetitive superdriven egomaniacs. So I think that's why the old-money programs do still have their luster.
I'm curious how much of this luster they do still retain--as you discuss in point 5. I'm sure you're right that it isn't how it used to be. Nouveau riche programs, like FLorida and Memphis, can obviously compete on the same level as the older ones, and not for just a fluke season or two. But it's so interesting that the three of the four examples of the blue-blood programs that you list are in the final four this year. THree of the Four! (and we're the one that's not. Damn it.) That's pretty amazing testimony to the power to consistently win that is STILL offered at these schools.
by blue kentucky girl on Apr 3, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tradition still has its strengths
But like you, I'm not sure how much it has diminished. I know that it wasn't enough to get Schiano from Rutgers to Michigan football. Also, Saban didn't go to Alabama because of its tradition. He went because of money and the potential to build a championship team in the present.
And coaches tend to be workaholics. Even at OSU, BCG would pull the same long hours and weeks that he does at UK. But the interaction with the people around him would be different; he'd have a lot more leverage with the AD, for example. He'd also give up being the Grand Poobah, to some degree. Just as some people couldn't handle the UK-coaching life, other's couldn't trade the fanaticism for a slightly more average enthusiasm.
by Hooper on Apr 3, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I meant to add
That, and if he leaves he won't have to deal with that S-E-C speed! ;)
by Hooper on Apr 3, 2008 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the sake of argument...
by 2 Wycked on Apr 3, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the sake of argument...
Crean: Heard he's busy nowadays.
Traitor Rick: Ah, no.
Knight: Ok, quit laughing. I was kidding.
Thad: Oh please, no!!! So over rated in my book
Sean Sutton: Heard he's kinda free right now.
Personally, I think it's a moot point. Coach Clyde is goin' nowhere soon. But, I've been wrong before.
by richlthompson on Apr 3, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't prove a negative
I know his cousin and the folks at UHA very well. They ALL SAY HE'S LIVED HERE HIS ENTIRE LIFE.
I've seen the MOU. It states CLEARLY that if BCG leaves while under the MOU he has to pay a large buyout. I believe it's 2 mil this year and decreases 500k each year...
by goukcatsgo on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't prove a negtive?
I read that somewhere other than Matt's site a long time ago, I just can't find it anymore. Doesn't make it false. And I tend to be skeptical of people I don't know claiming knowledge of things like that. I write what I believe to be true, and I'm not willing to take your word otherwise at the present time, but I will take it under advisement, for what that's worth.
I understand your point about the MOU, and that is all well and good. My entire point was that I never said or suggested the MOU didn't contain a buyout clause. Never. I don't know why we are debating a point I never made.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MOU
Further, the MOU is public information. Do an open records request for it.
by goukcatsgo on Apr 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
It is simply irrelevant to what I wrote. Nothing in it is at odds with any of my remarks. We are debating a discrepancy that does not exist.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is MJ's take on the MOU - 02/26/2008
- $400,000 base salary with an escalator of $25,000 a year
- $1.9 million a year for "Broadcasting and Endorsements" with an escalator of $50,000 a year
- Supplemental consideration of up to $850,000 for acheiving athletic and academic benchmarks, which include:
SEC Tournament Title: $50,000
NCAA Tournament Appearance: $50,000
NCAA Tournament Sweet 16: $75,000
NCAA Tournament Final 4: $150,000
NCAA Championship: $375,000
Academic Progress Rate of 950+:$50,000
Graduation Rate of 75%+: $50,000
- Another $250,000 contributed annually by the University to a deferred compensation plan that vests four years after the date of employment if he remains coach through that date. Over the seven years of the contract, the University will contribute $1.75 million to this plan.
- Regular Staff benefits (YEAH MEDICAL!)
- Reimbursement of Moving Expenses (He can hire Two Men and a Truck now!)
- One vehicle provided by University
- A Club Membership
- A termination for cause provision is to be agreed upon by the parties
- Termination without cause requires a $1.5 million annual payment for at least 48 months
- Acknowledgment of acceptance of the NCAA policies for enforcement of NCAA rules.
The Memorandum does state that its terms are contingent upon executing a final employment contract, which of course does not yet exist. But its terms are actively being used by both parties and represent the course of performance between the two of them at this time. The Memorandum states that Athletic Director Mitch Barnhart hopes to conclude the process of finalizing the contract within 60 days....something that obviously hasnt happened yet. Nevertheless the material provisions of the Understanding are being executed, and you can be sure that the University likely believes that the buyout clause will have the same force that the salary clauses do in the current Agreement.
by gacatfan on Apr 3, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attorney me here again (2) (SEE WAAAAYYY UPPPP)
This is the exact type of language that concerned me. On top of that the document states that a contact would be finalized in 60 days. 60 days have passed, meaning that everything in the MOU could be null and void, despite who signed it and what legal significance it once had. No legal conclusions here, but that type of wishy-washy language troubles me. On other hand, both parties have contributed significant performance to the agreement, thereby possibly ratifying it and making it legit.
If I remember correctly, Matt Jones is a lawyer too. If he's not worried, maybe I shouldn't be either, but 98% of my day is spent defending companies when contracts go wrong. Of course, that could also make me overly negative when I see HORRIBLY written "agreements."
Bottom line - if BCG wants to go, he should, and hopefully it won't cause a mess. If he wants to stay, get a K in place. If he does go, I almost hope the MOU has no legal significance, so he can go quietly without causing a ruckus and we can move on. Whether legally binding or not, MOU or contract, if he wants to go he'll go. T.Boone can drop that $3 mil without blinking. I just don't see it happening.
If you read this MJ, tell Johnny Bruce that Ethan M.'s old college roomate says hey. Heard you two were working together now.
by blbskue on Apr 4, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
coach talk
http://newsok.com/article/3224663/1207195343
You have everyone from Coach G, Bill Self, Kevin Stallings, even Tubby Smith is mentioned.
Obviously not to be taken too seriously, but I got quite a kick out of it.
Frankly I just don't believe Coach can be bought. Is happiness an issue, Ok maybe. But really, happiness for BCG and happiness for the rest of us are two different things. The man's social AND work life revolve around the game of basketball, how can he win more games, score more points, limit possessions. How can he recruit every toddler, grade-schooler, junior high, high school and Juco player out there? There is no separation between work and home. If he is truly unhappy at UK something tells me that happiness for him can wait. I think BCG is after much bigger things (for him).........LIKE #8!
by BigSkyCat on Apr 3, 2008 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of those are..
by wldcatsfreak on Apr 3, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most hilarious part
*B*illy Gillispie
*C*hris Lowrey
*D*ana Altman
*E*SPN Analyst Bob Knight
*F*loyd, Tim
*G*onzaga coach Mark Few
The list goes on and on.
Ah, Oklahoma education...
by TrickyD26 on Apr 3, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here ya go
I can't prove that he isn't from florida. That's what you're doing by asking me to prove you wrong. All I can do, is say that Jones is wrong because I've had people in Scotty's family and at UHA say he's lived here his entire life.
Further, I know for a FACT he's been at UHA since the 7th grade. So, that leaves about 12 years of his life that is up for debate. According to people I know here in Hopkinsville, he's been here his entire life. Do you trust Matt Jones, in Louisville, or me, in Hopkinsville with family involved at UHA?
by goukcatsgo on Apr 3, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a damn?....
by Ken Howlett on Apr 3, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I was thinking
Who cares about Hopson anymore anyway? He made his decison, for better or worse, the end (unless he changes his mind again...). From what I read about him it sounds like he'll be better suited to the UT style, he'll probably walk right into some playing time, and we aren't hurting at his position anyway. We've plucked plenty of talent from Tennessee over the years--top players leave their home states to play all the time. I wish him best of luck at UT and look forward to making him think twice about his decision by beating his team regularly : )
by blue kentucky girl on Apr 3, 2008 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point (if you had one)
You blather about non-sense, insult the writer of this blog, and then of all things ask him to trust a stranger to the site who's only here to criticize?
Give it up buddy
by TrickyD26 on Apr 3, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BCG
However, I also think that such priorities are found less frequently in the people that do in fact become one of the best in their respective field.
I would say I am a rather driven individual and I still have a very easy time understanding the argument that he may be very tempted by a lifestyle more suited to his personal liking. Like I said though, I do not think many people become good enough coaches to even be considered for a coaching job at a school such as UK (much less be given the job) if they are not purely driven by winning more basketball games and more championships than anybody else - and that is not something he can do at OSU.
by cdnWildcatfan on Apr 3, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
enough success
by BigSkyCat on Apr 3, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I know
by tenken on Apr 3, 2008 7:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Put the questionable lifestyle comments...
Give me a f'n break already.
As far as coach looking elsewhere for employment, when looking through my big blue shaded glasses, I just don't see happening. The man comes across as one part serious basketball junkie and one part workaholic. It would seem as though the head coaching job at Kentucky is taylor made for someone wired like that.
Look at every move he has made to reach UK... asst. coach, head coach at UTEP, head coach at Tx. A&M (I lived in El Paso, trust me College Station is a move upwards) and now he is the head coach of the mens basketball team at the University of Kentucky. Notice any patterns...each move is a move up the ladder. None of the decisions he has ever made suggest he plans on moving a few rungs down to coach at OK. ST. (Any Cowboys fans that happen across this, my apologies, but let's face it when talking top basketball schools, OSU never enters the conversation.)
The man is if nothing else goal driven and I for one would find it hard to imagine his goals would be set any lower than coaching at one of the elite programs in the country.
by wldcatsfreak on Apr 3, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you saw Coach tonight........
Look..he is the right man right now for this job...if leaves, then that would be most unfortunate and he would lose a great deal of credibility on the recruiting trail as he would be seen as a job hopper...with little to no success in getting players to the next level...except for Law...
I just see him being here for the long term and establishing himself as one of the top coaches in the country and returning UK to glory...if he does that, then he will make his MILLIONS living off this glory and being revered like Rupp, Hall, and Pitino....I think that drives him...let's move the heck on....
by Chuck Alexinis on Apr 3, 2008 8:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you saw Coach tonight........
He may not be the best and most eloquent speaker, but he sure does speak from the heart. IMO, that makes him more endearing than ever.
by BigSkyCat on Apr 3, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Traded E-Mail With My K-St Coaching Friend Today
Anyway, Bill Self is Okla St's 1st choice. My friend thinks he will decline it after getting more $$$ from KU.
Next choice is Gillispie. Okla St will pursue him very aggressively. My friend think he will listen and may "want out" (his words exactly) at UK.
Take it FWIW. I disagree with my friend but he talks to actual coaches (etc) in the Big 12.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 3, 2008 10:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
AAAAH
Its time to take the comments down on this one Tru.
(im not telling you how to run your blog just offering an opinion)
G's not going anywhere.
by davw83 on Apr 3, 2008 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad To Send U The E-Mail, Tru
Clipped it right there.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 3, 2008 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We have all ...
I can't say whether your friend is right or not, but my gut tells me he may be both. Wanting out and actually getting out are two very different things, and the thought that could have provoked such a comment could have changed since it was made.
But I don't believe Gillispie will give up Kentucky after one year. If he does, he obviously isn't the man we though he was. By his actions, if it comes to that, he will either stake, or abandon, his claim to history.
OSU is a fine school, but their destiny insofar as a basketball power is concerned lies far behind Kentucky's no matter what happens with Gillispie. Any honest OSU fan would admit that, and the dishonest ones don't matter.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
By the way, you can email me anytime you want. There is a link on the left sidebar. All you have to do is click it. I will respond.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
E-Mail Sent
Some in the Big 12 (coaching circles) heard or think otherwise.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 4, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There ...
I know that some may find it uncomfortable dealing with the possibility of losing a coach we have come to admire after only one year. I myself am not happy at the prospect.
But hiding from the issue is not the answer, just as hiding from the rumor and innuendo that have existed around the program since Gillispie came to Kentucky is is not the answer. Dealing with such unpleasantness honestly and openly is, I believe, the best solution. This blog has always been willing to take on the intelligent, intellectually honest discussion of our favorite team. We don't hide from things that we don't like, and we celebrate the things that make us happy.
Believe it or not, it is really, honestly possible that OSU will try to lure Gillispie to Stillwater, and it is really, honestly possible they will succeed. I believe it is more likely that they will fail, but that doesn't predispose me to dismiss the possibility, or hide from why it exists.
So everyone try to relax and enjoy the ride. When Smith left, we all said that the program is bigger than the coach. No matter what happens with this or any other opportunity that may arise, that has not changed, and will not change. We are cursed, in the Chinese sense, by living in interesting times. So why fight it? Try to learn to embrace it -- it will broaden your perspective, and toughen your spirit.
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 3, 2008 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Still can't see it.......
Other than Huggins to WVU has this happened in the last few years - from one of the 'premier' jobs in college basketball?
by gacatfan on Apr 3, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was not clear
by gacatfan on Apr 4, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gillispie and Oklahoma St.
I have several thoughts on Gillispie and the potential of him leaving for Stillwater.
First though, let me state that I have been most impressed with Gillispie on several fronts:
I am impressed with the growth displayed by the team under his leadership. I am impressed with how Coach seems to genuinely care for his players. I am impressed with how the players seem to genuinely care for Coach. I am impressed with how hard Gillispie's players compete. I am impressed at how the team came together at the height of despair.
All of the above accomplishments are the residual effects of great leadership, and great coaching. The list of coaches who could have pulled this team out of its death spiral is a very short one indeed.
Obviously, I don't want to lose this guy.
But...
it is certainly not unreasonable to think that Gillispie may be interested in the Oklahoma St. opening, but in order for him to feel that way, he would have to be extremely unhappy at UK.
His career arc suggests he knows a step up when he meets one. He is ambitious to the highest degree, and he's fully aware that Stillwater is a long way from Rupp Arena. He has stated over and over that he loves the fact that UK fans expect greatness every year. He loves that about us "overzealous, fanatical, basketball crazy nut jobs" because he is one of us. I think he's right at home in that respect, and he knows it.
There are negatives connected to our inherent fanaticism though. One being that the Head Coach lives in a fishbowl. I don't think Gillispie enjoys that aspect of the job, but I do think he now accepts something that he knows he can't change. Is this fact "cramping his style"? I have no idea, but Gillispie using the "fishbowl" excuse for taking a huge, monstrous step backward is very hard for me to believe.
I listened to many of the Gillispie call-in shows. From November to March. I didn't catch every one of them, but I heard a high percentage of the shows. One thing I thought was very perceptable is the fact that he became much more relaxed and open to answering questions as the year progressed. Same story for the pre-game interview with Tom Leach. He was almost combative early in the year, while later in the year he was much more relaxed and less on edge.
Now, this chameleon-like evolution of Gillispie can be attributed to two factors, in my opinion: 1. The team began to win. 2. Gillispie became more comfortable with the job, and the unusual demands associated with the position.
I think when Gillispie took the job he thought he knew what he was getting into. But like Eddie Sutton said, "You think you know, but you don't."
"Bluegrass Culture Shock" is the syndrome, and it has effected some great coaches over the years, from Sutton, to Pitino, and finally, Gillispie. Sutton felt the overbearing pressure and made some huge mistakes, Pitino embraced it, Gillispie I THINK, has also embraced it. Some people live for the pressure, some succumb to it. Gillispie is much too driven to succumb. That would be a weak move in his mind.
Think about it, he went from an afterthought at A&M, to being the most scrutinized individual on the planet, other than the President of the United States. I don't care how much money one makes, that has to be a difficult adjustment. But, I think Gillispie has made the appropriate alterations, and seems to be thriving.
The off-the-court demands were also a shock to Gillispie. I don't think he was too crazy about "talking up the program" to the various groups scattered throughout the state. Pressing flesh, while saddled with a fairly weak roster, was a big waste of time in Gillispie's mind. Frankly, I side with Clyde on this one. It's because of his hard work, and powers of persuasion that Gillispie landed Patterson, and laid the groundwork for the current recruiting class. Of course, he did all this when some folks wanted him talking to the Rotary Club of Inez (No offense Inez). I think he made the right decision.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I don't think money can sway Gillispie away. He'll soon have more money than he could spend in 2 lifetimes. If Pickens comes up with multiple millions and pays the next OSU coach, then that coach works for Pickens(at least in Pickens' eyes). I just don't see Gillispie justifying why he prefers man-to-man defense to ole TBoone, or expaining away that botched in-bounds play. I CAN hear Clyde say, "stick it up your arse you son-of-a-Sooner".
I think Gillispie seems very happy, and focused on the future at Kentucky. I would be shocked if he left for the OSU job. But, if he does, life will go on. Barnhart will find a suitable replacement, and UK will continue the climb back up the ladder to its rightful place among the college basketball elite.
Also, I can't be expected to believe what some basketball official at school X says to somebody over the phone, in an email, or at a ballgame, when these guys look dead straight into a TV camera and lie as effortlessly as you and I change our socks.
I have stayed away from all of the rumor talk over the last several months. I haven't commented about anything remotely related to the rumors, but I do have one thought on the subject; the rumors about Gillispie were borne out of his previous alcohol arrests, I believe. If he had been arrested for cow-tipping 10 years ago in some pasture in west Texas, I am sure somebodies, brothers, neighbors, cousins, sister would have spyed Clyde "drunk-tipping" the Angus in rural Woodford County.
Most of the garbage is so ridiculous that it is beyond comprehension.
...and that's all I got to say about that.
by Ken Howlett on Apr 4, 2008 2:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Last UK Coach To Leave For A Better Job
Adolph Rupp was retired at 70.
Joe Hall chose to retire.
Eddie Sutton was forced out due to NCAA sanctions. He wound up at Okla St.
Rick Pitino went to Celtics for a new challenge.
Tubby Smith left for a different job but not a better one than UK.
I think Gillispie stays at UK despite $$$ to be offered.
We'll C.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 4, 2008 6:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
by tenken on Apr 4, 2008 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pot meet Kettle...
Says the fan of a school who's fanbase is not satisfied with one national championship, 20 wins every season, more SEC championship wins than losses, etc.
Now, I'm firmly in the camp that it was time for a change last year... but for a Kentucky fan to call any other fanbase "unreasonable" is admitedly laughable.
by chirop1 on Apr 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
excuse me
OSU-unreasonable
UK-unreasonable
which school would you rather be at? Lets see here.............UK. If he would leave because he is unhappy with our expectations why would he go to another unreasonable school that is not half the program we are.
P.S. Please refrain in future from taking such hostile attitudes to my post.
by tenken on Apr 4, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get your panties in a wad son
by chirop1 on Apr 4, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tenken...
by wldcatsfreak on Apr 4, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever
by tenken on Apr 4, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the contract
Of course, I'm not a basketball coach, I'm an engineer. From my perspective I see that amount of capital as:
- Freedom to do whatever I want the rest of my life
- Currency I could use to solve some of the world's problems
The only way I see him leaving is if the Lexington morality police cause him difficulties in being able to do what he loves - coach basketball - due to his private lifestyle choices off of the court.
On the other hand, if you look at people with millions of dollars, they just behave differently than the non-wealthy population. And it seems like the more money they have, the more divergent they become from what you might expect. So you never know what will happen.
by EEWildcat on Apr 4, 2008 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Impressed By Gallagher Iba Arena
Fans are loud and really into basketball. Loved their cheer when opponent fouls out.
As he/she walks back to bench, they cheer "Left! Right! (...) Left! Right! Sit Down!!!"
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 4, 2008 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Golf/Wrestling School???
by chirop1 on Apr 5, 2008 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps...
Wrestling (impressive):
http://www.ncaa.com/history/default.aspx?id=88088
Golf:
by bluenva on Apr 5, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
has anyone seen this?
by kykat51 on Apr 5, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Self, Pickens, and OSU
I read several aticles from the Tulsa World regarding Sutton and the coaching search. They (OSU fans and writers) are certainly in a tizzy over this situation.
Th comments about Pickens from the readership are interesting. Many feel,(rightly or wrongly I don't know), that Pickens is pulling the strings behind the scenes, and they're not too happy about it.
Self basically said his attorney/agent is full of crap, but of course that is what he would say considering his team is about to take the court in the Final Four.
It is ironic that KU may have to deal with losing two very good coaches, inside 5 years, to the coaches alma mater. Poor, poor rock chalkers.
by Ken Howlett on Apr 5, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA!
On the other hand maybe Pearl is driven by the almighty dollar.
Pearl did however just give his team a pretty good "plug" on CBS -- "You know Greg, if Memphis wins the title, UT will have been the only team to have beaten them the last three years"....I probably didn't get that verbatim, but you get the idea...Icky!
by BigSkyCat on Apr 5, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pearl
Pearl would be nuts to take that job. But I sure hope he does.
He's in a very enviable situation in Knoxville. The people adore the guy. He does whatever he pleases with no repercussions--something UT and it's fan base are "famous" for. As long as he continues to win he can pursue his hedonsitic lifestyle with no fear of reprisals from the administration.
I'll be happy to drive him to Stillwater though...as long as he keeps his shirt on.
by Ken Howlett on Apr 5, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to disappoint,
As with any coach, this isn't necessarily gospel, but it'd be on the order of a Saban if he were to leave to OSU. It'd be even more bizarre after removing himself from consideration at Indiana.
Pearl's not polished like Pitino, but he's very honest. He's said many thing publicly that few coaches would say, and that's the real reason he has so much leeway in K'ville. The winning gives popularity, but being honest gives trust and the ability to overlook faults.
by Hooper on Apr 5, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pearl
I, myself, would love to see him go to OSU.
by kykat51 on Apr 5, 2008 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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