JUCO's at Kentucky: A recipe for success?

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 15, 2008 9:40 AM EDT in Basketball Comment 37 comments

As we are all aware, Kentucky has recently signed Kevin Galloway from the junior college ranks, and is actively recruiting his teammate, Juan Pattillo. Apparently, Galloway was with Pattillo on a visit to campus last weekend, along with several other Kentucky recruits. Pattillo is an über-athletic, 6'7"/205# wing, reportedly with a 40" vertical, good rebounding and scoring skills. Not so much a pure wing as a 3/4 hybrid, Pattillo reportedly has a decent face-up game and shot around 35% from 3-point land in the JUCO ranks.

Kentucky has historically had little use for JUCO's, but both of Kentucky's last two coaches had a couple of junior college players during their tenure. Here is a run down of them, including my assessment of their level of success at Kentucky (hat tip: Jon Scott's UK statistics website):

Coach	Name	Height	Pos.	School	Notes	Success level at Kentucky
Pitino	Rodney Dent	6'11"	C	Odessa (TX) Junior College	Avg. 6pts/5reb first year, and 10pts/5 2nd year until going down with severe knee injury. Drafted 31st by Orlando Magic in 2nd round, 1994.	High until injury
Pitino	Dale Brown	6'3"	G	Gulf Coast Community College	Avg. 7pts/2reb first year, and 9pts/3reb 2nd year. Played in 1992 Duke game and 1993 final four vs. Michigan.	High
Smith	Antwain Barbour	6'5"	G-F	Wabash Valley Community College	Avg. 3pts/2reb first year, and 5pts, 2.5reb 2nd year. Smith's best JUCO	Medium - somewhat disappointing
Smith	Rekalin Sims	6'8"'	F	Salt Lake Community College	Avg. 4pts/3reb first year. Injured most of first year, left after that.	Low - very disapppointing

Rodney Dent's story was a very sad one, as he was headed toward a very impressive season and quite possibly a first-round draft pick when he suffered a catastrophic injury to his knee against Vanderbilt. Despite this, he was eventually drafted into the NBA in the second round, the only Kentucky JUCO in recent years to actually get drafted in either round. We all remember Dale Brown as a very important role player in some of Kentucky's most legendary seasons of the Rick Pitino era, and the heart he showed against Michigan in the Final Four.

Smith had some success with Barbour, who came with much fanfare as the JUCO player of the year. However, Barbour adapted very slowly to the D-1 level, and despite his excellent athleticism, contributed relatively little until the second half of his senior season. Starting from the Ole Miss game, he averaged almost 7 points and almost 3 rebounds, finally realizing some of the potential that Smith saw in him. Smith's second JUCO was a failure, though. Despite a hot start from the perimeter early, Rekalin Sims simply did not develop into a solid D-1 player. He developed a nagging back injury, and was too slow and hampered by the injury to ever reach his potential. In addition, Smith and Sims were constantly at odds, and Sims transfered the next year.

So what conclusions can we draw from all this about our nascent crop of junior college players? None, really, except that JUCO's are pretty much like other new players -- success is had at varying levels. We normally would not expect a JUCO to come in and lead the team in scoring or rebounding, but they have often become very valuable role players and add to the team's depth. After they become used to the much higher speed and strength of the Division I game, I would expect valuable contributions from our JUCO's, be it only Galloway, both Galloway and Pattillo, or some other combination.

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Gillispie and JUCO's

Would it be possible to get a chart of BCG JUCO players and there success. I remember a few guys he has had success with and i know he has used a lot in the past.

travis york

by travyork on Apr 15, 2008 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JUCO's

Conclusion: Pitino had a better eye for talent than Tubby

by deWildcats on Apr 15, 2008 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh-oh here we go again : )

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Apr 15, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah!

...the over/under on the number of comments on this post went from 40 to 120. :)

by bluenva on Apr 15, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL! Very perceptive!

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just wait until 40year sees it!

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Apr 15, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why was that needed?

Neither coach here. There is no competition going on between them for the job again or even some UK Basketball Museum Exhibit.

I understand if was truly meant as objective observation but we all know it is still too hot and hurtful now to not explain yourself much better if there is a point. Yes it may appear as such and is very obvious that 2 jucos under RP did well and 2 under OTS not as good. In any scientific study based on stats this is just not enough to make a complete judgement.

Tubby had better taste in uniforms than Pitino and Rupp better than Tubby. Does not amount to much as long as our current coach, BCG, does not pick crap for next year. Uniforms or Jucos.

This is a cool stat and conversation jump point and it would suck to have to wade through 120 posts of another Tub-O-War this afternoon to read real constructive comments.

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

missed one

Though I don't blame you. The Nate Knight era only lasted half a season and can only be considered a low success.

Looking for a rock to wind a piece of string around.

by JLeverenz on Apr 15, 2008 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Knight ...

transferred from Utah Valley State. That is not a junior college.

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 15, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh

You know though, I remember him being referred to as a JUCO guy by various and sundry media during his time at UK.

Looking for a rock to wind a piece of string around.

by JLeverenz on Apr 15, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even remember that guy...

Wow...

by chirop1 on Apr 15, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a very good reason why :)

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Barbour

Barbour's lack of success at UK was always puzzling to me. I saw him play extensively his senior year at E-Town, and he was simply outstanding. As Tru notes, he possesses tremendous athletic ability.

My only real thought on his lack of performance while wearing the blue and white is the hand injury that sidelined him his first year. He seemed to not regain his conficence after his return. We saw flashes, but nothing sustained.

He has done incredibly well in a multitude of professional leagues, both in the US and Europe.

Predicting success for a Juco is a tenuous exercise at best. As evidenced by Tru's graph.

Fingers amd toes firmly crossed.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Barbour

Barbour's best stretch of games his senior year came when he was starting in the place of an injured Gerald Fitch. As soon as Fitch was healthy and back as a starter and Barbour was coming off the bench he went back to being a so-so player. Given that, I always wondered why Tubby never seemed to make an effort to juggle the lineup so that Barbour could start since it seemed to have such a noticable affect on his play.

Looking for a rock to wind a piece of string around.

by JLeverenz on Apr 15, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting point

Fitch missed 3 games, and played only 1 minute in another. Barbour provided a huge game against 'Bama, scoring 23 points on 10 of 13 shooting. Versus UT, who Fitch only played 1 minute against Barbour scored 16 points on 6 of 9 shooting. He was 5 for 8 from the 3pt line in those two games.

For the rest of the season Barbour played increased minutes, but never performed to that level again. Curious. This makes me think he had a tenuous hold on his confidence.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree......

I think Barbour's injury had quite a bit to do with both his comfort level and confidence when he came back. He missed quite a bit of time and I think that really hurt him. He was obviously a player that needed to get into the flow of the game (hence the success when he got quality minutes) and I think missing the time that he did really didn't do well for him overall.

Had that injury not happened I think we would be talking about Barbour in a much different light.

C....A....T....S CATS CATS CATS

by MartinGolf9 on Apr 15, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's Heshimu Evans???

Junior Year 8.9 pts and 5.4 rbds
Senior Year 11.8 pts and 5.1 rbds

No too shabby, and was a fan favorite, big off the bench in '98.

-K

by keidahg on Apr 15, 2008 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He transferred from Manhatten.

He was a huge contributor though.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

JUCOs in the SEC

JUCO transfers have had recent success in the SEC. Sonny Weems averaged 17 ppg for Arkansas in SEC play (and torched UK with 26). Also LSU's Marcus Thorton averaged 21.6 pts per SEC game for a terrible LSU team. Thorton's point total was best in conference.

I guess we have to trust Gillispie to distinguish the Simses from the Thortons.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Apr 15, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JUCO

It depends on who is recruiting them I think and if they fit in and can play now.....I think that the current crop we are recruiting...Harrellson, Galloway and Patillo will be better than what we have had in the past...specifically Sims. Barbour was a great talent but something happened to him....UK would sign him again if he was available....Harrellson will have 3 years and probably should not be considered really a JUCO because of his personal circumstances.....I think UK should have recruited more of them..especially when they knew that they would have a lean year here and there....

by Chuck Alexinis on Apr 15, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dent was awesome

Rodney Dent was awesome. If he hadn't been injured, he would have been remembered as one of our better big men, IMHO. He was just starting to hit his stride, and I remember him being MONEY from the field. If you could get him the ball in the paint - it was pretty much going in.

Also, I was a student when Rodney Dent was there, and he's responsible for one of my favorite memories as a UK student. It was at the end of the year, that time when you still have a bunch of money on your meal ticket card and have to spend it or it goes away. So I walk into the convenience store (I think in Blazer Hall?) and there is Rodney Dent, in the check out line. First of all, he is just amazingly tall - I'd never been that close to anyone so tall. Secondly, he was one of my favorite UK players. Third, he had at his feet, and was getting ready to buy, the biggest hoard of junk food I've ever seen. There was a waist high stack of those 24-pack soda platters, topped by bags and bags of potato chips, there were tons of snack cakes and candy piled around it. I don't know how he was going to get out of the store with it all.

I thought to myself... How can this rail-thin guy eat this stuff?? Man, I've got to quit eating right.

by EEWildcat on Apr 15, 2008 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Can anyone name...

any impact JUCO players that went on to star at any of the "elite" college basketball programs.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 15, 2008 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i think that

steve francis did and i would consider him pretty good.

by i got the blues on Apr 15, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two-Year Players Don't Build a Program

The significant statistic is that in the last 18 years, we have brought in only 4 jucos. If jucos were a path to success, both Pitino and Smith would have recruited more.

It seems to me that it takes most players -- whether they are freshmen, transfers or jucos -- a year and a half to adjust to a new coaching staff, a new defensive scheme, a new offensive system, a new school, a new city, a higher level of competition -- and to become consistently productive and dependable players.

It's a rare juco who is an impact player, an immediate 30 minutes a game contributor, in a major conference. The odds are that a juco brought in now may produce consistent results sometime in the 2009-2010 season. Maybe one of these guys could help us make a run in the SEC and the NCAA late next year or the year after.

We have 5 juniors now. Galloway will be a sixth; bringing in another juco will mean we will have 7. If Patterson goes to the NBA, we will have eight. So two years from now we have to start all over in terms of building a team.

When a coaching staff goes after jucos, it may mean they are shoring up a position (as Pitino did with Dent and Brown) or it is in a state of panic. I hope we're not in the latter mode.

By they way, is there a possibility that Sutton or McCoy could decide that a year in a Prep School would be good for them?

by Fortunatus on Apr 15, 2008 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Practice man we talking bout a practice

Lets not forget that these Jucos whether immediate contributors on the court or not will be better competition in practice for our main guys than the current group of walk ons has been. Whether they play 30 minutes a night or not they will help G build a better team.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 16, 2008 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Off Subject

I know that this is off subject, but UkWildCatFanatic posted a link on the thread with all the news stories of the 10 worst free throw shots (something like that). Chuck Hayes is the number one and his shots are CRAZY. It seriously looks like he has never shot a free throw before in his life! Anyway, UkWildCatFanatic and I were "talking" about it yesterday and I wondered if maybe no one had seen it since the thread and post are pretty far down the page at this point. I though it was worth mentioning.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 16, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I noticed it ...

Chuck has always had a weird hitch in his stroke. I guess that it has gotten worse in the Association.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Watched it earlier this morning

I sure don't remember Chuck shooting like that. I'd love to see a link to a bit of game film that shows him shooting at UK. I was appalled at the form he showed.

by chirop1 on Apr 16, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Barbour, Knight, Sims

Barbour started as a junior (2003 season) until he broke his arm in Hawaii. He was never JuCo POY but rather MVP of the NJCAA tournament as a JuCo frosh. He was 3rd team JuCo A-A as a soph.

Sims was 1st team JuCo A-A and POY (by some, not all). His 2nd choice was Texas A&M and Gillsipie.

Nate Knight was another JuCo at UK (briefly in 2000 season) but he transferred to BYU to be closer to his family and girlfriend.

Adolph Rupp signed a few JuCo players in the 1950's and 1960's. Bob Burrow was most successful of them. Adrian Smith was another good one.

Nathaniel Buis 6-1 F Lindsey-Wilson Junior College
Roger Layne 6-7 C Magnolia A&M Junior College
Bob Burrow 6-7 C Tyler (TX) Junior College
Adrian Smith 6-0 G Northeast Mississippi Junior College
Bennie Coffman 6-3 G Lindsey-Wilson Junior College
Sid Cohen 6-1 G Kilgore (TX) Junior College
Vincent Del Negro 6-5 C/F Northeast Mississippi Junior College
Doug Pendygraft 6-2 G Lindsey Wilson Junior College
Frank Tully 6-3 F Westminster Military Academy

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 16, 2008 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Knight ...

was not a JUCO. See comments above.

Great info on Rupp's JUCO's though.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2008 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nate Knight Was A JuCo Transfer

Utah Valley College was 2-Year JuCo in 1999.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 16, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

forty,

how about BCG's JUCO record, anything??????

by BigSkyCat on Apr 16, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gillispie Lived And Died With JuCo Recruits

He had great success with JC transfers at UTEP and good success with several JuCo players at TAMU.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 16, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vincent Del Negro 6-5 C/F

I'm admittedly under-educated in much of the finer details of Kentucky basketball (or sports in general) history pre-late 1980's. I do however, remember Vinny Del Negro playing for the Spurs and a few other NBA teams. Any relation to this Rupp JUCO? There can't be too many Vinny Del Negro's running around can there?

by chirop1 on Apr 17, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs