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Kentucky at South Carolina -- Raising the Titanic

I woke up this morning with the strangest feeling of normalcy.  As of right now, I am of the opinion that Kentucky has played itself into an at-large berth in the NCAA tournament, despite the fact that the possibility of that seemed as remote as the planet Pluto only six weeks ago.  Yet despite all the, "No way Kentucky gets in" comments from Jay Bilas and others, I think you will find that most people are deserting that position like it was the Titanic.  Speaking of the Titanic, I recently came across an article that compared the possibility of Kentucky making the NCAA tournament field to the Titanic coming to the surface.  Interesting metaphor.

South Carolina clearly did not bring their best last night.  Perhaps it was the emotion of senior night and Dave Odom's last game, or perhaps they were just weary of a long season with little to look forward to except major changes.  Sometimes, inevitability is a tremendous weight, and for whatever reason, South Carolina simply failed to fire last night.  I never got the feeling that Kentucky was in serious danger of losing that game, even when the Gamecocks made a run and got it down to five in the second half.

Of course, a lot of that was due to Kentucky doing what it does -- smothering half-court defense and excellent shooting.  Joe Crawford finally had a night I had been expecting from him all year, and he exploded for 35 points, about 10 of them in an unconscious stretch in the second half that, but for a missed 30 footer at the end, was almost as amazing as Tayshaun Prince's five threes against North Carolina in Rupp Arena some years back.  I don't think Gillispie was very happy with that last shot, but after the 28 footer that he swished the possession before, who can really blame joe for thinking he was momentarily possessed by the Wildcat spirit that powered Tayshaun's amazing game?

As well as Joe played, I thought Ramon Harris deserved the game ball.  He simply made Devan Downey disappear, and did so despite a quickness advantage by Downey that is almost too great to be measured.  Harris was simply relentless guarding Downey, and the amazing point guard got very little done.  Then there was Ramel Bradley, who quietly managed to score 20 points and played another fine basketball game.  Even Michael Porter contributed with solid play.  Not only that, Porter apparently played several minutes with a separated shoulder that he simply didn't tell the coaching staff about until after the game. 

It's stories like this that are causing this particular UK team to become perhaps them most loved group since the Unforgettables.  I know this gets bandied about a lot, but the Cats have had nothing in recent history that could even remotely be compared to that legendary team, and with the hole these guys started out in and the injuries they've suffered, there is no other team in Kentucky history that more resembles that legendary group.  Kentucky's grit has fueled the imagination of fans around the Commonwealth, and that feels really good after we were all gnashing our teeth in December.

A quick perusal of the game statistics shows that Kentucky had a remarkable 65% eFG% and held USC to only 44.1% eFG.  Given that, you would think the Cats blew the Gamecocks out of the water, but Kentucky turned the ball over, as it usually does, and gave the Gamecocks an astonishing 21 more attempts at the basket.  Think about that -- you are playing a guy one on one to 10 by ones and you give him 5 extra shots -- how many of those do you think you'd win?  That just further illustrates the remarkable defense Kentucky played last night.

Kentucky did have an edge on the glass, although the Gamecocks came away with 12 offensive rebounds, doubling up the Wildcats.  Derrick Jasper continues his outstanding rebounding with seven, and three blocks to go along with them.  Although he only scored a couple of points, Jasper continues to make himself felt in every game.  Perry Stevenson claimed six rebounds and two blocks, and only two points.  We see here that third scoring options are very hard to come by with this UK team, and despite their great games against Tennessee, Jasper and Stevenson cannot be relied on to do it every night.  Then again, when you have two guards scoring 55 of your team's 71 points (77% of the total points) and shooting 53%, you don't need that much out of everyone else.

Great win by the Wildcats.  Next up, the Florida Gators, owner of a 7-game winning streak against the Cats.  While I believe UK is definitely in the tourney now, losing to the Gators could change that calculation for the worse.  But for now, let's celebrate this big win, and an 11-4 record.

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Missed You Guys!
Sure was a lonely game day yesterday - I am too embarrassed to admit how many times I checked the site ;)  On to Sunday and our date with the Gators.  I am really excited about that one!  I have heard a LOT of UF trash talking (not really sure why, considering...) but I think Rupp, senior night, and last regular season game at home for Ramel and Joe sounds like a good combination to end a 7-game series win by UF.  GO CATS!!!!!

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 6, 2008 8:56 AM EST   0 recs

have I got this right?
Sunday is a must win for the Cats to hold on to second place in the SEC-E and the bye, unless Vandy loses their last game, which is to Alabama. (I think) and not likely.

by cat woman on Mar 6, 2008 9:04 AM EST   0 recs

Gillispie said
that a win on Sunday could result in UK getting a share of the SEC title:  
"Gillispie said it should be hard for anyone to ignore what the Wildcats have done in the SEC. If other games break right for Kentucky, Gillispie points out a win Sunday at home over Florida could give his team a share of the SEC title."

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 6, 2008 9:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

IF...
"other games break right for Kentucky."  Ahh - "if"

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 6, 2008 9:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

UT has first locked up tight now.
UK gets SEC East second with a win -OR- with a Vandy loss.  They share second if both UK loses and Vandy wins.  I would imagine that Vandy would win any tiebreak if that occurred.

I think the UK game will be a good game.  Both teams will be very highly motivated to win.

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 10:35 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Actually...
I'd have to look at who they lost to if they tied.  I believe that the tie-breaker goes to the team with the best record against the SEC East.  If we end up in that scenario, our 5 losses would include 4 losses to the SEC East (UT, Vandy, 2xFlorida).  I'm not sure who Vandy lost to mainly, but I'm thinking there were a couple of SEC West foes sprinkled in there.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 10:48 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yep...
Looks like the UF game is the "decider".  

UK is 6-3 vs. East Div., Vandy is 7-3 (per secsports.com)

Tiebreakers according to secsports.com:

1. head-to-head; 2. division record (10 games); 3. record vs. No. 1 team in division proceeding through the No. 6 team if necessary; 4. non-division record (6 games); 5. record vs. No. 1 team in the opposite division proceeding through the No. 6 team if necessary; 6. coin flip by the Commissioner.

by bluenva on Mar 6, 2008 11:01 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I have
a total man crush on Joe Crawford today.

Florida will be a tough game, but I feel pretty good about it. I am amazed with Ramon's play of late, and I really think sticking him on Calethes would be a great idea.

by blbskue on Mar 6, 2008 9:19 AM EST   0 recs

Missed the game last night
My high school alma mater's boys team was playing in the 5th region tourney for the first time in a decade, so my dad and I went down to Hart County to watch them play.  There were a few people around us with fancy cell phones keeping us informed of the score though.  

I love this team deeply and truly.  They just keep scrapping and playing hard.  I think anyone who said that Tubby was "ran off" by the fans because of wins and losses or playing style needs to take a hard look at the reaction this team is getting.  This team has a lot of losses, plays a slow-down game... but we LOVE them!  All Kentucky fans have ever wanted was effort and a clear desire from the players to be wearing the blue and white.  This team shows that like no other team in the last several years.  Its all we've been asking for.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 10:51 AM EST   0 recs

5th Region KY HS
Hey Chirop1 -- thanks for a trip down memory lane.  I've been out of state over 15 years now, but I grew up watching 5th Region hoops (Green Co).  Where are you from?

AND, like Tru, I'm a Hilltopper, too!

Go Cats!

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 3:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

5th Region
I'm from the Elizabethtown area.  I went to high school at Central Hardin.  The school has been in existence since '91 and they were district runner-up in 96 and 97 to make their only previous region trips.  This year was their first ever 17th district title.  It sounds really bad; but when you share a district with North Hardin, Elizabethtown, Meade County (until a few years ago), and now John Hardin it is tough to get out of the district.  Heck, last year in girl's basketball Etown, North, and Central were all ranked in the top 10 in the state going into the district tourney.  Its a shame when one of the top teams in the state is guaranteed to be going home before the region tourney even starts.

Anyways, this was the first region tourney game I'd been to in years.  It was something to see the banner hanging there for Tick Rogers Mr. Basketball '92.  Central beat Nelson Co last night to get their first ever region win.  They'll play Adair county on Monday.  (The game is at 5:30 though... who the hell plans on putting high school games at 5:30???)  Green meets Elizabethtown tonight.  From what I understand, I think Adair is supposed to be the favorite to head to the Sweet 16.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 3:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hey!
All right!

There's more of us Hilltoper UK fans than people think, eh?

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2008 3:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hilltopper Cat Fans
In Kentucky, loving the Cats comes long before attending college, or even thinking about attending college.  And it lasts long after.

I went to graduate school at an unmentionable (shall we say diabolical) elite hoops university where I made many new friends who quickly became nuts about college hoops, and who now have moved on to other places and show no interest whatsoever in college hoops.  

(I now live in a place with no basketball culture, and I have three friends who have degrees from Vanderbilt, none of whom cared to watch the UT-Vandy game last week.)  

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 3:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

My wife is a Hilltopper...
She got me a t-shirt that says "Hilltopper Fan... By Marriage."  As a Murray State alum, it bothers me to no end... but I wear it when we make the trek south to the Beeg.

One thing I will say, WKU has an amazing alumni system here in the central part of the state.  Far larger than either of the "Big Two" state schools.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 3:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

2005 Team
I thought 2005 squad (28-6, Elite 8, #2 seed) gave a pretty strong effort.

The 2006 and 2007 teams less so.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 8, 2008 9:08 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

One other comment...
Is there any coach out there in the SEC (or possibly even the country... but that's a stretch) that is more deserving of Coach of the Year than Gillispie?  UT is having a great year, but they were expected to.  Florida has been stumbling down the stretch.  I'd say that in my opinion, it would have to come down to Billy Clyde or Stansbury over at Miss St.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 10:53 AM EST   0 recs

Finally
chirop.......finally someone states what I have been feeling.  BCG has done the best coaching job in the SEC.  I hope it doesn't go to the coach that has the most talent(Pearl).  

On the "whether we get in our not"  I truly hope come next Sunday the 16th.....we can say without one doubt that we are in because we have won the SEC championship.  

by tenken on Mar 6, 2008 11:00 AM EST   0 recs

BCG was interviewed on ESPN radio
last night and pointed out that Kentucky with 11 wins(and possibly 12) would have as good a conference record as Vandy and possibly as many as West winner Ms. State. How could the committee invite those schools and ignore the Cats.
Stinky Blue

by Stinky Blue on Mar 6, 2008 11:07 AM EST   0 recs

I agree with that, but...
I doubt there has been a team with 11 wins start the season 7-9. The closest thing would probably be starting 4-5 in 2000. We ended up as a 9 seed that year. I think we're barely in as of today, but if we lose to FL, then we definitely need to win a couple in the SEC tournament to feel secure on selection Sunday. Just keep winning. :)

by cthom on Mar 6, 2008 11:27 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Pluto is no longer a planet.
I'm sorry; it's hard for me to accept too.

by Kilgore Trout on Mar 6, 2008 11:08 AM EST   0 recs

Pluto
It's now a "dwarf planet," so technically, it's still a planet (along with Ceres and Eris, two overgrown rocks that got promoted).  The science/language police hereby grant Tru permission to use the more generic "planet."
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 6, 2008 1:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Terrific Game
Jasper's influence goes beyond just his stats.  It wasn't long after he picked up his 4th foul and had to go to the bench that UK had their only real scoring drought of the night, and it wasn't long after he came back into the game that it ended.  

I don't remember him having any direct influence immediately after coming back into the game, but he does so many of those "things that don't show up in the box score" that indirectly helps the offense that it's noticeable when he is not on the court.

And what kind of guts and toughness does Michael Porter have?  It must be that football mentality leftover from high school.  I hope he gets better soon, because he's played some quality minutes these last 2 games.  What's a separated shoulder like?  Is it something that can get popped back into place and used again quickly?

Looking for a rock to wind a piece of string around.

by JLeverenz on Mar 6, 2008 11:20 AM EST   0 recs

I separated a shoulder once while rock climbing.
While I'm nowhere near the athlete he is, I do remember the experience well.  I was 18 at the time, so my healing rate was probably comparable.

It popped right back in place as soon as I was able to get the pressure off of it.  (That's not always how it works, but getting the shoulder back in usually isn't too hard.)  I would imagine that his shoulder went right back into place within a few seconds of the separation, which would suggest that the separation wasn't too bad.  It's enough of a shock that you wouldn't want to use it while it's still separated - not too painful, really, but disconcerting.

For me, the shoulder was rather sore for a few days afterward; I didn't put much strain on it, but kept it flexible for the next few days.  I'd say after about 3 or 4 days it was fine again.  So long as nothing was torn, he should be back to full form by Florida.

The other question is whether he's had a history of shoulder separations.  Each time a shoulder separates, it's a little easier for it to occur again.  As well-conditioned as most athletes are now, it shouldn't be a problem.  But that's really the only concern I would have (and I don't even think that's a concern).

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 11:32 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Not separation
You're thinking of a dislocation.  That's what Jarred Carter had.  Easy injuries to confuse because its all in the same region.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ah, thanks.
I don't fully see the difference, but I'll trust your expertise.

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 11:52 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Dislocation
A dislocated shoulder happens when the arm bone slips out of socket with the shoulder.  The separation is what I talk about below.

A dislocation is what allowed Mel Gibson to get out of that straight jacket in Lethal Weapon 2.  Clearly a useful ability to have.

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 1:35 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Also
It has allowed Carter to slip out of his destiny to be a star at UK.

SUCKS. I really liked watching him in High School. I really thought he would be a good contributor by now.

by wilson452 on Mar 6, 2008 2:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

following up
on last night's conversation when I told you I hoped your team would lose...thanks for responding again, I saw your final comment on the original thread.

I think a lot of Ky basketball fans are overall pretty proud of the success of other SEC teams,
(except of course when they actually beat the Cats). If Kentucky can't make a Final Four, then I always hope another SEC team does, because it speaks well for our conference.

Although I live in Gator country, I am not as much of a Gator fan as I used to be. Originally they were my second-favorite team, because I thought of BD as sort of an adopted Ky. son. But sometimes individual personalities can turn you off and Noah certainly ruined my feelings about Gators. Also, I have always been pretty positive about UT, although I will admit that your current coach's style can be a little over the top and off-putting. And Stallings comes across as pretty  arrogant, too.

But overall, I don't really have a lot of issues with other SEC teams...I have issues with DOOK and their obnoxious student body and with Traitor Rick, because he betrayed us and women never forgive basketball infidelity.

by cat woman on Mar 6, 2008 6:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

sweet
"...he betrayed us and women never forgive basketball infidelity."

Amen, sister
: )

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2008 9:02 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

then you will appreciate
the fact that I often compare Pitino's decision to go to Louisville as being like having a boyfriend who goes and sleeps with your sister!
:)

by cat woman on Mar 6, 2008 10:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Most welcome.
It'd be a real jerkish thing for me to come to a UK fan site - particularly such a civil UK fan site - and stir up UT muck.  I laughed at the "both lose" comment because I say that a lot myself.  (The Raiders playing the Cowboys is one such time.)  But feel free to express a desire to see UT lose - I certainly don't expect everybody at a Kentucky fan site to want UT to win all the time.

/group hug

For the most part, it seems that basketball fandom is a lot more courteous in the SEC than football fandom.  I think a lot of people here would prefer to see UK win than a non-SEC team (particularly those to the east of Tennessee...)  I can, however, see how Pearl can seem over-the-top to those outside of Knoxville.  Around here, he's absolutely beloved because he energizes the fans and he puts a dazzling team on the floor.  When he comes down from his coaching high he's really a very personable and considerate man, but that's not often seen outside our local broadcasts.

That last line is gold, though.  Pure gold.  :)

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 10:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

in support of Pearl
I presume that at least 50% of the persona he presents to the media is all about marketing. And when you consider that he came into the SEC, where UK and UF stand like cornerstones defining college basketball, he has little choice but to find a whole new face and image to put on UT basketball in order to carve out his space.

I have spent some time around Bobby Knight and know that one-on-one he is a gentleman and a very kind hearted person. I have assumed that the "used car salesman/televangelist personality" Pearl puts on for the media is mostly a role he steps into in order to accomplish what he needs to do...and look how very well it has worked for him, so far.

What was the general reaction to his comment about  why UK picked Bradley over Lofton? Were the UT fans offended? It was a very gracious statement and sounded genuine, but I felt sorry for Lofton.

 

by cat woman on Mar 6, 2008 10:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Nobody was offended as far as I know.
You'll have to help me out on the details of the whole thing - I moved to K'ville in 2006 so I missed a lot of this.  But IIRC, Bradley was more highly ranked as a recruit at the time and projected to be a better fit for Kentucky.  Additionally, he's played very well.  For discussion, I'll reprint the quote:

"Some of the Kentucky players really stepped up," said Pearl. "Ramel Bradley showed why Kentucky took him and not Chris Lofton. Coming out of New York, he was the best point guard in the nation."

Here in UT, the whole Lofton/UK thing doesn't really have much impact.  Other than it being something we can use to annoy Kentucky fans if we have to, we're just happy to have Lofton and leave it at that.

But I think Pearl's persona has been around for much longer than UT.  To listen to fans of UWM, they recount the same experience we have.  (Many of them now follow UT basketball because of him.)  He certainly doesn't try to be obnoxious, even though it'd be easy to interpret his actions that way.

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 10:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

there were many Kentucky fans
who were pretty upset when Lofton wasn't recruited, as I recall. (Remember UK fans were not always happy with Tubby's recruiting efforts.)We would have liked to have had both Lofton and Bradley!

And your point about Pearl is well made. Now that I think of it, I remember him from what I used to call the University of Evansville, (old age) and he had a lot of flash when he was there, too. That was him, wasn't it?

I say, blame the media for making an issue of Lofton at UT, because it is not something Cat fans resent, only lament.

I was genuinely impressed by Pearl's statement about Bradley. And speaking of impressive, I visited your blog...very nice!

I am shutting down for tonight...but I will catch up to you again.

Thanks for the good b.ball conversation. My dad, a great UK fan, died a few years ago; I live down here in Gator land, and a Sea of Blue fills an important void in life for people who understand loving college ball and loving the Cats.

by cat woman on Mar 6, 2008 10:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Conversation pleasure is mine, too.
Thanks for the discussion.  I'll probably fade in and out from ASoB depending on the sports scene, but I'm having a lot of fun here.  I finished my undergrad at Wyoming, so interacting with fans from the major programs is a new and very intriguing experience.

In the interest of honesty, Rocky Top Talk is not my blog.  Joel is the sole proprietor, but it's the place I do most of my commenting and he's gracious enough to allow me to contribute from time to time.  It was Joel's kind words for Tru that first got me to check this place out.

I'll probably swing back through during the tourneys.  To all UK fans here: I wish you and your team the best of luck.  I love their refusal to quit.  And yes, Ashley Judd is cute.  ;)

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 11:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Pearl
Pearl was the head coach at Southern Indiana.

Also, his quote about Bradley, while kind, is not exactly true. Rivals had Bradley ranked 91st in the country.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 6, 2008 11:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Separated shoulder
Take your hand and find your collar bone.  Follow it out towards your shoulder.  You'll feel the joint where there's a gap between your collar bone (clavicle) and the front edge of your shoulder blade (acromion process).  A separated shoulder is an injury to that joint.

There are different degrees of it.  A Grade I injury is basically just an overstretching of the ligaments that hold it together; other than being sore, its not a big problem.  Grade II involves some tearing, but not complete; it requires rest and some rehab to strengthen it.  A Grade III is a complete tear of it; you can usually see the far end of the collar bone pop up and you can easily press down on it and feel it move; that's a surgical case.

I'd say Porter has either a Grade I or II just based off the comments I read here.  If it was a Grade III, I don't think he'd be playing (but it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility).

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Jasper is invaluable
Totally agree on Jaspers game.  This team looks so different at both ends when he is not out there.  If we didn't learn that the first part of the year then last night was a good reminder of what happens when he has to sit.
Regarding the turnovers, our numbers are high but how much of that is do to the way we run our offense.  We don't run down and jack up the first three like a lot of teams.  To shoot a high precentage you have to handle the ball and work for the best possible shot.  The more passes you make the more opportunities for turnovers.  I'm not saying we are a great ball handling team but I think our turnover number is a tradoff with our ability to dictate tempo and shoot a good percentage.

by Slim Wagers on Mar 6, 2008 11:40 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Porter is gritty..
I hope he improves i want him to succeed at UK and be a valuable player.  But..  let's be real, the odds of him ever earning serious playing time is very very low.

by BeatUL on Mar 6, 2008 12:16 PM EST   0 recs

Just maybe
You know I had pretty much given up on Porter this year.  He became one of my faves when I heard he gave up USC to come to UK.  But hey Billy has done some great things with these players.  Maybe he will do the same with Porter.  He seems improved.

by tenken on Mar 6, 2008 2:45 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Conference title ...
... There is no such thing as a tiebreaker for the SEC Regular Season title, only for the conference tournament.

We won/shared the SEC regular season crown in 2000 and in 2001.

UT has the regular season crown sewn up.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Mar 6, 2008 3:07 PM EST   0 recs

Exactly right.
The regular season winner is only relevant for tournament seeding purposes.

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2008 3:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Conference tourney, right?
Or does it also matter in the NCAA tourney in a way I don't know about (quite likely, for me)?

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 10:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

2008 UK = statistical anomaly
The Cat's conference performance as compared to non-conference just demonstrates a remarkable turnaround -- and the selection committee is going to have to show whether they judge based on how good a team IS or how good the team's equal-weighted-all-game performance since November adds up.

I decided to collect some data and see what has happened in the past.  Using Ken Pomeroy's web site, I built a data set of all teams in the 6 power conferences from 1999 to 2007, and then I calculated  (1) their non-conference win pct, and (2) their in-conf win pct.

The data show that what Kentucky has done this year (disparity between non-conf and conference records) is very rare.  However, there have been teams that have done similar things.

For example....well, actually, maybe I'll do a separate post on this....  :)

The data are not exactly what I wanted -- I think that the W-L records (pct) that I collected actually included post-season play.  (Thus partially explaining why I stopped with the job half-done.)

Anyway, I'd like to (1) add a 3-way variable to the data set indicating whether the team got invited to the tourney as an automatic bid, or as an at-large bid, or did not make the tourney, and (2) run a scatterplot of conf win pct vs. non-conf win pct with the point markers on the plot indicating the variable from (1).  Hmmm, when am I going to do that....

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 3:24 PM EST   0 recs

scatterplot
Two questions:
  1.  Anybody know where I can get a simple, text list in an internet, non-pdf file, of each team that got into the tourney, by year, since 1999?  Even better would be if it indicated at-large vs. automatic bids.
  2.  If I created a scatterplot in MS Excel, would there be a way to post it here?

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 3:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

ASoB
Damn this site rocks!

by wilson452 on Mar 6, 2008 4:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Well ...
you could try the Wikipedia NCAA tournament sites by year.  They have lists that can be converted to text if you know what you are doing.

If you send me an excel file and the text, I will post it for you.

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2008 6:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Dancing with Numbers
When March rolls around, what does it take to make the Dance?

Say your team hails from a flagship public university with a proud sports tradition, and after a very rough start, you righted the ship during conference play (in your power conference).  You finish the season strong, winning 8 out of the last 10.  

But the naysayers won't stop.  Only 18 wins?  A losing non-conference record!  A couple of strong wins in conference, but losses in both matchups against strong teams from other power conferences.  For heaven's sake, you lost 3 games to teams that aren't even in the top 100!  Including San Diego!  You lost to Houston!  

Do you get invited to the Big Dance?  Of course you do, 1999 Texas Longhorns.  (Even though you only won one game in your conference tournament, losing in the second round of the conf tourney to 5th seeded conf team.)

But what if you are not the 1999 Texas Longhorns?  What if you are a different team....  

You have a losing record (with one more loss than wins) in non-conference play, including a loss to a team not in the top 100, and losses in every  inter-conference matchup against strong competition (including being manhandled by the ACC powerhouse).  Only two wins against top-50 competition all season.  But, alas, you finished strong in conference, going 8-2 down the stretch and finishing 12-4 in conference, 17-10 overall.

You won your game against a weak opponent in the conference tournament, but you didn't win the second round game.

Do you get invited to the big dance as an at-large selection?  Of course, you do, 2004 Michigan State Spartans!

These two anecdotes are based on my examination of the performances of teams in the six power conferences over the 9 seasons ending from 1999 to 2007.

In these nine seasons, only two teams (out of 620) from the 6 power conferences finished below .500 in non-conference play but above .700 in conference.  I just described them, and they both got in -- as #7 seeds.

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 5:24 PM EST   0 recs

Incredible
That they not only got in... but as 7 seeds is truly amazing.  As I've already said, I'm hoping for no better than an 11 or 12 seed.  I want to see the fear in the eyes of the poor 4th or 5th seeded team slumping down the stretch into the tournament when they realize they'll be facing up against the winningest team in college basketball with a chip on their shoulder!

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2008 5:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

wow
this is great, great information.  Thanks for doing this research, johnr!  Seven seed sounds pretty nice, eh??

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2008 6:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

seeding
Just getting in sounds nice.  My posting is more of an argument than a prediction.  We're not in yet.

We need to beat Florida and win one more game in the conf tournament for me to feel good about this.

by johnr on Mar 6, 2008 6:49 PM EST   0 recs

But at least the NCAA wants Kentucky in.
UK would be a big draw, even if they went in as an 0-fer-the-season SEC tourney winner #16 seed.  (Yeah, right, but you understand the point.)  Huge fan base, travels well, lotsa history and lotsa media draw.

I think the extra day they have to decide the seeding will work in UK's favor.  They'll have a longer time to figure out a justification for UK that would sound plausible, even if UK turns out to be a really sketchy addition.

by hooper on Mar 6, 2008 10:35 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Im not so sure,
I think losing to UF and winning 2 games to make it to the semies of the SECT would get us in.   I also think that beating the Gators, regardless of what else happens, gives us on honest chance of still getting in.  Yes, UK may have been the first SEC team with 10 conference wins to not make the tournament, and with two losses in a row could be the first SEC team to not make the tournament with 11 conference wins, but I find it hard to believe that 12 SEC wins (esp. with all of the injury problems we have had), along with an RPI in the top 50, would not be enough for UK to make it in.  Moreover, what SEC teams are more deserving that UK for a bid?  Does anyone think only UT, Vandy, and Ole Miss are the only SEC teams getting a bid?  Surely not!

by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 7, 2008 5:15 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

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