Parsing Mitch Barnhart
Today, Larry Vaught has this column in the Danville Advocate-Messenger, ostensibly a puff-piece about Billy Gillispie which includes a bunch of quotes from Mitch Barnhart, and a few of them were ... interesting. I'll start with this one, about the status of Billy Gillispie's contract:
Some would say that is a worry for the lawyers on both sides and not the principles, but in reality, it is a problem that will only escalate with time. The, "Ah, don't worry, be happy" talk will placate the media and the administration people who really do care about this for a while, but not forever. And sooner or later, it will have a negative impact on Gillispie's ability to recruit as other coaches learn how to use this fact to create uncertainty combined with the inevitable media questions that will arise in the off season. Gillispie does not want recruit's parents to be asking, "Exactly why is it you don't have contract after 18 months, Coach?" for much longer.
So let me help everyone out and translate Barnhart's quote for the benefit of those unfamiliar with politico-administrative speak:
"I hope so. I don't think there is any reason for him to want to go anywhere but Kentucky," Barnhart said. "I think he is in love with what he is doing and we love how hard he works at it. The intensity and passion he brings to the program are what our fans want.
"I don't sense there is any need to be worried about any of that. It is a special place for a special coach and a special opportunity to do some neat things here for Billy and I think he knows that."
Given what we have seen this year, I don't see Gillispie pulling up stakes and setting sail, and I don't see UK giving him the heave-ho. He did a good job in a difficult situation and won a co-COY in the SEC. But this contract issue and the careful wording of Barnhart do make me a bit less sanguine than I like to be.
How do I translate this one? I admit, I can't. I don't know what he is trying to tell us here, other than, "It will all be OK -- maybe." Well, I can live with that, I suppose, but it doesn't exactly give me that warm, fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.
Perhaps the departure of Smith really caught Barnhart by surprise and he is just unwilling to be made a fool of in the media. I don't really know and I'm not really concerned -- yet. But this has raised my antennae, and I will be carefully watching Barnhart in the off-season. On thing I do know -- this contract issue needs to be a focus in the off season, because getting that put to bed would make everyone more comfortable.
0 recs |
125 comments
Comments
That contract
by bluegrassgal on Mar 23, 2008 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mitch Is NOT A Very Good AD
Case in point, his fumbled attempts at Tubby's status headed into postseason play last March. It didn't help AT ALL what he said then.
He should say Billy Gillispie Is My Coach and I'm Really Pleased To Have Him etc, etc, etc.
Mitch just isn't very good at the public aspect of the AD job at a school like Kentucky.
(Full disclosure, I'm aware of some difficulties MB had at Oregon State that you may not be regarding the Women's basketball program there)
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Differing View on Mitch
In my opinion, his statements were designed to compel Tubby to consider other employment options.
Your statement that Barnhart "is not a very good AD" is a bit off-base in my view. Regardless of his public statements, the man has put together a rather impressive list of hires, and has overseen the construction of the absolute best practice facility in the history of college basketball. On top of the fact that he stuck with Rich Brooks when everyone and their grandmothers, and their grandmothers sportswriters, were calling for his head.
He's hired Brooks, Gillispie, DeMoss, Cohen, and Brian Craig, all who have experienced great success. I think his hiring of Matthew Mitchell was a solid hire. He hired a softball coach who had the best year in recent memory last year, and the women's golf coach will do a great job.
The importance of him sticking with Brooks cannot be overstated. It allowed for a bit of continuity, and paid huge dividends on the field, and in the coverage of the national press. This fact alone is reason to admire, and respect his decision-making. Plus, he loves to stick it to Jurich and UL. This alone makes his an adored figure in my household :)
The handling of the Joker Phillips as Head Coach in Waiting was perfection. Phillips should, and thankfully will, be the next football coach at UK. Another great call.
I thought Barnhart's quotes in the Vaught piece were extraordinary. He obviously loves the job Gillispie has done, and at times, he seemed to be talking directly to his Head Coach. I think he wants Gillispie to sign the contract, and this may be a ploy to encourage Gillispie to "revisit" the issue.
Whatever is going on, it needs to be resolved. I am on record on this site as writing that I wasn't concerned about the contract not being signed, but that was back in December. At this point, nearly a year after Clyde took the job, it's time to put this issue to bed.
It will be used by competing head coaches against Gillispie, actually, it has more than likely already been used, and will continue to be used against UK in recruiting wars.
The lifeblood of any program is recruiting. Not having a signed contract is equivalent to wading in very dangerous waters. Some coaches will lie, cheat, and steal to sign a recruit. Does anyone think those coaches wouldn't tell a recruit, "hey, Gillispie doesn't even have a contract, he could leave tomorrow with no recriminations. Do you really think he's going to be there for 4 more years"? Now, I don't think a coach can use that tactic with every recruit and his parents, but these coaches know who will, and won't respond to negative recruiting.
The Kelvin Sampsons and Bruce Pearls of the world will stop at nothing.....
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a wonderful ...
If anyone out there is looking for the perfect ASoB model of how to disagree with another member, print this out and frame it.
This is the model, the archetype. This is what makes this blog a good place to talk about Kentucky basketball.
Well done, Ken.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 24, 2008 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks guys...
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My dissent
;-)
Oh wait... are we not on catspause????
by chirop1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Have Different POV On That
I have a childhood friend who does business with MB. Trust me, I know MB fumbles A LOT of things. I'll share specifics privately but not here. My friend does business with lots of UKAA and Who's Who In KY folks. A cancelled business transaction in October 2006 was my first clue Tubby was gone.
I am also aware (knowing the party involved thru Natalie) of some fumbled AD business at Oregon St that wound up costing OSU some $ in a lawsuit settlement. Just 2 specific examples of many.
Rival coaches used those tactics against UK in the past few years. They work sometimes. But UK recruited the #1 class in 2004, the #1 JuCo player in 2005, Top 15 class in 2006, Top 10 class in 2007, and 2 solid recruits in 2008 anyway.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhart
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhardt knew
All is well right now.....my thoughts is that something will happen over the summer....the passion that this coach has shown for his players and for UK tells me that the MEMO is the contract and we should just move on and watch the recruiting season....
Mitch is doing a fantastic job as AD....the only sport I see that still needs fixing is the Women's Basketball team.....get that done and Mitch will go down as one of the best.....he probably already is when you compare him to the crooks of yesteryear...
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not Accurate
You missed the point. Mitch's fumbled public comments in early March 2007 HURT the Wildcats, not helped them.
Mitch is not a very good AD when it comes to the public aspect of the UK athletic program.
CM Newton hired 2 coaches who won NCAA titles. He's the best AD ever at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct..........
That being said, Mitch has done a really good job....yes, your are correct....he did not "know" about Tubby's deal with Minnesota, but I am positive he knew that Tubby was going to have to make some internal staff changes (changes Tubby would not like) if he was going to stay at UK. That was very clear.
Look, Mitch is doing a great job....why does everything have to be a conspiracy? That contract is a private business situation and it will get worked out.....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not True > Pitino Recommended RALPH WILLARD
That Pitino-Recommended-Tubby story is flat out FALSE.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
I have direct experience and see him as confident, calculating and in perfect step with the cycles of today's media. I do not agree 100% with him on everything and would not work well under him I would guess but I don't have to.
I think he is using the media in this case just as he did with Tubby. To get his way. That said, in this arena, he has had easy pickings with Tubby and Billy. A Pitino would be able to spin back at him effectively. Heck, it was neat to watch Brooks hit the cameras and papers to get his side out a few years ago. MB looked (sounded) out matched in the run up to Billy D.
As for CM, I would not say best ever. Good? Absolutely! ONE of the best? Yep. Did he clean up a big mess? Yes! Did he also preside over the payment of 3 football coaches at one time? Yes. Did one of those leave us as big of a hole to fix than he took on at the start? Yes. Did he somehow manage a killer deal to continue to get paid "consulting" bucks by UK long after he left? Yes and It may still be going on I don't know.
I did like CM. And I like MB. I think I would rather hang out CM than MB. I just wouldn't say best ever that's all. But then again, who is he up against. Crooks, swindlers and MB.
I say 5 rounds, no gloves. I would SOO pick MB.
by wilson452 on Mar 24, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Knew He Was Gone (Somewhere) In October 2006
Didn't know where or when but knew he was gone 6 months earlier. Doubt that was public knowledge.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Chuck, ...
It can't be made "Not a problem" by saying so, or ignoring it. And just because the press is not hyping it now, they will be if it doesn't get solved soon. There is a limit to how long this can go on without getting media attention. I don't know what it is, but if Gillispie starts next season without a formal contract, it will be a very big issue.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Me
by tenken on Mar 24, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MOU Is A Contract
So a lawyer told me.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Point 40Y
The termination. It is so open that if he "were" to be leaning to the dark side of his private life as the rumors say then we can cut him loose and tell him to bring it to court. The polls of fans say the payments to fired coaches is out of control. Would a jury reward him?
The MOU spells out also that if he up and quits, he owes us millions. The dude NEEDS an agent!
The person who has the interestt to really get this done is BCG. He needs to get some detail in there or 1) it will be used against him on the recruiting trail and 2) he could loose his rep and finacial but.
by wilson452 on Mar 24, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One year
by tenken on Mar 24, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure on that
It also spells out a buyout for BCG that is stepped for 3 years down from him paying UK 3 million if he left now.
So, the legal agreement states 3 dates from 7 down to 3 that have Course Performance actions tied to them.
I am only worried in the dreaded "perception" war. Legally, I still say he should have had is lawyer there on the call that late night. It really does favor UK as it sits. At least IMO.
by wilson452 on Mar 24, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I meant above......
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Recruits
Let's hope they work on it during the off-season.
by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matters Not To Recruits
THAT matters more to recruits.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But recruits parents ...
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who/what are your sources about this?.......
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My sources ...
If it had been 18 months, I would ask hard questions.
Longer, I would consider it a problem.
I agree it isn't an issue right now, as I have said in the post and elsewhere, and if it is worked out over the summer, everything will be fine. But the sooner, the better. That's all I'm saying.
But my question is ultimately why Barnhart is suggesting that it isn't a problem. I think it is, albeit a little one right now. Your mileage may vary.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
by tenken on Mar 24, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unease
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Coaches And AD's Often Don't Like Each Other
Gillispie is a rising star in coaching.
Mitch is not.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All Contingencies Need to Be Covered
Whether they are friends now or whether they are wary of each other, Billy and Barney need to come to a detailed written agreement. In particular, the university needs to protect itself by clearly spelling out grounds for termination and the amount of compensation due. If it doesn't the divorce could really get messy.
Good businessmen don't enter into multi-million dollar deals without a solid contract. The uncertainty has to grate on Lee Todd.
by Fortunatus on Mar 23, 2008 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I have heard
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so is this kind of stuff valid?
by cat woman on Mar 23, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is ridiculous
by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by The Lexpatriate on Mar 23, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all ...
There are a good number of people in Lexington who are still angry and feel that the last administration was run off or mistreated, and my feeling is that a number of these misguided souls are behind much of these sensational rumors.
I am convinced that the fact we don't have a contract in place now is the product of a disagreement in the terms, and I doubt seriously if the inclusion of a morals clause is the issue. Most likely, it is the wording of several clauses combined with some uncertainty between the two camps as to the other's ultimate intentions.
It is in the interest of both parties to resolve this uncertainty, and I believe they will. As much as anything, I think the fact that Gillispie wanted to get started fast and the whirlwind of a season that saw him have to put a lot of things in place in a short time are the biggest contributor to the delay. The unfounded rumors of moral turpitude are exactly that, and the absence of a contract is the only tangible thing that gives the rumormongers something to point at in support of their nonsense.
I expect that to change now that Gillispie has a season under his belt and has time to attend to these matters. The contract needs attending to if for no other reason than to stop the rampant speculation that some kind of unsavory behavior is the reason behind the delay.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumors slowed....
People wanted him gone...people who just don't know any better.....unfortunate when you have such a huge fan base.....fringe groups.....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Think I Know Where The Rumors Originate
They still do. The rumors come (ultimately) from them.
Not only did I talk to Patterson's parents (He Will Stay At UK 4 Years per them) but a few others, too.
Including one friend high up in UKAA. The rumors are 99% baloney (per my friend, whom I cannot identify).
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well then-
FYCF, you just one-upped everyone else's take on the rumors in my opinion.
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust me, Forty ...
Don't get me wrong -- you will find no stronger Tubby Smith supporter anywhere than me. I have mad respect for him and his entire family, and I was not happy when he left.
There are many Smith supporters who feel he was mistreated (with justification) by some of our fan base and even some at the school. Some of them are happily "helping" by passing along every little negative thing they hear as fact, because they feel that they are somehow helping Smith's legacy, when in reality they are just hurting everyone.
And if Smith knew any of these people were carrying the torch for him this way, I have no doubt he would strongly rebuke them and ask them to desist. But he does not, and cannot.
We must be honest about this. There are many more aggrieved Smith supporters here than Pelphrey supporters. That is just reality. I hope they will get over it, and stop. Smith does not need help with his legacy, he is a great coach and great coaches can more than stand on their own.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Agree With That
$13 million / 7 year contract. Working with his son. Great university. Chance to rebuild basketball tradition there. (Yes, they have one) Fabulous AD there. Joel Maturi is Top Shelf.
There are very few FOT in Lexington, UKAA, or UK boosters. Those who are, would not do what you say.
I saw him last August. Big smile. This February. Bigger smile. This month. Huge smile. I've never seen Tubby or Donna happier in the 8 years I've known them.
He's (finally) happy. So are we who are FOT.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh ...
But I am happy for him as well.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 24, 2008 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you Jerry Tipton?
by funkadelic on Mar 23, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are stable......
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 20 Recruiting Classes
The UK fanbase was deliriously happy.
UK signed Top 20 classes in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006. (Not 2005)
The UK fanbase was very unhappy.
UK signed Top 20 class in 2007 and maybe 2008.
The UK fanbase is happy again.
It wasn't recruiting.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same Thing In 1980's
UK fanbase was miserably UNHAPPY. Worst decade in 50 years for UK. Still the only decade where UK did not play in NCAA title game at least once.
Not recruiting then, either.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rumors
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zero Chance Of Okla St
(2) Gillispie won't go there (per 1st hand words of Okla St AD on February 27, 2008 at Okla St women's game in Stillwater OK, I attended it) under any circumstances.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe........
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies.....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just so you know........
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you lost your credibility
by funkadelic on Mar 23, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe........
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also......
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure........
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why......
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather be....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You......
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok......
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hogwash
In the era of cameras on EVERY cellphone, wouldn't there be pictures on the Internet if true?
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well,
Drinking too much and getting thrown out of bars - a picture would have a difficult time confirming this. A picture of him holding a drink or two, or even looking a little sloshed, could not be held as real evidence of him being kicked out or being obnoxious in a bar.
And hopefully when BCG is dancing on the mattress, with whomever it may be (including an ex-players girlfriend), BCG is not snapping photos so he can show them off to a friend or post them on a web.
Nor could a picture show that he and Barnhardt don't like each other, or that BCG doesn't like Lexington.
Yes some stupid college athletes get caught in pitcures of them binge drinking in silly outfits, but I assume that BCG would be conducting his partying more descretely if he is indeed partying like a college kid.
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another one...
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gillispie Likes To Drink, Yes
But 99% of the rumors are BS.
Nothing more, nothing less.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UKAA Does Know
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru, let me help translate
are you that bored that you have to make this stuff up?
by BeatUL on Mar 23, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I made nothing up ...
Maybe you don't agree. I could not possibly care less.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes you did..
by BeatUL on Mar 23, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by funkadelic on Mar 23, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am doing neither ...
So why beat around the bush, Barnhart? Why not just say, "We're working on it, and we'll get it done in due course?" To dismiss it like that is not a serious response, and makes people wonder what the hell is going on here.
Major universities should not operate under these types of agreements. They are not good for either party. They are unprofessional and will eventually become a much bigger issue. The first 15 months or so, it is not really a problem, but as I said, if we head into next season with this unresolved, it will be a huge issue. I would like to see it resolved soon, so that nobody has anything to think about except next season's basketball team.
I do not bury my head in the sand and pretend all is well when there is something like this out there. It isn't big, but it will become big, and I am all about seeing these things nipped in the bud. I want Gillispie here and I want him signed, sealed and delivered. I think he should be comfortable with that, and the Athletic Administration as well. Let's get it done.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is absurd
by BeatUL on Mar 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have two brain cells..........
If not, I will just have to spend my computer time somewhere else.....I hate it because I check this site every day and enjoy the back and forth.
Tru, it is not you...it is some of the responses to this thread.....these are responses I see at some of the other sites......just jumping with both feet back into this rumor garbage that pretty much faded away until today.......Geez
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck ...
But I will not hide from anything. Never. I will argue my case with logic and, I hope, intelligence, with malice toward none. But I will not sacrifice reality on the altar of convenience. That's how I have run this site since I have been blessed to own it, and I don't see any reason to change.
If this discussion makes you uncomfortable, I regret your discomfort, but I believe in what I am doing.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough....
by funkadelic on Mar 23, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And ...
I agree that it is likely getting attention, but I would hate for this to be the next big issue, and it annoys me that Barnhart left everybody with the impression that he would be fine if there never was a contract. That just isn't professional, in my view. I feel sure that isn't the impression he intended to leave, but that's just what he did.
And I still don't get the "I hope everything is OK" statement. What is that all about? I would expect that he is in a position to know, if anyone is, and surely something a bit less tentative would be nice to see.
And like you, I would like to see us get a little inside help for next year.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my spidey senses
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need a contract
Some people seem to be of the understanding that because the job at issue is that of the head coach of the most storied college basketball program in history, the law surrounding contracts and employement don't apply, or apply differently. That simply is not the case.
If the relationship between employer (UK) and employee (Gillispie) goes sour, the lack of a comprehensive employment contract between the parties could be devasting for all involved, including the basketball program itself. It is in the best interests of Gillispie and the University to get a contract in place.
I agree that UK and Gillispie probably have an army of competent attorneys working on this issue, but the fact that he has coached for an entire season operating only under a "memo of understanding" is of concern, and Tru is correct to point it out. He's not harping on rumors of Gillispie's exra-curricular activities - he's stating facts, and facts that fans should be concerned with. There likely is some legally binding operation to the "memo," but things could still get VERY messy if the parties don't get this worked out, with clear terms. Yes, we're in Kentucky, but a handshake and a signature on a napkin (overstating, I know) is simply NOT good business sense, and not legally adviseable.
That being said, I'd be happy to do the contract drafting!
by blbskue on Mar 23, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction:
by blbskue on Mar 23, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks ...
And you are absolutely right about another thing -- I never once mentioned rumors of any kind in my original post. Never. Rumors are irrelevant -- what is relevant is that the contract needs to be agreed to. What is relevant is that Barnhart should not be promoting the idea that the contract is unimportant -- it is important, and will become more so as time goes on.
Barnhart is supposed to be looking out for the interests of the University of Kentucky insofar as the contract (or lack thereof) is concerned. Dismissing it as unimportant seems wrong to me.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another persective
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight ...
With due respect, this is a blatant logical fallacy.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Bobby Perry Agrees To Be Quoted Publicly
I also have read where he said (don't know if he really did or not) that his former UK coach hasn't talked to him in a year.
That is utterly 100% untrue and I know that factually because I know his former coach and have spoken with him several times in the past year.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the 2008 seniors?
This is offtopic, but something I've been wondering. Since you are a buddy of Smith's, I thought I might ask you.
Do you know if Smith spoke to Bradley or Crawford (or any of the players) at all from when he quit to the time Gillispie took the reigns? Several players were quoted in saying that they hadn't heard anything from him since he took the Minnesota job. This seemed kind of out of character for Smith, so I had a hard time believing it. Is it possible that it was some kind of NCAA violation to talk to players of another team?
by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Cannot Speak To Current UK Players
Gillispie could not / did not speak to TAMU players or recruits, either.
NCAA rule involving tampering.
Tubby's cell phone # was available to lots of people from the UK circumstances. Those who wanted to contact him, easily did so.
I'm a very distant acquaintance, and I've seen him 3 times (talked to him, too). It's not hard.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense
by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never ...
I do not operate that way. I question what I hear and what I see. I disbelieve "sources", but in no way am I questioning your personal veracity. I don't do that. Ever.
As far as Perry is concerned, I have not heard him say anything to anyone, so I can draw no conclusion about his veracity, and absent context, how could anyone?
Besides, we all have to recognize that every word out of the mouth of young men is subject to some skepticism. Bobby, Joe, Ramel, Chuck -- they all have a potential conflict of interest, that being the idea that Gillispie is a better coach for UK than Smith. It is likely that they would defend Smith, even to the extent of suggesting something less than flattering about his successor. I have been in that situation before, and I know what loyalty will do. It will make you rationalize.
Bottom line -- I will wait for a more reliable source before drawing any conclusions at all.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to ...
The main thing we want here is conversation that is respectful of others. You are welcome, even if I don't agree with much of what you have said.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Clyde
The point is this coach needs to come to terms with this university, his contractual obligations and become part of the community. We have no place for cowboys in Lexington. There are enought cowboys loose in Texas for most of the population hers.
Bottom line, this great coach and sometimes reckless, but good hearted person has the opportunity of a lifetime. He has an entire state behind him who hold him in higher regard than the governor. We will have to simply wait and see how he embraces us and in turn we embrace him. Winning, however, solves everything.
by SanAntonioCat on Mar 23, 2008 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The last thing....
Winning changes alot of things...again, these rumors started when we were losing..they faded when we started winning...now the season is over and this thread (mostly by one specific poster) has turned into rumor central again....
Borrowing a poster's comments above...this HURTS Kentucky......It does not help. Let's talk about something else....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I here ya ...
I can say this -- honest discussion is what we do here. I don't believe honest discussion hurts anything, and if it does, perhaps it isn't worth protecting. Kentucky does not need protection from honest discussion.
Mentioning a rumor does not validate it, and opens it up to scrutiny which you, me, and others have disposed of, in my view. I don't like people bringing them up to be honest, they need to be defeated with reason. Ignoring the fact that they exist is not the way to go, if you ask me.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you.....
by bigbluebrh222 on Mar 23, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Verification
What am I going to do about it? Verify. Next time I'm in Lexington, I'm going to make a point of going to brave post-game traffic and make my way to Sal's or wherever the rumored BCG watering hole is at the time, and see what's really going on with my own eyes. I bet I won't see any sign of him at all.
And honestly, if he wants to go enjoy a few drinks, more power to him. Kentucky exports every variety of liquor known to man, from Gilbey's London Dry Gin to Puerto Rican Rum. It is hypocrital of Kentuckians to deny him the enjoyment of some social drinking.
If he's a sloppy drunk getting DUI's and endangering people, that's different. But I don't believe that. Yes, he has some DUI's on his record, but he said he is done with that behavior, and I believe him until the police say otherwise.
And as far as the "womanizing" goes, as long as it's consensual, he can do whatever he wants. He's the most important person in the state of Kentucky, and a bachelor. If he wants to do some casual dating, who are we to tell him or his (alleged) ladies how to behave? I know I'd be living the vida Bruce Pearl if I were he.
Lexingtonians need to understand that when they hire a basketball coach, that's what they're getting. There is nothing in the contract, nor should there be, about how the coach can and can't spend his personal life. What would you do if your employer tried to regulate how many dates you needed to have with a member of the opposite sex (and/or marriage) before having carnal relations? I would laugh in the face of anyone who put such a document in front of me.
Lexingtonians really need to realize that they live in a municipality that services a million people and get over their small-town voyeurism and do their best to look the other way. Just let the coach live his private life as long as he isn't hurting anyone.
Of course everyone in Lexington isn't this way, so my apologies to privacy-respecting Lexingtonians, but there's a huge contingent that really need to relax, IMHO.
by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small correction
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stopped Twice For Suspicion Of It
Not sure the other time.
But no DUI convictions.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning does solve everything.
I more concerned about the effects of the circulating rumors will have on the program - not whether or not they are true.
by cdnWildcatfan on Mar 23, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Adolph Rupp
But he won 82% of his games, 4 NCAA titles, 27 SEC titles, 1 NIT title, and 6 Helms Trophies.
The latter is how he is remembered.
The former is forgotten.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we believe Rumors or do we believe this.......?
Larry Vaught is a respected local writer...I doubt he made this up....it is articles like this that make me feel comfortable with Coach and even more comfortable that he will work out the "contract" situation...IF it needs to be worked out...
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe him ...
My point is that there are clearly issues that must be resolved. Gillispie is, in my opinion at least, the right man for this job. I think he wants to be here, but I am less than convinced that the Administration and he are on the same page. Barnhart's comments that I dealt with in my piece did nothing to dispel those concerns.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than the contract....
by Chuck Alexinis on Mar 23, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Vaught
I swap E-Mails (and occasional phone calls) with him regularly. Straight shooter, THE BEST Ky media person BAR NONE.
I'm not a Barnhart fan. But the Gillispie stuff is Much Ado About Nothing at this point.
He'll be at UK for the duration of his MOU and beyond.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 9:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
As far as the rumors......this is my rumor.....I have a bud that has a relative that does Billy's travel arragements at UK. He said that Billy IS ALWAYS on the road. How does the guy have time to go around sleeping with UK cheerleaders and other Lexington women. He is NEVER home. Heck he didn't even buy a house until well into the summer. This guy is a workaholic. He has a tremendous work ethic. ITs well documented. But lets see here........were these rumors out when he was at UTEP or at Texas A&M? I don't think they were. He wouldn't have suddendly developed these habits. Pretty sad that he comes to Kentucky and this crappy rumor stuff happens. He is single and single people in high positions get alot of crap swirling around them. Kentucky is somewhat in the Bible belt and people in our region do not trust single men in their forties in a postion of dealing with youth. Its silly but its true.
On this coaching contract issue.........yall it needs to be signed. We ARE KENTUCKY!!!!! This isn't some no name basketball program. We are supposed to be above the rest. Be the leader and example. Not good business to have a coach without a contract signed. THink North Carolina would allow that to happen. THink Indiana would. How about Duke? Don't think so.
by tenken on Mar 24, 2008 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rumors in today's technology age
When I see a grainy picture of BCG with his hand down the shorts of a co-ed (a al Larry Eustachy) I'll believe it.
by chirop1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MOU vs Contract
If Roy Williams (for example) were to use the MOU vs Contract angle for recruiting purposes, my response would basically be "Yeah... ask the kids who played at Kansas about Roy's contract."
by chirop1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with this picture?
From where I sit though, there is one HUGE problem. Why the hell is it, that once again whenever there is the slightest hint of "juicy gossip" or a chance to post negative B*llSH*T, these posts get the most comments/responses?
Does anyone else think its a bit odd that a March 18th post that took a pretty cool look back on this season got a total of 15 comments. Or how about a March 19th post recognizing the fact that ASoB got its 1,000,000th hit getting only a grand total of 17 comments congratulating Tru, JL Blue, and TFGM on a job well done. Yet here we are again, just like when FGM asked a question about OTS getting any credit for this years success, a post when people have a chance to spout negativity or pass on the latest and greatest "hey, guess what I heard," people come out of the woodwork and there are over 100 comments.
What a crook of shit, especially on the heels of the great turnaround this team had.
by wldcatsfreak on Mar 24, 2008 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
People like conflict...
It sells papers.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have written....
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What it is ...
I have written about this before, and may do so again: The Big Blue Nation has not healed from the days of the Tubby Smith wars.
What we have are a certain group of Wildcat fans willing to go to extremes to defend Gillispie against any hint of criticism. Then, you have another, smaller group, including (but not limited to) many former Smith supporters, who tend to gobble up anything that could be seen as criticism of Gillispie, and reinforce it.
Why? I don't really know. I think as much as anything, it is hard feelings remaining from all the combat prior to Smith's departure. There are still message boards out there who spend as much time bashing Smith as praising Gillispie.
I have said this before, and I will say it again -- this rift in the fan base has not gone away, and will not go away until Gillispie has significant success. As much as I loved the results of his effort this year, you cannot point to that in the context of Kentucky's tradition and call last season a successful one. That is just reality.
Now, some may come in and say, "But wait, he's only had one year!" They would be right, but since when did logic and reason trump emotion and hurt feelings? Never. And it won't happen in this case, either.
Don't let it get you down. This is all part of the healing experience and is the dark side of being a Kentucky fan. No fan base is without its warts, and this is but one of ours.
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 25, 2008 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree
On the issue of so many post. You get responses when people want to debate something. We all know Tru and his gang have done a good job so there is no debating that. When you get a subject that debatable such as a contract then you will get more post. Its not a bad reflection on UK just the way it is.
by tenken on Mar 25, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huggins Isn't Signed (Yet)
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I found on Huggins
University plus some additional, but the desire to return home won out with Huggins. The WVU contract has been reported as being valued at five million over five years with an $800,000 base salary in the first year. He has been quoted as saying
by tenken on Mar 25, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Must Be Recently Signed
I'm sure there are others.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I asked for
by tenken on Mar 25, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Gillispie
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I LOVE BILLY G!!!!!!!!!!!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 25, 2008 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
From Seth Davis
* On another Kansas-related note, I am still hearing that Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder is considering jettisoning Sean Sutton so he can make a run at Bill Self, an OSU alum. And if Holder can't get Self, word is he's deeply interested in Kentucky's Billy Gillispie. Why would Holder think he could pry away coaches from two of the most storied programs in college basketball history? Because he has Boone Pickens, the billionaire alumnus who donated $165 million to the Oklahoma State athletic department two years ago. I've heard some crazy contract figures being tossed around -- anywhere from 10 years, $30 million to five years, $20 million, which is tip money for Pickens -- but at the end of the day I have a hard time envisioning either Self or Gillispie leaving their current gigs. It would be a shame if Oklahoma State fired Sutton, who did a very respectable job this season under trying circumstances, all in a careless effort to buy a big-name coach who ends up turning them down.
by tenken on Mar 25, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bravo Seth...
Davis has been paying attention. Which is more than I could say for him on a number of occasions this past year.
I think he nailed this one.
OSU may have Boone Pickens, but most other major universities with a high profile basketball program, are capable of raising big money for any number of reasons, in the blink of an eye.
I do root for OSU to do well. I know that is very unpopular to say 'round these parts, but ever since Leonard Hamilton coached the Cowboys I have pulled for them to win. They are true basketball fans stuck in the middle of football country, plus I despise Kansas, although less so now that Roy Williams is gone.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 25, 2008 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gallagher-Iba Arena
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2008 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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