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Before they came to Kentucky

Today, just for fun and in celebration of the fact that it is less than 40 days now until Big Blue Madness, I thought I would look at summaries of our last four coaches' college coaching statistics before they came to Kentucky.  So without any further ado, here is the table:

Before they came to Kentucky
  Sutton Pitino* Smith Gillispie
Years 16 7 6 5
Won 342 133 124 100
Lost 125 74 62 58
Winning Seasons 16 6 6 4
Losing Season 0 1 0 1
Average wins 21.38 19 20.67 20
Average losses 7.81 10.57 10.33 11.6
% Seasons >= 10 L 0.31 0.43 0.5 0.4
Worst Winning % 0.56 0.48 0.52 0.2
Best Winning % 0.93 0.74 0.74 0.79
Average % 0.73 0.64 0.66 0.63
NCAA Appearances 10 1 4 3
Final Fours 1 1 0 0
Final Eights 2 0 0 0
Sweet Sixteens 3 0 3 1
% NCAA Appear. 0.63 0.14 0.67 0.6
*Spent 2 years coaching NY Knicks before coming to Kentucky

Well, now, I'm not sure if this tells us anything too significant, but I have never really seen them compared side-by-side like this, and there are a few interesting things to note.

The first thing that catches my eye is that despite different pre-Kentucky career lengths and decades, the average number of wins is strikingly close.  Obviously, the closer we are to today, the more games, on average, most teams played. Back in the 70's, which is where Eddie Sutton coached his first games, there were not only fewer games in the season, but in the tournament, as well.

The second thing that gets my attention is how close the "worst" winning percentages are, with the exception of Billy Gillispie.  Gillispie's first coaching assignment was a UTEP program that was totally moribund, and he took it over too late to do much with it the first year.  But what a difference he made after that, going from 2 wins to an NCAA appearance.

The % of seasons with greater than 10 losses (a recent "benchmark" of detractors of our previous coach) is somewhat surprisingly similar, even with the variances in career length.  It is interesting to note that only Eddie Sutton averaged less than 10 losses for his pre-Kentucky college career.  It's also kind of interesting to note that only Pitino and Gillispie have ever experienced a losing season in their career.

Notice average winning %, and how very close it is between our last three coaches who had similar pre-Kentucky career lengths.  I have to give Gillispie some more props here, because if you take away that 2-win season and replace it with a 17-13 one, he would be close to the top in average winning %.  Of course, Sutton blows everyone away in NCAA appearances because his career was more than twice as long as his nearest peer.  Looking at % NCAA appearances, the numbers suggest that both Gillispie and Smith would have had similar values similar to Sutton if their pre-Kentucky career had been as long.  This isn't a knock on Pitino -- his college career was interrupted twice by stints in the professional ranks, and that would be expected to impact his numbers.

Anyway, you can tell I am scraping the bottom of the barrel when I post things about our historical coaches' pre-Kentucky career, but well, I always like to play around with such things, just for fun if nothing else.  Also, I must disclaim that there was a bit of manual data entry and there could be an error or two in here, so if you spot one, please feel free to point it out.

Update [2007-9-4 17:59:56 by Truzenzuzex]:  Just on the off chance some UK fans have forgotten what incredible, worldview-changing, ego-crushing, mind-numbing agony feels like, read this.  I truly feel Dave's pain.

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Sorry...pet peeve
Loose Loose, v. n. [imp. & p. p. Loosed; p. pr. & vb. n.
   Loosing.] [From Loose, a.]
   1. To untie or unbind; to free from any fastening; to remove
      the shackles or fastenings of; to set free; to relieve.

Losing Los"ing, a. [See Lose, v. t.]
   Causing or incurring loss; as, a losing game or business.

Sorry Tru....Pet peeve of mine.  Just thought I'd point it out.....I'll shut up now.  :)

by sylvar on Sep 4, 2007 3:36 PM EDT   0 recs

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Can't ... Stop ... spelling ... Lose ... LOOSE! Dammit. Thanks for the correction.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ha
Truzie,

All writers have their Waterloo.

Yours is "lose/loose." Always has been.

You are an entertaining, articulate and talented writer. Never loose sight of that.

 

by catlanta91 on Sep 4, 2007 4:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm gonna have to ...
change my name to "Bonaparte". :-(

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 4:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
No Problem... I am a numbers guy myself (thats why I frequent this site).

Keep up the good work!

by sylvar on Sep 4, 2007 3:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Sutton
Sutton is OLD OLD OLD.

I never realized just how old eddie sutton was until I saw that he spent 10 years as a head coach before coming to UK and he just retired last year.

No one cares about your spelling mistakes. Keep the posts coming.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Sep 4, 2007 4:57 PM EDT   0 recs

Tried and failed...
to stop myself from pointing out the Gilispie (Gillespie) problem... 'nuff said. Sorry Tru.

by blueblood on Sep 4, 2007 5:15 PM EDT   0 recs

Well ...
I just got it wrong one time in one little spot. I can live with getting it wrong one time out of 4. I misspell 'lose' all the time. Drives me nuts.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 10:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why Stop with Sutton
I would really like to see the comparison between RUPP and all his successors.

by MacKYcat on Sep 4, 2007 7:10 PM EDT   0 recs

That ...
comparison isn't all that interesting.  Rupp simply dominates them.  It is like shooting a fly with a cannon.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 10:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitino
Interesting that Ricky boy had only taken one team to NCAA tournament in seven tries before landing in Lexington.  
lakelandblue

by atlantic601 on Sep 4, 2007 7:36 PM EDT   0 recs

even more interesting
Pitino's Pre-UK winning percentage: 64%
Pitino's Winning Percentage at UK: 81+%
Pitino's Winning Percentage at UL: 67.5%

I find it very interesting that his post-UK numbers are only slightly better than his Pre-UK numbers and neither compares to what he did at UK.

by sylvar on Sep 4, 2007 8:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That ...
is interesting. I wish I had thought of it. You think the school (UK in particular) just might have had a little something to do with his success? I do.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 10:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely...
    I believe that whole-heartedly.  I have often felt that the school (via tradition, fan support, aura, karma...whatever) has elevated the game of all the coaches since Rupp. Unfortunately, Pitino is the only one we have a large enough sample on the make any judgement.
    Now, I can't wait to see what Tubby's numbers look like a Minn.

by sylvar on Sep 5, 2007 9:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Second Fiddle
The numbers say more about UL than Pitino. For the last few years I have said that Pitino's struggles at Louisville are tangible proof that UL is not in the same stratosphere as UK, relative to college basketball.

It has taken him many more years to right the ship at UL, but as expected his recruiting acumen has taken over. It also helps that there is now an age restriction for the NBA, which takes away an opportunity for him to screw up.

by Ken Howlett on Sep 5, 2007 11:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitino
Observations from inside the Watterson from a Cat Fan surrounded by Card mania

Pitino is not the same guy or coach that he was in early nineties.  Yes, he's still top notch HOF material capable of winning a title but some key differences

  • While he is still "driven", he's not the 24/7 maniac run thru a brick wall guy that he was in the nineties
  • He relies much more on assistants in terms of practice and recruiting
  • Winning every game is no longer life or death to him
  • Instead of taking on the world over every little cause, there's alot more "whatever"
I would attribute these differences to natural aging and maturity and the effects of losing his bro-in-law best friend in 9/11.  

He's probably a better person but not quite as good coach as he was in the mid 90s

by run and gun on Sep 6, 2007 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gillespie at UTEP during his first year there...
I am a huge Gillespie fan. I followed him from UTEP to Texas A&M and now, ironically, I will follw him at Kentucky. I enjoyed your analysis of previous Kentucky coaches, but a comment you made about Gillespie's only losing season at UTEP inspired me to respond. I was a basketball season ticket holder the year that Gillespie was hired as our head coach. Being a Miner faithful, I attended every home game that losing season, and, to my surprise, it was the most memorable year of any basketball season I could recall. Coach Gillespie had inspired his mediocre players to hustle and dive for every lose ball, defend as if your life depended on it, and always attempt to improve yourself and your teammates, no matter what the scoreboard showed. I believe the UTEP fans fell in love with Gillespie during that first losing season. You could see that good times were ahead (although we didn't expect a NCAA record turn-around in win lose totals). I wish you were there, as odd as it may sound, during one late season loss, as the buzzer blaired, to see the Miner faithful in a standing ovation, applauding the efforts of this rag-tag UTEP team...

Thanks for letting me share that with you and I wish all the best to Gillespie and Kentucky this season...

Robert, UTEP class of 92

by UTEP 92 on Sep 4, 2007 9:39 PM EDT   0 recs

Hi Robert ...
thanks for stopping by and telling us about Billy G.'s UTEP team. I just hope he can do for our McDonalds All-Americans what he did for the under-talented but determined group that made up his first team at UTEP. In fact, we are counting on it. Thanks again for coming by and taking the time to comment. I wish I had been there too, I love to see kids playing their hearts out like that.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 4, 2007 10:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Michigan
How can anyone feel sorry for them.  They raid Kentucky players to sit on the bench at Michigan and then they do not win.  They usually have one of the highest ranked recruiting classes and then under achieve.  They simply waste the recruits from Kentucky.  Michigan is no better than Notre Dame.
If you were arrested and charged with being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?

by Seymour on Sep 5, 2007 12:58 AM EDT   0 recs

I have never ...
had a problem with Michigan fans. Maybe that's because there is really so little of anything resembling a rivalry between our two schools.

Michigan has a great football program, and you can hardly blame Kentucky recruits from going there given their tradition.  Besides, it isn't like Kentucky doesn't hit their basketball recruits pretty hard.  We have stolen away two of their best over the last 4 years, and I don't see that coming to an end.

And I am fine with Notre Dame as well. Never met a Notre Dame or Michigan fan that was anything other than polite and respectful of Kentucky, at least to my face.  Probably just dumb luck, but neither school has ever given me a reason not to like them. I even liked Digger Phelps back when he was coaching basketball at ND.

by Truzenzuzex on Sep 5, 2007 6:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There is somethign to be said..
about the synergies of putting together the up and coming coach with drive, motivation and talent with the Mecca of college basketball that is UK.. the results are success.

Look at the resumes, tenures and what we all know of coaches at UK.  Here is what the media fails to report:

  • UK turns the up and coming coach into a superstar
  • UK doesn't hire coaches that already have championships
  • Coaches stay a long time at UK
  • UK doesn't fire its coaches
  • UK makes its coaches rich and famous
  • Former UK coaches (ok, Pitino and the drunk make for a small sample size) do not succeed elsewhere as they did at UK.
Simply put, there is no better place for an up and coming coach to hang his hat.  That coach will win big and will become rich and famous doing it.

by Catfan on Sep 6, 2007 12:33 PM EDT   0 recs

Billy G
That all sounds perfeclty plausible.

thats why I think G is going to be such a hit here.

He is all of the things that Pitino used to be.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Sep 6, 2007 2:51 PM EDT   0 recs

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