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Gillispie vs. Smith: Contrasts In Recruiting

Danville Advocate-News and Scout.com contributor Larry Vaught has been a UK favorite author for many years.  Yesterday, Larry penned this piece for Scout in which he asks the question, "Why has Billy Gillispie been able to do in three months what Tubby Smith had not been able to do?"  I have seen this question asked many times on UK message boards, and I think it is time we cogitated on the matter and posited an answer.  It may not be right, but then again ...

Since coming to Kentucky back on the first of April, Coach Gillispie has accomplished the following, recruiting-wise:

  1. Signed Patrick Patterson (5 *, 2007) to a NLOI.

  2. Received verbal commitments from Alex Legion (4 *, 2007), DeAndre Liggins (5 *,2008), GJ Villarino (3 *, 2009) and Dakotah Euton (5 *, 2010)

  3. Appears to be on the cusp of obtaining verbal commitments from: Leonard Washington (4 *, 2007?), Rotnei Clarke (4 *, 2008), K.C. Ross-Miller (5 *, 2010).Update [2007-7-1 17:40:57 by Truzenzuzex]:  Apparently, Ross-Miller has given UK a verbal commitment.

Larry Vaught makes this point about the Big Blue Nation's perception of recruiting under Coach Smith:

Kentucky seldom got early verbal commitments like the one it got from senior-to-be DeAndre Liggins of Chicago earlier this week.  An early commitment for Smith was October, or November.  More often than not, Kentucky was still chasing players when the spring signing period started.

Every Kentucky fan has wondered why Coach Smith always seemed to be behind other programs in recruiting, and many theories have been posited:

  1. Smith was lazy.

  2. Smith didn't like to recruit

  3. Smith put too much on his assistants

  4. People didn't want to play Smiths' style

  5. Smith got outworked by other coaching staffs

and probably a few others as well.

Now, what we will never know, most likely, is the complete explanation for Coach Smith's difficulties, real or perceived.   However, I think there is much more to it than the simplistic explanations offered above.

Most of these explanations seem easy to dismiss.  For example, I don't think anyone can reasonably suggest Coach Smith was lazy – hard work was his stock in trade.  Putting too much on his assistants?  More likely a symptom than the problem.  Coaching style?  Maybe, but not likely the major reason.  Outworked?  Possibly, but not demonstrably.

The most likely reason appears to be that Coach Smith didn't love to recruit.  I can't offer definitive proof of that, but there is some evidence out there that he actually doesn't like recruiting that much:

Evidence, but not really proof.  Still, I think we can conclude that there may be other things Coach Smith would rather do than recruiting, like say, coaching.  But we all know that in college basketball, one hand washes the other - there is no way to recruit indifferently and have a team that consistently challenges for the national championship.

Still another reason for the perception of Coach Smith's recruiting is the apparent reluctance he had for bringing in one-year players.  Smith clearly preferred to bring in talented players who were likely to stay in his system for more than a couple of years.  Obviously, when recruiting 4-year players, the top 25 every year were not good candidates - they tend to stay a year or two and enter the NBA draft, a la Rajon Rondo and Randolph Morris.

Why would Smith prefer to pass on uber-talent?  There was actually a method to this apparent madness, I think, and my earlier analysis of Coach Gillispie's offensive and defensive schemes may provide a clue.  As we all no doubt know, Tubby Smith famously employed the ball-line defense, a variant of the man-to-man where weak-side players run to the "ball line" -- the level of the basketball - and toward the mid-court line.  Of course, that is a very simplistic view of the defense, as many variations of it are available.  We also know that Smith liked to occasionally employ zones and even junk defenses to confuse the opposition and keep them off-balance.

Even one of Kentucky's quickest-ever defensive studies, Chuck Hayes, found Smith's byzantine defensive schemes to be very difficult to handle, saying in this Victoria Sun article in the Cincinnati Enquirer that it took him his entire freshman year to learn the ball-line alone.  We have seen how effective Smith's defensive schemes can be when implemented by veteran players, as the 2003 SuffoCats often emasculated teams with Smith's defense, sometimes leading to an ignominious first-half surrender.

But defense isn't the only thing Smith's recruits had to learn.  Tubby Smith ran a complex offense call the "Flex", which requires much screen setting and running to spots.  To effectively employ this type of offense, a player must set sharp screens, then move after the defender has been disadvantaged.  As we saw from last year's team, the best personnel at running Smith's offensive and defensive system were often the least talented players we had, which resulted in even more fan frustration when players like Perry Stevenson, who was slow to learn Smith's system, wound up playing little in spite of his superior athleticism and skill.

So what we wind up with, in the final analysis, is a study in contrasts. One coach employs a relatively simple offensive and defensive scheme that can be learned relatively quickly.  The other employs a complex offense and defense which takes years to learn well.  What can be concluded from this is that both coaches are recruiting to what they see as their strengths - Smith to his style, and Gillispie to his.

Now, I don't offer this as a be-all and end-all answer to Larry Vaught's question.  Very few questions in life can be answered as simply as this, and I would not be at all surprised to learn that Coach Smith's dislike of recruiting, if accurate, had a dramatic impact on his recruiting success at Kentucky.  Left unexamined is Smith's clear preference for developing a surrogate father relationship with his players, which unlike his alleged reluctance to recruit, was obvious to everyone.  Such relationships take a great deal of time to develop and nurture, and Patrick Patterson was the perfect case study in that process.

In contrast, Gillispie prefers to recruit in a much more traditional way.  He isn't trying to establish a surrogate father relationship with his recruits, or lure them with the promise of family and personal development.  His lure is the lure of victory, the siren's song of promised glory.  Both methods have things to recommend them, but one thing is certain - Kentucky fans have taken more to Gillispie's style than they ever did to that of Smith, and it seems a better fit for our state and for our fans.  Make no mistake, UK fans have never confused themselves with the elitists that prowl the campuses of Duke and Stanford, so sticking to simple, straightforward things like winning ball games will play well here.

So in summary, Coach Smith was a complex person in his interactions with his players, the media, the fans and the way he ran his basketball team.   Coach Gillispie, on the other hand, is much simpler - his obsessive attention to his profession, his straightforward talk and style, and his rather conventional approach to the game all speak of a man who believes that K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) are words to live by.

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Warren
Has commited to Baylor

by UK44 on Jul 1, 2007 8:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm really taken aback
by his commitment to Baylor.  Marc Maggard has an interview up at his site, getting his reaction and the reaction from Rotnei Clark.

Interesting that Warren has twice given verbal commitments, only to have his mom veto the choices both times.  Wonder if that may happen again.

by piketaylor on Jul 1, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good post
Good post, Tru. I'll quibble with one point, though. While I wouldn't accuse Tubby of being lazy, I don't think there's any question that Billy is outworking him. I used to get jealous of the stories we'd hear from the recruiting trail and the summer camps, about guys like Donovan and Roy Williams being EVERYWHERE, while Tubby & staff were often nowhere to be seen. After so many years of these stories, there was too much smoke for there to not be at least a little fire.

Now, we hear those same stories about BG: visiting recruits in multiple states in one day, hosting a half-dozen players in one weekend, out-texting every teenager in America, and so on.

Whatever the reasons or motives, Tubby was ultimately negligent in recruiting. There's no excuse to not bring in top-shelf talent to a program like UK, and BG is showing what is possible when you up the work quotient.

by dave on Jul 2, 2007 7:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I do believe ...
that Gillispie is outworking Smith -- Gillispie is outworking every Division I coach in the United States right now.

I don't believe Smith was negligent, that was really one of the points I was making. I think his style was simply different, and what he looked for was different. Smith's style did not fit Kentucky particularly well, and Gillispie is a much better fit, especially as far as the fans are concerned.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time will tell...
... whether Tubby's "style" fits anywhere in a BCS-level school.  I'm of the wait-and-see opinion on just what he'll be able to accomplish at Gopherland.  

Sure, he got it done at Tulsa and at Georgia, but he was young and hungry.  Also, he never stayed at those schools long enough to have his recruiting take full effect.  

I wish him all the success in the world, but unless he changes "all of the above" reasons you listed as possible failure points during his time at UK, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being the Coach/Athletic Director at High Point in 5 years from now.

by vickster3 on Jul 2, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different style
It may merely be a different style... but whatever it is... I like it!

If UK fans are this excited in the summer months, can you even imagine how electric it will be at Rupp arena for Midnight Madness?  The thought of the reception BCG will get that night gives me chills just thinking about it.  I don't know if that falls in a dead period for recruiting or not, but if it doesn't I'm sure he'll have the top recruits in the country there for it.

by chirop1 on Jul 2, 2007 7:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like it, too ...
no question about it.  It helps generate a buzz around the program that has been missing for a while.

I am excited about Big Blue Madness as well.  I have no doubt Coach Gillispie will use that event to its fullest possible effect.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What will Gillispie do with his time?
In a shade over 3 months he's already nearly filled out the next 3 recruiting classes!  It makes me wonder what he's going to do with his time once he gets so far ahead in recruiting that he is essentially forced to wait until he can do more.

Maybe he'll start playing a college bb video game and do more recruiting there.

Looking for a rock to wind a piece of string around.

by JLeverenz on Jul 2, 2007 11:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Middle school
I am not joking when I say that he really will start scouting middle schoolers. He may not be offering them but I am sure he is tlaking to them and scouting them.

by davw83 on Jul 2, 2007 11:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

10
Plus I dont think he will quit on the 10 class until those letters are signed. He will keep in contact with 2010 recruits in case we lose one of our verbals.

by davw83 on Jul 2, 2007 11:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Confused
I'm a little confused.  You poo-poo the idea that recruits may not have liked Tubby's "style," yet the end of your article articulates just why people say that top recruits did not want to come to UK.

I don't think there is any question that Tubby did not like recruiting.  But I also think that major reason for this was that most players did not want to come to UK.  I mean, every high school "star" be it a three star nobody or a McBurger boy, thinks they are going to play in the NBA someday.  If you think you are going to play in the NBA, why would you be interested in spending 4 years perfecting the flex offense or the ball-line defense, when it is highly doubtful you will ever see such things in the NBA, at least not in the rigid forms Tubby employs?  

Moreover, these systems are designed to showcase teamwork, not raw athletic ability.  These systems create great teams, not great stars.  High school stars want to get drafted.  Look at the last few drafts.  Who is more likely to get drafted high, or at all?  Not the 4 year teamwork guys, but the guys who have raw talent.  Why?  Because you can teach basketball, but you can't teach genetics.  You and I know that the scouts can probably see athletic ability no matter what systems they play in.  But the NBA is not just interested in the best athletes.  The guys that get hyped up in college and are already stars may sell more tickets than an equally gifted player who plays his role on his team.

I guess I just thought it was common knowledge that top players were usually less than interested in playing Tubby's systems.  Yes, Tubby doesn't like to recruit, but I think this is the symptom of his inability to attract top talent.  I think he simply did not go after players unless they showed some interest in committing themselves to him.  

I always believed in Tubby's ability to coach.  The people who think Tubby is a bad coach do not understand basketball.  With the right kind of players his teams have the ability to compete with any other team in any given game.  His systems are designed to allow lesser talented teams to beat highly talented, but less cohesive teams.  However, ultimately his style never truly worked for UK.  Kentucky fans don't want to the ability to beat the top team, we want to be the top team.  To accomplish such a feat requires more than teamwork, it requires the athletic ability to make teamwork pay off in high dividends.  For reference on the effects of high levels of both talent and teamwork see UF, 2005-2007.

by senowen on Jul 2, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you misunderstood me ...
I didn't "poo poo" the idea that recruits may not have liked his style -- I am not convinced that it is so, and there is little evidence to support it.  However, there is evidence that many stud recruits weren't comfortable with his system.

It is more likely that Smith was finding it increasingly difficult to sell the idea that most players simply couldn't come in and start at Kentucky -- the learning curve was too steep.  I believe he was honest about this, and the result was, the studs wanted to be elsewhere where they had a chance to play right away, and wouldn't have to mess with a steep learning curve.

Smith preferred players who fit his style, which is to say, players willing to work until they "got it".  Gillispie's style does not require as specific fit -- it is more straightforward and has a shallower learning curve.  That gives Gillispie considerably more latitude than Smith, due to Smith's own self-imposed limitations.

It also is easier to sell Gillispie's system, because he can honestly suggest that playing major minutes right away is a real good possibility.  Smith could not say that in good conscience, because it patently wasn't true -- even such excellent freshmen as Meeks and Hayes spent lots of their early freshman season on the pine.  Studs are not willing to do that, and that was what hurt Smith's chances as much as anything.

Smith's system did work, but because he limited himself, it was always possible for UK to run into teams that were superior athletically. Athletic teams can rely on athleticism when their teamwork and execution are less than perfect (pretty much what you are saying above). Less athletic teams have to execute well nearly every game.

For some reason, Smith could rarely recruit enough athleticism without compromising fit, something he appeared unwilling to do.  There were some exceptions (Rondo, clearly, and Morris), but not many.

I also believe, but didn't really explore, my opinion that Smith would not recruit well in situations where he couldn't get close to the family.  He seemed to need a level of comfort with the recruit's family, and if he couldn't get it, I think they got a less than ideal impression of him.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Warren to Baylor?
So what's the story on this?  I saw the comment at the top of the page here, but never really read much else about it.  I bet Clarke is really re-thinking the "package deal" arrangement if Warren runs off to Baylor.  LOL.

And I guess I hadn't heard anything about his mom vetoing previous commitments.

Is there an interesting story here, or is it just an example of a kid choosing to go somewhere out of the limelight?  

by chirop1 on Jul 2, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's out there ...
But Rivals and Scout have yet to comment on it for some reason.  They both show him as uncommitted.

I don't quite know what to make of it.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just read ...
over on KSR that his mother told everyone he was *not* committed to Baylor.

Kids.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Warren
Per KSR Warren's Mom stated that Willie talks too much and isnt commited to Baylor and he will be giving no more interviews until the final school is chosen and signed with.

Seems to me like I wouldnt want a player that shady no that he has verbaled and decommited 3 times if I were BCG. We are already stacked at the 2 spot and that is what Warren is, not a point guard.

by davw83 on Jul 2, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah ...
I was just thinking the same thing.  This guy is losing me with weirdness.

How do you tell people you are committing to not one, not two but three different schools, and be wrong every time?

WTF?  Either the kid is confused, or he is trying to play mind games.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 2, 2007 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um .. .
Maybe he's just a 16-year-old kid and he's, understandably, impressed when a legion of adults lick his feet every time he walks?

Let's not start attacking teenagers because the system we worship is overzealous.

C'mon.

The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Jul 3, 2007 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DEAD ON!
When I was his age I went to UK for three weeks, dropped out, applied and got accepted to the Art Institute in Atlanta, then switched to the Savannah School of Design and in the last week before leaving town, I switched and went to a school in Ohio to become a music recording engineer. In the span of 18 months I went from High School to working audio for Monday Night Football and playing in a jam band. Oh to be young and dumb again.

If you are worried about him, read into the fact that Big Momma just shut him down until they sign.

by wilson452 on Jul 3, 2007 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still weird ...
to me. But as you say, he is young, and I won't suggest I didn't do weird things when I was 16.

by Truzenzuzex on Jul 3, 2007 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nail on the head
     I believe that Senowen has stated the facts very well. I agree that no recruit who has his dreams set on the NBA and it's $$$'s, is willing to ride the pine for a year and a half averaging 45 sec. a game learning ball line defense. I still am amazed at how quickly that BCG has turned the Tide on recruiting. The man hasn't even coached his first game at the helm of the Big Blue Nation and has already won 90% of the fans over. Go Big Blue!!!

by Idiod on Jul 2, 2007 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Warren
So I wonder what the deal is... just a kid who talks too much?  Or a "Mitch Mustain MoM" who can't keep her nose out of everything.  

Either way, it might throw up red flags.

by chirop1 on Jul 3, 2007 12:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sixtteen year olds
Sixteen year olds are capable of making sound decisions. I have a couple friends who went to about 4-5 different colleges in just a few years but I have many more who picked one and stuck with it. I think his verbals are suggestive of a flighty personality rather than his age and dont think I would want that if I were coach. no one is attacking this kid we are just critiqueing his decision making skills.

by davw83 on Jul 3, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Most likely ....
 the kid is just a little overwhelmed. I doubt he's ever had this much attetion and probably is a little naive. He wants to trust everybody and just jump on the first bandwagon that comes along. This is a developmental trait, but it is  related to experience, not age. Some people have enough experience at 12 to make these decisions, but I've known 25 year olds that were still too sheltered and naive to make a decision like this. Hence, it's about life experience.

by blueblood on Jul 3, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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