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Catching up on recruiting

Recruiting is one of those things we cover sporadically at A Sea of Blue, because other sites do a much better job and are better attuned to that subject.  But with that said, I think it is fairly important every now and then to take a look at what is happening, and what it might mean for Kentucky's future players.  So what I will do now is run down the current list of basketball recruits for Kentucky and discuss each one in a bit more detail, including my impression of where we stand with them.  Keep in mind, I am not a recruiting guru and don't play one on the Internet.  Therefore, if someone who is a recruiting guru (or does play one on the Internet) disagrees with  my take, I won't be offended if you believe them and not me.

So here is the main list am aware of, and their current status.  I have left off a few people I consider to be unlikely except as backup plans:

  • Josh Harrellson, 6'9" 250# F/C from Southwestern Illinois Community College - Harrellson was the guy who was originally committed by NLOI to Western Illinois University.  After it became known that Harrellson was seeking his release from WIU, the athletic department there decided to play hardball and would not release him from his NLOI, basically making it impossible for him to be directly recruited by any D-1 school.

    After much wringing of hands and some scathing articles in the press, WIU relented and has now released Harrellson.  Harrellson has since been released and is working on scheduling a visit with Kentucky.  Other potential suitors include Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois and Indiana.  I have also seen Minnesota out there somewhere as being interested.

    Opinion is mixed on Harrellson's skill, but the majority seem to be leaning to the idea that he is a skilled player.   He had a great year at SWIC, and seems to be one of those big guys with a face-up game.  His size would certainly be a welcome addition to our front court.  At this moment, Kentucky appears to be the leader for his services, although he is said to be taking several visits.  Tom Crean's recent interest is likely to create a recruiting battle between the new Indiana coach and Coach Gillispie.

  • Ater Majok, 6'10", 220# F/C from Sudan via American International School in Australia.  Majok is said to be looking at a long list of schools including UConn, Baylor, Kansas, Memphis, and UCLA.  Right now, UConn appears to be the leader for his services.  Majok is slated to play in the Derby Festival Classic where his skills will be on display.

    Majok is a long, athletic big man who is said to be very active on the floor, challenging shots and able to play a face-up game.  He runs the floor well, but is still somewhat raw in his skill set for a big man.  Most analysts think he will wind up playing for Jim Calhoun, however.  UK could definitely use the services of this talented international player.

  • Paul McCoy, 5'11", 175# PG from Portland, Oregon.  McCoy is a speedy, athletic two-sport (basketball, football) star in Oregon.  McCoy originally signed with Pepperdine, but got out of his LOI and reopened his recruitment.  Other parties interested in McCoy's services include Virgina, Washington State, Tennessee, SMU, and Cincinnati, among others.

    McCoy wants to be a pass-first point guard who happens to have explosive scoring ability.  He is said to be able to create his own shot and get to the rim.  McCoy will also be displaying his skills in the Derby Festival Classic, and after that, he will be making an official visit to the UK campus.  It is not impossible that McCoy could commit right after his visit, as he is very high on Kentucky and has yet to meet Coach Gillispie.  Glynn Cyprien has taken the point on McCoy's recruitment.

    In my opinion, Kentucky needs a speedy point like McCoy.  After having lost Bradley and Crawford, we need a guard who is going to take the ball to the basket, and my take on McCoy is that he fits that bill perfectly.  His size will be a slight defensive liability, but his quickness and overall athleticism should more than make up for it.

  • Verdell Jones, 6'4", 160# PG from Champaign, Illinois.  Jones is a long, lean combo guard who can handle the ball and is a very good passer.  He is also said to possess a nice perimeter shot, but others say that his shooting is not that good.  Other suitors include Minnesota, Indiana, Oklahoma, West Virgina and Virginia.

    Jones has been on UK's radar a long, long time.  He is one of the better guards left on the board, and could help the Cats replace some of what has been lost to graduation this year, particularly defensively.  He is said to be coachable and unselfish.  It looks to me like the first player to commit between Jones and McCoy could be the winner of the PG scholarship for this year, but who really knows?  Jones is said to have an offer by Rivals, but some say otherwise.

  • Roderick Flemmings, 6'7#, 210# SF from Weatherford Community College in Texas.  Flemings is said to be a sensational scorer, and many Kentucky fans think that he would make us forget all about the matriculation of Scotty Hopson to Tennessee.  Other suitors include UConn and West Virginia.

    Flemings is the kind of player every school needs -- a scoring wing.  He has decent size at 6'7", is long-armed and athletic.  He would seem to fit the bill for Gillispie's desire to bring on a player who can put the ball into the basket.  Flemings was the POY in the North Texas Junior College Athletic Association.  He has recently said that he would consider committing immediately to Kentucky during his visit, which is scheduled for this weekend.  There have been some who are concerned about his eligibility gradewise, but most now believe he is or will soon be fully qualified.

    Flemings has also entertained the possibility of entering the NBA draft, and will be working out for a couple of NBA teams, according to him.  However, his lack of D-1 experience make a direct entry into the NBA from junior college an unlikely scenario.

  • Maurice Sutton, 6'10", 210# from Upper Marlboro, Maryland.  Sutton is a long, lean big man similar in body type to Perry Stevenson.  Like Stevenson, Sutton is considered to be an excellent shot-blocker and a good rebounder.  He is said to have good hands and run the floor very well, and averaged near triple-double numbers in high school.  Offensively, though, he is considered to be very raw.  At this moment, Rivals has Kentucky listed as the only school for Sutton, although other services include such suitors as LaSalle, Seton Hall, South Florida and Marquette.

    Most scouts see Sutton as a late bloomer, and my take is that he is that he could help us inside, but probably not as much as Harrellson or Majok.  Defensively, he would give us some very interesting possible lineups and make it extremely difficult for an offense to score inside.  He looks to be the best defensive big man of the lot, and with the possible exception of Majok, have the most upside potential. 

    Most observers believe that Sutton will commit to Kentucky as soon as he has an offer, if he ever gets one.  He is also slated to play in the Derby Festival Classic, and my feeling is that the DFC could be his "try out" for UK.  If Gillispie likes what he sees, he may well go ahead and take the bird that looks to be in hand.  But Harrellson, and possibly Majok, may complicate the possibility of Sutton being offered a scholarship at UK unless he tears it up in Freedom Hall.

So that's how recruiting looks to me at the moment.  There are other possibilities and other players for 2008 with UK on their list, but I think most of them are backup plans to what I have just laid out.  We have only 2one remaining scholarship available for 2008 barring a transfer or other shuffling around.  By my count, we have 6 players that we could use, although some of them may be mutually exclusive.  My guess is that we will see some commitments happen shortly after the Derby Festival Classic, and possibly before.  The shape of the 2009 Wildcats won't be known for a while yet, but I think some of these six guys are likely to make up the remainder of our class.

Update [2008-4-12 13:27:41 by Truzenzuzex]:  Interesting comments here on Indiana's involvement with Harrellson.

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when is signing day?
What are the dates for LOIs to signed?

by mateotemprano on Apr 10, 2008 10:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ideal haul?

As we did in the fall, I'd like to see who my fellow fans would consider the "ideal gets" with the schollys we have remaining. I probably know much less about recruiting than Tru, and certainly know much less than Coach G., but from what I've read about these guys here and on Matt Jones' site, I think the ideal "gets" here are McCoy and Flemings. A PG who can play with the SEC speedsters and another scorer seem to be our two main needs, and these look like the best way to fill them.

There has also been a lot of speculation about one transfer, presumed to be Mike Williams or (if he gets a medical redshirt season) Jared Carter. IMO, if Carter were going, he'd have gone by now, but if Williams transfers, I'd love to see us get Sutton too. Never underestimate the power of a guy who wants to be a Wildcat. If Williams doesn't transfer, I hope he's getting better. I feel bad for the guy because he never gets to play, but Coach G. knows best on that.

So, who do you want?

by Acdixon on Apr 10, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Carter transfers...
and we get Flemings, McCoy, and Harrellson.  If Carter couldn't get playing time after Patterson got hurt, he is never going to be able to play significant minutes.

by goinss1 on Apr 10, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd like
McCoy and Flemmings to help us out with the loss of scoring in Bradley and Crawford.  If we have a transfer take place I'd like to get Sutton because he could be around longer than the other potential "big men."  I think he could learn alot from both Patterson and Stevenson and could remain on the roster for us when we take that big hit of the current sophomore class graduating.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 10, 2008 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Too many to pick
I cant give you two but my top three in no order would be Mccoy, Flemings, and Harrelson.

We could probably use any of the six on the board with the exception of Jones. I have heard he is a good D-1 prospect but will take a few years to really be able to contribute. I like the Juco route bringing in guys who are going to be able to help right away in theory anyway.

Mccoy and flemings would replace the two positions we lost but I have heard that Harrelson can put the ball in the basket and has a nice jumper. If thats true it could pay off big for Patterson as Harrelson could pull a big away from the basket. I have faith that Perry's jumper will improve but one more big man can never hurt.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 10, 2008 11:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

sutton
tru, you mentioned marquette is in line for his services. is that the current marquette, or do we include indiana on that list as well?
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Apr 10, 2008 11:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Need a big man
We still need a big man (5/4) mostly - and one who can play NOW.  2 guys (Stevenson and Patterson) who can play is just not enough, IMHO.  If one of them gets in foul trouble, we need at least someone who can sub in and not lose too much skill at that position.

We already have a couple of guards and a few guard-forward combo guys (assuming Meeks gets healthy), so I think our need for a big man is more acute.

So, I'll take Harrellson as a very dominant first, because he's ready to play and score.  Majok and Sutton are projects - but you never know, Billy G could get them to bloom.  Next choice would be Flemmings - he has pretty good height and could play the 4 in an emergency, and we do need a scorer.

Jones sounds OK.  I'd rather have another shooter/scoring guard than another point.

I haven't seen McCoy play, but he had better be fabulous for us to sign him at 5'11".

by EEWildcat on Apr 10, 2008 12:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

McCoy ...
might not be "fabulous," but he is more than capable of playing point in the SEC.

He has a strong body and is very (read: even more than Bradley") athletic.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 10, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wish List....
Assuming all of these fine young men picked UK right now, (hello, why would they not!), and assuming they all fit in with BCG's style of play & work ethic, here is who I would want Gillispie and Co. to choose:

I too would go with Harrellson first and foremost.  Like others here, I think he would make an immediate and needed impact down low.  Patrick is proven, and I have no doubt that Perry and AJ will continue to improve under Gillispie. But for me, the more big men you can get closer to the basket the better - If I remember correctly we didn't do so hot in rebounding last year.  Ya, according to this site, we were not in the top 101 last season --
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/leaders?cat=teamrbd&type=1&groupId=50&seasonType=2&sea sonYear=2008  
And I think I read somewhere that Harrellson could provide an occasional outside jumper as well.

As for the F position, I would consider Meeks, Harris, Miller, Galloway and Liggins to be a pretty a decent list.

The only glaring hole for me is at the point guard position.  Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, the only PG possibilities on our current roster are Porter and Jasper -- surely I am missing someone?
So I guess I would go with Jones as my second pick, I haven't seen any video on him, but McCoy's size is a big concern for me.

Ah, recruiting speculation, what fun!

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Open scholarships for 2008-09 UK Mens Basketball
Right now, UK only has one open athletic (basketball) scholarship for its 2008-09.  Below is the makeup of the 2008-09 team as is currently stands:

Basketball Scholarship Players (with a total of only 13 allowed on the team):

  1. Carter - Senior
  2. Galloway - Junior
  3. Harris - Junior
  4. Jasper - Junior
  5. Meeks - Junior
  6. Porter - Junior
  7. Stevenson - Junior
  8. Patterson - Sophomore
  9. Stewart - Sophomore
  10. Williams - Sophomore
  11. Liggins - Freshman
  12. Miller - Freshman
  13. OPEN
Walk-Ons:
  1. Coury - Junior
  2. Krebs - Junior
  3. Perry - Junior
  4. Scherbenske - Junior
  5. Delph - Freshman
  6. Slone - Freshman

by woodeaglevigil on Apr 10, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You're right ...
I forgot about Galloway.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 10, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good catch
I think the list of recruits is still so long because of questions about transfer(s) and Liggins' eligibility. Wonder if any of the guys could forfeit a basketball scholarship and make it on an academic or need-based scholarship, a la Marquis Estill's last year? Jasper and Meeks both made SEC Academic Honor Roll

by Acdixon on Apr 10, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Academic Scholarships
One question I've always had about this... how easy is it to fudge this?  For example, when I was graduating high school I was looking at a school in a lower division that does not give athletic scholarships... however, if I had decided to swim for this school, it would be arranged for me to get some extra money.  I was under the impression it would be academic scholarships and grants.  

I guess my question is, lets say "Basketball Forward A" meets all the academic criteria for a scholarship... but the scholarship is generally competitive, would a school give a guy like "Basketball Forward A" a more advantageous look at an academic scholarship?

Similarly, there were tons of scholarships that went unclaimed when I was in school.  Things with absurd qualifications like "A student from Monkey's Eyebrow (its a real town in Western KY btw) who is planning on majoring in ancient philosophy with plans of attending law school at Purdue."  Could a group of boosters sponsor a scholarship with qualifications that all applicants must be walk-ons for the basketball team?

by chirop1 on Apr 10, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very creative
You had some interesting suggestions for an atypical approach to awarding a scholarship. I'd love to hear if these are actually do-able.
And I haven't lived in KY in 20+ years, but I remember Monkey's Eyebrow.
Also, for some of the scholarship players we all wish would leave, how does a school go about convincing them it would be in their best interest? I am assuming that since a scholarship offer is a contract, UK is legally (and ethically) obligated to honor the scholarships it extends, no matter how poor the player turns out to be...yes? no?

by cat woman on Apr 10, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Monkey's Eyebrow
Is not far from Possum Trot. (Another real name)

by olddoc on Apr 10, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

opening up scholarships
I am certainly not a lawyer, but I wouldn't think that a university could just "take away" a player's scholarship for poor on-the-court performance.

However, if the player fails to meet the academic requirements or violates the rules, that is another story.  

My best guess would be to gently suggest that the scholarship player in question join a fraternity in hopes that he would violate the off-the-court rules by displaying inappropriate behavior, or failure to make class.   : )

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shollies
Athletic scholarships are renewable on a year-to-year basis.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 10, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Ken.
So basically, right now we think we have only one scholarship to offer.  In reality, BCG can choose not to renew a scholarship for a player on the current roster in order to make room for a new player.  And as wilson points out below, BCG could also possibly reduce the # of full rides and spread the wealth in order to get more players.  

Wow, very interesting stuff.  

Boy, our roster could look DRASTICALLY different in a few weeks.

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but ...
College basketball coaches virtually never non-renew a scholarship for a player in good academic standing and team standing.

Less that hoped-for performance, as long as it isn't simply lack of effort, is not seen as a reason to non-renew.

Don't look for that to happen.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 10, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True Tru
There is something very untoward about a coach who basically takes a scholarship away from a kid, and his family, for any other reason than bad behavior.

Gillispie has many tools at his disposal with which to circumvent the scholarship limits; grant-in-aids, academic schollies, many of the current players, as well as prospective players, may qualify for full financial aid.

This quandary seems to creep up every so often, and it always seems to work out.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 10, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a minute...
See, you led me astray.......

Just joking!  : )

I believe BCG is human first, ruthless recruiter second.

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Know Someone Who Lost His Basketball Scholarship
Maryland. Summer of 1969. Coaching change. New coach pulled the scholarship of an incoming freshman player in August that year. Player was all set to attend but was told No, Thanks.

The player's name was Orlando (Tubby) Smith. He later found fame and fortune in another fashion.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately ...
pulling incoming freshmen's scholarship offer before they get to campus is not as infrequent as pulling it after they have been at school for a year.

Of course, in Smith's day, they didn't have the National Letter of Intent program.

Bobby Petrino pulled Brad Durham's offer a couple of years ago.  That was football, but it happens in basketball sometimes as well.  Unethical, in my book.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 12, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NLOI Started In Mid 1960's
Tubby signed NLOI with Maryland in 1969.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vey sensitive subject
As intense UK fans we have to remember that college sports are not a professional business. Sure, to the school and athletics department basketball and football are cash cows, but we have to be ethically responsible to the kids involved.

If the program makes a commitment to a young man or woman, then they should be prepared to honor it regardless of on-field results. Only if the player decides leaving is in his/her best interest should the program get involved.

I am just as guilty as anyone in sometimes hoping that certain players would transfer and open up room for someone hopefully better. As much as we love results here at UK we cannot forsake young men and women who have been given a promise by the University.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Apr 10, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This discussion
I remember having this discussion last year when it was obvious that Gillispie was handing out scholarships like they were candy to every kid from grades 9-12 who ranked somewhere in the top 50 on rivals.  It was a hot debate about "recruiting over" existing players.

You are right that the university should honor its commitments to its athletes.  There is, however, precedent in the not-too-distant past.  Remember the none-to-subtle way that Pitino pushed Rodrick Rhodes out the door to make room for Ron Mercer?  It probably wasn't right then... and its  not right today.  But it does happen.

by chirop1 on Apr 10, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scholarships are not forever
I am almost certain that there are different levels like full rides and partials and I think they are annually renewed and last one year at a time. It sucks but a coach may be free to yank at any time. A- Holes! Each sport gets an allotment and maximum volume. Basketball gets a total of money that equals 13 full rides. Can they be split to 26 guys getting half rides?? Someone even posted an article a few weeks back about how baseball has such small amount that guys can get 10% a year or 25 etc. but rarely 100% and the total team equals up to the maximum. Oh well, BeeGee will find a way!

by wilson452 on Apr 10, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Now that you bring it up, I am sure they split up scholarships for basketball between multiple players, because they do it in other sports.

But the point about how many years a scholarship covers is interesting...I wonder how many 4-year rides there are on the current roster and how many are shorter in duration...wonder who knows the answer to this?

by cat woman on Apr 10, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Macy
Kyle Macy "got rid" of several players when he took over the Morehead program.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 10, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SELF TO STAY AT KANSAS
It just came across espnews that Bill Self has looked at the mountain of money waiting for him at OSU, and has turned his back on it to stay a Jayhawk.

Also, really good news for UK!!! Billy Gillispie is "absolutely not a prospect for the OSU job." This coming from Doug Gottlieb who had just talked with the OSU AD. The reason is because of Clydes DUI problems in the past and them not wanting another Eddie Sutton.

Thank God for DUI's... I guess.

Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on Apr 10, 2008 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stallings.....
Someone who there has been no talk about on anyones list is Kevin Stallings....I would be suprised if he isn't considered.  I really think he could be the next OSU coach.
C....A....T....S CATS CATS CATS

by MartinGolf9 on Apr 10, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
Stallings would be a really good fit there becaause he is much too good of a coach to be stuck at Vandy.
Neil Carter

by KingKentucky on Apr 10, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction
Coach Gillispie does not actually have any DUI's on his record.  Technically, I believe there is just a reckless driving charge.  

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If as gotlieb says...
Ok St. actually said that is why they wouldn't pursue Gillispie, I think that shows a real lack of class.  They are entitled to not go after him for whatever reason they choose but there was really no reason to rub his face in past mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, I am tickled to death they are not making him "an offer he can't refuse," I just think if they didn't want him, then there was no need to even bring him up in the conversation.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 10, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Randolph Morris rule
Have you seen how many kids are leaving school early for the draft without hiring an agent?

Does the school have to hold that scholly for that kid if he goes undrafted?

by tiger85 on Apr 10, 2008 6:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The kids who...
are declaring for the draft w/o hiring and agent are merely "testing" the market to see where they might get drafted.  First round picks get the guaranteed dollars so if a kid has good workouts and it looks like he may go high he will go ahead and hire an agent and make the jump.  On the flip side if his stock doesn't appear to be all that high, he returns to school w/o having messed up his eligibilty.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken Morris was able to be snatched up as a free agent because he never pulled out of the draft.  Unfortunately for him at the time, he was passed over by EVERY team out there.  Since he never technically hired an agent, he was able to return to UK.  He did however have an agency set up a workout or two for him and the NCAA made him set out a bunch of games before his status was completely restored.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 10, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know all that...
but is the school still entitled to hold the scholarship for that athlete?

by tiger85 on Apr 11, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry,
thought I was helping.

I could be wrong but I would think the school would have the right to decide it on a case by case basis.

Didn't something like that happen to Damien Wilkins at N.C. State a few years ago?  He tested the NBA waters then State kinda let it be known they didn't want him back so he transfered to Georgia?

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 11, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ford
I think Ford made the same decision I would have made.

Going to the Big East would have been a definite step up in conference affiliation, but the fact that Providence is at the bottom of the food chain makes it a less attractive job. Plus, he seems to have some mo jo working for him at UMass.

I wish him only the best.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 10, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who do we want?
in the spirit of idle speculation....some miscellaneous thoughts:
  1.  a point guard
  2.  somebody with a high assist to turnover ratio!
  3.  who(m?)ever BCG wants
I'd love to have a big guy who has high basketball IQ and is an excellent distributor and scorer -- somebody to draw a defender and to trade assists and buckets in the lane with PP.

It is very hard to know what we need most, because  I have no idea what we have already in Meeks and Liggins.  Will these guys take the court?  Will they take up 2 scholarships?  Will they be 2 great performers, or zero?  

For Meeks' sake, I really hope he gets well and plays well.  (And for our sake, too, I admit.)

If both those guys suit up and play, then I would want to add a big guy.  If neither of them do, then I'd want the best point guard we can get.

by johnr on Apr 10, 2008 8:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No joke
The first thought that hit me when the BCG / OSU talkfirst hit was "Wow, they would flirt with that kind of drinking game rumors again."

I do not believe BeeGee is what they say and frankly I hate to admit it but I have done the same thing and just never stopped by 5-O. Fess up how many of us have done stupid crap like that?

It is just bad PR. Like the Brooks violation from the 80's that popped up after he got here.

by wilson452 on Apr 10, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OK
Normally I wouldn't respond to the rumors about BCG, but I really respect your posts.  Besides, I highly doubt anyone else is going to respond.

BCG's reckless driving charge happened in 1999.  That was 9 years ago.  I think back to what I was doing 9 years ago and it was pretty reckless also.  I was of legal drinking age and my girlfriends and I were all about going out, chasing boys, and dabbling in tarot cards.  We were just sure they held the key to our future.  Obviously they didn't, but pretty funny stuff was revealed in those readings.  I could never judge someone else for something I myself have done (behaving recklessly), that would be pretty condescending of me.  My point is that I believe people change, I changed.  Heck, my husband and I, our family and our friends still enjoy cocktails.  It is a part of our life -- we are just more responsible now.

In BCG's case I am convinced he still enjoys cocktails, but I believe he is more responsible.  Unfortunately for him, the drinking issue will never go away completely, but I believe time and wins will help people at least push it to the back of their minds.
Is he perfect? No. And personally that's one of the reasons I like him.  I consider myself much more interesting because of my imperfection.

by BigSkyCat on Apr 10, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Responsible..YES!
I am probably very much up the ladder in years...but I always loved my cocktails as did my hubby.

Things change as one gets older, the legal limit changes .)! that was a pisser as I always drove us around for so many years to leave this dry county and go about 20 miles away to get a nice meal with a drink LOL.

I am a Catholic amongst a sea of Baptists...LOL

I wanna go home to my WET county!

by kykat51 on Apr 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clarification
I normally would not comment about Gillispie'a past run-ins with the police, but I feel I can offer some clarification to some on the unfortunate events.

The quotes are taken from a Herald-Leader article:

In Tulsa, OK, in '99, Gillispie was arested for suspected "DUI and improper use of a lane".

He "plead guilty to reckless driving, and all other charges were dropped".

In El Paso, TX in January '03( his first year at UTEP) Gillispie was pulled over for "driving the wrong way down a one way street".

He was "given several field sobriety tests", but "refused a breathalyzer test". He offered the officers his "blood" for a "blood test", which is more accurate than a breathalyzer, but the officers refused.

He also gave the officers his credit card instead of his license.

He told police he was "new in town", and didn't "know the streets".

He was taken into custody, and released four hours later.

The Police Chief the next day asked the District Attorney to review the case. After conducting a brief investigation the DA issued an arrest warrant for Gillispie.

Gillispie "admitted to drinking that night, but toxicologists determined that based on Gillispie's height, weight, and the number of drinks he consumed over several hours, it was unlikely Gillispie was drunk when he was pulled over".

The charges were dropped in June of '03.

Gillispie "wrote over 1,000 handwritten letters to UTEP season ticket holders apologizing for bringing any bad publicity to the school or the basketball program".

by Ken Howlett on Apr 11, 2008 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am glad you laid facts down.
These are facts and rumors are the cancerous growths on the backs of facts. I honestly never really cared. Sutton had way too many "brushes" and several reported things leading up to the bad parking job his last day as OSU coach.

My only point was that there are 2 documented cases (fact) and countless rumors (also a fact. not the content but that there are rumors) If I had just gotten rid of the Suttons I would not want that invited back to my program true or not.

BeeGee is the man and I could care less about his free time (HA)

I am just glad they are not gunning for him!

by wilson452 on Apr 11, 2008 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Confusion
I just wanted to clarify exactly what happened because there seemed to be some confusion among some fans about the events.

I took all of the information from an article in the Herald-Leader.

Hopefully, this is the last time we will have to "speak" of these behavioral issues.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 11, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow,
That must have taken quite a while....thanks.

next time just link the article, save your precious time for more enjoyable things!   ; )

by BigSkyCat on Apr 11, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
I should have linked, but for some reason I didn't even think about doing that.

But no,it didn't take very long, only 2-3 hours...just kidding :)

by Ken Howlett on Apr 11, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see..
UK pick up #1 Harrellson and #2 McCoy.

Just my opinion, but an impact big to go along with P Pat and Stevenson would be a huge need filled.  If the kid is as good as advertised and could help right away that would be great.  Let's face it, I think kansas just proved it doesn't hurt to have multiple bigs who can play.  

As for McCoy, a small, speedy, athletically gifted point would be a godsend in the SEC.  To many times the past few years teams inside and out of the conference hurt us with quick guards that got to the lane way to easily.  Reguarding his size, I remember a guy by the name Ford who was pretty good and was a bit height challenged.

Another interesting pickup may be Majok.  I remember reading a good Sports Illustrated article on Ogilvy and a kid out west at St. Marys, they both hail from Austrailia and trained at AIS.  It's a pretty interesting set up there where kids are fed basketball at the academy and then attend a local public school.  More and more kids coming out of there are being noticed by American universities.  Not only that, it would always be great to snag one away from Calhoun at uconn.  :)

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 10, 2008 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Then you remember...
Travis Ford had an amazingly great year in 1993 (which included my favorite UK game of all time, UK beating Tennessee 101-40 in the last SEC tournament in Rupp).  However, when it came to NCAA tournament time, he was totally dominated by the long Jalen Rose, going 3/10 from the field in 45 minutes of play to a Wildcats' OT loss in the Final Four.  A few more inches of height may have meant one more basket and the win (and probably a championship banner)

I'd just like to see our players have the best chance out of the gate.  I enjoy watching games more where it's up to the heart, effort, and preparation of the player, where they're not doomed from a massive height mismatch.  (Unless we're the ones with the massive height advantage, that is...)

OTOH, McCoy sounds like more of a short Wayne Turner than a Travis Ford.  And of course Turner was awesome.  I just think you'd better be awesome at that height with players getting as big as they are these days.

The upside is, he's a football recruit too, so he's probably actually 5"11, not 5'9" listed at 5'11", like often happens.

by EEWildcat on Apr 10, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A decent point...
but how many teams have a Jalen Rose on hand?  If the SEC was stocked with 6'7" - 6'9" guards I would fully agree with you that he would be a liability.  That however is not the case and speed cetainly helps overcome a lot of other defencencies.  

Anyway, to each his/her own.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 11, 2008 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NCAA Championship goal
Personally, I don't really care about the SEC, I think as a top 5 program, we should set our goals on an NCAA championship.  There are a lot of long athletic players that can guard perimeter players throughout the field.

Anyway, not knocking the kid, I haven't even seen him play, he could be great.

by EEWildcat on Apr 11, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you...
on the goal being no less than a championship.  I only referenced the SEC because the majority of games are conference games.  The more games won + better seeding in tourney = easier road to final four = more banners hung.  :)

How's that for showing off the math skills!

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 11, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every NCAA Champion (At UK) Was SEC Champion
1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978, 1996, and 1998 teams were ALL SEC chmaps before becoming NCAA champs.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 11, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong
Not only are these statistics completely irrelevant to my point of "aiming higher than the SEC", but they're also incorrect.  So really I shouldn't respond, but I can't resist.  ;)

According to SEC rules, the SEC champion is the winner of the SEC tournament.  We're all familiar with the significance of the SEC champion because it is the team that gets the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.  This was discussed quite a bit when there was talk of canceling the SEC tournament this year due to the high winds in Atlanta.  The SEC gave the go-ahead to proceed so that it would have a champion and therefore a guaranteed seat in the NCAA tournament, because the regular season finisher could not be defined to be the champion by SEC rules.  In 1996, UK lost to Mississippi State in the SEC Tournament.  Thus, at least in 1996, Mississippi State was the SEC champion, and Kentucky was the NCAA champion.

Therefore, an SEC championship is neither sufficient nor necessary for an NCAA championship for an SEC team.

A more apropos set of statistics would be when UK won the SEC tournament, but didn't win the NCAA tournament - i.e., 1993 and probably 20+ other years.

by EEWildcat on Apr 11, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Wrong
SEC champion is determined by regular season play.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/TeamSECChampions.html

SECT champion gets NCAA bid (since 1979).

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/TeamSECTournamentChampions.html

There was no SECT played between 1953 and 1978. Was there no SEC champion those years???

(I love it when I'm right)

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2008 SEC Champion Listed As Tennessee
http://www.secsports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=3&change_well_id=1

See upper RH corner at link. SEC champion has # by the name (Tennessee).

Georgia was SECT winner but not SEC champion.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SEC List Of Champions
http://www.secsports.com/doc_lib/bkc_through_the_years.pdf

See Page 110 (linked). UK listed as 1996 champion, not Missisissippi State.

This link fropm official SEC website.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to the NCAA, not so
This is a worthless semantic argument we're having on an irrelevant topic.  But again I can't stop myself from replying.

So here's how the NCAA treats the "conference champions" from the official NCAA site:

...31 of which automatically qualify as conference champions...

Clearly, Georgia was this year's SEC champion by NCAA's rules or they wouldn't have made the tournament with their abysmal regular season record.

Read more here:

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/champadmin/basketball/d1_men/handbook/championship_structure_2008.pd f

I could find some more sources and do some more rules-lawyering here, but there's no point.

by EEWildcat on Apr 12, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we have the
alot of big guards that can handle the basketball. with jasper, liggins(assumming he qualifies), galloway on the team. we have lots of options to go with in the instance that the other team has a big guard.

by i got the blues on Apr 11, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Throwing a small speedy guard into the mix would be a good thing.  We would be able to give opponets different looks and create matchup problems.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 11, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we have a lot of guards...
...who can handle the basketball already, do we need another, and more competition for playing time (and accompanying dissent) at that slot?

Meanwhile, only 2 big men played quality minutes last year (and our best, Patrick Patterson has chronic ankle problems).  And we've only got one scholarship slot remaining.

So again, unless any 5'11" guy (again, not knocking McCoy, he may be great) is a really special player, we really need that scholarship for a big guy, IMHO.  Let's be honest, for every Travis Ford, there have been at least 5 undersized guys who have been totally ineffective against good defenders of reasonable size.

I think we are much more exposed to a team like this year's Indiana that has a stable of big bodies underneath that can push you around and wear you down.  So let's spend that last scholarship on a guy with some meat on his bones who can post up, block out, set screens, and put the ball in the hoop.

by EEWildcat on Apr 12, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel yeah....
...but my concern is the fact that UK doesn't have a true point. Jasper is certainly capable of playing the point, especially when his knee is 100%, but I thought he was affective on the wing last year. He adds another rebounder down low and he creates matchup nightmares from the 3 spot because he is usually quicker than his opponent.

Of course, his size creates matchup problems at the point also. He did have trouble defending smaller, quicker guards, but I think that is due to his knee not being competely healthy.

I don't think Gillispie can go wrong with signing the best available player, regardless of position, especially if he can put the ball in the basket. Kentucky needs point production...big time. Clyde is just crafty enough to deal with matchup problems from the defensive end. So I say add a scorer, any scorer.

That thought process may be simplistic, but I think it's on target considering UK's need to replace roughly 35 points per game.....and that's just to get them to the mid-60's. (No, I haven't forgotten about Meeks)

by Ken Howlett on Apr 12, 2008 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hardly...
point to Pattersons ankle problems as being chronic unless you are aware of this being a past issue while he was in high school.  Also, you fail to mention the fact that Jasper (combo guard) missed time with injuries and Meeks (2 guard) was unavailable for most of the season.

By the way, I am not sure if you read my original post or not, but I said given a choice, I would pick HARRELLSON #1.  McCoy would be my second choice to help offset the loss of Bradley.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 12, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
I was replying to "i love blue" here.  I understand your point and see we agree on #1.

And actually yes, Patrick Patterson has had ankle problems since high school.  In an interview following his injury, he revealed how he has experienced pain in his ankles and needed them to be iced following every game.  He talked about this having to be done in high school, and his instruction to the trainers that they continue the process at UK.  And it's both ankles - the ankle he had problems with earlier in the year is not the one that was fractured at the end of last season.

Jasper is my man and I like his game.  I don't want to jinx him talking about his health, but I think we already have a couple of guys in his mold coming in case things take a turn for the worse.

Ken makes an excellent point above about scoring.  We really need some scoring, pronto.  I think that is what we're missing most from Bradley.  I agree Meeks is our main health concern at this point, and would really like a shooting guard to back him up.  I didn't see that type of player in the mix, though.  I am hoping with a better inside presence we can clear some more space to give Jasper more time to shoot 3s and maybe get some more contribution from Michael Porter.

I just think #1 priority is getting a big man.  It's a lot easier to design offenses without having a penetrating super fast guard than it is with only 1 big man (due to foul trouble/injury), IMHO.

I think winning NCAA tournaments is about robustness.  Can one of your big men get in foul trouble and can you still win?  Can you have an injury and at least have someone to fill the slot?  Can you have a tall, fast defender defending your point guard and not totally get shut down?  I think you need to have a rotation that's all-purpose and robust and play it all year.  Yeah, it's nice to have some specialists like fast defensive specialists to frustrate oppenents' star guards.  And it's nice to have a 7'3" guy to frustrate teams' star big men (as used to great effectiveness by Tubby Smith).  But I think the first thing to go for is a robust core.

by EEWildcat on Apr 12, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops,
I meant I was replying to "i got the blues", sorry.

by EEWildcat on Apr 12, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who do we want?
Assuming Meeks and Patterson are healthy, and Liggins and Galloway make their grades UK's biggesst need in my opinion is a big man to aid Patterson and Stevenson down low. With that in mind, Roderick Flemings seems to be the most ready to contribute. But, Harrellson seems to be a late comer, which I like. His physique is the most college ready at 6'9 250.

Having not seen either player in person it's very difficult to determine which player would be the most beneficial to UK's needs.

Paul McCoy, while short in stature, may be the solution to UK's need for a true point, or lead guard. As Tru noted, his quickness and speed would be a welcome addition, and hopefully ease the loss of Bradley.

From what I've read it seems Sutton is aching to attend UK. He also seems the least ready to contribute right away. If AJ Stewart continues to improve though, the need for a major contributor may not be as imperative as earlier thought. I like Stewart's game, and with a year under his belt, next year may be a breakout year for him. Stay awake, AJ, stay awake.

If you stuck a gun to my head and made me pick two from the above list, I would go with Flemings because he's ready to rumble from day 1, and McCoy because of his quickness, and the fact that he is a true point, which other than Porter, UK does not possess.  

by Ken Howlett on Apr 10, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Other scholarships
I could be wrong (I can't access my copy of the NCAA manual because it is performing its important duty of leveling out my table), but surely one can't use need-based or academic scholarships to augment basketball scholarships.  Let's face it, a very large percentage of top notch recruits would qualify for a needs-based scholarship, so if it were that easy, wouldn't every program be doing that?  I seem to recall a UK football player (can't remember who) being brought in on a track scholarship, but then "walked on" to the football team - when that happened, his scholarship counted against the football limit, reagrdless of its provenance.  Allowing these back door needs-based (or other) scholarships would make a mockery of the whole scholarship limit, and I just don't believe that is allowed.
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Apr 11, 2008 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Locke
Derrick Locke came to UK last year on a track scholarship. I didn't know that because he ended up playing football, it counted there as well.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Apr 11, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's right, it was Locke
I say it counted because I remember it being mentioned during one of the broadcasts.  Now, whether or not the announcers had their facts right, I can't say, but it does seem logical that this would restriction would exist.
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Apr 11, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Delete first "would". . .
. . .and that last sentence might be in English.
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Apr 11, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moved to football scholarship
According to coach Brooks, Locke was moved to a football scholarship when he started playing for the football team.

Apparently he was a dual-sport player (football and track) and wanted to play football for UK really badly, but they didn't have a slot for him.  So he came anyway and ran track hoping he could win a spot on the team.  He did, and had a great first year on the gridiron.

Great story for UK football.

by EEWildcat on Apr 11, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scholarships Count This Way
Football > basketball > all other sports.

A basketball player can be on football scholarship and not count towards basketball limit of 13.

Any other sport (athlete) must be on football or basketball scholarship, or be counted towards the limits in football (85, I think) or basketball.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ravi Moss
Ravi Moss was on an academic scholarship, but of course he was considered a walk-on.

I wouldn't swear to it, but it seems to me I have read where coaches have placed players on academic scholarships to circumvent the athletic scholarship limit.

This is something that needs more research.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 11, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come to think of it
This was the case with Estill as well. I remember one announcer calling him "the best walk-on ever to play at Kentucky." Apparently, it can be done within the rules. I agree with Ken, though. I'd like to know more about how and when it's done, and how the NCAA looks at it. Sounds like we're creating a little research project for you, Tru! :)

by Acdixon on Apr 11, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Estill ...
was on a needs-based scholarship, if I recall correctly.  His family had a low enough income to qualify.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 11, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right
Since he was a partial qualifier, I doubt he had the grades for an academic scholly, but still, I thought he came in on a basketball scholly but was moved to needs-based to free it up for someone else.

by Acdixon on Apr 14, 2008 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scholarship Limits
I'm sure the NCAA closely scrutinizes non-athletic aid to athletes.  I think scholarship players can "voluntarily" relinquish their scholarships, but few can afford to or are willing to make the sacrifice.   (
A full scholly is worth about $15,000.)  Jeff Shepherd may have gone off scholarship the year he "red-shirted" and I think Estill relinquished his but kept his Pell grant or something like that.  

I get the sense that UK isn't counting on Liggins, or is rethinking its needs.  BCG appears to like the AC Law/Bradley/Crawford type guard to can take the ball to the rim and score, get fouled, or dish.  McCoy seems to fit that profile.  If he's tricky like Sparks (and others) and has good overall body strength, height is not critical.  

For the second slot, I like Harrellson, especially since he would be a sophomore (wouldn't he?)   We need a banger who can defend, rebound and score in the paint.  Also a 3-year guy.  

These choices, it seems to me, are critical because Carter will be the only senior next year, and GJ Vilarino (a 6-0, 160# PG) has been offered that slot already.  So the the 2009 team is essentially the 2010 team also (unless there are defections:  Patterson to the pros, unhappy players transferring).  

BCG will have a real opportunity to show us how good he is at player development over the next two seasons.  

by Fortunatus on Apr 11, 2008 6:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Harrellson ...
would indeed be a sophomore.  He is a 3-year player.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 11, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

New Academic Scholarship Rule
Players must have been on athletic scholarship for 1 or 2 years (not sure which) and have 3.3 GPA.

Only 5 Cats had over 3.0 GPA in first semester - Meeks, Jasper, Coury, Perry, Krebs. Only 2 of those are on athletic scholarship.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 11, 2008 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I doubt ...
if they would move either Meeks or Jasper to an academic scholarship.  That has ramifications as well, which include not being able to live in Wildcat Lodge, I believe.

Also, I don't think you can move player on and off athletic scholarships.  Coury ran into this problem.  Smith had him on scholarship for one semester last year, then back off.  They wanted to move him back on this year, but the NCAA rule forbade it.

This is all just top of my head understanding, I would have to do more research to confirm it.  Some of this may be wrong.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 12, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

New Rule In 2008
Player can move from athletic to academic if 3.3 GPA or better.

Coury doesn't meet criterai. Maybe only Meeks or Jasper based on mid-2008 grades.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 12, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I know ...
I meant to say back and forth between them, not one-way.  I think there are some restrictions on that.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 12, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Academic Schollie
I dont believe your scholarship situation has anything to do with not being able to live in Wildcat lodge. Other people besides basketball players can live in the lodge as well. They are always friends of the players and connected to the team like Managers etc. UK cannot restrict Wildcat lodge to players only so blatantly becuase it is considered a university dorm.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 12, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Must be ...
something else, then.  I know that there was something that Ravi Moss couldn't do with the team because he was on an academic scholly.  Maybe it was the training table, or something.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 12, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Starving Ravi
I think you're right Tru. I don't believe he was able to eat with the rest of the team at the training table.

If I remember correctly, the NCAA made UK open up Wildcat Lodge to "regular" students fairly quickly after it was opened.

I do know that non-athlete students are currently required to live in the Lodge. I'm not sure of the ratio though.

by Ken Howlett on Apr 12, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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