Vanderbilt Commodores, 74 at Kentucky Wildcats (1) 83: Postmortem
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 4:19 PM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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Today, the Kentucky Wildcats took on the second stiff challenge in a row. Purely and simply, they prevailed on the strength of a spectacular game by Anthony Davis.
Congratulations to the Vanderbilt Commodores. I have to admit, there was a point in this game when I began to doubt myself, because I was convinced that there was simply no way, barring lights-out shooting or some kind of serious regression from Kentucky, that Vandy could win this game. Kentucky did almost everything I said they needed to, and Vanderbilt simply would not go away. Festus Ezeli was genuinely excellent, and even though Kentucky smothered John Jenkins, he still managed to make several ridiculous, challenged threes that reminded me more of Chris Lofton than anything else, and you can trust me when I tell you that is as high a praise as you will ever likely see from me for a three-point specialist. All this is a sign of great maturity in this Vanderbilt team.
But Vandy wasn't just about threes, they did a lot of terrific things, especially off the bounce. I tell you this Vanderbilt team is a sleeper, and is finally starting to round into the form that got them picked in the top ten pre-season, and that is good to see. Yes, this was a loss for them, but I doubt three teams in America could have come into Rupp Arena and given this mighty UK squad a game this good. Forget victory -- nobody, and I mean nobody, has better than a puncher's chance against UK this year in Rupp Arena. But Vanderbilt just gave an extremely impressive effort, and if there is such a thing in this universe as a "good loss," this is surely one.
Superlatives:
- Giving anyone other than Anthony Davis the game ball would be an act of criminal negligence, malfeasance, and unethical incompetence. Given that, this is one of the most foregone conclusions of the year for me. 10-11 shooting, 8-9 from the line, 11 rebounds, 6 blocks and a partridge in a pear tree. Player of the Year performance, and abject fear bordering on terror for every likely opponent in America. Game ball.
- Marquis Teague will not bewilder you with his stats, especially considering an unacceptably high 4 turnovers, but Teague did a bunch of really good things that will not show up in the stat line. Good work, not great.
-
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist hyperextended his left knee, and I'm really glad he fouled out when he did -- that injury, although minor, can expose the knee to serious damage right after it happens. I was totally uncomfortable when he came back in, and I'm really glad he left early. But he played a great game, with the exception of some uncharacteristic defensive breakdowns. 8 points and 8 rebounds in a foul-truncated game, but his one-man fast-break is pure John Wall.
-
Darius Miller shot the ball badly in the first half, but man, did he pick it up in the second. Has anyone noticed that he has a real flair for the dramatic?
- Terrence Jones played just okay offensively, but well as usual defensively. I was not really happy with his intensity, particularly in the first half. He did better in the second.
- Doron Lamb didn't have a great offensive game, but he really locked up John Jenkins in a way that had me cheering. I don't care if lamb scored a point, Jenkins is a big, dangerous shooter that is barely within the ability of Doron Lamb to guard. In my mind, he was wildly successful against him, even though Jenkins scored 18 points.
- Eloy Vargas played, drew a controversial (due only to an overrule) foul, and made one free throw. End of story.
- 85% free throw shooting. Awesome, baby. I love that.
- 57.1% from the field -- for the game. Can you say, "efficiency," boys and girls? I knew you could.
Not so superlative:
- 3-point shooting. Kentucky shot 20%. What is it about Vanderbilt that makes us shoot like crap from three?
- What does Marquis Teague have against making layups? And if he doesn't start using that left hand, he can forget about being drafted in the first round. Those reverse layups get sent to the third row in the NBA.
- Dumb fouls from Lamb and Miller were annoying.
- I thought Kentucky's intensity was second-best today.
Overall, a great victory. My complaints above are totally nit-picky, but that's really a good thing -- this team can play better, and that means that the "peaked too early" complaint is bogus, as we all suspected.
Anthony Davis is, at his best, one of the most dominant players in college basketball. Today, he stood astride the entire game, a giant of unapproachable skill and terrifying efficiency on both ends. This was one of the most dominant performances by a basketball player I have seen since the days of Kevin Durant, and when you consider both ends, it may be the most dominant performance since Shaq graced LSU's starting lineup.
Georgia Bulldogs up next, at home this time. Go, 'Cats!
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This one ...
“Giving anyone other than Anthony Davis the game ball would be an act of criminal negligence, malfeasance, and unethical incompetence. " had me in stitches …. :)
Great PM sir.
the streak....
I was so afraid that the Rupp winning strak would end today, so I am relieved. Has any one else notice that fellow SEC fans calls the refs RUPP-erees? LMAO.
I have not ...
… but then, sour grapes do not register much on my radar, especially from opponents who know they are inferior. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
attilla63
Oh sure. We get every call that could go either way. The university holds big buffalo wing dinners for the officials after each game. Even on the road yet.
They remind me of those Kentucky green grapes we used to eat as a kid. Or green persimmons. Phooey! LOL
new orleans
Nobodys paying much attention to the fact that we might play 3 games in the superdome BEFORE the final four. Had we played a game at Reliant stadium before uconn, theres no way we would have lost
But we won't....isn't the SEC tourney at New Orleans Arena?
Proud member of the Big Blue Nation - Let's Go Cats!!!
According to that bracket
it is noon CT. I thought most of the SEC tournament games started at 1 ET.
thanks for posting this, my parents keep asking about the schedule
they’re kinda impatient for 3/8 to hurry up and get here already
Proud member of the Big Blue Nation - Let's Go Cats!!!
I actually tried to post that in the game thread today
I tried to get it to post several times and didn’t try any more after that. That has to be in our favor. We just have to advance to the Final Four to reap the benefits.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
did anyone watch Stalling's interview?
He looked emotionally spent… He honestly felt they could win this one…
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120225/SPORTS03/302250034/Kentucky-Vanderbilt-basketball
Congrats UK fans
Vandy fan here. Davis played the best game for a big man I think I’ve seen in college ball today. Going back to the likes of Sam Bowie never had this kind of game. Congrats. Hope to meet again in the SEC Tourney final
Yeah
I hope Vandy ends up in Syracuse’s bracket. I’d like to see another orange team on the business end of a 3 PT bombardment.
"He still carries a lunch bucket. What's up with that?"
by BlueCollarMan on Feb 25, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
BCM - Not sure what you're sayin here, ...
Vandy only made 7 threes today ib 18 attempts. More than us, certainly, but it wasn’t like 15+ or something.
On the other hand, like you, I think the ’Dores can play with anybody and would give the Orange way more than they would wish for.
Let me clarify
I think it’s highly likely that Vandy would light up a well-known zone defense for more than 7 3PT.
"He still carries a lunch bucket. What's up with that?"
by BlueCollarMan on Feb 26, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Vandy could be a big matchup problem for some teams
Vandy’s biggest issue is thay don’t respond well to defensive pressure. They turn the ball over way too much when pressed. Arkansas In Bud Walton was the 1 SEC game they were out of early and it was directly a result of the pressure. VU-Fla in Gainsville also got ugly in the 2nd half due to pressure and turnovers.
But against a team that does not press, they are very dangerous. This is why they give UK such a hard time. Its a good style matchup for Vandy.
So Vandy could give teams like Syracuse and Duke a really tough time if they get matched up. Missouri might be a problem, but Vandy went to OT against them in their house last year. The two teams are about the same this year vs last.
Time will tell. You guys have locked up a #1 seed. Vandy’s fate is still very much in the air.
After seeing you guys twice in quick succession
I think Vandy is playing more like their earlier season rankings than where they currently are in the rankings. As was said a few comments upthread, there will be a bunch of teams that will curse the brackets when they find themselves having to face you all in the tourney. I hope not to see you till the SEC finals. Getting three wins in a year against a team as good as Vandy will be a tall order. On the other hand, I do love these Cats. We have something special happening right now.
I think...
I’ve seen enough of Vandy this year.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
How 'bout we don't, and say we did??
Great game from you guys today! Don’t want to play you again this year, nothing personal! :-)
If your wings don't sweep....
SEC Champs!
This victory clinches the outright SEC Title for the Cats this year. I know the NT is the big prize, but it’s still a big deal to win the conference.
A really great effort by Vandy. I agree with everyone else that I would be perfectly fine not seeing them again this year.
Statistics is the part of mathematics that God didn't invent. - Ethan Smith
yes, that is great.
I got an email from Football Fanatics immediately after the game telling me “get your UK SEC Champs gear here!!”. I may or may not order far too much merchandise from them, perhaps that’s why I got the email? At any rate, it was cool to see the title in print on a t-shirt and such already. Good stuff, and yes, a great accomplishment.
What is it about Vandy?
I asked it a year ago and then after their first round loss to the Spiders (quickly, who?) here in Denver I coined the phrase: there is soft and then there is Vandy soft.
I didn’t see that today and one might argue that except for AD’s spectacular performance, Vandy would have won. They wouldn’t have. Someone else would have stepped up.
Unlike Glenn (great write up btw) and some others I never had a doubt UK would win. Vandy just can’t get it done. Why? The only thing I can come up with is that they might be a better team, if Gunsmoke and ChaChing were spent more time on the court together….getting bigger near the basket and eliminating one scorer. But I really don;t have strong beliefs about it.
Anyway, many folks say it is great to have balanced scoring without a go to guy. I have always disagreed…when it matters a team needs to know, who takes the shot….today we might have seen the emergence of that guy…AD. In the college game there is not one player who can match up with him out on the floor….in the pros there are several. Durant comes to mind.
One last point, the officiating was interesting. Not one 3 second call, despite Gunsmoke camped in the lane. Then the FT’s, UK’s scores 59 or so out of 83in the paint and Vandy took more FT’s. What is that about?
Sorry, but two more. I have started listening to the Post Game show on the internet…Coach is amazing. With every word he speaks, he is selling UK, marketing the brand , communicating to the players. Honestly I have never heard anything like it. Then there was the big news that MKG is coming back next year. We shall see, but he should.
Off to yoga.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 25, 2012 5:23 PM EST reply actions
There was nothing soft about Vanderbilt today.
I don’t know what game you were watching.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The Vandy/UK game
I wrote: I didn’t see that today. Reread.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ah.
Never mind. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call them soft either. But here is the thing.
The only way that a team is going to beat us, is to just run away with the game. They would have to come out, put us down by 20 or so and then be able to keep that kind of energy going for two halves.
Calipari is NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN. He manages the game too well. You might get up 10-12 on us, but you will get no further. He knows how to keep a game close until his troops can wear you down physically and executionally. Unless you play two flawless halves, you are not going to beat us right now.
Vandy plays hard. They play fast, when you allow them to, and they don’t make a lot of mistakes, and that is all you can hope to do against this team. That is unless Davis decides to take over, then you can pack up and go home.
I WILL NOT miss this group at Vandy……I wish them all the best in some other endeavor, far, far away.
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 25, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
That probably came out differently than I intended it.....lol....
I simply meant that they force you out of the plays you start out trying to execute…..lol
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 26, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yep.
And in that game the Spiders didn’t just get every 50/50 that got every 30/70. Nothing like that today.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 25, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Vandy fan response
I agree with the soft label previously. But having watched this team all year, I still wonder if its there. They show a lot of heart to come back time and again against UK. I don’t doubt their fight in that regard. But if you look at their losses, so many have come late. Both UK games. 3 OT games were all lost They had 2nd half leads in 2 of the other 4 losses. Of their 9 losses this year, they led in the 2nd half in 7 of them.
For whatever reason, this team seems to struggle to close out games.
We’ve felt part of the issue is a lack of a go-to guy down the clutch. Jenkins is a great shooter, but isnt truly a creator. Ezeli is too inconsistent in the post, especially against better defenders. He can explot weaker defenders but most good teams dont have that problem. Vandy has been hoping that Jeff Taylor would step up and become that go to guy. He has started to do that this year. He seems to be finally filling the role that he’s been physically talented enough to do for awhile. But obviously he hasnt done it enough or Vandy would not have so many losses.
So I guess I’m saying that we’ll have to wait and see.
Quoting BO, Let me be clear
Vandy is very talented. The soft issue is prior year issue; They are playing much harder this year than in prior years. I like the team and maybe it is the go to guy thing you mention. Yet there is something else and I can’t put my finger on it. Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Vandy win the next game against Uk or make it to the FF.
Anyway, it was a good game game yesterday and good luck except when playing the Cats.
Btw, goodness can Jenkins get a shot off quickly.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 26, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
The team does has talent, but also some definite weaknesses
They have 3 NBA players in Taylor, Jenkins, and Ezeli. I thought Taylor was the 2nd best guy on the court yesterday behind AD. So yes, there is talent.
But their guards struggle against quickness. Teague was able to get into lane at will. And while UK didn’t press, they struggle against teams that do press. Florida is a bad matchup for Vandy because of this.
But the other thing that is an issue, and I mentioned this above, they have not closed out games when they’ve had chances. They have generally not played winning basketball in the clutch.
I was at the game yesterday
and the consensus in the crowd where I was sitting was that Taylor sure would look good in blue.
Making waves in a sea of blue.
Spiders are just down the road from me in Richmond VA
They were a real good team last year, with VCU making the final 4, George Mason and Hampton in the dance, it was a good year for small VA schools.
OT now
Dang, I don’t know that I want to see either of these teams in the tourney,
You can put it on the board....YES.
Teams I don't want to see in our bracket
Kansas
Mizzou
Murray State (’cause that would just break my heart)
Michigan State
Team I wouldn’t mind squaring off against:
Duke
Ohio State
North Carolina
Louisville (‘cause that wouldn’t break my heart)
The matchup everyone wants:
Syracuse
and whether or not they’ll admit it
Syracuse
Proud member of the Big Blue Nation - Let's Go Cats!!!
My thoughts on that
UNC, KU and Cuse as the other 1 seeds.
The other teams I wouldn’t want as our 2-3 are MSU and Mizzou.
I would love to have Duke as our 2, but they could probably lose every game the rest of the year and get the last 1 seed.
UKlvrBM
I can guarantee one thing. Kentucky will get the toughest bracket. We always do, always will.
I want to rec your post for that last line, but...
There’s a lot of truth there. Duke will get a pansy bracket with games close to the Atlantic seaboard. We will draw a murderer’s row of tough teams. Of course, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I really don’t think there is any college team in America that could beat us 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7. Pulling off a fluke after the kids couldn’t or didn’t sleep last night? Yeah, that can happen.
overtime now.
KU came back to force OT, and currently leads.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
big-cuz fan
Yeh. They were. But Kansas put in their three star subs. The refs. To nobody’s surprise they won a close game.
seems like vandy
has the personnel to play the passing lanes effectively on our shooters…this led to tipped balls, turnovers, or our shooters receiving the ball out of position. in the 2nd half, i saw lamb make an adjustment and start driving base-line on his defender which led to a couple key baskets down the stretch.
by stabbin_mcadams on Feb 25, 2012 5:25 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Yes. I remember in ’86 when “Skywalker” was here. UK had to play Alabama and LSU three times. They won all 6 games. However a fourth time vs. LSU in the regional final was too much. They lost. I literally cried after that game. The ’86 Cats had champion written all over them.
It is extremely difficult to beat a GOOD team 3 or 4 times in one season. I hope we don’t see Vandy again until next year.
I had exactly that thought...
Say we beat Vandy again in the SEC then like LSU have to play them again in the Elite 8. You would have to tranquilize me to watch that game. Vandy is talented and they are good. and they just can’t beat the Cats. Well you know about blind squirrels right?
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 25, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Kinda like playing Utah upteen times in a row in the Tourney!
I just knew they were going to have our number…
If your wings don't sweep....
We beat Alabama four times in 1986
Beat them on Thursday night in Atlanta before the loss to LSU.
True - and this tournament lead to a rule change in how brackets are done.
Once again, nationally UK’s most famous games are those it has lost (‘66 NC (all black starting five), ’75 NC (Wooden’s last game), ’92 E8 (the Shot), ’86 E8 (leading to rule change on conference opponents)) than its wins. I would love to have the NC this year just so we could be the first team ever with only 7 years of playing time in the starting five (3 frosh, 2 soph). That would have to make UK famous for a big win instead of a loss.
I agree.
It gets tougher the more games you play.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
i hope miller time keeps showing up...
he’s been coming up with huge baskets when we need em.
by stabbin_mcadams on Feb 25, 2012 5:32 PM EST via Android app reply actions
ukcris
Yeah boy. Hope he comes back for his fifth year. Well why not. Post graduate players get to play nowadays. Don’t they? Yuk. Yuk.
is kidd-gilchrist really coming back next year?
and is this a good thing?
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
Never listen to what players say during the season.
That’s all I have to suggest about that.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Maybe
But improving his shooting would make him a lottery pick. Similar to TJ coming back, but better in my opinion.
by UKFanStuckInDC on Feb 25, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Top 5 isn't lottery?
MKG is being projected as the fifth pick right now—that’s well within the lottery. I’m not saying he will or he won’t come back, but if he does it will be similar to Barnes and Sullinger in that it’s because he wants to play another year of college ball, not to improve his draft position significantly.
by Mr Kilgore Trout on Feb 25, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
So true.
Let me say this simply: for a player that “needs to work on something” – he can do that easier in the NBA than in college. He has money, doesn’t have to go to class, and can focus on basketball ALL THE TIME. If you are a lottery pick, the only smart financial and basketball decision is to go pro. If you want to stay in school for other reasons (I love college, mommy wanted me to get a degree, etc.), that is all ok with me. But let’s not pretend we are looking out for the player’s best interest with arguments about needing to improve his jump shot. Players improve their jump shots more after getting to the NBA than they ever do in college. Look at players like Rasheed Wallace who didn’t hit a outside jump shot in 2 or 3 years at UNC and became a dangerous 3 point shooter in the NBA.
JB
100% right. Michael Jordan ditto. He did not become the monster player he was until he went to the NBA. He was an All America though.
ukcris
Cris, I have followed UK since 1948. In my opinion, yes. I know that’s walking in tall cotton but AD is already better than some of the four year greats that played for the Big Blue.
I can't say I go back that far ... mid 70's for me ....
There have been so many great players a UK over the years … I can’t remember one like Davis..
Yes
But remember, Bowie was drafted ahead of Michael Jordan. Sam was something special as well. Injuries took him down and really limited his production as a pro.
Davis is really something special though. Can we have both of them? Good, thanks.
You gotta go back to Shaq or David Robinson to find a better college player, pretty good company
Agree - Bowie was AD in ability but limited by injuries - even in college.
Remember, he played two years, then sat two years with injury, then had a good “senior” season except for the Georgetown game. (Another signature loss for UK.) Bowie was awfully good.
But AD is right there and may get the NC that Bowie did not.
i think he potentially is the best 6'11" guard-forward-center i have ever seen...
by big-cuz fan on Feb 25, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
i am ready to change my handle from big-cuz fan to big davis fan...
he plays a game i am not familiar with…
by big-cuz fan on Feb 25, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Jon Scott's website
Says an overwhelming yes. Player ratings. He tops the lists of many great players. Too many for me to post here.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Only since 1979
That data only goes back to 1979, long past the era of great big men. How about Bill Spivey? He played an exhibition game against Wilt Chamberlain in 1960, long after his prime, and put up 30 pts and 23 rebs. He was player of the year in 1951.
How about Dan Issel? Or Cliff Hagan? With all due respect to Anthony Davis, when he starts putting up double doubles against the likes of Wilt, Bill Russell, and Kareem then we can talk about best ever at UK. Until then, it’s just great to watch him play.
"He still carries a lunch bucket. What's up with that?"
by BlueCollarMan on Feb 26, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Spivey And Groza
They were clearly the best big men of their era. And neither got the POY respect they really deserved. Both > George Mikan, I think. Both hurt by point shaving scandal at UK.
I know a guy (Arnie Ferrin) who played against Groza. He said he was the best of that era.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I’ve heard similar from others. Those guys just owned the court in their time.
"He still carries a lunch bucket. What's up with that?"
by BlueCollarMan on Feb 26, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
One thing Groza has in his favor is...
as far as I know he was the only college player given a piece of ownership of a pro team coming out of college…that says a great deal about his ability and appeal.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 26, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think
Groza, Beard, and Jones got ownership in the Indianapolis Olympians.
The Career Points per FGA chart goes way back, 1947 I believe.
Cliff Hagan and Dan Issel are listed there. Anthony is at the top now. Travis Ford was first is second, and Travis was almost the money shot.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/ratingpointsperfgacareer.html
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
We're watching history. Drink it in.
Many years from now, when people ask, Ezeli will say, “Yeah, I played against that guy.”
by Wheatgerm on Feb 26, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You’re right. I saw or heard all of those great players on TV/Radio. Including Mikan, Groza, Jabar, Spivey, Ferrin, Russell, etc. I was speaking of the greats who played at Kentucky.
AD is the best as a freshman I’ve seen in my lifetime. If he played four years without getting hurt he would set records that would probably stand for as long as there is BB.
I recall commenting last year that Cal had one coming who would be another Marcus Camby. He’s exceeded my expectations.
Well
Davis had am AMAZING game…. bit so did Robinson… POY race is going strong!
by floundringaround on Feb 25, 2012 6:44 PM EST reply actions
Robinson is a beast.
Worthy of consideration. Outstanding player.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
either player would be a deserving POY...
i think that Davis’s problem is that he is a freshman… His upside is beyond Robinson’s…
It’s a really hard call today…. Let’s stay tuned for more great basketball… I love college basketball…
by big-cuz fan on Feb 25, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
My argument would be that Robinson and Taylor are the offensive for Kansas
Davis who is capable of having higher numbers isn’t as critical for us offensively as they are.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Lamb on Jenkins
I just want to reiterate the fine defensive job Lamb did on Jenkins. Jenkins is a special offensive player, and Doron really stepped up his effort today. I think it was the best defensive play I have seen out of Lamb. Kudos to him.
+1
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 25, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
It was great.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
I personally disagree
Maybe I was watching a different game. I would say Lamb had more defensive intensity than usual, but still did not do a great job in my mind. An acceptable (for him) job I guess, because Jenkins is a very good offensive player. For example, he offered no resistance at all to numerous drives straight to the lane.
I wonder why Lamb got that assignment actually.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
kcgard2
On Cal’s post game show, he mentioned that Lamb did not have a good game. Guess you and he are on the same page.
Actually Cal mentioned he had a bad first half (with Darius)
He was pretty complimentary of everyones 2nd half
Another great win
Great writeup as usual Glenn. I think what makes your post game analysis my favorite is that you commend the other team while keeping it real, so to say, on how UK and our players played.
As for the POY, Robinson is a beast and an amazing player and any other year he should and would win the award. But as Glenn said about Shaq, my time was before that so I have to go on what I have seen and I have NEVER seen a single player impact a game not only so dominantly, but so efficiently in my entire life. Thats gotta count for something right? lol
Shaq had weaknesses........
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 25, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
To this day,
whenever my wife sees a player who is awful at the FT line, she says: “That’s not just bad, that’s Shaq bad.”
I like her.
Oh my yes, but that would be an unfair comparison for one simple reason:
Nobody is Ben Wallace bad.
I have to say, though, “Big Ben bad” does trip off the tongue. Thanks! I will suggest it next time she brings it up.
WG
Remember when the Purdue great Joe Barry Carrol got to the NBA? Took about a year for him to pick up the tag, “Joe Barely Cares.” Ha. Ha.
I think he played at Rupp in a UKIT one year.
I have a memory of being a young ’un and being at that game. I think UK lost, but not sure my memory is accurate.
Yes he did. But he faced Sam Bowie. And Sam really agitated him. To the point that Joe called for the ball every time down the floor. Bowie was a freshman and outplayed Joe.
I lived in TN at the time but caught the game on radio.
Cawood Ledford was really excited in that one. The 1979 UKIT. Cats won 61-60.
They did lose to Purdue in the 1970 UKIT.
1970
I was a Purdue freshman student that year.
I lost $ on that game. My fellow students razzed me hard.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Barry Carroll
His final 2 choices as a recruit were Purdue and UK.
Joe Hall wanted him as a package deal (sort of) with LaVon Williams in 1976. Both were from Denver.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Vandy fan here on AD vs Shaq
Having watched both of them in college against Vandy, Shaq is the more dominant offensive player but AD is by far and away the better defender.
Shaq would get triple teamed every time he got the ball because no one could come close to matching his size, strength, and quickness. You had to at least double him or foul him if he ever got the ball deep. You absolutely had to plan your whole defense around Shaq. Not to take anything away from AD, but you don’t plan your whole defense for him. He generally gets his points in the flow of the game and generally isnt the primary scoring option.
Defensively, however, AD was much, much, much better. In the post game Vandy thread after the Nashville game, we commented that AD can single-handedly gaurd the pick and roll. We’ve never seen a person do that. He doesnt have to really press out on teh shooter because his length, quickness, and leaping allows him to cover the shooter without having to move forward. Unreal. In this last game, he had some of the sickest blocks I’ve seen, coming from no where. Every single time a Vandy guy got the ball towards the paint or on a drive, he was looking for AD. It was really clear. Complete dominance on the defensive side of the court. Shaq, in contrast, while a decent low post defender, could be exposed on the perimeter. He could be exploited on the pick and roll. He was a good shot blocker, but nothing like the class of AD.
Now that's an observation
“Can single-handedly guard the pick-and-roll.”
Thanks very much.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Stallings
I listened to Stallings’ post-game comments. He was very complimentary of Miller. Said he thinks Miller has subordinated his game for the benefit of the team. In fact, Stallings said very nice things about the way the Cats play. Class comments.
Damn.
I might have to change my opinion of him. I’ve grudgingly decided he’s a really good game coach.
I think that would be a good assessment of Coach Stallings. I’ve heard he is a top notch person. Not perfect but a good man. And I’m not implying perfection, none of us are.
Stallings
Just before the game yesterday there were some TV shots of him joking and cutting up with a bunch of long time blue haired Cat fans. You could tell he enjoyed chatting with them. Moments like that are very telling of a person’s true character.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Feb 26, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Vandy
Gets my respect. Very good game. I will cheer for them in the tourney and hope they win every game not against us. But when I fill out my bracket, I will pick them to lose first round. Sorry ’dores but until you give me reason to believe you can play some other team the way you play against us, you are not busting my bracket again.
Yes, certainly the easiest game ball to give out for some time. Really love though how Miller, Lamb and Teaque turned it around and played at crunch time.
Fun game to watch.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
28-1 Is VERY Hallowed Ground At UK
1996 did it. Maybe 2010 (not sure, but I think so). No other UK teams in my lifetime (1951-52 on).
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST reply actions
27-1 before losing yo UT,
If I count correctly.
Two things don't last: dogs chasing cars and pros putting for pars.
by oldcat'69 on Feb 25, 2012 9:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Indeed it is.
No, 2010 did not reach that mark.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
It sure is
This team has the opportunity to go down in history as one of the greatest ever at UK. And that’s a pretty storied history.
"He still carries a lunch bucket. What's up with that?"
by BlueCollarMan on Feb 26, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
And that would be walking in real TALL cotton.
by bigboyblue on Feb 26, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great win vs veteran team-
Vanderbilt believed they could win, and gave us their best shot. But, this group of players have shown that they are the real deal all season. They do not rattle and have better team chemistry than any UK team I have seen… My wife , son and I spent the better part of the week-end in Nashville at my oldest daughters. Her husband, and the rest of us decended upon Nashville this afternoon shopping and went out to eat. All five of us were wearing our Wildcat gear, and got nothing but good comments from the people of Nashville… Great town, Nashville…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
Stuck With Replay Highlights
Missed last minute of first half and all of second half, can’t believe CBSsports.com doesn’t archive their games, evidently they leave it up to individual schools with their all-access but as far as I can tell UK doesn’t archive. Nevertheless highlights, commentary and box score tell quite a bit. Quite a tribute to ‘Dores: play as well and hard as you can is all anyone can ask. Fact is Cats are unbeatable in Rupp this year. About all Stallings could find to mourn was the lack of block outs on AD — he said only blocked out twice and both times by a guard — but Davis’ quickness and athleticism makes it difficult for a bigger player to out position him (quite, quite similar to Bill Russell in his prime). Appears that Teague has ultimate confidence when paired versus Tinsley, have a feeling he could do that against others if he believed it. Wish Calipari could convince Miller that he’s needed in early going and that he doesn’t have to wait until crunch time, but if you have to choose, late is better. Back to Davis: if he can continue to hit the 12-18 footer with some consistency he will be Durant-hard to guard. See that MK-G has backed off his staying statement, wise of him and probably had some help. Had hoped that AD’s performance would give him some POY margin over Robinson but the Jayhawk had 28 & 12 with a game-saving block Was looking forward to perhaps a breather versus UGA but the way the Dogs chomped the Gators probably another sweat-it-out, at least it’s on ESPN with replay. Just time to recharge and root the Lady Cats to a road win.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
WW - where do you live??
If you live in KY and get WMYO, that channel normally replays the games later that night (around 11-1am) or one of the next few days. They did this for a lot of other games and the latest scrimage that was televised.
Crap.....
I did a google search and you can rent it from secondemand, but I would think it shows up online in the next few days by someone.
I’d ask BBN in a fan post to put up the last 5 minutes on youtube. I bet you wouldn’t have to wait long. :)
It should show up on the SEC website
Although that means you’ll have to pay for it.
Statistics is the part of mathematics that God didn't invent. - Ethan Smith
Good ..........
showing by Vandy today and it appears theyd have a good run in NCAA…but their history isnt so stellar…me thinks they lose in 2ed round…just a hunch
Lets get it on!!!!
heh.
yeah, that’s sort of my feeling of them as well. They give us scares and pretty good game during the season, but always, at least recently to my admittedly limited memory, seem to fade out relatively early in the NCAA tourney. Not sure what you’d call them in that instance exactly, not really pretenders as they do have game during the season, but I don’t really fear they’ll have a long tourney run. Like you say, just a hunch.
I don't think this Vandy team will, though.
This one is a little different.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
of course ...
… that does depend on their seed, as much as anything else.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 25, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Vandy has been a shrinking violet in the NCAA tourney of late...
But I really expect more from them this year.
They just haven’t been able to finish well in do-or-die games.
I would love to see at least 2 SEC teams in the elite right.
by bob in bg on Feb 26, 2012 9:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
This year, I feel,
it will pay to be a contrarian. Soon as everyone starts talking about Vandy’s history in the tournament, it’s time to pick this team to do some damage. They certainly are capable.
Props
to Vanderbilt. They played exceptionally well. Ezeli played possibly his best game of the year. He said before the game that last time vs. UK he was too hyped, too up for the game and it affected his performance. Well, he had no such problems today (even though he’s a t/o waiting to happen).
I thought that Vandy defended better today than I’ve seen them defend all year (a total of 4 or 5 games), yet UK still made almost 70% of its second half shots. Just amazing.
Anthony Davis is just living in another world. He’s so freakin’ dominant (when one looks at his entire game), there should be no player of the year race (with apologies to the excellent Thomas Robinson). Not since Durant dominated in his freshman year have I seen a first-year player even close to being in Davis’ class. Carmelo was darn good, but he can’t hold Davis’ jock as far as being a game-changer. No disrespect to Melo intended, because he has plenty of company.
And if one expands the comparison’s to Davis to include all players regardless class, it’s still hard to come up with a player as influential as Ant in the outcome of games. He doesn’t have to score a point to be the most valuable player for UK. His rebounding, shot blocking, shot altering/intimidation, steals, and deflections impact most games more than any points he could score for the Cats. Points from that guy are G.R.A.V.Y.
Miller has become $$ in the second half of the second half of games for about a month now. One can almost see him tell himself, OK, it’s time to take over. Whether it be 3s, free throws, or just making big plays as he did today, in the last five minutes it’s Miller who’s stepping up his game more than any other Wildcat.
This team looks as good as any late-season UK squad I can remember (Suffocats come to mind, and the ‘96 team dominated almost that entire season, also), and on a neutral floor I’d have confidence in UK beating anyone they played. With so many negative things that can happen through the course of a year, that’s the most a fan can ask for, I think. A team that has a look of invincibility, but knows its not invincible (thanks to Christian Watford).
Vitale Said
AD is POY without a doubt.
He’s perhaps the most talented Wildcat of my lifetime.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Dickie V may be right on this one-
Sometimes it’s hard to tell with him. But, this is certainly high praise comming from you Forty.
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
I appreciate you so much Glenn Logan …
That guy over bucnation is a jerk.
He hates when people correct him. What’s the point of commenting when you cant accept peoples opinions being better then yours with facts to back it up.
It just is a big relief overhere, most times I don’t even have to comment because you are right & make sense.
Great post btw … goodnite Kentucky family # them calipari boyz … Lego
by HurricaneBuccaneerWildcat on Feb 26, 2012 1:04 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Thanks.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 26, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Cats # 1 In Ken Pomeroy Rankings
http://kenpom.com/ not scientic, not perfect methodology, but KP offers view of past 10 years.
Cats average 4th under Calipari. UK averaged low 50’s under Gillispie and 11th in last 5 years of Tubby Smith.
Last 3 years clearly best for UK since 1996-97-98 timeframe. Better than 2003-04-05 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 10:24 AM EST reply actions
Corrections
Scientific.
And 3rd (average) under Calipari.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Reading the first two lines,
My first thought was that Forty was about to clean this guy’s clock.
Imagine my surprise. :)
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
I Like The KenPom Ratings Actually
I just don’t think they are absolutely correct for everyone.
They offer good historical perspective more so than current.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 27, 2012 7:23 AM EST up reply actions
Well, it is scientific.
When something is statistically rigorous, I’m not sure how you can call it “not scientific.”
It is just statistics, though. Our interpretation of them is what is not scientific. The statistics themselves are immutable facts.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 26, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Science (The Laws Of Nature) Is Different Than Math (Statistics) In My View
Ken Pomeroy uses a formula to rank teams 1 through Last.
It is a mathematical formula but not scientific. It’s not absolute (like science) but subjective use of objective numbers (stats).
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Math is what is used to describe scientific laws in exact terms
Mathematical statistics is derived from settled areas of math (calculus and measure theory mostly) as well as established assumptions regarding probability laws. Inferences based on those principles are most definitely “scientific”.
The degree to which KenPom’s ratings are scientific are perhaps somewhat debatable, in the sense that the way he puts them together does not come from an established methodology, but are rather designed to describe how good a team is by using their points score and points allowed rather than simply wins and losses. There is really only one way to test such a design and that is to make predictions and see how well those predictions turn out.
Statistics is the part of mathematics that God didn't invent. - Ethan Smith
Not true at all.
It is a very reliable predictor.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I was speaking scientifically.
In science, results must be repeatable before something can be considered as fact. These ratings are great measurements of past performance and certainly give great information when considering the strengths of teams in match ups. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but did Kenpom predict Wisc. knocking off OSU last night? Too many variables in college basketball. How is a given player feeling at game time, which team of officials did you get, injuries, team morale, etc.? Right most of the time is not what science is about.
Making waves in a sea of blue.
That Was My Point Initially
You explained the difference between science and KenPom ratings better than I did.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 27, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
For your question about Wisconsin/OSU..
… by my rough and incomplete reckoning, Pomeroy’s gets the outcome right between 75 and 80% of the time.
No statistical system can predict the future. His is set up to give you probabilities of a win or a loss. Just because something is probable based on the odds, doesn’t mean it will happen.
My point was, valid statistical formulas and methodology is used to achieve this level of accuracy. Furthermore, every piece of data that goes into the calculation is accurate, a “fact” if you will. Those can be analyzed and probabilities generated. The value of those probabilities is pretty subjective, but you have to remember that is exactly what Las Vegas does to make a lot of money.
There are too many variables only to be certain about an outcome, as you say, but not to predict with a high likelihood of success. If we could be certain of an outcome, we would not bother to play the contest.
Right most of the time is not what science is about.
You’re confusing outcome with methodology. The methodology is “scientific” in the sense that he uses proven and accepted mathematical techniques to reach his probabilities. But a probability is NOT a guarantee.
When you flip a coin, are you guaranteed a heads or tails? No, of course not. There is a non-zero probability that the coin will remain on its edge, or roll into a place where it can’t be found, or be struck on the way to the ground by a meteor and vaporized, or that the Earth will collide with an asteroid and be destroyed before the conclusion of the toss.
Does that mean that we can’t predict what the outcome will be with some level of accuracy? No. We know that the probability of a coin toss resulting in a heads or a tails will be very near 50%. So does the fact that we can sometimes get 8 heads out of 10 tosses invalidate that probability? Of course not.
That’s the argument you are making — that Kenpom’s system has to be perfect in order to be scientific. But as I just illustrated, that conclusion is wrong.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
My Point Is That
KP uses a formula that he created. It’s subjective.
Mother Nature (science) isn’t subjective.
KP thinks UK was 20th best team in 2006 and 14th best in 2007. Not many UK fans would agree. But his formula yields those results.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
No, he doesn't.
That formula was created by others. He’s just the first to apply it to basketball. He modified the formula somewhat to account for strength of schedule and other things unique to the sport, but none of them are actually subjective, they are all based on standard statistical analysis techniques.
In any case, there is nothing unscientific or particularly subjective about what he does. That is a myth. He is using a well-established methodology that has been used in baseball for a while now.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Borrowing A Line From Red Lobster (Paraphrasing)
I see things differently.
KenPom ratings are not absolute or perfect. Plenty of examples throughout 10 years listed on his website.
But they do show UK as one of Top 2 or 3 teams under Calipari. I agree with that.
The best team is determined on the court, not by a formula.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 27, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
I want you to show me ...
… anyplace where I said anything in your second sentence.
Since I didn’t say that, and in fact said something completely different, you are doing nothing but being argumentative purely for the sake of getting the last word. In effect, you are raising a strawman and doing an impressive job of dashing it asunder.
This is my last comment on this matter, so if you want the last word, you’ve got it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Ken doesn't believe his rankings are perfect and has never claimed they are
He’s addressed this issue before.
Statistics is the part of mathematics that God didn't invent. - Ethan Smith
I Agree With Ken Pomeroy On That
They are interesting. But not anything more (or less) than that.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 27, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
They are probanly the best we have at measuring
the most scientifically rigorous of the methods that are out there. It is impossible to predict anything (remotely complex) with 100% certainty, even if the science underlying our model is beyond reproach.
Just because the rankings have not predicted reality with 100% accuracy does not mean they are unscientific. Heck, they may be an even better indicator of “true talent” than real-life results.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
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