Can "Fans" Really Be Objective?
I will insert the jump here, not necessarily because I think my writing is worth the front page, but because the discussion and comments should be.....so if the commentary warrants it, Glenn can promote without it taking up the whole front page.
What concerns me is the exact opposite. Why must some people attack all things Kentucky, whether or not they are rational and lucid? BlenheimBard's article about the Tjarks post on recruiting is somewhat of an example, although it is far from the only one. Why would someone attack a post linking to a post about Calipari's prowess in producing NBA talent? The facts are pretty much indisputable in this case, and no one, not even Calipari's staunchest journalist critics will deny it. Oh, they may claim that he is bad for the college game (which is ludicrous itself), or they may claim that he is more flash than substance (which he proves wrong at almost every turn), but they still are not brave enough to claim that he is not doing the right thing by his players, and for that matter by UK itself. Kentucky Basketball is once again the center of the college world, and thriving in ways it has not seen since the Baron Of The Bluegrass himself strode the sidelines. But even this brings to mind the question, Can fans really be objective?
Can the fanbases of different schools debate and discuss subjects rationally? I would like to think so. We hold fast to the belief that A Sea Of Blue is a "Thinking Man's UK Fansite". That is, I guess, a way for us to elevate ourselves above those who speak without thinking, which may be the very definition of being a fan itself. So, can we look at things without keeping that Big Blue tint over them? My only way to answer that is this. If I wanted to hear from uneducated sources about all things Kentucky, I guess I would read everything that ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and some other sites have to offer. Whether or not other fans like it, UK fans are known for being some of the most, if not the most educated fans concerning their sport that exist in the world today. We carry an appreciation for all accomplishments in the world of college athletics and other areas as well. But are we unbiased? No. We try to present things as even handed as possible, and allow commentary on both sides of a topic so long as decorum is followed. We don't promote a lot of foul-mouthed ranting and raving, that is in our favor I believe. but no matter what we do, our home team colors are going to show a bit every now and then.
It is one thing to be a fan and be ignorant of the world and reality. It is another to be a fan and be educated about your subject matter and what it entails. We do the latter here I believe. And we allow others to disagree with us when they can do so tastefully and without personal affrontery. To me that is about an "Objective" as you can ask a fan to be.
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Objective Fans Is An Oxymoron
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
by Wild Weasel on Feb 15, 2012 11:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Don't you come in here and start throwing those hifalutin names around......lol
I may be a moron….but you don’t have to tell everyone…..lol
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 15, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
No. Fan is short for fanatic.
Or a person with “uncritical enthusiasm.” Uncritical enthusiasm does not equal objectivity.
But we have "critical enthusiam" here dont we?
I kind of always saw this site as exactly that…..
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 15, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Good point.
The analysis does point out the good as well as the bad, but I would say outsiders would definitely sample ASoB and agree that our “Blue Goggles” rarely come off. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
I come here for analysis, a sense of community that shares a love that I have, and occasionally, to argue with you!
by mrmondaynite on Feb 15, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
So my point is, for the most part, I come here because I am part of the choir that wants to be preached to...
…I guess we’re as objective as we can possible be. But the nature of the term “fan” suggests subjectivity.
by mrmondaynite on Feb 15, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
It all depends on whose ox is getting gored..
My father used to tell a story about two oxen fighting at a fair, and one spectator asking another who happened to own on of the combatants “Isn’t this exciting?” To which the owner replied, “it all depends whose ox is getting gored”.
As “fans” we often view what is happening with a similar perspective..
It is true fan is a shortened form of fanatic, and is still used with that meaning, as in example when we refer to the antics of some of the more extreme soccer fans, although the press has taken to referring to them as “hooligans” to differentiate them from the more well behaved supporters of teams. But it is also used to denote anyone who is a follower and supporter of a team or public figure, which can lead to some confusion.
I like to think that I fit in the group of “thinking UK fans” which is why I read and post here regularly, and elsewhere rarely. I root for Kentucky, but I do not support the concept of “winning at any price”. there are only a couple of opposing team that I will automatically root against, most notably Duke, I am not likely to ever forgive the “stomp” and then the “shot”, both perpetrated by the same player (may his name be forever cursed).
I even found myself rooting (for my own selfish reasons) for the Cards to beat Syracuse just the other night, and I did think they may have gotten hosed a bit by the zebras. LOL
One of the things I find we are fighting is the “big lie” or in Orwellian term “doublethink” (“To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed….” ‘1984’). In this case the constantly repeated “Calipari had two titles vacated and therefore is ‘dirty’.” It ignores the facts and draws a conclusion to benefit the viewpoint held.
And I would point out I dislike the vitriol poured out on our competition by those who “support” the Cats as much as those who pour it out on the Cats. I don’t find it necessary to put down the skills of Rivers (Duke), or Jarnell Stokes of the Vols(both teams I do not root for) to somehow promote the Cats. Am I totlally objective? No. But I try to work at being fair and a good sport in my fandom.
I posted on the UL site that they got Burrnt again.
That got a couple of positive comments. While you may feel your reason for pulling for UL over Cuse was selfish, it only made sense that a UL victory would have some benefit for UK’s number one status in the national polls and that, my friend, is a noble cause.
As for Rivers, yes he is a skillful player but he is a dookie. His game winning shot over UNC was no more of an accomplishment than the last second shot by the Fla. St. player that beat Duke, yet the media will act like it is the second coming of Laettner. I set a very high standard when it comes to forgiving dookies for their basketball heritage. So far, only Jay Bilas has achieved that.
Making waves in a sea of blue.
Fans can't really be objective.
But it isn’t just fans. There are no true objective observers unless they have no favorite teams and no biases against any. I don’t know any such people, and my guess is, they simply don’t exist, or if they do, they are too disinterested to ever offer an opinion.
The idea that newspaper writers are objective is clearly nonsense, and the same is true of television reporters and commentators.
So if you want objective, go read the box score. That’s about as close as you get.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
is that your unbiased opinion???.....lol....
Try getting broadcasters to agree with that…….
I think I may have to make a distinction between objectivity and bias where they are concerned.
Dicky V has a hard time being objective……RMK is biased…..lol
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 15, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
RMK is overtly biased,
Digger thinks he hides his bias and Dicky V has perfected the art of subjective objectivity.
Making waves in a sea of blue.
Nor, should they be objective
The true oxymoron would be “objective fan.” By definition, if you are a fan, you are biased. Now, there are probably some pure basketball fans, who don’t have any favorite teams and just love the game for its numerous qualities.
I’ve always thought that journalists should always be biased, but differently then they are now. They should be always biased against the system, always skeptical at anything a politician (or other public figure) says or does, and should embrace the idea of an adversarial press. That way the people will get the critical information they need to make decisions and public figures know they are always on trial and have to answer for their actions.
What's this you speak of? Merely saying an objective fan sounds so wrong.
Blasphemy. “-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
What I think of Cal and the current state of the program
I dismiss all those that say anything negative about Cal and his ethics – it’s just jealousy imo.
Why I do love what Cal has done for our school and the Big Blue faithful everwhere I do have a realization that Kentucky basketball is now known as being nothing more than an NBA development team. I can live with that and enjoy what each day brings and don’t worry about tomorrow. So many great players have came and went so fast that at times it’s hard keeping tabs on all of them and knowing the trend that’s been estabilshed it will go on for years to come. So be it.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Greg, …
Your problem in pursuing an answer to this question is that you are addressing a blog community formed by self-selection. As Glenn has structured and successfully promoted it, the ASOB community is a blog catering to "U of Kentucky Wildcats Sports for the Discerning Fan." And as you will no doubt agree, our community constitutes a unique site in the sports blogosphere; it’s in a category by itself in Kentucky sports and one of only a couple like it that I know about anywhere in all of college sports. That means we’re a very small minute minority.
To expand on this theme, most of us are used to thinking of the usernames we see posted here every day as the whole ASOB community but the reality is that posters are themselves a tiny minority of this entire community. [I’d like Glenn’s verification of this little bit of hand-wavy blog traffic analysis.] While the internet dominates all other sources of sports information and analysis (link), blog traffic is generally considered to be a kind of power function – only 10% of a blog’s visitors will register, only 10% of a blog’s registered users will post, only 10% of a blog’s posters will comment regularly, and 10% of your regular commenters will generate most of your respondent content. So when you ask the question, "Can ‘Fans’ Really Be Objective," your respondents on this blog are probably not terribly representative of Kentucky fans as a whole.
I can tell you that I am not ‘objective’ and I don’t even try to be. What’s more, I can tell you that I don’t think many fans (if any) are any more objective than parents are objective about their children. I try to be reasonable, but ‘reason’ always starts from a premise and if that premise isn’t neutral, then any reasoned conclusions are necessarily biased. Fans by definition are not neutral.
Am I objective???
Absolutely NOT! I bleed blue, drink the blue kool-aid and on and on it goes. I was introduced to Kentucky basketball long before I could comprehend what I was watching. I grew up a fan, am still a fan and teaching my child all about Kentucky so hopefully, she too will be a fan. My husband (the Texan) calls it brain washing. I don’t believe in cheating, hurting other players or other fans making an ass out of themselves and our BBN. I do believe that we should win every single game and by many points. Blind faith is what I’d like to call it. No, I’m not objective, not one bit and I’m not ashamed of it.
by KYGRLNNM on Feb 16, 2012 8:21 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
This should be totally green, since we can't blue it!
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Feb 16, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think if you get 5 or 10 rec's it should turn BLUE
There’s a few posts that should be “extra recommended” and of course we know what color that should be.
As Glenn says above
true objectivity is all but impossible (by anyone) unless something is boiled down to it’s mathematical roots or what have you. Everyone has personal experience, and thousands upon thousands of subtle and accumulating influences which they are hardly even aware of that shape their perceptions.
You might want to take it to a whole different level with fans, and ask whether they actively cultivate biases (I say definitely for most of them), or whether the influences are so strong and consistent that they are easily discerned (again yes IMO). So sports fans may be even less objective than other classes, and I would have to agree that it’s true.
There are some fans who realize their biases and can abandon them to think critically, but emotionally the biases are always there I’d say. And that’s really what unifies fanbases so effectively.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Objectivity is possible
When we are analyzing the team’s play. I’m a fan of many sports teams in many sports, and I can honestly say that UK fans are some of the best at taking “the hard look” at their current team. I think all fans, even BBN, have the ability to objectively assess their team against others in the country. I would go so far as to say that that ability is part of what being a true fan is — it allows you to truly appreciate the talented teams when they come along. It’s why I don’t pick UK to win the brackets every single year, even though I’ll gladly lose that bet every time.
But I don’t think it’s possible to be objective about your team when others are talking about your team. It’s kind of like your family — I can talk about my brother all day, but the day YOU start talking about my brother, I’ll whup your butt.
I do think that the BBN, even those on this here site, tend to get too worked up over what others think of us. I like being voted #1, but it’s not something that validates the team to me. I would love to see Cal get COY; he deserves it. But I don’t think not getting that will invalidate what he’s done this season. And I think that we lose sight that sometimes UK benefits from its name and history just as much as it sometimes gets punished for it. But hey, that’s what being a fan is all about!
You can put it on the board....YES.
Hard Look does not always equal objectivity.
Too many are too quick to voice their displeasure in a player’s below par performance and derive conclusions about effort or capability. One poster earlier this year said something along the lines of he demanded better performance from players. How can this person fairly and objectively assess how a player performed if he starts out with unreasonable expectations?
Making waves in a sea of blue.
I am hearing a "We Are Kentucky" rebuttal.....somewhere in your future.....lol
I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Feb 16, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I realize that last sentence did not really convey my point.
It is not necessarily unreasonable to expect good performance. A fan demanding good performance when they are in no position what so ever to do anything about it but complain and place blame has already determined a lack of objectivity. Last year in the early season, we had a poster who proclaimed Liggins to be a waste of scholarship. He could not build an objective argument for his position, only the subjectivity of being displeased with his performance.
Making waves in a sea of blue.










