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Twitter Fight After the Kentucky at Auburn Game Between Matt Jones and Kyle Tucker

This morning, I checked my Twitter feed, as usual, to see what the chatter was all about. I have a list of particular people I pay special attention to for news without all the extra chatter of the many friends and acquaintances I follow. These are people like newspaper reporters, ESPN guys, the Rivals site, the Scout site, KSR and the like.

This morning, I open up my feed and see a list of posts from Kyle Tucker, the recent hire by the Louisville Courier-Journal to replace the departed Bret Dawson, who covered the UK sports beat, apparently blasting Kentucky Sports Radio's Matt Jones for a tweet he posted shortly before. Follow me past the jump to see the sequence.

Star-divide

Jones-tucker_medium

I thought it was a little bit unusual to see a sequence like that without any commentary from Jones - Matt is not exactly known for being a shrinking violet when he is challenged like that. A closer look at my Twitter client reveals a conversation between the two of them which no longer appears in the Twitter timeline of Jones, which suggests those tweets have since been deleted. Here is the entire conversation, in reverse order (i.e. the tweet that started it all is on the bottom):

KySportsRadio: @KyleTucker_CJ I wrote bad things about him as an uniformed fan. Same as you believe I am

KyleTucker_CJ: @KySportsRadio Parting thought: What was it you wrote about Calipari before he came to UK? But it's me who's somehow treating him unfairly?

KySportsRadio: @KyleTucker_CJ haha I never had you pegged for an internet tough guy Kyle. I really didnt

KySportsRadio: @KyleTucker_CJ and my comments on your hair are always said with envy. I would kill to be able to grow long hair and it not be awful

KyleTucker_CJ: @KySportsRadio You are a child. I'm tired of it. Do your own thing. Cover the team. And shut your mouth about me.

KySportsRadio: @KyleTucker_CJ Yeah I will take the role of hall monitor for the media...u guys do it for others and HATE when it is done to you.

KyleTucker_CJ: @KySportsRadio Which makes your chronicling my hair style or critiquing how every real reporter asks a question what exactly, hall monitor?

KySportsRadio: @KyleTucker_CJ I was just noting the glee with which u and Jerry seemed to dispute his comments. Very hall monitor-esque

KyleTucker_CJ: @KySportsRadio Your neverending need to tear down others and paint yourself as hero for UK fans is quite telling.

KyleTucker_CJ: @KySportsRadio Or I was just having some fun with one of Cal's favorite lines. Not trying to "poke holes" in anything.

KySportsRadio: Glad Calipari sent out the tweet...the UK hall monitors Tipton and Kyle Tucker take so much glee in poking any holes in anything Cal/UK does

First of all, I have no idea of the back story, if there is one, between these two guys. Jones and Tucker are no doubt acquainted from covering Kentucky games, and whether this was Jones just popping off for a dimly-perceived slight to excite his followers (which many of us bloggers do, from time to time, including me), or if there is genuine bad blood between these guys, I have no idea. It does seem, though, that Tucker made an incredibly benign comment in which I was unable detect any anti-Calipari intent.

I'm not really sure why Matt felt the need to delete his half of the conversation, if that is in fact what happened. It could be something else, I suppose -- the Internet is a weird place, and strange things happen all the time.

But whatever the case, to my mind, Tucker said or implied nothing at all untoward about Calipari, and in my view from what I am able to recreate from admittedly strange and possibly incomplete evidence, Jones started a fight that he had no business starting. I carefully read Tucker's articles on the Courier-Journal, and I have never seen anything but a very professional young reporter doing his job, and doing it well. In my view, he is significantly more active than Dawson was on the UK beat when he was at the CJ, and Tucker has been nothing but fair to Calipari in his public utterances, insofar as I am aware.

On the other hand, who knows what Kyle really thinks of Coach Cal? Not me. But as a fellow Hilltopper and he gets a bit of slack from me given what I have seen from him, and being from Clarksville doesn't hurt -- that was my favorite Tennessee town in college because it was just across the border, and the drinking age in the Volunteer state in those days was 18 vs. 21 in Kentucky. We had a lot of good times down there at a place called the Water Company, I believe, which was a big bar with all kinds of interesting features. We also frequently feasted in a Mexican restaurant known as El Palacio, which was just awesome. But I digress.

So what was that all about? I wish I knew.

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Heh.

+1

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 12, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I have another oh snap gif

But it might be borderline for ASOB….

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

+2

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome coop!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha!

Simply terrific. Must. Be. Green.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 12, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

terrific bt

I don’t care a lick about any of this – but I am glad it happened just for the gifs!

Statistics is the part of mathematics that God didn't invent. - Ethan Smith

by JLeverenz on Jan 12, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't have any insight into that

But I’ve met Parrish once, and I know which one I would side with in a basketball argument, which one I would rather hang out with and which one I would guess is right when it comes to just about anything.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Matt learned his media style

from Rush Limbaugh. Play to your “minions” with outrageous, unsubstantiated attacks while adopting a superior attitude that what he is saying is unchallengeable. I have tried listening to his post game radio show and I have been amazed at the lack of basketball knowledge he has. Reading his blog shows that most of his followers are extremely juvenile and equally unknowledgeable. For those that have never visited KSR, I recommend it solely for the purpose of comparison to this site. Just be sure to wear proper personal protective equipment and take at least three showers after-wards so that you can feel completely decontaminated.

Making waves in a sea of blue.

by kywineman on Jan 12, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh! You mean the K in KSR isn't for kindergarten?

Yes I have followed links from here to KSR and no matter how good the story they have posted, the comments are drivel. A well reasoned argument on a point there might consist of “#8 you suck, U R a turdinals fan, jerkoff.” They generally devolve from there.
When noted here I follow the story and skip noises from the forest, thus generally bypassing the need for the multiple showers. YMMV

by blenheim bard on Jan 12, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Good comments are indeed rare at KSR.

But there is a gem or two to be found, if you have the patience of a gold miner. It’s easy to skip through the worthless ones. One gal in particular I like.

by Wheatgerm on Jan 12, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This is the exact same conclusion that I came to, wineman

.
over a month or so ago, and is the reason I have not read a single post on KSR since. Nothing drastic, I just haven’t been back. Too much ego for my taste.

I will admit that the one thing I do miss about it is that KSR seemed to be on top of things, or even break some news, so I do miss that. But other than that, it is not like there is a shortage of UK basketball news out in internet land.

The thing I am wondering is how long the founders of that site can keep up this pace. They are already in their 30’s, catering to kids in their early 20’s. That can’t go on forever, can it?

.

"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N. Young

by HSLex on Jan 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Double Standard?

Why all the negative remarks of KSR. I can understand if its not your cup to tea but there is no reason to make fun of the people that like it, me being one. Its just different from the norm and that is what I like about it. Just like why I like this sight. This sights articles are written with care and love of the program and players but also speaks the truth about events, players performances and honest critiques.
I dont think its fair to judge the people who like it. Yes they do at KSR but when you do the same and then act as though you are somehow doing anything different its very insulting. We are all UK fans in the end. Just like people are different, so are websites. I was meaning this comment for the last few comments, not the author of the story.

by michael26 on Jan 13, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There are many good posts on KSR

but there are as many if not more that go something like “Oh yeah, well your mother…..”. This is not exactly conducive to a well thought out discussion of basketball.

I particularly do not like the format on that site. To see if anyone responded to your comment, you have to scroll all of the comments.

Making waves in a sea of blue.

by kywineman on Jan 13, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

American by birth, Kentuckian by the grace of God.

by tom4nash on Jan 12, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

while you are right, this whole fight is tucker's fault

he’s the professional & he never should have responded.

this is not the first time he’s gotten into a twitter fight with jones.

knowing that matt is just trolling the media, the best option for them is to #justskipit

by 'tHan on Jan 12, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree that he should be left alone

but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was all Kyle’s fault. Matt nips and nips and nips, and while the best response is to ignore him, sometimes human emotion gets the best of people. Kyle is really new to the beat, and while Matt’s shit is old hat to the other writers, it’s all pretty new to Kyle. I would imagine, though, that in the future he will stick to a nolo contendere strategy.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

i expect his bosses will have a word with him

if journalists are able to only focus on their job & lose their rooting interests, they should also be able to only focus on their jobs & ignore blog trolls

by 'tHan on Jan 12, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Trust me

If there’s one thing I know for sure, it’s that his bosses will definitely have a word with him. He’s probably already had a two-hour conversation about it.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Journalists are people too....

And they all believe that their thoughts and opinions have greater validity than anyone else. Having spent a couple of decades as a paid journalist, I can attest to the fact that a majority of journalists have utter contempt for anyone that would challenge their pronouncements. When someone in the media makes a biased or utterly stupid comment (like Tucker’s cutesy, look-how-clever-I-am Compass Bowl remark) why is it so wrong to call them out on it? I have a feeling that Matt Jones doesn’t give a damn who wants to sit by him in the media room and who doesn’t. But I guarantee that if he and Mr. Tucker had a sparring match in the stands at Rupp on a game night, Jones would have 20,000+ in his corner cheering him on. This “go along to get along” crap with the media is tired and doesn’t serve the public good in any way. The more pompous media members can be called out for their failings, the better.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Short version...

Tucker’s snide remark fell flat, he got smacked for it and then he got pissy. Good for Jones.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

that's not what happened in my opinion.

but to each his own. Matt Jones is a true shithead though.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So you are okay...

with Tucker playing the smartass with his Compass Bowl comment, but you aren’t ok with Jones calling him out about it?

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Then you are operating...

with only half of the information. What started the entire thing was a Tipton post about Auburn’s crowd not looking like a sellout 15 minutes before tipoff. Tucker replied to his tweet with a comment that apparently Kentucky is not everyone’s Super Bowl..sometimes they are the Compass Bowl. A smart remark by Tucker is what opened the whole can of worms. That is why Jones called him a hall monitor.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

How is that a smart remark

He was making a joke about a line that Calipari says in nearly every press conference. The fact that Matt would get up in arms and offended over that is exactly what I’m talking about.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with that is two-fold...

First, it was dead wrong. The game was a sell-out and agruably the best crowd Auburn will have all season.

Secondly, if you follow Kentucky basketball, especially in the past two years, then you know that we always get an opponent’s best game on the road every night. That has been cited literally hundreds of times on this very site. Most of the posters on here have made a comment at one time or the other that we always get this team’s best game or that team’s best game. Hell, SEC fans, coaches and ADs all talk about looking forward to Kentucky coming to town because most of the time it’s one of only two or three games they will sell out.
You don’t like Matt Jones and that’s fine but if Tucker is going to make jokes and snide remarks, he needs to be ready to defend them or back off when he is in the wrong.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The point isn't whether it's true that UK gets other teams' best games

that’s undisputed by everyone. the joke is related to the actual words Calipari uses over and over. For a UK beat reporter, it becomes comical when he brings up every day that UK is everyone’s super bowl. You can set your watch by it. That’s the joke.

And Auburn just built a small new arena, and the crowd was sparse to start the game. Once the crowd filled in and got raucous, Kyle said on Twitter that he’d have to take back his previous comment and that the crowd was wild. There’s no “in the wrong” about it. It was a little joke about a line that Calipari uses all the time, and Matt (and you, apparently) treat it like Kyle is on an anti-Cal crusade. I’m sorry you feel that way. That’s not what’s going on.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think...

Mr. Tucker is on any kind of crusade. I feel that Mr. Tucker believes Twitter allows him the freedom to say things that he couldn’t put in a story and that when he makes off-the-cuff remarks in a tweet, it shouldn’t reflect on his professional persona.

Yes, Cal makes the Super Bowl comment on a regular basis. But he says that because it happens to be true. Regardless of his intent, Mr. Tucker’s comment reads like he is distainful of fact that Kentucky’s fans and its coach believe that it is a big deal when the Cats pay a visit to one of their SEC brothers.

It wouldn’t have been an issue at all if he had simply said “Looking at the early crowd, this may not be a sell-out”. Instead, he chose to be cute and he got hammered in his quest for cuteness.

Media members can’t separate what they put in a column from what they tweet or post on a message board – it is all a part of their body of work. And I suspect that he would not have made his Compass Bowl comment on the sports page.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

As far as Jones...

is concerned, he approaches everything from the perspective of a fan. I enjoy his site just as I enjoy this one. It is possible to enjoy both “The King’s Speech” and “Caddyshack”.

He and his buddies at KSR are living the dream and I am happy for them. They get to make fun of people who take themselves way too seriously and they get to go to basketball games. Sounds like a dream job to me.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I totally agree

That’s why it’s so sad that instead of living his dream, he chooses to pick fights with the media like a little boy.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't really see anything wrong with injecting personality into a twitter account

If that comment reads like disdain to you, then like I said, I’m not sure I can convince you otherwise. I don’t think most people read that as disdainful.

by Rick House on Jan 12, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If you are putting it out there...

for public consumption, you cannot separate the two. Where would you draw the line? Would it be ok for him to take to his Twitter account to say, in a cute way, that Cal was full of crap? Or that Cal was a self-important jerk?

This is not just a problem for Mr. Tucker. Since social media made this world possible, the lines have blurred. Media people want to be able to spout off about anything they feel like and they want everyone to think they are funny and clever. Traditional roles in journalism constrain the creative aspect of writing to a certain extent.

Matt Jones failed at CBSports.com because he was a round blogger trying to fit in a square journalistic hole. The reverse is also true. You can’t be a trusted source for serious information and play the class clown at the same time.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't aware...

….that being a professional journalist and having a sense of humour is mutually exclusive. Some of my favorite hacks have wicked streaks of wit. Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon are hilarious and I doubt anyone impartial would question that they’re serious journalists.

Tucker’s mistake was taking the bait on Jones’s snarky remarks. Whether or not you like Matt or not, it’s difficult to deny that his snarky frat-boy humour drives his sending ups. Matt is a windup merchant. You get adolescent sniping, such as we have witnessed, when you let it get to you. Matt got exactly what he wanted out of Tucker. I have no doubt he laughed at Tucker because of it.

Tucker would be much better off taking the high road and leave the lower path to Jones.

American by birth, Kentuckian by the grace of God.

by tom4nash on Jan 12, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, you are confusing...

reporters with commentators. Kornheiser and Wilbon are commentators not beat reporters. And in print they are the feature writers of the sports world. Competely different set of professional requirements and, in most cases, skills.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Jones may go overboard on the anti Calipari people but I’ll take it because we need some balance to counter all the ignorance that exists nationwide. I’ve read dozens of Tipton pieces spanning more than a decade and his bias can not be denied.

Does Jones have his flaws? Of course. But at least we know where his loyalties lie.

by Clandestine on Jan 12, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

One of the best pieces I have read on this blog.

by jdogblue on Jan 13, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, Jdog

That’s extremely high praise. Not sure I deserve it, Glenn, Ken and everybody else who posts on A Sea of Blue are fantastic.

by TeamWeaver on Jan 13, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This is largely true, TeamWeaver
In a media career, success is determined by the audience he reaches and the dollars his sponsors are willing to pay.

I have no problem with this statement. But it is not a complete definition, as there are some who would also add an additional element that considers the actual quality of the work in a definition of “success”. Not to say that KSR cannot, or has not, offered both at times.

Matt Jones, on the other hand, gets it. Jones, as the self-appointed “Voice of the Kentucky Fan,” is a passionate defender of Kentucky’s fans, teams, coaches and programs against any and all comers. For him the interests of Kentucky fans come first. Love him or hate him, you know where his loyalties lie.

No dobut. That is a good thing.

I guess where I lost interest is the part where, despite the writing in humorous styles and whatnot, the founder actually comes across as taking himself very, very seriously. He is definitely not one of those “takes as good as he gives” types. That just takes away from the whole fun of it, to me. I guess I am not seeing the <wink, wink> in the process. Is it there?

It does make sense that all of this would do well (hits and advertisers) with a fanbase, though. (And not just UK’s. The formula could work well with many fanbases out there.)

.

"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N. Young

by HSLex on Jan 13, 2012 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

My take on Matt Jones

I don’t love or hate him. I think he has many flaws, but there are some good things he does as well. His biggest flaw to me is his focus on Louisville. Most days I listen to his radio show on podcast, and the other day I had to turn it off about halfway through because he spent his entire show on Louisville’s loss to Providence.

Part of the problem with the KSR website is that it isn’t as lean as it used to be. When I say that, I mean there are way too many wannabe writers on the site now that brings the quality down. When it was just Matt and a couple other people writing, it was a good site. I think some of the “Hate Day” stuff went over the line as well, and ended up being an embarassment. When Matt and KSR stick to covering Kentucky, they do a good job most of the time.

Matt also sometimes contradicts himself in the way he goes about his business. On the one hand, he is a self proclaimed media watchdog that likes to point out when others say/do something stupid. Yet, when he does the same he gets incredibly defensive when called out on it. He also likes to portray himself as an insider that gives information to the fans that you can’t get anywhere else. Yet, he’ll tease some juicy nugget of information then say “Well, I can’t talk about that.” That sometimes comes off in a “I know something you don’t know, nanny nanny boo boo” manner.

Now that I’ve trashed him….he has done a very good job covering the Rupp Arena renovation project. He also did a relly good job covering the Billy Gillispie stuff when no one else really was touching on the negativity that was surounding the program.

Bottom line: I don’t hate or love Matt, I like him. I like him more when he is focused on Kentucky. The KSR website isn’t what it used to be, but you can still find good articles most days.

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 13, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i don't know where this idea that Matt or KSR "breaks news" comes from

he has a well documented history of taking news from other sites & posting it as his own.

maggard has posted made up info several times as a test. each time the fake news winds up on KSR as if it’s their own.

basically, any breaking news on that site is stolen from somewhere else

by 'tHan on Jan 13, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I like this summary, btcoop

.
I don’t think it has to come down to “love or hate”, either.

I am squarely in the take it or leave it, just not visiting the site anymore camp. Nothing drastic.

The slogan/tagline for the site is: “University of Kentucky Basketball, Football, and Recruiting news brought to you in the most ridiculous manner possible.” That slogan does suggest, at least to me, a certain amount of levity, and things not taken so seriously. Maybe that was true early on, I don’t know. But I do think there is some ‘thin skin’ over there- which I am not sure fits so well with that slogan.

.

.

"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N. Young

by HSLex on Jan 13, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand your position, HSLex, and believe me when I say, "I feel your pain,"...

but, imo, ‘quality’ in this circumstance is like pornography, in the eye of the beholder – entirely subjective.

by TeamWeaver on Jan 13, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I read all this and pretty much agree with most of it

I “get” that fans want to hear only really positive stuff about their teams, and that’s the way it should be. And I agree that sports journalism shouldn’t take itself as seriously as it does. These are games, and objectivity in sports isn’t nearly as important in sports as in other elements of news. And I think fan bloggers like Matt are the future of the industry.

But that gets back to my point. Matt doesn’t know technically how to write, report, create a story, etc. And judging by his skills dealing with other media members, he is probably very bad at cultivating long-term relationships with sources. I have no idea if people outside the media like him, but imagine if he treated, say, Tom Crean the way he treats Kyle Tucker or Jerry Tipton or Eric Crawford or any of the other writers. Crean would never talk to him again, and he would become a much less effective reporter when the Indiana game came around because of it. (This is just one example of one guy. After covering the beat for many year, he would build certain relationships with all of his sources, and I can only imagine most of them would not be good.)

I have absolutely no problem with Matt being a fan blogger and embodying the fan. I think that’s great, and Matt’s “success” at building his blog attests to how well he’s stoked that fire among fans. My criticisms of him lay completely on his disdain for the media and ever getting better at being a journalist. It’s not just getting lots of followers and web hits. You have to do a good job too, or you’re letting your fan base down without them even knowing it. The experience of being a UK fan would be worse if we only had Matt Jones to listen to, because we’d only hear one VERY BIASED opinion and every news story would be framed around that opinion. That’s why even sports journalists need to exercise objectivity.

Oh, and my other point was that Matt is a total douchebag to all the other writers, which is just rude and childish. No, you don’t have to be friends with them, but be a human being for Christ’s sake.

by Rick House on Jan 13, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Matt Jones...

is not a journalist. Matt Jones doesn’t want to be a journalist. Matt Jones is a blogger. Matt Jones’ job is to pop off ridiculous comments and make fun of anything and everything that catches his eye. He is supposed to mock the absurd and call out the pious and the self-important.

Unless the Courier-Journal has ceased to be a professional journalistic enterprise and has morphed into a blog (which some would agrue is actually the case), then Mr. Tucker lives by different professional standars than Matt Jones and Co. Every time he mocks the thing he is supposed to be objective about, it diminishes his ability to claim that objectivity. And it gives the Matt Joneses of the world openings to point that out to the rest of us.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

This is another thing people need to wrap their heads around

There’s no difference between a blog and any other medium (like newspapers, or magazines, or TV). Those are all just methods of telling stories, which is the crux of journalism. Journalism doesn’t mean wearing khakis and scribbling in a notebook and not talking in the press box. It just means telling stories. And that’s what Matt does. He sits on press row. He goes to press conferences. He interviews players and coaches. He is definitely in the press, a media member, and a journalist. The fact that he writes his stuff in a blog and has a radio show makes no difference. The fact that he’s a fan makes no difference. He gathers information and figures out how to convey that information in stories to an audience. Just like every other media member.

And he’s really bad at a lot of the things journalists do. He doesn’t live by different standards; he lives by the same standards and fails at them. That’s my problem. You’re right that Kyle probably should have said nothing. But for every backbite Matt gets from other media members, there are 20 times he says or does something shitty and the other person just bites his or her tongue.

by Rick House on Jan 13, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, Matt Jones would certainly like you.

You just validated his existence and reduced the Courier-Journal and Herald-Leader to fansite level in two paragraphs.

If that what you stated above is truly the case, then Keige Ramsey is the equivalent of Ted Koppel because Keige has a camera and the ability to post his videos on YouTube.

You like media guys and don’t like Matt Jones and that’s fine. But you’re trying desperately to make a connection that simply does not exist. Matt Jones is the owner and blogger on a fansite of his own creation. He is most certainly not a professional journalist.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I'm right.

It took me probably at least five years after becoming a journalist to truly realize this, but a journalist’s job is to tell stories. That’s it. The best ones tell the best stories. The worst ones tell the worst stories.

Matt doesn’t have a journalism degree, doesn’t work for anyone who has a journalism degree, and doesn’t have the first clue how to behave as a journalist. By those standards (and those seem to be your standards), he’s not a journalist.

But he sure as hell does everything a sports journalist does. He goes to games and sits on press row. He talks to players and coaches. He has to abide by DeWayne Peevey’s rules. He informs (to a certain degree) his audience. He tells stories. He is a journalist. And he is a professional journalist — he pays the bills now with his blog and radio show.

I didn’t validate his blog’s existence; he did that years ago when he managed to start getting press passes. I didn’t reduce the CJ and HL; I’m using them as higher standards that Matt fails reach. Newspapers don’t think Matt’s a journalist. And Matt doesn’t think he’s a journalist, which is a big part of the problem. But he is.

by Rick House on Jan 13, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask Mr. Tucker or Mr. Bozich...

if they consider Matt Jones a professional journalist.

Cite one instance from KSR where he has posted anything other than an opinion piece scattered with a few stats and quotes.

His fight to get press credentials had nothing to do with claiming that his site was a legitimate news organization. His argument was and continues to be that his fansite deserves to have access to the the sports programs at UK and elsewhere because they provide an unfiltered service to the fanbase. That is why the media threw such a screaming fit to keep them out. They felt it diminished their importance if some Common Joe fan enjoyed the same privileges they had kept to themselves.

He’s no different than a TwiHard who blogs about Jacob and scores free movie passes. What is confusing your analysis is the scope of his fansite. And you can give him all the credit for building and expanding that scope. He has filled a gap in the universe for a whole lot of fans. But his thing is not about journalism in any way, shape or form.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

You're making my point

I just said newspapers don’t consider him a journalist. And I just said he fails to do what he does well.

by Rick House on Jan 13, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't all of this really about much bigger fish

than Jones and Tucker. Isn’t this about the death throws of the traditional media resulting from the new found power of the internet? Information spreads so quickly and reaches so many more people potentially through online communication than printed or even televised medias. Matt Jones represents a major threat to the profession of traditional print sportswriters and that is why they tried to limit his access to games and the teams.

Making waves in a sea of blue.

by kywineman on Jan 13, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

But it is also something...

deeper and more sinister in my opinion.

The last time I sat on press row for a Kentucky basketball game, C.M. Newton was our athletic director. But the guys sharing the seats in those days are no different than the behinds that occupy them now. I still talk regularly with working journalists and their distaste for bloggers comes from a darker place.

Most that I have spoken with on matters of this type are offended that someone with no classical training in the art has been granted an audience with the King. I had one venerable gentleman tell me that giving press credentials to a bunch of fans (and he spoke that word like he had a bad taste in his mouth) was an affront of journalists everywhere because they simply were not worthy of it.

They have been the gatekeepers of truth for a long time. And now a member of the great unwashed is not only occupying the castle they built, he is mocking the manner in which they built it.

The real issue is the arrogance their status instilled in them. Their faults and failings are pointed out to them every day. And Matt Jones loves to rub their faces in it.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 14, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What you say is true...

of all professions and most professionals. But again, Matt Jones is not trying to do what they do. He claims no objectivity but is passionate in his belief that bloggers like himself deserve access to the inner sanctum so as to provide their audience with the insight and perspective they want but have never gotten from media sources.

Through their own blogs and forums and Twitter accounts, the media is trying to muscle in on the blogger’s territory because they fear too much democracy. What they don’t realize is there would be room for both if they would only embrace the founding principles of their profession and provide a quality, objective product and leave the funhouse stuff to those who are good at it.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 14, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's face it,

blogging is new ground and Matt Jones is a plow. The internet has made it easier for everyone, regardless of background and education, to get their opinion out there for the world to see. Barring laws that restrict the internet to the point that it shuts off free speech, this is the future and the existing media structure could face the fate of the dinosaurs.

There are some professions where formal education is not necessary for success if a person has the skill set to perform well. I am a self taught winemaker but I have won major awards. I have also been talked down to by formally trained winemakers who have not achieved the same level of recognition. By my observations there are instances where the accepted level of training can actually be a hindrance to performance and creativity, especially when you get into that new ground. I wonder which institution of higher education will be the first to offer Blogging 101?

Making waves in a sea of blue.

by kywineman on Jan 14, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Now you are starting to sound...

like my wife when she feels an argument slipping away. Alas, misdirection will not work.

You have written hundreds of words trying to convince everyone that Matt Jones is a journalist and as such should play by Marquis of Queensbury rules when it comes to members of the media. Now you want to take the myriad of reasons I gave to demonstrate why he is not a journalist and claim theyt prove YOUR point?

You have completely redefined an entire profession. By your new definition, the used-to-be exclusive club of journalists now includes Matt Jones and my 6-year-old daughter, who blogs on her school website about her favorite Littlest Petshops and the best Easy Bake Oven recipes.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 14, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I have followed every comment of this discussion and

It has been interesting to me. I have seen Matt basically shunned (yes, I am also entertained by being a people watcher) at a couple of media events and I had been wondering why.
Also, your last paragraph made me smile!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 14, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions  

im really not trying to convince anyone of any new idea

im trying to explain to you what ive learned over the last 10 or so years that i’ve been in journalism. if you dont want to listen, fine. but i know what im talking about.

by Rick House on Jan 14, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Twitter

Why do two supposedly grown men want to have their schoolyard fight broadcast to the entire world (and then archived for eternity) and more importantly, why do so many people want to read it?

This is a prime example of why I find Twitter completely and utter pointless, and will dance down the street the day people finally figure that out.

You can put it on the board....YES.

by twocee on Jan 12, 2012 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

Don't Blame The Messenger (Twitter)

As an individual stock/option/bond trader I find Twitter to be indispensable — truly Wall Street 2.0.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

by Wild Weasel on Jan 12, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

You should follow me

I’m entertaining

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I was on Twitter briefly

under the name PADeerLover. I’m from Pennsylvania.

by mrmondaynite on Jan 12, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Buried amongst endless bullshit.

Unless they create some kind of intensive filter, I’ll stick to KSR, ASoB, ProFootballTalk & CollegeFootballTalk.

And Women’s Monthly.

by mrmondaynite on Jan 12, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree. It needs a intensive filter.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

You have to self-filter it

Depending on who you follow.

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I do self-filter. Haven't deleted you, yet. ;-)

Who knows what would happen if I checked it more than once a month though.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you follow me?

If not, you should (that’s now 3 mrmondaynite)

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I have for months coop.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Since your first shameless twitter act! :-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Am I following you?

/I’m clueless

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope. :-)

My tweets are not follow worthy.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

What is your twitter name

I’ll rectify the non-following issue.

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

But I never tweet. Two or three times in 3 years!

If I post it, it will result in my having to go block people I don’t know. Like the recent ones I had to block that are total unknown spam accounts of those looking for a good time and all kinds of other things. ;-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

You can send me a DM!

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Only TO my followers. which doesn't include you as of yet.

I will send you one. Then delete it. You must be after more numbers. :-D

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 12, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I love twitter

You should follow me!

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

was that the bar with the sliding board ?

I vaguely remember havin a fun nite there once lol

by Bluehound on Jan 12, 2012 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Tipton

The whole argument started with a Jerry Tipton tweet that Kyle chimed in on.

by bkalston on Jan 12, 2012 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

Missing the point...

A lot of you seem to have a genuine dislike for Matt Jones that I simply don’t understand. He’s a FAN…not a professional journalist. Even when working for CBS, he said repeatedly that he was not a professional journalist and had no desire to become one.

The Twitter info posted here is incomplete Glenn. According to Jones, it all began when Tipton sent out a tweet a few minutes before game time that basically claiming that the game was no where close to being sold out. Jones says Tucker followed that up with a comment to the effect that apparently UK is not everyone’s Super Bowl…that sometimes they are the Compass Bowl.

Regardless of which side of this debate you come down on, Tucker’s tweet is snarky at best. If you feel like you have to make a comment like that, you should have the stones take the hits that will follow. As it turns out, we are the closest thing Auburn basketball has to a Super Bowl because the game was, in fact, sold out.

The problem here is the local media and how they deal with the fact that fans can now talk back. Until the internet came along, journalists had every right to believe they were gods. Their work stood unchallenged because the people didn’t have a voice. If some Random Joe was offended enough by their work to write a letter to the editor, they could laugh it off as a lone nut. They are taught that their responsiblity is to tell people what is important. So what always became important is what they chose to write. The problem is that in today’s world the gods are challenged because anyone with a smartphone and a few minutes to kill can explain in depth why they are wrong.

As is often the case these days, the true feelings a lot of journalists seem to come out through social media. What they can’t say outright in a column they can still convey through Twitter. Mr. Tucker exposes his own feelings for Cal by basically telling Jones “Hey, before he came to Kentucky you agreed with me that he was a douchebag”.

Matt Jones is a lot of things and not all of them are good. But he gives a voice to common fans who agree with much (not all but much) of what he says. Journalists should be held accountable for the comments they make and Tucker’s Compass Bowl comment was ridiculous. His problem is that after it was proven ridiculous, he should have kept him mouth shut and taken his medicine.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 12, 2012 3:01 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the comment.

In my view, Tipton’s tweet was irrelevant. I know he sent it, but it was only a peripheral thing, and I wouldn’t have even remarked on it if he had made the comment to Tipton and not Tucker — Tipton does have curmudgeonly issues that Matt has rightly pointed out more than once, and so have I.

We will agree to disagree about Tucker’s tweet. In my opinion, it was not snarky at all. Not even a little.

True feelings can’t really be discerned through social media, as this incident likely illustrates. Tucker’s comment doesn’t necessarily implicate him, and a lot of us, including me, thought Calipari was a douchebag before we took the trouble to learn otherwise for ourselves. But even if I grant that Tucker actually thinks what you suggest for the sake of argument, there is no evidence it colors his reporting.

Finally, there is the matter of Matt deleting the tweets that he made. I can’t quite figure out why he did that, but if I were a suspicious person (which I actually am not), I can come up with numerous unfavorable (to Matt, anyway) scenarios, and not one that justifies what he did other than an embarrassed reaction, which is understandable.

In any event, I’m not beating on Matt. After reviewing the incident, I think it’s clear Matt wasn’t justified in provoking that fight. You are free to disagree with that, and I’ll even grant the remote possibility that Tucker’s post was intentionally provocative. Even if it was, it certainly didn’t deserve the comment Matt made. He could have simply tweeted or DM’d Tucker and asked him for clarification.

In any case, this is interesting only for the apparent over-reaction by both parties. Tucker should have probably ignored the comment and taken the high ground — he is a trained professional journalist, after all, not a random blogger like me or whatever niche Jones fits into. Not sure why he felt the need to react defensively, but it could just be a lack of maturity on the part of both of them.

For the record, this doesn’t change my opinion of either man. I like them both just fine, always have.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 12, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks Teamweaver!

That gave me the missing pieces I was trying to put together!

I do think Matt Jones “hall monitor” comment was funnier and less “snarky” than the compass bowl remark was meant to be.

Why am I not surprised that Tipton set the whole thing off to begin with??

I say “good job Matt Jones”! But thats just my humble opinion.

by ANGx01 on Jan 13, 2012 12:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It's true, I am not aware of any "tiff" between the two.

To be fair to both, I have little time to monitor such things. I came across this one purely by accident.

With that said, there are two things that I think are relatively undeniable:
1) Tucker’s “gigs” of Calipari, in this instance at least, were quite benign by any reasonable standard. I have personally gigged Cal much harder and perhaps less fairly.
2) Jones was attempting to provoke a response from Tucker, and succeeded.

It matters little, but I stand by my position that Jones had no business starting it. I also would state that it speaks rather poorly of Tucker for even bothering to engage. We bloggers occasionally provoke things — that’s what we do. Media should act like they are above reaction to that, or at least, that’s how I see it.

From what I have seen of Jones’ comments, he has made several unfair attacks on journalists. That’s just my opinion, and frankly, that’s fine by me, I have made a few unfair attacks on journalists myself. We all do. But there’s no reason for Jones to act all surprised when someone like Tucker decides to take umbrage, and I am never in favor of deleting part of a real-time conversation. That’s hard to understand. When you make them, you should live with them, especially when it was an escalation. The way the timeline reads now, it looks like a vast overreaction from Tucker, which in context, it clearly wasn’t.

Again, I’m not down on Jones. I like Matt, always have, in spite of “the things I have heard,” (scare quotes intentional) which I choose to ignore. But I call them as I see them, and I think this is pretty straightforwardly just like I described.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 14, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't get the deleting of the tweets

You say it, own it. Don’t delete it. I say stupid things all the time on twitter, but I don’t delete them.

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jan 13, 2012 8:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

If there is any part of this affair that is actually “troubling,” and I’m not sure there is, that’s it.

You say it, you own it. I’m stealing it. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 14, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand your issue here, and agree. :-)

I don’t remember the tweets that were deleted as being significant to the squabble but deleting them certainly hurts Jones case.

by TeamWeaver on Jan 14, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course they were.

You can read them above, in my post, in the grey block.

My Twitter client didn’t delete them. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 14, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't say it colored...

his “reporting”. My whole point in all of the postings on this thread is a simple one…beat writers need to watch what they say on social media outlets because it becomes a part of their body of work. You can’t make repeated snide remarks about a subject on Twitter and then claim objectivity on the same subject in your straight reporting – it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every beat writer thinks they should be doing features and many are using Twitter and blog posts to display their rapier wits. IMO Mr. Tucker was displaying just such a disposition with his Tweets. He was out of line and I would put this week’s check at risk in betting that he was told something along those lines by his bosses.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

BTW, I caught part of the KSR

radio show yesterday and Jones actually asked Ryan Lemond and Tony Vanetti if he was out of line. Predictably, they both said basically the same thing – don’t call out members of our little media family because we are all supposed to be in this together. That’s a bogus argument. No one is above being called down when they step out of line. The fact that this has gone on for decades is the reason we have people like Jerry Tipton. Nonsense like the Patrick Patterson shiny new truck story and the dust-up over Milchael Kidd-Gilchrist earlier this season wouldn’t happen if these guys were held accountable.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 13, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Recently when JT asked Ryan Harrow

If he wished his voice were huskier, that really made me shake my head!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 14, 2012 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you really think Tucker stepped out of line ...

… in this instance?

I don’t. Questioning Calipari’s hyperbole is certainly well within the rights, and some would say the responsibility, of the media. Calipari doesn’t mind, trust me.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 14, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

What gets under Cal's skin...

is not really relevant. Mr. Tucker’s comment on Twitter wasn’t meant for Cal’s consumption anyway. It was meant to mock Cal’s ongoing assertion that playing Kentucky is a big deal.

A quick story that hopefully will bring my overall point into sharper focus and provide some background on my overriding principles concerning journalism: One of my first jobs was as news director of a smalltown radio station. I had been on the job about two months when local pols began coming in to make their election-time ad buys. At that time the station actually had 7 or 8 on-air people and the news staff was three strong, including myself. When copy came out for these ads, they all had the name of my veteran news guy on them – all of these local politicians wanted the trusted voice of the local news to cut their campaign ads. I went to the station’s gm and told him flat out that my news guy was not going to be recording political spots. He nearly fired me on the spot. My point then was that having said trusted voice read copy espousing the merits of a particular candidate would undercut the credibility of the news operation he had entrusted to me. After he thought about it for a while, he decided not to fire me and my news guys never recorded another political spot for the remainder of my tenure.

Whether you are a beat reporter or the trusted voice of news for an entire community, shows of subjectivity are not allowed. They do immediate and lasting damage to your credibility.

Mr. Tucker’s tweet had a mocking tone that was obvious to me and many, many others. In my opinion, he attempted to bolster his position in the Old Boy’s Club of Kentucky Sportswriters and was called out on it. He responded to being called out by upping the ante, which was an ever more ill-advised move.

Mr. Tucker needs to decide whether he wants to wear the Big Boy Pants of a reporter for a legitimate news operation or the Beanie-With-A-Propeller-On-Top of a fansite blogger. Trying to wear the two together results in a fashion nightmare.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on Jan 14, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Big Boy Pants and Beanie

Now that imagery is hilarious! :)

by jdogblue on Jan 14, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Jan 14, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you really think ...

… that Tucker’s mocking of Calipari is bias against him? If so, I think you are being obtuse.

Calipari’s obsessive attempts to sell the idea that Kentucky brings out the best in foes is both unnecessary and an obvious ploy. Let’s be honest here, there is no bias or subjectivity about that. Tucker isn’t required by journalistic standards to ignore reality in order not appear somehow biased against his subject.

The truth of the matter is, many of Calipari’s statements are mock-worthy, and we as fans choose to let that pass because we love the UK team, we love how Calipari represents the program, and we love how hard he works to promote Kentucky basketball.

But the real truth is, if he were the coach of an opposing team making these same statements, like North Carolina or Duke, we’d be making mocking posts laughing at his obvious hyperbole. So with the one hand you would grant Calipari the unfettered right to make transparently hyperbolic statements, and with the other take away Tucker’s right to comment on them as any other unbiased journalist would, and has.

You know, what you need to do is re-examine the standards you purport to hold. While I completely laud your principled actions in the example you gave and praise you for them, what you are demanding is that Tucker cop to the same kind of unethical activity that you so roundly, and rightly in my view, rejected. Why should he remain silent on Calipari’s transparent absurdities when the rest of us are willing to overlook them because of our own partisanship?

Further, why do your principles allow you to give Jones a pass for picking a fight with a guy who is perfectly correct in pointing out Cal’s hyperbole, something even Jones would most likely admit? Perhaps you are objecting only to Tucker’s style, but that’s really more a matter of taste than a bedrock principle of journalism.

Physician, heal thyself.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jan 15, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Fantastic discussion in the comment threads

Recs all around, to both sides of the argument.

by NYCCats on Jan 14, 2012 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

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