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NCAA Sports: Money To Student Athletes Confounds Coaches

There's the famous story told about Winston Churchill, who was at a dinner party and apparently well into his cups.  The story goes that he asked an attractive woman at the party if she would sleep with him for a million pounds.  The woman responded, coyly, "Maybe."  Then Churchill asked her if she would sleep with him for one pound.  "Of course not, what kind of woman do you think I am?" she responded, outraged. Churchill replied, "Madam, we’ve already established what kind of woman you are. Now we’re just negotiating the price."

This passage clearly illustrates the point of view many people have about this summer's debate on increasing the value of a scholarship.  They think that the discussion has already established that paying athletes is going to happen, and now we are just haggling about how much.

Andy Katz has a good story yesterday that highlights the problems with the recent debate over paying athletes additional scholarship money, or any kind of money for that matter.  Several coaches were interviewed about the matter, including UK coach John Calipari.  The results will be surprising to many, but they were completely in line with what I expected.

Star-divide

First of all, coaches were universally opposed to paying players a salary, or apparently anything more than a fairly nominal amount of additional money.  The suggestions for how this might be done were pretty predictable, just an additional "stipend" or what basically amounts to an increased scholarship value, and amounts discussed ranged from  $500 per semester to $200 per moth.

Billy Donovan suggested colleges pay for official visits that included the parent's cost of travel and lodging, which would seem to amount to a significantly greater value than anyone else has proposed, if taken to cover all athletes.  He also mentioned flying parents to NCAA Tournament games.  Significantly, he was the only one who did.

Of course, there is the obligatory discussion about the possibility of breaking off the Big Six conferences and forming their own league, which certainly could be done and achieve the payments that people are talking about.  The problem there is that the rest of the now Division I schools would be reverted to second-class citizen status, much like the NAIA is now.  That's unappealing to most Division I coaches (and undoubtedly most university presidents) for many reasons.

Unsurprisingly, although most coaches wished for a small amount of additional money, every single one of them understands the reality that Title IX, along with the perception of unfairness that would go along with shutting out the non-revenue sports, makes this proposition a very difficult one without breaking off the Big Six, and none of them think that will happen.  Katz concludes his article thus:

Baron was joking on the last point -- sort of. But his overall thesis is a consistent theme among coaches polled. A nominal stipend to help with spending money makes sense per semester. But every sport must be included. And no one seems to think that could be possible with 300-plus Division I schools, hundreds of sports and thousands of athletes all deserving some sort of aid.

"I just don't know how you do it," Donovan said.

And that's the problem. No one does.

For what it's worth, these are the parameters of the discussion.  Nobody is talking about paying student-athletes their market value -- that is not being discussed at any level except for bloggers who seem to think the NCAA takes all that money they earn and socks it away in an island of Jersey bank account. Nobody is suggesting, for instance, that the NCAA siphon off the necessary money for the stipend for all schools and distribute whatever is left like they do now -- that probably would drive the Big Six to break away.

So those that think that we've already established the student-athlete as the new apprentice professional complete with paycheck and that we are just haggling over the price clearly is not paying attention.  For that to be so, the higher price has to at least be on the table.  It doesn't seem to be.

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hehe

I was wondering who William Churchill was.

by Acdixon on Jul 19, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

shoot, everybody knows who Wiliiam Churchill is...

he started Billie Beer

:)

No matter where you're at, there you are

by cincyblue on Jul 19, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Oops. Don’t know where that came from.

Anybody want to apply for a proofreading job? Fair warning, the pay sucks. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jul 19, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, that's "Sir William Churchill" you yanks.....lol

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is a simple formula to follow. Pay for everything they need. Every book, article of clothing

all travel expenses to and from school, every meal, every t-shirt, all of it. Not one thing they need should be left off. And document every dime of it. If the coach wants to take them to a meal out, then they go, school pays, if the coach wants to take them to a movie, fine. School pays. But it all has to be done as a team and chaperoned by a team official. Provide them with a school car if you want to, and let the school buy the gas, but document it……get it all out in the open. Let boosters contribute every dime they wish, or clothing articles, or anything they want, but they have to do it through the school and DOCUMENT it……..

If a booster wants to buy the whole team new suits, then so be it. Buy the suits, present them to the school and make the school document it…….If someone wants to have a BBQ at their house for recruits, fine……but DOCUMENT it……

The problems exist because people try to hide the stuff…….put it out in the open.

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

So ...

… we are going to let boosters pay for stuff now? Directly to athletes?

I’m sorry, Greg, but there is no way to do that. If boosters think they can pay for stuff, they’ll rationalize a way to pay under the table as well as above board. It’s too easy to do. Not only that, but “documentation” of such things is rife for abuse.

This is exactly what the NCAA was put in place to stop, and you want to allow it to happen? Madness, in my view. The NCAA will never allow a school’s boosters to pay for kids stuff, and besides, it still would create a Title IX problem. Boosters would be happy to pay for basketball and maybe football, but women’s soccer? Doubt it.

Boosters can contribute all they want to the athletics program now, but it gets used by all. What you are asking for is to allow them to pick and choose which athletes to give money to. So most boosters want to give money to the stars, but not the rest of the team. Sounds really good for team unity. All that documentation won’t make the linemen any happier while the star quarterback gets drowned in dough.

Of all the ideas I have heard, this is by far the worst, I’m afraid.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jul 19, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Glenn, you know as well as I do that the NCAA was founded to protect the student athletes from

the unscrupulous types out there who sought to forse players to play hurt, playing in unsafe conditions etc. Former President Theodroe Roosevelt brought it to fruition because of injuries to his own son.

As far as the boosters giving things to players individually, that was not my intent. Please forgive the confusion. I want it classified by sport. Men and women can be treated exactly and fairly, but I want the charade that is the NCAA in it’s current state to be brought to an end.I do not think it should be illegal nor improper for a restauranteur to buy a student-athlete a meal, just so long as he buys for the whole team.

I think the veil must be lifted and the whole thing brought out into the light of day. You want parity? Institute a “Luxury Tax” or a “Cap” if you want to.

Modify Title IX if you have to.

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

guess I need a proof reader as well

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that's not exactly right.

That was the impetus behind the NCAA discussion started, but the foundation of the NCAA was fairness and safety in competition when it was actually formed. I used to think the same thing, but it isn’t quite historically accurate. The NCAA has always been a rules-making body almost from day 1.

Moving on to your argument — The NCAA is not going away. Let’s just get that straight right now. The premise of your argument cannot be that, because the NCAA will continue, either with or without the Big Six conferences. If we are going to do away with the NCAA, the best way to do it is for the Big Six to break away.

So if getting rid of the NCAA is your objective, there is no debate to be had. That can be accomplished at any time, and the method has been described in detail and doesn’t require the participation of boosters at any level different than what they have now.

So if all you want to do is vent and curse the NCAA, this conversation should stop right here, because we have been to that rodeo together and I don’t feel like going back. If you want to propose a solution within the existing framework of the NCAA, then we may have something to discuss.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jul 19, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

For my $0.02

I would love to see the whole amateurism part of the NCAA requirement for athletes get dropped. I would keep the NCAA for academic requirements for student athletes. I also would really go vigorously after enforcing the rules associated with academics.

I am sorry, but in my view the whole idea of trying to regulate what a booster wants to pay to any player, or withhold from any other player, just has no place in a free market economy, which is what I think most everything in the USA should be run as. I know: it will be the doom of UK basketball’s dynasty. Of course, that would kill me too at some level: I love UK basketball so much I often roll around on the floor and cry after a loss. My wife thinks I am crazy. Anyway, I would expect my proposal to be the doom of UK basketball’s dynasty because the people of KY just could not pay pay as much as those around UCLA (oh, how I hate UCLA and the “cheating” of the John Wooden era there). But for a moment if I step away from my own personal desires, I conclude that unless we permit whatever willing booster to directly write whatever check to whatever player they wish for whatever amount for whatever reason they choose, then at some level we are enslaving the student athlete for our own personal amusement…

If any student athlete can demand such a salary (yes, a student athlete legally and publicly demanding a salary from a university booster), and if there are people willing to pay it, then who are we to stand in the way? Oh, but we want to stand in the way because otherwise the playing field will not be level enough? How selfish are we that we so badly want to be amused?

Finally, I know people will say that there are professional teams for this. There are, but what about the student athletes who would prefer to stay in school if it were not for the financial reasons which push them out of school? Again, this is not fair to the student athletes. In my opinion, nothing is so hypocritical as the NCAA who is supposed to value the student athlete, but who, in reality, push students out of school because of their self-serving amateurism requirements.

Yeah, I read aseaofblue almost daily, but hardly ever write anything. I just had to get this off my chest.

Now I will go back to silent mode until next year’s SEC tournament…

P.S. Oh, what if this completely destroys college athletics because of the lack of competition? People would lose interest (only a few select teams might ever be able to win – those universities with the richest booster clubs). Well, in that case overall market values of the student athlete would probably decrease over time as many people just lost interest in college athletics. Maybe it would eventually be self-regulating in a free market sense. Maybe it would not be. Maybe it all would fall apart and athletes would then actually have to work for a living like the rest of us. That might not be such a bad world after all…

by rdslon01 on Jul 19, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for your comment.

I could not disagree more, but that’s just fine.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jul 19, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

I don’t necessarily agree with rdslon01’s comment, but it was articulate and defensible. Once again, ASOB is a cut above.

by Acdixon on Jul 20, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

"we are enslaving the student athlete for our own personal amusement"?

I assume that you have a mouse in your pocket. I detest that phrase 100% in every sense of the word. No athlete that I can recall has been dragged into UK in handcuffs. They don’t HAVE to go to college. They can sit a yr., as things stand now, or go offshore, DLeague, whatever. But, if they agree to go to a college, then they also agree to abide.

See you during the SECT. GO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!

by bigbill992001 on Jul 19, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't mean for this to sound solely like a venting against the NCAA. If they can enter the 21st Century

I am all for keeping them. But it is going to require three major changes for the NCAA to remain a viable institution.

1) The compliance department must get up to speed, be properly funded and staffed. They must be autonomous, and penalties need to be set in stone for violators. It needs to be run not by coaches, nor former coaches, nor school officials. And while they are at it, the rule book could stand some simplifying as well.

2) Some kind of concessions need to be made concerning how the NCAA is run. Placing different School Presidents in charge is not working. The length of their tenure is irrelevant. The NCAA needs to be run by people who do not have one particular school’s interests to look out for. Even if they are not partial, any decisions that are made can be questioned.

3) Something needs to be done with these “power” conferences. They operate in their own world. And as much as I enjoy the fact that the SEC is ruling the world of college football, and working it’s way back to the top of college basketball, the big conferences are starting to seperate the haves from the have nots. Maybe another division is what is needed, maybe something else, but there is no longer a level playing field.

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Controlling the boosters is a fallacy, or fantasy, take your pick.

The only way to control these things is to make them public. Nothing going on in the dark is visible. Unless you are using night vision glasses, and those are really expensive and hard to come by.

The best way to contol a booster organization is to do what they do in High School here in Kentucky. If the program’s booster club does something, they must do it for every member of the team. But if they do something that uses school resources, or personnel for raising funds, the money goes into the general athletics account and is spread evenly to everyone. But even High Schools recognize the fact that only a couple of sports programs in the schools are revenue generating. And they treat those differently at the high school level.

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've posted this before

Dan Dakich, who was a basketball coach at Bowling Green Univ. and interim coach at IU after Sampson, says the scholarship money is enough. One problem is that players elect to live off-campus in high-cost apartments and frivolously spend money on music, tattoos and other popular culture items. He says that if an athlete budgets his scholarship money, there is enough to provide the spending money and living expenses he needs.

One change may be to require all athletes to live in university housing. I am also aware that the athletic departments conduct book exchanges among athletes, such that the athletes merely are loaned their books for the semester.

I’d like to see a breakdown of scholarship money per athlete at schools and how it is intended to be spent. That might enlighten this conversation that current amounts do not provide enough money.

by jdogblue on Jul 19, 2011 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

From what I can tell from two universities (one being UK)

Expenses not covered by the NCAA definition of scholarship include transportation and personal expenses. From a review of information provided by two schools (UK being one), this ranges from $2200 (trnsp. = $700, pers.=$1500) to $2700 (trnsp.=$1100, pers.=$1600).

If an athlete comes from a background where his family is unable to contribute any money, aren’t they eligible for Pell Grants and other federal financial aid? Seems like I remember Wall repaying to charity the amounts he received in AAU from his financial aid money.

If they are able to get regular student financial aid money to cover the $2200+ shortfall, then where is the argument?

by jdogblue on Jul 19, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can appreciate Dakich's comments, but many of his coaching brethren do not agree

I am now and shall forever be the Cat in The Hat, The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!!!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Jul 19, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of them do.

It’s just haggling over the difference of a couple thousand dollars. Virtually none of his coaching brethren want to see players receive more than a nominal stipend.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jul 19, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

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