Coach Calipari: "Players-First" Means Telling The Truth, Even When It Hurts
John Calipari wrote an article yesterday on CoachCal.com describing what a "players-first" program means to him. It is a short piece, but it goes a long way to explain his philosophy about college basketball in the era of "one and done," and even though there is nothing really surprising in the article, there is a lot more meat there than some may realize.
The first thing Coach Cal touches on is the fact that he doesn't "make outlandish promises" about playing time, minutes, positions, etc. In this case, what he doesn't say is also instructive -- Calipari doesn't say that he doesn't make promises about these things, he says that he doesn't make promises that he cannot keep, or that don't square with the reality of what the basketball team needs to win.
This might seem to be a small thing, but the concept of keeping promises is probably the single most important factor in why Coach Cal's reputation with players is what it is. No matter what the media think about Calipari and how he does business, no matter the arguments about "slickness" or "sliminess" that we see from his detractors, the truth of the matter is that today's college basketball recruits know him where most of the commentariat do not -- they know him, and they respect him.
There is a reason you have virtually never seen or heard a former or current player speak ill of Coach Cal. Even players in the NBA who never played for him almost universally speak highly of Calipari, and it''s not his charming personality or natty attire. He tells it straight and keeps his word, because he doesn't give it lightly.
The second principle Calipari elucidates thus:
The second part is that once the season begins, we are teaching players to be the teammate they want to play with. Our whole focus is on team play. I want individuals to play well but I’m getting them to understand nothing of significance will be accomplished by themselves.
There is a lot more, as most of us know, to being a good teammate than just practicing and playing hard. We have seen it the last two years at Kentucky when the young bucks come in. They are used to being the #1 option on their respective high school teams and have never had to subsume their games into a true team concept that demands sacrifice.
The first and most important thing we all learn about being a good teammate is sacrifice -- we must sacrifice our desires, our wants and our glory for that of the team, and force our natural desire to excel into the proper place in a team concept. Every successful marriage learns how to do that eventually -- the two partners must give up things that they otherwise love to do, at least some of the time, in order to make the family work.
This past year, we saw how hard it was for all the players to become good teammates. Early on, this most recent team looked like anything but. They hogged the ball, they took bad shots, they did all sorts of things detrimental to team success. During the year, the 2010-11 Wildcats often struggled to generate the kind of passion, both out of themselves and out of Kentucky fans, that the 2009-10 team did. It took nearly the whole season before the totality of the Big Blue Nation were fully emotionally invested in last year's Wildcats, and that's because it took just as long for the players to truly become a team. Fans are very sensitive to that, and that's why there was such angst among the Big Blue faithful only 3 weeks before that remarkable run to the Final Four.
The final principle Coach Cal discusses is the thing that some in the commentariat have begun to deride -- when the season is over, Calipari considers it his job to "help them make the best decisions, with the best information I can give them, for them and their families." Often, this means strongly advising them to pack their bags and become a professional basketball player, to the apparent detriment of Kentucky basketball and Calipari's personal goals.
How anyone can criticize this philosophy is simply beyond any rational defense. It would be unethically selfish of John Calipari to try to convince players to return to school and risk injury or a bad season rather than to take the millions of dollars represented by a first-round NBA contract. As many have so often stated, there is no degree program in college that pays what an NBA team does to a first-round draft choice. There are no letters after your name that will earn you as much money in ten to fifteen years as an NBA salary will.
The NBA is a good way to make a living, and if you asked every Division I player in America with any post-college basketball hopes whether they would stay in school or enter the NBA Draft if they were guaranteed to be drafted in the first round, something north of 90% would place their names in the draft. The commentariat would tell you that it is wrong for Calipari to recruit players who have no intention to stay in college, but the unspoken truth is that the vast majority of players come to college with no intention to stay there if they wind up good enough to be drafted in the first round of the NBA draft. Unfortunately for them, more than 90% won't be good enough.
That makes the meme that the press continually tries to foist on America one of the most dishonest I have seen anywhere, in any segment of reporting. It is not really arguable that these complainers don't know reality, it's just that the people who consume their news want to hear the viewpoint expounded that "student-athletes" are players who come to school first, and play basketball second.
The truth that many in the chattering classes do not want to speak is that this definition of "student-athlete" is obsolete, and is not to be found in today's world in any significant concentration. Every boy who grows up playing basketball dreams of playing in the NBA, even though only a tiny fraction wind up having what it takes to get there. When we come to the realization that dream is no longer viable, we comfort ourselves and our ego by claiming it wasn't really what we wanted anyway. That's human nature.
What I like about Coach Cal is that he has the courage to be honest about this, and not give lip service to the lifeless corpse of "how it should be" that the press trots out this time of year to mollify idealists, elitists, and college administrators. Calipari doesn't tell players not to stay in school, he points out to them life's realities, what the consequences of each decision is, and tries to get them as much information about what is likely to happen as possible. The decisions these players make are the same ones you and I would make if we were in their shoes the vast majority of the time, and the same ones the scolds in media and academia would have made had they been Brandon Knight, Terrence Jones, and DeAndre Liggins.
They just won't admit it.

UPDATE: Rob Dauster of Ballin' Is A Habbit has related thoughts. ESPN's Diamond Leung also.
Calipari then rejected the dichotomy laid out in the Bozich piece and said that it was a "lie" to suggest that "it's impossible to win championships with that type of young, elite talent." He goes further to suggest that it is a "ludicrous statement" to argue that a program can't win championships with players who seek to leave for their NBA dreams early.
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I Have No Problem With Players Leaving After 1 Year At UK
LeRoy Edwards did it after 1 year of varsity play in 1935.
Ditto Tom Payne in 1971.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 22, 2011 8:09 AM EDT reply actions
Nicely done...
Another way of saying this is that from Oct-mid April, Cal is a Coach… Mid-April through mid-May, he’s a Counselor, Mentor and Financial Advisor. And you know what?? I’m OK with that…
If your wings don't sweep....
by EagleTDL on Apr 22, 2011 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you on the money
The vast majority of students would opt for the career world in any field for such financial opportunity. However, the one thing that cannot be recovered is youth and the related experience. Youth is wasted on the young nonetheless.
Well done article.
The choices given these young men are challenging. Financial security is one of the main driving forces in today’s economy. This is especially true of people who come from the ever shrinking middle class or low income households. Millions of dollars in guarranteed money is enticing to say the least. The issue is at what cost.
Unlike having a coach who cares for you, like Coach Cal, the NBA coach depends on the success of his players for his personal salary incentives. It is a meat grinding business. As a player, you have to bulk up to protect yourself from injury. Due to front office trades, there is no security or loyalty to the team you play with. Just ask Chuck Hayes. With the millions of dollars come “real world” experiences that young men may not expect. Just look at how many NBA players are now financially broke.
If “marketability” is the best way to advise a potential pro athlete, then IMO just getting a first round pick may not be the singular criteria to use. Leaving for a second round position is not necessarily the best move either. I know, that hindsight is 100%, but there is now plenty of data available to show how playing one more year would have not only helped develop the skill level, but also increase the stock of an individual. Had Morris, Meeks and possibly Cousins stayed one more year, I think UK would have had a chance to “market” these players in at least a final four arena. Additionally, two of them would have had degrees and all of them IMO would have been better prepared for the meat grinder that awaited them.
My final point is that not many people cross index the percentage graduation rate of non-student athletes with student athletes. I believe the data would show that the athletes do very well when compared to the entire student body. Maybe a dissertation subject could investigate the significant factors involved in making the decision of not continuing college. Either way, I believe Kentucky is fortunate to have a Coach who puts his players first and tries to help them in this difficult process. He knows what they are getting into.
by Blueobsessed on Apr 22, 2011 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Then and Now
The landscape of college sports, and basketball in particular has changed so much in the past few years. I get what Bobby Knight was saying about staying in school for 4 years, but that isn’t the case for a greater number of student-athletes today. If Knight was still coaching today, I can’t believe he would pass on any potential early exit players. Of the few he ever had go Pro, you can bet that if the current climate existed then, Thomas would have bolted after one season. Do we as fans like the one-and-done? Not many, but until the rules are changed, this is what we have. As Cal said the other day, “I ache to coach Knight, Jones, and Liggins for another year”. But the player first approach shouldn’t be criticized.
With out the player first approach
we wouldn’t get all of these guys.
For those who lament we will never win it all with one and dones, just look at your chances of winning it all regardless. As a program we only get to the final four about twice a decade on the average and we win it all about half the time we get there. In the late 90’s we were the team to beat and more recently it has been Florida, Duke and UNC. Now we are back and capable of getting to the final four. Number 8 will come.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Michael Jordan Has His UNC Degree
If he can find time to go back, so can ANYONE who wants a degree.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 22, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Not Sure
He earned his degree in 1990’s.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 22, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article.
Great article Glen.
Coach Cal will never get passed his “slick” reputation – the world is an unforgiving place (whether guilty or not), particularly in the biased sports press (perhaps even more biased than the 6 o’clock and 24-hour guys and gals).
Coach’s one thing to do is be good, clean, and straight-shooting for here on out and he will have a “cloud of witnesses” to his approach – already has quite a few. While I am biased, I have loved the last two years and I am looking forward to as many as we get with him at the helm.
JandPsDad
Been Blue All My Life
Bleedin' BLUE all over NW Indiana
It look's like
Brandon Knight is gone for sure, according to his mother. She doesn’t foresee anything happening to change his mind to go and she and his father are looking into agents for him.
It would have been great to have him back next year but if he realizes his dream then good for him. Few players have a chance to get drafted at all, let alone go in the lottery. Thanks for your time at UK, Brandon.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Just like Coach Cal
Glenn lays it on the line.
Rec’d also
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
It's not Cal's decision.
“It would be unethically selfish of John Calipari to try to convince players to return to school and risk injury or a bad season rather than to take the millions of dollars represented by a first-round NBA contract.” I do have an issue with the last half of Glenn’s sentence, starting with “and risk injury,” but the first half is more important.
I agree that Cal should not be trying to convince players to return to school. But I’ll go further: Cal should not be trying to convince players not to return to school.
It’s not for him to convince his players either way. It’s not his choice, not his decision, not his life. Yes, give them all the information they need to make a well-informed decision (that means more than the financial calculus). But don’t tell them what to do. Don’t tell them what you would do. Allow the players and their families to decide for themselves, based on their values.
If Cal wants his kids to make “the best decisions,” he must allow them to make independent decisions, not decisions driven by his considerable influence. Yes, that means allowing them to make decisions he might not like. But if he has educated his players and their families well, he should have no reason to regret the choices they make.
Are you referring to
“cleaning the cupboard just to restock it” as kywineman put it yesterday?
If the players stayed for more than one year, Cal wouldn't have to work as hard in teaching "green" recriuts.
I don't know, Cam.
I’m talking about Cal’s role. Should he convince his players? Should he keep his opinion in check?
I strongly believe the latter. I don’t object to players coming to UK for one year and being drafted in the first round. But it has to be what they want, not what Cal wants. It’s supposed to be players first, not Cal imposing his will.
Let's see.
It boils my blood to hear Cal tell the press, with some measure of pride, how he tore up Dejuan Wagner’s scholarship “to make sure he understood he wasn’t coming back.” To hear him say, with a smile, that he would wrestle Wall or Cousins to the ground if the player said he wanted to return. Even to hear him say that the only reason for that kid to come back is “to give me more wins, to make my record look better.” The only reason? What a perfect way to marginalize competing values and dress it up as a noble act of self-sacrifice.
That’s not players first. That’s Cal making the decisions. If he simply gave his kids the information they need to make a decision that’s right for them, he’d probably find that they usually come to the same conclusion. But at least the process would be more honest.
maybe you shouldn`t take things so literal,
Cal says these things tongue in cheek with a laugh afterward. Any coach that would try to stop these guys from leaving a lottery oick on the line, would be selfish.
BLUE!!! Is there any other color?
If this is your stance, why even send you child to UK to be coached by Cal?
Let’s say your kid was a top recruit, and UK was his top choice. You wouldn’t want Coach Cal’s advice when it comes to being drafted? It really is no different than any other endeavor in life. You get advice from a source that knows the game. Cal knows what he is doing. Why let you child play for him, if you don’t want his opinion on what that child should do come draft time? What if Knight looked at Cal and said, what do you think I should do coach? Should Cal say, well that is not up to me, do whatever you think is right. Than maybe Knight makes the wrong decision, and starts to think Coach Cal wouldn’t even give me his opinion. That approach will never work if Cal wants to keep getting big time recruits. It is to late for that approach. And Cal is not making the decisions, the players and family make the final decisions. Cal just makes it a point to let them know what the best decision is for them. A financial advisor, teacher, and many other professions do the exact same thing. They lay out the choices, tell you which one they think is the best for you, and leave the decision making up to you. But they always for the one that best suits you, and possibly benefits them as well. There is no doubt that Cal does benefit from the process, but so does the players. And since Cal has never won a NC, and the players keep becoming lottery picks, I would say that the players have been getting the better deal. I would say that is players first.
I'm with you, Scott.
Young people are mentored by the adults in their lives all the time. Some of that mentoring involves giving information and letting them make the decision without advice, and some of that mentoring involves giving advice as to what decision to make. In the end, Cal can’t make the decision for them, but I don’t see it as a violation of his role as a coach to give career advice.
My faculty advisor did the same for me. Now, truly, most of his advice was of the “you’d better get your ass into the books if you ever want to graduate from this place and go fly airplanes” variety, but it was sound advice, and I was the one who had to act on it. The decision was mine, the advice was his. I just wish his advice had involved the potential to make the millions that the NBA-bound players make!!!!!
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
old cat
You couldn’t have been more right. We have a mentoring program in the Carpenters union for new and young members and it’s definitely needed.
My mentor was chairman of KET for years. He was a brilliant man but really absent-minded. He taught Mathematics at Harvard and worked with the British in WW2 on Radar defense. I am thankful I had him. That’s also how I got to see the Cats so many times as I was growing up.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
I agree Wheatgerm
There’s a lot more to college than simply the preparation for a future career. Some students want it and others don’t, but it’s not for anyone else to decide for them, whether they be athletes or not.
3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.
What more is there to college than preparation for a future career?
Frat parties? Girls? Student loans? If your goal is not a future career, than why attend college? Just to get drunk and in debt? There is no other reason to go to college. If college didn’t help provide a better career path, why would you go? That is all these one and dones are doing. The NBA took away the quickest avenue to their future career. So college makes the most sense for them. And with Cal coaching at UK, UK makes more sense than any other college.
There is a lot of personal development that occurs during those years
College is a good environment for that to happen – a place where you are most likely to encounter people who think differently than you do during a time when you are learning new things. There is more to life than work and college is a time when you can learn what some of those things are.
3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.
I totally agree with jlev and wheatgerm
I’m fully behind the decision of any player to do what’s right for them and for lots, probably most elite players, what’s right is to leave while the getting’s good. But oh how I hate to hear the mocking and derision of those few players who do stay in college when they could have been first rounders. There are plenty of reasons to value the college experience beyond the future earning potential it can give you—meeting different kinds of people, exposure to new ideas, even learning for the sake of broadening one’s mind and becoming more interesting, knowledgable and useful contributor to society. Take knowledge of US History, for instance—very very few of us make a living using history class info as a part of our jobs, we could never know a lick about the Civil War and still be a perfectly adequate paycheck-drawing accountant or car salesman. But surely few would argue that such knowledge is worthless. Education has use and value beyond the monetary—it is up to the individual to weight that other stuff as they choose.
That’s why I agree with wheatgerm that I cringe to hear Calipari say things like “not allowing” Wall or COusins to come back—yes, even if he doesn’t really mean it literally, and even if it is completely obvious that Wall and Cousins are one-and-doners. It belittles, in some small way, the not-economic, non-personal- reward aspect of education.
by blue kentucky girl on Apr 23, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
For the Walls and Cousins of the world
basketball is their education. It is how they will make their living in the short term. They came here for one purpose, to put in their time and demonstrate their value. They achieved it and moved on.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
+1, wheat
IF, and I say IF, Cuz wanted to come back, why not let him?
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 22, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If Cuz really wanted to come back, don't you think Cal would of let him?
Do you really think Cal told Cuz I don’t want you back? Do you really think Cal said you can’t come back? I don’t think so. He told Cuz it would be wise for you to go pro, you will be a top 5 pick. And Cuz said, I am one step ahead of you. I never intended to say 4 years anyway. The players have had this mentality for several years now.
exactly.
I think some are giving Cal way too much credit here. He doesn’t have the power to make these kids do whatever he wants them to for goodness sake. He isn’t this grand puppet master orchestrating whether they can stay or go. Come on, people. The decision to go or not to go is up to the kids and their families. The families just look to Cal for some educated been-there-done-that guidance.
by BigSkyCat on Apr 22, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Seems some are adopting "Cal is the devil" attitudes
These kids have had NBA dreams for years. Cal didn’t give the idea to any of them. They and their families want guidance, just like we seek professional opinions regarding things we are not familiar with.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Right, BSC.
If Cuz had decided, on his own, to stay, does anyone think for a minute that his big butt wouldn’t have been in the paint in every game?? If someone does, they are delusional. Coach Cal is like Coach Rupp and almost any other successful coach—they want to win games, and they will take the most talented players they can find to help them do just that.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
Scott, let me respond to you and all the people that responded below
First of all, as I have said many times, I’m 100% in Cal’s corner as far as him being our coach. I take issue with anyone that suggests otherwise. Don’t put your words in MY mouth and don’t pretend that you can read MY mind. IF, and again I say IF, anyone wants to know how I truly feel about anything UK related, they have only to ask. As you can probably tell, I’m not shy and very straight forward. Maybe too much so for some people’s taste on here. Look around and ask “who would I rather have as coach?” My answer is ‘no one’. Not Roy, not K, not Self, not Matta and not one of the currently fashionable young guys.
I remember reading last yr. that Cuz did, indeed, want to come back and Cal told him something to the effect of “Get your buns outta here, it’s your time to go.” I can’t recall the exact article/articles at this point, but I’m sure if someone wanted to dig into the archives here at this site, they could come up with some info in that regard. If I’ve got this wrong, someone please enlighten me. Not with YOUR opinion, but with something resembling facts.
Also, the story of Cal theatrically tearing up a player’s scholly is well known. That was when he really got the label “a player’s coach”. It has served him, and til this point UK, well.
Many of these players don’t need a lot of incentive to declare for the draft as that’s been their dream for a long time. So, in that regard, I think that what Cal advises is a BIG DEAL. It carries HUGE weight. And, I wish each and every one of them the best of everything. They came here to UK for whatever reason, and for that I’m grateful. Some of them I will follow from time to time in the NBA, but I’m basically a college bball guy. When they do well in the NBA or elsewhere, I’ll smile with pride that they chose to play one yr. at UK.
I’m not the only one that finds it ‘interesting’ that other top players have chosen to go back for another yr. I don’t know the reasons for this. There may be as many reasons as their are kids returning. I’m a little frustrated when I see guys like Sullinger and Barnes staying, as well as other kids have over the yrs. Does this make me a Cal hater? I don’t know what their coaches are telling them, but I assume that they can read, tweet and go on the internet. They see the mock drafts. These guys KNOW they are top 5-10 draft picks if they declare, so what’s the incentive to stay? They love their school more? They love their coach more? They love their teammates more? They want to get that ring? Can someone enlighten me? Please don’t say they wanna play in front of their mommies. These guys could be millionaires. Mom could fly from her big, new house to the games in a private plane.
To wrap up, let me say that a lot of people on here have very thin skins. That’s YOUR problem, not mine. I pride myself on being a lifelong UK bball fan. I’m a fan, not an historian, not a statistician. A fan. I drink my share of koolade, but I don’t wear blinders. I also don’t walk in lockstep and repeat the party line. I pride myself, also, in having an open mind. I’m a UK fan and I accept my team, the good, the bad, the ugly, warts and all. I can talk candidly about the program as I do family. My brother is a jerk, but don’t let anyone else call him that.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, here is the exact quote.
He’s not quite sure how his personality will go over in an NBA locker room — “hopefully very well,” he said with a laugh — but didn’t think he really had a choice.
Neither did coach John Calipari. While Calipari didn’t answer questions on Thursday, Cousins said Calipari practically ordered him to enter the draft.
“He told me it’s my time to go,” Cousins said, then nodded his head vigorously later when a reporter asked if Calipari “pushed” him out.
No direct quote from Big Cuz saying Cal said he had to leave. Just said it was his time to go, sort of like saying he was ready. And than there was this.
“I didn’t want to leave this place,” Cousins said Thursday. “I could stay here forever … it was a hard decision.”
Yet one Cousins felt he had to make. Most NBA experts have him projected as a Top 5 pick, and he’s not sure another year at Kentucky would help as much as it would hurt.
“If I did come back, I could get hurt,” he said. “Anything can happen … my stock is high right now.”
So there you go. Cal told him it was his time, and Cousins felt he had to go because he could get hurt, his stock was high. Those are direct quotes. Not the one where it says Cal pushed Cousins out. A reporter said Cousins said that, but no direct quote of that.
I am candid too, and have thick skin. Thin hair, but thick skin. And my brother is lazy, but I try not to let anyone else call him that.
Key word in this quote
"I didn’t want to leave this place," Cousins said Thursday. "I could stay here forever … it was a hard decision."
is decision. It appears that Cal was upfront and adamant that Cousins was ready to go and should. But Cousins says that it was a hard decision.
Could Cal have kept Cousins one more year? Sounds like he could have talked him into staying. Would we have benefited? Most likely. Cal stayed true to his approach to the young men and they see that. That means we will get more Cousins in the future.
Pick your poison. Lesser players staying longer, great players staying one to two years. I believe we should sit back and enjoy the ride. I believe that most people are against the one and done because they feel it denies them a chance at another championship, not for any other reason.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
LOL......well, there you have it.
“Nodded his head vigorously later when a reporter asked if Calipari “pushed” him out". At least you came up with one quote. Thanks, Scott. So, if we look at this situation, Cuz was in a similar place as Sullinger this yr. While Barnes was considered by some to be a possible #1. Why is it that those guys came back? We all remember how we felt, kinda sick inside for me, when 2 of our guys went down in one game. Thank God, neither one was serious.
These are just 2 examples of many. For what it’s worth, if MY son were in a position to go lottery, I’d advise him to take also.
My question was……..is……….and always will be “why do they come back at other schools, given similar circumstances/risks?”
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
P.S., Scott
I hope your brother and mine never get together. They could kill each other fighting over who’s turn it is to go to the fridge and get the next beer. :)
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Bill,
why do they come back at other schools, given similar circumstances/risks?
Do you really think we can answer your question?
I don’t think anyone here can answer that, unless another teenager has a possible answer. But then again, the real answer probably is different for each college player based on each individual.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
well, certainly no one has an answer so far
But, it DOES seem to be confined to UK. At least it seems that way to me. I guess I’ll just have to chalk it up as another one of your unsolved mysteries :)
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It is NOT Just UK
Look at every 1 & Done over the past few years.
Definitely NOT UK alone.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 23, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Not confined to UK
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/04/16/1971017/how-going-pro-early-has-affected.html
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Thanks for the link, a2d2
I found the article interesting and validating my opinion. I’m not concerned with EVERY school having the occassional OAD, just our closest competition/rivals. Say, like UNC, KS, pUKe and the like. We had FOUR in one class and look to have 2 more this yr.
As I have pointed out in other comments, the last couple yrs. have seen us just one early out away from what realistically might have been 2 NCs. That’s just my opinion, but I have seen articles elsewhere that shared my view. Even this article points out that UNC/Uconn probably don’t win their NCs without top players returning. On the flip side, we haven’t returned even 1.
As I’ve said before, I guess I’m just selfish……………..and a little envious.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure about not returning top players.
Lamb, Miller, and Vargas are coming back. I know Cal didn’t recruit Miller, but he will recruit some players like Miller along the way. Cal does have a history of recruiting top jr college players and some good role players. And I don’t think we can say for sure how good Poole or Vargas could be. I also think that Wiltjer will be around for at least 2 to 3 years. Cal might also sign some more recruits for this upcoming season that will not be one and done. And as people have pointed out, most of the 2012 class has signed with other programs, so Cal will probably sign some guys out of the 2012 class that will not be one and done.
I will give you that as long as Cal is at UK, we will lose some of our best players every year to the draft. But I will take a guy like Lamb sticking around for 2 or more years, every year. The guy can play.
Also I would agree that with Cal, UK is the biggest target for one and dones. But other schools are starting to catch on. Duke just lost Irving and will probably only have Rivers for one year. So even though UK is at the top of the mountain, UK is not alone.
Miller
Parade HS A-A, KY Mr B-ball, Top 40 rated HS player.
Hardly a role player. Certainly Calipari would recruit guys like him.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 23, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But not a one and done type player.
And I do believe Cal would recruit guys like him. That was my point. Cal will get some guys that will stick around for more than one year. Miller fits the mold of those players. And among guys like Wall, Cousins, Knight, Jones, Bledsoe, and so on, Miller is sort of a role player. A very important role player. At least that is what he has shown. I love Miller, and hope he wins MVP of the NCAA tournament and a NCAA title. That is my hope for him as a senior.
+1
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Scott
I don’t think anyone would project Lamb as a lottery guy this yr. He came back to try to play his way into the lottery.
Miller would prolly not be drafted this yr. In the NBA, you better bring it EVERY nite. There’s lots of guys that want your job.
You’re not really serious about Vargas being one of our top players, are ya? We’re talking about top picks in the draft here, not pine warmers. I don’t think Vargas will be another Orton. Maybe I’m wrong. I was sure wrong about Orton.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No I don't think Vargas is a top player
But I didn’t think Jorts would ever play. But Cal developed the guy into a very good ball player. I think the same could happen with Vargas. All about his attitude. But Cal will get guys like Vargas and Miller from time to time that will stick around. But yeah, you are right, Vargas is not one of our top players.
Oh, I agree totally
No way all Cal’s gonna get is OAD players yr. after yr. ’12 is already looking kinda lean as OAD goes unless Cal gets hot. Of course, there may be some Bledsoes along the way.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That is why I don't worry that much
I mean, is Cal really that good of a recruiter that he will get 6 or 7 guys every year that could all go pro straight out of high school? If so, than UK should win a NC. Imagine Cal being able to land the likes of Kobe, Garnett, and Lebron all at the same time. I would think that would equal a NC.
yeah, it should
it shoulda last yr. too, but it doesn’t hurt to get a little luck along the way
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 24, 2011 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure you can answer that question.
First, the reporter said Cuz nodded his head. Not saying he didn’t, but hard to trust reporters in this day and age. But as far as other athletes, you never can tell. All 3 of the potential lottery picks from Texas said they were coming back and have now entered their name in the draft, and a couple of them will sign with an agent. Why do some kids enter their name in the draft when they have no chance of getting drafted in the 2nd round? And I don’t see Sullinger, Barnes, and Perry Jones III staying more than 2 years. So they will leave early as well. The truth is we will never get all the enjoyment we could out of these kids unless they stay 4 years. But this isn’t going to happen.
Cal also said he would love to coach Cuz for a second year. Cuz said he loved being at UK. So he could have stayed. He chose to leave. Truth is, Cuz would have been a lottery pick in his 2nd year as well as his 3rd or 4th. He could of stayed, but he chose to leave. Don’t think Cal would have cut him if he came back. So Cal would have taken him back. I really don’t think that anybody could honestly think that Cal would not of welcomed him back, so I don’t see how anybody would think that Cal pushed him out the door.
"nodding his head vigorously"
While it may not be a direct quote, I think it has validity.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Cousins said it was
a hard decision. That implies he had a choice. And he chose to leave.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I think that is the reality that everybody needs to comes to terms with.
Cuz and all of the rest had a choice. And they didn’t chose UK for more than one year. Yes, I would love for all of these guys to stay four years, but that just isn’t reality. If a 2 year rule is put into place, they will be gone after 2 years. I guess the question I have for the people who really have a problem with Cal’s system, is would you be ok with these guys leaving after one year if they won a NC? Would you be ok with Cal adding his 2 cents if UK won a NC with one and dones? Okay, that is 2 questions, but I think you get the point. Most people wouldn’t be so upset about it if UK won the NC. So I think we all have our own selfish desires when it comes to UK basketball.
Seems to me...
…Given the current comments, if Cal can win it all with one and dones, some would then expect back-to-backs.
As for me, I’m just gonna enjoy the ride. Enjoy the guys and the games, win or lose.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
You are not kidding.
So far Cal has put teams on the floor that have been good enough to win a NC. So back to back titles isn’t out of the question, but I am not going to hold my breath. Just enjoy the ride with you.
Back-2-Back Is REALLY Hard
Coach K did it. Coach Rupp did it.
Coach Wooden did it (more than once).
Not many others.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 23, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Really hard.
I don’t expect it to happen, but I do expect Cal to put teams on the floor with the ability to do so. I think he has done that to this point.
KSR showing that NBADraft.net has
Kanter #3, Knight #5 and Jones #12 for 2011. But the surprising thing is Liggins doesn’t show up until #49 on the 2012 board. Does that mean he should be back?
"Should" is a very relative concept.
Spending another year in residence is no guarantee of increasing your draft stock – especially if your playing time drops due to other players coming in.
And if you’re 23, and have a child to support. . .
All the more reason
for Liggins to make the most informed choice he can. If he is seen as marginal as a pro, he would be well advised to get his degree while he can. The baby isn’t going to starve in one year.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I don't think his playing time would be that much of a factor.
Not only does Liggins play defense, he loves to play defense. And Cal loves defense. Plus I think Liggins could develop more offensive skills. I really think Liggins could be a key piece to UK winning a NC next year.
I think you're right, Scott
but if the money and timing are right, he has to go. This is about his welfare, not ours. To me, this year was as good as winning #8. These kids were beat down in the press, mutilated on the Ky blogs, told they weren’t good enough to be Ky players and yet came together as a team and exceeded most everyone’s expectations. The OSU and UNC games were just extra icing on the cake.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
If money and timing are right, he should go.
I just think UK needs him back as much as they need Knight or Jones. Liggins can do a little bit of everything, and does something most kids will not do. Plays defense with passion.
Scott, you're really on to something here.
Who of the three potentials would be hardest to replace? A tremendous athlete who is one-sided; a good shooting guard playing out of position, or the best defensive player in the SEC, and arguably in the nation? A lot of “stars” don’t play defense; Liggs does.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
I think Liggins also
Jones is a good defender around the basket, but Gilchrist can take his place.
Knight almost has to go because the money is there for him.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
I'm with you both.
Not that I think Liggins was the most valuable player on the team this year (although he might have been), but I think he is the hardest to replace. Look at the number of good shooters and good, strong athletes coming out of high school these days. Then look at the number of college seniors who love to play defense.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
Tough
It’s really tough to be honest. Domt be hard on those who long for players to want to play for Kentucky for several years. That’s not fair either. It can be looked at as a mockery of the college game. It can be looked at as a farm system for the NBA. Calipari just happens to get more of those one and done kids more then anyone. But he is not more guilty then anyone else. He is just more honest about it. Look at what Pete Carroll tried to do with Sanchez. I respect Cal for being real.
by tenken on Apr 22, 2011 2:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Cal better start reloading now
We are projected to lose 6 players next year. All presumed to be starters and the 6th man. That could be VERY bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We don't rebuild we Reload
Coach Cal says his philosophy is that good players when championships. I agree with that. I like the fact that we are going to be in contention every single year. I think that banner # 8 is just around the corner. Also, if the NBA lockout and CBA turn out to implement a 2 and done rule, we won’t have to have this discussion anymore
Since He's Never Won A Championship
I don’t know if he’s a good source on that.
The “We Don’t Rebuild, We Reload” concept never has had any merit, anywhere.
If HS players were allowed to go straight to NBA (as many did in 2003, 2004, and 2005 HS classes) the discussion point would also be moot.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 22, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I can say
that my philosophy is that overwhelming force wins wars when unleashed overwhelmingly. I have never been a general nor won a war but the concept will get a lot of salutes.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I Back Calipari 100%
But fact is, he’s never won NC yet.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 22, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Cal's never WHON a championship ;)
Sorry, SH, I HAD to do it :). He’s come close several times. But, losing that ONE key piece since he’s been here has been the difference(well, that and FT shooting). I don’t know if he tried to get Meeks to stay or not, but with JM we win an NC. No doubt in MY mind. Same with Cuz last yr.
Many will say that if Cuz had stayed that Josh would not have improved. That may or may not be true. And, I’m as proud of Josh as anyone. Except maybe his dad. But, in the game against Uconn, I gotta believe Cuz would be worth more than 6 pts. And, remember, we would have had Cuz AND Josh. Just sayin’.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 22, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Should be some doubt Bill.
You cannot promise above all doubt Jodie would have won it all. Off games happen to everybody. EV-RE-BOD-EE. Injuries happen too. I love Jodie, but come on Bill. Not even fair to think that way.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
I guess that's true
if you believe that Meeks ain’t worth a few pts. Fact is, we’ll never know, right?
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I would think that UK would have won it all with Meeks.
I guess that is putting alot of pressure on Meeks, and wishful thinking as well, but I do believe that Meeks was the guy that would of knocked down a shot or two against WVU. And probably hit some free throws.
Meeks' Decision
Jodie Meeks is starting for a NBA playoff team (although likely to be swept), averaging more than 10 ppg and earning more than 3/4 million dollars per year — and just 23! Right decision? Are you kidding me?
Lottery picks not leaving college is tantamount to winning PowerBall and refusing the money.
"I bring reason to your ears, and, in language as plain as ABC, hold up truth to your eyes." Thomas Paine, December 23, 1776
Meeks
EXCELLENT example of topnotch recruiting by UK staff in 2006.
There were higher rated recruits on UK’s list but the staff targeted Meeks and won over Fla (NC at the time).
Meeks was not that highly rated (Top 50 or so) when he signed in Nov 2005 but UK signed the right guy.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 23, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
WW
if you look back at my many comments on here, you’ll notice that I’m of the opinion that any lottery guy should go. That’s not the issue here. The issue is the lottery picks that STAY another yr. Look at a2d2’s link above. UNC has had ONE OAD since 2005, Uconn ONE. KS ONE.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction............Uconn=NONE
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, but...
Wild Weasel says “Lottery picks not leaving college is tantamount to winning PowerBall and refusing the money.” To me it’s more like putting that winning ticket in your pocket to cash it in at a time that’s more convenient to you. Sure, there’s the chance something freak might happen, like you lose it, but you’re still more than likely going to get a shit ton of money one day.
To set aside my labored metaphor, the very worst case scenario for an elite college athlete would be a catastrophic injury that can’t be rehabbed—losing the potential to earn huge huge money at a game they love. This would be a horrible, epic travesty, of course…but more than likely, it’s not going to happen. And even if it does, again the very rarest, most freak worst case scenario would land the elite college athlete, not living under an overpass and eating out of dumpsters, but in pretty same boat as the other 99% of college kids who don’t have a transcendant talent that happens to pay extraordinarily well. More probably, the risk is not that they have an injury so terrible that they will never be able to draw a paycheck playing pro ball, but that they will damage their stock and make “only” hundreds of thousands of dollars playing basketball as opposed to millions. Again, I get why the vast majority would grab the millions, but money isn’t everything to everyone, and that doesn’t make them simpleminded.
by blue kentucky girl on Apr 23, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
Players who get injured in college will still probably make a NBA team, but just make less money at first. Greg Oden and Daniel Orton are prime examples.
What I mean is
If Oden and Orton would of stuck around for another year, they would of been injured. Would of hurt their draft stock, but still probably made some money in the pros. Just not first round money.
Off topic a little
But, I saw where NBADraft.net released their mock draft and they had TJ going to Utah at #12. If you were picking #12, and not just drafting for a spicific need, would you take TJ, Kemba, Trey Thompkins, Tobias Harris, Jordan Hamilton, Ken Faried, Shelvin Mack, Nolan Smith, Bismack Biyombo, JaJuan Johnson, Kyle Singler or Travis Leslie?
Just curious.
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
specific, sorry
God Bless Our Troops............Especially Our Snipers!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 23, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Faried
I know what Faried can do, and will do every night. Rebound and block shots. I can’t say for sure if any of these other guys will even be good NBA players. Even TJ has alot of growing up to do. He might be my second choice, but I do have a bias for TJ. I am not sold on the rest.
Coin toss between Faried and TJ
The NBA loves these kinds of players.Just imagine how maturity will add to TJ’s athletic ability.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.

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