The Math Part Two?: UK Fans Are Spoiled
by memphis wildcat on Feb 6, 2011 9:35 AM EST
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I hate losing as much as anyone. The Florida loss would not hurt as much if it was not right after the Ole Miss game. However, it is only the first time since Cal has been here that we have lost 2 in a row. How quickly we forget how lucky we have been over the last season and a half. In addition, I can think of 5 games last year where the result could have quickly gone the other way. It did not, but you have to admit that last year, the last second shot went our way and this year (so far) it has not.
The list of the 5 games that could have gone against us in the last 10 seconds from last year are after the jump - Can you recall them before you cross the jump?
The games last year that could have gone against us:
#1 - John Wall's first game versus Miami of Ohio. He drives the length of the court to hit a shot and win it regulation
#2 - Versus Stanford in Cancun. John Wall hits a shot with 30 seconds left and then 2 free throws with under 5 seconds to send it to overtime
#3 - John Wall blocks a shot with under 10 seconds (I think) to seal the win at Vanderbilt
#4 - We need OT to dismiss Miss State @ Starkville
#5 - We need OT to dismiss Miss State @ SECT: We tie it in regulation after an intentionally missed free throw, getting the rebound, and hitting the shot.
So what's my point? You can certainly argue that last year's team was better than this year's team, but I do not believe it is that easy. Although I am a big believer that you create your own luck through hard work, you have to say that last year, the last second bounces went our way and this year they have not (sort of like the takeaway ratio in football). Also, only 2 of the above took place on away courts. So far this year, our team has only been asked to make heroic shots on away courts. Again, this team has put itself in that position, but it is hard to say what last year's team would have done if all the above at been at away venues.
Ultimately, my point is that I hate losing, but I have to admit after last year's heroics, I have become spoiled - expecting us to win every close game. I realize we have not won one this year - but last year we won them all. Perhaps it is a reversion to the mean......
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Spoiled? Maybe Some Are
But most are just disappointed with L in so many close games.
I still think (hope) the Cats can be 23-7 (1 more L).
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 6, 2011 10:33 AM EST reply actions
Count Me in That Group
There is often a fine line between disappointment over losses, misplaced expectations and improper perspective.
Deep down, I am just disappointed with the losses but have to say my perspective is somewhat jaded by the fact that we seemed to always come out on top last year in such situations.
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Feb 6, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
After Yesterday
It’s clear that the 1991-2005 run of 15 years of success (2 NCAA titles, 4 Final 4, 9 Elite 8, 11 Sweet 16, 8 SEC and 10 SECT championships, 424-94 = 82% W-L record, 43-12 in NCAA games = 78%) has some UK fans expecting those results, year after year.
UK had a similar “run” from 1944 through 1959 under Adolph Rupp, even better IMO than that. The 30 years from 1960 through 1989 yielded only 1 NCAA title and 4 FF appearances.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 13, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
1944 Thru 1959 (0 Games Played In 1953) 4 NCAA Titles And 1 NIT = NCAA Then Plus 13 SEC Titles
1958-59 24 3 .889 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster, Dan Chandler 2nd by AP and 2nd by UPI Johnny Cox Accepted NCAA bid when Mississippi State declined
Participated in the Mideast Region of the NCAA Tournament
1957-58 23 6 .793 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster, Bill Wireman 9th by AP and 14th by UPI Ed Beck NCAA Champions; Helms Trophy Winners; SEC Champions; Participated in the Mideast Region of the NCAA Tournament
1956-57 23 5 .821 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 3rd by AP and 3rd by UPI Ed Beck and Gerry Calvert SEC Champions; Sugar Bowl Champions; Participated in the Mideast Region of the NCAA Tournament
1955-56 20 6 .769 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 9th by AP and 12th by UPI Phil Grawemeyer Accepted NCAA bid when Alabama declined
Participated in the Midwest Region of the NCAA Tournament
1954-55 23 3 .885 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 2nd by AP and 2nd by UPI Billy Evans SEC Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1953-54 25 0 1 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 1st by AP and 2nd by UPI Cliff Hagan and Frank Ramsey Helms Trophy Winners; SEC Champions [Co-Champion (Louisiana State)]; Declined NCAA bid due to stipulation that Graduate Students could not compete in the NCAA Tournament
1952-53 0 0 ? - - - No Games Played
1951-52 29 3 .906 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 1st by AP and 1st by UPI Bobby Watson SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1950-51 32 2 .941 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 1st by AP and 1st by UPI Walter Hirsch NCAA Champions; Helms Trophy Winners; SEC Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1949-50 25 5 .833 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 3rd by AP Dale Barnstable SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions; Sugar Bowl Champions;
1948-49 32 2 .941 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster 1st by AP - NCAA Champions; Helms Trophy Winners; SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1947-48 36 3 .923 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster - Ken Rollins NCAA Champions; Helms Trophy Winners; SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions; Olympic Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1946-47 34 3 .919 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster - Ken Rollins NIT Runners-Up; SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions;
1945-46 28 2 .933 Adolph Rupp Elmer Gilb - Jack Parkinson NIT Champions; SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions;
1944-45 22 4 .846 Adolph Rupp Lyman Ginger - - SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions; Participated in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament
1943-44 19 2 .905 Adolph Rupp Harry Lancaster - - SEC Champions; SEC Tournament Champions;
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 13, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
As for the close games last year…
Just go to the season’s results at ESPN and click on the scores to read the re-caps and watch the highlights of all the close games, including the ones you mentioned.
Take the time.
Sure, you will see some examples of blind, pure luck. But I think you will also see some patterns develop that are nothing of the sort. I do not believe that “making your own luck” begins and ends with “hard work” and crossing your fingers. Discount personnel and mind-set, and I think you will end up seeing far more coincidences than are warranted.
I do think these close games are doing this year’s team some real good- and I think we will all have much more to smile about before the season is officially in the books. I haven’t given up on this year’s team by a long shot.
-- Tim
Lexington
One Pattern...
is in my summary of the games – John Wall.
I have not given up on this team either. I believe we have the pieces that can combine with a favorable draw and allow us to make a deeper run in the NCAAT than might appear on the surface.
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Feb 6, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that is true about Wall. Not only was he a “one man fast break”, but he was also a “one man pattern” of making plays. And I do see a direct connection there.
Wall and Bledsoe lead a high risk / high reward attack at very high speed. They really only knew one speed, and are having to adjust their games even today to be more versatile. But I like that mind-set on several fronts, one of them being that it is perfect for taking matters into our own hands and “making our own luck”. It is a tactic. Sure, the “high risk” side of it is more turnovers (which some people are quick to count and whine about)- but in any system you have to take the bad with the good. You either take the overall system, with its flaws, or you don’t. I personally think being the aggressor is worth the risk. Wall and Bledsoe were certainly that.
One really good example is the road game at Miss State that you listed (but curiously didn’t metion Wall again, who had 18 Pts, 10 Reb, 8 Ast, 3 Stl, 2 Blk). MState ties the game with 1:32 remaining in OT and you see Wall clapping his hands at Patterson to hurry up and get him the ball- which he then races down court and into the lane for an old-fashioned 3-point play. Up by 4 with 0:38 remaining, he comes over on help defense to get a big block on a MState attempt at the rim, and then with 0:14 gets a steal.
I mention the Wall play at 1:32 because Cal is now getting some heat for lack of timeouts. Think of that play, would we rather Wall have just brought the ball up at “normal” speed and then called a time-out to plan some sort of set play with the score tied on the road? Or would we rather let a guy who jumped out of his bassinet ready to make plays do what he does best- make a play- even (especially?) on the road?
Cal is recruiting playmakers, and I support that 100%.
Nothing works all of the time- or else one team would figure it out and horde all of the championships for itself.
-- Tim
Lexington
I really don't buy the luck theory
Last year’s team just seemed to find a way to win. A lot of that had to do with John Wall’s ability to make things happen late in the game. He was the guy who everybody wanted to have the ball in his hands. This year’s team seems to struggle in finding that go to guy. As far as being spoiled,I have been spoiled for almost 50 years when it comes to UK basketball.
50 Years
UK in the 1960’s – 70’s – 80’s won 1 NC (plus 1 NIT) over 30 seasons. How did that spoil you?
UK in the 1990’s won 2 NC over 10 seasons. Now THAT may have spoiled you.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 6, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Not taking sides .... just saying .... maysville was spoiled by 50 years of UK basketball ,,,
While we all like the NC years at UK, there is much more – to me – anyway … I’m spoiled by our record against SEC competition over that time, by our record in SEC Championships and Tournaments … our success in the NCAA tournament … and the recruiting and play of our team since Cal has come on board.
Thank you ukchris
You get it. Being a UK fan isn’t just about the titles. It’s about being a part of something that is truly special. I grew up in Kentucky and Big Blue is in my heart and soul. Maybe that sounds silly to some but to me it’s part of my life and my way of life. It’s why over half my wardrobe is something UK. It’s why an entire floor of my home is decorated in UK memorabilia. It’s why I come here to talk about the Cats with other fans from all across the country…maybe the world. It’s why a trip to Rupp Arena is like a trip to a holy shrine even if the occasion is a concert. I know I share much of this with others who come to this site. Yes I love the titles and every year that’s how I want the season to end but being spoiled doesn’t mean just that. It means being a part of the Big Blue Nation. And to that I will be a lifetime member.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 6, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%, maysvilleblue
.
Titles are great, and I would love to collect them and pass UCLA, but last year was one long joy-ride.. and I loved every minute of it.
Well, almost every minute….
This year’s team isn’t done, either.
-- Tim
Lexington
Good for you Maysville - great response from a True Blue fan
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Maysville,
I want to rec’d that 10 times. Like you, it is part of me, and it is my way of life too. As I have said before, I was born blue and I will die blue.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Same kudos to you a2
Even if we slightly disagree about the current direction of our FB program is taking or has been over my lifetime:-)
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
The way I look at it,
Positive thinking is good for us.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Except maybe if you are an Atheist and your head is stuck in a Guillotine
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Amen!
I agree with you that going to Rupp, even for a concert, is like traveling to a holy shrine. Even walking by it can get your heart racing.
I’ve been a fan through the good times (The Unforgettables, ‘96 and ’98 titles, Last Season) and the bad (the Sutton scandal, “The Shot”, Billy Gillespie, etc), the thick and the thin, and no matter what, I will always be proud to wear the Blue and White. I remembered during one of the first exhibition games last season, Coach Cal made an interesting but true comment: “These fans are crazy.” Yes, yes we are, but in a good way.
Being a part of the Big Blue Nation is not just about being a UK fan. It’s about going to an exhibition game and seeing Rupp nearly completely full, it’s about watching games on TV and cheering and hollering as if you are there (not to mention critizing the referees when they make bad calls). It’s about traveling to Canada for see your team play exhibition games in the middle of July. And, perhaps most importantly, it’s about supporting your team whether they win or lose.
Yes, losing sucks, especially when it is close, but you set it aside and move on to the next game. Yeah, I start out every year thinking we can win the NC or reach the FF, but doesn’t every other team? The season ain’t over yet folks…
by CATFAN85 on Feb 10, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
1960 Through 1967
UK had 1 (maybe 2) UK caliber teams in 8 years.
The 1980’s were hardly UK caliber decade.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 6, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Forty
We aren’t always talking NC when we say Uk had a good year. All these years that UK was respected and won most of their games. How do you think we got the record against Ole Miss. They have only won 13 times in history. We used to be to “Gold Standard” now we can be beat.
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
60's - 70's - 80's
Many not-so-good years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 6, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
And some pretty good ones
Final Fours in all of those decades and a title in 78.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
2000's Averaged More W (Per Season) Than Any Of Those 3 Decades
Missing FF and NC of course.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 7, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Which would you rather have?
More wins per season in a decade or FF’s and NT’s??
by maysvilleblue on Feb 8, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
I See 1980's And 2000's About The Same
1984 FF was “trumped” by 1989 NCAA sanctions, marginal NCAA results, etc.
The 2000’s included multiple SEC champs, SECT champs, and good success (not great) in NCAA most years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 8, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Of the decades you mentioned...
2000’s was the only one void of a FF. That decade to me as a Cat fan was far more frustrating than the 80’s,even with probation. The reason? UK had the talent to make it to the FF several times in the 2000’s but failed to make it.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 8, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Opinions
The 80’s also had THREE 1 & Done NCAA outcomes (1st round L).
The 2K’s had the first UK team (2003) to finish # 1 in AP poll since 1978 and the first UK team (also 2003) in over 50 years to go undefeated versus SEC opponents.
UK had the talent numerous times in the 80’s to make FF and only made it once.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 8, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes opinions
And I stand by mine that the decade of 2000 was a lot more frustrating to me as a UK fan. Maybe it was the double-digit loss seasons or the style of play that at times was similar in pain as a root canal. Maybe it was watching UK lose it’s superiority in the SEC and no longer being among the elite on the national stage. Whatever the reason,that’s my opinion and I am sticking to it.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 9, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting
You may wish to compare average # L of L per season in 1980’s to 2000’s – it’s less than 1 L (per season) different.
UK was slipping out of elite category in 1980’s also.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 9, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
At no point in my lifetime was this program as far from elite status than at the end of the 2000 decade. Quote all the numbers and percentages that you want but that is how I see it. Thankfully Coach Cal has the program back in the category of elite and it took him all of one season to do it.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 9, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I Don't Agree
UK in 1989 was farther from “elite” than at any other time in my lifetime (60 years – 1951 to 2011).
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 9, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Then we agree to disagree
1989 was bad no question. But soon as Rick Pitino was hired I knew he would have UK back among the elite…and he did. In his third year he had UK within a game of the FF. And of course if not for that infamous shot they would have made it. The next year they were in in the FF. During the final years of the decade of 2000 I wasn’t sure how long it would be before they returned to elite status. I know you don’t agree with this because you see it as putting down a certain coach and I don’t wish to have that conversation again but the fact is the program suffered during his final years. Then came the Billy G. debacle. Thanks goodness Coach Cal took the job and in one year returned the program to elite.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 9, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Same With Calipari Being Hired In 2009
UK was instantly elite again.
Although I like Coach Hall, I prefer Calipari to any UK coach since Rupp.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 10, 2011 7:03 AM EST up reply actions
Then I suppose...
your dislike of the ’80’s is based on the post-Joe B. years?
by maysvilleblue on Feb 10, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Not At All
The 1980’s teams had GOBS of talent but had 1 FF and 2 NCAA major infractions to show for it. It was a tough time to be a UK fan.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 10, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Au contraire - Why the 80's were special to me
We gave UofL their greatest loss of all time in ‘86 when UK defeated UL 85-51 and on their home floor. That was also the year they won their last NCAA Championship. That was and maybe will always be one of the SWEETEST wins I’ll ever remember…!
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
One Game = Not Much
That decade featured UK teams with LOADS of talent but minimal success in NCAA.
Specifically 13-9 in NCAA tournament (or 11-8 if you throw out 1988 results).
PS that game (versus U of L) was actually in 86-87 season when Louisville did not even play in NCAA.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Spoiled
My all-time favorite UK team didn’t win a title, or even get to the Final Four. The Unforgettables are everything that was/is great about UK Basketball. If this UK team, had just one of that starting five to turn to in late game situations we would be sitting at no more than two losses. Right now the “experience” is not experienced and can’t be counted on when the backs are against the wall. The best players on the team are freshmen and will make freshmen mistakes….mistakes that were often nullified by Wall and Bledsoe and Cuz’s superior talent last year.
The Unforgettables
My favorite UK team.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 8, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
We had a deep experienced bench last year that
helped quite a bit also. Wall heroics aside, it takes more than 6 players in the SEC, this is not Conference USA.
Again If FF Are Your Only Measure Of Success
You should have been rooting for UCLA or North Carolina since the 1970’s.
UK has trailed both (and now Duke) for over 20 years in the Most FF category.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 6, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
But FF Are NOT My Sole Measure Of Success
Nor are NC.
Overall, UK is # 1 but in terms of NCAA results, UCLA is clear # 1 of all time.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 7, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
but are you only a Kentucky fan because they're #1 in wins??
If you are, that’s the saddest way to pick a team to root for that I’ve ever heard of. I’ve heard you make that statements like that before (“you should have been rooting for X team if you value X accomplishment the most”) and I really do not understand what you’re saying. Clearly, few people decide what team they are “for” by a dispassionate evaluation of numeric criteria, so I’m curious what it is you mean by that.
By the way, I totally agree with you about the Final Four thing. It has become curiously overblown as a way to judge a program on a pass/fail basis.
by blue kentucky girl on Feb 7, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Of Course Not
Overall (many factors) UK has the # 1 program all-time.
Last 25 years, it’s Duke. Last 50 years, it’s UCLA.
But last 100+ years, it’s UK. And it’s not even close.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 7, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
BKG...
you must have forgotten who you were replying to…if ever anyone decided what team they were “for” by a dispassionate evaluation of numeric criteria, it is Forty.
not saying that is right or wrong, but that is Forty…for better or for worse. sometimes i love it and sometimes it drives me crazy…
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Feb 7, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
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