Kentucky Vs. Indiana: Perhaps Now Would Be a Good Time To Go Back To Neutral Sites
by Glenn Logan on Dec 14, 2011 9:33 AM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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I am used to receiving occasional reports of fan mistreatment both at Kentucky and other venues, so the recent spate of anecdotal evidence of over-the-top fan misbehavior at Saturday's game versus the Indiana Hoosiers is nothing new for me. For the most part, I take these reports with a grain of salt. Fans are fans, and drunken or abusive fans are present in every arena at every big game.
Unfortunately, when I read this piece over at Vaught's Views, I dropped my salt shaker. It's one thing to get a negative report from an anonymous fan on KSR, or from Anthony Wireman, or in various other fan sites around the Internet. But Larry Vaught is arguably the most respected reporter in Kentucky when it comes to the Wildcats. He is known as the dean of the Kentucky sports media for a reason.
The most disturbing part of the article, for me, came at the end, when Larry wrote:
I wish I could say she might be embellishing. But she’s not. I never heard the f-bomb dropped as much as I did at this game. To be fair, some Indiana officials warned students to quit using the word, but that was about as effective as me telling the rain to stop falling during a thunderstorm. Unless you were at the game, it’s hard to describe the animosity. I know I talked to the parent of one UK player who was stunned by the atmosphere inside the arena.
I am speaking for me only, but this was the most damning indictment of the environment at Assembly Hall that can be had. This is not a rabid Kentucky fan, blue in tooth and claw, speaking here. This is Larry Vaught of the Danville Advocate-Messenger, one of the most reasonable and honest men in all of sports media. His word may not be gospel to everyone, but trust me on this -- when he speaks, especially like this, he has my undivided attention. What this means to me is that this matter has now passed beyond the everyday anecdote of fan misbehavior into the realm of the disturbing, troubling, and downright unacceptable. This matter can no longer be brushed off or ignored.
The really worrisome question, and the one that nobody has asked, is what happens if UK wins that game on a bad call or a last-second shot? The prospect, considering the apparent mood of the crowd even in victory, is terrifying to imagine.
Fan behavior is always a sore spot with me, as you can see by our community guidelines, but to their great credit, every Indiana fan but one who commented on this blog after the game demonstrated nothing but the highest and most praiseworthy class. But when it comes to live arenas, everyone understands if there is some harsh language and some misbehavior due to passion and partisanship. Some of that should and must be overlooked and treated as a "heat of the moment" type thing.
Also, we have to be fair to Indiana in this case. IU has suffered through three miserable seasons since Kelvin Sampson guided the once-proud Hoosiers onto the shoals of NCAA lawlessness, and the recovery from that shipwreck has been long and painful. These are proud people we are talking about -- proud of their program and their school, and justifiably so.
But even if we make allowances for the enormity of the game, the passion of the resurgent Hoosier fans and the completely understandable pent-up frustration that was released on Saturday, this sort of misbehavior cannot be ignored or tolerated. I am quite certain UK will take notice of Larry Vaught. It is one thing to see me link a few tough stories and for KSR to post one, but Vaught brings a level of credibility to this issue that cannot be ignored by either the school or UK partisans.
I think, by these actions, it is no longer safe for us to hold a home-home series with the Hoosiers. I fear that UK fans may well retaliate for this event next year, or at least some bad apples might, and that's unacceptable. I know that neither IU nor UK wants to become Xavier or Cincinnati, and in light of that particular debacle, I hope both schools will consider moving the series back to neutral sites like Freedom Hall and Conseco Fieldhouse.
Let me be clear about one thing -- this has nothing to do with the Indiana team or the program. IU did not encourage or enable this behavior, and I do understand it was born out of years of frustration. My concern is that it was apparently so bad it won't be forgotten, and it could be the genesis of violence, however we may attempt to rationalize and justify it. This has nothing to do with the team or the state, or probably 95% of Hoosier or UK fans.
But the now-undeniable fact is, there were way too many fans, for whatever reason, acting the very fool in Bloomington last weekend, and it's time to go to neutral sites. Better to be safe than Xavier.
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I grew up on Larry and his father Bill's writing in Danville - a disturbing read
When you idealize one the most bitter and obnoxious men ever as your Patron Saint, how can you expect “his people” not to act similarly? His arrogance and lack of class has rubbed off on more than one generation of IU fan. The worse thing is they feel their superiority is justified.
I hope all of BBN remembers this when we play them and respond, not in kind, but with quality sportsmanship. Fan give and take is one thing – that display in Assembly Hall dehumanizes people (I fear that is the path of our culture).
JandPsDad
Been Blue All My Life
Bleedin' BLUE all over NW Indiana
You nailed it.
bump.
mostdiggity
by Thomas Mario Adams III on Dec 15, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Fanning the flames...
I am disappointed. This article is very irresponsible, and the positive comments aren’t helping. It is fanning the flames of animosity and vitriol. So you want Wildcat fans to get more obnoxious and hostile towards Hoosiers? That is exactly what you are accomplishing with this piece. Well done sir. Yes, IU has the market cornered on rash fans. Assembly Hall is the only place an ill word has been spoken about an opposing team or bad fan behavior has been evident. That is very rich coming from a Wildcat fan. As a KENTUCKIAN, I have witnessed firsthand the zeal in which Catsfans worship their team. UK fans will brag about their loyal fan base and their absolute dedication to the team. So nothing bad ever comes from this fervor? No UK fan has ever acted out? I can go to Rupp Arena in a Louisville Cardinals outfit and not witness the finger or the f-word or get shoved? I have been to the belly of the beast, Rupp Arena, when Louisville played the Cats and I can’t say I was greeted with open arms and sportsmanship. UK fans can be particularly rabid at such times. There is a saying about glass houses and stones, but it escapes me… As decent fans you should accept the loss and move on to bigger and better things. Yes if you go into opposing teams territories you may receive the same treatment you dish out at home. Perhaps this could be a teachable moment and help us all mind our behaviors at home games and realize the opposing team fans are people just like us. You can’t complain about sportsmanship when you are not very sportsmanlike yourself. Or we could just whip ourselves into a frenzy and pile more hate on top of hate.
I respect Indiana.
I respect there tradition and there passion. It has been said that only 5% or so of fans engage in such behavior, however some times 5% of fans can be 100% of the problem. They are a lot like us fans of great programs with proud histories. We all must realize that how we act as fans is a big part of how your favorite team is perceived. Did everyone see fans at the Xavier game? Some where actually rooting on the fight. I say moving to a neutral site is a good idea. How about this years NCAA tournament for a start :-)
by phatcatfan on Dec 14, 2011 10:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Excellent write-up, Glenn
Can’t really say anymore except I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment.
That Vaught article was disturbing, to say the least.
Why Surprised?
The reaction of a few IU fans should come as no amazement to anyone who follows the continuing deterioration of behavior in our society. If you’ve attended any public event, be it sports, concerts, or political rallies, recently you should be aware of the debasement of human demeanor. Frankly I’m surprised violence doesn’t occur more often.
Let’s take a look at some of the baser aspects of our society today:
Coarseness of society: You see this everywhere, no longer a society with reasonable decorum, but one where people seek to expand on the shock value in so many ways: language, dress, personal relationships, habits, and yes, addictions. Obviously, none of these are tasteful elements that make us proud.
Rudeness: Good manners are out the window, possibly forever. Decent consideration of others is often unknown. This takes forms such as in conversation, and in interruption during conversations, pushing and shoving in crowds, talking too loud, and yes, incessant loud carrying on of cell telephone conservations in public places to the annoyance of all. No doubt you can think of more.
Violence and barbarous aggressiveness: We see it in everyday muggings, robbery, home invasions, smashing of store windows and incidental criminal diversions in public. Young thugs act as hardened criminals with no regard for the individual, whether man, woman or child. You wonder if all these video games, where wanton destruction and rampage takes place, have produced a society where such violence is almost incidental.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Why blame video games?
Not to debate entirely, but that is a bit foolish to say. Before video games and televisions, there were still people acting as you described. It is human nature.
I do agree with your overall points, however.
http://www.JohnWallWear.com
by kentuckyrules on Dec 14, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I’m not surprised by the treatment of UK fans and you make valid points as to why. Here is another. If you were a UK fan going to Bloomington to watch this game you had to think it could be ugly. I love UK with all my heart but in no way,shape or form would I have even thought about going there to watch the Cats play. Sometimes you just have to use common sense and to me it’s sort of like buyer beware. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior and it’s a shame because it was a great game. It didn’t end the way I hoped but how many teams have opponent fans rush the floor just because their team won the game? And they wouldn’t have just a few years ago when UK was bordering on no longer being relevant in college basketball. It’s another signal UK is back in a big,big way and it’s where IU fans are hoping to be again.
by maysvilleblue on Dec 14, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Bloomington is like a company town
Of the 80,000+ residents, 42,000 are students, and the rest are a mixture of faculty, staff, and people whose livelihoods depend on the university. Despite the fact that it’s very cosmopolitan and people come from every state and all over the world, it’s still very insular. There are usually no more than a couple dozen opposing fans at home basketball games, and they sit behind the visitor’s bench. Even Purdue fans don’t show up like UK fans did. (As an aside, there weren’t the “hundreds” of UK fans that people insisted there would be, and I knew would not happen. I actually saw some UK fan post on a site saying the crowd would be 1/3 UK. Really? IU fans are way too diehard to sell their tickets like that. Not when they averaged over 16,000 at home for 3 losing seasons in a row.) Going to Bloomington as a proud UK fan in your Kentucky Blue (and—be honest—you know how some of you can be) is like driving a Honda to a meeting of GM shareholders. It’s not an excuse for the behavior, but still a fact. However, for football, I guarantee there would’ve been no problems.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
behavior like that makes us all look bad
and i’m worried about how Kentucky fans will act next year at the game in Rupp, especially the students. It probably wont be as bad as this game was, but i’ll bet more than a few will be “asked” to leave. And we have some pretty volatile fans too. I’m a senior in high school, and monday a kid decided to wear an Indiana jacket, for whatever reason. He left school early because of people harassing him. Even teachers told him to take the jacket off.
I've heard some horror stories about how IU fans treated UK fans that day.
Both at Assembly Hall and at bars around Indianapolis and Bloomington. It’s disgraceful.
Yes, I’m sure fans of other places have negative stories about treatment by some redneck Kentucky fans, but generally, other than some good natured razzing, I’ve found the fans at Rupp Arena to be kind, generous, and dignified in their treatment of opposing fans. I’ve also never been scared to wear a UK shirt at an opposing team’s venue, but after last weekend, I would think long and hard about wearing a UK shirt to a game in Bloomington.
Contrast the stories coming out of Bloomington last weekend with the stories that came out of Lexington during the UK/UNC game (see, for just one example, the UNC writer’s tale of being invited, and going, to a UK fan’s house for dinner with the UK fan’s family after the game) just for an example.
And on top of it all, I’ve never seen so much vitriol spouted before a game as was spouted by IU fans and writers on message boards, media outlets, and the like, leading up to the game.
Yes, this all probably represents a small fraction of IU fans in general, but the behavior of that small fraction over the last week was just disgraceful, and I can’t think of an example of UK fans, even the 1%, disbehaving so badly.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Most are overlooking the set-up for this game
Tom Crean made some very inflammatory statements leading up to the game, along the lines of “let’s keep the BBN out of our house,” and “I don’t wan to see any blue in our house.”
IMO this was the “red” flag to all Hoosiers to treat UK fans as invaders that must be resisted to the maximum. He set the tone that UK fans “do not need to be here.”
I know he was trying to motivate his fanbase but perhaps he’s unaware of how near the surface “Hoosier Hysteria” is and how out-of-control it can be once released.
Great game all just my 2 cents
Did you guys happen to notice on coachcal.com how many hits and comments about UK not playing IU anymore? How many Hoosier fans do you think read that? The comments about IU not being good enuff for UK to play anymore….70% get rid of IU… I’m a 52 year old Hoosier. Ive seen about every UK/IU game played in the last 40 years and have loved them all…2 great universities…I was so upset to see the comments about how Kentuckians felt about that rivalry…..Take time and go back and read the comments and insert UK everytime for IU and see how you feel…. I’m sure some of you on here made a few of them… I would call that artical alone stirring a great big pot..think about,,good luck the rest of the year Thanks
Interesting point.
Maybe they used Crean’s comments as license to act out. It’s entirely possible. Perhaps we should be grateful he didn’t float the idea of using “2nd Amendment remedies” to keep blue out of the arena. Of course, we’re not just talking about the mob dynamic inside. The stories extend outside the arena as well. It’s hard to look at this and not see parallels to other areas of intolerance that have grown in this country.
This would be a good story for Sports Illustrated. When Hoosier Hysteria runs amok.
Whence fair play?
Yes the actions of a vocal minority are reprehensible and someone needs to take action to correct the situation. But the IU tradition has made an icon of a hateful and vile man, because he was “successful” when it came to winning games. And he continues to spew forth his bile, as in his recent comments about Cal and UK.
Calipari asked which rivalry game should be cancelled, I think he got his answer in trumps. Not that the IU fan base will change their ways due to our ending the series, they will view it as “chasing us out of town” or some such, but it will insure that we don’t end up with a travesty like what happened in Cinncy. We don’t need an Indiana game to give our team “relevance”, and quite frankly right now IU does need us. Let them get their house in order. If and when they get control of their boorish behavior, then and only then we can see if there is room on our schedule for them.
To excuse the behavior because it is common in some NFL and NBA venues is specious, the “groves of academe” are where we are grooming our youth to meet the future. There are expectations of behavior that are greater than that found in a biker bar or a pool hall, if only the authorities have the cajones to act.
Where would it stop?
UK takes IU off it’s schedule. Then it happens at Tenn. and then Florida. What then? I agree with what you are saying but UK sees this behavior just about every place it plays to some extent.
by maysvilleblue on Dec 14, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
If everybody went to the same restaurant one evening to eat blintzes, there'd be chaos.
But they don’t.
“To some extent” misses the point. Never, anywhere, has UK seen such behavior. blenheim is right. Calipari has his answer. Someone needs to make that point on CoachCal.com.
Never Say Never
A cousin of mine lived for a time in Knoxville and he became a UT season ticket holder just so he could go see UK play UT. He finally gave the tickets up because of incidents like being spat on,having beer poured on him and verbal abuse. A close friend of mine went to Vandy for a game two years ago and he feared for his life. Yes it has happened before.
by maysvilleblue on Dec 14, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I respectfully disagree
IU doesn’t need to play UK. Want, yes. Want more than UK fans? Of some generations and in some regions of the state, maybe. But in northern Indiana (and the vast majority of people in the state live north of Indianapolis), the rivalry barely registers on the radar compared to Purdue, Michigan State, Ohio State when they’re good, and recently Illinois since Bruce Weber can’t stop whining about Eric Gordon. Notre Dame used to be a big rivalry, too, when Digger was coach, and now we don’t even play them every year. I love the IU/UK game, but IU doesn’t need anyone…except for maybe the Big Ten Conference and it’s $$$.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I respectfully disagree
CH, I live in NW Indiana and as a UK fan (I have a few things about my house that let the neighborhood know…) I have heard more about this game both before and after than any in the last 23 years. IU and her fans needed that game, if for nothing else – self-esteem. Like UT is to UK in football – UK has been to IU since Sampson.
When Cal posited that we drop a home-and-home – I hoped the IU series would not end. Now, honestly, I am not so sure.
JandPsDad
Been Blue All My Life
Bleedin' BLUE all over NW Indiana
Needed _that_ game
Against the #1 team on national TV. Not specifically against UK…although that helped.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
just a comment to the hoosier
The only rivalries you mentioned are Big 10 Rivalries (with the exception of the Notre Dame one you claim no longer matters). UK has important games out of conference… so yes, IU needs UK more than the other way around. Also, I grew up in northern Indiana and people cared plenty that our family consisted of UK fans. My mother never has said much when UK has dominated the series over the past 20 years, but she told me that this week has been miserable with comments flowing back the other way.
by coloradocatfan on Dec 14, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I would think the Big Ten would be enough
Especially this year. Historically it has been a much better basketball conference than the SEC, so UK needs to schedule more big out-of-conference games to keep up their strength of schedule. The SEC has improved immensely, but I think from top to bottom the B1G is still the stronger league. It’s also a little myopic to infer that because UK has more big out-of-conference games now that somehow IU does not or can’t in the future have the same type of schedule without Kentucky. While the program has known it will be down due to the Sampson debacle, so has softened the schedule to adjust for it, IU just came off a series against arguably the best program in the last 10 years, UConn, and has in the recent past played in the same early-season exempt tournaments as UK. Just a couple of ago a terrible IU team beat a good Pitt team in MSG. We’ve also had past series against Kansas, have the Big Ten/ACC Challenge, etc. I mean, we were ranked in the top 10 as recently as 2008 and thumped UK pretty good that season. It wasn’t that long ago. I don’t take away from UK’s strength of schedule at all, but to act like IU won’t eventually have the same is a little dishonest.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I never said IU couln't find another big school to play...
All I am saying is that as the schedule currently stands, IU would miss the game more than UK would. Also, the out of conference schedule is the only part of the schedule that can be controlled. I won’t argue that the Big 10 is typically the better conference top to bottom, but I do know that as a UK fan I look forward to the annual rivalry games (IU, UNC, UL), in addition to the random big games (SEC-Big East Challenge, Champions Classic, Maui or whatever tourney). I just think IU fans would miss the game more than UK fans would from that perspective, because we still have 2 other comparable games while IU doesn’t.
I don’t want to argue about it, I know plenty of IU fans from home and while I never have liked Knight, I really don’t have a problem with IU and am glad ya’ll are playing with the big boys again. Congrats on a great win. I do hope it goes back to a neutral site, because when I used to watch games at the RCA Dome every year I didn’t have to worry about people spitting in my face and I don’t recall the f-bomb being dropped quite so freely. The stories really are ridiculous, no matter who you pull for. I know UK fans can be obnoxious, and some of these stories may be made up, but in the 8 years I had tickets for UK games at Rupp I never saw anything that came close to what I have been reading.
As someone who spent 18 years in the Hoosier state, I really don’t want to see the series go. But going back to a neutral site sounds like a good idea. I miss seeing that Red/Blue division line of the fans anyway.
by coloradocatfan on Dec 14, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
And all of the flags at the under 7:00 time out.
Don’t forget that. Ha!
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
indeed
So much hate over such a small factor in life. I know that we Kentucky fans are notorious basketball zealots, but there is still some chivalry in a respect to the game and its players, on both sides of the court.
A Subject I am Obsessed with...
I have written about this at length elsewhere, but I must comment.
Foul language in public must be confronted. I do not and will not tolerate it at any event I attend. I politely (mostly) ask for it to stop and if it doesn’t the ushers are asked to deal with it. I push the issue until they deal with it. This is something a man must do. Now I am not so stupid to think I could attend a Phillies game in a Rockies jersey and be treated with courtesy and have any impact one the language so one must pick their battles.
It speaks volumes about IU that they have reached this point. Just as Tru’s short suspension speaks volumes about Xavier.
I would hope that anyone attending an event at Rupp would put a stop to such language. Only been once in 30 plus years but I would. I do it at events I attend here in Colorado.
This really is a school/regional issue. As mentioned before a CU fan (or in my wife’s case an OSU fan) could/can attend a Nebraska game in full color and expect to be treated well and hear absolutely no bad language. It is an amazing experience. However, when Nebraska used to come to CU they were treated horribly and here is what is interesting about that: everyone knew it wasn’t Colorado kids/people acting that way, but east coast folks who wanted to hang in Boulder for a few years.
Everyone knew that, including the Nebraska people, but no one would talk about it. Or write about it because it forced folks to confront things they don’t want to confront. Nebraska fans respected the game more than CU fans. Hopefully, UK fans will always respect the game more than IU fans.
Resolve in your life to set an example. Open doors for everyone. Say yes sir/ma’am and no sir/ma’am. Always say please, thank you and look for opportunities to help. If you swear apologize for it immediately and resolve not to do it again.
This isn’t a new issue btw. Historically, there has been a ongoing battle between classes and regions how one should behave and speak. What is interesting today is how the “elites” CU/IU have adopted white trash behavior that a typical narrative would project onto the rubes at NU/UK.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions
Hear, hear!
Let us always adhere to our tradition to behave like ladies and gentlemen, and let the yahoos stew in their own juices.
I still have and use one of those souvenir mugs with a UK wildcat doffing his hat, which reads “A Kentucky Man needs no introduction.” And hopefully we will not need an apologist.
by blenheim bard on Dec 14, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
So Bloomington is full of east coast elites?
I bet it’s those people from Philly, infecting the midwest and the Rockies with their foul language and discourteous ways.
I guess we end up choosing our own intolerances. Life is short, and it pays not to pick too many battles, especially losing ones. I liked M. Night Shyamalan’s “The Village,” but I wouldn’t want to live there. No, I’m not offended by George Carlin’s 7 words, or whatever it’s down to now. I want to hear Richard Pryor. I want to see “Pulp Fiction.” They’re just words. The only power they have is the power you give them.
IU is about 68% from the state of Indiana
Over 25% from Illinois. The rest from all over.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say that.
Elites are not necessarily elites btw, they simply think they are.
What you choose to listen to is your choice and affects no one but you and like minded folks. It is your choice. Completely support that…
How one acts and speaks in public is a completely different matter.
Yes and CU was 75% (it is declining in order to increase oos tuition) Colorado and that 25% from elsewhere made all the difference.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Dec 14, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be in favor of a neutral site if it was always in Louisville
Normally I’m not a fan of neutral site rivalry games, but it can be done well. The annual Mizzou-Illinois game in St. Louis is a perfect example. At the halfcourt line half of the arena is wearing black and gold and the other half is in blue and orange. It’s always right before Christmas, has a festive feel and the crowd’s behavior is generally exemplary. I would not be in favor of switching games between Louisville and Indianapolis.
Sports world gone mad
Xavier / UC
IU Fans / UK
Then this..
A diehard New York Jets fan was savagely beaten on his own turf by a drunken gang of Kansas City Chiefs fans after their team was trounced Sunday — with one of the assailants barking “F*ck New York” and “You all deserved what happened on 9/11,” the victim’s distraught family told the New York Post.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro...Hunter S. Thompson
Wow.
Where does this come from?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Dec 14, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Who knew
there were Chief fans outside the KC are? I was so surprised I read the article. I think there is more there than is being reported. KC Chiefs apparel has long been worn by various gangs associated with the Bloods btw.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Dec 14, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
this story will need to be followed up on. Will be interesting to see if there is something we’re not getting now.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro...Hunter S. Thompson
I guess this behavior doesn't surprise me.
.
Like a few others have said, It may be hard for a fanbase to make an idol out of a bullying, classless jerk and not have their own behavior influenced by it. (I am assuming that Knight is still on their radar there.)
Really, Indiana is not much to spend time on. If a neutral site can be worked out and maintain the money UK needs, then that’s alright. Or dropping the series altogether is fine. Or still playing home-and-home. Any of these is fine with me because IU is still just a middling program right now that is not much to think about, either way.
IU = meh
.
"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N.Y.
Could
Go into a whole spill about society but weasel covered it well. We are raising a me generation though with no consideration of others. We are teaching that we are not responsible for others feelings. Anyway, I’m fine with it the way it is. If your a Uk fan you better put the war paint on and your big girl panties because it won’t be easy going to a game like that. It is up to IU to make sure that it’s safe. I didn’t like storming the court. That was scary. The players can get injured like that. As far as our players, it toughens them up. They can play in any venue now.
by tenken on Dec 14, 2011 1:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Let's not confuse fan behavior for player behavior
I know that neither IU nor UK wants to become Xavier or Cincinnati, and in light of that particular debacle, I hope both schools will consider moving the series back to neutral sites like Freedom Hall and Conseco Fieldhouse.
The XU and UC fight was between the players, not the fans. This was no Malice in The Palace where the fans were joining the fray. IU and UK players both exhibited perfect sportsmanship on Saturday, in spite of the hostile environment. Not that they should be congratulated, because this should be expected, but they also shouldn’t be compared to the players at the Cintas Center. Thank God Tu Holloway decommited from IU after Sampson was fired. His post-game comments showed his character and the type of player Sampson recruited. No wonder Dakich kicked what was left of them off the team.
I preferred the neutral site games. For one, I actually got to get a ticket every year, and the excitement of the two fan bases together was unique and special. Would I be heartbroken if the series was discontinued? No, but I do believe it would be a shame after playing at least once per season for 42 seasons for it to end. I don’t think either program “needs” the other in order to be successful, but it would be disappointing on a national scale for this rivalry to end. But like I’ve been saying to everyone, if UT and A&M can stop playing football on Thanksgiving, anything can happen.
That's a fair point.
Although my intent wasn’t to conflate player and fan behavior, really, but to illustrate the consequences of a rivalry gone too intense, or with too much anger involved.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I heard a Cinti reporter on the Dan Dakich show the other day
Wish I could remember his name, but he said that in Cincinnati XU and UC think they are like UNC/Duke, but don’t realize that only people in Cincinnati think that. :)
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 14, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I havn't read anyone else's comments - but I say screw Indiana University, screw their fans and especially screw Crean
Drop this series now before someone really gets hurt, either a brain-dead IU fan or a UK fan or most importantly an innocent child.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
We sure as hell don't need Indiana - I say replace them with a Kansas or equivalent if need be
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
We don't need any team.
Indiana is a major historical rival and they should not be dropped.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I would reply
that they are now a major hysterical rival and should be dropped for the safety of our fans and team.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
I don't agree.
We just need to move it to neutral sites, like it used to be.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Just randomly came across this fan post on another site
http://www.hailtotheorange.com/2011/11/2/2534680/a-personal-apology-from-a-purdue-fan
What the heck? I can remember my first football game at IU and being shocked that the home fans booed the visiting team when they came out on the field because that is not something my high school allowed, but I never saw anything like this or the above, and the late ‘90s were not that long ago. (At least I hope they’re not!) I’m not really optimistic that universities will begin to deal with these situations effectively, unfortunately.
I would think a nuetral site (such as RCA dome or whatever its called)
would have the majority of the same fans at it as it would in Bloomington. Their are idiots among every group in every walk of life.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
RCA dome is gone.
It would be either Conseco Fieldhouse, where the Pacers play, or Lucas Oil Arena, I guess. Maybe there is another one I’m not aware of.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
yeah i couldnt think of the new arena or where an IU/UK game would be played if nuetral
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
speaking as someone
who has seen a college basketball game played in a stadium meant for football I can tell you that something is definitely lost in a place that big.
I think a neutral site is a decent enough idea and though I’m not sure where, I think something smaller would be better. I have no idea what it’s like to play in the aforementioned places, of course, but just speaking for the fan experience, you really lose the energy and the intimacy of a college basketball game when it’s played at a football facility.
Since most of the Final Fours
are played in domes these days, it might be a very good experience for a young team.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
Lucas Oil was actually designed with basketball in mind
Knowing that Indy gets the Final Four every 4 or 5 years. What other state designs a football stadium for basketball? Anyway, I haven’t seen a game there yet, and I imagine there is something lost due to it being even bigger than the RCA Dome, but I think it would be a good experience for the players. Before IU and UK went to a home-and-home series, I remember reading an article that said that UK prefered to have the game every year at the RCA Dome because your crowd travels well, the gate was better, and the scheduling conflicts were less than with Freedom Hall. Of course, that was all before IU went in the crapper for 3 years and they tore the RCA Dome down.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
Lucas Oil Stadium. I was thinking basketball. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Crowds at the RCA Dome and Freedom Hall were different
Definitely more alumni and local fan-heavy, with far fewer students. I’d say only a couple hundred students would be in the “student section,” not 45% of the crowd like at Assembly Hall. I’ve seen dozens of videos of the game on Saturday, and have watched the whole thing twice, and all of the foul-mouthed bad behavior I saw came from the students. (It’s also interesting to note that ESPN mentioned nothing about it, and IU’s radio guy, Don Fischer, didn’t say anything either, and he would normally be the first person to complain about vulgarity. There’s been nothing in the C-J or Indy Star.) At the neutral sites, fans sat with 10K-20K of their own, not in the middle of the opposing crowd in their home arena. (I’m also curious just how many IU fans are in Rupp during the games, and if they are there in any large number don’t receive similar treatment from UK fans.) I take the reports of people being shoved and physically assaulted with a HUGE grain of salt. There are ushers in every aisle, and cops in every section. If this was really happening, why wouldn’t someone complain. I sure as hell would. If they were shoved during the mad rush to the floor, well so were a lot of IU fans.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps Freedom Hall
Louisville is close enough to both schools to ensure a great turnout from both parties
I fear history could be repeated
A few years ago, a battle broke out on the Ohio River between Hoosiers and Kentuckians. The Hoosiers began to throw sticks of dynamite across the river. Kentuckians lit them and threw them back.
by jdogblue on Dec 14, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Back in the day
the Colgate Palmolive Co. in Jeffersonville had the largest clock in the world sitting on the shores of the Ohio river. Hoosiers were very proud of that accomplishment and never failed to brag to any Kentuckian they encountered when they drove to Louisville so that they could see what time it was.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
I'm not a hillbilly (and hopefully not an SOB)...
I prefer Appalachian American.
Slogan for the NCAA: If it ain't broke, break it.
Now that is funny.
I wish I had thought of it.
by darkandbloody@gmail.com on Dec 15, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Playing I.U.
I Think that the best thing that KY could do is drop Indiana from the schedule and tell them that the reason is because of the way our team and fans were treated this year. We don’t need IU, but they need us. I have family that live in Ind for years and I told them that they were taking the Indiana attitude and if they kept it up that I would disown them. They have since retired and moved to Tn and believe me they are different people to the good. I say DROP INDIANA from KY’S schedule
let me preface this by saying that
I respect kentucky. You have a basketball tradition and the type of values that make you as similar to IU as probably any other school. That’s probably why I have to ask WHY so many of you keep saying that IU needs you more than you need IU? It’s simply idiotic to say. When you’re number 1 in the country EVERY school has more to gain by playing you than you have to gain by playing them. You can’t go higher than number one; you can only maintain. Would you rather every year if Kentucky gains the number one ranking your administrators decide that you’ll no longer play any more games that year so that you can ‘retire’ as the best team in the land? I sincerely hope you see the point I’m trying to make so that this ridiculousness stops. You’re only making yourselves look foolish.
I want Indiana-Kentucky to continue because it’s a good rivalry, a good series, and it’s bound to get better. Plus, don’t you want revenge? If I was a Kentucky fan I think I’d be furious if the series was cancelled right after a heartbreaking loss like that. Do the rest of you agree with this guy? Surely his opinion isn’t representative of the majority of you.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
I want it to continue. I am concerned about this instant report. I liked it better when we were playing at freedom hall and the RCA dome.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I wouldn't mind neutral sites.
Most accurate way to determine which team is better anyway.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 15, 2011 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes ...
… and I thought the rivalry was a lot more about basketball and less about the environment at neutral sites.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I agree with neutral sites
As long as the Indy site is Conseco and not Lucas Oil. The final four in 2010 demonstrated that that site is not good for shooters. Way too much distance behind the baskets. The NBA learned a long time ago that football stadiums were not good for the game.
It is not so much that IU (in particular) needs UK (in particular)
That’s probably why I have to ask WHY so many of you keep saying that IU needs you more than you need IU?
as it is that a lower profile team (in this instance IU) needs a higher profile team (in this instance UK) to help it do things like jump into the rankings and have some signature wins at the end of the year when teams are included (and seeded) in post-season tournaments.
At the end of the year IU’s win over UK will undoubtedly be talked about at seedings time. If UK had won, the win over IU may not have even been mentioned when UK was given a 1-seed. That is the difference.
As for revenge: lower profile teams beat higher profile teams from time to time. It happens. Only speaking for myself, I don’t always think in terms of revenge after those losses as I do “Well, that was pretty dumb getting beat by that bunch…” But if the loss can contribute to the team getting stronger by the time the tournament rolls around, then it isn’t a complete waste. I would much rather that UK had won, but if we get in a tournament game with a lead with 5 seconds to go, maybe the coaches and players will be a lot smarter in how they defend the court. If that happens, then I will actually look back at the IU game as a big positive.
.
"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N.Y.
this.
agree. I wouldn’t be the least bit upset if the series were cancelled and just because we lost doesn’t change that. I don’t want revenge against IU. I suppose I’m more of a big picture person. I want the whole thing more, that’s the end goal, and dropping a couple games during the season is just a blip for the most part.
Also, it’s not like this was a complete and total blowout and we had a total collapse. Maybe if that had happened I might be pining for revenge as it was put, but no, this was a good, close game. Had a few things bounced our way, or had we hit a couple more free throw shots (I know, I know, we didn’t and IU deservedly won) but you get the point. We can certainly take some things away from this game, good and bad that we did, hopefully do better next time when it gets to crunch time and move on.
one more thing really quickly--
another reason that I not for once thought revenge was that yes, this loss sort of stung at first (all first losses on the season do for me though) — this was by no means an embarrassing loss and that is something I would think IU fans would be proud of. No, we lost a close game to a very respectable team who, if they continue to play in this fashion are certainly on the rise.
I am glad you have taken the time to try and help us understand how foolish we look to you.
But then I read this post of yours on your board
Finally, I hate Kentucky. A lot of their fans are good people and everyone over at aseaofblue was nice enough, but I hate hate hate their dirty basketball program, their cheating coach, and 95% of their mongoloid looking players. A lot of IU fans feel the same way. If any fanbase is going to bring out the worst in us it’s Kentucky.Who is looking foolish now?
I really feel sorry for your team having to rely on players with potentially serious medical conditions. I noticed several times that Adipoopoo or whatever his name is, fell over from the wind generated by our players blowing past him. Vertigo can be very serious and I hope he gets this looked into.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
Easy, big fella.
No need for one-upsmanship. That wasn’t said here. Let it go.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Just thought some might want to know
that just because a dog doesn’t growl at you it won’t bite you if it gets a chance. Especially when running with its pack.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
This Adipoopoo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JggkK89V3WU
I must admit, his dunk was semi negated by the fact that IU let UK score and easy basket on the other end.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I admit he's a good player
but he flops more than any Dukie or Tarheel I have ever seen and those guys set the standard.
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
Take a step back.
First, the things I have read about what happened before, during and after the game were terrible. In a perfect world, it would never happen. Unfortunately, our world is far from perfect. All you have to do is look at the Xavier and Cinci suspensions and realize that we care more about money than what is right.
That said, you can’t blame 95% of IU fans for the actions of 5%. I, for one, would have voted to drop IU from the schedule. Not because we don’t need them, or they need us more. That is petty and there are too many places at the table to think that either team couldn’t or wouldn’t replace the other. There are plenty of teams that would love to play a Big10 team with a storied history and one that will be a factor in basketball for years to come. Crean is a great coach, and I was hoping with everything in me that UK would have picked him over Gilispie 4 years ago.
The reason was simply that UNC is my #1 game to keep and that I like seeing UK beat UL. There is no reason these teams shouldn’t play every year. Even after this weekend and the recounts of what happened to UK fans, I want to keep IU. Living in Louisville, I would almost rather get rid of UL. If you look at it from the perspective of the future of basketball, I would rather play a top to mid-tier Big10 team than one in the BigEast. UCONN leaves and the BigEast just isn’t that good. Plus I wouldn’t have to listen to UL fans for a month before the game and if they won, till the same time next year. In the end my thoughts don’t mean a darn. I am a lowly person and it will ultimately be about money. Bottom line is that we need to listen the the wise words of one of the greatest thinkers of our time; “Stay classy” Kentucky.
For every post on here, KSR, or any other blog that is talking about this game there are a few in the bunch trash talking and calling IU fans the same things we are upset about. I am advocating blind apathy towards the actions of other fans. I just think we should all think before we rush to actions or words. Just think if Billy G had been here a few more years and the program had suffered like IU did these past few years. I find it hard to believe that a bunch of UK fans wouldn’t be acting the fool.
I think I'm going to disagree strongly.
UK didn’t act the fool when North Carolina came to town after they had beaten us five times in a row and had suffered through four or five years of irrelevance nationally. So I don’t see how I could agree with the statement that “UK fans would have done it too.” We have had chances to do just that, and declined to do so.
I don’t see any good reason why a border rivalry that has been going on since 1969 should be dropped. I like playing UNC, but if the historical value of the rivalry is to be considered, Indiana is a much longer-running rivalry. If UNC is your favorite game, fine, but from a historical, as well as geographical standpoint, it makes less sense to drop IU than UNC.
I live in Louisville as well, and I don’t want to get rid of them. It makes no sense whatever, and any such attempt would certainly be thwarted by the legislature as it almost was back in the 1980’s.
Finally, Kentucky fans may be less than totally classy on the Internet, but when it comes to live games, my experience is that UK fans are among the least likely to act the idiot. With that said, this affair has certainly motivated the worst of the fan base to try to return the favor, and that’s why I think the game needs to be moved back to neutral sites.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
You obviously skimmed what I wrote
I didn’t say UK fans would be doing it. I just don’t think it is a large stretch for people to get cussed at or treated poorly. I didn’t mean that UK fans would be pouring beers on people, pushing people down the stairs or anything like that. But, I have seen plenty of people acting like idiots at both basketball and football games. UNC might have won 5 times in a row, but I don’t think UK basketball totally bottomed out like IU did.
I agree, I don’t think we should get rid on the IU game. See paragraph 3. For a historical standpoint, UNC and UK are the two most winning programs. I like playing them. Beating them adds another win to our side. In truth, I don’t want to see any of the games go.
As far as class goes I have this to say. How many people come to Kentucky for vacation? How many come for business? I would say we are in the bottom 20% in those categories. So, what people portray of us is what they hear on TV and the internet. I agree that MOST UK fans are respectful at games and after, but to say that ALL UK fans or that rare 5% is just silly.
Finally, I wasn’t calling anyone out and nothing was directed at anything specific I saw written. I was just asking for everybody to continue to remain classy. I am sorry if I somehow hit a sore spot with you Glenn.
No sore spot at all, sorry you took it that way.
I just read the comment and I couldn’t figure it out. First, you said you would have voted to drop IU, then, you said you’d “almost rather” get rid of U of L. Your final sentence was essentially that you believed UK fans would have acted like IU fans are alleged to have done if the circumstances had been similar.
I’m afraid I couldn’t make sense out of all this. I don’t agree with the part about UK fans. I don’t know why anyone would vote to get rid of IU, and getting rid of Louisville simply isn’t an option.
The part I strongly disagree with are two things: Getting rid of IU, and that UK fans would behave the same way under similar circumstances. I think that you’re telling me that you don’t really want to get rid of IU despite your vote, so I guess we really don’t disagree about that.
I am confused about the whole third paragraph above. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at there. Kentucky is a small state with relatively few business interests, and yet millions come here every year for horse racing and other reasons. They certainly don’t come here for the weather, or for the beaches, or for the tourist attractions, of which we have relatively few.
Yet our tourism, given the size of the state and the lack of genuine attractions, isn’t bad. Kentucky tourism is an $11 billion/year industry, and is considered larger than that of Indiana and similar to Tennessee and Ohio.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I think we both misunderstood each other.
Two weeks ago I would have voted to drop IU. I wasn’t thinking clearly. Dropping IU would be a terrible decision. I agree that a nuetral site would be better for all fans, but we should definitely play.
I know we will never drop UL, but that is who I would like to see dropped. Cal obviously listens to me since Wiltjer has a shock collar on for every time he passes up a wide open 3. :)
The comment about people visiting was maybe misguided. I was merely pointing out that a greater majority of the country knows little more about Kentucky other than we don’t have all our teeth, rarely wear shoes, and if we want, can marry our cousins. While this thought is ignorant and ridiculous, it is a common stereotype.
I don’t think we need to add fuel to the fire by sending shots back at IU. I say it here, because most of the people here are reasonable. The majority of the people on KSR are not. :)
I also don’t think UK fans would go to that extreme. All I was saying is that anyone can be an idiot given the right circumstances. Do I think some UCONN fans might get cussed at and booed if they played UK at RUPP this year? Absolutely. Do I think people would poor drinks and push people down? I sure hope not. And I hope and think that if that did happen, fans around those people would see the situation made right.
I am relying on my memory, but...
I believe there are only a handful of states where first cousins CANNOT marry. Kentucky is one of them.
Slogan for the NCAA: If it ain't broke, break it.
I recall that law was passed
after extensive lobbying by an organization representing siblings in the state of Kentucky. They were afraid that marrying first cousins would cut into their matrimonial opportunities. :)
I am all for people expressing their opinions, as long as they back them up with facts.
Well.
Misunderstanding for sure. Sorry about the confusion.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
How much good HS talent comes from the state of NC every year?
Compared with Indiana, a state with 2 or 3 million fewer people even, not much. Wouldn’t UK rather be able to brag to an Indiana recruit about how they just beat IU?
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
.
John Wall was from North Carolina.
.
"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N.Y.
and Michael Jordan
and Dominique Wilkins, Danny Manning, ya-da-ya-da…
mostdiggity
by Thomas Mario Adams III on Dec 15, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I almost said don't count MJ
Danning Manning went to HS in KS and Wilkins was a military brat, which NC will always have a lot of. Glad that James Blackmon, Jr. will be a Hoosier though.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Soory, but no he did not
Danny Manning is a product of Walter Hines Page High School in Greensboro, NC and I saw him there on numerous occessions. NIque lived in Gastonia NC throughout HS. How about Brendon Haywood or Brad Daughtery?
mostdiggity
by Thomas Mario Adams III on Jan 9, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Ending the KY-IND game
I have wanted to end the game for a long time and the reason was Bobby Knight, and that was when he slapped Joe B. Hall on the head. We didn’t need to play a Univ. that let their coach do something like that to the other team’s coach. Knight and IU were a bully then and now I see Cream and IU falling into the same pattern it was with Knight. If Cream is a friend of Coach Cal I would hate to see him as an enemy. I say do away with IU and don’t play them any more because we don’t need them when we play a High Class program like North Carolina. Indiana has been 2nd teir when Knight was there and it looks like it’s not going to get better with Cream. DROP Indiana
I may be the only one on here to agree with you - but do so wholeheartedly
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
I agree 100% about going to a neutral site,
but as to dropping IU from the normal schedule, I try to take a longer view over the history of college basketball. Here’s my take:
There are six teams that I consider true Blue Bloods, and I believe we should have regular (perhaps even alternating year) series with each of them just because they are Blue Bloods. Here’s my list in order of precedence in the “family”:
Kentucky seriously, who else did you expect me to put first? We’ve all seen the list of records in which we are first and second. That plus my natural prejudice compel me to put us #1. Totally the capo di tutti capi.
-Tie for second among:
—UNC-great, classy program, long record, fanbase perhaps a little less passionate than ours, but . . .
-IU-long history (NC in ’40, ’53, etc), as we have seen, very passionate fanbase. Would be alone in #2 except for that certain coach they had who was a great coach, but to his players, fans, and the public in general, a miserable human being
-KU-second on win list, “home” of our tradition, etc. ’nuff said
-Duke-Very good record, although somewhat shorter than those above it on the list. Suffers somewhat from “single coach” syndrome
-UCLA-only among the Blue Bloods because of the number of NCAA Championships. Epitome of “single coach” syndrome, most incredible record going for a fairly short time in the big scope of history
Now, before you attack me for omitting your favorite team, there are a raft of schools just below this level, and they all have proud histories. I started to name some, but figured it would generate too much vitriol, so just take the above as my opinion and my justification as to why we should not dop IU. Let’s not let one occurrence lead us into something stupid. Drop Marist, etc, but keep the Blue Bloods.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
by oldcat'69 on Dec 15, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Damn hash-mark strikethrough!!!!
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
by oldcat'69 on Dec 15, 2011 6:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would put UNC alone at 2nd
Tie KU and IU. They’re pretty much equal, except that IU has always been in a stronger conference and had tougher schedules. If it wasn’t for IU, KU would have 2 more national titles since IU beat them for their first two. You almost have to include Duke, although they’re also a one-coach wonder and their fan base is tiny and lives primarily in Durham, Long Island, and New Jersey.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh wait
Somehow I skipped over them. Freudian slip, I’m sure.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Bump to comment 1
Honestly, i think the “problem” as a whole comes to that comment. And I agree with Glenn is get it to a neutral court if at all..
A few years ago I watched with the Ky Alumni fan base here (Orlando) as IU and Eric Gordon thrashed us badly (in the Billy G days). The IU fan base watched at the same bar and both had large groups. Afterward I stopped to congratulate some IU fans while leaving.
They were ecstatic and stayed classy until eventually the conversation snagged on a comment I made about the General. Nothing negative, just that I thought his leaving was finally proving to be good for IU long term.
That comment was met with derision by the whole table (who like me had a couple of beers during the game). A couple of guys became almost hostile in their arrogance as they began to demonize Kentucky basketball. It was truly a strange transformation I witnessed by this table of professionals who were also IU fans.
They refused to see my point that although he didn’t “cheat”, I would not have approved of his personal behavior had I been a fan of IU. Of course I had a number of examples and did so when pressed to enumerate them. I asked them how many of them would smack their own 18 year old son in the face (over a turnover) during a TV timeout for the world to see?…
By then, although the conversation had mostly been a positive experience I knew it was time to say “good luck” and "adios’. I left shaking my head about how our perceptions of our common world can be so radically and insanely different. All I could think of as I drove was that I was glad to be a Kentucky fan instead, despite the embarassing “ass whupin” we had just endured.
mostdiggity
by Thomas Mario Adams III on Dec 15, 2011 9:03 PM EST reply actions
Imagine yourself in their shoes
And someone mentioned that Adolph Rupp wouldn’t play black kids and was the first coach in NCAA history to have the death penalty put on him because during an investigation into points shaving it was discovered that his players had been paid. (I’m never a Bob Knight defender, but I will always stand up against hypocrisy.)
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Erroneous bandwagon generalization.
Black kid on HS team he coached in late 20s; also on ‘48 Olympic team. Stick to topics you’ve researched. On the way to work; more tonight if you wish.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
by oldcat'69 on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Opinions vary on these topics
Which was exactly my point.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 16, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Those are your typical IU fans - Knight carved into a marble statue and placed on campus is their ultimate fantasy
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
And as a UK fan living in Kansas, I assume
You are an expert on what the “typical IU fan” is.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 16, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I was exiled by the courts and told to leave the state of Kentucky
My punishment, as it worked out, was I had a choice of two states that would accept my forced relocation: Indiana or Kansas – I chose the hinderlands of Kansas using good decent common sense. The futher away from Bobby Knight as the courts would allow me to move seemed and proved to be the must better choice.
Even the fans out in Kansas hate the guy and have tried to get him removed from doing ESPN Big12 broadcasts to no avail. They started an online petition to force the issue: http://www.byebyebrentandbob.com/
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
by KansasUKCat on Dec 16, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I've only seen RMK a few times
As I’m typically not interested in the games he’s calling, or I’ve been unable to watch. The few times I have seen him, he appeared almost disinterested in the game. Brent Musberger…meh. I could take him or leave him. He’s better at football where the action is slower…and even then he’s a little off with his timing. Anyway, I’m sure Indiana would’ve treated you just fine during your court-mandated exile. I doubt Bob Knight even lives there anymore, and the other millions of Kentuckians who have moved there in the last 100 years or so seem to have done fine.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 16, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Series Won't End Now
I was among the 70% that voted Indiana off the island (since Cal said I must pick among the three). But now I think Crean is on the verge of restoring IU to the upper ranks again which should restore this long-standing rivalry. No matter what you or I think, the almighty dollar will dictate the series continuing, based on a huge 3.5M TV audience. After the vitriol spewed at UK in Bloomington, I would not attend a game there. Why not create a made for ESPN home/away series in Atlanta and Chicago?
In any event, when the Hoosiers come to Rupp next year, I will go out of my way to make them feel welcome and call-out any UK fans using filthy language or terrorizing our guests. We can show them what gracious, southern hospitality is all about.
Bor-ing
And guaranteed IU has more alumni in both Chicago and Atlanta.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not always nice
But I’m always fair.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 16, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Around here ...
… Nice is not optional.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Dec 16, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
That was me posting after a work holiday party, anyway. :)
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 16, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Haha!
I can relate.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Dec 17, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Read the USA Today article about the Playboy model
You couldn’t hear yourself think, much less scream for UK. There was a girl two rows behind me that said, ‘Sit your blond — down.’ I turned around and probably said some not so nice things myself back. But it was a good time, or at least it was until the end.
So, basically, it was all a “good time” until the fans rushed the court and she was accidentally knocked down by someone who picked her back up. It makes me wonder if any of this criticism would’ve happened had UK won, especially considering they are the most-penalized school in the SEC for rushing the field after a win.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 PM EST reply actions
Well ...
… there were other incidents as well, in her case, as well as a general atmosphere of misbehavior that she described.
But her account means almost nothing to me – it’s simply the account of another fan. Larry Vaught, as a veteran journalist, described her account as basically accurate about the atmosphere. That is the only indictment that is truly meaningful to me, and should be the one that is disturbing to you.
Fans in the stands say this kind of thing all the time, and I take it with a grain of salt. But when Vaught says it, that’s different. Your mileage may vary, but for my money, that’s the last word on the matter.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
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