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Kentucky Wildcats Basketball: Should UK Fans Worry About Marquis Teague?

Marquis Teague's inconsistent games have been the subject of much commentary recently, and today, John Calipari tried to dispel concerns about Teague's play with this comment:

Before we go onto examine this tweet in detail, Calipari is pointing out the major problem with what Teague has done so far this season -- turn the ball over.  Point guards are often measured in terms of assists and turnovers, but assists can be deceiving -- John Wall averaged 34% assists, 10.5% more than Brandon Knight.  But as we all know, they were two completely different players -- Knight more of a scorer and Wall more of a passer.  Because Knight took almost 100 more shots than Wall, and played more of a pick and roll game, he wasn't passing it as much.

Star-divide

So Coach Cal says that Rose, Evans, Wall and Knight all turned the ball over a lot in their first four games, but is he minimizing the impact of Teague's largess?  Let's look at the numbers:

Calipari PG's First Four Games
Player Turnovers TO% % Team TO
Rose 12 18.99% 18.18%
Evans 16 26.58% 28.57%
Wall 18 30.46% 23.38%
Knight 18 27.65% 38.30%
Teague 18 39.13% 30.50%

 

Okay, so this tells a different story than Calipari, although it may not look like it at first.  Cal is mostly right when he said all his guards turned the ball over a lot, except in the case of Derrick Rose, who notably did not.  But his last three point guards all have identical turnover numbers at this point in their careers.  So is that the end of the story?

Well, not quite.  Take a look at the TO% for Teague versus the other players.  What this shows is that almost 40% of Teague's personal possessions end in a turnover.  Teagues numbers are so high because all the other point guards shot the ball more, ending their possessions with either a field goal attempt or a free throw attempt.  Teague shoots far less than any of the others, so as a result, registers fewer possessions, making a similar number of turnovers a much higher TO%.

But that's not quite the end of it.  Another useful measure is the number of turnovers by a given player as a percentage of the team's total.  I look at this stat because very often, a point guard will be attributed one or more turnovers that really aren't his fault.  That can't really be measured directly, but you can get an idea indirectly by looking at the point guard's turnovers as a percentage of the team total.  A high figure indicates that the point guard is more likely the problem, and a lower number suggests that his teammates might be part of the problem.

This measure suggests that Teague is maybe not the only problem on this team, and that perhaps he's taking the blame for some of his teammate's faux pas.  This number tends to compensate for the comparatively low number of shots that Teague takes, and you can see that although it is high, it is not out of the realm of reality.  I probably should have adjusted this final stat for pace, but I think that it is okay as it is in relative terms.

The bottom line -- Most of Calipari's point guards have tended to have a lot of turnovers at this point (with the notable exception of Rose, who's numbers are actually quite good for a point guard at any time).  Teagues are maybe a little more problematic because of the way he plays, but it seems likely some of that is on his teammates, too.

So I'm inclined to think that things will be fine as soon as Teague learns to make the easy pass.  All Cal's prior point guards did, and there is no reason to believe that Teague can't make that adjustment as well.

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Sign me up for supporting your position, jc.

Geez, it’s four games. Four games ago, he was a high school player better than (almost) anyone else on the court. I’m with you, man. Let’s wait till partway through the conference schedule. The kid has things you can’t coach. Let Cal give him the skills that can be coached.

At this point, I’m a lot more worried about the team’s FT percentage.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."

by oldcat'69 on Nov 22, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Worry of the week.

This week Teague’s turnovers. Next week who knows. There are three certainties in this life, death, taxes and UK fans fretting over something that they fear will cost the team a loss in the future.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

mountain out of a molehill at this point

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Nov 22, 2011 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

Sill to worry about Teague at this point...

I am thinking that people that are worrying at this point are a lil’ over the top. He’s a freshman…he will be fine. Will he be as good as the previous 4 point guards? Maybe not…but I think he will be fine and with the talent on this team…he don’t need to be the star.

by Kelkat66 on Nov 22, 2011 3:47 PM EST reply actions  

Also consider...

Knight played 31.75 minutes per game his first 4 games, Wall 36.25. Teague has only been playing 28.75 minutes per game because Lamb has been playing point when he’s out of control.

Their stats will be slightly inflated over his, especially Wall due to the large MPG differential. Of course, at his rate if he played either of their MPG his turnover total would also be higher.

by Clint Phelps on Nov 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

I meant to add on the last part

that their stats as far as points and assists etc will be higher as well. You have to figure all of that into the comparison. Either way I’m still not worried at this point. When the kid plays in control he’s brilliant to watch.

by Clint Phelps on Nov 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why the percentages ...

… matter more than the raw numbers.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

more worried about attitude

I don’t ever remember seeing Knight or Wall argue with the coach when they got pulled out of a game. Right now Teague is playing for himself, he needs to learn to play for the team.

by MNBlue on Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

In defense of Teague ...

… Calipari later explained that he was right.

He was told to run a “loop” play in the zone offense, but Calipari had not taught them that. What he had taught them was a “loop” play for transition offense. When he tried that, he made a turnover, and Calipari pulled him. Teague was understandably upset, because he thought he had done what he had been asked, but in fact, the coach had failed to communicate correctly with him.

That incident was Cal’s fault, not Teague’s, and he can be forgiven for being exasperated.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

good explanation

hope you’re right, just don’t want us to have attitude problems. Saw an internet article that said, “this year, the only team that can stop Kentucky is Kentucky”, meaning if we can get the gears to mesh, we’ll be unbeatable. IF they mesh.

by MNBlue on Nov 22, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Take it with a grain of salt.

There is no real reason to believe there are any attitude problems of a nature that will affect the team.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Calipari

is the master of mesh.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the fact that Cal

was big enough to take the blame. Of course, I also like it when parents admit to their kids that they (the parents) made a mistake. Color me soft.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."

by oldcat'69 on Nov 22, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Oldcat,

coming in town to any games this year? I lucked out and got season tickets, maybe we could meet again?

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know yet, wineman,

but if we score some, I’ll sure give you a call. Meeting you and a2 was great fun. Maybe we could expand the group next time with dinner somewhere, that’s assuming that there are any other UK fans/ASOB members there ;-))

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."

by oldcat'69 on Nov 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Cheapside downtown would be a

good place. Near the arena and good food. I hope you can come up with some tickets. My accountant informed me that I could use my tickets for business entertainment and he said, for example, you could take your accountant to the UNC game and write it off. :))

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahahahaha

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Nov 22, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That was my response.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Great fun!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Nov 22, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Not worried about Teague at all

He’ll be fine. It is interesting to see how he compares with the last 4 PG’s though – very interesting. Competition might also be a factor, but observationally it seems like most of Teague’s TOs have been self-inflicted rather than by opponent action.

1/x doesn't die, it just fades away.

by JLeverenz on Nov 22, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

I would agree with that.

Indeed, most of them seem to be exactly similar to Brandon Knight’s turnovers early — trying to make the amazing happen rather than just a good basketball play.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And much like Wall and Bledsoe

when they dribbled into trouble and had the ball stripped.

by jdogblue on Nov 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is really worried about Teague

We’ll wring our hands during the games as he turns the ball over. May even mutter under our breaths, may even yell a bit. That’s ball. Cal seems to do awfully good with these uber-talented kids. Getting their buy-in and then getting them to apply it, it just won’t happen overnight.

by sweasyf on Nov 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

statistics, smatistics

Cal has had an unbelievable run with his point guards. The likelihood that this will continue indefinitely is zero percent. Will Teague be the next Derrick Rose? Almost certainly not. What we should be hoping for is that he develops into a serviceable point guard who can compliment the superb talent surrounding him.

by chicagoblues on Nov 22, 2011 4:34 PM EST reply actions  

One other thing I just noticed going over some stats

Marquis doesn’t shoot much, but he picks his spots VERY WELL. 4 of 6 from behind the line for a .667 percentage. It isn’t much in volume, but pretty good start shooting, which implies pretty good decision making on taking the shoots.

by sweasyf on Nov 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST reply actions  

He is a pass-first point guard.

That’s how he plays, and that type of player typically takes high-percentage shots.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Teague will be fine

Cal has the luxury of having Lamb as a serviceable backup at point. Last year, Lamb was not yet a viable PG option to Knight at this point. Bledsoe was a backup option to Wall, but Cal rarely used it unless Wall had foul trouble. Being able to sit Teague gives the impression to fans that there is more of a problem.

by jdogblue on Nov 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST reply actions  

Considerably Faster Pace

Contributes to TO’s (Teague and others). More than a few have commented here about how entertaining it is that Cats push the ball at every opportunity, well you can’t have that without an increase in mishaps.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

by Wild Weasel on Nov 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST reply actions  

The Rose team played at a similar pace.

As did Evans and Wall.

A faster pace can be a factor, but usually, it means you are playing too fast.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I worry about my kids...because I care about them.

And while it is not the same thing, I also care about my Kentucky Wildcats. So sure – I worry a little bit about whether players are going to develop and such. I think Teague will be fine – great even – but sure there is a little worry until he gets there. It’s only natural. The answer is “yes” I should worry because “yes” I do care. But that is just how I feel about it. My rational, non-feeling self says he will be awesome in time. I am sure many of you are much less sensitive than I.

Kentucky Basketball - The Reason for Living

by GriffinRC on Nov 22, 2011 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

Heh.

I like it. Well said.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 22, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Breakdown by half

Going by the “Play by Play” results, the overwhelming majority of Teague’s turnovers are happening in the first half:

Kansas: 6 first, 0 second
Penn State: 3 first / 1 (boxscore says he only had 3 total but 4 are listed, though one was on a defensive rebound so not sure)
ODU: 5 first / 1 second
Marist: No play by play listed

So 14 turnovers in the first half, 2 in the second for those three games. Not sure about the minutes differential between the two halves but to me this just further points out that he is a freshman, going up against better coaches and more experienced players then he is accustomed to and that he’ll be fine. Also whatever Calipari is saying at halftime to settle him down and help him against the opposing difference is working.

by Lewke on Nov 23, 2011 8:59 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I think Cal is primarily telling him to slow down.

Teague’s tendency is to try to go very fast, and that trips up most college point guards, even the fastest of them all, John Wall.

Teague just needs to learn to value the ball, and to value the ball, you have to slow down a little and make the easy pass or play. That is so hard for these AAU guys to learn, because they could get away with making spectacular plays in AAU, and possessions in that setup aren’t as valuable as they are in college. Nobody but North Carolina is going to try to run with Kentucky.

Teague will figure this out pretty soon. He’s probably harder on himself than Calipari is on him.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 23, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for dispelling the "kack of lunacy" regarding M. Teague.

 Glenn, you nailed it first when you explained that other point guards simply shoot the ball rather than dishing, as does Mr. T. Anyone who follows sports ought to know that he is a RARE pass-first, shoot second point guard in a world that overpays for buckets made, and vastly underestimates buckets created/delivered/gifted and offered to friends and teamates.
NO, and NO my good KY fans, at the end of season this young man will be worshiped/glorified/praised/ and identified as what KENTUCKY players are all about.

That unselfish desire to win without music videos dancers hanging on their pants legs as they strut to the NBA stage wearing a Kentucky hat {until the big money rewards his efforts in greenish pecuniary trophies which will be well deserved).

FORGET IT. HE’LL BE ONE OF KENTUCKY’S BEST EVER pt GUARDS.

mostdiggity

by Thomas Mario Adams III on Nov 24, 2011 1:48 AM EST reply actions  

I hope so.

And I am confident he’ll be very good, possibly even among the very best.

But that assessment is based purely on potential, not so much on performance so far, although I really liked this most recent effort.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Nov 25, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Tru Dat

Yet there are a number of point guards who took some time to “learn” the college game and then exploded with exponential understanding and performance, as they were made aware of certain aspects that the college position exposes to them in limited spurts.

Brandon was a good example, even Wall, but especially guys like John Shiver, Dickie Beal, and Wayne Turner. They went from “good” to whatever superlative one wants to enter.

That said, there is NO good reason to worry over Teague except for his penchant to penetrate with out locating the necessary partner (Hell, we’re all guilty of that from time to time). Fortunately for him he has an uncanny ability to turn busted drives into average looking bristling strings.

mostdiggity

by Thomas Mario Adams III on Nov 25, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

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