Kentucky Wildats Basketball: Can John Calipari Reach the Hall of Fame Without A Title?
The question of John Calipari's future status as a Naismith Hall of Famer is starting to pop up around the Internet lately, and one article by Ron Chimelis of The Republican was the subject of an article by Eric Lindsey at CoachCal.com, which served to bring it to my attention.
A fairly common meme among Calipari detractors, notwithstanding the NCAA Committee on Infractions incidents which appear on his résumé, is his lack of a national title. Why that would be is anybody's guess, because an NCAA Tournament title is absent from the records of a significant minority of Hall of Fame coaches, including such worthies as Eddie Sutton, Lou Carnesecca, Norm Stewart, and Pete Carril among many others. So clearly, lack of an NCAA Tournament championship isn't a deal-breaker, although it certainly could be said to be a hindrance, and getting into the HOF is much easier with one than without.
It seems fairly unlikely that Calipari is overly concerned about his legacy at this particular point, and for a fact, he is still a couple of years away from even being eligible for consideration to the Hall of Fame (25 years as a coach is the minimum). Under "normal" circumstances, given his win percentage and success at every school he's coach at, Calipari's eventual induction into the HOF would seem to be a foregone conclusion.
But there is another impediment to Calipari's selection to coaching's highest honor -- controversy. Despite the fact that he was exonerated by the NCAA for Marcus Camby's violations at UMass and not blamed for Derrick Rose's alleged academic fraud at Memphis, both those incidents weigh heavily in the public opinion, rightly or wrongly. They give the selection committee a reason not to pick Calipari. Added to his lack of an NCAA title, the committee has two excuses to overlook Coach Cal when he does become eligible.
With that said, it didn't stop them from picking Eddie Sutton, who presided over one of the worst scandals in the history of college basketball at Kentucky, a scandal for which the NCAA named him as blameworthy. Notably, Sutton also did not manage a national championship, so it seems likely that we can conclude that a pristine NCAA compliance record and NCAA Tournament title are not prerequisites for the honor, taken together or separately.
Jim Boeheim of the Syracuse Orangemen has also been inducted into the HOF despite an NCAA problem which garnered "should have known" blame from the NCAA and banned the Orangemen from the 1993 NCAA tournament, a blemish that is virtually never mentioned in connection with Boeheim in the national media.
With that said, Jerry Tarkanian, who has had a stellar statistical career, but one plagued with numerous run-ins with the NCAA for which he was notably found blameworthy, does have an NCAA title and four Final Fours. Complicating this was the fact that Tarkanian successfully sued the NCAA for violating his right to due process, a case in which he ultimately prevailed, forcing the NCAA to make changes to the enforcement process. Tarkanian retired in 2002, and he remains a HOF outsider despite his unquestionably deserving record.
Tarkainian seems to be something of a public relations problem for the selection committee, as many in the media and without consider him a cheater and unworthy of the honor. This is also true, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent, of John Calipari. Unlike Boeheim and to a lesser degree, Eddie Sutton, the national media never fail to mention Calipari's NCAA run-ins when talking about his record, much more in the mold of Tarkanian than Sutton or Boeheim.
As long as that continues, it is this writer's considered opinion that unless Calipari unleashes a fusillade of NCAA Tournament championships over the next several years (which is certainly possible), he will need to amass 800 wins in order to get consideration from the HOF selection committee, at least until a historical perspective replaces the current narrative. At 800+ wins (assuming no further NCAA problems), even the narrative and the lack of an NCAA Tournament title could not keep him out for an appreciable length of time.
To be fair, this discussion is surely premature. Calipari, at only 52 years old, could potentially coach for 25 more years at least, although he has insisted that this will not be his career path. But even if he coaches for only 8 more years at Kentucky, Calipari could easily eclipse 700 wins and multiple national titles. That ought to be enough, eventually.
The question is, when is "eventually?"
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I feel like, at this point in time,
Any discussion of how Calipari is going to be remembered is going to center around him winning at least one national championship. To date, one could easily make the argument that he’s underperformed given the talent-levels he fills his teams with. Let’s be honest: if he continues his level of recruiting for the next eight years but doesn’t win a national championship, with Kentucky fans consider him a successful coach?
Which isn’t to say he can’t get into the Hall of Fame without one. There’s plenty of people who get put in gold that I never want to see there.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
I agree.
;-)
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
It won't be easy since Cal is one of the most polarizing coaches in college sports
As things stand, I think he’d need at least two national championships to get voted in. Outside of Kentucky he doesn’t get much love and it would take an awful lot to change that sentiment.
How is the voting done?
I could look it up, but I’m lazy. If it’s by media members then I think Cal has problems because very few like to moralize the way media HOF voters do. If it’s by peers (ie other coaches) then I think he stands a better chance of not needing an overwhelming resume because even if a lot of coaches don’t like him, I don’t think it will affect voting quite as much.
1/x doesn't die, it just fades away.
The committees are anonymous.
This has been often criticized, but never changed.
There is a fairly complicated screening process. You can read about it here.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The worst of all worlds then
In that case, I’d say Cal has a tough road to get in. Not that he really cares, judging by his various public comments over the years.
1/x doesn't die, it just fades away.
Title=Slam Dunk
No title=most likely.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Several UK Titles for Cal is the trick.
In my opinion. If Cal will give us 5 NCAAT titles I will support him for the Hall of Fame. Any other discussion is moot as far as I am concerned, until such time that Cal actually announces his retirement.
Kentucky Basketball - The Reason for Living
What's retirement got to do with it?
Lots of current coaches are HOF’rs.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well, maybe not "lots," but several, anyway.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
OK.
We bring coaches to Kentucky to win championships, not win popularity contests. So the HOF stuff is just not a big deal to me. Maybe it is a big deal to Cal (certainly it wopuld be an honor) but it really doesn’t mean so much. I prefer having the championship Tubby won versus having no championship and him getting into the HOF.
Kentucky Basketball - The Reason for Living
I hear you.
It doesn’t really mean a thing to me personally. Calipari might care, but I don’t.
I just thought, and still do think, it was worth talking about. It’s in the news, and it deserves discussion for no other reason that for almost any other coach with a record like this, it would be a foregone conclusion.
I don’t think it is with Coach Cal.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
He is still relatively young and it will take time to distance the negative PR.
I still say 5 championships would help and I’m not backing down on that! I did not realize that coaches were being hauled inot the HOF in the middle of their careers. Doesn’t make sense in most cases. I wonder what’s the point?
Kentucky Basketball - The Reason for Living
Hopefully this will be a moot question in about 4 months...
but I would think the answer could be “Yes.”
Notable inductees:
- Charles H. “Chuck” Taylor. (Yes…. that ‘Chuck Taylor’)
- Meadowlark Lemon
- Dick Vitale
I played in more than one pair of “All Star”s myself, loved the Globetrotters (I remember really liking the bald one) and think Vitale’s enthusiasm is absolutely good for the college game… so I like all of these (somewhat random) choices…
They also like inducting people who were members of various rules committees. And a bunch of other administrator types.
Don’t know if that is very good news for our favorite coach.
.
"Man I don't want to talk about guys (Moss) who left us, you know. Why would I you know. We talk about Randall probably a little too much. He left us also."
Yes, yes, yes!
It was Curly…
I guess I don’t understand the criteria for selecting Lemon, but not Curly. Did Lemon average more points for the Globetrotters? I am assuming Curly had more assists.
Also, how can you induct the Chuck Taylor “All-Stars” and leave out the Air Jordans?
Or include Olympic basketball teams, but not recognize the Oregon cheerleading team for its contribution to the sport?
I guess I don’t understand this group at all- or what criteria they are using. So I don’t know how much of a difference the actual championships really are.
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"Man I don't want to talk about guys (Moss) who left us, you know. Why would I you know. We talk about Randall probably a little too much. He left us also."
The Wiki link above
in Glenn’s post describes the election process. But it is far from transparent how and why some are selected and others are not. In this day and age, I’m surprised that an outcry has not arisen over the lack of transparency.
Yeah, I know....
… that’s the only way I found out who has been inducted. I had no clue otherwise.
Plus, I am just goofing around with my faux outrage about Curly, the Air Jordans and Oregon cheerleaders being excluded… :-)
On a more serious note: yeah, not sure “Why so secretive?”
.
"Man I don't want to talk about guys (Moss) who left us, you know. Why would I you know. We talk about Randall probably a little too much. He left us also."
You guys have proved my point above to an even better degree than I ever could have by myself.
Kentucky Basketball - The Reason for Living
Globetrotters
Way back in the day, the Trotters played serious basketball against topnotch college and AAU teams. Meadowlark Lemon held his own. He was a an excellent player in his own right, notwithstanding the tomfoolery of the later Globetrotter efforts.
by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 23, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Recruiting Players Like Julius Randle
Can’t hurt. BluegrassHoops reports on Calipari and Antigua visiting Randle and Harrison twins in TX. This after seeing Nerlens Noel in NH. BTW, Anthony Bennett plays in Rupp Friday.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
What an odd conversation.
First, there is no controversy. No true controversy anyway. Misapprehension, to be sure, by those who are not well informed or don’t want to be. But let’s not draw an equivalence between what Glenn calls public opinion (the conspiracy-minded innuendo of anonymous fans and a few sportswriters who appear to have an economic self-interest in raking muck) and the considered opinion of those who understand not just the superficial facts but the details. I love Glenn for his open-mindedness, but to say the Camby and Rose incidents weigh heavily in the public opinion “rightly or wrongly” is spineless. Let’s be clear: it’s wrongly. Stand up and call it what it is. Don’t dignify the ignorant or the hateful by pretending their views might well have merit.
Second, and for want of a better expression, so what? Until we know more about who actually does the voting, it’s pointless to speculate. I don’t think Louisville fans, Memphis fans and Rick Bozich comprise these committees. I would think the committees are more knowledgeable and reasonable than the common fan, and so I believe much of our present hand-wringing about public opinion is misplaced. Here again, it is a mistake to draw an equivalence between Tark, who was found to be blameworthy, and Calipari, who was found blameless or not blamed in the least. We’ve got to stop letting our poor self-image get in the way.
Public opinion
Centers mostly around the fact that Calipari has served over two teams that have had to vacate their best seasons in program history. You can whine about how people interpret this all you want to, but that’s as simple as it gets, and it’s not a Beauty Mark for any coach.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
And that Calipari left right before scandals surfaced.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
"Spineless?"
Well, “spineless” is a little offensive and patently unfair. It isn’t spineless at all to understand that even though the facts clearly point to no involvement from Calipari, it is rational to be concerned about the fact that these things happened on his watch.
In America, we are used to imputing responsibility to leaders, even those who show a demonstrated lack of direct culpability. Even though I don’t generally agree this principle should be applied de rugeur, it isn’t “spineless” to acknowledge its rationality if it is fairly conceived.
It is fair and reasonable to hold a negative view of Calipari for being at the head of two programs sanctioned by the NCAA, but unfair to do so without honestly considering all the evidence, which frankly, seems to be the “rationale” of the majority of his detractors.
Those that do and are still troubled by his past are to be commended, and even if I don’t agree with their ultimate conclusion, I will defend it as fair and honestly wrought.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
There's also some honest questions
About discipline issues for Calipari, though most of those came while he’s at Memphis and he’s, generally — and as much as can be expected of a coach — kept players in line and not been given issues to see if he waffles on punishments at Kentucky. (Which is a good thing, mind you). The #1 reason Tennessee fans don’t like him is because of: 1) comments made about Tennessee’s program while he was at Memphis, and 2) because of numerous instances of letting his players off really easy after incidents, especially when big-games loomed.
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Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
I have no problem with Tennessee fans disliking Calipari.
The coach of a former rival is always a good reason to dislike somebody, no matter where he turns up. I have never objected to that reasoning, nor will I ever.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Reason #2 = The Fulmer Rule-
For years, UT football players who got in trouble were “punished” by having to sit out games… until UT played Florida…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
You will never know who does the voting.
It is done in secret, as I mentioned above.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Per your statement
…unless Calipari unleashes a fusillade of NCAA Tournament championships…
I say bring on that fusillade!
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
by kywineman on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Indeed.
And quite frankly, I expect him to do so.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well, certainly too early, but not by that much.
He has suggested a deadline for his continued career, and that seems much nearer than 20 years hence. He will be eligible for consideration in three more years, by my reckoning.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
First discussion for Hall of Fame
for Cats fans should be Joe B. Hall. I know he only was head coach for 13 years, but in that term he went to three Final Fours and won one championship.
That aside, I suppose my bias would be that far too many are in the Hall of Fame that are not necessarily worthy. I might set a requirement that at least two titles are necessary.
Hmmm.
Joe would have the lowest win total of any coach in the Hall of Fame that I am aware of.
I’m going out on a limb here and say he’s not terribly likely to be inducted.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
When UK surpasses UCLA for the most Championships by one school then Cal will have a lock on the HOF
I expect within ten years UK will get number twelve to hang from the rafters of Rupp or the new Rupp-Cal state of the art facility. Then people will have no choice whatsoever to deny Cal his honor.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Yeah, because then he would have five at least.
And the only other coach so far to have that many or more is Wooden.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I'll go out on another limb and say ...
… that if Calipari wins as many as two, he’s a mortal lock sooner rather than later. Three, and it will be sooner still.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
And to finish my disjointed thought ...
… I don’t think the HOF will keep him out unless he is lacking something, like a championship or 700 wins. A championship by itself is not enough — it takes probably 500 wins to go with that.
A controversial guy like Cal could use more of both, and I think he’ll get both.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
5 In The Next 10 Years?
I doubt that.
2 or 3 would be fine with me.
by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 23, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
NC Would Cinch It
But he can surely get into HOF even if he doesn’t win NC(s) at UK.
He wins 77% of his games overall (72% of NCAA games) and 85% at UK. Those are HOF % over a long career.
He took 3 teams to FF. Not many have done that.
by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 23, 2011 10:38 AM EST reply actions
His recruiting and winning percentage...
Should be enough to get him in, with or without a Title… But, I think he will get a least one Title… Hopefully, this year… GO CATS!
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"

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