Terrence Jones: Historically Versatile
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To read Glenn's "Postmortem" of UK's victory over Auburn, scroll down.
When Kentucky forward Terrence Jones arrived in Lexington this summer from Oregon, he brought with him a reputation which designated him a player, who despite his 6-8 frame, loved to float out to the perimeter and drop 20-footers on the opposition. How unusual is that mindset for a high school player? It's not the mindset that is so unusual (lots of big men pine to play the perimeter), but rather, the fact that Jones actually played the perimeter more than the interior; that is what makes his basketball background so vastly different than the average 6-8 high school forward. For most 6-8 high school ballers are limited to the painted areas via threat of pine time. The tall timber are supposed to grab rebounds, pile up the points on put-backs, and defend the opponents tallest player.
But, every so often, a big man is blessed with the skills most often looked for in a shooting guard -- Good handles, a strong shooting eye, and the ability to create ones own shot. Enter Terrence Jones. Enter a Kentucky forward with the versatility to play a variety of positions.
Versatility Denied?
After Kentucky's 78-54 thrashing of Auburn on Tuesday night, Wildcat coach John Calipari voiced his concern over the thought of Jones falling in love with the long-ball -- Calipari had this to say about Jones' four made three-point shots against Auburn, "But to be honest with you, I'm sitting on the bench saying, 'We're not winning with him shooting 3's. He may shoot one, two or three, but that's not why we win. We'll win because he'll rebound and score around the goal, he'll score on drives, stick-backs." -- But there is no escaping how valuable a big man, who can shoot with accuracy out to 18-20 feet, is to any basketball team. Not only is the player scoring in a variety of ways, but the shooter, in this case Jones, brings a big defender out away from the basket, giving room for UK center Josh Harrellson to work. If Jones' defender opts to stay "home," he is certainly capable of taking and making the wide open look, as he did Tuesday, going 4-5 from beyond the arc against the Tigers.
The 12 points Jones scored from made three-pointers on Tuesday were part of a new Kentucky freshman scoring record the talented forward set with his 35 points versus Auburn, breaking teammate Doron Lamb's mark of 32 set against Winthrop only a few weeks ago. Think about that ... 35 points from a freshman!
Brought to my mind as I watched Jones dominate a clearly inferior opponent, is how good Jones is, only 16 games into his college career. Sure, he has had trouble with consistency, and at times he begins games as if he's back home in Oregon playing against high school competition (but, that isn't why he did not start Tuesday's tilt; he was sick Monday and missed practice, so Cal brought him off the bench). As he matures, though, and accepts the coaching of Calipari and staff, those are issues which should fall by the wayside.
But, just how good is Jones when compared to other versatile UK forwards? Does Jones' freshman season thus far measure-up against the likes of Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Chris Mills, and Tayshaun Prince through their first 16 games as Wildcats?
Well, we're going to find out. We're going to pit Jones' numbers, 16 games into his freshman season, with the corresponding statistics in the careers of some of the most productive, versatile Kentucky forwards over the last 25 years (all the players chosen for this comparison played at UK after the inception of the three-point shot in the 1986-87 season).
Comparing Freshman Forwards with Versatility
Terrence Jones has played 475 minutes through 16 games, or 29.7 minutes per game. He has scored 299 points (18.7 points per game), grabbed 146 rebounds (9.1 rebounds per game), and dished out 27 assists (1.7 assists per game). Jones is making 47.7% of his overall shots (106-222), 37.2% of his three-point shots (16-43), and 50.3% of his two-point tries (90-179).
To get a truer understanding of how Jones has performed when compared to the players below; this is his per minute played numbers -- .629 points per minute played: .307 rebounds per minute played: .034 three-pointers made per minute played: .057 assists per minute played.
Chris Mills ('88-'89) -- Mills played 547 minutes through his first 16 games, or 34.2 minutes per game. He scored 221 points (13.8 points per game), corralled 134 rebounds (8.4 rebounds per game), and distributed 48 assists (3.0 assists per game). Mills made 49.2% of his overall shots (89-181), 29.6% of his three-point shots (8-27), and 52.6% of his two-point tries (81-154).
Per minute played numbers -- .404 points per minute played: .245 rebounds per minute played: .015 three-pointers made per minute played: .088 assists per minute played.
Jamal Mashburn ('90-'91) -- Monster Mash played 387 minutes through his first 16 games, or 24.2 minutes per game. Mashburn scored 206 points (12.9 points per game), grabbed 114 rebounds (7.1 rebounds per game), and dished-out 24 assists (1.5 assists per game). He made 46.7% of his overall shots (78-167), 26.2% of his three-point shots (11-42), and 53.6% of his two-point attempts (67-125).
Per minute played numbers -- .532 points per minute played: .295 rebounds per minute played: .028 three-pointers made per minute played: .062 assists per minute played.
Antoine Walker ('94-'95) -- Walker played 239 minutes through his first 16 games, or 14.9 minutes per game. 'Toine scored 118 points (7.4 points per game), snagged 61 rebounds (3.8 rebounds per game), and handed-out 25 assists (1.6 assists per game). He made 39.7% of his overall shots (46-116), 28.6% of his three-point shots (8-28), and 43.2% of his two-point tries (38-88).
Per minute played numbers -- .494 points per minute played: .255 rebounds per minute played: .033 three-pointers made per minute played: .105 assists per minute played.
Tayshaun Prince ('98-'99) -- Tay played 344 minutes through his first 16 games, or 21.5 minutes per game. He scored 102 points (6.4 points per game), hauled in 68 rebounds (4.3 rebounds per game), and gave-out 24 assists (1.5 assists per game). Prince made 43.0% of his overall shots (43-100), 27.8% of his three-point tries (15-54), and 60.9% of this two-point shots (28-46) -- Note: When Prince shot the ball, he took a three-pointer 54% of the time during this span of time, no other player being compared tops 30% of his shots being three-pointers.
Per minute played numbers -- .297 points per minute played: .198 rebounds per minute played: .044 three-pointers made per minute played: .070 assists per minute played.
And just for the fun of it, let's take a look at Jones' numbers compared to Patrick Patterson's entire junior year, when Patterson made himself versatile by becoming a long-range threat.
Patrick Patterson ('09-'10) -- PPat played 1,255 minutes for the season, or 33.0 minutes per game. He scored 544 points (14.3 points per game), snatched 283 rebounds (7.4 rebounds per game), and dished-out 36 assists (.95 assists per game). Patterson made 57.5% of his overall shots (215-374), 34.8% of his three-point attempts (24-69), and 62.6% of his two-point tries (191-305).
Per minute played numbers -- .433 points per minute played: .225 rebounds per minute played: .019 three-pointers made per minute played: .029 assists per minute played.
Although Jones dominates the scoring and rebounding per minute numbers, one has to take into account that Jones is heavily relied on to provide this team with points and rebounds, while most of the players listed above were not "The Man" on their respective teams, during their freshmen years.
But, even taking that into consideration, Jones' numbers are indeed impressive. His versatility as both a prominent figure in the paint and long-bomb threat, make him and his talents unique in the annals of Kentucky basketball. And a "unique" talent should always be appreciated, especially by fans of the Big Blue.
And one final thought -- I would like to take this time to offer my condolences to Wildcat Blue Nation founder Paul Jordan on the passing of his father. The thoughts and prayers of the Big Blue Nation are with Paul as he endures through this most difficult of times.
Thanks for reading and Go 'Cats!
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CALL ME OLD SCHOOL
I totally agree with – and was heartened to hear – Coach Cal make his statement about the role Jones needs to play for the team to win on a consistent basis. While the occasional outside shot is fine, for the most part I like seeing the bigs staying down around the basket. And, with all due respect to Auburn, success against them has to be put in the context that they’re not a competitive team.
I agree
Auburn is truly awful so it’s hard to judge what TJ did last night. But I agree he needs to be banging in the paint and not floating on the perimeter.
by maysvilleblue on Jan 12, 2011 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
You will likely make similar comments about Davis
Your opening remarks could probably be made about Anthony Davis, a 6-10 signee for next year. Davis began as a 6-2 guard and sprouted to 6-10 now (if one can believe high school measurements). From film I have watched, Davis also plays on the perimeter getting many of his shots from the outside. I don’t know if this is a trend for big men, but I suspect it is. People say, if you play AAU ball and want to touch it at all, you go to the perimeter to get it.
Davis
Is going to end up a 6’10 small forward in the NBA a la Austin daye formerly of gonzaga. He will need to bulk up but I don’t look to see him doing too much banging in the post.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jan 12, 2011 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Davis
He will be a very similar player to Jones, I think. Which in my view, is a very good thing.
Davis’ story is rather amazing, actually. I’m expecting great things from him.
I concur and our shot blocking stats may double next year
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
Great read Ken
I had no idea about these numbers. Quite impressive stats. Thanks. Maybe we should borrow one of my favorite names from Randall and change it to fit TJ. Superbasketballguy. :-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Jones is a beast, but...
a three point shot—no matter who is taking it—is always a lower percentage shot than a two point shot taken at or near the basket. Therefore, even if Jones manages to hit 40% of his threes, this would mean that, on the other 60% of his three point shots, we would not have our leading rebounder in a position to rebound the misses. I agree, therefore, with Cal’s assessment that, to beat the better teams, we need Jones to spend more time attacking the basket.
That said, the guy is a beast and, when fully engaged (and fully into the game) Jones is a blast to watch. I just don’t want him to fall too much in love with his outside shot when this team needs him more under the basket.
I always apply a 50% premium to 3 pt shooting percentages
Since a made basket counts 50% more than a made 2 pt. shot. Thus, a 40% 3pt FG% has the same effect as shooting 60% from 2 pt range. I don’t know if this is statistically a valid thing to do or not. I also believe, again without any analysis, that a missed 3pt shot is slightly more likely to lead to an offensive rebound than a missed 2pt attempt, giving the offense more chances to score overall.
All that aside, I don’t want TJ hoisting more than 3 or 4 of these a game, and I want to see him follow the shot—not fall back—to get those misses.
BC, that's exactly how you determine how efficient a scorer a player is
If a player makes 33% of his three-point tries, that’s equal to him making 50% of his two-point tries.
As to many of the comments about wanting Jones to stay in the paint – I certainly understand that thinking, but, I don’t think it ever hurts to have someone who can score in a variety of ways, and floating out and taking the occasional three has not hurt Jones’ rebounding numbers. Jones is outrebounding all of the players I’ve compared him to. Plus, it’s hard to complain about a guy getting 9.1 rpg. Cal just wants to make sure TJ doesn’t fall in love with the shot, ala R. Rhodes. Clearly, though, Jones has not done that.
Someone wrote, paraphrasing here – we already have enough three-point shooters … I disagree. A team can never have enough three-point shooters. Kind of like a baseball team having good pitchers … you can never have too many.
Hard to complain about his rebounding?
Then why do we hear Cal mention it after every game? Just sayin…
Coaches are never satisfied, you know that:)
And, not to knockback your hyperbole, but Cal does not complain about Jones’ rebounding every game.
Much of Cal's complaining about TJ's rebounding has to do with
his fundamentals. Jones oftentimes grabs boards with one hand instead of two, which drives coaches nuts.
by Ken Howlett on Jan 12, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Though I agree on that...
I’m specifically referencing things like these two examples:
“He should have his hands near every rebound.” – Jan 1
“…try to be the leading rebounder in the country, not just the SEC.” – Dec 22
I know much of it is coach-speak/hyperbole and motivation for TJ, but it’s been a running theme for Cal this year. I’m not complaining here, but being devil’s advocate for the “hard to complain” comment – if Cal thinks he could do better…
Gotcha, and I agree that Jones
can be a better player.
I really like his game though, regardless of his outside shooting. From what I can tell, he just needs to know that every game, every opponent is going to play their absolute hardest against UK. In other words, I think that sometimes he doesn’t match the oppositions intensity. But, when he does, he’ll really become a dangerous player.
Good discussion, though. I appreciate your point of view.
And being one person who said we had enough 3-pt shooters...
My point in this regard is that Knight, Lamb, Miller, and Liggins should be taking the 3s. Jones with a couple a game is fine, but the others shoot the 3-ball better and are more valuable on the outside than Jones. The value of Jones on the inside far exceeds any need for him to step outside and put up 3s. Last night is hard to complain about, given they were open looks and he hit them, but against a better team, that won’t happen.
Re: dsh
Lamb and Miller (both around 50%) are much better three-point shooters than Jones (37.2%), but Knight (38.8%) and Ligs (34.9%) are both comparable shooters.
And, yes, the better teams have given Jones the 3-pt shot: He’s taken a three against every opponent with the exception of Penn, and made threes against UConn, Notre Dame, and Gergia, all three pretty good teams.
I think it’s ironic that the entiirety of the BBN was cheering on PPat last year as he launched his threes, complimenting him on his hard work to improve his game, but with Jones many are hesitant to give him shooting 3’s their “okay.” It’s not as if JH can’t rebound, as Cousins did last year for PPat when he stepped out.
I realize we have more competent long-range shooters this year, but man, versatility is a killer to the opposition. That’s why we don’t hear Cal telling TJ to not take the shot.
Against all the other teams...
Jones shot 31% from 3. The stats indicate that against better teams, he is the 5th best option for the 3. Last night, Cal did in fact say he didn’t want TJ taking so many 3s.
Patterson didn’t need to create points in the paint for his team nearly as much as Jones does for this one. Lest we forget that Cousins was down there scoring at will. Who else is supposed to provide the offensive interior presence?
Couple of things
First of all, I think we just have differing philosophies regarding big men taking the long-ball. That’s part of being a sports fan on a blog.
Second, Jones has scored 180 points on the year taking 2-pt shots, and 32 points taking the three, so him stepping out from time to time certainly isn’t effecting UK’s paint points. As an aside: Some folks (not you) thought UK lost the GA game because of a lack of an inside presence by UK, when in fact, UK scored 38 points in the paint and UGA scored 28.
Some are acting as if all Jones does is jack-up threes. He’s taken 43 in 16 games, or 2.7 per game. Surely the leading rebounder in the SEC (JH) can handle the paint 2.7 times per game. Besides, UK has two big guys in Miller and Ligs who can supply help in the paint if needed.
Finally, Cal did not say last night (or any other night that I know of), that he didn’t want TJ taking “so many threes.” Most of what Cal said last night about Jones I’ve quoted in the piece above. But, if you’d like, I could post the entire quote.
And believe me, if Cal didn’t want TJ taking threes, Jones wouldn’t be taking threes. As I said somewhere on this thread, I think Cal doesn’t want TJ falling in love with the three-pointer. Something we can all agree with, I think.
by Ken Howlett on Jan 12, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I can agree with that.
To your fourth paragraph… No need to post the entire quote. I think we’ve simply interpreted Cal’s “fool’s gold” comment in different ways, Ken, biasing it towards our own philosophies.
With regard to your final paragraph, I found Cal’s discussion of crowd response with various players to be quite funny re: Jones taking 3s. See ~1:40 in this video, for those who haven’t heard it: Cal on Crowd Response
The good ones know
when to step out and shoot the three, and when they (and their team) are better off when playing near the rim. For some guys that can take a lot more college minutes to figure out.
The good thing is, I didn’t hear Cal say that TJ shouldn’t be shooting ANY threes. Cal’s notion of “one, two or three” attempts per game is just about right, maybe slightly low, in my mind. It’s enough to keep the defense honest, and it also lets Terrence know that he does have the green light as long as he doesn’t get crazy with it.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind him trying 4 or 5 a game….again, the key would be that he takes them at the right times based on score, momentum, etc. and that they are “good looks” rather than forced shots just for the sake of chucking the ball up there. I could definitely see some games down the line where the situation calls for TJ to take that many….though you would hope that Lamb and Knight would provide enough of a consistent outside threat that Jones isn’t absolutely compelled to stray too far.
Nice work Ken, especially the statistical compilation.
by wildcatwhisperer on Jan 12, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions
My concern is...
Jones will become a little too comfortable on the perimeter. He hasn’t really shown me that he likes to mix it up inside. Nothing wrong with shooting 3’s and if he has an open look by all means take it. I just think this team needs him more inside. No question though he is VERY talented.
by maysvilleblue on Jan 12, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
The game looked a lot better last night...
when Jones stopped standing on the 3-pt line and started asking for the ball in the paint. We’ve got plenty of 3-pt shooters, we need a guy who can shoot over the top of people and maybe get an offensive rebound. Harrellson can’t do it all by himself.
If I had a say, Jones would take 1 or 2 a game, no more. If he isn’t wide open taking them, his butt hits the bench until.
heh...that's weird. just noticed half my sentence missing...
i meant to say:
until he learns to stay near the paint.
I think this concern about Jones is
a slight over reaction. He actually showed a good balance last night against a team that was playing a lot of zone. He had wide open shots and took them. Nothing wrong with that. The best way to stop a zone is to shoot them to pieces.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I have no problem with him taking the wide open shots.
But against a better team, we’re not going to see him get open looks from 3, and we’re going to have to have a better inside-out game against the zone. Nearly half our shots were 3s last night. Against a better team or on a poor shooting night, we’d see WVU all over again.
Jones "seems" to be learning when to go outside and when not to.
What hurt the Cats last night, and made for jones record setting performance was that Josh Harrellson disappeared into the void at times. Now that may very well have been because of Auburn’s inside guys playing decent D, but I would hate to have to testify as to that in court.
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 12, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions
I agree, but...
It is at least possible that Josh disappeared, at least in part, because Jones did not spend as much time down low commanding a double team and freeing up Josh to make some easy, uncontested shots. Although I love Josh’s emergence this year as a real scoring threat, he is rarely going to beat his man one on one on the offensive end. To score effectively, Josh needs someone else, like Jones, to draw the defense away.
Just my two cents worth…
actually that was the underlying point to my post.....the two of them feed off of each other.....
when one is being hammered the other profits
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 12, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree with the Harrellson correlation...
Harrellson played poorly in the first half, then got back to his game in the second. Jones had 13 points in the first, 22 in the second.
Harrellson could have gotten more points, but they didn’t look for him under the basket quickly enough in Auburn’s zone during double teams on the drive/post up (similar to not finding Miller/ Knight/Lamb for the 3 several times).
On the other hand
If my memory is correct, Jones took a lot more three point shots in the second half, and Auburn pretty much played us even during that time period. While Josh might not have scored much in the first, the dual threat of Josh and Jones down low in the first half undeniably gave our real three point shooters a lot of open looks. My point being, I think the team as a whole plays better (and is harder to defend) when Jones plays closer to the basket. Reasonable minds, of course, can differ.
Oh, I dont want to see Terrence setting up outside.....that would be a major step backwards
for this team. But I went back and looke at the 3’s he took, and they were all virtually wide open. As long as those are the only threes he shoots, I have no problem with it. But both his AND Josh’s ability to hit 3’s should keep the paint more open. Harrellson’s biggest problem seemed last night that he was moving a step slow to get into the lane to get the boards he normally nails down. Jones in the middle makes that easier, that much is very true.
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 12, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Josh gave up
more minutes than usual to Vargas. I think that plus the zone D of Auburn were factors in his performance.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Cal got upset with JH early in the game
He just had a slow start, for whatever reason. These guys aren’t machines, sometimes they just start slow, as JH did last night. He didn’t block out on a rebound and his man go loose on him a few times, but he settled down nicely in the 2nd half.
But, I think wineman is right about the zone of AU adversely effecting Josh, especially in the 1st half.
no....he had an off night...pardon the pun
luckily we didnt need him as much
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 12, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Good headline,
“Off Knight but UK Still Wins”.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Josh is actually 50%, but apparently that's on a mere 4 attempts this year...
…still not a terrible idea that he would step out occasionally either…but again, to me it’s more about taking the good, available shots within the flow of the offense.
I’m sure Cal doesn’t draw up plays for Jorts to come off a double-pick and fire a three, but if a defense is obviously sagging, and he gets his feet set with a clean look, I do have some confidence that Josh could knock down a decent percentage.
But I truly understand the risk: you don’t want to shoot yourself out of a game like the tournament loss to West Virginia. It’s very tempting to get carried away with it, and that goes for every guy on the roster.
by wildcatwhisperer on Jan 12, 2011 12:00 PM EST reply actions
Step out
While it may be a good idea from time to time,I want JH in the paint. This team has an abundance of 3 pt shooters so I don’t see any need for JH to join them. What I want from him is 7-9 boards EVERY game. Any points he scores is gravy IMO.
by maysvilleblue on Jan 12, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
exactly....the THREAT of him doing it should keep the opponents D honest
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 12, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
And his dagger 3 against UL will be forever etched in my brain.
by maysvilleblue on Jan 12, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Greg
I got your mail. I can’t answer it. Computer problems. had to borrow this for a few minutes to check mail and ASoB. Thanks for the offer,sorry not able to help!
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
thats fine buddy....thanks anyway
I am now and forever shall be The Cat In The Hat....The Artist formerly known as ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Jan 13, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
TJ will be a small forward next year if no lock-out
And I have no problem with him taking the three as long as he keeps his mind straight and doesn’t keep hoisting them when he’s off. I’m sure the scouts were impressed by his shooting last evening.
Side note: Vargas hasn’t progressed one iota since the start of the season – man I’m very disappointed. I also don’t see any added muscle definition in his psyche. My biceps are bigger then his and I’m only 5’-9" and an old guy. Being he can’t jump or shoot I sincerly hope he works on his bulk up and arm and hand strength.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
I too am looking for improvement in Vargas, but not really seeing it.
There is something about him, though, that makes me think he’s going to be a contributor at some point. I only wish it was now, instead of possibly later.
Sometimes
it just clicks and goes from there. I think it is a confidence thing and he should quit reading the blogs.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I wish he would pay attention
Were we express the opinion of him getting in better shape and stronger. We need him to rebound aggressively and to do that he needs lots of conditioning. Get in the weight room and stay there Eloy….!
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
I am referring
to the bloggers who say he is worthless and should not be on this team. Idiots sitting at their computer desks who couldn’t hit a shot if they were the only ones on the court trashing a young man doesn’t help him in any way.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I want desparately to see something I like in Vargas
But every game, he disappoints me. He seems slow on everything he tries.
According to KSR
Matt Jones sat near several NBA scouts last night. They were critical of T. Jones’ inside offense thinking he won’t be able to score against NBA big men the way he does against college players. I was a little surprised to read this.
I can believe that - he is no Patterson doesn't have the body to bang inside
Against NBA power forwards or centers. He will be a small forward who can rebound on occasion and be relied on for his driving abilities, short and long range jumper and perimeter defensive skills – aka Tayshaun.
A man is nothing more than a summation of his scars!
shout out to Jenna and Matthew Mitchell on the announcement of expected August baby.
Maybe a UK men or ladies player in the pipeline. Congrats!
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