Kentucky Basketball: The Kanter Dilemma, And What It Means
As Ken mentioned in this post last night, the New York Times' Pete Thamel has reported that the Turkish team Kanter played with is claiming they paid more than $100,000 to Kanter and his family, and a "salary" of $6,500/month.
What we have to speculate on here is, "What does this mean for the Kentucky Wildcats?" As you would expect, many people in the sports world have taken an interest in this story and have opined on it, one of whom is Luke Winn from Sports Illustrated. Here is the crux of the biscuit, as Frank Zappa would say:
The NCAA is still reviewing Kanter's case, Kentucky is defending his status as an amateur, and the public has yet to see the financial documentation Fenerbahce says it gave to the NCAA. But if Fenerbahce's claims are legitimate, there's no chance Kanter will play at Kentucky. The key here isn't the $100-150K that Kanter allegedly received, since amateurs in the European system are allowed to receive necessary travel, lodging and food benefits from their clubs and still be eligible in the eyes of the NCAA. What matters is that Kanter, according to Karakas, was paid a salary for his time with Fenerbahce's senior club.
I think this is right. If Kanter indeed took a salary, any salary at all, that makes him a professional, period. It's one thing to have expenses paid, but it is entirely another to take a salary.
Winn goes on to scoff at Fenerbahce's claim of pure motives and trying to do the right thing. From the original Thamel article linked above, Fenerbahce's general manager, Nedim Karakas, made this rather extraordinary claim:
"I am sorry for telling this for Enes, but we cannot lie if someone asks the whole story, we cannot hide," Karakas said.
I don't believe Kanter or anyone else asked Mr. Karakas to lie. The fact is, Karakas has a vested interest in the NCAA turning down Kanter's appeal, to the tune of a six-figure transfer fee. If Kanter is admitted, Fenerbahce gets zero. Karakas is being as false as Marv Albert's brown locks in this comment, and unabashedly so.
Thamel's article goes on to describe how unhappy the leadership of Fenerbahce was about Kanter's decision. I think that's understandable, but before you start pointing the finger at them, recognize that Euro leagues as a whole are rooting against Kanter in this affair. If the NCAA makes an easy path to college for underage "club" players, it could cost them millions of dollars worth of defections to NCAA basketball.
Mike DeCourcy explains for Sporting News:
And in any debate about that issue, it should be hard to trust the word of the club.
The European clubs have obvious motivation to dissuade their best young players from coming here to play. For starters, if somebody’s playing in the NCAA Tournament, he can’t be playing in the Euroleague. Also, if a young player is under contract to a European club and is ready to try the NBA, the club almost certainly will receive a substantial buyout in return. A 19-year old who wants to leave Kentucky for the draft merely signs a paper declaring that intent. He is free to leave.
That's exactly right. The thing you have to notice here is that the Fenerbahce people failed to provide proof of their claims to Pete Thamel. The reason is fairly clear -- the proof they have very likely does not live up to the standards that they claim it does.
Indeed, DeCourcy goes on to tell us that FIBA rules do not permit teams to enter into contracts with players under 18 years of age, which would include Kanter. If they were paying him a salary, as they claim, I suspect it would be in violation of the rules of their oversight authority in spirit if not the letter. I'm not sure about that, though, but if is against the rules to sign them to a contract, it would seem to be suspect to pay them money described as a "salary." But FIBA's interests lie squarely with Fenerbahce, so I wouldn't expect any help from them on the matter.
The purpose of the Thamel article was clearly to create a public relations problem for Kanter, the NCAA and Kentucky. Evidently, Fenerbahce hopes that by doing so, the NCAA will find enough "complexity" in the matter to declare Kanter a professional. It may or may not work, but keep in mind that the NCAA is an inherently conservative organization, and this rule change was a real departure for them. They may decide that it is wisdom to err on the conservative side of amateurism (a view that I suspect few NCAA coaches or presidents would oppose, particularly when the subject is a Kentucky player), and that hope is clearly revealed in Karakas' disingenuous comments.
What does this mean for Kentucky? Well, obviously it would hurt the team's chances, since Kanter was to be the workhorse in the inside game. If Kanter becomes disqualified by the NCAA, Kentucky will have to rely on Josh Harrellson and Eloy Vargas, both finesse rather than power players like Kanter, to take care of the work inside.
There is no doubt that Kanter's loss would leave Kentucky's team in a much worse roster condition this year, not to mention incredibly thin in the front court. Overall, it would leave the 'Cats with only 10 players on the team, one of them a walk-on guard who was granted a likely one-year deal. But somehow, they will find a way -- the Wildcats always do -- to be as good as they can be.
For those of you who want to harshly criticize Thamel, don't bother. We should not be taking shots at a guy who is trying to earn a living, and reporting on Kentucky, particularly negative reporting, is good for business. His article contained all the relevant facts necessary for a person to recognize the strong conflict of interest that Karakas and Fenerbahce have in their claims of altruistic motivations, and clearly points out the lack of proof provided.
In the end, we'll just have to hope for the best. In any case, this year's Kentucky team was not shaping up to be championship-caliber on paper anyway, but if the Kanter matter goes ill for UK, the road will become significantly more difficult to the more minor milestones, like the SEC championship and a high national ranking.
In the end, if the worst happens, that's just how life goes sometimes. We'll still have a good team, and you can never tell if the loss of a particular player can be a major blow, or addition by subtraction. Sometimes, it's just not obvious and can't be predicted.
But the smart money would be betting against us.
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One problem here
For those of you who want to harshly criticize Thamel, don’t bother.
If the guy is misquoting people to fit his agenda, as the person in his story said happened, then he deserves to get blasted.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
With an Elephant Gun
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 7:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Criticism or not.....
Thamel appears to have an agenda………for more background on the players in this little deal here you go
Thamel is just as likely to have misrepresented what the Turkish GM said as he did what the Duquesne asst. coach said…..at least in my book. My guess is that NYT told him he had to have 2 sources before they would print the story and he threw the coaches comments in there as a backup to what Karakas told him.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
and here is even more......
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't have Cal worked a little harder
on getting another big man if Enes was nothing more than a gamble.
No matter where you're at, there you are
Maybe.
He could have done that, anyway. It isn’t as if we lack scholarships.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I don't think he has the kind of agenda you think.
Thamel’s agenda is becoming a respected sportswriter. One way to get there is to bring down Calipari. If he’s able to do that, he becomes a name brand.
I do think that is his agenda, and there is nothing wrong with it. He apparently believes the worst about Cal, and that’s his right. As long as he is reasonably fair, he is well within his ethical guidelines to concentrate on the bad guy.
Look, there are lots of folks who agree with him. Would you criticize a crime reporter for trying to bring down John Gotti? No, of course not. If you believe a guy is bad, the pen can be mightier than the sword.
I just happen to think Thamel and his ilk are mistaken, but I don’t begrude them their opinions, or even their crusades, as long as they keep their facts straight.
I don’t believe Thamel deliberately misquoted Crawford. I think that was a misunderstanding between the two of them, but I don’t think it’s really that material to the story. The odd way it is presented tends to make the college coaching fraternity look like the mafia, but I don’t see how anyone could relate that to anyone in particular. No reasonable person would conclude that Ergul could somehow control what goes on at Duquesne. That’s just not a valid judgment.
I really don’t want the BBN to go all Jerry Tipton on Thamel. Thamel did a fair job reporting the facts, and if he got a quote slightly out of context, that’s par for the course for reporters — it happens all the time.
Let’s not do the conspiracy theory thing. I think Thamel gets the facts pretty well correct, at least as they were described to him. I wonder if his sources were actually relating facts, or spinning them, but since they refused to produce evidence, I guess we’ll just have to wait on the NCAA’s judgment.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Thamel and Calipari in New Jersey?
I wonder if Thamel feels slighted by Cal for something that happened while Cal was coaching in New Jersey. Just saying.
No conspiracy theory here.
Simple matter of one guy trying to make a name for himself at the expense of another. Thamel has no problem with it, and evidently you don’t either, And that is fine. I however choose to hold the opinion that any reputation earned at the expense of another is nothing to hold in high regard. Just my opinion.
Thamel comes off to the rest of the world like a junior Woodward and Bernstein. He comes off to the average UK fan as the Antichrist. I find him to be slightly above that title, assuming he is telling the truth.
Breaking the news is the job of a reporter. I understand that. Twisting words , or manipulating information is an altogether different matter. Jones says the assistant told him that was exactly what happened here. Is Jones lying?? I only know what was written. Much the same way that most of the world only knows what Thamel wrote. Therein lies the problem.
The only question now is, will the full truth ever really come to light?
Probably not, but hey, anything can happen.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My attitude concerning Thamel
can be summed up thusly,
" Rain on the scarecrow, blood on the plow"
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 8:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Greg
You’re right. There is no conspiracy. These dudes are conducting themselves like 90%
of the human race. They are obviously of the baser sort.
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
I agree with much of this, ASoB, but not this:
I really don’t want the BBN to go all Jerry Tipton on Thamel. Thamel did a fair job reporting THE FACTS, and if he got a quote SLIGHTLY out of context, that’s par for the course for reporters — it happens all the time.
I don’t think what is the meat of the NYT article can be said to be “facts.” Not yet. Did Kanter take a salary? Well, one guys says he did, but offers no proof. That is not a “fact,” in my opinion. That’s a viewpoint.
As far as the quote, again, I disagree that it’s only slightly out of context. According to Crawford, Thamel asked him about a second prep player, unrelated to the discussion about Kanter, and, when Crawford declined to speak about this other player—who knows, maybe a Duquesne recruit?—Thamel used that quote as if it were made about Kanter and Ergul. That’s total fabrication, not a slight distortion.
If I remember correctly...
This is not the first time Thamel’s ability to quote someone has come under scrutiny. In mid-July, you reported that at least some of his information in the Bledsoe story was either misquoted or the story was changed by the sources. Now, we have Crawford stating he was misquoted.
As a result of this developing pattern, I believe there is room for some harsh criticism of Thamel’s journalism. He either needs to find sources that won’t change their stories, or he needs to buy a tape recorder. While you can’t blame the guy for going after the optimal target, you can certainly make a complaint over his journalism skills.
The sports editor today
said that the newspaper stands by the story. He also said he didn’t think that Thamel recorded the interview. Supposedly, the Turkish guys Thamel quoted spoke through interpreters.
Sorry this didn't come as a link Greg,
This is a article that does state that Max Ergul is an agent.
That's OK.
Ergul responded to that article by saying he was simply an interpreter. Nothing else was ever made of it so I brushed it aside. He could be. He could not be. Who knows.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that's actually wrong, at least according to Ergul.
He says he’s not an agent.
The problem is, agent, runner — any real difference? The NCAA doesn’t think so.
He’s probably not registered, but then, how many runners are?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
More DeCourcey....
The one question the NCAA really must ask is this: if Kanter weren’t committed to being a collegian, why would he be here? There’s plenty of money available to him to play for Fenerbahce or another club. He’s gone to an awful lot of trouble to play college basketball. To be a pro, he’d merely have to return home.
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
and he would supposedly get millions to do it.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Proof
Is there any proof for this story yet? Any evidence behind it?
SaturdayDownSouth.com - SEC Football Blog
by SaturdayDownSouth on Sep 8, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
Supposedly the NCAA already has the documentation that the Turkish Club provided
I think that is the one part everyone is in agreement with
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg
Not completely. I agree with all who believe that the NCAA doesn’t know what to do with their own policy.
Also it looks like the NBA farm system (NCAA) has gone worldwide. Bound to happen. When man loses all sense of morals, hell is the limit. “If it feels good, do it.”
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
Simple Solution
Salary paid = ineligible.
Reasonable expenses paid = probably eligible.
But why is it that things are NEVER simple when it comes to the NCAA???
I agree it SHOULD be that simple….but rarely is in real life.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I think that about sums it up. Although there is quite a lot of slip between cup and lip there.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I could have gone with Michael Jackson's nose ...
… but I was afraid somebody would be offended… :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Would it have ever been questioned if he went to Washington???
My guess is yes to both questions. Maybe not to the extent we have done it here. If this were Washington’s problem then it is only a blip on our radar. And there is a whole lot more of us than there is of them.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
EVERY Foreign Player Is Questioned
Automatically.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It really makes no difference ...
… to the agenda of the Turkish team and Euroleagues. Kentucky or Washington. Same, same.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
This part has always made me curious
OK, we are all aware of the one and done’s; how Cal’s genius is getting the guys ready to go pro — right? So that’s why Enes chose UK… makes sense, yes? Not, to me.
Enes could have stayed in Turkey and gone as a top pick in the 2011 draft anyway. It’s happened before.
Why would this young man want to attend a US prep school and enroll at UK when his ticket to the NBA could have easily been punched in the European leagues — with less hassle and more money before he even came over here?
Could it be this fellow is actually over here for an education? Noooo, that can’t be it.
No matter where you're at, there you are
No, I Doubt That
But he picked Uk because Calipari will make him a better pro.
Stoneridge (2010) or the WV prep school (2009) aren’t noted for education.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
But he did make a statement to that effect, that he wanted to attend college in the US.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He Wants To Play College Basketball, Sure
Education, not so sure about that part.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the quote attributed to him.
I want to go to college in the US. Interpret it however you want
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 9:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I Just Did
You have to GO TO college to play basketball there.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Jack
Are you catching anything today? LOL
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
It would explain why he chose UK.
Of course, it would also have justified a few other schools not nearly as good in basketball.
From ESPN
A quote from ESPN’s Paul Biancardi:
Kanter was born in Switzerland to Turkish parents and spent most of his youth in Turkey. His father, Mehmet, is a renowned doctor and medical professor of histology (the study of the microscopic structure of cells and tissues) and has been very influential in the choices his son has made. For instance, the elder Kanter advised Enes to forgo that professional contract and come to the United States where he could get an education and play high-level college basketball.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, He'll Have To Take Lots Of Classes In 2 Semesters
He’s very likely one and done.
He’s going to UK for the basketball experience and exposure.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 9, 2010 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, we heard you the first 27 times
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 9, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I will however point out, to quote a famous line......
“I find your lack of faith to be, disturbing”…….
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 9, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I Predicted 30 W Season
That’s happened less than 20% of the time since WW2. It first happened in 1946.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 9, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Forty
Afraid you’re right.
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
Well, OK
but it seems like he didn’t even now about Cal until after he’d been in the U.S. for a while. As I recall, he committed to UW, first.
No matter where you're at, there you are
no one remembers anything that doesnt have a Wildcat attached to it.....lol.....
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Kentucky is the last place he'd go if he wanted a decent education.
by aMo on Sep 8, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh look, another applicant for the Lord of The Rings sequel......
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This is your one and only warning.
No smack talk allowed.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
No smack talk, just saying that if pure academics were his reason as the previous commenter stated, Kentucky is not really the best option.
by aMo on Sep 8, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
UK Is A Very Good School
Greatly improved and one of the best Universities in the middle South.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Forty
Damned straight!
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
I actually think
your main point is fine; I just think your delivery was a tad off. And considering it was your very first comment here, it probably should have had a little more thought and sensitivity to it, you know?
Given Enes’ financial situation he could have gone anywhere to college and even gotten a Harvard-like education if he’d wanted. And while I will agree that UK is a good school, I don’t think he chose it for its stellar academics. No, he chose it because he wanted to play for what is currently the “king of college basketball” and wanted to play for a coach that has a knack for remarkably preparing athletes for the NBA.
An education might be in the mind of Enes, but I think basketball comes first. Also, it should be noted that he was never thought to be one who would actually stay at any University in order to get his degree. He may get his degree, sure, but he more than likely will not be in the college environment when he gets it. It might be hard for some to swallow, but I think it’s the truth.
The Gospel According To amo???
Forgive me for seeming skeptical
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 9:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For "pure academics", he could have just stayed home.
If “pure academics” is what Kanter wanted, he could have stayed in Constantinople, where you could get a good university education over 1000 years before Harvard was founded.
So, I say you’re just a lot of smack talk.
by BlueCollarMan on Sep 8, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I guess I'll just tear up my degree since you tell me it is worthless...
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
We all knew it wasn't a real degree anyway
Coop. Coming from UK and all
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 9:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I knew all those classes were bulls**t......
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
aMO
Are there any deep rivers where you live? Good. Tie a concrete block to your leg and jump in!
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.
Hey now....
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Sep 8, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Well-
If this is true, and he is already a professional, I’d rather know now. I certainly do not want something like this surfacing after we hang banner number eight…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
Exactly. Get it all cleared up and done.
Either way
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 9:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
Better to know now.
Isn’t “not cleared to play”, the reason he didn’t play for us in Canada? I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time. ’-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
But I also have to wonder?
How could Coach Cal, or someone associated with trying to bring this kid to Lexington, NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS? Really makes me wonder if this story is legit…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
He did know.
Read Parrish’s article here. He says it all.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
That is just it. This is not a story.
This is just someone making a lot of noise
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 8, 2010 10:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Congratulations, Ken
You’ve come closer than anyone to contemporaneously answering the question: Is it worth it? And because the question in itself requires a value judgment the answer will evolve with time and conditions.
"People unfit for freedom -- who cannot do much with it -- are hungry for power. The desire for freedom is an attribute of a 'have' type of self. It says: leave me alone and I shall grow, learn, and realize my capacities. The desire for power is basically an attribute of a 'have not' type of self." — Eric Hoffer
Cal cares not about "perception", he cares about the kid.
He doesn’t mind taking the hit if it helps the kid……as long as it is permissable to do so.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 9, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Different Issue Altogether
HS or Prep school don’t take players who have played in pro leagues, paid or not.
And yes, I think Calipari knows PERCEPTION is reality at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 9, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg and Forty
No doubt in my mind that you are BOTH right. Hairs in the same bowl of soup. LOL
Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

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