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Where Did All The KY HS Basketball Talent Go?

KY Mr Basketball from 1960 through 1979:

1960 Jeff Mullins Lafayette Duke St. Louis HawksSan Francisco/Golden State Warriors
1961 Randy Embry Owensboro Kentucky
1962 Mike Silliman St. Xavier Army New York Knicks1968 United States Olympic Team
1963 Mike Redd Seneca Kentucky Wesleyan/United States Marine Corps Boston Celtics
1964 Wes Unseld Seneca Louisville Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets
1965 Butch Beard Breckinridge County Louisville Atlanta HawksCleveland CavaliersSeattle SuperSonicsGolden State WarriorsNew York Knicks
1966 Mike Casey Shelby County Kentucky Chicago Bulls
1967 Jim McDaniels Allen County[4] Western Kentucky Carolina CougarsSeattle SuperSonicsLos Angeles LakersKentucky ColonelsBuffalo Braves
1968 Terry Davis Shelby County Western Kentucky
1969 Ron King Central Florida State Golden State WarriorsKentucky Colonels
1970 Robert Brooks Madison[5] Eastern Kentucky
1971 Jimmy Dan Conner Anderson County Kentucky Phoenix SunsVirginia SquiresKentucky Colonels
1972 Jerry Thruston Owensboro Kansas State/Mercer Golden State Warriors
1973 Wesley Cox Male Louisville Golden State Warriors
1974 Jack Givens Bryan Station Kentucky Atlanta Hawks
1975 Dom Fucci Tates Creek Kentucky (baseball scholarship) Chicago White Sox
1976 Darrell Griffith Male Louisville Utah Jazz
1977 Jeff Lamp Ballard[6] Virginia Portland Trail BlazersMilwaukee BucksSan Antonio SpursLos Angeles LakersHamby Rimini (Italian Serie A, 1986), Hitachi/Reyer Venezia (Italian Serie A2, 1989–90)
1978 Doug Schloemer Holmes Cincinnati
1979 Dirk Minniefield Lafayette Kentucky Cleveland CavaliersHouston RocketsGolden State WarriorsBoston Celtics

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I know I am inviting the wrath of God here, but where is this leading us to?

I mean I appreciate the historical info, but basically this is just a repost of someone else’s info concerning Kentucky Mr Basketball. Were you making a point here Forty? Is this a prelude to a “Where Are They Now?” piece?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 6, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Discussion

KY used to produce high caliber basketball talent, year after year.

Now, it doesn’t. Why? Where did the talent go?

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 6, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you raise a really interesting discussion, 40.

Quite fascinating, really. I am guessing the euphemistic “demographic changes” (alluding to race, obviously) in top basketball talent, and the wide difference between those demographics and the demographics of the state of Kentucky, would have to be a major factor. Maybe also population changes—shifting from rural to urban/suburban. Could possibly even be just normal cylindrical changes, and Kentucky will be back as a hotbed of talent in a few decades. I read a book about the consolodation of smaller rural Kentucky high schools having a negative affect on the quality of KY HS basketball—but I guess that meant more the level of competition among the schools, and not the quality of the players themselves.

Thanks for sharing, and I’d love to hear others’ thoughts.

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 6, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's Deeper Than I'd Go

KY still produces very good ATHLETIC talent, just not so much in basketball.

IN however still produces great basketball talent, year after year.

I don’t really understand why KY no longer generates the hoops talent.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 6, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was not a rhetorical question......Are you asking us to answer the question, or are you going to provide

an answer yourself? You usually have a point to these historical posts

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

You say you don't understand the drop off in talent.

But I submit to you that there is no drop off in talent. There has been a rise in the level of competition and expectations at UK. We do not accept down years anymore. We do not accept average play. We want superstars, and Kentucky has never produced that many superstars at the collegiate and professional level. Coaches now go wherever they must to obtain top tier players. More and more kids from inner cities and other countries are becoming basketball players. It is not just country farm boys anymore who know the game. We have not gotten worse, they have gotten better.
Yes we have our exceptions. But there are not 10 superstar level athletes that have come from Kentucky that have been in the NBA. Let me rephrase. there are not 10 Hall of Fame caliber athletes who have played in the NBA from Kentucky. And I mean from Kentucky High Schools. And unfortunately now the NBA is the level that we all measure those players by. Calipari has changed the game. Don’t get me wrong, there have been loads of great kids who made it to the NBA from Kentucky as well as Louisville. But most of them didnt last very long.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree

UK has had about 1/3 “down years” by your definition in the past 60 years.

1960-61-63-65-67-74-76-79-85-87-89-90-2000-02-06-07-08-09 are “down years” then.

I showed you a list above. KY HS basketball produced numerous “superstars” in 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s (among Mr Basketball honorees).

There are only 3 UK HOF basketball players are Cliff Hagan, Frank Ramsey, and Dan Issel. 2 of those 3 are from KY. If you count Adrian Smith (1960 Olympic team inducted into HOF), that’s 3 of 4 from KY.

The GREAT majority of UK star basketball players since mid 1960’s came from states other than KY. Only a handful came from KY.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you misunderstand......

or maybe I didnt type it the way I wanted it to come out., and maybe not. Most of the guys you have on that list above would not be characterized as “superstars” or HOF talent. I honestly believe that typical Mr.Basketball award winners are not usually what end up becoming top tier talent in the NBA. And that is not just from Kentucky, that is from anywhere. But it still does beg the question, were those “down years” you listed above which appear to me to represent about 1/2 of the decades you covered in your opening article an aberration or the norm?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither UK Nor Any Other School Will Recruit "Superstars" Exclusively

No college team will be made up of a roster full of HOF players.

In recent UK years, only John Wall has that potential.

KY produced gobs of basketball talent in 60’s – 70’s – 80’s but not since.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Discussion

I usually participate in same.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Relatively low income levels,

smaller schools, more multi-sport athletes, reduced competition levels.

Lower income levels=fewer elite camps, etc
Smaller schools=more multi-sport athletes (due to pressure from coaches, family, communities, etc)
Less specialization=less development of native talent=lowered competition levels.

Not sure any of this makes the young KY athletes any less worthy as human beings (as a matter of opinion, it probably has the opposite effect), but in my experience and opinion, these are all factors.

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."

by oldcat'69 on Sep 6, 2010 8:05 PM EDT reply actions  

If you didn't grow up there, you probably don't understand.

It’s a bluegrass thang!!!! :-))

"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."

by oldcat'69 on Sep 6, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That May Be Part Of It

But IN still produces basketball talent in droves.

Indianapolis and Fort Wayne still have lots of basketball talent.

Louisville and Lexington, not so much any more.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

forty

you left out Clem Haskins

by Bluehound on Sep 6, 2010 8:54 PM EDT reply actions  

I Just Listed Mr Basketball Names

Haskins wasn’t Mr B-ball in 1963.

Certainly he turned out as good as anyone on the list.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why stop at 79?

We seem to be assuming the people in the later years did not work out. Frankly, I don’t think they did, but shouldn’t they be listed for comparison’s sake?

by wklawdog on Sep 6, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

You May Do That

Google “Kentucky Mr Basketball Wiki” for the entire list.

There is a noticeable dropoff beginning in the 1980’s despite some good talent (Rex Chapman).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Mr._Basketball The 1980’s still had good talent but not as good as 60’s or 70’s in my opinion.

From mid 90’s on, there is a huge drop-off in talent level.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know that Kentucky's basketball level has dropped off so much as...

Other parts of the country have gotten better.

I think OldCat pretty much hit it on the head above. The demographics of who plays basketball is now entirely different.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Sep 7, 2010 8:17 AM EDT reply actions  

But That Doesn't Explain Why IN Still Produces Top Level Basketball Talent But Not KY

1995 Charles Thomas Harlan9 Minnesota/Eastern Kentucky
1996 Daymeon Fishback Greenwood Auburn Columbus Riverdragons (NBA Development League, 2001)
1997 Brandon Davenport Owensboro Morehead State/Gardner-Webb/Lindsey Wilson
1998 J. R. VanHoose Paintsville Marshall North Charleston Lowgators (NBA Development League, 2002), West Virginia Miners (United Professional Basketball League, 2002), West Virginia Wild (International Basketball League, 2006), West Virginia Wild (American Basketball Association, 2008)
1999 Rick Jones Scott County Vanderbilt/Murray State Houston Blaze (Texas Professional Basketball League, 2005)
2000 Scott Hundley Scott County Vanderbilt
2001 Josh Carrier Bowling Green Kentucky
2002 Brandon Stockton Glasgow Kentucky Louisville Gamblers/Estill Express (Kentucky Basketball Developmental League, 2007)
2003 Ross Neltner Ft. Thomas Highlands LSU/Vanderbilt
2004 Chris Lofton Mason County Tennessee Caja Laboral
2005 Domonic Tilford Jeffersontown Cincinnati/ New Mexico Junior College/South Alabama
2006 Walt Allen South Laurel Presbyterian College/Asbury College
2007 Steffphon Pettigrew10 Elizabethtown Western Kentucky
2008 Darius Miller Mason County Kentucky
2009 Jon Hood Madisonville-North Hopkins Kentucky
2010 Elisha Justice Shelby Valley Louisville

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, now I am lost, who is Indiana producing?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indiana Produces Up To (10) Of Top 150 HS Players

Kentucky produces 0 or 1, tops.

Never heard of Eric Gordon? He’s on the USA national team playing in FIBA championships this week.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

every year???

And even if that is so, what does it have to do with Kentucky? Is it your contention that we are losing all of our talented guys across the river? Or that we just dont have any talent here anymore at all?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

And using this year's FIBA team as an example of greatness is not

all that noteworthy. More than one writer has made note of the fact that all the real talent is sitting at home. For whatever their reasons are.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two Very Similar States

Mostly rural, 1 big city, a few small urban areas.

IN >>> KY at producing HS basketball talent.

It used to be IN = KY if not KY > IN.

And yes, REGULARLY if not every year.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their last 20 guys are listed below.....some that may turn into something are there recently, but they have not as of yet.

2010—Deshaun Thomas, Fort Wayne Luers

2009—Jordan Hulls, Bloomington South

2008—Tyler Zeller, Washington

2007—Eric Gordon, Indianapolis North Central

2006—Greg Oden, Lawrence North

2005—Luke Zeller, Washington

2004—A.J. Ratliff, Indianapolis North Central

2003—Justin Cage, Indianapolis Pike

2002—Sean May, Bloomington North

2001—Chris Thomas, Indianapolis Pike

2000—Jared Jeffries, Bloomington North

1999—Jason Gardner, Indianapolis North Central

1998—Tom Coverdale, Noblesville

1997—Luke Recker, DeKalb

1996—Kevin Ault, Warsaw

1995—Damon Frierson, Indianapolis Ben Davis

1994—Bryce Drew, Valparaiso

1993—Kojak Fuller, Anderson

1992—Charles Macon, Michigan City Elston

1991—Glenn Robinson, Gary Roosevelt

1990—Damon Bailey, Bedford North Lawrence

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

to me, the point is not necessarily whether

said players became HOF or “top flight”—that is such a vanishingly small number that I don’t think it’s a very useful metric—but whether they made it to the NBA at all. I would certainly count making the NBA as qualifying as a “basketball superstar.” Glancing at the recent Indiana list, obviously a number of them did make the NBA (I don’t watch the NBA and don’t have time to look it up, but just glancing at the list at the very least Glenn Robinson, Bryce Drew, Sean May and Greg Oden did) . Glancing at the recent Kentucky list, the max level a player there achieved was NBDL. Of course, Indiana has a greater population than Kentucky so it’s to be expected that they would have more NBA level players, but as 40’s original example shows, KY MR Basketball’s DID end up in the NBA in the past.

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 7, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true, I just think the difference is so small it is not really that distinguishable

between the two. With the way that recruiting has gone global these days I just think that is more of a “reason” if there is one, other than there just is not that much Ky talent anymore. I think when UK was winning constatntly the thought was that schools should come down here and get some of that Kentucky “talent” . As our winning ways went up and down, so did the recruiting from that talent base.And now recruiting ( finding out who the kids are that are out there) is as easy as flipping on a laptop and typing in a name.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don't necessarily give credence to making it into the NBA as being "great"

I mean didnt Roderick Rhodes make it into the NBA?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

You were the one who brought the post up.

And it is not a recruiting criteria. I simply referred to “recruiting” as the way that talent has expanded. That is your version of what I said not mine. Don’t do me any favors Forty. You have you idea of what talent is and I have mine. Kentucky talent has never been any better than it is right now. There are simply more areas to pull talent from than there used to be, so now Kentucky may not be a relevant as it used to. Period.
You want to call the talent less than what it was, fine, that’s your bag not mine.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's Absurd To Think That UK (Or Any Other Team) Will Recruit Only HOF Talent

Even UCLA in 1960’s and 70’s blended HOF players (Alcindor, Walton) with a mix of other players.

KY talent surely HAS been MUCH better than it is now. The 1960’s are perefect example.

UK started recruiting nationally in mid 1960’s. Issel, Starrick, Parker, et al.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basketball HOF

Not NBA HOF.

The other poster only think Basketball HOF-ers are acceptable recruits at UK now.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the love of all that is holy, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID!!!!

Good Grief Charlie Brown you are thick.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

ABSOLUTELY What You Said

Players need to be Larry Bird level to become UK recruits.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I said was that I didnt remember anyone that came from Indiana but Bird in the last 20 years

sorry, but there is not one more household name in the bunch.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Eric Gordon is NOT a household name. The kid may be a good ball player, but he is not YET

a superstar.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what I said ......word for bloody word
OK, now I am lost, who is Indiana producing? I Shall Always Be The Cat……In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
.
I mean I remember some names…..but I dont remember them giving the NBA a top flight player since Bird. I Shall Always Be The Cat……In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You turned that into:
Your Minimum (HOF Superstar) Recruiting Criteria = Absurd And that’s being kind.

And this:

Your Minimum (HOF Superstar) Recruiting Criteria = Absurd And that’s being kind.

and this:

Basketball HOF Not NBA HOF.

The other poster only think Basketball HOF-ers are acceptable recruits at UK now.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which Of The Following Are "Acceptable" UK Recruits?

Travis Ford.

Derek Anderson.

Scott Padgett.

Anthony Epps.

Cameron Mills.

By your criteria, none of them.

But without them, UK doesn’t make FF in 1993 and 1997 or win NC in 1996 and 1998.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I NEVER said they were not acceptable.Stop putting words in my mouth.

But I tell you what, you get those 5 guys, I will go get our starters from last year and let’s see who wins the most. You want to play this game? Then fine. I take last year’s starters, or this year’s starters either one and I beat that team.

But that still does not go to the fact that you are making statements I never made.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone can beat anyone on any given night........

WVU loss was an exception…..as were the other few losses. But it does happen.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huggins is 8-1 (Career) Versus Calipari

Beats him like a drum. And Huggs isn’t that great of a coach. A good one, yes.

But great? Hardly.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The HOF Minimum Criteria = Absurd

No school can limit its recruiting to HOF caliber players.

Calipari would get a LOLROTFLAMO out of that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one said they should. There you go putting words into someone's mouth again.

You can have any criteria you like. The caliber of players that Calipari is now bringing in is closer to HOF levels than it has ever been. If it makes you feel better to criticize that then fine. But no one knows for sure about what is ahead. And you only cite examples of the past, and the distant past at that. However you wish to make your arguments does not change the fact that we are still producing the same players now that we always were. But there are still more choices out there than ever before. How many Enes Kanter’s do you remember from the 50’s 60’s and 70’s??? I seem to remember a guy that Indiana had a while back, I honestly don’t remember how long ago by the name of Ewe Blab I think. Was the first foreign national I remember playing the game. I know you can probably cite chapter and verse on the subject and that’s fine too. Ask any Coach in America where he recruits at now and he will tell you this, EVERYWHERE. Ask those same school’s coaches that question in 1960 and most will tell you that they have a particular area they went to and then all the in-state talent they can get. That is just the way it was.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Accurate WHATSOEVER

Joe Hall recruited similarly to Calipari (though Cal is better lately).

Uwe Blab was barely Top 50 rated in HS. That’s an absurd example. AND he was of German descent but played HS ball at Effingham (IL) St Anthony HS.

Reggie Harding (from Detroit in early 1960’s) went straight to NBA like Kanter would.

KY is N-O-T producing anywhere close to the talent levels it produced 30, 40, 50 years ago. Not EVEN close.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another Lame Attempt At Nostalgia
Disconnecting from change does not recapture the past. It loses the future.

If one is looking for a current metaphor for the state of KHSAA basketball they need probe no deeper than Chase Behanan — the Commonwealth’s top BB talent but only because he moved from Ohio for his senior year. As noted above there are several contributing factors: pure demographics, globalization of the sport including it’s raging popularity thus making BB increasingly attractive to an ever larger group of athletes, and all abetted by escalating media exposure. As a 60-year Cat fan my interest is how UK may sign the best players practical and possible and with little preoccupation from where they come — Turkey, Topeka or Taylorsville.

"People unfit for freedom -- who cannot do much with it -- are hungry for power. The desire for freedom is an attribute of a 'have' type of self. It says: leave me alone and I shall grow, learn, and realize my capacities. The desire for power is basically an attribute of a 'have not' type of self." — Eric Hoffer

by Wild Weasel on Sep 7, 2010 6:38 PM EDT reply actions  

AMEN

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Always Been That Way

Point is, the best basketball players in Rupp’s day most came from KY.

Over 80% of his UK players were from KY.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

because they didnt go other places to get them. It was not considered a normal part of recruiting in those days

there were a handful that came from elsewhere, but the budgets and winning without those kids rendered it a moot point.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn't Necessary

UK caliber players were found all over KY and surrounding states (IN, IL, OH, etc).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go find some stats on foreign players, and inner city school players, etc.

Your answers are there.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, and throw in african american players in there as well.

look at the number in college basketball in 1950 and today……

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

NCAA Championships Were Integrated In 1950 (CCNY)

Teams like San Francisco (1955 and 1956 NCAA champions) were integrated.

UCLA integrated its program in the late 1940’s. Their integrated teams romped through NCAA in 60’s and 70’s.

UK didn’t have a black player in NCAA game until 1971.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

UK Signed Inner City Players From Louisville And Lexington In 40's And 50's

And from big cities like Chicago, Pittsburgh, New York City, and others, too.

No one signed foreign players until Kresimir Cosic in 1960’s at BYU.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didnt want to cross that line, because God only knows what he would have done with it.

I guarantee you that there were more talented african american players that never saw a college due to just that fact. And that is all over the country, until the late 50’s and even on into the 60’s

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Accurate

NYC teams signed black players in the 1940’s.

Cincinnati had its first black player in 1932.

UCLA integrated its team in the late 1940’s under John Wooden. Big 10 teams integrated in the 1950’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Rupp won his last championship when??

Sounds to me like the SEC did us in more than talent in Kentucky

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Missed The Point AGAIN

KY basketball produced lots of talent in 1960’s.

SEC had nothing to do with Jeff Mullins going to Duke or Mike Silliman going to West Point (Army).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not championship talent.

I know you remember that little game in 66. I know there were other factors, but Rupp did not win a championship his last what 16-17 years as coach?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rupp Had Gobs Of Talent In The 1960's

Nash, Conley, Kron, Riley, Dampier, Issel, Casey, Pratt, Parker to name several.

The ’66 team had talent.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

SEC Prohibited Blacks Getting Scholarships Until 1964

But that’s why UK fell behind teams like UCLA and Cincinnati in the 60’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why not just say that from the beginning instead of all of this round and round?

No one could argue that point logically. Geez.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 7, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

UK Dropped The Ball Until 1969

If Joe Hall had gone to St Louis U, who knows when UK integrates its team?

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

But FACTUAL

KY no longer produces top caliber basketball talent. In the 1960’s and 70’s, it did.

Thankfully Joe Hall turned Adolph Rupp on his ear in 1965 and put in place a NATIONAL recruiting program.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

There Were Isolated Examples Of Recruits Like Riley In 1963

But most UK recruits under Rupp came from KY or adjacent states. Well over 90% of Rupp’s players did.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly I don't think 40's post

was an attempt at nostalgia, lame or otherwise, or a hint that he wishes UK would NOT sign the best players possible no matter where they’re from. I think the point intended, unless I’m way off the reservation, is pretty straightforward—in decades past, the numbers indicate Kentucky produced major basketball talent. Now, for a number of reasons we’ve all batted around—demographics, economics, globalization, etc etc—this is not so much the case. I really just think he was trying to get up a discussion about these changes, and I don’t see what’s lame about it? And I certainly don’t see how we even got onto the subject of UK recruiting, because really the original discussion has nothing to do with UK at all.

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 7, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Was The Point For Discussion

Why does KY no longer produce basketball talent when IN still does? The 2 states are pretty similar.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 7, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I was in High School in Lexington in the early 60’s a big man was maybe 6’ 2", and there were lots of players shorter. And the choice in sports for guys were basically limited to four: football, basketball, baseball, and track. And it was not unusual for your “studs” to letter in all four.
The big rich schools out East and up North would have other choices, like wrestling, gymnastics, volleyball, swimming, soccer, etc. but if you were a jock in Fayette County it boiled down to the same four sports.
And the basketball players did not spend half their summer vacation going to “camps” honing their skills, there weren’t all those camps available, nor the money to pay for them. Now days a “serious” athlete will probably be limited in how many sports he plays,because it is not just basketball during the season, but all year round if he is going to compete for a scholarship. And genetics better have given him the heighth to play, or no one is going to take him as a serious prospect.
If all 12 players listed on the roster for UK in the exhibition games in Canada are to play this year, the average height is 6’6.5". Without Kanter it drops down to 6’ 6". If you check back to those teams in the 60’s and 70’s I think you will find a much smaller team average. The 77-78 team averaged 6’4" e.g.

by blenheim bard on Sep 8, 2010 5:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Good Points All

The 1966 Runts are evidence of what you say. 6-2 and 6-3 forwards. 6-5 center.

But http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/roster1977-78.html the 78 Cats averaged 6-5+ with 4 big men (6-11 Robey, 6-10 Phillips, 6-11 Aleksinas, 6-10 Courts) on the roster.

I still don’t see why KY kids of 2010 don’t develop as basketball players like IN kids do.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 8, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

you know,

what is interesting, though, and forgive me, I haven’t been reading this thread religiously, so I do apologize if this has already been touched on, but did we all kind of agree that lower income levels were a likely contributor to the diminished KY talent? That is funny, ‘cause basketball is really one of the cheapest sports you can play. You don’t need all the equipment that say, hockey, or football, or even something like tennis requires. All you need is a ball and something to put it in.

Sorry, I know this thread is dead, I guess I’m just thinking aloud and your hockey comment inspired me. : )

by BigSkyCat on Sep 9, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

Hence the reason that stereotypically the best basketball players are from poor urban areas….that it’s a cheap sport to play with easily available equipment. FOr this reason, I have a hard time getting my head around the issue being economic, because the same should apply to hard-knock inner cities too—but it doesn’t. So the mystery to me is why basketball talent proliferates in some poor areas (urban ones) and not in others (rural such as KY) when both have strong basketball interest, access and tradition.

…just in case someone (anyone??) wanted to listen to me beat a dead thread even further :)

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 9, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll listen ... breath of fresh air to have a logical discussion ....

I don’t know about Ky, but here in Ga it’s hard to get noticed and hence get better in Basketball without being on some kind of travel team …. maybe that has someting to do with it …

by ukcris on Sep 9, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yay

someone’s still listening!

so, maybe the great concentration of people and therefore players in a small geographic area like a city creates opportunities for travel teams, AAU, All-Star teams, fancy private schools with huge athletics budget….things that are unrealistic in sparcely populated rural areas.

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 9, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

THAT Hit The Spot

KY has few AAU programs and traveling teams. Eddie Ford had one, not sure any more.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 9, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are several here ... and tournaments go on literally all year long ...

they reach a peak around the end of summer … with a large national tournament in Orlando … it wouldn’t be unusual to spend two weekends a month out of town … and if you lose you’re home Saturday evening and if you win Sunday evening … that takes funding (lots) …

by ukcris on Sep 9, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have

successfully resuscitated the dead. And, maybe answered the freakin’ question while you were at it. Congrats. How does it feel to be a healer?? : )

by BigSkyCat on Sep 9, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with your point BSC....

The thread started with “Where did all of the Ky HS basketball talent go?” … as you can see it went downhill fast …. my comment about hockey was kind of sarcastic … I just ran out of time and had to give up on the discussion …

by ukcris on Sep 9, 2010 8:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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