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Around SBN: Despite Relocation Drama, Coyotes Overcome Adversity

Kentucky Basketball: Answering Some Understandable Questions About Eric Bledsoe

First off, let me get this out of the way -- I am not an unbiased observer, or a disinterested third party.  I am a Kentucky partisan, and proud to be one.  Unlike newspaper reporters who register independent but have a 100% partisan voting record one way or the other, I am not about to attempt to deceive anyone that I have no interests at stake here.

With all that said, my colleague Eammonn Brennan at ESPN has a very wry take on the whole Bledsoe scenario, and assuming that he is agnostic, at least as far as Kentucky basketball is concerned, I can totally understand and appreciate that.

Eammonn raises some excellent questions.  Let's examine the most notable:

In other words, a school board used taxpayer money to hire a reputable independent firm, led by former President of the Alabama State Bar Mark White and retired Federal Court judge and Civil Rights pioneer U.W. Clemon, to investigate a former student's transcript. Then, once that firm presented its report -- which, despite the almost-impossible-to-provide evidence of actual wrongdoing, is pretty clear in its judgment, ethics-wise -- the Board decided to basically ignore it. So why spend the money? Why waste the time? Why hire the firm if its investigation only mattered so much?

These are excellent questions, to which I think I have the answers.  They are speculative, but then again, I suspect that's about the best we can do under the circumstances.

Star-divide

The answers are found in this article by creature, to which I keep referring because so many, if not the ultimate, of his arguments were proven right by the decision:

Teachers jigger grades. You jigger a grade because the student is going to college. You do it because he might get an award or scholarship. You do it because he's a nice person. Many more grades are jiggered up than down, I know that. And if there's going to be a market in getting paid by agents to jigger grades, teachers will do that too, because while students care a lot about grades, most teachers care about knowledge and hate the grades that so often falsify the whole process.

This is, as Frank Zappa would say, the "crux of the biscuit."  Educators are a touchy-feely lot, by and large.  They actually care about some of their students, particularly ones who work hard to achieve something but who's dreams are threatened by earlier misjudgments or marginal academic skills.

Bledsoe's college career was threatened, probably by both.  His teachers knew that if his GPA was not to a certain level, he would not qualify for college.  His family could not afford to send him to junior college, or anywhere else.  His mother was as poor as could be.

So the teachers helped a talented kid get out of bad circumstances by "jigger[ing]" his grades.  Is that unethical?  In a strict sense, it is, absolutely.  As much as we would like to go all warm and fuzzy and say, "But look at how well it turned out!", it was an abdication, in a strict sense, of the teacher's responsibility.  It was moral relativism at it's finest.

Now, I say that without knowing the actual facts.  The teacher claimed that Bledsoe put in the necessary work to earn that grade.  The investigators were unable to substantiate that claim.  That, in itself, neither renders the claim false, nor the the investigators wrong.  It simply is a "he said, she said."

Turning now to the question of why the Alabama school board did not take the word of the investigators that spent $10,000 and 3 months to reach this conclusion, creature again has the answer:

But they are getting ready to run into a brick wall. The school system is in a position to say: everything was done right BECAUSE WE SAY SO AND THAT'S THAT. The Birmingham school system budgeted $10,000 for the report. I know for a fact that that sum of money is far from negligible in that system. If they paid that much, it was in order to put the cap on this whole business for good. If they were going to send out a teacher to confess to a crime, they would have saved their money.

This is an important observation that, even though it failed in the context of his larger argument, stands as absolutely insightful in the final analysis -- Alabama was never going to throw Bledsoe under the bus.  The $10,000 was spent to prevent that very thing from happening by third parties, namely Pete Thamel and the Times.

Do you suppose it is a coincidence that the investigation was unable to turn up much of the documentation it was looking for?  I am not so naive.  Rather than having Thamel firing FOIA requests and sniffing around for blood that he may have found and that the school system would have had to defend in the media, they hired an Alabama law firm to find what they could and issue a report which they justifiably ignored for lack of evidence.  That probably saved them $25,000 in public relations consulting and held the papers off until any actual evidence of wrongdoing, if it ever existed, was "lost."

Alabama was never going to allow a bunch of northerners to come down and trash one of their most helpless.  Ever.  Trust me.

Guilty or innocent, regardless of what the lawyers said, Alabama was always going to stand by their student, absent some nefarious third-party involvement.  I'm sure they'd tell you I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.  The Brimingham Board of Education had determined this outcome the day it commissioned the law firm as a show of its willingness to take the charge seriously.

Many will point to the fact that the independent counsel did not believe the teacher's claims as proof of wrongdoing, but wrongdoing by whom, and for what purpose?  A teacher who wanted to help a poor kid get as shot at the big time?  Good luck selling that as a bad thing, even though the teacher clearly violated any number of ethics maxims if my opinion is actually right.  Many will call that moral relativism, and they will be right.  But many will secretly applaud it nonetheless.

Finally, Eammonn has this:

Either way, this is essentially what we're talking about:

    * A high school player that may or may not have had his now-redacted grades changed to meet an arbitrary (and, depending on who you ask, unnecessary) eligibility requirement handed down by a large non-profit organization.

    * A report that says those grades were changed, and the ones who changed them couldn't come up with good reasons why.

    * A school board that said, "Great, but we're taking the teacher's word anyway."

    * And a group of fans apparently ecstatic about this ruling. Why? Because this way, the aforementioned non-profit can't issue a decree saying games that obviously took place -- I saw them; we were there -- never actually took place at all. Reality remains intact. Much rejoicing ensues.

Folks,  that is sweet stuff, and exactly what we have.  At the end of the day, I am largely untroubled by it, primarily because I know it happens hundreds of times a year in thousands of school systems, and nobody says boo. Not only that, but we get the bonus that nobody can persuasively argue that this outcome was bad in any way with respect to what happened after Bledsoe's graduation from high school.

For the teacher, mission accomplished.  For Kentucky, another bullet dodged.  For college basketball, business as usual.  For Eric Bledsoe, the world when he could have been trapped in poverty.  For Pete Thamel, well-deserved frustration.  For the Birmingham school system, an extended central digit directed north.

Much rejoicing ensues.  All in all, it could have been worse.

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"Well-desrved frustration"?

Love it.
Note – typed using my Big Blue Shades. :-)

Excellent Tru. Just excellent. Rec’d.

It is now Saturday for me and that means fooootbaaaawwww!
Go Big Blue!!!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Sep 25, 2010 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Don't worry.

More FOOTTBAAAWWW! will be forthcoming, :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 25, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Forget college basketball....

if grades are changed for a mere basketball player, what might we assume is the grading culture for the Alabama football players? Talk about opening a can of worms ….

by jpbluekat on Sep 25, 2010 1:05 AM EDT reply actions  

True, but

 the Thamels of the world are more concerned about going after Coach Cal in order to make a name for themselves. He swung and missed on this one, but something tells me he isn’t done. It’s sad really. You have guys like Pearl who are actually breaking the rules, but no one cares because Cal is the guy everyone loves to hate.

Consume excrement and expire......

by adaircam4 on Sep 25, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent analysis but ...

Excellent analysis, however, I can’t help but feel saddened by this event for the image it portrays on Kentucky & college basketball as a whole. (Yes — I totally understand that Kentucky was in no way, shape, or form, indicted by this issue. Yes – I understand that it’s business as usual. That said, it doesn’t paint Kentucky or college basketball in a positive light. It won’t take but a handful of eligibility issues like this and Kentucky’s image will be seriously damaged.) Calling this a win for Kentucky is much like saying we had to burn the village down in order to save it.

by Chris Choate on Sep 25, 2010 2:12 AM EDT reply actions  

What saddens me ...

… is the idea that UK fans would rather look good than give a kid a chance who obviously deserved it.

I’m sorry, but that shows no courage whatsoever. Bledsoe was said to have earned his grade by the teacher. With all due respect to the law firm, I will take his word over theirs. He was there. They were not.

Assuming that’s right, not taking Bledsoe would have been a cowardly act, kowtowing to irrational fear of the NCAA. I think Kentucky led by example here, and I am actually proud of them. Some will say that UK took a chance. I would argue that they did the research, reached the correct conclusion, and had the fortitude to lay it on the line.

Sure, we could quit taking all students with marginal transcripts, but that would have a disproportionate negative impact on minority students, particularly from big cities. I don’t think that serves either UK or college basketball.

I think Kentucky fans should stop worrying about the NCAA and trust the administration. They have kept our noses clean for 20 years, and were once again vindicated here. At what point do we begin having a little faith?

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 25, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cheers, Glenn.

That’s it exactly. So many, like bigbill below, want us to write off the more “iffy” recruits at face value. I say no. If there’s an issue, look into it. As best you can and with the help of the high school and the NCAA. You owe it to the kid. If it turns out you really can’t take him, that’s a shame. But if it turns out there’s nothing there, that the kid is being painted with the wrong brush, stand by your findings. Damn the detractors. It’s not taking a chance. It’s having faith in your due diligence and the courage of your convictions. And it’s the right thing to do.

by Wheatgerm on Sep 25, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

There are those

UK fans who seem intent on taking us back to 10 loss seasons and irrelevancy. With Cal here we are relevant but there is a price. Thamel, Forde and Tipton, among others are hunters and Cal is the buck with the biggest rack. They missed this time but they haven’t given up the sport. I say again that they may never win a battle but they could win the war by attrition. Every UK fan that defects from the Cal camp due to their relentless onslaught will count as a small victory until they tip the scales and Cal is sent packing.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 25, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

vindicated or just lucky?

Glen, valid points but vindication in this case could have been nothing more than luck. The discovery of additional paperwork could still turn this issue against Kentucky (highly unlikely at this point). Kids with the talent of Bledsoe are going to make it to the NBA with or without one year in a school of UK’s caliber. The “disproportionate negative impact on minority students” is only on the 0.001 that have the ability to make it to the NBA. Many minority althetes end up with little education, no degree and never make it to the NBA. These “student/althetes” with marginal academic records could actually be better off in a non Div 1 school where the opportunity to get an education would be better. I’m not a fan of the NCAA but they make the rules and eventually this type of recruiting will cost Kentucky a season (my opinion of course). Hopefully I’m wrong. Regards,

by Chris Choate on Sep 25, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

You state it very well, Chris. A bittersweet victory at best. I love me some Eric Bledsoe but Cal/UK have shown that they can lure the best of the best here, so maybe we should back off on somje of the more “iffy” recruits out there. Juswt sayin’.

by bigbill992001 on Sep 25, 2010 4:20 AM EDT reply actions  

I disagree. This is no reason to avoid "iffy" recruits.....

I agree with the replies above. This was a win for UK and their compliance department. They got it right. I think the fan base needs to show their ability to weather these storms and not let some biased journalists scare them into a closet. As the old saying goes, if you can’t run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch.

by Cat-a-list on Sep 25, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Moral Relativism isn't the issue here

There is a concept in teaching called “differentiation”, where teachers provide different assignments to hit different students’ learning level or learning style. Make up or extra credit work can make up a big part of that. Just ask any teacher what an IEP is and they’ll understand. That’s why I agree with Matt Jones that this was one big waste of time on Thamel’s part.

by ukbulldog on Sep 25, 2010 7:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Hmm.

Well, Thamel succeeded in launching an investigation that could potentially have resulted in the NCAA vacating Kentucky’s 2009-10 basketball season, and put a spotlight on how high schools hand out grades.

With all due respect to Matt, it’s hard to see how that could reasonably be described as a waste of time. Thamel had all of college basketball riveted for months, on and off, on this story.

Even though he may have personally wished for an outcome harmful to Calipari, whom I think he despises, he gained a ton of national notoriety and attention for his newspaper. Waste of time? I’m thinking no.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 25, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you're right that

it wasn’t a waste of time for Thamel. But it was for just about everyone else involved. It seems weird that so much ink can be spilled and hands wrung over one kid’s grade in one class. Is that really what college athletics and it’s reporting has come to?

by ukbulldog on Sep 25, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am just happy that this issue seems to be settled.

I do believe there were some things that went on here that was not exactly “on the level” (for lack of a better term) in the school system. However, I do not think UK was/is culpable in any way concerning the grade situation.

Was there an inappropriate grade change? Perhaps according to the report, although there is not enough evidence to say definitively.

Does Bledsoe believe he earned the A in algebra III legitimately? We will never know. And does it really matter at this point.

What did UK know and when? This seems to be a question that many will struggle with inside and outside of the program. In other words, did UK know there may have been an issue with that grade and just hope that the NCAA would clear him. That seems to be the conclusion that many outside the program will run with.

In the end, I am a bottom line guy. And the bottom line is that this issue is hopefully behind us and we can move on.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Sep 25, 2010 9:04 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I am completely satisfied, myself.

The teacher taught, and gave a grade. A bunch of lawyers said they didn’t agree, and the school board rightly implied by their actions that teachers know more about handing out grades than law firms.

I think UK did a good job, and the right thing by a kid who was qualified to be here. I am proud of Kentucky and the compliance department.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 25, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am more than satisfied....more like thrilled

that UK and Bledsoe is spared the embarrassment and possible punishment that these “charges” may have led to.

I do have one question for you though….From what you know now, do you think the A was legitimate? I really have no idea and at this point don’t care. Just curious what you think because this is really the heart of the investigation.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Sep 25, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

The question shouldn't be "do you think" the A was legitimate.

That opens up the subjective, allows speculation and bias. All the things that hamper sound reasoning. The question should be what does the weight of the reliable evidence establish. We have a teacher, one with a good reputation by all accounts, who says Bledsoe deserved an A based on his make-up and extra work. And he was there. He would know.

On the other side, we have … what? Feelings? Doubts that a kid can get his act together enough to make a good grade in math? That’s pretty thin gruel by comparison. We have an attorney, well regarded by all accounts, who does not credit the teacher’s explanation because the teacher changed Bledsoe’s grades far more frequently than he did grades for other students. (He might have meant test scores, as Bledsoe had only two grades changed for one course.) It’s too bad the report did not offer more than a single sentence about this. Should the changes have been equally distributed among the other students? Did other students do as much make-up and extra work? Were other students as motivated to achieve a particular grade? The report doesn’t explain.

We also have the principal and superintendent, who better understand how these things work and who see nothing incredible about the teacher’s explanation.

On my scale, it’s not the number of opinions or loudest that matters, it’s the quality of those opinions. And here, how can we not give the weight of the evidence to the teacher?

by Wheatgerm on Sep 26, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Glad this is settled too

My parents are both teachers and grades are changed all the time without athletics being involved. In fact, the athletes usually get LESS of the benefit of the doubt because of the scrutiny. Fact is, the teachers changed the grade to an “A” and had every right to do so. The board in Birmingham had no choice but to stand by their teacher. If they hadn’t, the board and their teachers stood to lose a lot of power over their own schools.

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain

by BigBlue1976 on Sep 25, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another good article Tru. Now how do u guys like ur GATOR BURGER hot mustard or easy mustard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

James(Jimbo) Downs

by oilliecat on Sep 25, 2010 9:24 AM EDT reply actions  

SOME of the ESPN guys

are not ready to write today’s game in UF’s win column. UK being recognized as a possible threat against the Gators is sweet music. I don’t think they are JUST trying to get viewers either. They have no problem talking about a definite loss.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Sep 25, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm conflicted

I debated on whether to even post my thoughts. But here goes.

Yeah, UK compliance did everything right. Yeah, Eric performed the work he was required to do in his only college year. Yeah, a desperately poor kid from an inter-city made it to the big leagues and his family escapes from rags. All of this is good.

But you argue that the end justifies the means.

The facts suggest that the Birmingham school tried to help a good young man escape from his bad situation. But standards are established for a reason. The transcripts posts were made two days before the first college visit. What message does this send to other kids in similar circumstances? “I don’t have to worry about it and do my work as I go through school. They took care of Eric and they’ll have to take care of me.”

Choices have consequences. In this case, the choices of the kid earlier in his school career would seem to make him unqualified for financial aid as a scholarship. Teachers and administrators making it all right just before it matters does not seem like the right thing to do or to send the right message to young people. It happens all the time? Maybe so, but I’m not convinced the end justifies the means.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Choices do have

consequences and in most areas of life, minor children are not given full responsibility nor authority to make choices on their own. To hold a child accountable for decisions made before they have attained the maturity to fully understand the ramifications seem a little harsh and unfair. Maybe it was a little hard to keep up with schoolwork while living in a car.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 25, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

… I did not argue that the ends justify the means.

I argued:

  • UK did everything right.
  • Grades get changed all the time, for good reasons.
  • Teachers deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to handing out grades over lawyers.
  • UK showed courage by taking a kid with a marginal transcript that stood up to theirs, and the NCAA’s scrutiny.

Just because the outcome was desirable does not mean that we should justify it by any means. If there had been wrongdoing, either by the school system, UK, or anyone else involved, I would have taken it to task. In fact, I did suggest that the teacher could have acted unethically.

But in the end, there was never really any reason to believe that the teacher had engaged in actual wrongdoing. If a teacher wants to give a kid a break, that may be strictly unethical, but it is morally defensible.

Nothing in this process, i.e. the means, even requires justification by the outcome. It is all justified by common sense, procedure and precedent.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 25, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

The timing of the transcrpt posting

is not relavent in my opinion. The grade changes were documented in November and Decemeber, so what’s the big deal that no one entered them in the computer until April. And that was explained by his coach. ie. He needed the transcript because of a visit he was about to make to Memphis. People can speculate all they want about possible back dating of the other documents, but speculation is not proof. The cold hard facts are that HS grades are changed every day. And it is done done as much or more so for non-athletes.

by Cat-a-list on Sep 25, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

None of us are sure

None of us are sure about Eric’s “choices”. Who said he made bad or good ones concerning school? But I will say this, you try studying and making school a priority when you’re living in a car and starving.

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain

by BigBlue1976 on Sep 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

This from

Eric Crawford, “Translation: If the transcript fits, you must acquit.” Still chuckling over that one.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 25, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Tip of the Iceberg

UK and Cal bring this attention on themselves. The Bledsoe affair, the Kanter affair – these are just the tip of the iceberg. Cal does a good job recruiting players who don’t care about getting an education. His elite recruits arrive with the idea that they will be in the NBA after one year. They’re not committed to Kentucky. For this reason, Kentucky will never win a national championship under Cal and UK will likely end up vacating seasons, just as Memphis and Massachusetts had to vacate seasons under Cal.

by Deepcloser on Sep 25, 2010 10:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, arent you a ray of sunshine this morning........

guess we can have your final four tickets, eh?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

REALLY???!!!

That’s why CAL just recruited a point guard that made strait A’s in school for like, 12 years, and reads Shakespeare for fun! Oh yeah, Brandon Knight doesn’t care about school! Geez Lueez.

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain

by BigBlue1976 on Sep 25, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brandon Knight

is an excellent example of a student athlete.

However, many of us feel uncomfortable with UK being constantly in the spotlight for negative issues.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

I am uncomfortable as well, but it is just something we will have to live with because it ain’t going away. So long as UK is in the top teams and contending the hate will be strong. So long as UK is actually committing no wrongs then I don’t care what they say. Let ’em talk all they want.

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain

by BigBlue1976 on Sep 25, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't mind at all

if UK is hated for winning. What I do mind is the innuendo and assertions that UK is involved in or beneficiary of activities that are outside the lines.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

jdog, in all honesty, that is their problem, not ours....

you are never going to alter people’s perception of UK. It has been this way for decades and will remain so. Combine that with the now billions of “historically uneducated” individuals out there who care nothing for the truth, just the next big story, and you have an untenable situation in worrying about how people view us.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

when people make allegations that are unfounded in truth. What concerns me is when many of us wonder about the assertions that could contain truth.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

at this point, any "assertion" about Cal can contain nothing but

snide , baseless, commentary, because that in truth is all they have.

The critics are going to stack this thing with Eric up alongside everything else and just keep piling on…..and they are wasting good effort and a lot of time doing it

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why is the glass half full?

You seem to believe/imply there is truth just because people make assertions. When you are successful, there will be some people with envy that will spin the facts and out right lie to try to tear you down. A return to mediocrity and irrelevance is the only way it will go away. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the vast majority of the BBN prefer to be relevant and trust the coaches, athletic department and the compliance department.

by Cat-a-list on Sep 25, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Point of information

UMass’s season wasn’t vacated. Neither was it put on probation. Why do you suppose so many people say otherwise?

Facts. They’re a good thing to keep straight.

And what is it about the Kanter “affair” that troubles you, Deep? Anything the least bit scandalous or shady about it? Seriously, I want to understand your point of view. I want to understand why non-UK fans have added his recruitment to the list of grievances against Calipari.

by Wheatgerm on Sep 25, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Point of information

UMass’s NCAA tournament record was vacated.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Leaving the official record 31-2.

And that’s the point. As the years pass by, a vacated Final Four appearance turns into a vacated season followed by probation. And people – even Bobby Knight – believe it, accept it as fact. Or they simply want to. Because it reinforces the meme. (damn tru for teaching me that word …) So set the record straight when you can. If we’re basing our opinions on history, let history be the same for everyone. Maybe then we can agree on something.

note to tru: we’ve had two “crux of the biscuit” references in the last couple of weeks. i like it, but maybe put it back in the drawer for a while. ’

by Wheatgerm on Sep 25, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

UK's 1988 NCAA Results Were Vacated

But no one ever says the 88 season was vacated. Eddie Sutton gets a pass from the media. John Calipari, not so lucky.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 25, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

UK does nothing wrong unless they play him without is eligibility decided. He is either declared an amateur or a pro. One means he plays for UK, the other means he goes to the NBA.

Oh wait, I know. Cal will somehow pull shady deals and have him declared able to play NCAA ball. It’s a pro-UK conspiracy!!!

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain

by BigBlue1976 on Sep 25, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know, we may have lost something in translation here about Cal.

This is going to sound a little on the “less than honorable” side to the purists out there, so let me say this in explanation. Punishment teaches better behavior, or at least smarter behavior.

I think that Cal learned his lessons from the previous two situations that everyone keeps whining like a schoolgirl about. Take Marcus Camby for example. How hard do you think that Cal is going to look at his players and any sudden changes in lifestyle or friends and such? I think that situation taught hiim to keep his players as a close knit group, so they can rely on themselves and the staff instead of having outside influences creep in.

Now on to Derrick Rose. I think Cal keeps that NCAA decision in a drawer in his desk real handy so he can take it out and look hard at it every time he gets a chance. I also think that Cal went to Sandy Bell after that decision was handed down from the NCAA, placed a copy on her desk and said, don’t ever let this happen to us here at UK. The reason this has become a non issue is because the parts of all of this that could be brought into question by the NCAA were covered, investigated, and then covered again.

Nothing teaches you like experience, and I think Cal is too smart to get burned in the same way twice. He has learned that while he was not at fault in those two situations, having compliance personnel who cover your butt like a grandmother’s quilt is not only smart, it is mandatory. I personally think that Sandy Bell may have been very instrumental in getting Cal here. He saw someone that has a firm grasp of what can and cannot be done and appreciated that he would not have to worry himself about these things.

You show me any really successful person, and I will show you someone who surrounds themselves with smart and reliable people. Ask any Wall Street Mogul, Coach, or head of a corporation. You are only as good as the people who surround you.

I also think that this is why he is so confident about Enes Kanter. I think he knows down to the last Turkish penny where all the money went and what for. And so does Sandy Bell. And they think they can get the kid qualified.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Kanter Will Play (I Think)

He may give up some games in OOC play.

But he’ll be a Cat when it counts.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 25, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think so too Forty.......and I think that UK pretty much has an idea when at this point

they may not be completely happy with what they get, but they will get their man.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with you about Kanter

and hope you are right about prior experience and Sandy Bell.

by jdogblue on Sep 25, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cal says his dad (a Doctor)

Kept a very good paper trail with expenses.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Sep 25, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

see, everyone thinks that this is a "pathological" thing with Cal, for lack of a better term

they think that they know he did something shady before so he will do it again. I think he is too smart for that. I think he took it hard when he got blamed the first time for Camby by the public, so he learned his lesson. I think the Rose situation taught him even more. Not being guilty does not mean he was not smart enough to see the writing on the wall and learn from it.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I said that months ago.

Maybe a year ago. He is smarter than looking for a third lesson.

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Sep 25, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

A few thoughts.

.

THUMBS UP:

  • Eric Bledsoe: The young man now has money for his family. That is huge. And very real. Anyone on this board ever been hungry one day and full the next?
  • Coach Cal: With guys like Thamel obsessed with following this artful recruiter around the globe and into the bathroom to secretly count every kernel of corn he drops off, if he gets out of UK unscathed I will be laughing my ‘behind’ off. I wonder who will play this legend in the movie?
  • Forde and Tipton: Still have a chance to move to the front of the line and bag the coach.

THUMBS DOWN:

  • Pete Thamel: Carelessly trashed a high school kid trying to make a name for himself. Wasted everyone’s time because, in the end, we didn’t learn anything about high schools, teachers, students, poverty or the NCAA that we didn’t already know. Oh yeah, and did I mention the kid whose privacy he trashed was a high school student? Part your brows and take a long, hard look in the mirror, Pete.

-- Tim . http://HomeSalesLexington.com/barn

by HSLex on Sep 25, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

the way I see it

the only way the teacher may have did wrong is either taking money, or the promise of money, ( if Eric went pro ) in changing the grades, other than that I think he did the rite thing, he helped a family get out of poverty……another way to look at it, he saved taxpayers money….lol

by Bluehound on Sep 25, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Point of view

NCAA officials have themselves spread thin in this vast arena of compliance in both basketball and football. The staff is in danger of making themselves marginal in their own game by the focus they chose to bring forward. While media may or may not spend time on a hint or charge of wrongdoing…the internet folk certainly do. This means the big names are always at the front of the pack. “The bigger you are…the harder you fall”.

Another point… with the numbers so high in recruits and the system so farcical in oversight there are simply too many students and too many places to adequately monitor or even look at. The entire Alabama school system…at least all Birmingham atheletes would have been fair game and we do no know the outcome of such a witch hunt mentality.

Last …a lesson learned here is the top recruits will get the most scrutiny. Add Kentucky and our coach to that formula and Kentucky recruits will not only get the most scrutiny but it will be ongoing. Before they come. After they come. While they play. After they leave.

We are stuck with this.

I think often that one upgrade on the system is to have a way to close the door. If a student is cleared by the clearning house…cleared twice by the clearing house and cleared by the univeristy that means the student is cleared. Additional historical information could not then be used to cancel his or her performance UNLESS…and all could make one or two catagories that would allow this perpetual review. All other things are finished.

I take issue with the categories of ex-felon often…as an anology. An individual never really walks away from that label. Some should not ever be allowed to avoid their behavioral consequences and yet others should be able to get beyond being punished for a lifetime.

Is this angst of scrutiny a given at Kentucky? Absolutely. Has Kentucky earned it? Maybe in the minds of some.
Can we meet these challenges and be who we are. No doubt.

by CAWebb on Sep 25, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

that article had a hint of pouting to it....lol

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

what saddens me

We dodged a bullet-without doubt, Is there anyone who does not like Eric Bledsoe ? Is there one who is unhappy with him going to the NBA? Of course not. Are we glad he got a chance? Yes, we are. However, as a basketball program that is constantly in the limelight, we just cant afford to recruit kids like Eric anymore. The Alabama school board could have simply changed the grades back from As to a C and B. Eric would have still graduated from HS but would not have been eligible. I thought thats what they might do. Right now recruiting is not our problem, so why take the risk on a marginal student? The media is going to continue to exploit the UK program because of Coach Cal. Its unfortunate because Cal treats his players very well. even the ones who screwed him,e.g., Marcus Camby. What do we loose by being more careful and beefing up our Compliance office and looking at potential recruits like a regulator?

by Lcat on Sep 25, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

One and Done

Everyone knows Calipari is a good recruiter. He’s smart, charismatic, sincere, good-looking, and every high school kid who wants to jump straight to the NBA knows he gives them a great platform.

But Cal is an empty suit. Let’s look at it this way. If the NBA returns to letting teams draft ballers straight out of high school, the Kentucky program would fall apart instantly.

Here’s the deal about Cal. He doesn’t recruit kids who want to play 3 or 4 years. For this reason, he has to reload every year. And being a great recruiter does not mean he’s a great coach. He’s a mediocre coach who gets great players.

Cal doesn’t build teams. The dribble-drive is not a system. It is not a framework for taking lots of talented (or not so talented) individuals and creating a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. You need a sophisticated coaching philosophy and players who are willing to commit to the school and the philosophy.

Kentucky will always do well in the regular season, but never make it to the Final Four because true “teams” such as Butler, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Duke (not just a group of talented individuals) will break them down every time.

by Deepcloser on Sep 25, 2010 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

says you

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 25, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do "true 'teams'" only play in March?

Why won’t “true ‘teams’” beat UK in the regular season? Surely having more time between games is a disadvantage to a team with no coach when facing a full-bodied suit to prep his team.

The dribble-drive is not a system. It is not a framework for taking lots of talented (or not so talented) individuals and creating a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Is “creating a team that is greater than the sum of its parts” bad? That sounds like good coaching to me.

by GoLightning on Sep 25, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Troll alert!

Please remember, don’t feed the trolls.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 25, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Definition of a Troll

Here is the definition of a troll: “A Troll is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Trolls delight in causing discord on the forums.”

How is it outrageous to say that “Calipari is a good recruiter. He’s smart, charismatic, sincere, good-looking, and every high school kid who wants to jump straight to the NBA knows he gives them a great platform?”

This is a legitimate point of view. I am praising Cal. He’s the best-looking, most charming coach in college basketball. And his father was a doctor!

I am sincere. I plead with you, man.

Does Kentucky Blue mean
I have to agree with you to be seen?

BTW, I was suggesting that Cal’s teams are “less” than the sum of their parts. Who can argue with that?

by Deepcloser on Sep 25, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Calipari has taken 2 teams to the Final Four ...

… and come within a couple of free throws of winning the national championship.

That is real, no matter what the record books say.

You are welcome to your opinion, but don’t expect many in here to agree with you.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 26, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Somebody has a man-crush on Cal!

Good looking, perhaps. My wife isn’t impressed. (I’ll take that as a compliment, thank you.)

But the best-looking coach in college basketball? And the most charming? And his father was a doctor? You’re not a Jewish mom, by any chance.

Just funnin’ with ya. If the one-and-done rule disappeared tomorrow, you don’t think Cal could still recruit the best players going to college? Those who still want to get to the NBA ASAP and who want to play a year or two for a guy who can get them there? One-and-done or no, there’s always going to be a population of recruits who want the short road to the NBA draft. And that population will still find Calipari attractive. Maybe even alluring.

by Wheatgerm on Sep 26, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

If one-and-done

disappeared tomorrow Cal would just get the best not-one-and-done players… So that was a pretty stupid point to make.

by Clint Phelps on Sep 27, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is extra work not a good reason?
A report that says those grades were changed, and the ones who changed them couldn’t come up with good reasons why.

Just because they investigation team didn’t find the reason credible, doesn’t mean that the teacher didn’t give a good reason. There may not have been evidence of that work, but I easily see a teacher throwing away (or hopefully recycling) students’ work that was turned in over a year ago.

by GoLightning on Sep 25, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Those of you who say there were rules broken or standards compromised

don’t know what you are talking about – aren’t thinking straight – or are allowing the opposition/enemy to define the argument – so just shut it…

What standard are you referring to? The NCAA standard of a 1.725 gpa in a set of core classes? OK – the NCAA doesn’t say HOW that is to be accomplished. The district, high school and teacher have complete carte blanche to set the curriculum, syllabus and grade standard for any course. Everybody knows there are hard teachers and easy teachers. If you get an easy teacher are you saying you should, in all honor now, decline to accept the ‘A’ or ‘B’ or ‘C’ simply because you didn’t work as hard to ‘earn’ the grade as a student unlucky enough to have landed in the hard teacher’s class? (In my HS, some students actually transferred schools to avoid Mr. Stansbury’s English Literature class.)

Some teachers are lenient on make-up work and some won’t allow it at all, even illness not with standing. Which would you want your children to get? Your kid got sick, or just had a bad day and didn’t do well on a test but was allowed to make it up and thereby qualified for sports participation or a scholarship or, lord help us, your Dad wouldn’t have to take the car keys away because your grades slipped. My sister had a girl friend killed in a car accident and her grades plummeted. One teacher worked with her throughout the ensuing summer to make up the work and get her back on track – changing grades left and right as she turned in make-up assignments. You have a problem with this?

Some kids get to take PE all the way through HS, some HS’s don’t even have gym. In my HS gym class, attendance was all that was required – miss 4 or fewer classes without a prior arrangement and you got an A. (Some guys even slept through the entire hour on a padded weight bench making up for sleep lost working at a part-time job.) Kids at a school without gym might be said to be at a disadvantage if they had to take more academic (harder, perhaps, for less cerebral students) classes in order to earn their HS gpa. Is there a problem with that?

I also took a HS psychology class [Btw, this class would have qualified as an NCAA core course.] where if you agreed to participate in the teacher’s class experiments you got an ‘A.’ I thought it was a great class, not least because I didn’t have to take a test or do homework like the poor guys in the class next door. Is there an issue here?

I’m sure you get my point. Think about it and don’t let the opposition define the question/argument.

by TeamWeaver on Sep 25, 2010 7:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

That’s exactly what is happening in some cases.

Some UK fans are allowing their enemies to define the argument, and set the rules for debate.

Not me.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 26, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is the

old divide and conquer approach. The only way to stop Cal is to turn us against him.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 26, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kentucky & Louisville

Regarding Cal’s chances of taking Kentucky to the Final Four, consider the following facts.

1). Cal’s returning players contributed 16 percent of Kentucky’s points last year. Rick Pitino’s returning players – even with the loss of Samardo Samuels – contributed 42 percent of Louisville’s points last year. Duke returns 62 percent of its points, even with the loss of Jon Scheyer.

2) Put another way, Kentucky is starting from scratch. Just like it will year after year with Cal. Until he gets tired of the grind and jumps to the NBA.

3) You cannot build a Final Four team from scratch with 18 and 19 year old kids. The problem is that Cal isn’t building a program. He’s operating a way station. His eyes are on the NBA, and so he recruits kids whose eyes are on the NBA. His loyalty is not with Kentucky (although he obviously doesn’t mind taking the school’s $4 million each year). Let’s count – how many other professors would that money pay for – 40? Or student scholarships – 200?

4) Let’s look at the incoming freshman. Look at the prep school basketball mills and foreign professional teams three of the top five recruits come from – Stoneridge Prep, Oak Hill Academy, Miami- Dade Community College. Realistically, are Kanter, Lamb, and Vargas at Kentucky to get an education? Let’s throw in Terrence Jones, too. We can concede Brandon Knight is a special, bright kid. But probably none will be at Kentucky — if they can help it – for their sophomore year. And the team’s GPA is not likely to rise with this crew.

5) What amazes me is that in this basketball environment – with players (and a coach) who have no loyalty to Kentucky or any real commitment even to building the program and to winning – that Kentucky fans are so loyal. It is truly touching.

by Deepcloser on Sep 26, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

I'll Take Kentucky From Scratch

Louisville and Pitino stunk LAST year. I’m glad they have more of their players back.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 26, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

A new coach

is usually given three years benefit of doubt while building his program. Cal has been here one year and you already have closed the book on him. I think you are suffering from premature evaluation (Rick Pitino has a related syndrome). Try deep breathing or thinking of UK football and see what comes with time.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 26, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

35-3

Interesting result to close the book.

Only 1 UK team ever had more W.

Few UK teams had better W-L (%).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 26, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, scratch did pretty well last year.

And this year, for a change, Cal has returning players. If Kanter plays, I think we have as good a chance of making the Final Four as anyone.

If you think DeMarcus has no loyalty to Kentucky, how can you ask us to take you seriously?

by Wheatgerm on Sep 26, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

The media is the issue

If we do not do a better job on the compliance side in evaluating recruits, the media will have their way with us. The Bledsoe investigation was “media driven”. Someone sent Erics transcripts to the Times. If the media had not had access to the transcripts, no story!! The NCAA already cleared Eric. Unfortunately, reporters will continue to investigate Kentucky recruits. They will find out information on a recruits background as well as his parents and associates . John Wall is a good example. In an interview with a DC area reporter, he was told by the reporter that his father served time in prison. How is that ethical? John,s mother never informed him of that. How would you like to have to put up with that kind of crap?? So any recruit who has questions re his past will be scrutinized by the press. I will bet anyone that the story about Anthony Davis’s father and the $200K payoff will surface again and some boosters names will be mentioned. This will trigger endless speculation and the whole circus will start all over again.maybe even an NCAA looksee. The only way out of this is to recruit squeaky
clean players. Thank God we lost Josh Selby. KU might be the next school to loose a season.

Do I sound paranoid? Maybe a wimp?? I hate all this s_ _t.

by Lcat on Sep 26, 2010 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Wrong.

If we only recruit athletes that there is no question about, we can’t recruit anyone because we can never know everything about everybody. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. With your approach, UK will never win another championship. And don’t come back with Duke and UNC, yada, yada, yada. They get caught with the same issues as other teams and the UNCAA just looks the other direction. We are going to have to fight for everything we get.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 27, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just feel glad for Bledsoe that this is all over.

I hope that everyone lets this die now, especially his inner circle. I hope that no one looks to bring litigation to the table.

Maybe I’m wrong, and I very well could be because I wasn’t there, but this seems to me like a case of generosity. Even if the grades weren’t completely earned, it looks like a case of teachers and faculty recognizing what was on the line for this kid and doing what it took to get him there. If agents were involved it would have been much more apparent while he was still in high school in my opinion. Congratulations to Bledsoe and his family, and UK’s compliance department.

by Clint Phelps on Sep 27, 2010 8:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Let's put it simply,

if a test has 10 questions, 7 correct answers get you a C and 9 get you an A. Much ado about nothing over 2 out of 10 questions on a test.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 27, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

True Story From My Purdue Days (Early 70's)

A dorm friend of mine was Purdue football player. He missed an exam on a team road trip.

The prof agreed to give him a makeup test. He did.

1 question – name the 12 months of the year.

The player answered 10 of 12 correctly.

Prof gave him a B (10 of 12 = 83%).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 28, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong

Then how come Duke has won 5 national championships over the last 20 years? Close to the same for UNC and Indiana( with Bobby Knight). These schools try not to recruit student athletes with marginal grades. They have better Compliance offices than UK. I agree we can’t know everything about everybody, but are you unhappy we lost Josh Selby? I am not .Pity KU at this point. Even if the NCAA does clear this kid, if I were the KU coach I’d stock up on Zantac and get ready for the roller coaster ride!!

by Lcat on Sep 27, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Actually 4 (1991-92-2001-2010) For Duke

The UNC Compliance office INCORRECTLY told Jason Parker he was ineligible TWICE – in 1999 and 2000.

The UK Compliance office did the evaluation CORRECTLY and found he was eligible in both 1999 and 2000. Wake Forest and other schools reached the same conclusion.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 27, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

actually

I do not think either Duke or UNC have lost scholarships, had players declared retroactively ineligible or lost full seasons of wins. UK over the years has a bad compliance record, maybe the worst in the history of college basketball. We have been clean since Rick Pitino or about 20 years. And that is great .However, we cant rest on our on that recent history. With Cal, we are a target. So lets recruit kids with a cerebral cortex that exceed NCAA standards. Look at Kyle Wiltjer, a 3.4 grade point and of course Brandon Knight. I dont expect that everyone we recruit to be this good, but it proves we can do it. And I will bet anything no issues will ever be raised by anyone about these 2 super student athletes!

by Lcat on Sep 27, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I Hope Calipari Keep Recruiting Like He Has In 2009-10-11

If they are qualified for admittance to UK and approved by NCAA Clearinghouse, fine by me.

3.5 GPA tend to have 3.5 PPG more often than not.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 28, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good for College Basketball?

I don’t think UK or Coach Cal did anything wrong other than role the dice on a player that might not be eligible. We can take that risk if we want to, but we have to understand we are taking a risk and accept the consequences that flow out of it. This result is good for Bledsoe. Best to move on.

But I don’t know if it is good for college BB. Maybe the NCAA ought to get out of the eligibility business like Bilas says. Maybe there should be 3 divisions, where Division I is an unlimited, under 24 semi-pro league where colleges recruit anyone they want and pay them want. Division II could have a salary cap of $100,000 and Division III could be the traditional scholarship, gotta make grades, etc, and see what people want to watch and how universities want to participate.

But on the other hand, watching Pete Carrol, Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl, Jim Calhoun and arguing about these stories may be half the fun.

by Testudo1 on Sep 28, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

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