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NCAA Sports: Strict Liability And Eric Bledsoe

By now, we all have some idea what the legal term, "strict liability" means.  It means that you are liable for an act regardless of mens rea (guilty mind, in Latin), or negligence.  In other words, if it happens that you are liable for a strict liability offense, whether you did it on purpose, by accident, or had no idea it was wrong, it doesn't matter.

The NCAA has recently adopted strict liability to some of its transgressions, or so they appear to say.  The now-famous University of Memphis case involving Derrick Rose is the archetypal strict liability application on record in the NCAA when it comes to academic eligibility.  In the NCAA bylaw context, the Committee on Infractions said in Memphis that it doesn't matter whether or not Calipari, the school, Rose, or God Himself knew about Rose's invalid college entrance exam.  It doesn't even matter if it was declared invalid after the basketball season was over, and without dispositive proof of wrongdoing or even due process.  All that matters is the fact that it was declared invalid, and that rendered Rose ineligible, period.  No further inquiry required.  No blame to Memphis, or Rose, or Calipari, or anyone else, but wins must be vacated.

Strict liability is most often applied where state of mind and exercise of due care are irrelevant, or in cases of inherently risky behavior.  If, for example, you run a zoo and an animal gets out and hurts someone or damages their property, that is usually a case of strict liability.  Even if you took every reasonable precaution, the inherent risk places liability for the damages caused by the animals at your doorstep.  Another good example is speeding.  If you get caught speeding taking your pregnant wife to the hospital, a policeman is perfectly justified writing you a ticket -- there is no exception for pregnant women in our traffic laws, and it doesn't matter how careful you were in your driving efforts.

The NCAA, in the Memphis precedent, attached strict liability to academic qualifications for college athletics eligibility.  What it said was that it didn't matter if Derrick Rose cheated, it didn't matter if the school knew, and it didn't even matter if the process the (Educational Testing Service) ETS used to invalidate Rose's exam was fair.  All that mattered was that the exam was invalid because the ETS, the authority that validates college entrance exams, said it was. With an invalid SAT, Rose could not play college basketball within the NCAA bylaws.

This struck many as unfair, because the NCAA itself had examined the suitability of Rose's qualifications and had blessed them.  Of course, the NCAA Clearinghouse would certainly not have certified Rose had it known or thought the test would possibly be rendered invalid later by the ETS.  The NCAA did not know that, so based on the evidence in their possession from competent third-party authorities, they certified him academically qualified to play college basketball. 

Star-divide

The sequence of events in Memphis essentially places the NCAA Clearinghouse in the position of being a threshold organization rather than an actual clearinghouse.  What the Clearinghouse says about NCAA qualifications is only relevant if they do not clear an athlete in question.  If the athlete does get past their screen, it provides no cover or comfort to the member organization requesting the clearance.  It merely means that the NCAA is satisfied that the student athlete has facially met the threshold requirements to be offered a grant-in-aid.

What all this boils down to, and what the Memphis precedent appears to say, is that if any organization responsible for certifying the academic eligibility of a student athlete retroactively removes that certification, the NCAA is within its rights to declare the student athlete retroactively ineligible and force the school to vacate all games in which the player was a contestant.  In fact, based on what the NCAA said in Memphis, it is arguable that ordering the school to vacate wins is mandatory, even thought the NCAA bylaws give it discretion in the matter and do not require the strict liability standard. This is a doctrine that the Committee on Infractions has fairly recently adopted of its own accord.

So what does this mean for Eric Bledsoe?  Basically this:  No matter what the findings of the Alabama Athletic Association investigation, unless the school system invalidates the transcript that UK used to qualify him and replaces it with an amended one that would have rendered him an academic non-qualifier, Eric Bledsoe will not be declared academically ineligible.

Even assuming a teacher "fesses up" to changing that grade, the only thing that matters in terms of the strict liability application is the validity of the transcript.  If it does not get changed, then Bledsoe's eligibility will not be retroactively removed.

A Sea of Blue diarist creature has explained in some detail why this transcript change is unlikely to happen.  The fact of the matter is that the mere discovery of wrongdoing (assuming it is not imputed to Kentucky or any representative of the university) will not be enough.  The official record will have to be changed by the authority who issued it for the strict liability provision to be invoked by the NCAA.  How the Alabama school system issues grades is not the purview of the NCAA, at least not on an ad-hoc basis.

On thing that people fail to understand is the difference between an amateurism violation and an academic eligibility question.  In Memphis, the NCAA clearly separated the two, and that separation is punctuated by its actions (or rather, non-actions) against Duke University in the Corey Maggette matter.  While that case looks similar to Memphis in that both teams played a player that was (or should have been) ineligible during the season, the difference was that one was ineligible because his academics were not certified, and the other took money from an agent.

The NCAA has never explicitly applied strict liability in cases of amateurism violations with regard to vacating wins, although it has appeared to do so several times, not the least of which was in UMass during Calipari's last year there.  In UMass, the NCAA issued no public report, found no university wrongdoing, no wrongdoing by the coaches or anyone else associated with the program, yet it still vacated games in which Marcus Camby participated.

The Duke case is almost identical to this, yet the NCAA chose not to vacate wins in the Duke case for reasons nobody can quite figure.  Gary Parrish of CBS sports offered the official explanation some time ago:

Here was his [NCAA Vice President of Enforcement David Price's] explanation: "Our executive regulations specify that if an individual plays while ineligible in the NCAA championships, we can either vacate the team's participation in the championship and/or assess a fine for the money that they received. The standard for that is whether either the institution knew or should have known that Maggette was ineligible or if Maggette himself knew that -- or should have known that he was ineligible. After a lengthy investigation, we came to the conclusion that there was insufficient evidence to determine that Maggette knew or should have known, and we believe firmly that the institution did not know and should not have known."

This is what Parrish really means by selective enforcement (or should have meant, but the Rose case is the wrong antecedent).  The circumstances surrounding UMass and Duke are virtually identical -- players admitting to amateurism violations after the season -- but the results were different despite the axis upon which vacated wins allegedly turns being absent in both cases -- university culpability.  The NCAA action against UMass was indefensible by the above standard, so I think we can safely say that it is not a standard since the NCAA did not apply it in both cases.  What happens next time is anyone's guess.

It is hard to explain why the NCAA would "vacate" wins in any case.  The NCAA member institution, along with the other members of the team, get punished for rulebreaking committed by a player or even third parties not connected with the school who are no longer under the NCAA's jurisdiction, and who's conduct often could not reasonably have been foreseen by the member institution. 

It is wrongheaded, ineffective, and demonstrably does more harm than good.  It was the wrong thing to do in the UMass case, just as it was in the Memphis case.  The NCAA should apply the doctrine of stare decisis, or letting settled matters alone.  Punishing the innocent is not an acceptable substitute for punishing the guilty.

In Memphis, it is clear that the NCAA was determined to punish Memphis' program as much as possible due to some egregious violations it found in the program as a whole.  It did not say so, because it declared that it need not reach the matter of whether Rose cheated or not, but they clearly believed that Rose did cheat, and was determined to punish the school for that belief.  This was made more clear by their reaction to the Memphis appeal, in which they threatened to make the punishment even worse if Memphis got a break from the appellate group.  In the end, the NCAA used strict liability in the Memphis case in order to avoid having to reach the standard of proof required by it's own bylaws as to Rose's guilt or innocence, probably because it feared it could not reach that standard based on the available evidence.  So it just decided it didn't have to.

As far as Eric Bledsoe is concerned, the key is the qualifying document -- his high school transcript.  If that transcript is not changed officially, regardless of error or even wrongdoing on the part of a teacher or other person involved with its creation, the NCAA will not apply the strict liability doctrine.  That does not mean they will not fault Kentucky for carelessness if they find there should have been a reasonable basis for suspicion that was ignored, but absent that, unless the transcript is changed, Kentucky's 35 wins should be safe.

That is, if the NCAA were consistent.  But we have seen that is simply not the case, so the outcome, as usual, is anybody's guess.

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The Haters are gonna love you for this one Tru......

Good Job on the article. The critics are going to have a field day with it though.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Pitino: GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pitino, 40 if he would have stay @ KENTUCKY he would have a # of championship . RIGHT GUYS!!!!!!!!!

by oilliecat on Sep 22, 2010 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Good article, but I respectfully disagree with one statement.

This:

The NCAA member institution, along with the other members of the team, get punished for rulebreaking committed by a player or even third parties not connected with the school who are no longer under the NCAA’s jurisdiction, and who’s conduct often could not reasonably have been foreseen by the member institution.

It is wrongheaded, ineffective, and demonstrably does more harm than good.

Given that the NCAA has no law enforcement power, and cannot fine (or throw in the pokey) anyone that is no longer under its purview (ie, players in the NBA), it has very limited tools of punishment. So this is what it has.

I don’t believe that this punishment is really aimed at the school per se – it’s aimed at the FANS of that school. Nobody likes their school dragged through the mud; I’m willing to bet no UMass fan (assuming they exist) likes to be reminded that their season was vacated; and I’m damn sure no UK fan wants to see last year vacated.

So the idea is to foster an environment where cheating by your beloved program (whether that is by the program itself, by those associated with the program, or just by those who want to be associated with the program – players and others) is unacceptable. To wit, if everyone just decided the break the rules (or the law), the NCAA (or the police) has no hope of keeping it in check – amateur athletics (and the world in general) relies on a good deal of self-policing and “doing the right thing.”

Is vacating seasons always an appropriate or ideal punishment? Of course not. Does it always punish the truly guilty? Usually not. But it is a clear incentive for the fan community to keep those responsible on the straight and narrow, and to ask the appropriate questions of those that want to join the community. It’s not perfect, but it’s not as “wrongheaded” as you assert. (IMHO, of course)

It's summertime - go Reds!

by NYCCats on Sep 22, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

I think you have a valid point NYC.......which is why the NCAA must step up and do one of two things.

Either ramp up their activities, so that they can act faster and more decisively, including changing the way their clearinghouse does business, do not let cases drag out forever, etc. OR, throw the book away, rewritew the system and overhaul it so that it is more pertinent to today’s student-athlete, which is who they are supposed to exist to protect, not extort. (maybe extort is too strong a term there, maybe not). But they have to admit first that what they are doing does not work, then devise a plan from there, and they are not ready and willing to do that yet as far as I can tell.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

How does a fan base hold accountable those who have not knowingly done wrong? If great measure is taken to forge a transcript by a high school, then how could those “responsible” actually be responsible? Unless, of course, extensive interviews of all high school teachers, guidance counselors, etc. were conducted and all home work, tests, attendance, etc. were reviewed by the university.

by btblue34 on Sep 22, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You may be right.

I argue that punishing the innocent is no substitute for punishing the guilty.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm no legal mind, but I'm no fool either.

Tru, you are not only right, you are justifiably right. Excuse me but I have to say it: If our society still abided by the rules of our ancestors, the NCAA would be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

They have set themselves up as a bureaucracy and believe that they can make, break, change or establish rules with impunity. That’s how a bureaucracy works. The NCAA appears to have taken a page out of the IRS handbook.

The NCAA now appears to have embraced old mother England’s concept of justice.
One is a criminal, when accused of wrong doing, and guilty until proven innocent. Lovely
concept, if you like dictators.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sort of like

collateral damage in war.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 22, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

kywineman…Yep. I agree. That would appear to be the case.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

As long as we're throwing around legalistic concepts in latin...

I have a particular fondness for:

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

The principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty or the presumption of innocence

by TeamWeaver on Sep 22, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is not an NCAA concept.......proof or burden as it were with the NCAA is solely resting upon the

individual. The NCAA does not have to prove they are right, you have to prove them wrong.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That .......Greg

Righto ya be, matey. That’s how it’s done in jolly old England. And thousands of innocents have rotted in their prisons who were innocent. True, some of this has happened here in our country also. But it is not standard procedure in the USA.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which makes the NCAA that much more

of an anomaly.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 5:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Good article, but

I am not sure I agree with this statement either:

“No matter what the findings of the Alabama Athletic Association investigation, unless the school system invalidates the transcript that UK used to qualify him and replaces it with an amended one that would have rendered him an academic non-qualifier, Eric Bledsoe will not be declared academically ineligible.”

If it is clear a student athlete flunks his coursework, but the school is still willing to issue an offical transcript giving him As, I don’t know that the NCAA is stuck with it. You would hope a school district would have some integrity, but if it does not, it does raise an interesting question. What can the NCAA do if a school district says “screw it give him an A and maybe he will donate money to buy us a new gym someday.”

by Testudo1 on Sep 22, 2010 10:52 AM EDT reply actions  

The NCAA can do whatever it likes, it has proved that in the past 100 times over. But using the policy that

Tru lined out above, “strict liability” says that if Alabama does nothing, then the NCAA can do nothing.

They have to invalidate the document used to give Eric eligibility to cause the NCAA to act. Their rule, not ours. That was the reason that Tru, and any other sane person, finds the system to be flawed.

Last week everyone was using this argument against us, and now that Tru has pointed out that it can be used to hold the NCAA’s feet to the fire, people want to reverse course??

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

If Alabama does not act to amend the transcrip, it gives the NCAA a valid excuse not to act. But, I think the NCAA could act even in the absence of an amended transcript if it felt it was necessary to maintain some inegrity to its process (not that it would). Its the converse of not acting in the Cory Magette situation where there was a eligibility issue, but no consequence. Its inconsitent policy enforcement that feed legitimate perceptions of unfairness.
If the law firm investigation says he was eligible and the district adopts that position, I have trouble seeing any further action by the NCAA.

by Testudo1 on Sep 22, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Simplified........

The NCAA is like a beautiful woman… she can sleep (er.. bless) with who she wants to like Duke , Kansas, Roy boy… and the rest she just treats like dirt under her feet!!! I am sure there is some activity somewhere, by some high profile AD, under the surface we are not aware of that doesn’t want a “bunch of toothless hillbillies” to win the last game of the year. UK is taking the “cream of the crop” in recruits and it is only a matter of time before more NC’s are added to #7.

by Foxtrail1 on Sep 22, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Foxtrail1…..Man, you ought to be ashamed of youself. Bringing the most penalized school (Kansas) and the “Dukes of Dixie”, (NC and Puke) into account. Why those guys
wouldn’t do anything underhanded. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NCAA.....Greg

Man, if Alabama won’t cooperate, “There’ll Be A Hot Time In The Old Town Tonight.” And it won’t be “The Alabama Jubilee.” LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NCAA ...

… is not in a position to tell the school system how to grade their students.

It is patently outside their jurisdiction. They depend upon school systems to tell them if the sudent passed or failed, just as they depend on ETS to monitor the validity of the exams.

They did not examine ETS’s due process requirements, if they have any, to see if they passed muster by comparison to their own. The reason is simple — it is outside their area of competence.

Same with the nuts high school grades. It’s simply not their area of competence, except at the 50,000 foot view where they can decertify certain schools. They cannot just decertify a particular school for a particular case.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

3rd para. "nuts" should read "nuts and bolts of"

Got sidetracked. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you may have gotten it right the first time.

I may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they're not out to get me.

by UKCat on Sep 22, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think at this point, its all up in the air

The NCAA never seems to truly rely on precedent and therefore the predictive value is low.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Sep 22, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

UCLA In 1980

Their FF was vacted because 2 ineligible players were used. Don’t remember details?

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 22, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, that's true.

I read the public report. There was a ton of wrongdoing involved, but the public reports those days were pretty sketchy, not the detailed, quasi-legal things they are now.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

All FF Vacated (Over The Years)

Vacated Final Four appearances:

1961 – Saint Joseph’s vacated their Final Four appearance due to players’ involvement in a point-shaving scandal.
1971 – Villanova vacated their NCAA tournament victories after it was discovered that tournament MOP Howard Porter had signed a pro contract with an ABA team during the season.
1971 – Western Kentucky vacated after it was found that Jim McDaniels had signed a pro contract to play for an ABA team and accepted money during the season.
1980 – UCLA vacated its participation in the Final Four due to the use of ineligible players.
1985 – Memphis State’s (now Memphis) Final Four appearance was vacated due to using ineligible players, as were all NCAA tournament appearances from 1982-1986.
1992 & 1993 – Michigan vacated the results of 114 games won while four players, Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and Louis Bullock were not eligible, including both Final Fours.1 For more details, see University of Michigan basketball scandal.
1996 – Massachusetts Final Four appearance was vacated due to Marcus Camby signing with an agent during the season.
1997 – Minnesota vacated their Final Four appearance and many of their games between 1996 and 1999 due to their use of ineligible players who had school work completed by school assistants.
1999 – Ohio State vacated their Final Four appearance as punishment for the actions of former coach Jim O’Brien.
2008 – Memphis vacated their entire season, including Final Four, after the NCAA declared Derrick Rose ineligible after discovering that another person had taken his SAT.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 22, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

If the Alabama school board upholds Bledsoe’s transcript, then can/will the NCAA act on the “amateurism” aspect that the NYT raised, i.e., the alleged acceptance of rent and other benefits to induce Bledsoe to transfer to a particular Birmingham high school?

by BCinVA on Sep 22, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Who knows?

If there is an amateurism violation, I think they surely will act. But I think that ship has largely sailed.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is the Clearinghouse

The NCAA is telling programs to go by what the Clearinghouse is telling them. When that information is wrong, it falls back on the program.

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 22, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

As I said ...

… the Clearinghouse isn’t really what it’s name suggests. It is merely a threshold organization to which you present evidence of eligibility, and assuming they find nothing wrong with it, eligibility is granted.

If you think about it, the Clearinghouse goes pretty much by what others are telling them unless those things raise questions. If they don’t raise any, then no questions are asked.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 22, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

must the clearinghouse change it's role in the future to clear the waters so to speak, or is this going to go on

until the schools finally scream enough at the top of their lungs?

I just dont understand the purpose of even having the clearinghouse if it cannot give a definitive answer on who is eligible and who is not.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 22, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about the "Clearinghouse"

All the Clearinghouse does is say assuming all of the information submitted to the NCAA is accurate and there are not material ommissions, the kid is eligible. If something is false, misleading or ommitteed, then all bets are off. The NCAA can’t possibly verify the information it is provided by the thousands of student athletes every year. That burden has to fall back on the kid and the risk is really on the school. its impractical to do it any other way.

by Testudo1 on Sep 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Testudo1

Looks like we have a new member. Welcome to ASoB!

Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!

by oldcat73 on Sep 22, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about all of the indiscretions commited by the NCAA and their hooligans? They just raise their arms and shrug their shoulders and say,“Oh well, boys will be boys.”

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat blue again,
We have the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again!

by alwaysblue on Sep 22, 2010 5:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not a big fan of

the NCAA, but we must reflect on the association’s purpose and design. That is to bring some level of order to intercollegiate sports, with a hope that all games/meets/etc. are conducted on a level playing field. Universities volunteer to be members and to abide by the rules established by the universities’ representatives. While the NCAA can create rules, it is ill-equipped to enforce them due to a lack of ability to compell the presentation of evidence. Therefore, principal enforcement is left to the universities themselves who are first responsible to ensure that athletes are eligible under the rules to participate. NCAA committees tasked with investigation (using limited full time staff) and ruling on issues are staffed by volunteers who have other full time positions within member institutions. Since the membership of the committees change over time, rulings are inconsistent and appear to be unfair when viewed cross-sectionally since new members do not feel compelled to follow the precedent of predecessors.

The biggest problem is in the design of the system and process. I sure wouldn’t want to serve given that problem.

by jdogblue on Sep 22, 2010 6:53 PM EDT reply actions  

The problem is us

UK can no longer recruit marginal students. The basketball program is too much in the limelight. The UK office of compliance needs to be beefed up. It should have caught the fact that Bledso’s transcript looked dicey. The coaching staff should have been warned and told not to recruit him. The same can be said for Enes. His scholarship should be revoked and we all should wish him well in the NBA. Otherwise a reporter will find out that a booster stuck a few hundred bucks in his pocket over in Turkey and we will loose a second season of wins in addition to those we loose because of Eric. A closer look should also be considered for Anthony Davis. It is rumored that his father was shopping him around to the tune of 200K. So take away his offer. Reporters will continue to follow these individuals and try to dig up dirt. And they will succeed thereby triggering furthur NCAA scrutiny. The long and short of this is that we can’t win. So we need to be a lot more conservative in our recruiting. UNC and Duke generally stay out of trouble because they look closely at not only grades but at the families and backgrounds of individuals they recruit. They dont take a lot of chances and I think thats one reason Duke caught a break a few yrs ago with Cory Maggette. Uk is not going to get those breaks because of Coach C and our past history. We never learn!

by LKAT on Sep 22, 2010 8:53 PM EDT reply actions  

BS!!!

That is the most wimping out post I have ever read. Embrace the mediocrity.

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 22, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where in the world

Have you been? The compliance office DID take a hard look at Bledsoe. They even asked the NCAA clearing house to look into his record a second time. Did you not know that Billy G was recruiting Bledsoe before he was axed? As for Enes, his eligibility hasn’t even been decided yet and this is virgin territory for the NCAA with the new rule about foreign players. There are very good reasons to believe the Turkish team he played for wouldn’t mind forging a few documents here and there. Hopefully Enes’ father kept meticulous records as has been reported previously. As far as Anthony Davis, don’t you know that there are always rumors about all the top players? How else do you think coaches are trying to scare away other coaches who are interested in the players they themselves are trying to land?
  You are acting as if we have already had wins vacated. As of now, IT HASN’T HAPPENED!!!!!

by craftyno1catfan on Sep 22, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very good point -- not popular but valid

LKAT, I’m without question a minority on this but agree with your premise. UK can recruit anyone. There should be no need to worry each off season if the previous year is in jeopardy because of players that need an A in Alegbra 3 just to make eligibility. As Tru clearly points out, you can not count on the NCAA to be fair, impartial, or consistent. It’s up to the school to ensure they don’t give the NCAA a chance to work their Judge Roy Bean vision of justice.

by Chris Choate on Sep 22, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

very good point -- not popular but valid

LKAT, I’m without question a minority on this but agree with your premise. UK can recruit anyone. There should be no need to worry each off season if the previous year is in jeopardy because of players that need an A in Alegbra 3 just to make eligibility. As Tru clearly points out, you can not count on the NCAA to be fair, impartial, or consistent. It’s up to the school to ensure they don’t give the NCAA a chance to work their Judge Roy Bean vision of justice.

by Chris Choate on Sep 22, 2010 10:55 PM EDT reply actions  

NCAA

Like i said read between the LInes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by oilliecat on Sep 23, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

where in the world

THE UK office of compliance did not do a good job in evaluating Erics transcripts. You or I could have looked at them and saw the potential problems. This is not rocket science and it does not make any difference that the NCAA cleared him. Our Compliance group should have detected this problem. And of course I want Enes and Anthony to play for UK. Its just that we are in such a fishbowl with Coach Cal. The media and rival coaches could have cared less when Tubby or Billy were our coaches. With Coach Cal its a diiferent story. I have never seen such downright meaness and venom directed at any basketball coach except for Bobby Knight and he deserved it. So, I think we need to be a lot more careful in our recruiting-if i am a whimp, so be it. I agree the NCAA has taken no action but if it does we become the 2nd winningest basketball program of all time and the 3rd(?) school to reach 2000 wins. Not the legacy we were looking for!

by Lcat on Sep 23, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

The problem is

The media will be able to manufacture (with the aid of other coaches) stories about ANY of the top recruits leaving second-tier players as our only option, exactly what the other coaches want. I do agree that we should put more money into our compliance department, maybe even hiring outside firms in questionable cases like Bledsoes’, but we still have to go for the talent. Last year was the most fun-to-watch team we have had in a very long time and I just don’t want to give that up for the mediocrity of the previous 4-5 years. As for pronouncing judgement on our compliance department, that is premature. It is not uncommon at all for a kid to improve his academic performance when he finally realizes what is at stake and has as his night principal said had teachers and administrators holding his feet to the fire. It happens all the time. I’m sure the compliance office has seen it many many times. That is why they took a very long look at Bledsoes’ record and asked the NCAA for a more thorough review. Until we know the whole story let’s wait to criticize them. Right now it just plays into the hands of those who want to bring KY down.

by craftyno1catfan on Sep 23, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to worry

The NCAA is not a legal body, though it is subject to some legal constraints. It has lawyers to make sure someone can’t sue them, which Tarkanian did successfully re due process, and Tom Jones of Alabama did successfully re defamation (officially settled).

The NCAA clearly has issues with Calipari, and while they bend over backwards to avoid assigning him any personal culpability, they have an established track record of hammering his employers.

But in this case there’s just no evidence. ETS disallowed Rose’s SAT score, preventing the NCAA from having to make a judgment call — retroactive ineligibility is a yes/no, not a gray area. Unless the Alabama investigation results in an official change to Bledsoe’s transcript, nothing comes of this.

The 1 thing to fear — the people around Bledsoe had valid personal reasons to make sure he went to a school like Kentucky and then on to NBA riches, because his alternatives were pretty bleak. Changing his transcript back, however, hurts no one but Kentucky. Even then, I doubt anything comes of it.

They’re too busy with UNC football and Tennessee in general.

by heelsgot6 on Sep 23, 2010 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

What is the NCAA?

We talk about the NCAA like it is some foreign governement imposing its will upon us, but it is made up entirely of the member universities and their athletic departments. The members can change the rules and enforcement policy anytime they want if they want to eliminate these kinds of disputes.

The NCAA is an attractive “whipping boy” on whom we can take out our frutstrations, but its policies and behavior is exactly what is wanted by its member universities. If the lawyers and management people in the NCAA were out of line with the wishes of the membership, they will hear about it and be directed to back off. Which may be why there has been inconsitent enforcement of the rules over time.

by Testudo1 on Sep 24, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

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