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Kentucky Basketball: Greg Doyell On John Calipari And The Anthony Davis Accusations

The irrepressible Gregg Doyell strikes again, this time in an interview with Larry Glover on Larry Glover Live.  As usual, Doyel is lively, irreverent and opinionated.  The podcast of the segment talking about Calipari is here.

Here are some of the interesting parts about Kentucky.

  • In a response to Glover about how UK is perceived, Doyell said he was really harsh on Tubby Smith when he was coach at UK and Doyell was actually covering college basketball for CBS rather than writing opinion pieces like he does now.  He said that fan hate mail made it harder for writers to like the Big Blue Nation.
  • In re:  Chicago Sun-Times second story, Doyell said, "Unless the Sun-Times' reporter is Woodward or Bernstein, there is no way they got three different D-I coaches to say anything like that."  He went on further to say that Gary Parrish, Jeff Goodman, Andy Katz and Mike DeCourcy could not get three D-I coaches to "tell them on or off the record about that level of cheating," and there was no way that a Chicago reporter could, either.
  • Doyell believes that Michael O'Brien (whom he says he does not know at all) is "tied to the University of Illinois," and that, "...if anybody is behind this, [Illinois head coach Bruce] Weber is behind it."  His reasoning?  Weber "...doesn't lose very well, and he unfortunately loses recruits left and right.  Nobody loses more recruits than Bruce Weber.  That oughta be on his Coat of Arms."

    Doyel went on to say that he thinks Weber is a bad recruiter "...because frankly, he's a dork."  He thinks that Weber fed something to O'Brien, and O'Brien ate it up.
  • Doyell thinks Calipari is fair game in the sense that he had two Final Fours vacated, but does not believe that Calipari knew anything about Marcus Camby at UMass or Derrick Rose at Memphis.  According to Doyell, "Until otherwise proven, I believe in Cal."
  • Doyell does not believe it is possible for Calipari to cheat at the level his accusers claim.  He compares it to the conspiracy theories about the U.S. Government's alleged secret labs investigating alien encounters:  "His [Calipari's] nickname aught to be Area 51. ... There are some secrets that are so enormous that they couldn't possibly be kept. ... Same with Calipari.  For twenty years, If he was as dirty as everybody wants to say his, at the level he's won at, he would be out."

There is much more in this interview worth listening to, and there are parts that I have not included that were both funny and enlightening.  You really should listen to the whole thing.

I'll have further thoughts on this after the jump.

Star-divide

First of all, I think Doyell's comments on this point are right on the money, and accurately reflect my feelings about Coach Cal.  The vacated Final Fours are the main weapons of his detractors, and because of the broad reaching and enormous impact of vacating a successful NCAA tournament run and the implication that the team only got to that point by cheating, that will never change. 

It is also true that many college sports fans have irrationally decided to blame the coach for unethical actions by their players when it comes to NCAA rules violations, but ignore unethical and illegal actions by players who wind up in trouble with the law as commentary on a coach's leadership or character. To wit:

ESPN college football analyst Jesse Palmer, who played quarterback at Florida from 1997 until 2000, defended Meyer in an interview with the Orlando Sentinel.

"[Urban] can't be out at the clubs at 1 a.m. monitoring these guys," Palmer told the Sentinel. "I think it's an internal accountability issue where these players might think they are invincible after the national title. Everybody's patting them on the back and you feel like you can do anything."

Indeed.  Yet if these were NCAA improprieties, I guarantee you there would be a line from Gainesville to Los Angeles of people anxious to call for Meyer's head. It is as though cheating in life is not as bad as cheating on sports.  A strange commentary on our society, in my view. 

But back to Doyell's comments.  I offer no opinion on his view that Bruce Weber was at least one of the people behind the accusations by O'Brien, except to say that it has the benefit of being logical.  I don't know enough about Weber to have an opinion on Doyell's judgment of him as a "dork" or a lousy recruiter, but he does seem to lose a lot of high-profile recruiting battles, and it's likely that makes him frustrated and possibly even vindictive.

Be that as it may, I will promise you this, as I have before:  College coaches are not going to sit still and let Calipari take his pick of the litter every year from the top 25 -- they just aren't.  If you want to see this as the beginnings of a push-back against Coach Cal, I would say that you are looking at it correctly.

It will not stop there, however.  If Calipari starts winning national championships, there will be an organized effort by opposing coaches to stop him, using the NCAA or any other means necessary.  Some will eschew such tactics, but there will be many, and some of them will be powerful, who will stop at nothing to derail the Calipari express, ethics be damned.  They will convince themselves that Calipari must be cheating, and therefore, anything goes. 

It will happen.  Take it to the bank.  You have been warned.

Comment 257 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Bingo

and rec’d

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 1, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

actual proof required

I think saying Weber is the source makes as much sense as saying A.Davis is taking money. I could believe that a big-time recruit out of a corrupt city could be asking for a “signing bonus”. But until there is legitimate evidence, I am not going to believe it. Weber is a whiner, probably not a good coach, and is only succeeding in recruiting due to Jerrance Howard (who has ties to William Wesley). Doyel provides no evidence for his claim, so I’m not going to believe it until there is more evidence.

by doldham on Sep 1, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

concur

Spot on.

It isn’t right to accuse someone of wrongdoing with nothing more than a vague idea that he is a whiner and a bad recruiter.

by jeffy on Sep 1, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair ...

… Doyell knows Weber far better than any of us do. College basketball was his beat for 8 years.

I consider his opinion informed by that knowledge.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doyel is my favorite writer

Just because he speaks his mind and doesn’t care what people think.

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 1, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll Give Him "Credit" For That

He writes whatever he wants, regardless of accuracy or facts.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pffft

And Geoff Calkins know Cal better than any of us. So, by your reasoning we should give his rants serious consideration?

Come now. Rumor-mongering is rumor-mongering. You can’t fall into the trap of calling it “informed opinion” when the point of view coincides with yours, and calling it ill-informed and slanderous when the point of view differs with yours.

Before you call someone out, by name, you need to have a little more proof than what he shares.

by jeffy on Sep 1, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is no rumor-mongering here.

He has given an opinion. Your mileage may vary.

One does not need proof to offer an opinion.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

and calkins offers his freely....

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Sep 1, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then it is time

to stop slamming the Calipari detractors. Who are offering “opinions”.

by jeffy on Sep 2, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do what you want.

There is a difference, in my view, from between an irrational opinion having demonstrable non-support and an opinion having one that is at least plausible.

Your mileage may vary

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plausible

Calipari gets all the top-flight recruits.

Therefore it is plausible that he is cheating.

There is not an iota of difference between what you deride, on the one hand, and what you are supporting on the other.

by jeffy on Sep 2, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

…There is a difference when you have multiple situations arguing for an opinion, and only one.

Your argument contains only one bit of evidence. Doyell’s contains many.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely ridiculous

But, I’m not going to continue. You seem dead-set to hold to your guns. Trouble is, your powder is soaking wet.

Cheers and adios

by jeffy on Sep 2, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever.

Adios.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 3, 2010 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree.

Weber may be a whiny punk (I say without personal knowledge or opinion), but that isn’t enough to suggest he was defaming Davis without any proof. I think Doyell may be making informed speculation, but even that is wrong when you are speculating about something that is very negative, like accusing someone of defaming a kid’s family to a reporter.

by JackBluto on Sep 1, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea about Weber.

I do know this. Weber has motive and opportunity.

In the legal profession, that is often enough for an accusation.

The facts are these:

  • “Sources” from three universities allegedly told O’Brien that Davis was soliciting payoffs, and that UK had offered a payoff.
  • The coaching staffs from these universities have the most to gain from the fallout of such a claim.
  • Coaches have frequently stabbed each other in the back recruiting-wise.
  • Weber has lost a number of recruits to Calipari and Kentucky, including Derrick Rose, DeAndre Liggins, Darrius Miller, and now Anthony Davis.
  • The author is a writer in Illinois who is likely closest to Illinois schools.

None of this proves anything. What it does is suggest that:

  • The sources of the rumors are from schools in Illinois, which would include UI and DePaul
  • The sources are most likely motivated by either a desire to tell the truth, or a desire to harm the interests of Kentucky and Calipairi.

All of these things taken together, plus the fact that Doyell knows Weber, are sufficient basis to form a suspicion.

As to whether he should have voiced that opinion, well, I think you’re right. He probably should not have. I know I wouldn’t have.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe semantics...

… but I would feel better if he simply said “I suspect someone at Illinois for all these reasons [what you said].” He goes beyond that to me. It is the kind of thing that upsets us when done to Cal. I think we should be consistent here.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that's right.

But keep in mind, I did not agree with his assessment. I simply said, and still say, that it passes the test of reason, and is not wildly improbable nor without basis in reality.

I would not have made that claim without more support. Perhaps he has some, but he did not share it, and that would have stopped me from saying such a thing.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, I'm not arguing that along with other evidence, I might not be persuaded by the logic.

But I disagree with even printing it without some actual evidence.

Motive and opportunity are how we identify suspects. Not what we rely upon (alone) to indict.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

… Keep in mind that motive and opportunity are two critical pieces of the puzzle. There is additional circumstantial evidence that exists, i.e. proximity, a claim by a reporter that three sources from “three separate universities” told the Sun-Times that Davis was on the take.

It is not unreasonable to assume that every one of those universities was in Illinois. It is not unreasonable to assume that every one of those universities is a Division I school, since they are the only ones likely to recruit Davis.

There are, in fact, 13 division I schools in Illinois. Of them, there are only four who have a profile high enough to be considered by Anthony Davis: Illinois, DePaul, SIU, and Loyola of Chicago.

I would argue that there is therefore a high probability, since this reporter does have at least a professional relationship with Weber, that one of those sources was at the University of Illinois. In fact, I would argue the probability is at minimum 1 in 4.

It is not a slam dunk, of course, but it is certainly very likely, since Illinois along with DePaul are two schools who were actively recruiting Davis and had reason to be unhappy, and would have been the first places a reporter would go to try to get a story like that.

Logically, there is a high probability that someone from Illinois was a source. It is also logical to assume that person was connected with the basketball program. It is reasonably unlikely, but certainly possible, that such a person would have intimated such damning information without the knowledge and/or approval of the head coach.

This really isn’t that difficult. There are a lot of assumptions, sure, but the case is certainly there. It is equally possible that it was DePaul, or some other DI Illinois school. But if Doyell already dislikes Weber, which he clearly does, it makes sense that he would consider him a more likely source than others.

Ipso facto.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of these arguments...

… are a rehash of “motive” and “opportunity.”

None of them are evidence.

So I guess my comment is the same as above.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

… I consider it more along the lines of “speculative evidence,” but I certainly would not try to defend it in a court of law (although I expect people have been indicted with less than this).

At the end of the day, I think we agree more than disagree. I would not have made a claim like Doyell did purely on the connections I pointed out above. Doyell, apparently, felt comfortable with it, and it is logically defensible if not supportable by actual evidence.

I thought it was interesting and worthy of comment. Judging from the number of comments received, I think I was right about that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 3, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Facts

Bruce Weber is also regarded as one of the cleanest coaches in the country by most media sources as well as his peers. But you’re right the opinion of Doyell definitely holds more weight than that.

by dd158723 on Sep 2, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

… Roy Williams is also considered one of the cleanest, even though he demonstrably is not.

Perception does not always jibe with reality.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a fair comment about Weber's recruiting prowess

After all, he did win the second Alex Legion derby. . . ;-)

It's summertime - go Reds!

by NYCCats on Sep 1, 2010 4:16 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

NYCCats

Mabye so, but he “won” a quitter.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 1, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

never understood how he wound up there

I live in Champaign right now, and it took only a few months for him to go from savior to team cancer around here.

by doldham on Sep 1, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Legion was

just another thumbsucker who pulled out when he couldn’t have his way. Like a lot of other pampered kids, from pre-junior high through high school. A constant dose of,
“Man you will be in the NBA someday.”, will do the trick.

Let’s face it. The college ranks these days are full of young men like this. It makes a coache’s job almost unbearable. Especially trying to recruit. Some may think that I’m being brutally cruel, but no, I’m only being brutally honest.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 1, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

zing!

and the RR rec train comes to you on ASOB

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 1, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks, coop

Rec’s are tossed around here like manhole covers

It's summertime - go Reds!

by NYCCats on Sep 2, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks,

Well be careful and don’t step in one. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

U Of IL Recruiting Last 3 Years

AND they lead for 6-2 PG Chasson Randle of Rock Island IL too.

WG Joseph Bertrand 2009 Sterling
Sterling, IL Illinois
PF Tyler Griffey 2009 Lafayette
Wildwood, MO Illinois
PG Brandon Paul 2009 Warren Township
Gurnee, IL Illinois
WG D.J. Richardson 2009 Findlay Prep
Henderson, NV Illinois
WG Crandall Head 2010 Rich South
Richton Park, IL Illinois
C Meyers Leonard 2010 Robinson
Robinson, IL Illinois
WF Jereme Richmond 2010 Waukegan
Waukegan, IL Illinois
PG Tracy Abrams 2011 Mount Carmel
Chicago, IL Illinois
C Nnanna Egwu 2011 St. Ignatius
Chicago, IL Illinois
WF Mychael Henry 2011 Orr
Chicago, IL Illinois

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jesse Palmer has it right. Does he ever! There is no way a coach can, nor should he be
expected, to take these young “men” and lead them around by the hand.

They are responsible for their own conduct as adults. If I’m not mistaken, every state has an adult age for young people. I think it is 18 in most states. In some it may be higher.

The bottom line is, accepting the responsibility for one’s actions. Even 10 year old’s should be taught this. It will save them a truckload of problems in their lives.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 1, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Gregg Doyel Is An Idiot

And that’s being polite.

Weber has done a fine job at U of IL whether recruiting or coaching.

Tubby had his fault(s) but won 76% of his games at UK, 72% of his NCAA gamesm 1 NCAA title, 4 Elite 8, 6 Sweet 16, 5 SEC titles, and 5 SECT championships in 10 years at UK. Those numbers are consistent with UK basketball history.

His fault(s) included only 1 F4 (UK averages 2 FF per 10 seasons) and others.

16 of his UK players (some recruited by him, some by his predecessor) either made the NBA or got drafted by NBA (or both).

Calipari is OF COURSE a better recruiter than Tubby or any other UK coach, even Joe Hall. His results should exceed every other UK coach but Adolph Rupp.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Being an idiot in general does not make him wrong on this one Forty.

And I do not claim that Weber has not done a decent job, however, the results have been somewhat indifferent. Any claims concerning Tubby not withstanding.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 1, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

It May Not BUT HE IS WRONG On Both

Weber took Illinois farther (NC game) than they had been in a long LONG time. He had 37 W that season.

His recruiting in Illinois has been very good. He doesn’t get them all but Illinois has tons of Div I caliber players.

And he’s wrong on Tubby, too. Tubby IS NOT perfect and had his fault(s). But UK is 75-30 (71%) since he left. Only 3-2 (60%) in NCAA games. 1 Elite 8 in 3 years. 1 SEC title, 1 SECT championship in 3 years. Improved PERCEPTION but not NUMBERS yet.

Calipari will greatly exceed those numbers, I think.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dont get me wrong I appreciate your standing up for Weber, but his results at

Illinois dont lend themselves to basketball greatness. The Tubby argument ahs always been one of substance over style. And I am on your side of the Tubby coin. But something about this stuff with the Davis situation reeks of a jealous Big Ten Coach…..and I was thinking along those lines before Doyel spoke out

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 1, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You May Not Be Familiar With Illini History

But Weber is better than the average Illini coach. In past 60 years, only Self is as good or better there.

Illinis was never mentioned with Davis as even a possibility.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here U Go

Harry Combes (1947–1967)
1947 - 48 Harry Combes 15 - 5 7 - 5 3rd(T)
1948 - 49 Harry Combes 21 - 4 10 - 2 1st NCAA 3rd Place
1949 - 50 Harry Combes 14 - 8 7 - 5 3rd(T)
1950 - 51 Harry Combes 22 - 5 13 - 1 1st NCAA 3rd Place
1951 - 52 Harry Combes 22 - 4 12 - 2 1st NCAA 3rd Place
1952 - 53 Harry Combes 18 - 4 14 - 4 2nd
1953 - 54 Harry Combes 17 - 5 10 - 4 3rd(T)
1954 - 55 Harry Combes 17 - 5 10 - 4 2nd(T)
1955 - 56 Harry Combes 18 - 4 11 - 3 2nd
1956 - 57 Harry Combes 14 - 8 7 - 7 7th
1957 - 58 Harry Combes 11 - 11 5 - 9 8th(T)
1958 - 59 Harry Combes 12 - 10 7 - 7 5th(T)
1959 - 60 Harry Combes 16 - 7 8 - 6 3rd(T)
1960 - 61 Harry Combes 9 - 15 5 - 9 7th
1961 - 62 Harry Combes 15 - 8 7 - 7 4th(T)
1962 - 63 Harry Combes 20 - 6 11 - 3 1st(T) NCAA Elite Eight
1963 - 64 Harry Combes 13 - 11 6 - 8 6th(T)
1964 - 65 Harry Combes 18 - 6 10 - 4 3rd
1965 - 66 Harry Combes 12 - 12 8 - 6 3rd(T)
1966 - 67 Harry Combes 12 - 12 6 - 8 7th(T)
Harry Combes: 316 - 150 174 - 104
Harv Schmidt (1967–1974)
1967 - 68 Harv Schmidt 11 - 13 6 - 8 7th(T)
1968 - 69 Harv Schmidt 19 - 5 9 - 5 2nd(T)
1969 - 70 Harv Schmidt 15 - 9 8 - 6 3rd(T)
1970 - 71 Harv Schmidt 11 - 12 5 - 9 5th(T)
1971 - 72 Harv Schmidt 14 - 10 5 - 9 8th(T)
1972 - 73 Harv Schmidt 14 - 10 8 - 6 3rd(T)
1973 - 74 Harv Schmidt 5 - 18 2 - 12 10th
Harv Schmidt: 89 - 77 43 - 55
Gene Bartow (1974–1975)
1974 - 75 Gene Bartow 8 - 18 4 - 14 9th(T)
Lou Henson (1975–1996)
1975 - 76 Lou Henson 14 - 13 7 - 11 7th(T)
1976 - 77 Lou Henson 16 - 14 8 - 10 6th
1977 - 78 Lou Henson 13 - 14 7 - 11 7th
1978 - 79 Lou Henson 19 - 11 7 - 11 7th
1979 - 80 Lou Henson 22 - 13 8 - 10 6th(T) NIT 3rd Place
1980 - 81 Lou Henson 21 - 8 12 - 6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1981 - 82 Lou Henson 18 - 11 10 - 8 6th NIT 2nd Round
1982 - 83 Lou Henson 21 - 11 11 - 7 2nd(T) NCAA 1st Round
1983 - 84 Lou Henson 26 - 5 15 - 3 1st(T) NCAA Elite Eight
1984 - 85 Lou Henson 26 - 9 12 - 6 2nd NCAA Sweet 16
1985 - 86 Lou Henson 22 - 10 11 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1986 - 87 Lou Henson 23 - 8 13 - 5 4th NCAA 1st Round
1987 - 88 Lou Henson 23 - 10 12 - 6 3rd(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1988 - 89 Lou Henson 31 - 5 14 - 4 2nd NCAA Final Four
1989 - 90 Lou Henson 21 - 8 11 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1990 - 91 Lou Henson 21 - 10 11 - 7 3rd(T)
1991 - 92 Lou Henson 13 - 15 7 - 11 8th
1992 - 93 Lou Henson 19 - 13 11 - 7 3rd(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1993 - 94 Lou Henson 17 - 11 10 - 8 4th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1994 - 95 Lou Henson 19 - 12 10 - 8 5th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1995 - 96 Lou Henson 18 - 13 7 - 11 9th NIT 1st Round
Lou Henson: 423 - 224 214 - 164
Lon Kruger (1996–2000)
1996 - 97 Lon Kruger 22 - 10 11 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1997 - 98 Lon Kruger 23 - 10 13 - 3 1st(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1998 - 99 Lon Kruger 14 - 18 3 - 13 11th
1999 - 00 Lon Kruger 22 - 10 11 - 5 4th NCAA 2nd Round
Lon Kruger: 81 - 48 38 - 28
Bill Self (2000–2003)
2000 - 01 Bill Self 27 - 8 13 - 3 1st(T) NCAA Elite Eight
2001 - 02 Bill Self 26 - 9 11 - 5 1st(T) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002 - 03 Bill Self 25 - 7 11 - 5 2nd NCAA 2nd Round
Bill Self: 78 - 24 35 - 13
Bruce Weber (2003–present)
2003 - 04 Bruce Weber 26 - 7 13 - 3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2004 - 05 Bruce Weber 37 - 2 15 - 1 1st NCAA Championship Game
2005 - 06 Bruce Weber 26 - 7 11 - 5 2nd(T) NCAA 2nd round
2006 - 07 Bruce Weber 23 - 12 9 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 1st Round
2007 - 08 Bruce Weber 16 - 19 5 - 13 9th(T)
2008 - 09 Bruce Weber 24 - 10 11 - 7 2nd(T) NCAA 1st Round
2009 - 10 Bruce Weber 21 - 15 10 - 8 5th NIT Quaterfinals
Bruce Weber: 173 - 72 74 - 44

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look Forty This is all I am saying

If I am searching for a coach, I pass Weber every time. He just does not have that “close the deal” instinct that I want in my coaches. Now, for a point that is really going to upset you, this is the very same issue that some people had with Tubby. They felt like he couldnt close the deal on recruits. I am not saying it is necessarily true, but that is the perception.I could care less how good or bad Illinois is……

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 1, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Did Very Well At SIU And Now At Illinois

One of the Top 20 coaching records (by NCAA stats) in Div I hoops.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here U go

Man, a lot of work for nothing and the working of an extremely egotistical mind.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well ...

… That is absolutely, inarguably, and in all other ways wrong.

Davis, who is now considered to be the No. 7 player in the nation, has seen his offer list grow dramatically since his arrival onto the national scene. Syracuse, Ohio State, Illinois, Memphis, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin, Purdue, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame are among the schools that have offered to this point.

It is not credible to suggest Bruce Weber was not recruiting a highly-ranked player out of Chicago. If that were true, he would be guilty of absolute incompetence, and even Doyell isn’t accusing him of that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But He Wasn't A Real Possibility For U of IL

The last 2 recruits in 2011 should be Mike Shaw of Chicago DeLaSalle and Chasson Randle of Rock Island.

WG Crandall Head 2010 Rich South
Richton Park, IL Illinois
C Meyers Leonard 2010 Robinson
Robinson, IL Illinois
WF Jereme Richmond 2010 Waukegan
Waukegan, IL Illinois

PG Tracy Abrams 2011 Mount Carmel
Chicago, IL Illinois
C Nnanna Egwu 2011 St. Ignatius
Chicago, IL Illinois
WF Mychael Henry 2011 Orr
Chicago, IL Illinois

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

You have no support for your first sentence.

At least I have support for mine.

The rest of your comment may have some relevance, but I’m not quite sure what it is.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah boy. We did real good under the two year nightmare of Billy Drunk.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 1, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Doyel

Because he tells it like he sees it without pretense. I don’t agree with him a lot of the time, but I respect him for not sugar coating things

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good article-

I copied it and will take it to work to get opinions from my Illinois co-workers. In my view, Illinois is falling farther and farther down the basketball landscape every year. It could very well be that Weber is a sore loser and is disgusted with UK’s recruiting prowess and his lack of…

"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"

by iam4ukintn on Sep 1, 2010 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

And Forty-

I think the only truly great team Weber had, was inherited from Bill Self…

"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"

by iam4ukintn on Sep 1, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I tihnk that's right.

Weber is a good coach, but he has had many huge recruiting losses, a couple of the most painful of them to Calipari.

I think that matters, and while Forty is free to dislike Doyell and appreciate Weber, that doesn’t make Doyell wrong and Forty right. Doyell is likely to be far more familiar with Weber than Forty is. I’m not willing to come down on Doyell’s side, necessarily, but his opinion happens to be reasonable in light of the facts that I am personally aware of.

But I don’t know anything about Weber’s personality or his feelings toward Calipari. I only know that Calipari has beaten him out of a couple of big-time recruits, and Kentucky has hammered him as well. The combination of Cal and UK may be too much for Weber to stomach. That is a reasonable assessment based on real facts.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny note in that SI article you link

About Gillespie’s coming juggernaut at UK!

by BCinVA on Sep 1, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Yeah, I shook my head at that.

But there was really no reason to believe it wouldn’t happen. It just … didn’t, for reasons nobody really had a clue about.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Au contraire. Former coaches’ former behaviour doth follow them. We will, soon enough, learn “The rest of the story.” LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Doyell is expressing an opinion.

He is expressing a “fact” that is not yet known. Saying Doyell is a “sore loser” is an opinion. Saying he gave bad facts to a newspaper reporter b/c of a grudge against UK/Cal is speculating about facts. I think that is inappropriate speculation – like saying in your opinion Cal paid Davis off. That isn’t an opinion either. It is a statement of “fact” you claim to think is true without any evidence.

Doyell should have more evidence than “whiney sore loser” before making this allegation.

by JackBluto on Sep 1, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's quite right.

Doyell said, if you listen to the article, that he believed it was Weber behind it.

No matter how you try to spin that, it is an opinion. A belief. It is logical and entirely possible.

But I would not say such things without more than just motive and opportunity, no matter how compelling.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth Be Told

I know Bruce. A college classmate of mine was his neighbor many years in West Lafayette.

But I’m going solely on results. Weber did VERY well at SIU and ditto at Illinois.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay.

None of this means that Weber is above a little backstabbing.

Doyell did not say Weber could not coach, and if he had, I think most people would disagree. He is a good coach. But he is a questionable recruiter.

I’m just saying.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

His Results At U Of IL (Thanks To Jerrance Howard) Are Very Good

WG Joseph Bertrand 2009 Sterling
Sterling, IL Illinois
PF Tyler Griffey 2009 Lafayette
Wildwood, MO Illinois
PG Brandon Paul 2009 Warren Township
Gurnee, IL Illinois
WG D.J. Richardson 2009 Findlay Prep
Henderson, NV Illinois
WG Crandall Head 2010 Rich South
Richton Park, IL Illinois
C Meyers Leonard 2010 Robinson
Robinson, IL Illinois
WF Jereme Richmond 2010 Waukegan
Waukegan, IL Illinois
PG Tracy Abrams 2011 Mount Carmel
Chicago, IL Illinois
C Nnanna Egwu 2011 St. Ignatius
Chicago, IL Illinois
WF Mychael Henry 2011 Orr
Chicago, IL Illinois

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Recruiting

Bruce’s recruiting deficiencies over the last couple of years have been well documented. However, with recent year’s classes it does appear that he has righted that ship. Those years where Illinois’ classes were off the radar could be attributed to extenuating circumstances especially the Eric Gordon class. However, regardless of the past, Bruce appears to have improved his recruiting with last years class as well as this years and the ’11.

I like how you are gunho about Doyell’s claims despite the national media as a whole and other coaches around the country having a great respect for Bruce Weber as a coach and individual, in addition to them regarding him as one of the cleanest coaches in college hoops.

by dd158723 on Sep 2, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

2009 Was A Fine Class, Too

He signed (4) recruits in the Top 50-100 range in 2009.

2010 was better yet, and 2011 is excellent so far.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

which ranking service?

In 2009, only two of the recruits were top 100 in Rivals (#38 and #42), bracketing Jon Hood. The class itself was #14.
The 2010 class moved up to #13, but I think is significantly better in terms of players.
2011 is promising. The Illwhini faithful are nervous about Shaw, but fairly confident about Randle.

So when Illinois fans say thinks like “and according to ESPN, Rivals, etc last years class, this years class and next years are all top 10 classes!” (a representative example from a Scout board), they aren’t technically accurate, but close enough I suppose.

I’ll agree that Illinois is a good basketball program, but it is nowhere near the caliber that the locals think the program is.

by doldham on Sep 2, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not gung-ho about it.

I just said that it is not an implausible theory. I did not take a position agreeing with Doyell.

My entire commentary has been to defend the rationality of his comment, not the truth of it.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aren't reporters

Aren’t reporters supposed to have a higher standard of professionalism? Doyell’s comments are only based upon his personal conjecture. I understand the difference between making up a story and breaking a story. His whole view is a made up view of what he thinks may have happened. This whole sort of conjecture is something that school fans that post on message boards or have blogs can do and get away with. It’s not something a legitimate journalist for a national site should just throw out there because he has a “gut-feeling”. Without facts this is nothing more than an unprofessional blow to Bruce Weber and his program. How is this any better than Michael O’Brien’s unfounded story about Anthony Davis and his recruitment? Until sources come forward this is garbage.

by dd158723 on Sep 3, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doyel's not really a "reporter," though, is he?

I think of him more as an opinion writer. THe editorial page of the paper as opposed to the front, in other words. To my mind, he’s paid to provide provocative commentary that will get people talking and get hits to his employer’s website….mission accomplished, in other words. Now, would I be mad if his “provocative commentary” was slanted against Calipari? Of course. But that’s neither here nor there.

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 3, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doyel is me with real sources, less ethics, and a better paycheck.....lol

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

GAE, if you were a baseball player your batting average would be
.666. You got two out of three right. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK Forty. .66666666. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Truth...

Yep. And I lived in the same state as Nolan Ryan. Sooooooooooo?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weber

Longtime assistant at Purdue, then HC at SIU and Illinois.

Actually I’m quite a bit more familiar with his background than Gregg Doyel is.

I’ve known of Weber since the 1980’s. Doyel hasn’t. Simple as that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weber=Tubby?

They got to the mountain with other guys’ recruits but could never duplicate that success.

by bigbill992001 on Sep 1, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW,

when we speak of Weber, let’s not forget DePaul. That’s the last school A. Davis supposedly visited before he committed.

by bigbill992001 on Sep 1, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

See my discussion above.

There were three “sources” from different schools cited. It is logical to assume an Illinois writer would be well-connected among Illinois schools, and DePaul is one of them, who was also closely involved with Davis.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Even Close

Tubby has a far superior record in every respect than Weber does.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree with Forty here

Tubby is twice the coach that Weber is

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 1, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes and no

I think that is fair regarding how fans at UK and UI perceived these two coaches.

I feel there are some differences. I think Tubby would have shaken hands with Sampson. There is no way Tubby would have sent one of his players to shove Eric Gordon. Tubby never said “IU is going to suck”, or “Dickie V can take his Dukies and shove it”.

by doldham on Sep 2, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually Not So

He inherited the 2004 team from Self.

His best year was 2005 with a mixture of players from Self and his own.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he inherited all but the freshmen.

The argument remains.

Though frankly I don’t know anyone of importance in this conversation and don’t care all that much.

Just saying. :)

by JackBluto on Sep 1, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

But That IS Different

Did Roy Williams inherit his 2005 (2nd year) team from Matt Doherty?

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

My recollection is that the Illinois team is that it was senior lead. Those were inherited players.

My recollection about the UNC team is nothing, but I think they had significant freshman contributions. So in that regard, I think there would be a difference.

Consider UK last year. Yes, Cal inherited a bunch of players, including PPat. But it would inaccurate to say he inherited a 35-3 team from Billy G. His team was freshman (not inherited) dominated.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"

by iam4ukintn on Sep 2, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

UNC Had 1 Freshman (Marvin Williams) In 2005

The great majority of UNC players on that team were recruited by Doherty.

Same thing as others – Tubby, Weber, et all. The COACH deserves the credit, not the RECRUITER.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I said I didn't know, but Marvin Williams was pretty good.

The UNC fan friends I have are quite knowledgeable, and I never remember them saying that Doherty was considered a bad recruiter. They thought he was a lousy coach.

Also, I can’t recall if the sophomores on that UNC team should be given credit for being recruited by Doherty or Roy. It could go either way. EG, last year, Cal clearly gets credit for everyone except Orton and Hood b/c he was hired in time to recruit players. But overall, I agree the coach has to get credit.

Of course, sometimes, good coaches are even better with superior talent they might not be able to bring in on their own. Look at Bill Curry and Alabama.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Was 6th Man In 2005

A factor but hardly much more than that.

Williams should get credit for 2005 results, not Doherty.

But if you want to discredit Tubby (1998) or Weber (2005), then Williams is in the same boat.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not trying to discredit anyone.

I have no ax to grind over Weber. You clearly are out to defend him. That’s fine. I’m just saying that his team that made the NC game relied upon another coach’s recruits. To a degree, so did Roy in 2005, though like I said I don’t know who recruited his sophs.

Yes, this conversation could be about Tubby in ‘98. But I have no interest in debating Tubby. I hadn’t discovered this site back then and didn’t debate it with anyone. Besides, there is nothing to debate. He was a good coach who didn’t like the pressure and quit UK.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was here back then.

And, this thread is like déjà vu. A few names are different, both commenter’s and topic names, but it’s like I’ve lived this thread before. Many, many times.

Oh, and just a helpful hint, you know, since I’ve been through the Tubby-debate previously — when debating Tubby with Forty, you will not win. I repeat, you will not win, err, get in the last word. You won’t. You have been warned. ; )

by BigSkyCat on Sep 2, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

BigSkyCat

C’mon “Cat.” Surely you like a good fight once in a while. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

My...

+2

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tru,

if you’re right about coaches not letting Cal take his pick of the litter every year, then they are no better than the gangsters who have run Chicago from the 1930’s until now.

Some of them I wouldn’t put it past for a second, including the “dukes of dixie.” However
there are many that I cannot believe would stoop to that level. Mark Few among them.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 1, 2010 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Well ...

… Look at it from their point of view.

If they actually believe (or are able to convince themselves) that Calipari is cheating, it opens up a whole range of actions that they might not otherwise consider.

I’m not saying it’s ethical. I am saying it is human nature.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 1, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tru...

1) I’d say that your linked article is rather of a smoking gun to Weber’s recruiting head – Wow!

2) Doyell writes editorial opinion not factual news reporting. The standards with regard to sources and substantiation are totally different from those which should have been operable with the Sun-Times’ reporter. Doyell can say and/or write nearly anything about Weber and be well within recognized journalistic ethics.

3) The coaching profession seemed to accept the recruiting dominance of Duke and UNC for decades. Why would Kentucky’s success elicited a massed coaching conspiracy aimed at Calipari?

by TeamWeaver on Sep 2, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Yes, I must agree with that assessment. Human nature is the strongest of all desires. We are all subject to it.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Weber

One other colossal piece of irony in this discussion is that assistant coach BCG actually recruited several of the NC game IL players left over from Self . . . . maybe even Deron Williams. I’m not sure about Dee Brown or the big guy. IMO, Weber is not that great a coach.

by Big Blue Daddy on Sep 1, 2010 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Tru, your last paragraph was the most chilling.

Personally, I am not too worried about B.Weber or the supposed money that was paid to that player to come to UK. I am worried about the perception of Calipari, the NCAA’s ability to find fault where there is little or no fault, and the jealousy of other programs and coaches. I truly believe that Calipari’s extraordinary talent to recruit could cause problems for UK basketball whether we play within the NCAA rules or not. That being said, I love having Coach Cal at UK!! Go Cats!!

by UKTimmy on Sep 2, 2010 1:24 AM EDT reply actions  

It is a real possibility ...

… and it will be driven by opposing coaches.

No coach since Wooden has recruited like Calipari. Unlike Wooden, Calipari is not perceived as a golden boy.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

Wooden is the best college coach ever in any sport. No one else even comes close.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

Give me a break!!! Wooden couldn’t carry Adolph Rupp’s shoes to the shower. And he had twice the talent that Adolph did. He should have won 10 NCAA titles. One of my most enjoyable years (I don’t remember the year) was when U of L knocked their
buns out of the NCAA tournament. There’s no way Denny’s Cardinals should have beaten them. There was “a hot time in the old town that night.”

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Even Close

Wooden > Rupp or any other college basketball coach.

10 NC, 12 FF > 4 NC, 6 FF.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greg didn't say anything about Wooden's greatness - only his "saintliness."

I would have to agree that Wooden gets the nod as a great coach. He did have an unreal edge in talent (thanks in part to his player’s sugar daddy) every year, but he did what you were supposed to do with that edge – he won nearly every game for 12 years.

Of course, he wasn’t so great prior to the great talent being brought in, and I was only 4 or 5 when he retired, so I don’t remember seeing many of his games. I think Rupp and Wooden played in a different time though. I would be interested to see how they would do in today’s game with more parity and greater conditioning and full time basketball athletes.

by JackBluto on Sep 3, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I read an article not too long ago about where Wooden admitted...

that he suspected that many of his players were being paid by boosters/agents. It might have been a link on here. Wooden was a great coach and arguably the greatest college coach of all time, but he was no saint.

According to former UCLA players and coaches, between 1967 and the late 1970s the millionaire contractor(Sam Gilbert) took care of the Bruins in more ways than one, bestowing upon selected stars such NCAA no-no’s as clothes, airline tickets, and stereos, as well as paying said stars scalper-level dollars for their season tickets.

by UKTimmy on Sep 3, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

They were ...

… at their respective peaks about two decades apart.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 3, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

Rupp dominated 1940’s and 50’s like Wooden did at UCLA in 1960’s and 70’s.

College basketball changed because of integration in 1960’s. That hurt UK recruiting. He tried but failed to sign more than 1 African-American star.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly respect everyone’s opinion on the two coaches, but Adolph was the best. However we are looking at two different eras. So I will concede on that basis. A little anyway. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to ask if you think that the University should just buy Cal out so we don’t hurt
anyone’s feelings. But I’m glad you added that last line in your comment.

I agree that human nature, being what it is, that what you say is a very real possibility. I, for one though, will stick by Cal until I hear him say with his own mouth, “I have broken the rules.” That is not blind stupidity. It’s called loyalty. Especially when no accusations have been made by the powers that be.

I know that it’s also possible for me to be wrong. I stood by Mark McGwire until he admitted to breaking the rules. He is no longer one I can respect. Until this happens with Cal, if it ever does, I stand by his side.

GO Cats!

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:50 AM EDT reply actions  

UK @ Tubby

UK Fans, those years of 10 Loss Tubby are gone and we should try to forget he was the coach. Now before I p**s off some of his fans or people who want to remind me of what he did while at KY, I could remind those same people of what he didn’t do while at KY. All I’m going to say is look what he has done since he has been at MN. Read what Joe Crawford has to say about Tubby. And if you could get some more of the kids who played for Tubby to tell the truth it wouldn’t be a pretty story of what they would have to say about him. KY covered up a lot about Tubby while he was the coach and let him leave without a Stink. Like the old saying “You can’t judge a book by it’s cover” and I say you can’t judge Tubby by the pretty picture he put up

by kyalltheway on Sep 2, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Baloney

He won 76% of his UK games and 72% of his NCAA games at UK. He won NCAA title, made 4 Elite 8 and 6 Sweet 16, and won 5 SEC and 5 SECT in 10 years. All EXACTLY the same as Uk all-time.

Crawford be damned, 16 UK players from 1998 through 2007 (rosters) either made NBA and/or were drafted by NBA teams.

26 W and 8 L (not 10) averages.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minnesota

The Gophers had NEVER won 20+ W in 3 straight seasons until 2008-09-10. NEVER.

The Gophers rarely, if ever, made 2 straight NCAA appearances until 2009 and 2010.

They had NEVER made Big 10 tourney championship game until 2010. NEVER.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

So now Tub of Ten Losses has the Minnesota Loafers on top of world?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gophers...

That’s not saying a whole lot.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baloney. Yes he did but that will never compensate for all those ten loss seasons.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baloney. Yes he did but that will never compensate for all those ten loss seasons.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Double Baloney

UK averaged 8 L (not 10) from 1998 through 2007.

UK had many 10 L seasons in 1980’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who said anything about how many losses he averaged while at UK? You really like to read crap into stuff, don’t you?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Numbers and statistics.

I think what some UK fans had trouble ignoring was not the 10 year average on losses (only lost 4 in 1998) but the troubling trend towards the end, just before Tubby packed up and quit b/c he couldn’t stand the pressure.

The average number of losses was getting bigger each year. It was 8 when he left b/c, well, he left.

I can’t believe I have been baited into debating Tubby.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

First Paragraph Is False

He changed jobs. He didn’t quit because of pressure.

Joe Hall averaged 7.7 L at UK. Eddie Sutton averaged 10 L. Billy G averaged 13.5 L. Someone with 8.3 L average looks pretty good compared to them, eh?

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Did That

UK gave him permission to explore the Gopher job. When he took their offer, he quit his UK job. But NOT because of any pressure.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

If not pressure...

than why? I’m sure you have first hand knowledge.

by GasCan on Sep 2, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Respect

Minnesota Prez, AD, on down the line respect him.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tubby quit b/c he wanted a low pressure job like Minn. It wasn't a secret. And he most certainly QUIT.

As for your average loss argument, you still did not address what made many fans concerned: the trend. Sure, Tubby lost few games early, then that average started getting dragged upward later in his UK tenure. And it didn’t look to be getting any better either.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Changed Jobs For A Better Opportunity

And he deserved it. Better Prez, better AD up there. Not even close.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

dumb ass?!?!

I thought it was a legitimate question since you obviously have a lot of animosity towards UK and the Athletic Department. But If you want to roll around in the mud so to speak, Ill stoop to your level you KNOW-IT-All JERK!

by GasCan on Sep 3, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

But knowing you...

I’m sure you’ll be able to cut and paste some irrelevant fact or stat that well assuredly prove that I, in fact , am a dumb ass and you couldn’t be the know-it-all jerk that I have claimed you to be ; )

by GasCan on Sep 3, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

But...

Whoa guy, that ain’t cool.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't do this, Forty.

You know better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 4, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

3 Yr Gofer Fan = Out Of Line

I’m CLEARLY a UK fan, although not exclusively.

Also UC and Purdue fan.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 4, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

He changed...

Better than our Wildcats? How do you get better than that?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Better FOR HIM

No doubt whatsoever.

UK is not for everybody. Very few, in fact.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly 40 - you are proving my statement true.

Why wasn’t UK for him? Because he did not want the pressure of the job. He didn’t like hearing unrest for merely losing 25 games in two years. He wanted a cushier job with less pressure for similar money. That is what he got.

Better for him I guess.

All it means is he couldn’t hack having the best job with the biggest expectations. That doesn’t make him a bad man. It just makes him less of one.

heh – heads will explode now.

by JackBluto on Sep 3, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not mine. You’re right! LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I think that is probably true.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Numbers

FWIW- Tubby losses (I’m using 40’s techniques):

4, 9, 10, 10, 10, 4, 5, 6, 13, 12

Average losses (appx): 4, 6.5, 7.6, 8.25, 8.6, 7.8, 7.4, 7.25, 7.9, 8.3

He had really 3 good years after the first year. He had 2 crappy seasons at the end. Things weren’t looking to get much better in the short term.

Still, I would not have advocated firing him at all. But he needed to do something to improve the direction of the team, he wasn’t willing to do anything – not even change assistants, and he quit for a job that paid about the same. I would not be bothered if he left for gobs of cash in the NBA like Pitino. But no – b/c he didn’t like being told he wasn’t doing good enough and there was pressure with the job, he agreed to take the job with 6 weeks left in the season and mailed it in.

End of debate.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

After 1998

1999, 2003, 2004, and 2005 were “really” good by UK standards.

2001 was “pretty” good. SEC and SECT champs, Sweet 16, #2 seed in NCAA. 2002 not far off that but no SEC laurels.

But 2000 was just so-so. All UK did that season was defeated the NC (Mich St) and runner-up (Fla). No SEC hardware. No NCAA glory.

2006 and 2007 were mediocre by UK standards. But your last sentence is utterly false. I know Joel Maturi pretty well by now. Tubby took the job on March 23, 2007 – NOT BEFORE.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

My statement was not false - it is documented. It is based on what Maturi himself said.

Here is a link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2809104

Read the first sentence. This was published March 25. Tubby agreed to take the job about six weeks before that – meaning early February. That is during the regular season. He knew he was leaving, kept it to himself, and guided us right into a first round loss.

I don’t know if this type of thing happens all the time, but I do know that it is not considered appropriate.

Thus, UK had to wait a few weeks after Tubby left to talk to Donavon, who used the delay as a PR ad for Florida basketball, then turned us down. If only he had been willing to talk to us about his next job during the season like Tubby did, we could have avoided the Billy G hire.

by JackBluto on Sep 3, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maturi also talks about "what a pressure cooker" Tubby was in.

Then he says how much easier Minn would be: “we’d be thrilled with 14 straight 20 win seasons.”

He might as well put it in neon lights: he couldn’t stand the heat!

by JackBluto on Sep 3, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

And now comes the dawn. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minnesota

Is thrilled with 3 straight 20 W seasons. Gophers NEVER did that B4.

Tubby isn’t thrilled with it. He has higher goals.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

FortyYearCatFan

Guess he better hurry. Cal sort of has a head start on him. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

No Comparison With Calipari NOW

He does have the NC but Cal is one of Top 3 (K, Roy W) in Div I today.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 4, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

It IS False

I e-mailed Joel (from work) today.

Tubby accepted the job on 3/23/2007, not before.

Come to Big 10 tourney (Indy) in March 2011. U can ask Joel yourself. I’ll introduce you.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever 40 - read his own words.

He was communicating with Tubby for 6 weeks before the end of the season through intermediaries. No “official” acceptance b/c that would be a REAL NO NO. But even he informal communications is a no-no and he said it was happening in an inerview. Let’s take a look:

Minnesota athletic director Joel Maturi found out six weeks ago that Tubby Smith was willing to leave Kentucky and come to Minnesota, Maturi told ESPN.com late Thursday night, the eve of the Golden Gophers’ news conference to introduce their new men’s basketball coach.
****
Maturi’s coup of landing a national championship coach started when he sought out Smith’s agent and friend Ricky Lefft. The two had conversations over the past six weeks about Smith’s potential interest in the position.
****
But for the deal to get done, Maturi had to start the process earlier than Kentucky’s final game last Sunday in Chicago against Kansas.
****

Stick to your position, but he’s already on the record saying Tubby gave him the wink wink nudge nudge green light with 6 weeks to go in the season.

Thanks for the offer, bu I don’t need to meet Joel and he doesn’t want to meet me. Unless he gets sued in Georgia. Then tell him to call me. I’ll audition for the job by cross-examining him on this subject with his own interview.

by JackBluto on Sep 4, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tubby Accepted The Job 3/23/2007

I don’t see anything different in your clip.

If you read the ENTIRE story (ESPN), you’ll find that what I sais is accurate (QUOTED in Joel’s words).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 5, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

To Wit

“I met with the agent prior, but there’s no way I thought it was a done deal,” Maturi said. “I felt a connection with Ricky. We had similar values and we cared about Coach Smith and saw how much of a gem Minnesota is and how we have a great venue to play in [Williams Arena] with a town thirsting to fill the barn. We’ve got a great metropolitan area and a welcoming city.”

Maturi said once Kentucky lost Sunday, conversations became more intense between Maturi and Lefft.

Maturi said he didn’t ask Kentucky athletic director Mitch Barnhart for permission to speak with Smith until Thursday morning.

“I never thought it would happen this quickly, but [Smith] made the decision that if he was going to get on the plane then there was no turning back,” Maturi said. Maturi did say he spoke with Smith briefly Wednesday.

“I was talking to the agent [Lefft] as late as 2:30 [Thursday morning], and I didn’t know we were going to go down there,” Maturi said. “I called for a private plane and didn’t know we could get one when I called at 8 [a.m. Thursday]. When I got home [Wednesday night] I didn’t know I was going to be on an airplane [Thursday].”

Maturi said as soon as Barnhart gave him permission Thursday, he called Smith immediately.

“I honestly thought we wouldn’t have a press conference until Monday, not Friday,” Maturi said.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 5, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ignore the wink-wink if you want.

He knew he had Tubby through an intermediary, and it was only a matter of how long it would take to hammer out the details. Tubby was so out of here, it didn’t take long at all.

I seriously doubt we got Tubby’s best the last 6 weeks. Not b/c I dislike Tubby (not the case at all), but b/c we all know that is what we get from employees with one foot out the door.

by JackBluto on Sep 7, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

at the very least...

… be honest enough to admit that Tubby was communicating with Maturi through an intermediary to express interest in the job when the season was over.

Saying he didn’t think it was a done deal is a comment about the details – not about Tubby taking the job. That’s why he thought the press conference would be on Monday – not Friday.

That is certainly accurate enough, right?

by JackBluto on Sep 7, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jack Bluto

Well, you could write a book about some of the things BD could do.
Consider whom he trained under and I believe played for also. RP, in my opinion, wasn’t all he wanted people to think he was. Ooops.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Numbers...

Jack, I really hope you don’t that I’m baiting you. Why is it when I state an opinion,
its baiting? Others do it and it’s an opinion or comment. Oh well, some things remain the same.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

My comment..

Sorry. I miss that sometimes. It’s one of faults. I’ll try to watch it.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hee. Hee. Man, you crack me up.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa there 40

UK had only 3 10-loss seasons in the 1980s, 1985, 1987, and 1989. The last one was the worst, but it occurred after the Sutton ship was sinking. One would only be fair to claim two real 10-loss seasons in the 1980s. In your zeal to defend a former coach, please don’t exaggerate too much.

by jdogblue on Sep 2, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Averaged 9.3 L In 1980's

Worst decade in UK history.

Fewest W since 1930’s, too.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Percentages is nothing but a “Mickey Mouse” way of covering up the truth. Let’s see what his percentages are after 42 years at one school. Adolph still holds the D-1 record for fewest losses in a career spanning +40 years.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

No..

It is, when we are talking about the best. I really am concerned why Adolph Rupp’s name is about as rare on ASob as twenty dollar gold pieces from the 1930’s. Like he is not a part of UK BB history anymore. Hope that’s not true.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not that he is forgotten ab......it is that this game, the one we have all come to embrace would have and

did pass Coach Rupp by.You think they wouldnt have found a way to keep Rupp beyond mandatory retirement age if he had still been winning NCAA championships left over right? A lot of the powers that be never got over 1966. They were shocked that UK could get beat, but they were more shocked that UK could get beat by a no name coach with a group of no name players. That was the true telling factor. It was never about black and white for Coach Rupp. It was about the fact that that Texas Western team made his guys look like they were standing still at times. I know it hurt Rupp too. He knew the game was getting away from him. If he had been able to win another Championship or two with himself at the helm and Hall bringing in the recruits he would have probably stayed another 5-6 years.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 2, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

and also, only a handful of us were around in those days to witness Coach Rupp's work.

We are few and far between

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 2, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not...

Agreed. I watched that game on TV in Texas. I was shocked that Texas Western was even there! They did outplay a group of more talented UK players. But there was a very good reason. Even Tev Laudeman in his book “The Rupp Years” stated that the UK players were worn from the game with Duke just the night before and several of the guys had flu-like symptoms.
Also they had just beaten the finest team that Dayton has ever had to reach that final game. Did TWU deserve to win? Well they had the most points at the
end so I guess that speaks volumes since nobody gave them any freebies.
LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was not in school yet when Rupp retired.

Hall is the first coach I can remember.

I think that explains why we don’t talk much about him. He isn’t relevant to the conversation nearly, like, almost always.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was..

Yeah that’s true. I forget sometimes myself that this is 2010 and not 1955. It’s hard for me to accept but he really isn’t relative to this time period. Just historically. I guess I’m living in the “Glory Road” days too much. Gotta stop that and enjoy my Cats now. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rupp Struggled With Recruiting

When KY talent changed to primarily African-American in 1960’s, he really struggled. Hall saved him on the recruiting side.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rupp....

This is true also. I well remember that time. Rupp tried but knew, prior
to the ’70s, that if he did, UK would have to leave the SEC.

Those are times I won’t forget. There were some very talented African American youngsters available, but for the old established untruth, they wouldn’t come to Kentucky.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not True (1970's)

SEC opened recruiting to African-Americans in 1964.

UK was the first to sign any (football, track & field) in 1965.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dang blast anyway, podner. You’re right again. I forgot about Wes Unseld and Butch Beard. Well that’s why you’re #1. Nicht Wahr? LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

UK@Tubby

I agree100%. Michael Bradley ia a case in point. Donna Smith, for some reason, didn’t like
him. She kept after Tub of Ten Losses until he ran him off. I have been told this by a person who supposedly knows.

I do know that Bradley left abruptly and Tub of Ten Losses would not openly talk about it.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go figure.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

BS

Bradley left because of his father. He cried in Tubby’s office. Literally CRIED.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

BS

Well, pardon me for living Mr Know It All. If you will read that statement I said
“supposedly.” I musn’t doubt your knowledge, after all you know all there is to know.

Without FortyYearCat the world would plunge into chaos! I’ll bet you were in Tub of Ten Losses’ office. Of course Tubbo told you this. Or are your sources impeccable like the Sun-Times dude?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's..

I wouldn’t expect one. It can’t be proven.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

ab, you are never going to win an argument with Forty about Tubby.....wasting energy and life force trying....lol

I don’t know where Forty gets all of his connections from, nor do I know what his sources are. He is usually right in a historical manner when discussing facts. And he can quote chapter and verse when it comes to Tubby and almost any other coach, but Tubby is his guy, and you are not going to change thatone, trust me.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 2, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

ab,....

Don’t want to. It’s obvious the man studies like hell. Gotta respect that. He is one of the most knowledgable people I’ve had discussions with about UK BB. He’s alright.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Welcome Facts In Rebuttal

The positive facts are pretty strong.

The negative facts are pretty few.

If the opposite were true, I’d argue that way.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Forty married to Bruce Webber's sister?

I don’t think actual Illinois fans would defend Webber as aggressively as Forty has.

by GasCan on Sep 2, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

No

A college classmate of mine (at Purdue in early 1970’s) was his neighbor in West Lafayette for 25 years. She and Mrs. Weber were nurses at a Lafayette IN hospital.

Weber, not Webber. He was a big factor in Purdue’s Big 10 success(es) in 1980’s and 90’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Forty...

Suffice it to say not everybody here is as big a fan of Weber as yourself. He coaches at an opposing program and that by itself is sufficient to justify detracting comments by non-Illinois fans. I myself don’t like the man as a sports personality, am happy he is relegated to mid-pack status in a mid-pack conference and don’t think any of the “proof” you’ve supplied us is sufficient to change the ‘accepted truth’ that Bruce is a crummy recruiter nor in anyway has brought success to his program sufficient to be added to even a LONG list of possible candidates for being hired at Kentucky in the distant future when Cal retires – which is my personal standard for quality coaching.

by TeamWeaver on Sep 2, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Entitled To Your Opinion

Mine’s based on facts. Weber was key ingredient in Purdue sucess under Keady, then did very well at SIU and Illinois since.

Weber is a fine recruiter. Illinois has more Div I talent in 1 year than Kentucky (HS) has in a decade so you can’t sign them all.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

Same thing with Eddie Sutton. Dwayne Casey was the culprit but somehow Sutton became an accomplice. Hmmmm.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I won’t argue with that. May be why he WASN’T involved. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe Sutton did not know.

You will never convince me of that.

And don’t say that my subborn logic could apply to Cal, too. The stuff that has haunts Cal (Camby and Rose) did not involve Cal or his staff.

Besides, wasn’t Sean part of the investigation with the academic fraud of Manuel?

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keady DIDN'T Know

Sutton may not remember.

But Okla St got in NCAA “hot water” too.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't...

As a matter of fact I believe he was.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks to you...

I now know more about the history of Illinois basketball and Bruce Weber than I could have ever imagined. And I apologize for adding the extra “b” in Weber, force of habit. On a side note, the same minister that married my wife and I also married Jon Bon Jovi and his wife. If anyone wants to say something bad about him or his music, I will bury you in so many facts about his life that you will think your living under a UofL fans inflated sense of self worth,and you will wish you never said anything bad about a person that I don’t know personally, just second hand ;)

by GasCan on Sep 2, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Almost every post you read

from Forty references a personal connection to someone inside basketball. I’m not calling baloney on all of those references, just saying that I knew someone who was related to someone who bumped into someone at McDonalds and heard that blah, blah blah….

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 2, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forty knows a lot of people

and he’s legit

I may not always agree with him, but he’s not a liar.

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 2, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do tell. So was Adolph Hitler.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

not cool...

No it’s not, if I were placing him in the same category. I was pointing out the principle
of legitemacy. The subject of Hitler is, of course, for another blog site.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It Adolf...

See man. Can’t seem to get away from “Adolph.” And I’m a WWII history buff. Remember Forty, I said buff, not expert, and even speak a little German. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. His first cousin.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but knowing someone, who knows someone, who knows someone, etc. How accurate can that be? In a court of law it would heresay.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I Know Him Personally But Not Particularly Well

And Weber is among the Top 20 coaches in Div I per NCAA coaching stats.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Number 20 won’t buy many cigars. May not even buy a hotdog. Hee! Hee!

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Among The Top Coaches In Div I

There are almost 350 such coaches now. Top 20 isn’t bad.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But among....

No it’s not, when you consider that it’s 20 out of 350. Have to agree, that’s dang good. I’m not down on this guy anyway. Truth is I know nothing of Illinois except that Dan Issel comes from Batavia and I don’t even know where that is.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

About 40 Miles West Of Downtown Chicago

His neighbor growing up was Ken Anderson of Cincy Bengals (1970’s and 80’s).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

About..

Didn’t know that. I always liked Kenny Anderson.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW ...

Forty, this has been one of the most enjoyable threads on ASOB in a long time and primarily due to your efforts – you have my thanks and appreciation!

by TeamWeaver on Sep 2, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

You can't even make this stuff up!

Doyell needs to go write for the National Enquirer where he belongs..This guy is worse than Mariotti, maybe one day he will also be arrested for being an idiot too! He’s an arrogant, petulant child who’s only real talent is to rile people up in an attempt to get hits on his articles, blogs, and interviews. The truth is Illinois had very little, if anything to do with Anthony Davis, period! They saw him a few times, but they were never in on his recruitment at all, and they were never on any list that Davis ever provided of schools he was interested in.

Davis went from virtual unknown to #1 rated prospect practically overnight. By the time either Weber or Howard were in on him the Davis’s had pretty much closed their recruitment. Now ask yourself, why would Weber give two craps about a player he was never in on at all?! Weber has never been even remotely accused of anything like this in his long tenured career in college basketball. Notice Doyell has no proof what so ever to back this half cocked theory up..Everybody should do themselves a big favor, stop reading and listening to this fool! Doyell you’re an embarrassment to even tabloid reporters.

by John Constantine on Sep 2, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

You can't...

John, now you have mentioned someone whom I can’t stand. Mariotti! When I hear his name I won’t even eat pizza. If this Doyell character is in that classification, then yes, he should apply for a job with the National Enquirer. They’re the ones who, about 20 years ago, ran a front page story in their rag about a woman who gave birth to a half lizard half human baby. I kid you
not.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds more like the World Daily News.

The National Enquirer is more of a celebrity rag.

by JackBluto on Sep 2, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what is worse, some fool making up a story about a kid demanding 200K or some fool claiming that he knows

who the fool is that started the rumor?

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 2, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what..

Dang good point. Remember what Obi-Wan Ben Kenobi told Luke in the original Star Wars
when they were talking at Luke’s home? “Who is the bigger fool? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool?” Never forgot that one. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait ...

… did not Calipari and Weber find out about Davis at approximately the same time?

How is it possible that Calipari knew about Davis from Lexington before Weber did from right next door? Do you actually believe that? How could Calipari have been “in” on Davis before Weber even knew about him?

If so, Weber unquestionably has major issues with recruiting. Major. In fact, I would say that he is arguably incompetent, if the scenario you put forward is accurate.

The fact is, Illinois was mentioned in connection with Davis by Davis himself fully three months before the first mention of Kentucky. Neither you nor Forty have the first clue what you are talking about with respect to his recruitment.

At the end of the day, calling people names does not change a thing.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 2, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Davis Plays In A Lower Rated CPS Division

Funny how it goes but the players in higher rated CPS divisions get the press.

I follow recruiting very avidly. Never heard of Davis until last summer. Not a word about him in Chicago papers until then. Not on All-State or All-Area teams in 2009 season.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Weber was "passing" on Davis I would call it his knowing something.

But as it stands, the appearance is that Davis “passed” on Illinois. Sounds to me like Weber could’nt hold a light for Calipari to work by if you ask me. And for further emphasis, how is it that a complete unknown in the world of college athletics gets that story? And then no reputable reporter can get it confirmed. From ANYONE?

Forty I am assuming you know your stuff here on Weber, but it really looks like more and more that Weber couldnt stand another recruit hopping a plane and heading for John Calipari so fast they leave skid marks on Illinois pavement.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 2, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO ONE Knew About Davis Until This Spring

Completely unknown even in Chicago HS circles.

Total BS in your last paragraph.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clipped From ESPN Article In May 2010

Anthony Davis Sr. wasn’t expecting to hear from any college coaches after his son Anthony Davis Jr. returned from the Boo Williams Nike Invitational in Virginia in early April.

It wasn’t that Davis doubted his son’s ability. It was just that the high school junior hadn’t played on the AAU scene since eighth grade, and he had only one half to show coaches what he was capable of as he sprained his ankle in his first game with his new club team, MeanStreets.

Anthony Davis grew 6 inches over the past year to 6-foot-8.
But the day after his son returned, the elder Davis’ phone rang, then it rang again and again and again. While the younger Davis might have only played a short while in just one game, college coaches from coast to coast had seen enough of the 6-foot-8 (6-10 with shoes on), 185-pound forward to realize he was something special, and it was why they quickly began calling his father.

“No, I had no idea at all it was going to be like that,” the elder Davis said. “When the phone started ringing, it was a total shock. From there, my phone has been ringing off the hook. I didn’t expect anything like this. … Right now, I’m still trying to soak everything in. I’m trying to believe what’s going on with my son. I’m a proud father.”

In the past month, Davis has gone from being an unknown even in his hometown of Chicago to being the hottest recruit in the country, with the biggest names in college basketball now calling him and his father.

“I’m getting calls from schools I never thought I’d be getting calls from,” the younger Davis said. “I got a call from Harvard. I’m like, ‘Harvard?’ I never thought Harvard would be calling me.”

Davis’ story is one rarely written in today’s basketball world. Scouts, coaches and media are falling over each other to find the next great talent at the earliest age possible, and Davis somehow remained hidden. Until now.

“An absolutely intriguing and unique story when you think about a player arriving on the scene this late in his career, especially in a basketball city like Chicago with so many eyes and mouthpieces out there,” said City/Suburban Hoops Report’s Joe Henricksen, one of the area’s leading scouting analysts.

Davis’ previous anonymity can be explained, though.

For one thing, he has attended Perspectives Charter Schools since sixth grade. Davis’ parents chose Perspectives as it was the best bet academically for their child. Athletically, it’s a different story. Davis’ high school has an enrollment of less than 200 students and has to co-op with another one of Perspectives’ schools to assemble a basketball team. The program doesn’t even have a gym of its own, and coaches come and go.

Perspectives belongs to the Public League Blue-West, which is a tier below the league’s top Red division. The level of basketball isn’t dreadful, but doesn’t come near that of the Red. It occasionally produces a Division I player, and there are plenty of other players capable of playing at some level of college basketball.

The Blue-West doesn’t receive much outside attention. While Davis was putting up 30 points and 12 rebounds a game this past season at Perspectives, his performances went unnoticed by local media and scouts.

“It was kind of frustrating,” Davis said. “I was thinking, ‘Wayne Blackshear, Mike Shaw, I played with all them guys for a long time when we were little. All those guys in the Red West were doing these big things, but not putting up big numbers, and I’m putting up humungous numbers and I’m not getting known.’ I guess they figure since it’s the Blue West and they’re in the Red West they have better competition than us.”

Another reason Davis flew under the radar was because he stopped playing club basketball after eighth grade. While club basketball may draw criticism, few can argue over the amount of exposure it can provide a player. It can especially be vital to players like Davis who are rarely seen during their high school seasons. Before Davis joined MeanStreets, Cleveland State and DePaul were the only schools that had bothered to give him a look.

“We knew he was skilled, but to what level that was the value we didn’t know,” Perspectives athletic director Vinay Mullick said. “Obviously, the world of AAU is crazy. It’s taken over recruiting. The AAU exposure has been great for him.”

Lastly, Davis was a 6-2 guard a year ago. Although his father is just 6-2 and there aren’t any other giants in his family, Davis somehow grew 6 inches over the past year.

“He’s still growing,” his father said. “We don’t know where the height is coming from. It’s freakish. He just skyrocketed over everybody.”

Once a versatile guard who could handle the ball and shoot it, Davis became a 6-8 forward who could do the same because he never lost his coordination. With his height, slender build and guard-like skills, Davis now draws constant comparisons to longtime Detroit Pistons forward Tayshaun Prince.

“First of all, he’s long,” MeanStreets CEO Tai Streets said. “Usually a guy that big can’t dribble and shoot and that stuff. Right away, I could see he was different than most big guys. He can really play. He’s involved in every play. He can play defense. He can do a lot of things on the court. He can shoot the ball, run the floor, he can finish. He’s tough, too. He reminds me of a Dirk Nowitzki at the high school level.”

Davis displayed a glimpse of that at Boo Williams. Two weeks later, he was healthy again and able to show his complete game throughout a whole weekend at the Nike Spring Showdown in Merrillville, Ind.

Just this past weekend, he did it again at the Spiece Run ’N Slam tournament in Fort Wayne, Ind. It was there that ESPN Scouts Inc. recruiting coordinator Reggie Rankin caught his first glimpse of Davis.

“Once you see him, it’s a no-brainer,” Rankin said. "He was very, very impressive, and I saw him at 8 o’clock in the morning in a small high school gym. His upside is big-time. He’s got size and skill. He’s got unbelievable hands. He can catch tough passes and finish them. He can make mid-range jumpers. He can rebound and bust out dribble on the break.

“He was the best player I saw this weekend. He’s really good, man. He’s got a chance to very special. The only thing he is lacking is strength. Once he gets that strength down, he’s as good of a post as I’ve seen in that class.”

College coaches have been drooling over Davis’ potential. Syracuse, a school that traditionally doesn’t recruit Chicago, offered him after seeing him play just once. Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin have followed suit. Harvard, Memphis, Ohio State, Pittsburgh and Xavier are among a number of other schools now recruiting him as well.

As one Big Ten coach recently texted about him, “Can you say, ‘Wow?!!’ Spoke to the dad the other night! High priority kid!”

It all has been a bit overwhelming for Davis.

“I didn’t expect nothing like this,” Davis said. “I knew I would have some colleges and some media attention, but not like this, not a whole lot. It’s been hectic, but it’s a great experience. It’s really crazy to have a lot of coaches calling me wanting me to come to their school. I thought before, ‘I guess I’ll be going to Cleveland State.’ No one recognized me. To have all these coaches calling me is a real big thing.”

Illinois’ Class of 2011 has been raved about as one of the best in the state’s history, with the likes of Blackshear (Louisville recruit), Shaw, Tracy Abrams (Illinois), Ryan Boatright, Nnanna Egwu (Illinois), Chasson Randle, Sam Thompson, Mycheal Henry, George Marshall (Wisconsin) and others. And now it adds one more high-major talent, and Streets believes Davis might be the best of the bunch in the long run.

“If he can stay hungry, the sky’s the limit for this kid,” Streets said. "I don’t usually say that about kids. Honestly, if he keeps working, stays hungry and keeps being competitive, I would take him over anyone in that class when it’s all said and done because of the tremendous upside he has.

“He’s definitely unfinished. He’s still raw. It’s amazing to see a kid like this. It’s definitely refreshing.”

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 2, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The BS is from your point of view, no one else's

If Weber didn’t make any statement to a reporter let him come out and deny it. Or come out and admit it, I do not care. The reporter is where the fault lies here. Coaches can say anything they want on or off the record. But when no one, and according to reports it is no one, will go on the record or off the record about statements being made, then I am of the opinion that the reporter in question must prove their story or retract it. I now have a couple of my own “sources” now. I have learned from talking to them what they are willing to say and what they are not. When someone is not willing to say something to either prove or disprove a statement or situation, it is usually because they do not want anyone sniffing in their own back yard, or they are just blowing off steam. In either case, that reporter from Chicago stuck his own neck out there and made libelous statements about a minor. I don’t care who you are, that is irresponsible. And if Weber did make some sort of a comment about the kid and his bolting for Kentucky, then he deserves any wrath placed upon his head, unless he can prove it is true.

I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!

by Greg Alan Edwards on Sep 3, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

It Is BS

Weber doesn’t work like that. He’s land 3 or 4 of the best IL players in recent years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand, and I know you do follow it closely. Understandably, so do I.

You are right that Davis was largely unknown until the spring. That is 100% right. It is also a fact that Weber had every reason to know about Davis at least at the same time Calipari did, since Davis first got noticed at an AAU event in Merillville Indiana, a suburb of Chicago.

But the fact of the matter remains that Weber and his staff were in touch with him before Calipari began to seriously recruit him. That’s a fact, at least according to the kid himself. By my best reckoning, Weber’s staff was in touch with him no less than 60 days before Calipari was. The first serious reporting that was done on Davis was done by an Illini website.

So the idea that Weber did not know about Davis until after Calipari had already locked him up is transparently incorrect, and in my opinion, absurd on its face. I know you did not make that claim, but you seemed to agree with it.

I do not have such a low opinion of Weber that I would believe him utterly incompetent in recruiting, and when a kid in his back yard suddenly exploded onto the scene, it is natural and expected for a school like Illinois to be immediately interested. With the proximity of Urbana-Champaign to Chicago, it is illogical to assume that Weber stood by and let Calipari get to him first. As I said, I think Weber is a better recruiter than that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 3, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Weber Surely Knew About Him This Spring And Summer

But Davis was clearly bound to play at another level. U of IL is a good program. They recruit very good players.

But THE very best IL players – Scheyer, Rose, Davis – usually go elsewhere. Jereme Richmond is an exception to that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gentlemen (and ladies, if appropriate)

I echo another poster in that I have enjoyed this thread more than any I have seen in quite some time.

by jdogblue on Sep 2, 2010 8:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I must respectfully disagree.

I only found this blog a couple of years ago, and, for me, it has been a great place to exchange information and share enthusiasm for UK athletics.

This thread, however, has been full of the contentiousness and name-calling that has been refreshingly absent from ASoB (and pervasive on many other sports blogs).

by bob in bg on Sep 3, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bob, are you really that sensitive? Nobody’s comments are posted out of hate, although some, including a few of my own, could have been stated with a little more consideration.

On an issue such as this, given the varying opinions, it can get heated. But not like most other blogs. Just my opinion. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 To say the least. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ditto. Gotta go to bed now. My 691/2 year old brain is tired. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 2, 2010 9:34 PM EDT reply actions  

ILLINI FAN HERE

I follow our recruiting efforts closely and Anthony Davis was never on our radar very closely. You know why cause we knew we would not get him to start. Certain players in the chicago High school bball will never come to U OF I they see the in state school as boring and no upside as far as pro potential. Weber was never in on Davis now did he show up at a AAU event and save face by at least putting his name in the mix yes but that was only to save face with fans like me who want to see every top tier from chicago come to champaign. Fact of the matter is chicago high school basketball is the best in the country hands down no other state is even close to the level of player we produce from the mean chicago streets as far as basketball. If anybody wants to argue that than lets go name me a state that produces more D1 talent then we do in chicago? Weber is not going to win the recruiting battles with all these kids its just not possible too much talent to be had. Do i think Weber said what the idiot Doyel is saying he said maybe he did maybe he didnt. But i do know Weber knew that he had no chance whatsoever with Davis,Blackshear, and any other high profile kid in chicago. They just dont want to stay in state anymore, i think the program will win more games in the coming years and guess what we still will not get the top tier guys in chicago you know why beacuse champaign isnt appealing to a inner city kid at all. I like Coach Cal i think he is good guy and i like his honesty as far as his teams play is concerned. Do i think he cheats maybe he does maybe its all hate towards the guy. But one thing i know for sure Weber never had any real hopes of getting Davis we were after Mychael Henry and Mike Shaw and Chasson Randle. No ILLINI faithful ever thought Davis was a Candidate to be at ILLINOIS trust me.

by destruct773 on Sep 3, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Bingo

+1.

U of IL signs some of the best IL players every year but not all of them (or even close).

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tru,

is this a record for posts involving one subject?

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 3, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

oh god no

There was truly, truly nothing on earth like a good old Tubby eruption back in the day. You’d check the blog in the morning and see a seemingly innocuous post with a few comments, then come back in the afternoon with, like 200 new messages, and you didn’t even have to read them—you already knew exactly the arguments and points that everyone had made, ad nauseum.

Fun times!! :)

by blue kentucky girl on Sep 3, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll Just Say This

UK is better off with Calipari. He SHOULD have been hired in 2007.

Tubby is better off at Minnesota. People change jobs all the time. He did. We all do.

by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 3, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that I can whole heartedly agree with. Wow, even we found a common ground for once. Hee! Hee!

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. I didn’t know not being a member of ASoB at that time. To be honest, I didn’t even know what a “blog” meant and, Har, Har, still don’t. LOL

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Sometimes these things just take on a life of their own, though.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Sep 4, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

This thread is ruined

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Sep 3, 2010 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Just got here,

did I miss the party?

I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.

by kywineman on Sep 3, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think so. I’m sitting here at 3:20 AM still having fun. I did have a short nap of about 3 hours but I’m back at it now. LOL. Welcome back in KWM.

Happy days are here again,
The skies are Wildcat Blue again,
We've got the best recruits again,
Happy days are here again.

by alwaysblue on Sep 4, 2010 3:22 AM EDT reply actions  

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