Kentucky Basketball: "Is it worth it?"

so this is not just a UK thing with you Hoze?

… last I checked, UK had a worse reputation (or at least as bad) as Calipari for all sorts of reasons — repeated recruiting violations, crazy fans, Adolph Rupp’s alleged racism. Even the last 20 years of almost flawless compliance in basketball has done nothing to mitigate that.

I have come to the conclusion that nothing UK can do can make up for their past sins in the eyes of most. So I dispute the suggestion that hiring Calipari hurt UK’s reputation. It could hardly be worse as it is, fair or unfair. Smith’s running of a clean program did absolutely nothing for UK’s reputation — remember the “immaculate fax?”

In the end, I think your are making an argument that has no practical meaning. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying that, for the most part, Kentucky would have a bad reputation if they had hired Tom Izzo or any of the other media-appointed coaching saints you can name. Hiring Calipari merely made the criticism more strident, and more in line with popular groupthink.

Your point obviously is based on Calipari being on trial in some “Kangaroo Court” where you have already found him guilty when there is not one shred of evidence that he has broken an
NCAA rule. My parents taught me that the majority is not always right. Be true to your convictions and what is RIGHT! Go back to gangsterland city. So in summary, you are full of dung HozeKing. Iv’e read some of your post’s and I must say that if you are a UK fan I am Napolean Bonaparte. Long live the BIG BLUE and our coach BIG CAL.

My God!! I just now realized that I have blasphemed against the Kentucky Wildcats. I see that logo of the University of Pussyville on your post. And I actually accused you of being a UK fan. I’ll never forgive myself!

that you would show up on a post that could be replied to negatively and be negative?

Where are you on the posts that talk about good accomplishments congratulating the individuals mentioned about their good work. You come here to be negative and only show up on posts that allow you to do so. It’s pretty pathetic really.

PLEEEEEZZEEEEE??

That makes me like him even more.

It is a big job. And it takes a lot of one’s time. Tru said it best, he understands the job. He is doing what he is paid to do. It isn’t all about the game.

Is it worth it to Cal. I have to admit that Cal seems a little worn when I seem him on the news. He looks very tired and I cant help but wonder if things arent taking a toll on him. I know he should be used to the rumors, etc as he certainly has been no stranger to them, but I still cant help but wonder how he’s doing. One of his last interviews regarding the numerous coaching rumers he said he was happy here but also said something about this being the hardest coaching job he has ever had and even more so than he even expected.

Great use of sarcastic wit! Paris and Hoze could both learn a thing or two from this comment.

Brilliant.

What a genius. Whatever. I just remember everyone defending, applauding, and laughing about the Edwards response. Oh, and that ain’t sarcasm. I am not allowed.

Very, very well written. I’ve always been told that it only requires a short satirical comment to make your point. Sort of like reverse psychology. LOL

Giving the Great Northwesterners even more reason to hate us?

Why not? :-)

thanks, creature.
The eyes ain’t what they used to be, sadly.

guess UK didnt have to dump him after all…..and I have to confess, this is probably going to seem like a purgatory of sorts for Strickland…..and deservedly so….he now needs to earn his way out of it……it will take time….but it can be done

It’s not hate. We don’t know you well enough to hate you. The relationship between UK and UW was a non-issue until this year when Kanter (for better or worse) broke off his commitment and transferred to UK. Then there’s the whole T Jones fiasco as a sequel. It’s more of a “Hey, what the h*ll? Stay in your own sandbox will ya, and quit stealing my toys!”

Personally, I think it’s good for our program. We’re doing battle with KENTUCKY…. and winning once in awhile (we hope!). Now look at the excitement the Maui Invitational will create next year. I think we can all agree that it would be off the charts if UK and UW were to meet in the final. It would be the early season story of the year. Now, how could we hate that?

from the gym…..

And one we will be dealing with for a while, I suppose.

I don’t know the answer.

We all saw what experienced players could do to our ultra-talented youngsters
when we lost to WVU. But what’s a coach to do? Only try to get 1 of the five-star players, then recruit all four-star guys?

I think a lot of the “one-and-done” talk frames the argument incorrectly.
I mean, who doesn’t try to recruit the very best?

Calipari says he prefers talent over experience, but he doesn’t have a championship to show for that philosophy. I’m sure there’s a balance in there, but how to get there seems to be the rub. Calipari is a great recruiter, and it seems that UK’s brand only makes him more potent.

Obviously, Wall needs to go pro now.
This issue will probably be at the front of our discussion for a while.

I think we’ll have to wait and see, as you suggest, how the turnover thing goes. Last year really was an anomaly, I expect, but that won’t be confirmed for a year or two more.

I expect we’ll see a player or two per year entering the draft early. That’s about what we would expect to see from most top squads. If that speculation turns out right, I think the fears of a “minor league” NBA team would largely be minimized.

I am much more concerned about academic performance remaining at an acceptable level. These guys don’t have to be 4.0 students, but I am going to be concerned if we are always bringing up the rear in that area.

Not supposed to be any strikethroughs.

Why do we need to look past what you call Cal’s “…heavy reliance on one-and-dones”?

Who doesn’t recruit the best players available?

The vast majority of media criticism has been about recruiting tactics and vacated Final Fours. Calipari has never been accused of a recruiting violation by anyone, and the Final Fours were not his fault. He turned Camby in to the NCAA, and the NCAA did not even sanction UMass — they made them surrender their FF for playing an ineligible player, but received zero sanctions in the form of scholarship reductions, etc. Memphis did, but that was due to the Reggie Rose thing, which was far from the slam dunk it was made out to be.

In reality, there are a number of coaches who could be charged with all those same charges absent the Final Fours and scholarship thing, which I chose to mostly overlook as long as it never happens again. But I can’t excuse it entirely, and I wouldn’t ask anyone else to.

The one-and-done thing, in my opinion, is not really a valid charge. That’s merely a matter of taste, and mostly it is Pharisaical nonsense from Calipari’s critics, as I have explained before.

You’re more than welcome, as a Kentucky fan, to look past all of that. But you really think the rest of the basketball world should as well? You want him to be treated the same as a Roy Williams—but how many of those problems can you apply to Williams?

What I expect the media to do is criticize him for the things he has done, not to create an ongoing narrative of lawlessness, which is what has been going on. I have never complained about people pointing out the the things that Cal has done that are actually worthy of disapproval, like the thing with the scholarships. “Package deals” were done all the time by many coaches including Rick Pitino and Bill Self, and were legal, so I question why Calipari should be singled out for that.

Lots of teams have one and dones, and Calipari has not had all that many in his career until this year. In fact, I have never heard of having four one-and-dones, and my supposition is we never will again. Only one of the four players were actually considered a one-and-done when they were recruited, so that’s pretty much invalid also.

Grades are a just criticism. Graduation rates are not — they are actually meaningless. We talk a lot about them, but sports fans, in reality, do not actually care about them, and neither does the NCAA. What sports fans and the NCAA do care about is passing school while you are in school, and not just by the skin of your teeth. The NCAA also gigs you for dropouts and having kids for four years without a degree. Those are legitimate, in my view.

Finally, if we are going to criticize Calipari for NCAA violations by players during times that they were out of his direct control, should we not be more critical of felony lawbreaking by players? But we aren’t — Pearl was unscathed by the Tyler Smith stuff, and despite rampant lawlessness at Florida, very few actually use that as a criticism of Urban Meyer.

At the end of the day, we have a double standard. That’s what I object to, and will continue to object to.

It comes at a cost however.

welcome to ASoB. I see you just joined.

I agree.

I agree also.

but where were all these coaches with that thinking when we had to settle for Gillispie?

When this whole maelstrom of Coach Cal and the NBA started up, where was it said or written that Cal even wanted to coach in the NBA again?

That’s a bit surprising.

Interesting quotes at the link. It’s tempting, I agree.

… there are a few members of A Sea of Blue who really are a challenge at times. Trying to keep the tone of the site reasonable and still allow dissent within the rules is a very hard thing to do.

Most places don’t even try — when a person gets too distracting, they just take away their ability to comment and move on. Trust me, that is tempting sometimes.

I try very hard to maintain a welcoming environment for fans of all programs, and event those with a bone to pick with Kentucky as long as they do so in a reasonable manner and don’t bait. Nobody will ever know how much of my baldness is due to pulling my hair out and nearly biting my virtual tongue off to keep from losing it at someone.

Believe me, I know where you’re coming from.

Calipari will always have his detractors, and I try to embrace the hate. I sometimes fail. But then again, writing about stuff like this is, “what keeps ’em coming back,” so to speak, so I guess that’s something.

Anyway, I feel you. I do.

… we do try to stay away from character assassination here. Pitino did some things that he has to live with, and we have discussed his indiscretions a lot.

But even if Pitino were demonstrably the worst person in sports, that does not make Calipari good. Calipari has to be defended, or not, on his merits, not in comparison to Louisville’s coach. Most of Calipari’s detractors would stipulate that Rick Pitino behaved atrociously, including most Louisville fans.

And that’s an important thing. Louisville fans mostly don’t try to defend what Pitino did, and Pitino’s actions do not mean that Louisville fans can’t comment on their perceptions of Coach Cal. It’s easy to dismiss them on the grounds that their coach’s behavior removes their moral authority to comment, but that’s both facile and wrong. We can’t defend coach Calipari by saying, “but Pitino is worse.”

But we can point out the media hypocrisy in attacking Calipari over his vacated Final Fours. As much as a few others will protest that it is the sum of Cal’s alleged sins that are the difference, that argument isn’t even being made, which has been my point all along. And to the extent it is made, we are mostly talking about legal activity that is ethically questionable, and some coaches who are seen as “honorable” have actually done worse things.

In the end, it’s all just a matter of opinion anyway, and when we hang that eighth banner, it will be a real pleasure thumbing our collective noses at the naysayers. :-)

Glad to have you with us.

there have been a few slings and arrows sent his way. We (UK fans cough not all cough) are just rising to his defense.