Kentucky Basketball: The Needle and the Damage Done
by Glenn Logan on Apr 8, 2010 9:23 AM EDT
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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PrintI've seen the needle and the damage done;
A little part of it in everyone;
But every junkie's like a setting sun ...
--Neil Young, Needle and the Damage Done
For the first time ever, Kentucky finds itself in the position of potentially watching five players leave the team early to play professionally, presumably in the NBA. This has now been mostly made official by UK, with the exception of Patrick Patterson -- his mother told Kentucky Sports Radio that Patrick will take a week or two to make his final decision, so it isn't fait accompli in his case quite yet.
For those of us who have been following the Kentucky program for many years, this is a novel development. UK has been a long time without a first-rounder in the draft, let alone up to five. The departure of 75% of our minutes and 80% of our scoring from an Elite Eight season must be gnawing at the bones of Wildcat fans everywhere.
Of course, there are those who want to think of Kentucky as a junkie, addicted to winning on one-and-done talent. Let them, they are wrong and they don't care about being right. Kentucky is addicted to good college basketball, whether it be through one-and-done's or guys like the Suffocats, very few of whom made a splash in the NBA and most of whom stayed all four years. That's the reality, and if that is an addiction, I am proud to have that monkey on my back.
Predictably, the love from the sportswriters and bloggers is just beginning to come in. Welcome to the Brave New Kentucky. I don't know about you, but I thoroughly enjoyed this season and these players, and if they are all good enough to get drafted in the first round of the NBA Draft, I wish them all Godspeed, and share in their hopes and dreams for success. Once a Wildcat, always a Wildcat.
As you might expect, this will only enable the unethical and loudmouthed Bob Knight. I didn't hear about this anywhere, but Earl Cox of the Voice Tribune has it memorialized for us:
Knight, as usual, took off after the University of Kentucky. Oh, he didn’t mention UK and coach John Calipari by name, but he didn’t have to. Everyone listening knew exactly who Knight was talking about when he said, "One-and-dones are garbage. And the NCAA should put a stop to it."
Of course, the "one-and-dones" have nothing whatever to do with the NCAA, and whether Knight knows that or not is irrelevant -- he should know it. It is his responsibility as a sports commentator to know his facts before leveling this type of assault. My take is that he just doesn't care, as long as he gets to aim his high-and-mighty shotgun mouth at UK.
Earl goes on to worry about the players who are taking their leave finishing the year in good academic standing, and although I believe they all will, it is a worthwhile concern. But I think that Calipari will make darn sure that they do, because the consequences will be not just to the UK team, but to his own reputation, which is hardly glowing in the eyes of ... well, nearly everyone but UK fans, justified or not.
So should we worry about this mass exodus, dear brother and sister of the Big Blue Nation? I don't think so, and I'll give you my reasons:
- As I said before, this season is an anomaly. The 2009 recruiting class was chock full of one-and-done talent, and that is just unusual. You see it every few years, but it isn't a year-in and year-out thing.
- From what I have seen, the vast majority of players that UK is involved with this year are not good enough to leave after one year. I think we can get used to seeing one and perhaps two players leave early per year. That's just the reality of Calipari's recruiting philosophy. This year, as I keep saying, is not normal.
- UK will not be as good next year as this. This is a prediction, not a fact, but based on what I have seen of the potential incoming players, UK will be very good (Top 10-25) in 2010-11, but if things work out like I believe they will, we will be looking at another really good shot at a championship in 2011.
- The recruiting of players like Stacy Poole, who are clearly not one year players, is how Coach Cal will build the experience base necessary to go along with the young talent. Our class situation right now is unbalanced (assuming the 5 players do leave) -- 3 juniors, a sophomore and a senior next year with up to 8 freshmen. As we begin to retain more players from each class, this will give us a better mix of classes and stagger departures. Once again, this points up the unusual nature of this class.
- Don't give up on Calipari's philosophy after one unusual year. If we can put up with Billy Gillispie's under-achievement for two years, surely we can give a guy a chance who got us to the Elite Eight in his very first try.
- We have to trust these young men to finish their classwork and leave in good standing. If they fail to do so, we can be critical then. For now, let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
Next year will be a "starting over" thing, but it will be just as exciting for all that. You know UK is going to have great talent, and I am telling you (and you can believe me or not) but more of it will be sticking around for another bite or two at the apple.
None of us wanted to see this mass exodus happen. We have become emotionally attached to these players (just as we should) and they have given us so many great moments that you hate the idea that you won't get to see them play together again. You chafe over the fact that if they did come back, UK would be a prohibitive favorite to win their eighth National Championship, and it galls you that the brass ring is so near, yet so impossibly far given the realities of college basketball today.
It's a tough pill to swallow, but swallow it we must. There will be a surprise or two, I expect, and hopefully more good ones than bad. This has been a magical season. Let's put our disappointment behind us and get behind these fine young men as they go forth to chase their dream.
Once a Wildcat, always a Wildcat.
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I wish to all that is Holy that everyone would just shut up about this
“one and done” crap. My God, you would think that the man defaced the White House or something. All of this whining, griping, bithcing, and moaning about how are we going to replace these guys, how will we get back to the top, where is this all going to lead???
People, it’s basketball, more importantly than that, it’s Kentucky Basketball. We will continue long after these fools figure out how to fix the “one and done”, after they destroy the tournament and put 250 teams in it. We will endure as long as there is one guy in a blue sweatshirt and sweatpants standing outside the practice facilities on a Sunday, hoping to get an autograph for his 5 yr old that loves to do nothing but play basketball. We will always be at the forefront of this sport in one way or another, albeit inventing new ways to drive our opposing coaches and the pundits mad because we figured out a way around the NCAA’s next insane rule, or because we are adding our 15th NC Trophy to the case with a picture of Coach Steve Masiello (liked that one didnt ya?), surrounded by all of his players including some freshman center by the name of Cousins who’s dad played here years ago.
We are larger than all of this…..that is why this is such nonsense. When all of this is over, we will still be here, larger than ever, and twice as loud. The one and done is nothing more than another part of the history of the game.
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 8, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Hey, I'll support Tink on this one.
I think it is entirely fair to have an opinion that loading up one’s team like this past year isn’t how you’d want your university represented. Fair or not, there is plenty of media, coaches, and the basketball world in general holding their noses about this. Some fans may not like it and I get it. Fair citicism or not.
On a personal note, I think it’s kind of weird for a grown dad to ask an 18 year old for an autograph. I don’t care who that 18 yr old kid happens to be. It’s kind of creepy.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
might be, but it happens every day here in Kentucky......so I guess we just have to live with it
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
You know ...
… This makes me wonder — If signing quality basketball players to play college ball is wrong, what would be the right thing to do? Tell them to go muck up some other school with their skill?
And what if all colleges took this approach, and upon what basis would they take it? “Ah, he’s to good to stay, we gotta pass on him.”
How would this be good thing, exactly? Upon what foundation would we rest the proposition that we only want players who are going to stay in school. And if we make that statement, should we not also make it for the rest of the students?
I just don’t see what point you are trying to make here, or how it could be implemented.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I'm treading on some shaky ground here, but from my understanding...
…the NBA collective bargaining agreement doesn’t state ‘that a high school graduate basketball player must spend at least one year in college before the draft’. My understanding is that there are other options that the player can take before entering the draft. He can go to another league, he can go the the NBADL (which may ultimately be the best choice), or he can take a year off.
I am not necessarily saying that it is wrong to sign 5 one and done players and I certainly don’t think Cal knew that would be the case when he got them. But I do think it’s fair to have an opinion that this past year was a little much, if you will (WARNING enter provoking area here….especially combined with booting out a number of other players in good standing to make room for them).
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
not when compared to our previous 3-5 seasons of no accomplishments....
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
It doesn't have to be either/or.
There is a happy medium on how to get better or have proud accomplishments.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
understood, but the man fixed an IMMEDIATE problem
and is now working to fix a long term problem…..this situation had 2 facets to it, and that is what no one seems to grasp. Taking the kids he did last year was a no brainer, because it got the fans behind the rebuilding project immediately. He now, because of his accomplishments is facing another similar situation, in a talent pool that is not as rich as last year’s.
This is like asking for money when you are in desperate need of a loan and then turning around and saying you want to know who printed the money, why they printed it, and what they wanted to accomplish with it, and if you are not satisfied with their answers, turn down the money you need.
We got EXACTLY what we asked for, immediate success, regaining our prominence, and have ourselves at the forefront of reloading again. These kids may not be quite as talented as the last bunch, but that is to be expected. We have already signed 2, got our foot in the door on several more, and appear to be leading for the #1 remaining recruit. Add in some role players and problem is solved. But to take role players instead of superstars is NOT the answer.
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
Again, I don't think this is either/or (role players v. superstars).
I don’t think anyone can make a claim that Cal didn’t have immediate success this year (defined as total wins?). I do think the question is opened whether this is the answer to fixing a longer term problem. The jury is still out on that one. I think we have seen many an instance to a quick fix is rarely a long term answer and often causes even more problems.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I don't think Cal thought Bledsoe and Orton would be 1ndone.
Most people did not. Bledsoe was a no. 23 prospect under 1 service, not in the top of others.
Orton was a top 20 guy, but no higher than 14 or 16 with anyone, and he was coming out of HS without playing his sr year due to knee injury.
The mix of 1ndone and 2-4 year guys was already in place in theory. It just did not work out that way.
I agree
Think of Orton if Billy Clyde was still the coach and Liggins or Galloway was the point, do you think he’d be one and done. John Wall made everyone around him better, including Bledsoe.
Cal didnt think he'd be losing 5 this yr.
and I really feel that he encouraged the others to leave because he thought he had a REAL chance to win it all this yr, even tho he downplayed it. I hate to beat a dead horse, but if WV didnt shoot lights our from 3 and we didnt shoot so poorly(take 2 away from WV and add 2 to our total) we wouldnt be having this discussion.
by bigbill992001 on Apr 8, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
To the NBA rule thing:
Yeah, there’s that great PG on, uh, Utah? Dallas? I can’t recall right now, but I think they played a year of pro-ball in Spain before going to the NBA .. Devon Williams, I think? So you don’t have to go to college as a great HS athelete. But the advantages of college are pretty sweet.
I think the problem comes
When you market your school as a place to play one year and then move on to the NBA. None of us know what Calipari uses as his recruiting pitch, but, what.. this is 3 years running that he’s had to replace his best players with one-and-done talent. That, and let us be honest: the sportswriters, the bloggers, Bob Knight all want to see College Basketball preserved (the writers following the sport, that is) and made more awesome and really, who cares about the NBA? You can’t get too mad at them because the one-and-done rule does have very big flaws.
Besides, to say that this is all talent-based is a bit absurd, I think. There’s very, very little reason to think — after this season — that Orton is NBA-ready. I think Bledsoe should stay another year too. Wall and Cousins both are ready, but also both have their problems. Those problems are small enough (microscopic, in Wall’s case) that teams are very right in throwing money at them now.
Of course, there are those who want to think of Kentucky as a junkie, addicted to winning on one-and-done talent. Let them, they are wrong and they don’t care about being right.
So, what, it’s now “Think like us or you’re wrong!!”? There’s good reason for people to have that basis, considering a) Cal’s tendency to recruit one-and-done players and b) this season. Calipari certainly has room to change that image, as you’ve stated, but until then there is reason for people to question the strategy.
I’d also be really impressed if Patrick Patterson comes back. I’ve always loved the guy’s dedication. For the record that is a guy who cares about wearing the UK Blue, and while he’s certainly far deluded on the proper color to wear when ballin’, gotta respect that.
a) Cal’s tendency to recruit one-and-done players
If you look at Cal’s recruiting history he has really only recruited a small number of one and dones when you look at the total sum of everyone he has recruited overall. This would lead me to belive that what Cal really has is a tendency to recruit the best talent available not that he has some obsession with recruiting one and done players.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 8, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, Cal's recruiting history HAS been limited.
The rule has only been in place four years. For everyone.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
And I would wager
That Cal has more 1 and Done players than anyone else, even before this season. Obviously part of that is getting the top talents, but it is plenty of reason to claim that he has a tendency to go after, get, and rely on players who will only be in his system for a year.
Not counting this year --
Ohio State had more 1’nDones than Cal at Memphis.
Memphis: Wagner (before the rule), Rose and Evans (3)
Ohio State: Conley, Oden and Cook. Then Koufos and then Mullens (5)
UCLA and UNC have had several – certainly 2.
Good info.
The Ohio State guys were not good enough to be one and dones, imo, though maybe that’s remembering Tennessee should-have beating them twice and seening Chism completely neutralize Oden inside.
Tru
this is my last word on this because well obviously i am in the extreme miniorty on here…..but I think getting players to stay is my issue. Its not to stop recruitng the Walls dang we so needed him this year. Cousins was so needed as well and I think it help Patterson because he became a much more versatile player. We needed everyone of these players. But man did it cost us after the season. No way we can fill eight spots with 5 stars. I think a couple of five stars a year mixed in with solid fours. Of course well then comes the coaching part…….GET THEM TO STAY Awhile if you are looking depleted if they left. Hey I know its not reasonable but I have never been a reasonable fan. Like I was trying to say……..my love for Kentucky messes with the brain part of it. Yes Hobo I said it again! Heck I have come a long way though, I always resented Rick because he wouldn’t go after the Kentucky boys. Even Tubby a little too……I thought their hearts could outweigth the talent…….I was wrong. Saw it several times over the years since Darius Miller is the best prospect we have had in years from Kentucky. I’m growing……..trying to anyway…….just give me time. :)
get them to stay.
I don’t think Coach should get them to stay, I hope he doesn’t try and I don’t think he will. It’s not his job to try to “keep” the players.
This probably isn’t the best example, but it’s all I could think of at the moment : ), but would a chemistry professor try to keep or fail his students simply because he doesn’t want an empty lab? Certainly not. Coach is a professor of sorts and his job is primarily to prepare these young men for their next step in life. And if he does his job well, as he did this past year by first recruiting the best-of-the-best and then by assisting them in improving their games, well, they will move on to that next stage.
Truth of the matter is that Coach Calipari won’t be getting the cream of the crop every year (either the top talent won’t want to come to UK or he might not want to actively recruit them for some reason), so some years his job will require that he works with a player for more than a year, and that will be just fine, too, but it shouldn’t be his goal to keep the players, or to talk them into staying at UK, IMO.
And btw, take all the time you need. Your passion on this issue is very admirable, even if I don’t agree. : )
Ten and I
are in the same boat. Before the “one and done” rule. It was the coaches job to recruit and “keep players” I know this is over. But give us time to adjust!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
I know one thing Bruce Pearl did
With Tyler Smith was have Tyler go through a really “intense” workout after his .. sophore or junior season, I really can’t remember which. Tyler Smith said that he came away from that understanding he still had a lot of work to do, but the B. Pearl had told him also to do what he thought he needed to do. That’s about the most I’ve ever heard of a Coach trying to get a player to stay, and in Tyler’s case it was the right move.
Um.. I think you might mean "Tenk" ;)
I am in complete and total support of recruiting the best talent available – if that means one and dones, I say, “Sign them up!”
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 8, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
all 5 were NOT one and done locks when recruited...
and for the record, Cal never had more than 1 one and done per year at memphis.
now if it happens more than 1 year, then it probably needs to be discussed but extrapolating this year’s experience is a waste of time..
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Apr 8, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes sir
Exactly, people need to wake up and quit freaking out. Yes it would be great to see any combination of these guys return but we are about to reload over the next two years and build a great team that will continue to contend for titles.
I don't
feel my opionion is crap. I feel the way I do because I love my Cats. Everyone has an opionion on this matter and I wouldn’t say your opionion is crap because I disagree.
Well
Just because some disagree with you their love of the Cats should be questioned. History is rife with diverse opinions, strategies and actions directed at the same goal. Even our great nation has multiple political parties – each with a different plan to keep USA #1.
Well
you keep on saying, “I feel this way because I love my cats” which would insinuate that because we feel the opposite way we do not.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 8, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
that you took what I said and twisted it. In another post I said " i wish they loved Kentucky as much as I do"……..is that what you are talking about………I made that comment about specifically Orton and Bledsoe……two guys that may not even get drafted. I stand by that comment. I know they love Kentucky but not the way you and I do…….not possible. Passionate about Kentucky the way we are no way…….just not possible when staying for one year. But I NEVER SAID one thing about a fan’s lack of love because of an opposing view and personally I am tired people getting smacked around because they are concerned about future………listen I road this thing out all year and celebrated and am dang proud of my Cats. There is not one kids on this year’s team that I don’t love and appreciate. There is not one player on this team that I am not thankful for that they came because without them we would have been in a heap of trouble. I will forever be greatful. I just wish they had the same loyalty that some others have had and stayed. Lawson/Hansborogh are prime examplest that I have stated.
Loyalty
That is where we disagree – questioning their loyalty. Just because they choose to go ahead and pursue their dreams (and dont risk injury) does not mean that they are not loyal. To me that is an unfair situation to put them in. “Either stay here and play longer or go on and be disloyal.”
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 8, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Edge
here that I am trying to explain. Maybe loyalty is too strong…..Let me just say as bad as I detested North Carolina…..I loved that Lawson/Hansborogh came back. I loved that PP came back even though it didn’t improve his draft stock. That is the kind of heart that I want Kentucky players to have…….again Cousins…..don’t want him back because I am afraid for his health. Wall, makes no sense for him to come back. I have issue with Bledsoe/Orton.
As KBG said
your reasoning for your opinion is because you love the Cats – and, yes, you’ve said it more than once. This insinuates that an adverse opinion could not be based on love of the Cats. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, you’ve never been one to slam people, it just came across with that tinge – we’ll blame the nature of internet blogging and move on. OK?
This eats me up inside...
…because it will only make people scoff more loudly. I had this exact conversation recently:
mev: “Kentucky is not a one-and-done school.”
Hater: scoff
mev: scoff right back
Kentucky is addicted to good college basketball, whether it be through one-and-done’s or guys like the Suffocats, very few of whom made a splash in the NBA and most of whom stayed all four years. That’s the reality, and if that is an addiction, I am proud to have that monkey on my back.
SO TRUE! Kentucky’s one and done? Then explain to me how I was able to drink a beer across the bar from Ramel Bradley for four years—arguably the team leader when he left. The one-and-don’ers at UK are forgettable guys from the college perspective. Most of what I remember of Rondo was the Sparks girlfriend controversy…and he wasn’t a “one-and-done” anyway, as I recall. Patrick Patterson will be a legend and a guaranteed retired jersey if he stays four years…where are Mercer, McCarty, and Walker hanging from the rafters? Come on people!
Sorry; had to vent! This exact problem frustrates the hell out of me.
An Illini riding on a wildcat...how flippin' sweet is that?!
Thanks for the salve for our wounds Tru =)
Bobby Knight, however, should go jump in a creek. He never had any control over his temper or what flies out of his big mouth. I wish he’d just shutup already.
And I particularly ‘love’ this quote from the lockhart article
Penalties for one and done players would stem the problem quickly.
And how so?
Anyway, we’ll have a competitive team next year. Maybe not as good talent wise……but that’s not to say we couldn’t go further in the tourney next year. I’m not so disillusioned that I believe Cal’s a recruiting robot and will automatically fill these spots with equal talent. This year’s team was just so special and so fun to watch. It’ll be
Awesome write-up
I too am not worried. I like the recruits we are likely to get next year and the year after. I have no doubts that we can content for the title every year under Calipari and that includes this coming season.
I mentioned the Bobby Knight comments
It was my commment (the last one) on the game thread.
Just saying, it was discussed. On this site.
http://www.aseaofblue.com/2010/4/5/1406808/national-finals-open-game-thread#33929617
You’re welcome.
remember
not many thought Bledsoe and Orton would be one-and-done, so some of these guys coming in that don’t seem like the type, could be by the end of the season. having said that, i agree that this year was an anomoly spurred by the overall talent of the freshmen and the looming shadow of a potential lockout. prior to this season, Cal has not seen this kind of exodus from his programs. he has a history of the occasional oners, but his best teams have had the mix mentioned above.
if there is a lockout, maybe it will work in our favor. having guys like Knight, Jones, and Kanter for two seasons would be wonderful.
i've been waiting for this moment all my life...but it's not quite right.
potential lockout.
That is exactly what I was just going to say. In a normal year, there is a good chance that Orton and Bledsoe might not have declared, but with the potential lockout looming, well, it might very well have them running scared and thinking they simply must try to get the money while it is there. That makes me sad, that that kind of burden is on the shoulders of 18-19 year old kids, but such is life, I suppose.
And yes, I agree, the potential lockout might be the reason that we are saying goodbye to a more than usual amount of players this year, but if it does occur, the change in NBA CBA could very well work in our (UK’s) favor in the next few years.
Also, Tru — totally agree with all 6 of your bullet points and, as a matter of fact, I was nodding my head in agreement as I was reading this entire piece. Good stuff. : )
I think some UK fans’ worries about the future are legitimate, but instead of worrying about what could possibly be detrimental (and what we have no control over anyway, btw) I choose to focus on what good things still lie ahead for us UK fans. I’m pretty sure 1 1/2 years into the Billy Gillispie era no one, and I mean no one could have predicted the awesomeness that we were about to witness during the ‘09/’10 season and the fabulous players that we would get to "meet" and I want to believe that there is more awesomeness just around the corner.
I should also note, in addition to the points I raised immediately below,
That I agree with all your bullets as well, Tru.
It might be good for someone to note that 1 of these 5
Is Patrick Patterson. He was already here, he will graduate and can not be considered in any form a “1 and doner”
Also, as sb here notes, no one really considered either Orton or Bledsoe to be “1 and doners’” either. Why is Calipari being excoriated for developing them into legitimate pro prospects? Further, its certainly possible, though perhaps not likely, that one or either of them may not have their draft expectations met and could return. I don’t believe either has hired an agent yet.
“Garbage”? That’s the content of Bobby Knight’s analysis.
knight is not going to let the facts get in the way of a good story....
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Apr 8, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Where was the outrage?
Where was the outrage toward Harvard for recruiting the ultimate “one-and-done”, Bill Gates?
How about throwing a mud pie at Illinois for admitting Larry Ellison? All he did was leave early and found the Oracle Corporation.
Or raking Cal-Berkeley over the coals for the “one-and-done” Steve Wozniak, who left to co-found Apple Computer?
Where was Bobby Knight when Steve Jobs left Reed College to hook up with Wozniak at Apple?
The point is that exceptional talent doesn’t belong in college, it’s a waste of time. Exceptional talent belongs in the real world pursuing opportunity, not sitting in the back of a lecture hall listening to Professor Crankcase drone on about 18th century diet habits. This applies to John Wall as well as Bill Gates.
Bobby Knight is a blowhard with that West Point “my way or the highway” philosophy combined with the grouchy old man syndrome.
by BlueCollarMan on Apr 8, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes, yes. Exactly right.
Knight is promoting his own nobility. I tried to say, “They should all stay four.” several years ago, but it’s baloney. The kind of money that these kids can get can/will (won’t always-see Issel and Walker) change not only their lives but their children’s and grandchildren’s, too. As long as it’s not immoral, take the dough.
I still do not like a system that allows/promotes that, but the world won’t change because I’d like it to, and no matter how important Bob Knight thinks he is, it won’t change because of his opinion either.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
Beauty.
Love it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Apr 10, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
i contend wall was the only lock as a one and done in the preseason...
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Apr 8, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent points, Tru
.
All of them. Especially about this being an unusual class. We are not going to lose 5 guys early to the NBA every year. And in only two cases (Bledsoe, Orton) is it even unexpected. We knew exactly what could happen with Wall and Cousins before they even played their first game for us. As such, their time at UK even turned out better (and more fun!) than I even thought it would. Those guys were a joy.
And if we think 5 leaving is bad, with Henry leaving Kansas it should be remembered that a large number of us were even salivating at getting him, as well. And that would have possibly lead to us having 6 guys leave early for the draft.
There is nothing broken here. And even if there was, I like the odds of Coach Cal fixing it.
As for Knight. Instead of lamenting the sorry state of college basketball from his self-appointed throne of righteousness, why doesn’t he try to do something to make it better? He could always come out with a public statement that he is interested in taking the very next job that becomes available in the Ivy League. Since he is such a basketball genius and man of honor who follows all of the rules and graduates noble young men who show their “loyalty” by staying for 4 years, I am sure that all of the Ivy League schools would jump at the chance to associate with such a man.
Or would they?
-- Tim . http://HomeSalesLexington.com/barn
Bobby Knight......what a joke....
I have a picture of him here somewhere, but I cant remember where it is…..oh wait….I know…..it’s one of these from my last lower colonoscopy…..
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
don't remember
Someone may need to correct me, but I only remember Wall as being a “one and done” candidate at the beginning of the year. I seem to recall most people thinking Cousins could be very good, but he needed a lot of maturing. No one, not even Bledsoe, thought he would be in the position he enjoys today. No one had any idea that Orton had this as an option—many still don’t think he does. Patterson still shows us that he is a complex individual that is worth all the love we can give him.
by BluebloodinNaptown on Apr 8, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are correct
We knew full well he would only stay one year. I think……John Wall might have been eligible to go straight to the NBA because his age? But he had promised his father he would attend college. Now someone may need to correct me too. And you are definitely correct about PPat, as he deserves all the love.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
yes, yes, yes....
only wall was a one and done lock….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Apr 8, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
BluebloodinNaptown, you could be right about Cousins
.
My memory isn’t the greatest, but I always thought is was a possibility, if not a likelihood. That ended in the middle of the season when he became the biggest Beast in the entire country. I would definitely go broke if I tried to handicap at the beginning of the season exactly how all of this would have panned out.
Which I think is the point. We just don’t know how a season will go, and what position players will put themselves into by the end of it. Or what decisions they will make. It just so happened that this season played out the way it did, and now 5 guys are leaving early. Upcoming seasons will play out however they do.
My plan is to just enjoy these guys for however long we have them, and then wish them well whenever it is best for them to leave. I know one thing, they are going to go out and be great ambassadors for UK, and just like every young player who watched MJ throughout his NBA career always knew that he had played for UNC, the names “UK” and “John Wall” will go together throughout his pro career, as well.
I don’t know what percentage of teenage high school players across the country could have pointed to Lexington on a map a few years ago. I don’t see that being a problem anymore.
-- Tim . http://HomeSalesLexington.com/barn
by HSLex on Apr 8, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
KNIGHT TO CORNELL!!!!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Well.... there you go, blbskue!
With Steve Donahue leaving for BC, it does seem as if Knight would be an outstanding choice.
A basketball genius who graduates his players and follows all of the NCAA rules, paired with an Ivy League university.
What more could they want?
-- Tim . http://HomeSalesLexington.com/barn
They will have players flooding the Ivy League to get to play for Knight!!!!
I do so hope!!…..lmao
Does Knight solve Rubik’s Cubes, or throw them???
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
For one,
Isiah Thomas didnt stay at IU for 4 yrs was he a jr. or soph?
by bigbill992001 on Apr 8, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point, bigbill992001
.
I totally forgot about that.
But “two-and-done” must be quite a bit different from “one-and-done”.
Maybe while one-and-done is “garbage”, two-and-done is not quite to garbage status, maybe it is just “junk from your garage that you might be able to get a neighbor to pay $0.50 for at a garage sale.”
-- Tim . http://HomeSalesLexington.com/barn
LOL
I like that :) Of course we’d all rather have 2 and done, but it is what it is now, we cant go back. PPat confuses me , tho. He will grad soon, went to the seniors day, and now he’s not sure he’s leaving? Cal needs to know PPat’s decision sooner than later, he has a scholarship available……….or not? PPat’s had a long time to think about this, so what’s the delay? You’re IN or you’re OUT! I’d love it if he’s IN, but tell us NOW!
by bigbill992001 on Apr 9, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Bobby Knight was off...but only somewhat.
The NCAA could do something penal in regards to one-and-done if they wanted. For example, I have seen discussions that Orton can finish the year in good standing from California. If true, that determination or classification is way too loose in regards to keeping a future scholarship.
So, the NCAA could tighten their rules in order to discourage coaches from recruiting a roster full of one-and-dones. Therefore, the NCAA can’t hide behind the skirts of the NBA and claim ‘it ain’t our fault’.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
you really think the NCAA has the stones to do it Hoze?
I mean, they could have come along and done it already if they so chose. I just think the NCAA loves the TV time and the recognition that comes with these kids and doesnt want to do anything to rock the boat.
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
They could...
… except for the fact that they only recently loosened them.
It used to be that early departures were punished by the loss of the retention point. That has recently been changed by the NCAA to allow schools to get the retention point if an athlete goes pro and leaves in good standing.
So while Knight is technically right, that ship has sailed. He knows it.
Maybe he should put his name in for NCAA president or something. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
My point wasn't to defend Knight. He is an ass.
My point is that the NCAA could do something if they wanted. This wouldn’t be the first time that a regulatory agency set laws or rules that appeared to be right in principle, but didn’t see the reality until afterwards and made more adjustments. So in that regard, they can turn the ship around and dry dock it for some more repairs., right mate-y?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I got that, and that's true.
My point is that they have already tried that, and decided not to do it any more. Which means that, like prohibition, the idea was found wanting after it had been in place a while.
The upshot of all that is that is this: Why would the NCAA do something it has already tried and rejected? It wouldn’t. Therefore, claiming it should do what it has already explicitly done and subsequently rejected is cursing the darkness.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I don't know.
I don’t see the NCAA as a locomotive running down the track without a reverse gear or even a ship set to sail. Instead, I see them as a miniature taxi cab driving around in haphazard circles with about 5 midget clowns crammed into it.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Analysis of potential problems with recruiting multiple one-and-dones
I do think there are some potentially serious problems with recruiting multiple one-and-dones. Tactically, you are constantly having to rework your offensive and defensive schemes to accommodate players that will not be able to learn a system over a few years. It worked this year, but it cannot work every year. Operationally, you’re always having to deal with potential team chemistry issues that you cannot truly foresee while recruiting. Strategically, I wonder about the potential impact on 4-year players who are annually being bumped by younger, more talented usurpers. Again, it seemed to work this year, but how many PPat’s are there that will readily take a back seat to the new kid when the team is supposed to be yours? And, what about Stevenson and Harris, who likely could have started for nearly every other team in the SEC? They went from being starters and significant contributors to practically getting only “human victory cigar” minutes.
Bottom line, I cannot fault Cal for doing what he did. He did not want to slowly rebuild the program; he believed he needed to immediately restore UK to the top of the college basketball world. Yet, if he does it again, does it become the only way he can even field a team because he keeps losing too many players year after year? That will eventually run into the problems I detail above. Another strategic concern is whether this formula can ever produce a national championship — there are no prior examples to show that it can.
Coach Cal got lucky this year and produced an exciting team that reestablished Kentucky basketball, reinvigorated the fan base, and created a buzz about UK basketball in the minds of elite high school players around the country. All good things. But, if he cannot sustain this, then he just Tubby’d himself by setting an expected standard for future years.
If Tru is right and this year was an anomaly and not a trend, then we can look forward to good, experienced teams sprinkled with exciting young talents.
Good piece
I can hardly blame any of these players for leaving if they can get drafted in the first round. You have to imagine that this is turning the heads of a lot of potential recruits. I still am not convinced that Bledsoe and Orton are ready and maybe a few NBA tryouts will adjust their thinking. Regardless, I’m certain we’ll be bringing in some major talent for next year and while our team may not be as good as this year’s model, it will still be a lot of fun.
could have had more losses.
I think it’s important to keep in perspective that, yes, we did have this awesome team, but that we probably should have had way more than 3 losses. Miami-Ohio, Stanford, UConn, UNC and Miss St. (twice) are all games that could have very easily gone the other way. Kentucky could have entered the tournament very easily with 8 losses, which would have meant no #1 seed.
I think that’s something to keep in mind next year as the new team comes in. Saying, “we’re not as good as we were in 2010” should really be said, “we’re not as LUCKY as we were in 2010”. I will gladly take a few more losses in the regular season if it means a deep run come March.
Are we over-thinking this...
Problem: Field a winning basketball program.
Solution: Recruit the best possible players and let the chips fall where they may…
Great point
Yes, too many of our Blue family are overthinking this. So many bashed Tubby for not getting “top shelf” talent. So many bashed Gillespe for… well everything. Coach Cal has recruited the best players and won a lot of games for our beloved Cats in one year. Remember, he came in with the cupboard not well stocked. While some of us are lamenting “one and done’s”, I’m guessing North Carolina is rethinking their non-recruitment of Mr. Wall. I also seem to remember that the purpose of college was to prepare me for a professional career. It’s not about the degree; it’s about the education and if these guys get enough education in one year to go on to a lucrative profession, why would we want to hold them back?
by BluebloodinNaptown on Apr 8, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If we'd won a championship, this column and other
posts wouldn’t have been written…..there wouldn’t have been any need. Winning tends to solve a lot of issues and with a championship in our pocket we’d have been wanting to give these guys a parade on their way to the NBA. One & done’s????……..BK could kiss our ass!!
Reality is that we have potentially 5 players off one team going in the first round of the NBA and didn’t win a championship. That’s a head scratcher in many ways especially when you consider the two teams that actually played in the championship. Experience over youth…yada yada.
Yes, we will ALWAYS want EVERY top recruit, that’s just part of being a UK basketball fan. We always wonder why some kid chose another school over our beloved UK….again that’s just reality.
Sooooooo……speaking only for myself after posting on last evening’s thread about my conflicted thoughts and reading through everyone’s comments on this one, I’ve concluded that I have to have faith in Coach Cal regarding the future and just let go of my disappointment over this year’s final result.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Getting rid of one n done has its problems.
Ask Pitino (UK signed Rondo, Pitino signed a PG that went to the NBA only to be replaced by Rondo 3 years later).
I would rather have the current rule than the prior rule when HS kids could declare. It wasn’t a problem with Tubby, but even Miss St had 2 or 3 recruits sign and then declare. Imagine if Cal had 5 signed recruits and 4 of them declared before stepping on campus. You can’t fix that kind of problem. There is no one left to recruit.
Of course, this is purely from an NCAA fan’s perspective. I admit it is somewhat unfair to the kid unless you make the rule “sign a LOI, can’t go to NBA until you play a year.” That is probably unenforceable, though maybe you could add monetary penalties.
It Wasn't A Problem With Pitino Either
Most of his UK recruits were NOT HS All_americans ready for the NBA from Day 1. Really only 2 were (Mercer, Walker), maybe 3 (Rhodes).
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 8, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree - sort of.
First, it has nothing to do with being ready for the NBA on day one. The draft is often about potential except for the very top picks.
Second, Pitino barely coached in that era. During Pitino’s years at UK, the HS players were not regularly going right into the NBA. Garnett was the first to start the modern trend in 1995. Kobe and O’Neil went in 1996. One guy in 1997 and 3 in 1998. Pitino was gone to the NBA after 1997. After 1998, it became more common.
Then in 2005 the new CBA put an end to it and we got the one and done rule.
Pitino then went to UL and recruited a point guard that signed with UL. After that, Rondo signed with UK. Then Pitino’s recruit decided to enter the draft. He got nothing at the point that year.
I guess my point is we never really considered whether players were NBA ready in year one in that era. In the modern era, who knows who would be considered NBA ready. Maglore did as much as Orton his frosh season. Certainly Walker, Mercer, Rhodes and Mashburn would be potential 1 and done players today.
Pitino
He doesn’t recruit the level of players that Calipari or Roy Williams does.
At UK (then) and U of L (now), he signs a few HS A-A (very few), some good All-St or All-City players, and a few lesser known but talented players.
Magloire as a freshman would NOT have been drafted. Orton will be.
Mashburn would not be 1 & Done now. It took him 2 or 3 years to develop into NBA level.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 8, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
On PPat...
I believe an undergraduate player is only allowed to submit his name into the draft one time and remove it. Therefore, the freshmen could potentially come back if by May 8th they withdrew their name. Because PPat submitted his name last year, that means once he submits his name this year – he is GONE.
given the type of person PPat is, it is not at all surprising that he understands the finality of submitting his name this time around. the other players has somewhat of a luxury in having the ability to withdraw if they see fit….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
Didn't PPat bask in the glory of Senior Day?
I don’t see any way he comes back. That would really be wrong.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
jack
PPat went to senior day, will grad soon, millions await him, signed up last yr, so he knows the drill. Now his mom says “not so fast, Cal”……..so I ask myself what’s he waiting on? It puts Cal between a rock and a hard place. Does he have another scholarship to offer or doesnt he?
by bigbill992001 on Apr 9, 2010 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions
next yr?
Hey, if PPat wants to come back and move inside, i’m all for it and I think most fans would be also. I see Enes as PF and we need a 5. With PPat’s experience, that would be a nice front line. I just want him to say he’s in or out NOW! Give Cal a break so he knows how many spots he has to fill.
by bigbill992001 on Apr 9, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want your questions all cleared up, call his mom.
I find it a little ironic that Larry Orton has gotten slammed over his perceived recent ‘parental involvement’, but Pat’s mom never seems to miss an opportunity to horn in. She has been front and center for 4 years…and yes, I am including his high school recruitment year. Makes one wonder if ‘no comment’ is in their vocabulary.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 8, 2010 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
his mom has never done anything out of line.....she has reacted to some out of line things done by others
but her behavior has been exemplary considering what Patterson has gone through
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
What Patterson has gone through?
Like what? Whatever it is or was, was it bad enough for his mommy to get involved…because that is how it seems. Yea, I agree that she didn’t do or act untoward, other than not find the necessary ability to muzzle herself. I just happen to believe Pat is mature enough and good enough to speak for himself….and probably more so than any other player I can think of.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 9, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, the 3 coaches in his time at UK are one thing.....the BCG debacle is another....
then having to learn a new position……most guys dont go through that in a pro career….much less college
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
I actually agree with you somewhat on that Hoze.
In this case, however, I believe she was contacted by Matt Jones. I dont really like when the player’s parents feel the need to “speak out” on things in the media – not much good can come of that and in my opinion it just makes them look bad and their sons look like mama’s boys. I dont think she is as bad (this year) as Jodie Meeks dad or Daniel Orton’s dad, but last year I would have totally agreed on the muzzle.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 9, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I indicate some reluctance to admit agreement with me.
It’s okay. It won’t hurt. Just think of it as another way to recognize and announce your own intelligence. :)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Oh, one other thought.
Why would ANY parent give Matt Jones or any other ‘media type’ their cell phone numbers?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Agreed Again!
Wow – I must be really intelligent today! ;)
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 9, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You are probably right regarding Pat's ability to speak for himself...
but, the way you worded your comments makes you sound like the one incapable of butting-out..
That would make for a real boring chat board, though.
‘I know I am, but what are you? I know I am, but what are you?’
Pee-Wee Herman
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Awesome!
I can’t believe it! A sense of humor shows up!
Very clever.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Apr 10, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Where's btcoop with his dead horse graphic when you need him?
I'm officially declaring myself eligible for the 2010 NBA draft.
I'm late to the party!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train coming your way.
Bob Knight
$5.00 says if Wall was at IU he has a different answer. I also wonder if it has to do with his sub .500 record against UK as I am not sure many teams had a winning record against Capt. Chairthrower
The Sporting News has this list of
I didn’t have time to look them up, but there are a few other freshmen on the list.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Quotes from J Calipari on the "ONE and DONE's"
“I am going to continue to get the best players out there, and if they do what we tell them to, and they play as a team, and they become one and dones, then so be it”
“When we started out this year we thought yeah, we had 1 one and done, maybe John Wall, but the guys did what we taught them, played great, and played great as a team and they all moved their draft stock up. When guys do that I will ENCOURAGE them to go to the draft.”
“Everybody’s worried about can you win with one and done players, if we made 2 more 3’s, then we would be in the final four, and everyone would be saying it is the way to go”
I get the feeling Coach isn’t real worried about what anyone thinks of his recruiting……lol
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
Good for coach!
If he was worried about what everyone else thought, then he wouldn’t deserve to occupy the illustrious potentate’s seat! Even though he doesn’t care what we think, he does show that he cares about all us headcase diehards. Great combination, IMO.
by BluebloodinNaptown on Apr 8, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's rewind a year a look at a small change.
Cal comes in and recruits the same players but this time they improve as he expected – a bit less than they did this year. Kentucky goes onto a 25 win season, makes it to the Sweet Sixteen then only Wall leaves early along with Patterson and everyone is now happy.
I guess Cal just needs to either get players that won’t develop so fast or not get such talented recruits. ;-)
hoboat...
that’s what i was thinking - wait until sec part of season during freshman year to really start coaching and then we get them back for soph yr… :)
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Apr 9, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article Tru
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train coming your way.
Really great post Tru-
Well written and says it all about this years team. Five players possibly going in the top twenty of the draft, seems impossible. These guys worked together for the common good of UK basketball, and will always be remembered for their accomplishments. I’m glad I got to see them play at the SEC tournament. They will always be one of my favorite teams ever. Best of luck to them all, and I’m looking towards who writes the next chapter of UK hoops… GO CATS!!!
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
Extra credit for the Neil Young reference-
One of the all time greats. I have almost everything he’s ever done on album, cassette, or cd. Even have an old Buffalo Springfield album. He was at the Ryman in Nashville just in the last couple of weeks, but I didn’t get to go. But for ASoB and the UK basketball program, I thought of this-
" we’ve been through,
some things together,
with trunks of memories
still to come…
we found things to do
in stormy weather,
long may you run…"
Long May You Run- Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
Heh.
We had seen that before somewhere on here about, about a month ago, I think.
Love that song.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
memories of C,S,N,Y...
let’s just put the initials of W,C, P, B, O up there too!!!…GREAT memories and no regrets!!!… happy to have had them in our Memory Lane!!!…what a gift those kids gave us!!!
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as much as you please."...Mark Twain.
As to next year's prospects,
let’s not count out the potential that Miller, Liggins, and Dodson could be major contributors to the star-led team in 10-11. Miller gained confidence during the year, nobody hustled more than Liggins in the minutes he got, and Dodson showed signs of being willing to play defense in both the SECT and the NCAA. Don’t discount these guys when we look at next year’s prospects. And, lest I forget him, even Jorts could be a contributor in the right circumstances. Would you have trusted him to take some of those missed 3s in the WV game? I would have. He ain’t fast, but he CAN shoot and we could have used some o’dat.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . .who spends himself for a worthy cause . . ."
+1
Maybe next yr we will see if he can ball or not.
by bigbill992001 on Apr 9, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah ...
… we are overlooking those guys a bit. They will get better, and they were pretty good this year, albeit up and down.
If they could all become consistent, some of the incoming supertalent might be coming off the bench.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Apr 10, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
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