Tony Greene: Gambler? Or Just A Lousy Ref?
by ALLBLUCAT on Mar 3, 2010 9:52 AM EST
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I know this is going to seem incendiary at best, and five years ago, I would never have even broached the subject. But based upon what has occurred in the NBA with their referees over the last year or two, this seems to carry more credibility than it did in the past. This site, http://istonygreeneonthetake.blogspot.com/ makes some interesting, if not condemning observations about games that Tony Greene has officiated this year.
Now, this is not a UK "homer" site. And it is not going to please everyone to read or hear that the possibility exists that some games in the SEC could be being controlled by referees instead of the players who play the games. But the last year or so, with it's "meager" at best officiating, has and will raise some eyebrows when it comes to how the outcomes of games are decided. There is no proof submitted, but just some in-depth analysis of how point spreads are being covered, and a lot of questionable calls. Now if this were isolated it would not receive much attention, but the level of professionalism in officiating all over college basketball has been weak at best this year. Suspensions have been handed down by some conferences, and anyone who has more than one SEC game on DVR can point out what are really bad calls going in all directions. Proof? No. Reasonable Doubt? Well, you be the judge.
This does bring to light an idea that I floated months ago concerning the NCAA and it's referees. These guys no longer need to be part-time, paid by the game contractors. they need to be employed full-time, trained constantly when they are not working games, and held to much higher standards than they are at present. It is time for the conferences, one and all, to make their referees start working for their money, a lot harder, smarter, and more professionally than they do now. And maybe if there are some questionable referees out there, then now is the time to address that issue, before it costs some hard working kid or coach their dream.
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If some kind of official investigation takes place, It will be more of a concern
Until then , we are resigned to knowing that refereeing has ALWAYS been iffy in the SEC, with many refs making it about themselves, and their personality, as opposed to out and out cheating for one side or another. On the other hand, if the guy is caught gambling on the games, then we hang him.
"all the way"
I agree, but is a blog held to any standards of journalistic responsibility?
These are very serious allegations; with far reaching implications.
"all the way"
Well, I will say this, one thing has to be done,
either the allegations need to be addressed either by an investigation, or by someon making a statement that the referees are above reproach by the SEC. But either way, more needs to be done to address the level of competency officiating-wise in college basketball. If there is nothing to this, then fine, address it as rubbish and move on, but as long as there are calls that are so obvious that everyone watching can see that they are being missed, then this is going to come up.
The simple solution is to address it with a program that entails education and training on all aspects of the position, both on and off the court.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
Hey, when you lose, it’s not coaching, or poor play, its the refs.
We watch the game from an evelated platform. They are at floor level, 10 BIG bodies flashing in and out of their sight.
No, I do not think the games are No I do not think the games are ‘fixed’. At least, not the one’s we win, right?
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Actually Paris, this is not so much about the wins and losses as it is the point spreads
and I cannot tell you for sure that this is happening, only that this blogger makes some really interesting points based upon the point spreads of the games in question. AND it’s not only Kentucky, as a matter of fact, this is about the quality of the referees in general throughout the SEC and even beyond. And you are right, we do watch from a different angle, so maybe the solution is to have a referee watching the broadcast version of the game, I am not sure, but you do make a valid point.
But this is not necessarily about blame for losing, but IF, and I say IF there are referees doing what the NBA referees have been up to, then something really does need to be done.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
ABC
Good post. Your idea of the refs. being full time. They are in NBA and still we have a problem. If a ref wants to control a game,either for his own importance or for money. It is easy. Most calls in any sport are judgement calls. They can and are wrong a lot. But they fall back on judgement!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
I think if they get training about positioning, what to really look for, how to handle these
bigger, faster players, It would help a lot. but the training has to be constant….make them spend every offseason in class learing about how to referee a game and not control it….learn how to be there without being seen…..the games just count for too much anymore to allow a guy who sells insurance in his off time to call the charge that determines the NCAA championship…..AND I SELL INSURANCE!!!
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
Checked out the site...
It’s nothing but the usual whining about officiating, except he’s made an entire blog about it because presumably he wants to stand out from all the other whiners. I think it’s very telling that he only covers the games that seem to him to prove his point. Those that don’t are oh-so-fortunately not televised or he was “unable to watch”. Also, just because this yahoo says some call or non-call was obviously wrong doesn’t mean that’s the case. That’s not evidence, that’s an opinion.
I do agree with you that the officiating is not that great. I don’t think it is an ethical problem, I think it is an ability problem — they’re not cheating, they just aren’t all good. Like you, I think the entire system needs to be changed, and they need to be professionals held to a high standard.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I think that if you look at every game, you will always find something that sticks out really bad.
Now, not all games are refereed by the same people, so that tends to lend itself more to the idea that they are simply not trained properly. I was impressed to see that the blogger did not just focus on one team’s struggles with Greene’s calls. I dont think it is as much evidence as it is some really interesting “conincidences”?? Some teams beating the spread regularly dont make me think twice…..some others, well???
I wont necessarily characterize it as whining because he does cite games in great detail. Whiners dont usually do that, they just stand and yell into the darkness expecting a response back. But you are right, there is no imperical data, hard evidence, etc, because, as oldcat said above, these are always going to be judgement calls. but I have seen some really, REALLY bad judgement calls this year, and they are not all about the boys in Blue, either good or bad.
It does point to it being time to make changes though.Wholesale changes of some kind, either in how the system is put together, or in how calls are made, one or the other.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
I cannot say I am sold on the idea of the gamblers, but the point spread idea has some
bearing in the context of how poor the officiating has been. If it is not point spreads being manipulated, then we truly have a serious problem with the quality of officiating in college basketball that needs to be addressed.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
I think he just sucks that bad
Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dips**ts.
Now what would the University Of Kentucky, its athletes and coaches know abut the ‘point spread’? I don’t bet on games so I really don’t care the margin of victory, just that the Cats win. Could someone throw a wild -ss pass in a game to control the spread? Yep! Could someone throw a wild -ss pass hot dogging it? LOL review any game this year and see if No. 11 is hot dogging or controlling the spread. We know he’s not worried about the spread. He’s playing street ball and as he well put it, listens to his coach and does what HE wants to. That comment may not be exact but the point was made.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
I understand what you are saying Paris.....and that point can be made to a certain extent
My only motivation in bringing this out was that some of the authors conclusions are eerily “accurate”. Does that mean anything? Probably not, but it does make one wonder. However, referees are supposed to be beyond “hot dogging” it. #11 is a college freshman that may let his youth get the better of him sometimes and that is understandable. Gamblers could much easier get to the refs than to the players these days due to so much less privacy.
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
I did an investigation for the Federal Court in Massachetts about the very matter of gamblers getting to college players. You may remember the situation. The Judge wanted the Top Ten Basketball Programs contacted to see there ideas, policies, preventive controls, etc concerning the problem. Interesting to see how they approached the matter.
At the time Kentucky, before each season, had an FBI agent come in and talk to the players,etc. about the danger of lalking to unknowns, others get too close, gifts, etc.
Sure an offical could be bought off but accusing one of fixing a game is VERY serious and I’m not ready to throw that blanket on anyone.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
I am not completely convinced either. And one has to allow for the fact that this person is a fan above all else.
But the comparisons made go throughout several games , with no sense of a tilting one way or another, so I gave it more credibility than a UK fan with an axe to grind.
I would have loved to see how that investigation turned out, and whether or not it made any inroads as to how things actually are. Would have been good work to hang someone’s hat on. I know we as fans dont see how it all really unfolds, and it would be nice to see it from a person’s point of view if they had no “dog in the hunt”, so to speak.
Was the investigation actually fruitful?? Or were the results not made public?
I AM THE CAT......The Cat In The Hat!!!
The investigation was for the Court. Surprisingly not all court documents are public information. It was part of a presentence investigation. As far as I know the results were never made public.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
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