Patrick Patterson should have his Jersey hang from the rafters at Rupp NOW,starting Senior Day
by ro307805 on Feb 24, 2010 11:04 AM EST
113 comments
I believe everyone here is in agreement that he should be honored in SOME VERY SIGNIFICANT WAY!
To do honor to him properly without stomping on tradition; we should do exactly as UKlvrJm suggests and hoist PPat's Jersey directly to the rafters where it belongs.By the very points that everyone has made that they say makes him a candidate for Senior honors; SHOULD HE NOT BE HONORED IN A WAY THAT IS PROPORTIANATE TO HIS COMMITMENT AND SACRIFICE? That being said; this will eliminate any divisions over whether or not he should honored as a senior, when he really should be honored as THE ALL TIME GREAT UK REPRESENTATIVE that he is. I welcome all opinions here to my assertions either way; but I absolutely stand by my assertion that Patrick Patterson is an ALL TIME GREAT UK PLAYER, and should be honored as such. Since he does not meet the definition of a senior, it would not matter.
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Well,
I’m just going to say one quick thing here, and please don’t hate me for it. : )
First, what are the criteria for having one’s jersey hanging in the rafters? I mean, are there specific achievements that must be met by the jersey wearer?
Second, aren’t most jersey’s retired a significant amount of time after the player (or coach, I guess) has gone on his merry way?
Nothing against Patrick here (I love him) but all this seems a little rushed and I just can’t help but think that sometimes we as fans (me included) get too caught up in the moment and sometimes, (maybe this isn’t one of those times) but just sometimes, a little time is needed to step back and reflect and then deem what should be done to appropriately honor a player.
Again, please don’t hate. Just some thoughts….. : )
Quick replys to your valid points:
1.He is in the same league as the “unforgettables” in regard to his place in UK history, and for nearly the same reasons.2.His sacrifice and contribution came at a huge financial and personal cost.IE by not going to the NBA early he put off getting paid, which could have beneffitted him and his entire family.IMH opinion, that makes him worthy of being discussed(since that is all we can do NOW;If everyone is in agreement;then we could join as one to start a campaign for that, Tru could possibly help?) for this honor.3. He is at the very least, a member of the 1000 point club, and a three year graduate. While no single thing stands out as an obvious reason, the amalgamation of the three does, IMHO.
"all the way"
You would be standing
on your head if it was Cuz!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
That’s quite the assumption there, oldcat. : )
And, I can say that it isn’t necessarily true. Just because I like Cousins doesn’t mean I think he automatically deserves every accolade out there. And besides, that is really irrelevant to this discussion anyway, since we are talking about Patrick here, not DeMarcus.
And ya’ll, for the record, I didn’t say that Patrick didn’t deserve the honor of having his jersey hanging in the rafters, I just had some legitimate questions about jersey-in-the-rafter qualifications and how I thought that today might be a bit premature to make the decision to hoist said jersey.
I think today is a bit premature to make any kind of decision for two reasons: First off, the season is hardly over, and well, to be honest, Patrick may turn is some out-of-this-world performances between now and the end of the season that will make the decision a no-brainer (HANG IT!!), and second of all, like a2d2 pointed out below, no decision has been made as to his student-athlete status for next year and it really would be premature to hang a jersey in the rafters of an active player, now wouldn’t it? : )
In order to make decisions like these, time is needed to reflect on the accomplishments of players who are considered worthy of jersey-hanging. It’s quite an honor to have ones jersey hanging in the rafters and the decision shouldn’t be rushed, IMO.
I'm not hating on your opinions at all.
in fact, I think your points are quite valid . I offered a few points that I hope will sway your opinion :) .
"all the way"
Thanks, and I meant to reply to you, too. : )
I want to specifically comment about your point 2. While it’s true Patrick did indeed pass up the NBA last year to return to school, I don’t think it was necessarily a sacrifice on his part and I don’t really think that should qualify him for jersey hanging, whatsoever. He really liked school, wanted to earn his degree and has a great support system in his parents, it’s not as if we were begging him to return and while it did do the program good for him to return, I don’t think that was his motivation and I don’t think it should have been.
So, sorry to say, ro, but there will be no swaying me today, and frankly, at present, I’m leaning more towards agreeing with WW on this issue. I’ll reserve judgment until after the year is complete, and even then, there may not be enough evidence for me to justify thinking that Patrick Patterson should have his jersey retired. This is not to say that I don’t like or appreciate Patrick the player or Patrick the person, I just think jersey hanging ought to be considered something sort of sacred, you know?
Well BSC, let me take a run at this one for you.
The idea itself of hanging a jersey in the rafters for Patrick was proposed as a substitute to all of those who have this rather bothersome attitude concerning honoring Patrick on Senior Day. Now, everyone’s opinion on that matter aside, because as DeWayne Peevy told me, not even Patrick has decided yet what he is going to do, or at least has not yet made that information public, SOMETHING, and I will give pause here for only one reason, and that is because what has happened to Patrick’s collegiate career has not been of his own doing, Something needs to be done to celebrate this young man’s collegiate activities here at UK besides letting him walk across the stage and get his diploma.
Now I am all for that sheepskin, and what it stands for, so much so that I still believe it should be part of the athletic departments requirements for giving scholarships, but to say that document hanging on the wall is enough of a celebration of this young man’s dedication, not only to this University, but to it’s athletic department as a whole, is in my opinion, wrong. A simple ceremony recognizing him as an outgoing graduate, if he chooses not to remain, would satisfy my sense of right and wrong in this case, but a lot of people are offended that it would ruin “tradition”. In this mixed up world we now find ourselves in, we need to understand that this is an enigma, the situation, the player, the entire three year period he has spent at UK. When most kids and their parents would have left town leaving skidmarks behind, he stayed. When his recruiting coach bailed on him and left town, he stayed. When his new coach, an unproven talent from somewhere he had no idea about put him in a situation that offered him very little help and practically no support, he stayed. When his third coach in three years came in and said , “I am putting in a new system, and a new approach, where do you fit into this?” he stayed, and not only did he stay, he somehow managed to get a bachelor’s degree in three years along the way, while carrying this team on his back for the most part. Not to mention being a role model to every other player on the team.
Now knowing all of that, and knowing that no other player in the history of this program has had to endure what he has, with the exception of the players who’s jerseys already hang in the rafters, what do you think is appropriate that we do for this young man? Because doing nothing is not an option, not Kentucky, we do not treat his kind of dedication and hard work and moral character with a fleeting wave and an “atta boy” as we clean out his locker.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Amen
Best post you even had ABC!!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
This is on the
level of “Thanksgiving Diner”
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
lol....I have to type my speeches now....my kids dont like having to listen to them.....lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Too bad I don't have the power to nominate him for an award the way I have many soldiers
As an Officer, you could take the 1st Sgt’s rec (me) and forward it to the orderly room for a write up; then sign it and send it to the next level for approval.
"all the way"
I got my first Platoon Leader's position for that very reason ro
AIT at Ft. Gordon, Georgia. Had to go haul an idiot out of a hotel room in Augusta who got drunk and decided to not come back for formation. Took two other huys with me, “borrowed” a jeep, knocked down the hotel room door and hauled his half-dressed completely polluted butt back to the barracks. Platoon Sgt. recommended me to the Platoon leader’s slot and got me my PFC stripe…..lol….only thing I was trying to do was to keep us from being put on barracks duty for a month…..lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
hehehe....sad part was it didnt do a thing for the guy....three weeks later
he went AWOL……they hauled him back in cuffs and processed him out…..and this was volunteer Army….lol…he just wanted to be home with his girl….couldnt handle the Military
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
For real though..
You presented a case for senior day honors, as well as several here proposing Jersey retirement(I did not know about John Clay until now, but Whittle and Ohain came up with the Jet Engine independantly at the same time also!), and there seems to be no agreement for either. Do YOU propose a PC honor commensurate with his commitment and performance at and to the University of Kentucky? I have actually challenged everyone and anyone to do the same, but no ideas. After your extensive reply to BSC, I even have warmed up to the idea of a Senior day award, as he IS graduating. Only the fact that there WILL be remaining eligibility makes me balk at that. But, I would rather honor him controversially than not at all. So: To all the detractors of honoring PPat in a traditional way; I propose that we qualify an award as for “for exceptional commitment to UK”; based on that, HOW SHOULD WE HONOR HIM IF NOT IN A “TRADITIONAL WAY?”
"all the way"
But ro, dude !!
What if he isn’t leaving? No decision has been made public, yet. Just askin’
I don’t see how we can be anywhere close to making such a “guess” by Senior Day.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
you are right
if he declares but is not drafted high enough, I would counsel him to stay. With Wall and Cousins leaving, he would get the lions share of attention; and go into next season as the prohibitive no 1 overall.
"all the way"
My honest opinion is to give him the Senior Day honor
and to Hades with the controversy. Short of that, I have no problem with his jersey hanging in the rafters.
My proposal was simple. Make Patrick part of a larger ceremony to honor ALL players who either graduated and didnt see a “Senior Day”, or all players that completed their eligibility and did not get to participate, and I would take it all the way back to the inception of the UK basketball program. I think it is a tragedy that there are players out there who ay have graduated from this University and were not honored as Seniors by this program. Now, I have no idea how many of those people there would be, but I have no trouble with the “either or” guideline. I understand that some cannot get their degree in 4 years. I also understand that getting a degree is not as important to players as it once was. But the minute we take academics out of the picture entirely, the we lose sight of the fact that we are a school. An “institute of higher learning” as it were.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
ABC
Do you think the “naysayers” would object to doing it in Rupp with the National Championship" trophy celebration?
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
if they do, then that's why we call them "naysayers"....they will get over it
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Well I have broke my old record
for time spent on here. If I stepped on an toes It was not on purpose. You know what they say about opinions-being like belly buttons and other and various body parts. Everybody has one!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
all opinions and outcomes should be explored before consensus is built
If an opinion is more astute, or patently valuable, then I welcome it.
"all the way"
Whew.
Well, I knew this morning that when I posted that first post, I would end up looking like the bad girl. : )
All the things you mention in your second paragraph about Patrick staying at UK regardless of coaching issues, about him getting his degree in three years and so on and so on, are indeed all very admirable. I totally agree with all that, and I also think it’s very admirable of you to take up for Patrick’s cause like this, but the original point of this post was whether or not to hang his jersey in the rafters immediately and to that my question is this, are all those off-the-court accomplishments you mentioned enough to hoist someone’s jersey in the rafters in this day and age? At present, I would say no. But, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts there is still plenty of time for Patrick to add to his already glowing career on-the-court numbers and if he does that, well, then to my mind there would be no doubt, he should indeed be considered for jersey hanging, and seriously considered at that. To me the jersey hanging accolade must be a combination of outstanding accomplishments both on and off the court. Not saying that Patrick’s on the court numbers aren’t good, just that I would think that more might be needed.
In response to this:
"Because doing nothing is not an option, not Kentucky, we do not treat his kind of dedication and hard work and moral character with a fleeting wave and an "atta boy" as we clean out his locker."
I never said to do nothing for the young man, and if the above was directed at me, then I don’t really appreciate you putting words into my posts and twisting this around to make it look as though I don’t want him honored at all, as that is totally not the case.
Nowhere did I say that Patrick Patterson doesn’t deserve some form of recognition, but this post was originally about hanging Patrick’s jersey in the rafters, was it not? Well, to that, at present (as I have said ad nauseam) I don’t agree with. That’s all, nothing more, nothing less, and frankly, the burden to come up with another idea as a couple of you have asked me to do, doesn’t lie with me. You want to change my mind? Present away, I’m always open to listen. I disagreed with the jersey notion and if you want to suggest some other form of recognition, you should, but in the meantime I suppose in we will have to agree to disagree on what was the original topic of this post. : )
I did propose another recognition there BSC....see above.....
and dont take it personally, it was simply an attempt to make a case for the idea of recognizing him…..nothing against you I promise
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
also, I was the one to e-mail DeWayne Peevy and get the clarification on what the status is at this time
I know more than anyone that this is still very up in the air, it was simply a suggestion that he has endured through a period unlike any other in UK history
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by the way, my answer to your question you asked above is yes.....it is much more than enough IMNSHO
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
You are proposing to honor him at Senior Day?
Yeah, I didn’t get in on that “Patrick Patterson Senior Day” post the other day, but suffice it to say, that you and I would not have been in agreement on that issue, either. Sorry. : ) Regarding Senior Day recognition, I guess I just think that sometimes you have to play by the rules and can’t really go around making exceptions that by all accounts at present seem to be rooted in emotion. Where does it end?
So yeah, I have shot down the idea of immediately hanging his jersey in the rafters, and I don’t think that Senior Day is all that appropriate a way to honor him, either, but the good news is that I don’t make the final decision on those matters, aren’t you glad? ; )
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, becomes of all of this, and if Patrick will indeed be in the middle of floor with Ramon, Perry and Mark before the Florida game or not, or if his official recognition will come at a much later date, or perhaps never at all.
Oh, and ABC, just one more thing — your plight on Patterson’s behalf is very touching, and even though I don’t agree with you, I totally commend you for it, I really do, but is it possible that all this recognition talk and feeling the need for him to be recognized would mean more to you than it would to him? I mean, is there any reason at all to think that Patterson feels underappreciated? Maybe he’s just right as rain with getting his diploma as recognition and moving on with his life?
Ok, I’m done. I think I have posted quite enough for one day. It was good fun though, wasn’t it? Thanks, all. : )
Thanks for the sentiment BSC, but it is not really a plight in so much
as it is stating facts, and well known facts. There are no written criteria to hang a jersey in the rafters, because no one wants to be pigeon holed into that, they want the freedom to be able to honor the worthy. As far as senior day goes, the e-mail I received from DeWayne Peevey leads me to believe that this is also an honor that is open to interpretation, or at least that is the way I took it, as well as Tru, who said the same thing to me, that it may very well mean that it could still happen. You are 100% right about Patrick, the award may not mean anything to him at present, and he would never ask for it. But in time it may very well come to mean the world to him, as it has to most of the others whose jersey hangs there for all to see. My point about the whole thing is this, those places up high are there as a reminder to all of us who the people were who gave their all to this program while they were here and even beyond. They represent sacrifice, determination, skill, effort, loyalty, and desire. And I have seen no better example of those traits to come through UK in the 40+ years I have been watching this team and it’s players. Some may indeed be equal, although I do not agree with that, but none were better examples, none.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Nice thought....but if people freaked out about honoring him at Senior Day
they will have a field day with this……but I totally agree with you…..something needs to be done and done now…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
;-) Well gotta say...great minds
definitely do think alike!! As I commented on my son’s post….I didn’t get to read all the way down to your initial comment regarding this on tenken’s post but it seems to be a no brainer solution that would solve all angles of this dilemma.
We can still have the traditional Senior day festivities giving proper recognition to those deserving Seniors……kick Flordia’s butt…..and then while 24,000+ are still there….unveil the PP banner that he would DEFINITELY receive anyway.
To answer BigSky….I don’t know that there are any set criteria but is there another kid other than the Unforgettables who’ve earned an immediate banner more?
We all know what this kids been through with the coaching changes…..we all know the money he could have had by leaving…..we all know how important he’s been to this years team….what a great career he’s had….MOST IMPORTANTLY, what a great example he’s been as a player, student and ambassador for UK.
Give him his banner 10-15 years early…..honor him in the present rather than at halftime of some nameless game years from now!!!
You can't fix "stupid"!
The reason I agree with you and hope to sway some people here is:
As you pointed out, he should be honored for the same reasons as the “Unforgettables”, and while this Senior class is important for similar reasons, they did not have the contribution and NBA potential PPat has, hence his sacrifice basically put his life on hold for the good of the program. As far as the other poster asking about criteria; I would venture a guess that all retired Jerseys are for all time significant contributions to the program; I believe PPat fits that bill.
"all the way"
I like your use of the word sacrifice!! As a military man, you know the
true meaning of sacrifice but I agree it’s a word that in this setting that can by applied to PP. The ironic thing is that while many of us look at PP and feel he’s sacrificed….he’s such a great kid that he probably doesn’t view what he’s done as any kind of sacrifice.
Times change…..5+ years ago we wouldn’t have been discussing this because blogs didn’t exist…now it’s common place. Reality is that players of PP ability will not stay for 4 years any longer to be there for Senior day.
I feel and I know you do to, that PP is just as Unforgettable as any of the 4 who’s banners already hang. That’s the bottom line.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Well......a little early....Again !!
A month ago….. there were all kinds of articles saying that he hasn’t decided to leave after this year. I, for one, am waiting until he decides (to further state my opinions, which should not need to be repeated because everyone knows my thoughts on that subject).
;-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
I see you keep making that comment on different posts....
is that wishful thinking?;-) I for one hope you’re right and if so……..in my opinion, that would be a even BIGGER reason to hang his jersey from the rafters immediately!!
You can't fix "stupid"!
LOL
We can call it that. :-)
Truth is, I don’t know what he is thinking. I don’t know what my kids are thinking and they are older than PPat. Just gonna enjoy the ride, as long as I can JM.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
That's the best attitude to have!!! My wife calls me a pessimist but
I tell her that just means I’m never disappointed and sometimes….pleasently surprised!!:-)
You can't fix "stupid"!
Absurd! Asinine! Ludicrous!
The man has not played in a single NCAA tournament game!
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
Well BigSky was asking about criteria
and we now have the answer!!!
Exactly who’s fault is it that PP hasn’t played a tournament game? His because he came to UK after Tubby recruited him and left? His because he stayed through 2 years being coached by an idiot? His because he came back for a third year when we all know he could have made a few $ leaving for the NBA?
I think we all agree he’ll play at least 1 tournament game and he’s been NOTHING but a perfect student athlete…graduating in 3 years. With all due respect…….if he broke his leg tomorrow (GOD FORBID) and NEVER played in a tournament game…..his stats would deserve a banner at some point anyway. That’s the point….if he’s leaving, why not give him his banner now rather than wait 10 years?
You can't fix "stupid"!
WW
That’s probably the first post from you that I completly disagree with:-) Has it been Pat’s fault that his team never played in NCAA game? And what has that got to do with it? NCAA games can’t change Him in our eyes!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
To get jersey retired at UK must
be a member of UK athletics HOF which requires 5 year wait after end of collegiate career.
PPat is a great player, but there is no need to rashly hoist his jersey to the rafters.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions
As usual I have learned something here.
I have never had the actual criteria for a retired Jersey explained to me. Is Bill Keightly a member of the UK athletics HOF? has he been gone 5 years?
"all the way"
New requirements.
HOF opened in 2005. Actual requirements are 5 years after career for HOF, 10 years AND HOF induction for jersey retired.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
They are now
They are now they were in the first class of 88 people (all of which had their Jersey’s retired, and I think all retired Jersey’s were part of that class but I could be wrong)
http://www.ukathletics.com/genrel/042705aaa.html
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Is this wrong?
According to this The Unforgettables jerseys
were retired by UK immediately after the Duke loss; it is very unusual for any team to retire a jersey so quickly after a player’s career is finished.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
If I remember correctly....they had a special presentation at Rupp. Pitino
loved those!!;-)
You can't fix "stupid"!
a2
This throws a monkey wrench in some of our “traditions”
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
LOL oldcat
I guess things can change if they want them too. ; -)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
At The End Of 3 Years
Patrick Patterson will rank in the top 15 UK players in only one category: FG%. He has not made an All-American team previously and it’s possible he won’t this year. That doesn’t appear to me to warrant the retiring of a jersey — perhaps not ever, certainly not, as suggested, immediately.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
As much as I admire and respect PPat
You’re right WW… While making AA is not requirement for a jersey hang, it sure helps! Once you get past the Unforgettable’s, only 6 guys have their jersey hanging without an AA, or multiple years of an AA award. Rouse, Rollins, Barker, Tsioropoulos, Evans and Rose* didn’t make AA, but most of them were All-SEC and All-SEC Tournament types.
*List based on a quick scan of The Kentucky Basketball Statistics Project with the Mark 1 Mod 0 eyeball.
If your wings don't sweep....
WW you know as well as all of us that honoring a player is not 100% about his stats......
THAT would be ludicrous……it is about what they give to the program…….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Setting Aside Stats Then ...
What has Patrick Patterson added to the program that Perry Stevenson hasn’t — remember now: no stats.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
Well, let's see......
Patrick, as a highly recruited Freshman, stayed when Tubby bolted for Minnesota, and kept his committment to UK. That would not be a huge factor except that several big name schools were willing to take Patterson. He played as the only big man we had inside for two years with very little help, and played hurt a large portion of that time. He stayed when his third coach in three years came along, even though he was going to have to learn a new position and a new way to play. So much so in fact that he spent his summer being trained by a guru in California at his own expense, so he could be fatser and better adept at playing this new position. During that time, he earned his degree a full year ahead of schedule. And has remained a centerpiece of the team he is a member of, both in moral leadership AND production (but I will leave his stats alone).
He has served as an ambassador for the program, in spite of a coaching situation which was tenuous at best, and turned down the chance to go to the NBA last year to return and get his degree.
Perry Stevenson, while being a decent player and student ( as far as I know) has put no additional work above and beyond the practice floor, has made no extraordinary effort in academics, and has made no sacrifice on his part ( monetary or otherwise ) to remain at UK. Please do not think I dont appreciate Perry, because I do, but he has not had to “take the extra step” as it were to make something of himself and the program.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
Ok, I can’t leave Weasel all alone here. : )
ABC, I think the thing that you are missing here is that all the items you mention in the first paragraph, all the things you see as sacrifices by Patrick, well, they really aren’t. Sure, they helped the program, but they also helped Patterson the basketball player and the degree portion certainly helped him as a person. I’m inclined to think that he did the above things just as much for himself, if not more so, than for the good of the program.
This example isn’t the greatest, but it’s all I could think of to help illustrate my point about time, and I hope it makes sense — Do you remember the Super Bowl 3 years ago, I believe it was? You know, the one when the Giants won on that remarkable escape by Eli Manning and that even more remarkable catch by David Tyree (sp?) that followed? Well, after that all anyone could talk about was how that was the "Greatest Super Bowl of All Time!". When in actuality, it probably really wasn’t the greatest; it was just recent and so fresh in people’s minds that it made it seem all that much more significant.
You are obviously completely emotionally invested in this, Patrick is clearly one of your favorites, and with good reason, I think he’s the bees knees, as well, but I also try to look at things objectively (and admittedly, in some instances I can, and in some I can’t) and I think if you could just take a step back, and on those few off-the-court things you wrote in that first paragraph that right now seem worthy of something as special as jersey hanging, or additional University accolades, well, if you could look back on them in say, a year or so, well, it’s very possible that they won’t seem all that remarkable anymore. Now, it’s very possible that they still will, of course, and it’s also very possible that Patrick will add extraordinary things to that list in the coming months (both on and off the court), but IMO, things always seem so much more remarkable and perhaps more deserving of recognition when you are living them.
Other than disagreeing about if those things are sacrifices or not,
I would agree about a couple of your points.
The Superbowl analogy is not lost on me, however I hate comparing Professional Sports and Collegiate, I just feel like the two are far far away from each other.
His accomplishments could later seem to be less than remarkable, granted, however that would be a case made against anyone who’s accomplishments were recognized.
My attachment to the Patterson situation is not however an emotional one, it is in fact an attachment to the collegiate athletic system as a whole, and the fact that it is being changed in a way in which was never intended. Academics and athletics were never intended to be seperate issues for college kids. Athletics was an afterthought. Now this afterthought has turned into a mulit-billion dollar industry. And I have no problem with that, as I contribute to it frequently. However, the idea of the “student-athlete” is more and more going by the wayside. Fewer and fewer players graduate, much less stay their 4 years in school that they are allowed. The last stat on this I saw was that only 38% of all collegiate athletes graduate from their school, EVER. And the numbers continue to dwindle in spite of the NCAA’s attempts to reign this trend in. This was never what was intended when the idea of a collegiate scholarship for athletics was developed. And it has allowed the game to become so commercialized that no one seems to care anymore who graduates and who doesnt, who stays and who doesnt, and who is just going through the motions.
And that brings me to my case on Patrick. Everything he has done has flown in the face of conventional wisdom, and this University has been the beneficiary of it. Smart money would have told him to leave when Tubby left, but he stayed. His draft status, while unclear, was held fairly solid last year, but he chose to remain, get his degree and put another year in at UK. This takes dedication to the school, just as much or moreso than it does to ones own desires. I simply believe he should be rewarded for doing everything he could to fulfill his part of the bargain in getting his scholarship, because today, so many do not. No one can question what this young man has brought to Kentucky. Its not an emotional thing with me, it’s not a stats thing with me, it’s a Kentucky thing with me. I remember a time when that word carried a lot of things, both positive AND negative, in connotation with it. Patrick Patterson was nothing but a constant positive.
In a day and age where no one looks out for anyone but themselves in most cases, this young man was different. That’s what being at Kentucky should stand for. Being the best when you dont have to be.
Resistence Is Futile......We Are Blue
Well said!!! It's stunning to me that several of us are being put in
the postion of defending PP deserving more than a wave good-bye on the way to the NBA.
I’ve been a UK fan all my life and I challenge anyone to come up with a player at PP’s level who’s gone through the turmoil that PP has suffered through while having EASY options to leave….let alone never coming here in the first place.
For those who continue NOT TO GET THIS….please scroll down to the bottom of this and read my last post. If you actually study the list of players and other’s who’s names or jerseys hang from the rafters….many are people who weren’t All Americans but who stuck with UK during tough times.
I can honestly say on my part that emotional attachment to PP has nothing to do with this…..just doing what’s right.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Remember this WW, from October 2009?
No stats.
True blue Patterson. If anyone missed it, definitely worth a read. I think, it is worth reading again.
It will make you smile. :-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
It looks bad that some people
screwed up so bad on “The Unforgettables”
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Also
“Mr. Wildcat”
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
I agree to accede to what you think here, Oldcat
My opinion on this is well documented. I’m very keen to know what kind of honor would be appropriate in lieu of Jersey Retirement, and/or senior day honors? I’m not being sarcastic at all BTW, I have just read many of your posts here before, and found you to be very even handed. I am also interested in what THM would propose, as he seems to have a dissenting opinion. So I pose this to everyone: What is an honor that would be appropriate for PPat, and would be PC also? I stand by my proposal, but now I challenge every one else to come up with an alternate proposal.
"all the way"
According to
a couple of posts, He doesn’t deserve any recognition. I hope they don’t mind him keeping his diploma!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
by oldcat70 on Feb 24, 2010 3:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
ro
Thanks but I would be the last to ask. I’ve followed my cats for over 60 years. This doesn’t mean a thing to the world or should it. All it means is that we honored Cawood,Mr. Willcat,unforgettables and Pitino. Out of love and appreciation. Now you have to be “All American”, lead the world in some catagory,be dead or at least gone 5 to 10 years. What has my university come too?
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
If we retired jerseys for all players we loved,
we’d have no available numbers. UK has arguably the greatest basketball tradition in college. While we can revere and honor all we want, we should reserve retiring jerseys for only the most beloved of the beloved.
In my opinion, the MLB has the greatest hall of fame in all of sports. 203 former MLBers are in the hall of fame out of the 16,000+ that have ever played the game. That’s about 1 out of 80. If we assume we that UK graduates 4 players a year, to keep the same ratio, only once every twenty years should UK retire a number. Now that might be a little too restrictive but one player every decade, one every five years would be a good average to still maintain the honor. So to focus this to our current discussion: is Patterson one of the best players of the decade?
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think any numbers have been retired, just jerseys
according to what Kyle Macy said early this season during a game.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Well again....PP will be there on just stats before the season is fully over
but as you point out….love & appreciation apparently means nothing.
You can't fix "stupid"!
THM
You don’t have to retire the number. You just hang a jersey> Yes he is!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Pitino,Cawood nor Mr. Willcat have a number!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
In my opinion, none of them should be in the rafters.
They were doing their jobs.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
And while we're on it,
CM Newton shouldn’t have the football field named after him!
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Should our Arena be named Rupp then?
Am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
It seems you
are at odds with a lot of what has been done around here!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
I'm just being difficult.
Truly I can see honoring a coach, but not so much an athletic director (especially naming the field after a relatively short tenured one who made terrible football decisions), broadcaster and equipment manager.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
CM Newton
Had a long and worthy career both as a player,and athletic director. He was the man we needed when He was brought back. Hw was and still is highly respected here and national in the sports community. Not meaning to be difficult.
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Nope.
He didn’t have a good career as a player (27 career points). That said, he did do a good job with men’s basketball (Pitino, Smith) but has little else to write home about. Football was an SEC doormat with Curry and all Hal Mumme did for UK was land us on probation. Newton’s record is mixed (at best). If you wanted to bestow an honor on him, name the basketball court for him or the administration building, not the field.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 24, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
What about Rupp and Cliff Hagen?
I left out the Coal dorm for the players
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Well if nothing else......we've had a nice argument today!! Seriously folks....
there have been good points made on both sides of this and I guess since I helped start this….I should make at least one more point.
In the last few years we’ve had several players who had great stats but who seemed to be looking to leave UK at the earliest opportunity. The possiblity of earning BIG $ in the NBA is obviously something that can’t be ignored and the better the player….the bigger the $.
In my opinion, Tayshaun Prince is the only modern player at PP’s level who’s showed the same loyality to the University that PP has. In other words……not looking to leave ASAP. At the same time, Tayshaun didn’t go through anything like the tribulations that PP has endured and still stayed.
I think Tayshaun will have a banner in the rafters as well he should. I just think PP deserves one RIGHT NOW for the loyality he’s shown as well as the player and student he’s been. As a2 points out…..it’s not even definite that he won’t be back next year….that’s what kind of wonderful kid he is.
As oldcat pointed out…..there’s a banner up there for Mr. Wildcat…..not because he folded jerseys so well but because he loved UK and every b-ball fan knew it. We have a broadcaster up there that we all LOVE because we knew he loved UK and we could hear it in his voice. We have 4 guys up there MAINLY because they showed loyality and love for UK……….how is PP any different?
I would argue that he’s showed more loyality than the Unforgettables because it wasn’t like those 4 had other school’s or the NBA beating down the door to get them. Bottom line……and I REALLY mean no disrespect to anyone who disagrees with this but……..if you don’t think PP deserves special recognition for who he is and what he’s done…..you really don’t bleed blue.
You can't fix "stupid"!
by UKlvrJM on Feb 24, 2010 6:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
well I think you're making my point....I think he had a few better options don't you?
You can't fix "stupid"!
This
is Kentucky. We are going to have special players all the time. I don’t want to dimish those hanging from the rafters by just handing out to everyone that is “special” to us fans. What about Jodie? Yes he left but others have left and they are hanging up there too. What about Chuck Hayes……one of the most beloved UK players in my years of watching the game….Tayshun Prince? Lets see what this team accomplishes post season before we hang any banners. The Unforgettables brought us from the brink of death of the program in a short amount of time. That is why we love them and they deserve to be up there but besides them, I believe that an athlete needs to accomplish a little more then what PPat has done to get his name on the rafters.
LOVED Chuck Hayes and while he went through some personal
tribulations……he didn’t endure two years of BG. Jodie….also beloved but again….one of those guys looking to leave.
I agree…..we all have favorites. I guess PP’s loyality in the face of what he’d delt with is what in my mind qualifies him as another Unforgettable if you will.
You can't fix "stupid"!
after
what Jodie went through with BG, I would say he went through tough times and had every reason to get out. PP was the favorite son of BG and he didn’t get the same treatment. The rafters need to reflect great accomplishment though not sentimental value.
Jodie did go through a lot but not sure I'd agree
PP was his favorite…..PP was just the one player who he couldn’t afford to piss off.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Someone Show Me Just One Time
That Patrick Patterson stated that he was relinquishing a questionable spot in the NBA draft for the good and glory of old State U, the Big Blue Nation or any other facet of our beloved program. If there was such a motive my perception is that it was considerably down the list of priorities. As I understand it his prime antecedent was the desire of his parents that he earn a degree and his predilection to please them. Second, he is one of those young persons who truly rejoices in the college atmosphere. Perhaps third would be his affirmation of the desire to participate in the NCAA tournament and the parallel quest for a championship. Do not misunderstand my feelings on the matter: Patterson has been an exemplary student and representative of UK; while his talents may not have been utilized to their potential he certainly hasn’t been abused or neglected, nor has he been without praise and recognition. Most likely there will come a time when his contributions are due formal acknowledgment but IMO he should wait for that time as have numerous others, some with greater contributions.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
by Wild Weasel on Feb 24, 2010 7:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
WW
your reasons are completely right. I mean I don’t know how he could hold alot of love for UK after what he went through for two years. I think the reason you stated are correct. To me that is why its important for him to senior night…….that is more of a academic accomplishment recognition to me then anything.
C'mon WW you know that PPat is not the type of person to complain, suggest, or even hint about awards
that is another part of what makes the kid special….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Did Michael Porter, Perry Stevenson ...
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
I respect both your opinions and frankly don't disagree with many
points you’ve made but……..ignoring sentiment in this issue is silly.
Look at a list of who’s jerseys have been retired or hung from the rafters. No disrepect for any of these that I mention from the mid 1950’s…..Jerry Bird-713 career points, Billy Evans-716 career points, Gayle Rose-443 career points. None was an All American but at the time, they were deemed to be rafter worthy.
oldcat would be the expert on these gentlemen but I know this was a tough period for UK coming off the one year death penality. I’m going to assume that this is a factor in why their jerseys were retired.
Of course the Unforgettables are up there representing another rough time in UK b-ball history. The point of course is that sentiment has played a large part in who’s jerseys are up there…..that’s just a fact.
You can't fix "stupid"!
JM
If for no other reason than being old enough to live through most of these awards. You are right. Most of these men were honored by the university because the people, not some committe, but real people demanded it. There was NO discussion about Cawood,Mr. Willcat and many others. It was done because it was the right thing to do! Now we have a HOF, they give us rules about who,what and when. We have made it for over 100 years without their rules.
At the very least PPat needs to be honored on senior night. After all he is going to graduate,which is what most seniors do! We are the ones that have been honored by him staying and showing the world what a real “student athlet” can do in 3 years. IMHO we would not be where we are, starting 3 freshmen, without his “senior” leadership. Having said as much, I am only a small voice coming through your computer. He will be honored in my place. I have pictures of all the players on a wall, many walls. Good Morning
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
by oldcat70 on Feb 25, 2010 4:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Interesting reading
Getting caught up at ASob after several 12 hour work shifts. This topic has generated many interesting points. My two cents is that Patrick is one of best kids to come UK’s way in a long time. He doesn’t demand the spotlight, cause any turmoil, or do anything negative at all. He has been a great student, a great player, and a great example of what a student athlete should look like. I have watched UK basketball since 1975, and have seen a lot of great players come our way. P.Pat definitely is one of my all-time favorites. But, my opinion is, we should give this some time. It will work out…
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
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