SEC Basketball Power Poll Round Table

I have been extremely negligent in keeping up with my SEC Power Poll duties this year. I blame John Calipari for winning so many games, that's all I want to talk about.
But in an attempt to right a badly listing ship, you will find below the response to the SEC Power Poll Round Table, which is hosted at Garnet and Black Attack. There, you will find links to the other round table responses for other participating blogs.
Away we go:
1. The SEC was very weak last year. Most predicted that it would rebound this year. Has that happened? Why or why not?
It has happened, but perhaps not to the extent man SEC fans, and even neutral college basketball observers, expected. Kentucky, of course, has returned to its more or less traditional spot at the top of the conference after a five year hiatus. Tennessee is still competitive, Vanderbilt continues to be strong and Florida is beginning to improve in the East. The West is far more unsettled, with Mississippi St. and Ole Miss the only real threats to make the tournament. LSU was expected to be down a bit this year, but nobody expected them to be without a conference win at this point in the season.
The SEC ranked dead last of the big six conferences last year on Kenpom.com, and is fifth this year. So is the SEC better? Yeah, a little.
2. The national buzz on the conference is definitely focused on Kentucky, who have lived up to their preseason billing as the conference's best team and a national contender. Do the 'Cats have what it takes to win a national title? Why or why not?
Let's look at what Kentucky does have:
- They are
theone of the tallest team in the NCAA; - They have great guard play, always a big plus in the NCAA tournament;
- They are the best offensive rebounding team in Division I;
- They have outstanding depth;
- They have at least three and maybe four first-round draft picks in the lineup;
What Kentucky does not have:
- Experience -- They are the youngest team in the top 25.
Is Kentucky's lack of experience enough to wipe out all the things they do have? I don't think so, but it is a significant concern.
3. In addition to Kentucky, which other teams will make the NCAAs? Will we see any surprises here, i. e., will anyone--barring an SECT surprise--other than Kentucky, the Tennessee Volunteers, the Vanderbilt Commodores, the Florida Gators, the Mississippi Rebels, and the Mississippi St. Bulldogs make it?
Of all the ones mentioned, Florida seems the most likely to not make the tournament. I'll take them first, and then look at the rest of the teams not mentioned:
- Florida has to get to at least nine wins and beat either Tennessee, Vanderbilt or Kentucky in their last six games. If they fail to defeat one of the aforementioned, they will need a win or two in the SECT to get in in addition to nine SEC regular-season wins.
- If South Carolina wins out in the regular season, they will get in without doubt. If they get to nine wins pre-tournament, they will likely get in if they win their first game. Otherwise, they would need eight wins and get to the finals of the SECT.
- If Arkansas gets to eleven conference wins, and wins a game in the SECT, or wins ten and gets to the finals in the SECT, I think they'll squeak in. That seems hard to imagine, but the the Committee will take into account the difference in Arkansas since Courtney Fortson has returned. They have a very real chance to pull that off, too, because the only really unlikely game they have left is Tennessee on the road. The rest of the tough teams they get at home. Unlikely, but doable.
- The least likely of all, but still possible, is Alabama. It would take a seven game winning streak to do it, and that could start now or later, but they need seven in a row somewhere in their next five conference and the up to four games in the SEC tournament. I don't think breaking it up will be good enough, they need seven in a row.
- None of the other teams really have a path to the NCAA tournament other than an SECT victory.
- Ole Miss is one bad loss away from the bubble, but they have a very favorable schedule from here on out with 4/6 at home.
4. What is the biggest surprise so far this season? Why?
The biggest surprise to me is LSU being so bad. I knew they would be down, but I never would have imagined them winless in the SEC halfway through the season.
5. Who is the player of the year so far? Why?
DeMarcus Cousins. His statistics per forty minutes are simply outrageous, and he is the cornerstone of Kentucky's success. Cousins is #1 in the nation in OR, #12 in DR, #2 in fouls drawn/40 minutes, and #2 in the nation in points/40 minutes.
But Cousins will not win the SEC POY. Devan Downey will. Book it. Downey doesn't have nearly the kind of overall production that Cousins does, but he will be player of the year in the SEC.
68 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Uconn up 9 on nova with under 4 to play
Could be that two of our wins get big road wins in as many days.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Feb 15, 2010 8:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Come on, Tru...
You don’t think Downey deserves some credit for having to manage to get it done while being the focal point of opponent’s defensive game plans?
I’ll have to admit, though, that I like Cousins a lot. I think he’s more important to your team than Wall.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
The problem I have
with giving players like Downey and Evan Turner from OH State too many accolades is that they HAVE to do what they do or no one else will.
For Downey, take the UK game for example, yes he scored in the 30s, but he did so on 30% shooting and a bunch of free throws. There is a 35 second shot clock so someone has to take shots, it just so happens Downey is designated as that player for SCAR. Volume doesn’t equal greatness.
For a player like Cousins to have the numbers he does on a team like UK is amazing. Without Cousins UK is still an Elite 8 quality team, we have that much talent. He also puts up numbers in a short amount of time.
Even with a player like Downey, SCAR is 14-10 with no real shot of making the NCAA. Sorry, but losers don’t deserve to get POY honors.
by aidanpryde18 on Feb 16, 2010 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yet, if Downey wasn't that player--if he played for UK, for instance--he'd have a much fuller stat line.
He might score less points, but he’d have many more assists (yes, he’s capable of being a more traditional PG when asked to be) and a higher FG%. It works both ways.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
a la Allen Iverson?
Iverson one of the biggest ball-hogs who ever lived, horrible shooting PCT. etc; yet still a first round NBA player(as well as an undeserving all-star slot). Maybe Downey needs to hire HIS publicist.
"all the way"
Heh...
In all seriousness, I don’t think Downey wants to be that kind of player. He was just forced into having to be this year because of all the injuries we suffered to key pieces of our team. Ironically, I’m not sure that the injuries and Downey’s place in our offense hasn’t hurt his draft chances, as what he probably really needed was to improve his stock was to improve the perception of him as a playmaker. NBA teams will always doubt his ability to be a top-shelf scorer in the league, but he could find a place as more of a traditional PG.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Downey = 1st Team All-SEC
But not POY. That should be John Wall or Mr. Cousins.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
I really don't think there's a good argument for Wall.
I can see the argument for Cousins. He’s averaging a double-double, after all, which is pretty incredible. Wall’s numbers basically look like what Downey’s would be if Downey wasn’t asked to score so many points. He’s putting up a couple more assists per game but almost seven less points.
Anyways, you said it yourself. If Downey got 1st Team All-SEC, that would put Wall on the second team.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
No Way
Both Wall and Downey will be 1st team All-SEC.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
You're right.
I always forget that they don’t exactly select it by position.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say that Downey did not deserve credit.
In fact, I won’t be the least bit unhappy if he is chosen over Cousins. I just wanted to make it clear that I believe that from a purely objective standpoint, Cousins is the more convincing choice.
But Downey is full of intangibles, and subjectively, he does more for his team than Cousins does for UK. So his choice makes sense in that way.
I wasn’t trying to dis Downey, just point out that objectively, Cousins has the more impressive numbers.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I'm not sure I know what you mean with the objective / subjective distinction...
But I can see your point. At any rate, they’re both great players. And I’m not so sure that Downey will actually get the award in the end. I think he will if we make the tourney, but that’s looking more and more unlikely.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
SEC Will Not Be A Good BB League ...
For the simple reason they are the best FB league. The same logic applies to why UK will not be a FB power. Demographics and finite resources are limiting factors.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
Huskies 84-Wildcats 75
Quite a tribute to Jim Calhoun and the response of his team on the road.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
I know.
Now if those pesky JayHawks would just choke on the road in College Station, well, all would be right with the world on a random Monday night in February, would it not? : )
Downey does deserve credit but not as much as cousins or wall, it’s all about leading your team to victory, and those two are the best at that in this league period….
by condoUKfan1122 on Feb 15, 2010 11:36 PM EST reply actions
Height?!
Tru—it boggles my mind that you would reference kenpom.com then turn around and say…
They are the tallest team in the NCAA;
Straight-up untrue! In fact, one of our most hated rivals is taller:
2010 NCAA Div-I Teams by Height
They may be one of the toughest teams in Div I, but they aren’t the tallest. And I give them all the more credit for that.
An Illini riding on a wildcat...how flippin' sweet is that?!
Great point.
I didn’t notice height was clickable. Thanks for the correction.
I don’t know why that would “boggle your mind” though. Your mind must be easy to boggle. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
you know
what is funny about that, though? I could swear that during the game against UT (among a few other games, also) the announcers (in this case it would have been Vitale/Shulman) did say that we had the tallest team. I’m almost sure of it.
Oh well, I guess it doesn’t really matter in the end, as we might not be the tallest team in Div I, but we are the sure as hell the best looking and one of the most talented and those two trump height any day of the week, I would say.
Oh, and just so ya’ll know, if I got a vote for SEC POY (or National POY, for that matter) well, I too, would vote for DeMarcus Cousins. (shocking, I know) ; )
not your imagination
I know I have heard commentators say it too.
by StillCatwoman on Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
deja vu
Yeah, I think that’s actually what boggled my mind…that I heard it from two completely separate sources, each with their separate (and most likely opposite) biases.
Also yes Tru, it is very easy to rile me up :-D
An Illini riding on a wildcat...how flippin' sweet is that?!
I heard that said by Verne Lundquist lately also
Amazing, no 7 footers, yet still one of the tallest? That says volumes about big men going early to the NBA.,
"all the way"
You are all correct
The announcers have said during several UK games that we were the tallest team in the NCAA. It must be in the talking points for UK, but based on that web link, it is not true.
Yeah.
They have over and over. Just goes to show you you shouldn’t believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Feb 16, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
You're both right, I think.
You have to look at the fine print of the kenpom.com average height. If you look closely you’ll see that he is calculating the average height per minute played. So in games that John Wall and Eric Bledsoe play lots of minutes it will bring down our average in the kenpom calc. Let’s say Orton and Stevenson play a lot in a game, then our average will go up in the kenpom score.
It’s been said a number of times that our average player is 6’ 7" and that is the tallest average height in D1, and I have no doubt that this is correct. The kenpom calc is an interesting way of looking at it but doesn’t tell the whole story.
So there, you should both feel better now. I do.
If we had defended Downey any better on our game against them, he never enters the discussion for POY.
While a good player, Downey would only be a part of the machine at Kentucky. His standing out at SC is while statistically an excellent year, not going to get his team to the NCAA tournament, and probably wont get them into the 2-3rd round of the SEC tournament. I can appreciate the sentiment, but both Cousins and Wall have been much bigger impact players this year.
Giving the POY to Downey simply for political reasons, and yes I know that wasnt mentioned, but it will be why it happens if it does, is a mistake. Anyone that can’t see the better player in Cousins is blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
What exactly do you mean by "political reasons?"
In my view, if Downey gets it, it will be because of the role he plays and the fact that USC couldn’t win without him. In other words, b/c he’s an MVP. If Cousins gets it, it will be because he’s more dominant statistically. And yeah, because he’s a better overall player.
And by the way, you defended Downey fine. He had guys in his face all night and half the shots he made were circus shots. Give the guy a little credit.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that's not exactly right.
There have been several cases I remember when the most statistically worthy player did not win. Chris Lofton did not win in ‘06-’07 even though he dominated Derrick Byars statistically (we are talking about the coach’s choice, not the AP — they don’t count in my book). That’s just one recent example. Forty could probably cite dozens, for all I know.
I don’t like to call it politics, but I think there is a bias toward seniors, and I don’t disagree with that. I also think that there is a bias against freshmen — Chris Jackson (Mohammed Abdul-Rauf) was the last (and I think, only) freshman to win back in 1988-89, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that.
Given the history of the SEC, Cousins would have to dominate the stats utterly in order to have a chance to win, and he won’t do that. He will be impressive, but others will have more raw numbers for dozens of good reasons, but most importantly due to minutes played. None of them will match him in per-minute production over such a broad range of statistics, it seems.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I guess political was a bad choice of words
my point being that anything that the league can do to promote Downey over Cousins they will do…..Cousins has gotten the short end of the stick because of his “rep” and that’s fine if that’s the way they want to play it……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
and "defending" him in my definition is stopping him......waving at him as he drives by
is not defending him……lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
If Downy is the
SEC POY this year, then Meeks should have won by leaps and bounds last year. Considering my personal criteria (importance to team, SEC Performance, Big game performance, game winners, overall stats, etc.) then Meeks blows his doors off in most categories IMO.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 10:34 AM EST reply actions
Does POY=MVP?
If so then Downey is POY.
"Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom" - Hayek
I agree that Downy is the MVP
for South Carolina, but not the conference.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think he is the most valuable player ...
… on any team. So that would make him conference MVP, wouldn’t it?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Right...
If the ultimate MVP is the guy that your team can’t win without, then Downey is a perfect example of an MVP. But I agree, he’s not as statistically dominant or talented as some other players.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Just
to add another name to the list that fits your definition…Varnado. Also not as statistically dominant (with one exemption) but is as equally as important to Miss. State.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Good point,
But MSU doesn’t depend on Varnado quite as much as USC depends on Downey.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I disagree
that he would be MVP for any other team.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Let me correct myself by emphasising
“any” with quotations.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
How about ...
… LSU? Arkansas sans Fortson? Maybe even Florida?
You could be right of course, but just my opinion, he could be MVP for any of those teams, and maybe more.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
You're exactly right,
hence my disagreement with your original use of “any”. Yes, some teams, but not “all”.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Okay ...
… then I think we are on the same page. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Who do you think rivals him in that regard in the SEC?
I mean, I don’t think you can make this argument for Cousins. UK wouldn’t be as good without Cousins, but they’d still be a very good team, only with Patterson and Orton getting more touches.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but ...
… the question sort of goes to, “how important would he be on other teams,” not how much it would affect UK to lose him.
I think Cousins would be MVP of any team in the league right now if he played for them, even some of the better ones like Tennessee and Ole Miss.
In fact, I think he would be even more valuable to them than UK. Cousins would allow Ole Miss to get better looks from three, same with UT and Florida. Having a guy that strong in the post makes playing basketball a lot easier, because he is almost unguardable without a double-team. With his offensive rebounding, he could turn any team except perhaps LSU into an instant SEC contender, and if SEC had slightly better outside shooting, he could do the same for them.
He has hindered Wall, because it is so much harder for Wall’s athleticism to shine with DeMarcus clogging the lane like he does. But Cousins has really made Eric Bledsoe look a lot better, even as his presence has made it harder for Wall and Patterson to shine.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Exactly!
Don’t let the fact that he plays on a more talented team contending for a NC let him not be considered. He would absolutely be regarded as MVP on the majority of teams in the country.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
You have a solid argument
depending on how one rates the quality of candidates. I, for one, believe that much more than simply importance to their team should be considered. I think that overall SEC performance, all stats included should be rated to decide SEC POY. Please don’t take offense to the following, however 30% FG shooting the last few games just doesn’t impress me much no matter how many points he racks up.
But beginning with SEC play, I think Cousins has been the most dominate player in the SEC, if not the country.
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's fair. There are definitely multiple sides to this argument.
And it’s all probably a moot point anyway. As much as a I hate to say it, the season looks to be taking its toll on Downey over the past few games. Cousins or Wall will probably have bigger stretch runs, prompting one of them to the award. I of course may be wrong, but I think need to make the NCAA tournament for Downey to get the right level of support, and I think that’s looking more and more unlikely at this point.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Should'nt league MVP be the player that contributed the most to winning the conference championship?
And that, my friends, remains to be seen!
"all the way"
MVP Doesn't Equal Best Player
Most VALUABLE Player (MVP) is sometimes different than Best Player in the Conference.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Let me put this Devan Downey situation in another light.
You put Devan Downey in the UK lineup and he is simply another guy you have to defend along with the other 9 that UK can run at you at any given point. You put any of UK’s starting 5 on the SC team and you get a 18-20 pt per night scorer that is giving Downey a run for his money on being the MVP at SC, much less the SEC.
This is in no way a disrespect to Downey, he is the best that SC has. But he is not the best the SEC has.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
But He MAY BE Most VALUABLE
Best and Most Valuable are different awards.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Just out of curiosity
what criteria do you believe decides the SEC POY?
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Majority Of Votes
I’m sure voters use different criteria.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I meant you personally
Do you think the best player, or the most valuable player (if different) deserves the award?
by The Fake Calipari on Feb 16, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Most VALUABLE Not Best
Most Outstanding Player = Best.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Just for kicks....
When looking for an exact description of what defines the SEC Player of the year, this is what wiki has to say (I know, I know, wiki is not the beginning and end all of knowledge, but it was quick : )):
“The Southeastern Conference (SEC) Men’s Basketball Player of the Year is an award given to the player who has proven himself, throughout the season, to be the most exceptional talent in the Southeastern Conference.”
Yeah, not a real definitive explanation there, is it?
It’s also interesting to note, not surprisingly, of course, and probably common knowledge among UK fans, is that Kentucky players have won the most SEC POY awards (12), but maybe more interestingly, and something I didn’t know, is that SC has never had a player win. Interesting, indeed.
USC Only Member Of SEC Since Early 1990's
SC players have won ACC POY in years past (1970’s).
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I see the point you are making Forty.....but do you REALLY think that
Downey’s the MVP of the SEC? Which player is the one guy you think this conference needs the most?
By any and all definitions I believe Cousins fits the bill, and possibly Wall…..but Downey is not it….IMHO…..for what it’s worth
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
I'd Vote For Wall
But Downey is probably more indispensable to USC than Wall is to UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 16, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. A John Roche mention here on ASOB.
If only Carolina could get back to the McGuire / Roche days. We were actually a national powerhouse back then.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
by Gamecock Man on Feb 16, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Cuz is POY
Wall and Downey close 2nd and 3rd.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
I'm talking SEC
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
Well ...
If he is, he will be the first freshman since Chris Jackson.
Not gonna say impossible, but I think it is really unlikely.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by 












