even being PROVEN guilty???

Good God what passes for a reporter these days.

from a link in the news wire section. I wanted to say bad things then and I still want to say them now. I don’t think it has anything to do with my blue shades, either.

I love it—may I have some more, please? Haters to the left! Getting routinely trashed by publicity-seeking asshats…we’re back, baby!

Sorry y’all…I’ve quoted both Oliver Twist and Beyonce, I think the Gameday spirit has gone to my head a bit; )

Here’s a link to the original article so you can read the whole thing in context.

And for those of you who, from your posts so far in this thread, clearly do not know your school’s history (e.g., recipient of the first NCAA “death penalty” for the 1954 season for the point shaving scandal in the 1949 championship year, and the subsequent infractions under Hall and Sutton), learn from this link…

No hate, no exaggeration, just facts from the records and opinion based on those facts.

As to KU fan jealousy — nah, don’t kid yourselves. Rupp was a KU alum, as were Dean Smith and John McClelland and Ralph Miller and Art Lonborg and many more, and all of those mentioned here are in the Basketball Hall of Fame (look them up and learn, pups). We’re proud of what they accomplished in their careers, although when it comes to the Baron, not proud of everything about him. UK has a few more titles and a lot more disciplinary actions, but when it comes to all-time greatest programs, KU, UK and UNC are in the same ball park of top 4 programs (UCLA must be included solely because of the 10 NCs won during the Wooden years), and KU anticipates more national championships to come in the near future.

While UK still has the lead in wins in head-to-head meetings (a lead for the most part built during KU’s low points in the early 1960s and late 1970s and early 1980s), UK discontinued the recurring regular season non-conference games between the two programs back in the Pitino era. Wonder if the stoppage had anything to do with KU smoking Pitino’s team 150-95 in 1989, the single worst loss in modern UK history? The only recent meetings have been in tournaments, but I understand KU is trying to get the regular season series started up again. Hope it can be worked out.

In closing, please learn whereof you write before you post and display your shortcomings in college hoops history knowledge. But if ignorance of or deluding yourself about UK’s history helps you to sleep at night, then by all means, do indulge yourselves. It matters not, for while you may fool yourselves, the rest of the educated college hoops world knows the truth.

Before I address your attempts to belittle my valid and accurate points, let me point out that if any of you had any knowledge of your program’s history, you would have caught my date typo and castigated me for it. Specifically, to correct my typo, because of the 1949 point shaving scandal, UK got the death penalty for the 1953 (1952-3) season, not 1954 as written in my original post.

To your attempted “critiques” —

jeffy:
First, just because something is on Wikipedia doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate. I always double check my sources whenever I have doubts, but UK’s history of scandal and being the first basketball program to suffer the “death penalty” is well known to all who have studied college basketball history, so I did not bother to in this case. But just for you, here is the info for the 1952-3 UK “season that never was”, on bigbluehistory.net
<http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/1952-53.html>
Here’s an excerpt in case you don’t want to check out the link yourself:

BEGIN EXCERPT
Kentucky Schedule
(1952-53)
Final Record: Won: 0; Lost: 0
Head Coach: Adolph Rupp
Assistant Coaches: Harry Lancaster
Team Captain(s): Cliff Hagan and Frank Ramsey
Final Ranking: None
Notes: Played no schedule

Overview
Kentucky played no schedule for the 1952-53 season as part of the fall-out from a scandal which rocked the nation in 1951. Revelations of point shaving and dumping games came to light when Junius Kellogg, a star of the Manhattan Jaspers basketball squad, was approached by a former player and offered $1000 to dump an upcoming game. Kellogg reported the incident to authorities and the New York District Attorney’s office was called in to investigate and make the arrest. The investigation that followed, under the direction of Manhattan District Attorney Frank Hogan, led to the unearthing of such widespread gambling and corruption within college basketball that it implicated thirty-three players in eighty-six games, with the knowledge that many more got away.
END EXCERPT

Also, jeffy, I must apologize to you. Only an excerpt of the Mayer article was included in the post that started this thread, and I assumed a UK fan would understand what “Here’s a link to the original article so you can read the whole thing in context” means. Clearly I was wrong. Replying in kind (do you understand what that means?), I suggest you follow your own advice. As well as the Idiot’s Guide to the Internet, be sure to include the Idiot’s Guide to Understanding American English and the Idiot’s Guide to UK Basketball history to boost your comprehension. Very weak game you got there. Learn.

a2d2:
I never wrote that KU has never had problems. It has, and I am well aware of them. Knowing what I am writing about enables me to post and not look ill-informed, as the UK fans who originally posted here clearly are.
  
To address your specific examples — sure, the fights you mentioned occurred, and the DUI Morningstar got happened. You can find similar problems in any college program, they just get more air time at places like KU and UK. But none of those things affected the KU program’s eligibility status, and that’s not what we talking about anyway.

To address your second example, which is germane to the discussion, despite protests from UK and Memphis fans that felt something had to be rotten in Denmark/Lawrence, to the best of my knowledge no recruiting violations occurred with the recruitment of X and CJ Henry. If you or anyone else has info on some, please provide them to the NCAA for further action so they can open a case. The NCAA is currently not working on any leads on this, and I think we can all agree that the NCAA needs all the help it can get.

Oh, and note that so far the UK fan replies to my posts reinforce the validity of my comment “please learn whereof you write before you post and display your shortcomings in college hoops history knowledge”. Documentation for everything I have written can be found by anyone that is willing to open their minds and do the work needed to learn about their program’s history. The posters I have replied to cannot say the same.

As for glass houses and stones, I’m far from omniscient in my college hoops knowledge, but I know and accept the problems KU has had in the past. I’m happy to have an informed, enlightening discussion about them at any time, and have no problems in comparing violation histories with others. What is, is, and no amount of denial, blustering or insults change what is.

ro307805:
Nothing “quasi” about the facts, they are a matter of record.
And what speculation? That Pitino took his ball and went home, and no one since at UK has been willing to schedule KU during the season? Those are historical facts as well. KU has approached UK in the past to renew the series, UK has said no.

As to being #3 in all time wins, KU should pass the tarred heels before the postseason is over, and then the Jayhawks will be right on the heels of UK for all-time wins. It’s a great marathon, isn’t it? :-) But more important today for fans of #1 ranked KU is the chance to win a 4th NCAA title this year. Hopefully KU will get to the Final Four and get to play your guys for all the marbles, keeping them from getting their 8th NCAA title. I look forward to it. You already know who I think will win. :-) And if you want to throw in comparisons in other categories, when will #2 UK pass #1 KU in conference titles won (52, soon to be 53)? They are two of the best programs ever, but both have a long way to go to catch UCLA’s 11 NCAA titles. That is the ultimate long range goal.

hywineman:
To your last point first — up to this point I have been the only poster making intelligent, informed comments in this thread. The replies so far have been fairly emotional, knee-jerk ones with little substance, first to Mayer’s article, then to my post.

Hypocrisy? Really? How so, pray tell? I know my alma mater’s flaws, and they are far less egregious than UK’s. I have nothing I need to hide behind, as the facts and history are what they are — and thank you for conceding they are facts.

As to the games played when KU was down — you misunderstood me, of course they count! I’m not being hypocritical at all, you totally missed my point. My point was and is that UK happily played KU when KU was down, but since that 150-95 drubbing UK dropped the series, taking its ball and going home, refusing to come out to play KU except for tournament time. Come and play KU! Two of the top programs today and in the history of the game, with already acknowledged shared and deep roots (all the shared roots I know of buried firmly in Lawrence, Kansas) , and yet UK won’t schedule KU? Hopefully Calipari (a former KU assistant coach back in the 1980s, another KU to UK tie for those of you who don’t know) has more guts, or pull with the AD and alum base, and can help get a new series started. We want a chance for KU to even up the very lopsided W-L ledger to date.

As to the first black question — Basketball Hall of Famer John B. McLendon, Jr. was a pioneering American basketball coach credited with not only popularizing (some say inventing) the fast break offense, but also (rather contradictorily) creating the “Four Corners” offense in use by many teams before the institution of the shot clock. <http://www.nba.com/features/black_magic_klores_080313.html>. McClendon attended KU in the 1930s, studying under Dr. Naismith himself, but could not play basketball on the varsity because athletics were segregated at Kansas and in the Big 6 conference in those days. KU’s first black basketball player arrived years later in 1951, shortly followed by others, but the first name you’d probably recognize would be Wilt Chamberlain, who attended KU from 1954-7.

As to your comment to please come back when I have something to contribute to an intelligent debate — this is not a debate. I’m teaching Remedial NCAA College Basketball History 001 to a class that has a problem in acknowledging historical fact when presented with it.

To all UK fans
In closing, UK has a great history, but it is what it is, one of the most stained in college hoops history. Embrace the positives (there is no argument there are lots), learn about your program’s history (don’t let the negatives get you down, but be honest about them), and hope that Calipari doesn’t get UK in trouble yet again (see UMASS 1996 and Memphis 2008) .

Oh, and if anyone out there has any pull with the powers that be in Lexington, push them to get KU back on UK’s regular season schedule. KU players and fans want to play against the best competition, and frankly, would like the chance to even out the series history with UK.

And let me try to help you understand that fact. You see, I have been doing a lot of research on the “season that never was” (I was born shortly thereafter). It turns out that it was the only season my uncle played for Coach Rupp. As a life-long UK fan, I have been trying to find anything and everything I can about his play on the court.

So….your “If we had any knowledge of our program”??? I just didn’t see the need to point out something we all knew was wrong.