Kentucky Basketball: Kanter Blowback
Here are five articles discussing the Kanter situation that hit the presses in the last 24 hours:
- Turkish GM's latest comments fuel perception he has an agenda - The Dagger - NCAAB - Yahoo! Sports
- Kentucky Sports Radio -- Pete Thamel’s True Weakness: Fact Checking
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Media Day question: Will NCAA free Enes for Madness? — Jerry Tipton on UK basketball
-
Turkish GM disputes Enes Kanter's father - NCAA Basketball - Sporting News
Discuss.
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The only thing I just simply cannot fathom is why people are playing this off like it is
an NCAA violation on our part. We have not done anything wrong here. Why do these supposedly educated and learned people claim that this is just another in a long line of NCAA violations by Kentucky and Calipari?
Frustrating does not even begin to cover it. We have Bruce Pearl playing his own personalized game of Stratego down in Knoxville (in his game there are no rules), and we are the less than desirables?
Stress : Confusion created when the mind overrides the body’s basic human desire to choke the living crap out of someone who desperatly deserves it. (Insert Pete Thamel photo here)
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 8:52 AM EDT reply actions
If Calipari plays Kanter
and then Kanter is deemed to have been a non-amateur player, it would be an NCAA violation. That’s the issue, and until people know for certain whether Cal plans on going ahead and playing Kanter — which he won’t, I’ll assume, if the matter isn’t cleared up and Kanter can’t practice with the team (hence why I think the NCAA makes “stop practicing” rulings like this) then some are just going to assume the worst, and some are going to assume the best.
The problem with the logic of many UK opinions I’ve seen on aSoB is that they assume that Kanter is in the right, and then move from there: so if the NCAA declares Kanter is ineligible to play, it is because Karakas, Thamel, and the NYT hates Kentucky and the NCAA hates Kentucky and Er’rybody just Hatin’ Hatin’ Hatin’, whether or not that’s actually the case. It’s poor form.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Last time I checked he is in the right in this country, unless someone proves otherwise........
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
In a public court, yes.
This is a private court.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Hehehe.....not anymore it isn't.....
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Kanter WON'T Play Unless NCAA Rules Him Eligible
Period.
by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 14, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
EXACTLY........
which is why all of this nonsense is for the birds. Cal is not going to play him unless he gets the go ahead from the NCAA……so why does everyone have to go ballistic? Unless they are discussing the hypocracy of the NCAA saying someone is eligible and then deciding later that they are not……
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
And just to be clear about Bruce Pearl:
I’m not going to respond to any jibes at him, good or bad, and will only say this of what I think should happen: I think Tennessee will lose a few scholarships over a few years, I do not think they should receive a post-season ban but I think they very well might anyways, and I do think that Pearl and Tennessee has responded pretty well, but not perfectly, after the actual violation occurred. It’s a mess, though, and a very disappointing mess. And that’ll be all I discuss here about Pearl, except the facts.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
My point was not to take a shot at Pearl, simply the hypocracy of us catching grief
over trying to give a kid a scholarship. People’s prioities are so screwed up it is not even funny. The Pearl situation is what it is, no more, no less. It will be dealt with and everyone moves on. It is not a blight on UT, nor on their fans, he deals with the fallout from that himself. If people want to call UT a bunch of cheaters because of something Bruce Pearl did then it just shows their ignorance. As far as his staff goes, it is his job to monitor them and keep up.
Just another case of 1+1=197,297,292
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know you weren't shooting at Pearl
I just wanted to clarify my point for those that will take shots at Pearl.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
It's like blaming you guys for Kiffin......it is just stupid
Now, blaming your AD????
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
http://i36.tinypic.com/140b0hg.jpg
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
not bad....lol
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope
that part of the delay in ruling on Kanter is the NCAA having to deal with the public perception of their decision. it is obvious that denying Kanter eligibility would upset the Big Blue Nation but be well received elsewhere. If there is a clear cut case showing Enes to be a pro, then this should have already been done. The recent article by Thamel might just be enough for the NCAA to go ahead and grant Enes his eligibility with some suspension and requirements to pay back some of the money. It is clear now that the GM of his Turkey basketball club has an agenda other than telling the truth and should cast suspicion on his statements and documents he has provided the NCAA. Thamel has an agenda, that is obvious, and if Kanter is ruled eligible, he will be left with no credibility whatsoever.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I don't think the NCAA is worried overtly about public perception
I think that the NCAA is firmly committed to making sure the rules they have are enforced (which is why I still wince to think of what will happen to Pearl — the entire unknown in what will happen is how well the NCAA will take Pearl’s admission and UT’s self-imposed penalties at this point, but I’m not getting hopeful.)
The real problem with the rule that they have is that it’s going to take an NCAA committee in each case to decide if a player has met the new rules. The process is especially lengthy because in this case: 1) It is the first case and 2) we have people countering his NCAA-eligibility.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
One thing I'd like to point out
With these stories is this quote:
Three or 4 million USD would not mean that much
Glenn Logan had this to say in the previous post here:
It is my understanding Fenerbahçe is entitled to approximately $400,000 in transfer fees if Kanter moves to another team in the EuroLeague. Karakas has just asked us to believe that he will waive that money, and if Fenerbahçe is willing to chuck $400 G’s into the crapper, it certainly isn’t incumbent upon me to dissuade them.
Well, there you have it, folks. $4 million is a drop in the bucket to Karakas, although at the same time, he curiously gives credibility to Calipari’s figure by not claiming it is inflated or made up. So maybe Coach Cal knows something we don’t here. $4 million is an order of magnitude more than the transfer fee that we have been talking about, and notably, Karakas says nothing about waiving that kind of money, even while he poo-poo’s it as chump change.
To me, just sayin’, it seems like Karakas either made a typo or did some calculation wrong, if the fee is one Zero off of what it actually is. It’s an understandable mistake, I think, and I for one assume this was the case here. I’m dismissing it as a clerical error, though his shot at Calipari is still completely unnecessary and makes Karakas look like a fool with his pants on the ground.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Not to mention his credibility lying there next to them......
I understand your points from the posts from yesterday bobo. And, being that you are a UT fan, they are not only understandable, but pretty much to be expected from an outsider looking in. But there is an inherent and obvious undertone to every criticism being made about this situation. And the really ridiculous part is that UK has nothing to do with it.
It appears as if a large portion of fans do not want to see european kids over here in the US playing scholarship basketball in the NCAA. Go to the NBA? Sure, no problem. But stay out of our colleges and dont take up scholarships that could go to American players. Some call that patriotism, I call it bigotry disguised as patriotism. If you let those European kids in, then who’s next? The Arabs? The Chinese? We have good ballplayers right here in the States, we dont need to go after these European kids, they are not even college athletes for crying out loud, they are pros.
This argument sounds a whole lot to me like the argument for bringing in “Kentucky” boys. Why are we recruiting from outside Kentucky? There are plenty of boys right here at home who are plenty capable of playing college ball.
The hypocracy is unbelieveable. This country was built by outsiders. They came from all walks of life. It is about time we woke up and realized what people are really saying when they talk.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
But stay out of our colleges and dont take up scholarships that could go to American players. Some call that patriotism, I call it bigotry disguised as patriotism. If you let those European kids in, then who’s next? The Arabs? The Chinese? We have good ballplayers right here in the States, we dont need to go after these European kids, they are not even college athletes for crying out loud, they are pros.
Just to make sure we’re on the same page: that’s not my approach at all, though I assume plenty of people do think this: there’s a lot of stupidity around here, especially when Alabama is in the conference <BOOM /ZING!!!>. I have absolutely no problem with college kids overseas coming to play in the States under scholarship — Emmanuel Negadu is from Nigeria, after all. My problem stems from my belief that these kids are Semi-Pro once they sign with a professional team. While I have heard just about all the arguments against that, and understand all that’ve been mentioned, I still think that opening up an overseas market that consists of players who are paid by Professional Basketball Organizations to work with their professional team, specifically, is wrong for an amateur-level of sports that the NCAA still tries to be.
And, to give the counter-point to those that might think I don’t like this rule simply because Kanter is going to Kentucky and not Tennessee: nada. I’m also not a fan of the NCAA rule that allows fifth-year seniors to transfer to a different school that offers a different grad-program and gain instant eligibility to play there (a-la Jeremiah Masoli) despite Mr. Feilds from UNC-Charolette coming to the Vols by way of that rule (though I will note the coaching change at UNC-C that led Fields to consider his options elsewhere for hoops).
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
But if they have no other route to go....i.e. college etc.,should there not be a way for it
to happen?
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
by the way.....Leigh Ann Toohey says hello.....lol
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
The question is: what's happening?
For some reason I doubt Kanter is extremely academically motivated. I’m guessing he won’t get a degree at the University of Kentucky, so really all he is doing is improving his Draft stock, isn’t he? Why not just do that in Europe?
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
The point here is that it should be his choice, not determined by
someone sitting back and trying to figure out a way to up his profit margin. If he wants to go to school, and he is eligible to go to school, then he should have the right to go to school without someone who has an obvious interest in his not going to ruin that chance for him.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not like this is the only possible way for him to do this:
his parents are, apparently, well-enough off to send him to California to play in an American Prep School, so why even bother with this d-league contractual crap or whatever?
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Oh I dont think it is about the scholarship
I think it is about the fact that he saw what Calipari did for last year’s crop of incoming freshmen and wants the same thing……When I went to college I wanted to be a TV station operator…..I could have gone to work for a station and skipped college, but I thought it was important to learn along the way instead of being seen as “uneducated”. Two years later I wanted nothing to do with TV…….but again, that was MY choice. I still don’t see why he should not be allowed to make his own. Assuming the NCAA rules that he is indeed eligible of course.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
But we're starting to blur the lines between amateur and pro, by allowing this.
If a foreign kid really wants to play college basketball in the United States I think the solution is simple: don’t sign a contract with a pro team. If that means that most European Kids won’t get a chance to play college basketball, then that’s the way of it.
I think the NCAA should focus on fixing the domestic problems before opening the can of worms that is the international system.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
but the NCAA already opened the door
are you saying you want it closed?
UK had nothing to do with this, we are simply the first ones to test the new rule as it stands right now.Which is what REALLY has me incensed at this moment. We are taking all of the grief so that other schools can benefit from our experience later.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I do want it closed
But that’s the problem that you have to understand: with so many fans wanting this door closed, and with Cal’s reputation of being a coach who just wants to shuffle players into the NBA asap …. well, you tell me how people will react? Especially when a former coach of the player in question starts saying how the kid was a Pro.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
But that means that they should have a problem with the NCAA, not Calipari.
He has to play the cards he is dealt. This was the NCAA’s rule. It is the NCAA’s decision as to whether or not the kid plays. All of this acrimony and grief should be directed where it belongs, not at Calipari or UK.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Calipari isn't dealt cards
He has a deck to pick from, and he willingly picked the controversial new snazzy one. I am sure he was aware of all of this when he picked up a phone to call Kanter.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Well, if I see two cards on the table and one is a
Jack, and one is an Ace…..I pick the Ace every time…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Aces are either the best or the worst, though
Depending on the game you’re playing, and this is a game that is constantly changing.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
This is true. I just simply prefer playing with them
as playing without. And I will take my chances. As long as I am not dealing from the bottom of the deck, and not palming cards, no one should have a problem with my playing.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay .. I'm not sure that I understand the new rules entirely or not
But from my understanding, the old rule was “If you sign a contract to play for a professional team, you cannot play, period.” The new rule is “If you sign a contract to play for a professional team, you cannot play, unless the contract only gave you money for housing and money to participate on the team.” Right? The difference between the two is the level of contract.
According to FIBA rules, as you say, you have to be 18 to sign a “Professional Contract” but there’s nothing to say you can’t sign a lower-level one. I suspect — key word there, as I’m not sure — that the “professional contract” controls how much money you can make, perhaps also in the vein of what the NCAA will allow.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I believe the way it reads is "reasonable" expenses
even the new rule is ambiguous in nature itself, which leaves a lot to interpretation.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
(which is the problem with the rule)
But yeah, so Kanter probably signed a contract and now people need to decide if it was reasonable or not.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Actually, no...
As a minor, Kanter couldn’t sign a contract by Turkish law. As you’ve carefully avoided till now, you should consider him as you would a US athlete at a prep academy, e.g., IMG Academy. Expenses in excess of $30K are normally recognized as typical at such basketball schools. Three years (Kanter’s years with Fenerbahce Ulker when he was 14,15,16) at one of these schools would effectively add up to the $100,000 of “payment” Kanter is accused of receiving by Thamel. As the NCAA doesn’t find the American prep school monies “unreasonable,” it makes sense to equate the two situations and suggest the amount of payment shouldn’t be a barrier given the new regs.
A rule that leaves room for some interpretation is not a problem.
The institution in charge can play games with a clear rule or an ambiguous rule. This rule was designed to treat Europe more like AAU ball. That, to me, seems “fair.” In fact, not treating similar situations similarly seems “unfair.”
Just b/c the rule says “reasonable” doesn’t mean there is a problem with the rule. We just need to look at the facts and make the call. If the rule is applied pretty consistently, then the rule and its application would be fair IMO.
How does a minor sign a contact?
Is the age of majority different in Turkey? I don’t know.
Scouting report on me: He may look slow on film, but wait until you see him in person.
Off Topic: Terrence Jones Blue Love
Jason King, yahoosports, has the story of Terrence Jones recruitment and his deep affection for Calipari and UK (in that order, illustrative, no?).
Socialism is not an alternative to capitalism; it is an
alternate to any system which men can live as human
beings." Ludwig von Mises
Thoughts anyone?
Regarding [Stoneridge Prep Coach Hagen], the statement says, “The decision to separate from Hagen was based on NCAA rules prohibiting such associations between Stoneridge Prep and its students and professional sports agents such as Hagen.”
Hagen was hired September 1st, Kanter committed to UK back in March, but apparently stoneridge prep has had rules violations with their basketball team in the past; i couldn’t find out what, though.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I think they threw the Kanter stuff in there to generate page views
This guy was hired after Kanter left, has nothing to do with him.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Yeah, I meant to add "I don't think it matters"
before my comment, somehow lost it. i agree.
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I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Tipton
Old Jerry makes it seems that if Kanter isn’t available, UK has no chance this year. I guess he’s looking to see how many hits this piece will get him. Zero I hope.
who?
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Oct 14, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Question: If the Turkish GM is now saying that $4 million is chicken feed to him
Why did he bitch about the $100 K or so that he allegedly “invested” in Enes?
What sense does that make?
It's the philanthropist in him......
he could have used that money to help some other poor lost soul.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
NCAA
As we wait for word on Kanter/Selby, has the NCAA begun making ANY decisions on ANY college basketball players yet? One would hope these 2 guys would be at the top of the list. Any ruling at all yet?
NCAA decisions
They also made a decision on Will Barton, the Memphis recruit. I think he was declared academically ineligible and they ruled in his favor on the appeal. I’m sure there are other decisions that are just not on our radar. I think the NCAA is just taking their time since this is the first decision under the revised rule.
Justin Jackson At Cincy
NCAA clearinghouse passed him, I think.
by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 14, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Two points:
-
(1) Has anyone considered the possibility that the NCAA may have encouraged Calipari/Kentucky to work with them to help them improve the path to eligibility for foreign athletes.
I could easily imagine a conversation going down like this:
Calipari: "Hey Mark (NCAA guy), I’ve got this foreign prospect, Enes Kanter, kid from Turkey, that’s interested in playing for Kentucky. Great kid, 18 years old, reasonable student, great family life, father’s a doctor. But like all European kids, he played for a ‘club’ team. Never signed a contract or anything but got uniforms, food and lodging, travel, etc. Father kept great records about the reimbursable expenses he got paid. Some of the guys have stopped recruiting him because it could be too big a hassle to get him eligible. What do you think?
NCAA: “Hey, John, good to hear from you! Yeah, we’ve heard of him. Sounds like a good kid. We’ve gotten some inquiries from other coaches. Tough to weed through the amateur-status issues on a situation that far away, foreign language and all, parochial attitude about foreign sports agencies, bad record keeping, likely won’t get any help from the ‘Club’. Tough, tough, tough. Hmmmm, but you say the dad kept good records?”
Calipari: “Yeah, tons of them. Receipts, everything. You should see it!”
NCAA: "I tell you, it sounds like this Kanter might be a terrific pilot case for testing our new regs on foreign eligibility, have you looked at them? What? No?…Anyway, it would help to work the bugs out of our procedures and give us a better idea of what to expect, what to look for and everything.
“I can’t promise you anything you know, but if you decide to go ahead and offer him, well, we’ll do everything we can to pick through the junk, I’ll get my top people on it, and get you a decision you can rely on before the season. You’re still going to Canada, right? Well, he probably won’t be cleared to play by then, best to hold him out, but he could practice, we’ll give him a waiver, that’s something. Sandy and us could work together on this. Sounds like a good chance. You never know, but, yeah, sounds like a good chance. Have Sandy, call me…”
.
.
.
(2) We Americans probably shouldn’t be so hard on Nedim Karakas (General Manager of Fenerbahce Ulker) for his comments regarding Enes’ student aptitude. The perspectives between the United States and most of the rest of the world on post secondary education are totally different. In the United States, virtually anybody who graduates High School is seen as a potential college student (over 75% of High School graduates think themselves “ready” to go to college). Maybe not Harvard, Princeton or Yale, but … somewhere. Over 30% of American High School graduates actually go on to an American college. (The National Center for Educational Statistics)
In Europe and most of the rest of the world, only 3-5% of secondary school graduates go on to University. Vast difference. When Karakas reasonably assesses Enes’ potential for matriculating at University, he probably considers the fact that only a comparative handfull of students were accepted to Turkish University from his kids’ secondary school and Enes beyond a doubt wouldn’t have been included in that group. In that academic environment, it’s likely only Brandon Knight from this recruiting class would have qualified to go to college in most of Europe - and maybe not, it’s that hard to get in. So, when Karakas says Kanter isn’t academically talented, he isn’t being insulting or especially brutally frank, he’s just stating a commonly understood European reality.
Is anyone really an amateur anymore?
What really gets under my skin regarding the NCAA is their adherence to the dogma that amateurism prevails. Let’s be honest, are any of these athletes really amateurs? I don’t know about you all, but I attended a state university and incurred about $100,00 in debt over 5 years. The reality is we ARE paying these athletes, and depending on the school, it can be well over $100,000 for 4 years of playing a sport. These athletes get a free education, they get books paid for them, they get training tables (free meals), they get top tier medical and rehabilitation services paid for when they’re injured, they get to travel to exotic places (Maui Invitational, etc.) to play games! How is that not reimbursement? How is that not pay? 90% of students attending NCAA member institutions aren’t granted these privileges. The NCAA needs to get off their high horse and acknowledge that we’ve been paying these athletes for years!
And let’s not even get me started on how much revenue the NCAA makes off of these athletes. NCAA athletics is about money, whether they are willing to admit it or not. Amateurism is relative, just like most things in this world.
Agree completely
I’ve always felt the same about these student/athletes. The NCAA is all about making money and I’m shocked that they havn’t already granted Enes his eligibility…!
Enes will be playing by January IMO.
Nick

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