Kentucky Basketball: Somebody Is Lying In The Enes Kanter Matter
by Glenn Logan on Oct 13, 2010 8:46 AM EDT
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
Email
PrintYesterday, New York Times sportswriter Pete Thamel produced another story in the ongoing saga of Enes Kanter's eligibility, once again apparently acting as a bullhorn for Kanter's former team, EuroLeage's Fenerbahçe Ülker.
Fenerbahçe has been suspected by many in the UK sports community (including yours truly) of having an agenda at work in this matter, including a financial motivation. Nedim Karakas, the general manager of the Turkish team, was back on the pages of the Grey Lady to reassure us that he is the good guy here, and everyone else has the agenda.
Quoth the Karakas in this most recent article:
"We have no intentions to ask for a release fee either from an N.B.A. franchise or any other pro club outside of Turkey," Karakas wrote in an e-mail on Monday. "Fenerbahce is not going to demand for any fee for releasing his rights and will respect FIBA’s International Rules."
It is my understanding Fenerbahçe is entitled to approximately $400,000 in transfer fees if Kanter moves to another team in the EuroLeague. Karakas has just asked us to believe that he will waive that money, and if Fenerbahçe is willing to chuck $400 G's into the crapper, it certainly isn't incumbent upon me to dissuade them.
My admittedly jaded conclusion, though, is that Karakas' wavier of the fees is an attempt to raise the credibility of his position with the NCAA, and is not serious. If the NCAA declares Kanter ineligible and he decided to defect to another EuroLeague club, I believe Karakas will change his mind and demand the money. Due to the nature of my work, I am somewhat familiar with how business works in that part of the world.
Karakas' claim of willingness to forfeit the transfer fee may be genuine, but in my opinion, it is not really believable. If you were in charge of a business, no matter how wealthy, would you forfeit $400,000 for no reason other than to make you look more sincere?
But even if I am wrong, the concession of the transfer fees adds no credibility to Karakas' statements, at least in my opinion. Later on in the Times' article, we have this:
Karakas disagreed with Mehmet Kanter’s contention that he "never once" discussed salary with Fenerbahce and kept "meticulous" records to ensure his son retained his amateur status.
"On the contrary to what he had said about his academic approach, he himself was the one to negotiate the terms of his son’s salary," Karakas said.
This is a reference to Dr. Mehmet Kanter's assertion to Mike DeCourcy in a Sporting News piece the other day:
Dr. Kanter said "never once" was a salary demanded from Fenerbahce or discussed. "I always try to protected Enes from anything might damage his future."
There is nothing really ambiguous about "never once." Karakas is calling Dr. Kanter a liar, and in no uncertain terms. The fact that he does not explicitly use the word does not change the fact that's what he's doing.
But Karakas is not done defending himself. UK coach John Calipari, who said recently that Fenerbahçe had "four million reasons" (we do wonder what he meant by that) to make sure Kanter is not eligible, comes under direct fire from Karakas:
"Three or 4 million USD would not mean that much," Karakas wrote. "So before he talks to press, I would advise Coach Calipari to learn more about the people and/or institutions he will brag about."
Well, there you have it, folks. $4 million is a drop in the bucket to Karakas, although at the same time, he curiously gives credibility to Calipari's figure by not claiming it is inflated or made up. So maybe Coach Cal knows something we don't here. $4 million is an order of magnitude more than the transfer fee that we have been talking about, and notably, Karakas says nothing about waiving that kind of money, even while he poo-poo's it as chump change.
As a Kentucky fan in these days and times, I also have an obligation to evaluate the fairness of Pete Thamel's writing, as he has been accused by a number of people, including me, of being biased.
Honestly, there is not that much wrong with this article. He attempted to contact Calipari and Dr. Kanter for rebuttal of Karakas, both of whom declined comment. That's how it is fairly done in the newspaper business. The absence of the deadly "could not be reached for comment" speaks to the sincerity of Thamel's effort to get Dr. Kanter and Coach Cal's side.
I could quibble about an editorial phrase or two, but really, they are hardly worth mentioning. The worst thing you could say (and this is admittedly pretty bad, if actually true) is that Karakas and Fenerbahçe are using what I perceive to be Thamel's dislike of Calipari to get him to act as a mouthpiece for the Fenerbahçe position. But that is certainly debatable, since Fenerbahçe's position on this is unquestionably news and certainly newsworthy.
In the end, this article adds a little heat and virtually no light to the Kanter matter. What we have had since the first Thamel article on the subject is little more than a "he said, she said" with both sides trying to influence the NCAA to see their point of view. This latest piece adds nothing new to the body of evidence currently under review by the NCAA, and no credibility, or effective rebuttal to, either side. Is it much ado about nothing? Well, it is much ado, that's for sure.
The wait goes on. Free Enes.
164 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Disagree
Enes Kanter is a pro basketball player. He played on one of the best teams in the EuroLeague. I want Kentucky to win championships and Calipari to succeed with all of his other recruits, but this one crosses the line. I will say it again: Kentucky basketball is better than this. We shouldn’t need to bend or break the rules to be competitive.
by Stephen Trimble on Oct 13, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions
What rule have we broken or even bent slightly???
That’s a crock. We have done nothing except try to give a kid a shot at playing college basketball that evidently wants to play. What line have we crossed? That is a copout argument used by our critics who don’t have the stones to come right out and say that they dont like UK for whatever reason. Don’t feed into that nonsense. We have not broken one NCAA regulation, rule or guideline. We simply offered a kid a scholarship, and are trying to get him cleared to play, nothing more.
Anything else is simply not true. The NCAA opened this door, not UK. If they dont want the kids playing over here, then change the rule, or interpret it so that kids in Kanter’s situation can’t play. It is as simple as that.
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well said Greg.
The barage of unfounded accusations and negative “spin”, from the Thamel’s of the world, seems to be taking a toll on some of the BBN. Stephen, don’t let the bastards win. Please don’t become a chicken little, by buying into the crap some keep spewing. As Greg explained, we have done nothing wrong. The process is being followed.
GAE....Reply to "What rule have we broken........who don't have the stones."
Not long ago I had the “stones”, “gonads”, etc., to say plainly what I thought and got “stoned.” What manner of hypocrisy is that?"
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Me thinks..
your primary focus is for Enes Kanter to not play for Kentucky this year. All the rest of your position is strictly a rationalization to support your agenda. In fact, if Enes is cleared to play, it will be because his situation was determined to be within the rules..not outside of them.
Blue Orion....Reply to "Me thinks."
I don’t agree with the first part of your comment. However the last point compels me to say that you place too much faith in the judicial fairness of the human race.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
What are you talking about?
The NCAA is a righteous, holy institution that has never failed before.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobothevol......."What are you...........?"
I’m going to take that as Tennessee tongue-in-cheek humor. LOL
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Comments in that font (done by @ stuff @ outside of the title)
Are generally understood to be sarcasm-font on SBnation, apparently. We’re just now falling in love with the font at Rocky Top Talk.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
My reply:
1. He is a professional when the NCAA says he is;
2. What line has been crossed? If he is a pro, no problem, he goes about his business. If not, he plays for Kentucky.
3. What does “Kentucky basketball is better than this” mean? What rules are being broken? He hasn’t played a minute, and there is nothing remotely unethical or illegal about trying to get him on scholarship. The NCAA makes this determination for dozens of players every year.
I don’t believe you when you say you want Calipari and Kentucky to succeed. That statement is belied by the transparent absurdity of your argument.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Oct 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree by Stephen Trimble
Stephen…..Explain why you think Coach Cal is bending or breaking rules by trying to get Enes cleared to play. Last year we got beat by WVU who had a player that had gone thru a similar thing and no one thought Huggins cheated by playing him. What KY is going thru with Enes is normal when a program is trying to qualify a foreign student. If you are a KY fan, then back our program, don;t say we are breaking rules until that is proven
Kentucky fan
Please repeat this as a mantra: Just because someone disagrees with you, they are no less of a fan. We just have different opinions about an issue. I want Kentucky to win as badly as anyone else, but I’m not going to like it if we sign up ex-star players of one of the best clubs in the very professional EuroLeague. Brandon Jennings gave up his collegiate eligibility to play in the same league as Kanter, and, in fact, played against him. Whether Kanter managed to avoid signing a contract is immaterial. Amateurs don’t play at that level of European basketball. This is a simple test of logic. I’ve no doubt lawyers and PR agents can spin this in many ways, but you can’t tell me that Kanter isn’t a pro. He seems like a good kid, and I hope the best for him — in the NBA, where he can also afford to pay for the best college education possible if that’s what he wants. Just don’t let him — or anyone else who’s played EuroLeague or NBA games — don the uniform of a college basketball team. Otherwise, the term “amateur status” loses all meaning. Come on, Kentucky fans, we’re better than this!
by Stephen Trimble on Oct 13, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to help your case of being loved
(Since I, a UT fan, am defending you) but I agree that I just can’t see Kanter — or anyone who plays in the Euroleague, as anything other than a Pro. I keep thinking about the Soviet Olympics teams that weren’t technically Pro players, since they didn’t get paid for their job (they got paid because WOO COMMUNISM or whatever) and were thus allowed to compete against college players everywhere else. Were those Soviet players not professional players in all respects except the fundamental definition? Was this fair for everyone else?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Ouch
Please no more help from Tennessee fans! :)
by Stephen Trimble on Oct 13, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah,
you know it’s bad when the Tennessee fans are on your side. Yikes! Kinda makes you want to reevaluate your position, doesn’t it? : )
At least I'm not mentioning
The pictures I have of Stephen Trimble at my house.
.
..
…
….
…..
/wrists.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobothevol....."Not to help........"
Man, you just opened an old wound for me. Our amateurs defeated the Ruskies so often that the crooked officiating in the, I believe, ’72 Olympics was the only way they could win a Gold.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Now let's ask if it was fair
In sports that both nations actually cared about. ;-)
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Get some facts.
Kanter wasn’t a star player on the team he played for. You argument isn’t valid.
by Clint Phelps on Oct 13, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Logical Steps: Nope.
Kanter might not be a star player on his team, but given his skillset there’s nothing to say that he couldn’t be — he simply isn’t played much, just 7.8 mpg. If his coach had decided to play him more, there’s little reason to be able to assert that he wouldn’t be a star player.
Where this train-of-thought will run into a problem is when a team does have a star player. What if this was John Wall in this situation and not Kanter? There’s little doubt in my mind that Wall could have been a star player in even the NBA, if put into the right system, and then what will be the defense? I would actually say it’s not fair, that some Players get to compete against professional-level talent while those in the United States have to compete against, you know, amateur talent.
We might see even worse things come of this. This isn’t to say that it will, but it really opens up the possibility of star American High Schoolers with the ability to to head overseas to play against much better competition in order to improve their skills quicker to get into the NBA quicker. And, hey, overseas the NCAA has a much harder time finding out if someone slips you a few hundred Euro’s into your locker, don’t they?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
The league admits it has amateurs and pros.
The Club Teams have different levels for different skill levels (like minor league baseball teams). The under-18 players are all supposed to be amateurs. The level they play at is determined by their skill level. Kanter left Turkey before turning 18.
Let’s review:
Under FIBA rules:
If you are under 18, you can’t sign pro contract.
If you can’t sign pro contract, you are amateur.
Kanter was always under 18 while playing in Turkey league.
Ergo: ???
What part of logic is troubling you again?
Imagine if NBA teams
were allowed to sign High School players that they wanted to, move them around the country and give them money enough to “participate on the team.” It’s that gray area that I don’t like and don’t want the NCAA to have any part of: we’re already seeing how fine a line “excessive” might be with regards to how much these players get paid, and I only see it getting much, much worse in the future.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
yeah, for reals.
And better the devil we know.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
If the NCAA is willing to declare him an amateur, then I can accept him putting on a UK jersey just fine. (Or any other Euro player on any other college team.) I do see your logic that skill wise he is a pro because of the league he played in, but that IS NOT what determines amateurism.
What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know,
But what we know for sure...but just ain't so.
-Mark Twain
Your argument actually makes UK fans look like some try to stereotype us. Not very deep.
Amateurs don’t play at that level of European basketball. This is a simple test of logic.
By playing at a high level, he must be a pro? In many sports, pro tournaments may be won and competed in by amateurs. Typically individual sports (golf, tennis, etc.) but the principal is the same — being really good does not make you a “pro.”
In Eurpoe, these club teams are feeder teams. It would be like the Lakers having their own high school, college, D-League and pro teams. An “amature” might be promoted to the NBA despite not being on the amateue “expenses” pay list. Under 18 in FIBA means you can’t be a pro (under the rules). No contract. But if a 17 year old is good enough (consider a Lebron James in the hypothetical NBA system I just described) he could easily be promoted into the upper leagues usually (but under the rules not exclusively) played in only by the older pro players.
Again, competing against pros doesn’t make you a pro. It just makes you good. Bobby Jones won lots of gold tournaments as an amateur.
Pro-Enes
Calm down, I’m not the one who apparently thinks all UK fans think alike. I don’t ‘assume that all UK fans share your opinion — although it appears I am in the distinct minority! — so I’m not stereotyping anyone. There’s no need to get defensive about a simple difference of opinion. It’s okay for people who like the same team to disagree on some things, as we are here.
That said, come on! What’s it going to take? We’re talking about a player who played several games on a pro team in a pro league both in Turkey and in FIBA series games. If Enes can play, let Brandon Jennings suit up for Arizona. If any other team but Kentucky was trying to pull this trick, I’m pretty sure nobody here would be offering the benefit of the doubt.
by Stephen Trimble on Oct 13, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish we had known you were such an expert on all things in FIBA and Turkey
you could have brought in an expert opinion much sooner and saved us all this stress and concern…
And the line about no one here caring about other teams is accurate for one reason only…..this is a UK blog…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
don't be a jerk.
Surely we can appreciate a perspective different than our own? Seriously, what’s the fun in hearing our echo all the time?
well, BSC........to be honest, I expect this line from
an outsider…..even bobo in his misguided, albeit well meaning way, has the excuse of being a UT fan for his opinion, but to hear the same rhetoric from one of our own that we rail against every day???
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He has a right to his opinion ABC
AND can still be “one of our own.” I HATE it when people question someone’s fandom over a differing opinion. Alwaysblue has been very respectful in presenting his opinion here.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Oct 14, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
GAE...."I wish we had known.................."
That is absolutely not fair. What happened to the “Everyone is entitled to his opinion” brouhaha?
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Ok,
I didn’t want to get into the thick of this really, but your Brandon Jennings argument suiting up for AZ really holds no water. I don’t want to touch on anything else you’ve said, (my job here today was to keep the crickets away not debate this topic until I’m dead : )) — but, Jennings didn’t suit up for AZ ‘cause he couldn’t make the grades, as I understand it. He chose the Euro-option as a last resort, it wasn’t his first choice, so please, don’t go on arguing about him. Argue a different point, kay?
As I understand it, Brandon Jennings played under contracts and was an admitted professional by all involved.
As I understand it. Plus, he had no interest in playing in college. That’s why he went there to begin with.
Not a problem. Your opinion is fine with me.
I remember being in the distinct minority! over the whole PPat Sr Day thing.
I was just trying to point out a fact (as opposed to opinion) that amateurs have historically played at very high levels with pros without any question of amateur status. While there are other arguments to make, I don’t think the “he played with pros so he’s a pro” argument even touches the important facts or issues.
JackBluto....."Your............"
That is a hell of a good argument. How about the Pro-Am golf tourneys? Does competing with and against pros make those amateurs pros? I think not.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
I would contend the differences also are
That Pro-Am tournaments are just what they say they are: tournaments. An amateur player does not sign a contract to train, practice, and play with the pro over the course of a year against other, mostly pro, competition.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobothevol
That’s true but….they ARE rubbing shoulders with pro golfers. Isn’t that what this whole, “Kanter is a pro” stuff is all about? As a minor he dared fulfill a dream that any teenager would aspire to. And legally, I might add.
Take it from someone who knows. Don’t confuse legal and moral issues. They are NOT the same.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Oh, I know
And — as I’ve explained elsewhere — I have a problem with the ethics of the situation and question the legallity of it (as others are doing). Legally, if the NCAA declares him eligible, then he is and I’ll live with Kanter playing in the SEC as institutionally-ordained in the same way I’ll live with Fields playing in the SEC as institutionally-ordained. Ethically (since this is more an ethics question than a moral one, as I understand it) I have a problem with players who sign monetary contracts with Professional Teams — for any reason — playing in an amateur league.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I think we passed that station long ago.
Every UT and UK player plays basketball for tuition, room, board, books and other intangibles. All of which have value. All of which other people have to pay out of pocket for.
They are already “pros” if the definition pay for play. Amateur is really a term that only means what the NCAA says it does. As long as the NCAA is internally consistent in its adjudication, there is no moral or ethical issue that I see.
But they do not -- by the rules at least
Get handed cash and told “go buy yo’self a house, brah.” They certainly don’t get paid 33,000$ a year or whatever the Turkish guy is saying.
Amateur is a word that means “not a professional” and that’s a simple defintion. Now, the NCAA can say who they give amateur state to, get to play in their system, which is why the new rule allows because of the different talent-raising system in Europe compared to America. But they won’t convince me that these types of players aren’t semi-professionals at the least and pro’s at the worst.
To show the silliness that can be taken with your rationalization of the NCAA’s decisions, too, allow me to pose a mythical scenario: the NCAA, by their rules, gets to define who can and who can’t coach teams under their jurisdiction. It they made it a rule that coaches with “Alapar” somewhere in their name couldn’t coach, as long as they are consistent in applying it, is there still no moral or ethical issue?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
what's an "alapar"????
lol…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Meant to say "alipar" ;-)
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobothevol......."But they do not........"
Bobo, I didn’t want to bring this up but guess I’ll have to. In 1988
while working at General Dynamics, Ft. Worth, TX, I had the pleasure of working with some Turkish toolmakers we were trying to train to assemble the F-16 Fighting Falcon in Turkey.
To be as inoffensive as possible, let me say that ALL of those dudes were a little less than honest. If one of them made a mistake, he would always point the finger at one of his compatriots.
We thought it was hilarious because they never owned up to anything and were always passing out candy to the Americans.
That’s a true story.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Not impressed.
First, the college education and expenses that players get are worth, even for an in statue student at UK (see, Miller), as much or more than $33,000/year (money allegedly given to Katner per year).
Second, “not a professional” is not a simple definition. The simplest def of a pro is you pay for play. But that isn’t certain. The NCAA threated to make ineligible several Div III basketball players (meaning they don’t get athletic scholarships) in Indiana b/c they played opposing teams in the movie Hoosiers. The NCAA determined they were paid to play basketball, not act.
The NCAA lets pro baseball players (and, I think, skiers) play college football and other sports. But not the other way around. A college basketball player can’t pose for a charity calendar. Yet that isn’t being paid to play basketball.
Do you not see that these rules aren’t really about some cosmic definition of amateur? I have yet to see Sir Thomas Aquainis opine on what the natural law definition of amateur was. I don’t think there is one. It means whatever the NCAA, or the Olympic Committee, or your local high school athletic association, says it means. Nothing more.
As for your “alipa” example, is that your this is a moral question argument? Really?
And you have admitted that AAU ball is essentially the same thing as they have in Eurpoe.
BTW, you might also consider the tax laws in the Katner example.
Let’ start with an example some can really relate to: I drive 4 hours for a business meeting. I stay in a hotel. I drive home then fly to another meeting. I rent a car. I eat a few dinners – nice steaks with lobster tails and kick butt sides. I pay with my personal credit card for the cash back bonus. On Friday, my employer gives me a check for $2,000 which cover my expenses, some of which are determined by a formula (mileage on my own car – and my car has over 100,000 miles so I come out ahead). I can use that check to pay a mortgage, buy a massage or pay off my credit card. My choice. The IRS does not tax that payment as income. Why? Obvious – it was reimbursement of expenses.
If Mr. Katner is telling the truth, and we of course are assuming he is for purposes of our discussions, then Katner isn’t a pro. As an under 18 not on pro-contract amateur, his payments were supposed to be reimbursement of expenses. It wouldn’t even be taxable as income.
You act like Kanter is a Chris Rainey or something
He’s either eligible or not, this isn’t a morality issue.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
But it is a judgement call at some level
Else this discussion would have long ago been laid to rest. The fact that there is a gray area surrounding him — made even worse because of the differences between European Leagues and High School — shows just how unique this situation is. Let’s not act like there is a clearly defined method regarding all of this; here the NCAA has to be careful about establishing a precedent that they might come to regret.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I don't disagree
I just reject the notion implied above that UK is “better than this.” If Kanter is ruled inelligible, he won’t play…and UK will not be punished as they did nothing wrong.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
But you're going under the assumption
That the initial ruling might be upheld / that there’s no possibility that more evidence can be uncovered. I don’t have too much faith in the NCAA to investigate all possible outcomes before the season starts, so if they rule Kanter eligible on the grounds of no proof-as-of-yet against him, I doubt they’ll close the investigation anytime soon.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I have zero faith in the NCAA
If the ruling comes down in the next few weeks that Kanter isn’t eligible, it would suck, but that would be it.
Could there be a risk of yet another NCAA retroactive punishment (after being cleared initially)? Sure, I suppose. But what are colleges supposed to do when the NCAA says a player is ok to play? Sit them in the off chance the NCAA might change their minds?
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Honestly, in my opinion?
I’d take the approach of “Kentucky is better than this.” Yes, I mean that. An ESPN article awhile ago mentioned that several coaches have stopped recruiting players before on the grounds of “suspicious activity” or some-sort regarding potential players who will come back to haunt them. I expect some middling-talent team who needs to take a risk to make a play for Kanter. Not Kentucky.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
"Suspicious activity?"
Kanter is a kid who wants to play college basketball in America. That’s really not all that suspicious, IMO.
This is new territory for the NCAA and I’m sure it’s a freakin’ headache the size of Texas for them. This case and its eventual determination will set a precedent for all future kids whom might want to come to the states to play college basketball therefore it needs to be gone through with a fine tooth comb. I hope they are thorough and like coop said above, if he’s determined ineligible, it would suck, but that would be it and we would move on and be just fine and dandy.
But, calling a kid who wants to come to the America to play basketball and pursue and education (though I’m actually not all that sure how serious that part is) after playing some ball in his home country, well, that’s reaching, because although it may be decided that he is/was a professional by NCAA standards, I’m sure the kid didn’t exactly sit up at night memorizing the NCAA rulebook and I’m fairly certain that he didn’t knowingly decide to break the rules of that rulebook or commit this “suspicious activity” you speak about of accepting money, if he did in fact do that. I’m sure he didn’t know that what he was doing at the time (playing ball for Turkey) was going to be such an issue.
Kanter is a kid who wants to play college basketball in America. That’s really not all that suspicious, IMO.
I should have said “suspicious circumstances”, or something of that nature. I can’t attest to anything Kanter has done, said, or how he acts because I don’t know him and don’t have any valid reason to call his character into question. I can’t say if the kid intentionally or unintentionally accepted money or anything (I also can’t say that he didn’t, but, you know). I was just making the point that several coaches were anonymously cited as saying they don’t choose to go after high-profile recruits because of a possible rule infraction that they can’t prove or disprove. This Kanter situation just stinks of this more and more and more, from what I can see.
Though, I have a question: has Kanter been declare ineligible to play, yet? If not, does Calipari plan on playing him until the NCAA tells him one way or another if it’s okay to or not?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
about this:
several coaches were anonymously cited as saying they don’t choose to go after high-profile recruits because of a possible rule infraction that they can’t prove or disprove.
High risk = high reward, and I suppose some coaches are not adventurous or visionaries enough to take that risk. Personally, and this is just me, I don’t speak for all my fellow BBN members here, obviously, but for me, well, I don’t mind the risk-taking all that much at least as it pertains to this particular situation because I don’t necessarily think we should shy away from every player that may pose problems and I don’t think that Enes knew he was doing anything wrong (wrong as in not being in compliance with the NCCA rulebook, that’s what I mean by that, nothing more). I think Enes deserves a chance to play college basketball. What’s the saying? If you aren’t living life on the edge, then you aren’t really living? : )
And, Kanter is actually ineligible to practice at the moment (this was as of last week, I believe) and I’m not aware if UK has asked for a waiver to change that or not? So, I guess he’s just hanging out. I assume he’s been going to class, but just hasn’t been able to practice with his hopeful future on-the-court cohorts.
I suppose some coaches are not adventurous or visionaries enough to take that risk.
High risk doesn’t always equate to high reward, and it’s certainly rarely directly proportional. If the potential risk is twice the potential reward, then where’s the logic in taking it? And yeah, I’m not saying that Coaches shouldn’t recruit these players, I just think they should be quite careful in making sure they don’t mess up with it, which is the hard part. And Calipari has a high-profile history of not exactly picking the right people to recruit.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobo, bobo, bobo.
Now see, with this line you just show your anti-Cal bias and I’m afraid I can’t take you all that seriously anymore. : )
And Calipari has a high-profile history of not exactly picking the right people to recruit.
While there have been a couple of recruits that have been attached to issues, the recruits he has picked that don’t have any issues attached to them far outweigh those couple that you are thinking about. I’d say his percentage of going after recruits that were squeaky clean is actually pretty damn good and I’ll judge him on the majority and not the minority, thanks.
You have to take Coach Cal’s recruiting history as a whole, bobo, not just pick out one or two instances that are in your favor to make your point.
I am taking his recruiting as a whole
And comparing it up with other coaches who have had national success recruiting — Tom Izzo, for example. Or Roy Williams. Or Mike Kryw/e. Given the sample size of these coaches, who have had more reward with their players to date than Calipari has, Calipari has a worse record of having recruits who have off-the-field incidents or eligibility issues.
And that, really, is a fact, not a bias. My Bias is that I don’t like him, which I certainly won’t deny, but I try not to delve too much into on a Kentucky blog.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Ohhhh...
Ok, I see where you were coming from now. You weren’t talking about Coach Cal’s recruiting history, but his compared to that of those others you mentioned. I lost you there for a minute, I guess (my bad), but now I get what you were saying.
My only retort to that would be that yes, while the coaches you listed do seem to have a very respectable amount of recruiting success, they have also, with the exception of RW, been coaching at their respective schools for a very long time and are selling a successful school/coaching package unlike Coach Cal who has only been at UK for one season. Obviously, I would think that the recruiting strategies used between the two groups would differ.
I realize that Coaches are recruiting these kids years in advance, but someone who is trying to resurrect a program and get it back to being uber-competative and a mainstay in the national conversation would be more likely to take a chance or two. It is entirely possible that Coach Cal’s recruiting strategy will change in the coming years.
And, besides, we don’t have any of those coaches listed above and I don’t really love to talk about what I don’t have : ) We have Coach Cal and I believe that loyalty is one of the most admirable of virtues and I am certainly loyal. I’m proud to call him my coach right now. All has been above board to my mind, as of right now, so no complaint from this UK fan on Coach Cal’s recruiting at this point.
Btw, bobo — it was lovely chatting with you today. I know that you don’t like Coach Cal and I totally don’t really care, you don’t have to. Thanks for reigning in your dislike since you were on a UK blog and all. That was awfully good of you. : ))
"Or Mike Kryw/e."
Cory Magette (sp) mean anything to you?
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
It means
One name. One. And how long has Coach K been coaching?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
One murder
can get you hung. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong, once or infinity. Or do you agree with the Bruce Pearl philosophy (before he was caught) that is okay to only tell the truth some of the time?
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
I don't think you got the point of the comparison
I’d advise reading the comment by BigSkyCat above, and then reading my comment again, and discover where it was that you drew the wrong conclusions of my point and where BSC drew the right ones. We can go from there to bring you to Enlightenment.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Roy Williams
got in trouble for giving his players presents…
by Clint Phelps on Oct 14, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
graduating players, we should note.
Not prospective players or current players.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
It was still a violation.
It doesn’t matter what kind of player they are. Don’t cherry pick just to stay on your side of the fence.
by Clint Phelps on Oct 14, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
My side of the fence was:
Calipari has a worse record of having recruits who have off-the-field incidents or eligibility issues.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Oh
Quickly, Williams just had to kick a player off his team, that he suspended last year for breaking team rules. So there’s one player this year with off the field issues.
by Clint Phelps on Oct 14, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, though
You’re just proving my point more. How many players under those coaches have allegedly punched their girlfriends in the face? How many have gotten into bar fights? How many have tried to rob people with BB-Guns and a Priu — oh, wait, crap.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I know there are a lot of players
That do stupid things. I’m not arguing that at all. But to say that Calipari has has this vastly worse record of having bad players is absurd. All of those coaches have kicked players off their teams or had players get in trouble, and the numbers don’t have some great divide between them.
by Clint Phelps on Oct 14, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And then you look at Vacated Wins:
How many have Calipari-coached teams had, combined, and how many have all the other coach’s teams had, combined? My point is that Coach Cal has, at the very best, a sketchy history with recruiting players when compared against many wildly successful coaches, each of them far moreso than Cal, of the past 10 years.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobothevol......"My side........."
And you are as full of the worst kind of BS
known to man. You are trying to proclaim guilt by association when no charge has even been brought. Never hold up in court.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
bobothevol......"Though, I have a question........."
Man, you know better than that. Or is it wishful thinking on your part?
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
Naw, it was just an honest question.
The NCAA can move fast; the NCAA can move slow. The NCAA can move — apparently — however fast it want to go.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I think that a lot of coaches don't go after high profile players..
because thay can’t land them…got rationalization..??
And I agree.
But if you think that it’s always the case, then you’re fooling yourself.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
What if Kanter did it correctly and the Club is trying to sabotage his NCAA opportunity, which makes perfect financial sense?
I don’t know the kid or his family, but if I did and I believed him, I would fight to have him play for me.
I hope Bill Self feels the same way about Shelby.
" Let’s not act like there is a clearly defined method regarding all of this"
Tru did a fantastic job of breaking down the rules as they apply to the Kanter matter. No gray area whatsoever. The NCAA wants to be more open to foreign born players and this is just one example of that new desire.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
But there's not
Because these rules have yet to be interpreted. What constitutes “excessive in nature”? What is “directly tied to competition”? These are the gray areas that have to be decided by the NCAA now that the ruling is being used, and since there are reported things that most would quantify as “excessive.” It’s like saying we have a clearly defined method regarding our government, and yet …
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Erk.
In my examples, I made the mistake of just looking at the big first bit of the article you posted, though the point remains the same:
provided the agreement does not guarantee or promise payment (at any time) in excess of actual and necessary expenses to participate on the team.
‘actual and necessary’ are ugly words when it comes to a budget. I mean, someone might interpret that as “money enough to live in some place with a ceiling where he can sleep, maybe by himself, and eat a sandwhich once a day. He can walk to the stadium barefoot, where we’ll give him the shoes he can wear while training and playing, and we’ll let him ride on the bus. In the Baggage section.” — not that anyone could, but I think you get the point of there still being a degree of gray area.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
The rule was written for folks like Kanter.
The fact that it requires some application doesn’t mean it is wrong to see how it is going to be applied to Kanter.
There is nothing wrong with this. I myself have wondered how AAU got around these rules for so long. How much money do you think an AAU team spends traveling a team full of teenagers around the country for these tourneys? I’d but the number would surprise most of us.
Consider that Katner’s alleged $100,000 in payments were over more than one year (3 I think). How does that compare to an AAU travel budget I wonder. (I do wonder. I have no idea.)
One Word
Nonsense.
Kanter is not a pro player.
UK broke the rules often in 1970’s and 80’s resulting in NCAA infractions in 1976, 1988, and 1989.
Did you complain then?
by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 14, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Tru...
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Thamel’s implying that Kanter is described as academically challenged. That is the same paint he tried to brush Bledsoe with. He does have an agenda, and I totally disagree with Stephen’s comment.
that was the worst part of the story
Thamel didn’t have to print that, he did so as an intentional shot at Kanter, Calipari, and the University of Kentucky.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Coop, is there a way to find out if Fenerbache has taken fees for players coming over here before Kanter?
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You'd think that would be something Thamel would have investigated.....
I’m sure it is out there somewhere.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
I sent an e-mail to Thamel to ask that very question......
dont know if he will respond, but I sent it anyway…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't hold my breath
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
That wasn't Thamel's imputation.
That was flatly stated by Karakas, not Thamel.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Oct 13, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
if he could just get in shape and play ball.....lol......
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Cuz...
is the greatest big man ever!!!…love him!!!
"Every sweet has it's sour, every evil it's good."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Kanter...
still hoping for him to wear our Blue and White!!!
"Every sweet has it's sour, every evil it's good."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Somebody's lying.
That much is clear. Either Karakas or Dr. Kanter. So, how does the NCAA resolve this? In my line of work, when you can’t give more weight to one side or the other, the decision usually comes down to who has the burden of proof. And here, I believe, the burden rests with UK to prove Enes’ eligibility.
Here’s hoping the NCAA will find a way to give more weight/credibility to the father. The NCAA wants to open the doors to foreign players, and sometimes the wanted result finds a sufficient rationale.
seesm as though the Gm was either a little bit exuberant in his assessment of the numbers
that Fenerbache puts up money wise, or Pete Thamel can’t count………
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Holy Sweet Baby Jesus
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
That was so good I had to tweet it
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
I wouldnt let Thamel report on my Dachshound's bowel movements
for fear of him not getting the color right…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
GAE
Dachshound=Dachshund=Badger Dog. They are not a hound. The German word for hound is Dogge. Pronounced, dough-guh.
Bad week to quit sniffing glue!
lol
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah -- numbers like that always make me think about the claims of special interest groups.
X number of women died last year of breast cancer.
Y number of men died last year a butt cancer.
Z number of people died from bad doctors.
A number of kids died from improperly buckled car seats.
B number of people died from not wearing seat belts.
C number of people died last year from DUI incidents.
D number of people died from lack of health insurance.
E number of people died from heart disease.
F number died from whatever killed this celebrity (usually drugs of course).
Add them up: usually about 6 times as many people that acually died last year.
I agree with you, I think.
And I always think it’s up to the school to prove eligibility — usually it’s not a problem, though, given that you can point to where the kid played, you have a general way to show who he’s been in contact with, etcetc. Europe dashes these ideas quite considerably, though.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Interesting
And a bit scary. It seems to me that UK is blazing a new trail in basketball yet again.
There are many implications to opening the door to recruitment over seas. Fact is the developement leauges over there have good money invested in teams and players. Some of these teams may take a hit in the future if the best players begin to play for college teams in the US. Kids will come here with the hope of bettter exposure and a big pay day with the NBA. I think the NCAA knows this and the NBA may be encouraging it in some way. Why change the rules now?
The big difference is these players can get paid money to develope in europe. The choice is to pass on the pay and go to college (hopefully get an education) while dreaming of suiting up in the NBA for big money. This is not necessarily an easy sell for college coaches either.
I know UK is not bending rules here. But we are the first team to try this. Obviously that is getting us some attention unwanted or not. There is a ton of money and big business involed in a deal like this so it’s a good story.
In the end I support this effort and I think Kanter will play regardless of little ol Thamel. It just scares me a bit to be blazing this trail when the target on our back just seems to get bigger. Oh well, being the best isn’t easy. Go Cats!
by 166leslie on Oct 13, 2010 11:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
In any case
Nobody gives a crap about WVU basketball. UK is the winningest program at our level, though. With great power comes…. ;-)
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Oh ... write .. whoops.
Totally unintentional O:-) (really, actually ;-) )
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I think that this is what we signed up for...
If we want to be the best, we will need to test the waters every now and then. If we catch a little heat, so what. Our skin should be geting pretty thick after a year + of witch hunts. If CBB is an enterprise as well as an educational endeavor, then you need to be innovative and global in perspective..isn’t that a pretty good description of our current business plan..?? Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead..!!
Absolutly!
I agree. UK going global sounds great to me. Coach Cal said he would improve our brand. Some others out there are feeling a bit threatened and jealous.
Speaking of Global did anyone see Chuck and PPat
playing in China this morning? Seemed PPat played good defense and had several boards, not sure how many. Chuck looks as if he lost weight and made some moves to the basket and of course great defense and passing. The Favor kid (#3 in the Draft) for the Nets looked really bad, Boogie will school him. Expecting to see “FREE ENES” shirts in China but I didn’t. maybe a rule against “FREE” anything in China.
Kanter
i thought the kid from W.VA. play under the old rule of NCAA….
GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He did.
And the new rule was created because of cases like him and a few other recent overseas players.
by Clint Phelps on Oct 14, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Baylor
did anybody here about the Baylor issue…
GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is my understanding Fenerbahçe is entitled to approximately $400,000 in transfer fees if Kanter moves to another team in the EuroLeague. Karakas has just asked us to believe that he will waive that money, and if Fenerbahçe is willing to chuck $400 G’s into the crapper, it certainly isn’t incumbent upon me to dissuade them.
I don’t see where he said that at all, based just on the quote you gave. I mean, I doubt that they are owed any money, unless there’s a contract, if Kanter decides to go play in some other league. FIBA International Rules are different from the EuroLeague rules in the same way that NCAA Rules are different from NBA ones: while related, they don’t cross over on a 1:1 ration, especially when it comes to players moving around teams.
Though, I have to mention how humorous it is that we’re talking about a guy who plays in a League where player transfers earn a team 400,000 dollars. I’m sure this is all just minor-league stuff though, right? I think some UK fans are looking at this situation with a bit too much bias: where-as in other cases involving Calipari and recruiting are either issues of hindsight being 20/20 or pure judgement calls on “risky” players, in this case Kanter possesses a very clear problem initially. This situation, more than any other, shows an incredibly high possibility of ruining a season post-mortem with additional discoveries that might not come to light in the present investigation, a’la Derrick Rose but with a big red warning label on it.
And to clarify if the NCAA rules that Kanter is eligible to play basketball at the University of Kentucky people across the nation will see this as a blatant toeing of the line by a Coach who already has a shady reputation. Let me ask you this: what would you say if Kanter comes to Kentucky, is a major component of a 2011 national championship, and a year later it was found out that Kanter was receiving money from his European Agent or what-have-you and the NCAA brought down some degree of punishment on Kentucky. What would you think of Calipari if that happened?
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
And note:
I haven’t been following this situation closely, and only chose to jump in here after reading this one article after several weeks of inactivity with the situation. I understand some of these questions have probably been answered before, and in quite some depth.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Boy,
you really fear playing UK with Kanter in the line-up, don’t you?
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Not, really, no.
I mean, I think the Tennessee team this year is better than last year’s, and can’t see Kentucky’s team being better. As long as we have Bruce, we’re able to beat anybody ;-)
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
Heeyyyy bobo,
It is minor league stuff because Kanter hasn’t signed a contract, and Fenerbace has developmental teams as well. They have their own farm system.
And there's my problem with it:
This, to me, qualifies them as “Semi-Pro” — not amateur. Someone mentioned the AAU above, the difference is that these players sign a contract to play with a Pro Team. If they are on a D-League team, that’s a different story to me, but Kanter isn’t. He was with the Pro Team. I would want someone playing basketball who was signed by the LA Lakers and was on their team for a season to be allowed to play in College, and it’s the same thing to me, here.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
It is my understanding
that if they are under 18, they can’t sign a contract.
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
From what I inferred from the NCAA Rule, they do sign a contract
But not — by FIBA rules — a “Professional Contract.” I’m certainly no expert on this, and it’d be lovely for one of you more knowledgeable types to find the facts behind it, but I would imagine that a “Professional Contract” includes getting more money than is “necessary for housing and to participate on the team.” FIBA might have a set, defined amount, but that’d be strange given the different cost of living in different areas, which continues to leave gray area, in my mind.
But since the new NCAA rule allows players to sign a contract to play in an overseas league as long as they aren’t making money off of the contract, I would assume that yes, a contract is signed for Player A to play for Team B.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I'm sure there is an agreement, i.e., contract, of some type that sets the rules for the players.
Thus, the question is “professional contract.”
But that isn’t anything big whoop either. I sign a “contract” for my daughter to play softball. We recognize the risk of injury, promise not to beat up the officials, etc. It is a contract. The travel teams for the older kids have contracts too, including the obligation to pay certain expenses, etc.
Contracts are a way of life in anything, including amateur sports.
Okay, rephrase;
They sign a contract for the Professional team to pay money, just money for expenses like cost-of-living. Point being: they are getting paid, to some degree, in money.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
No less than i do now
I just don’t understand how coach could be blamed for any decisions made later by the NCAA
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
If you buy something from someone you know to be a thief
And you get in trouble for it, is it your fault that you ’didn’t know the item was stolen?" Now, granted, that analogy only goes so far in recruiting and the like, and the level for gray area is very murky, especially when trying to form an outsider’s opinion on it, but to me when a Coach knows a player comes with certain Red Flags and goes ahead and pursues him anyways, it does reflect back on the coach in some manner of lighting.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
I
would still think the NCAA were worhtless and even more rediculous. I don’t agree with vacating wins. Not the correct way to punish infractions. As far as Cal goes…pretty bad backfire.
Just wait till we start
getting the Chinese kids involved!!!
Cal has already taken a trip over there and has expressed the desire to get some kids from there.
As long as we’re getting the 5* kids from the USA then these intl distractions will be just that.
It would be nice if a kid from overseas that wanted to play ball in a US college could come over here on an NCAA approved sponsor status and play ball in HS here before he went to college. That would solve a lot of eligibility issues. Just an idea.
I have kleptomania,
but when it gets bad,
I take something for it.
It's a nice idea
But, given the situation of European Sports, it’s not one that’ll happen anytime soon, I don’t think.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
bobo; glad you are here
You give the regular posters a chance to finetune their responses.
Reminds me of debate practice.
"SPORTS"--Not interested----"CATS"--Pull up a chair,I've got all night.
Thanks.
i was around aSoB quite often last year, and I do try to bring up certain points that i think ya’ll are omitting. I do love debating, which is why I come over here. i’ll leave trolling for other people other times.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
FREE ENES
Did KANTER PLAY MUCH ON THAT TEAM
GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not true
imagine first, that in this country we didn’t have high school or college basketball…and a kid wanted to play hoops..he would be playing for a club team (or pro team)…if his parents wanted to retain the kids amateur status they could…no matter how good the player was at 15-17 (thus he may be playing good minutes etc)…so in reality, a kid like Enes Kanter can play against the best Euro players while retaining his amateur status by not taking $$$ over his basic needs (which of course opens another can of worms as to what constitutes basic needs)…the argument of they Olympics is really a moot point, as every team other than the US were using Pro/Amateur players (team players who were subsidized by their respective governments) during the 60’s-70’s and 80’s…as for UK taking any player regardless of their off-court issues…one has only to look as far back as last year and Lance Stephenson (with Calipari)…and this year with Quincy Miller (backed off because of Clifton and the sleaze of Pitino hiring Tim Fuller)…I think Coach Cal has a clear idea of who he wants playing at UK and the types of individuals he wants…I think Kanter will be playing for UK this year (after a 8 game sit-down) and the Turkish team can cry in their Raku…the GM for Fenerbache is lying through his teeth when he says he doesn’t care about the transfer fee…why would he care one way or the other about Enes Kanter otherwise (seeing as how Enes played in Cali last year anyway, it’s not like Enes is going back to play for Fenerbache anytime soon)…take it for what it is…slimy individuals trying to slime a kid and his family (Anthony Davis Jr anyone) for the agenda of greed and career building….UK is completely within the regulations by offering a scholarship to Kanter…and can’t wait to see him play at UK…
Shame Shame Shame
The issue is not about the eligibility of Kanter, it is rather about the notion that Karakas is out for blood and that Thamel and the NYT are giving him a forum from which he is unleashing hate and hurt against Kanter. Since he claims he provided the NCAA with all the documents supporting his claim for payment, let he sit back and relax.
Ir is obvious that two agendas have croseed here with different goals: Karakas to publicly force the hand of the NCAA to rule him ineligible to retain Kanter and to discourage future defection in addition to Thamel’s crusade against UK basketball after the Bledsoe story blew back in his face.
The story has hate and agendas all over it. The NCAA has to take into consideration whether Karakas tricked the Kanters with those payments. I believe that the NCAA may determine that these payments may have been excessive and that the Kanters may have to pay back some of it in order for Enes to be ruled eligible.
In this case, would it be legal under NCAA rules to establish a fund to help pay back this debt if the Kanters can’t afford it?
Shame on the NYT, Thamel, and Karakas.
Free Enes
In this case, would it be legal under NCAA rules to establish a fund to help pay back this debt if the Kanters can’t afford it?
I’m pretty sure … no. That’d really negate the whole point of him having to pay it back, wouldn’t it? Though, I mean, if you can’t get a loan for that….
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
On A Much More Important Note
The McDonalds UK Calendars are out……photos include Big Cuz……The Class (NBA draft picks) and The Freshmen, including Big Enes……
and Terrence Jones looks almost as big as Kanter and Vargas…..
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions
Comments
What I hate most about the Kanter situation is people offering opinions on a subject they have absolutely no knowledge of. None of us have any viable information about what happened in Turkey between Kanter and the club. Hell, Thamel is clueless and is offering opinions. The NCAA will make a decision sooner or later, or let the process play out. Then offer an opinion.
The Blogosphere -- and the internet, really, is built for opinions though, right?
Else we’d just read AP Reports all the time. ;-)
I get annoyed by people who irrationally take one side. I’m of the opinion that Kanter shouldn’t be allowed to play, but not because “OMG KANTER IS CHEATZERZ UK SUX LOLIPARI!!!!111”, and those who think Kanter should be allowed to play are entirely acceptable to me, except people who are “OMG KANTER IS INNOCENT I KNOWZ NYT HATE US EUROSCUM!!!!!!!” or what-have-you.
______________________________________________
I will give my North Carolina for Tennessee Today. Apparently.
dude,
you are on a blog. It gives people a chance to offer opinions and discuss teams, players and the goings-on about those things with others. That’s what a blog does. That’s it’s WHOLE purpose.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but if you don’t like “any of us” (I took that to mean us UK fans and specifically those of us who have commented in this thread) offering opinions, then what are you doing on a blog?
(Ha, bobo. I see your comment coming up just now, and yes, I think the internet, the blogosphere especially, is built for opinions. On that we can certainly agree. : ))
My comments were meant mostly for Thamel, but there are several others that are off the wall.
I can live with informed opinions, there’s the difference.
Then you should not be on a blog.
and i guess you should not read the LHL or the NYT either
That's not the issue
The issue is the vendetta that brought together a slime Turkish GM and a slimer NYT reporter in an uglly and obvious attempt to force the NCAA’s hand and rule Kanter ineligible. I hope the NCAA shows some courage and tell the Karakas guy to go to hell.
"I hope the NCAA shows some courage and tells the Karakas guy to go to hell".
Funny, I was just thinking that if Kanter is ruled ineligible I hope he and his family tell Karakas and the Turkish team to go to hell by going to the D-League or something like that.
Seriously, if Enes doesn’t end up a Cat, it will be fine, but I kind of have a problem with the Turkish team coming out a winner in this one. We can’t have him? Fine. Then neither can they. That’s only fair given their behavior and what appears to be deceitful dealings on their part, doesn’t it?
I have no opinion
on the Kanter case since I have no facts however I do have opinions on other people’s opinions!
I woke up feeling BLUE this morning. It's gonna be a great day.
Very nice discussion in here.
I want to add one more thing.
Before Enes Kanter changed to UK, he was committed to Lorenzo Romar, one of the most respected coaches in America with respect to a clean program.
So I guess what I’m saying is this – if he’s good enough for Romar, he is good enough for us, at least when it comes to the ethics of the situation. If he had committed to Izzo or Williams and changed to UK, would we be hearing the same sort of debate about UK being “better than that”" I rather think no. Romar is a suitable proxy for those two for the nonce.
BoboTheVol, with due respect, I think on this point, your argument is just too convenient.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
not to mention too tired......lol
I Shall Always Be The Cat......In The Hat!!! The Artist Formerly Known As ABC!
by Greg Alan Edwards on Oct 13, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Liar Liar
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
boo red X!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
This is highly entertaining discussion, but
I can’t believe no one has raised the issue of the apparent exaggeration by the Turkish GM of his team’s revenues. Apparently, his statement would indicate his team grosses 50% more in revenues than the LA Lakers. The reason this is pertinent is that it calls into question his credibility on the other statements he makes.
it's all a bunch of bull hockey
NEUTER THAMEL! Said this at Cal’s Women’s clinic and I’ll say it again and again and again and have been saying it since he started the crap about Eric. I’m tired of this idoits crap and of every other so called journalist that is a Cal and UK hater.
NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL! NEUTER THAMEL!
Don't play into his hands like that
The best way to get back at someone on a witch hunt is to point out their errors, which his latest story had plenty.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
[UPDATED 01/18/2012]
Related FanPosts on A Sea Of Blue
Related FanShots on A Sea Of Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
