Kentucky Basketball: Sifting Through The Wreckage of a Formerly Undefeated Season
by Glenn Logan on Jan 27, 2010 2:29 PM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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PrintI have to admit, with the exception of some psychopathic techno-terrorists claiming to be Kentucky fans (And why don't you cowards question Patrick Patterson's commitment to his face instead of on Facebook? Because he would offer you a gentle reproof just before pulling off your arms and showing you the anatomical inner workings of your shoulder socket, that's why) has been overwhelmingly mild. Especially so, considering the embarrassment of having the first #1 ranking since 2003 snatched out from underneath their Kentucky Wildcats team by the unranked South Carolina Gamecocks only 24 hours or so after being anointed the top team in the land.
Leaving aside the whack-jobs, which fortunately seem to occupy sites other than A Sea of Blue, I have been pretty impressed with the analysis that I have seen in the postmortem. I think most people understand why Kentucky lost this game, and are placing the blame squarely where it belongs -- on the other team. The Gamecocks had a great game plan that worked to perfection. That has happened at some point in the season to every Kentucky team I've ever been privileged to watch, so that's that.
What could the Wildcats have done differently? Well, I think most of it's been said -- more intensity, better positioning on the floor, fewer turnovers, a few more bounces going our way (I hate that one, though), trying too hard, better rebounding (more on that later), getting to more lose balls, better block outs, etc. All of these things have merit at some level or another, I think, and any one or more of them could have gotten Kentucky over the hump.
Which now begs the question -- is this "The loss that the Wildcats needed?" Well, I've never been a proponent of "good" losses, but I will be the first to admit that losses have a way of focusing the mind in a way that close victories do not. I don't know what's going on in the minds of these young men, but Coach Cal has intimated, and it does make sense, that his young charges have had the impression that they can turn the intensity on and off at will. I wonder if they still believe that today? If not, it was well worth the loss to get that out of the way.
I'm confident much more can be learned from this affair than might have been learned in a 5-point victory, and as usual, I like to turn to the stats to see graphically where things went bad for Kentucky. So here are the Four Factors from last night's game:
The first thing we see is that UK shot a very low eFG%, BUT, the Wildcats held South Carolina to an eFG% of only 37.5, and a FG% of only 34.4%. Defensively, the 'Cats played well enough to win 98% of their games. In fact, I will say that overall, the defense was as good as it has been all year for most of the game. That's a very positive takeaway.
Where UK went wrong is easy to see. Besides shooting very poorly themselves (a result of some very good Gamecock defense), they allowed South Carolina to get lots of second shots by way of the offensive rebound disparity, and had a bunch of empty possessions by virtue of a 22.1-16.2% turnover disparity.
On top of all that, South Carolina's free throw rate % was almost 44% -- far higher than their average of 32%. Kentucky's FTR% was the opposite -- 37% where they average 41%.
So in the end, the Gamecocks won three out of the four factors to wining, and UK still had a chance to win. I think that's more of a positive than a negative. The big negative, though, is that UK lost. Give all the credit in the world to Darrin Horn for changing his team from fast-paced to a slow, grind-it-out team in just a few days. That really seemed to take Kentucky out of their offense, and minimized the effect of the talent disparity.
A couple of things I really didn't understand. What offense were we running last night? It didn't appear to be the dribble drive, even though USC played a lot of straight man and we played a lot of four-out sets. But the ball was going into the post from the wing, often on the first or second pass and before even one drive was attempted, so I don't really know what that was.
One thing I found odd, and this was mentioned in the comments earlier, was that Patrick Patterson spent a lot of time in the deep corners. That's the right place for him to be in the dribble drive, but with Cousins always on the strong side, that would seem to fly in the face of the DDM principles. So what were we doing?
Well, I'm sure Calipari would just tell me I don't know basketball (never mind the fact I've been a student of the game for many years), so fine. Maybe it was some new offense that he was trying out, or perhaps the players simply failed to execute what they were being told.
Either way, the result wasn't pleasing to the eye, nor was it pleasing to the scoreboard. Our guards overpenetrated a number of times, and wound up throwing the ball to South Carolina players who stayed at home on the perimeter and jumped into the passing lanes on a penetration move.
John Wall and Eric Bledsoe had 9 turnovers combined, and UK as a team had 15, which is right on their average for the year. And even though turnover % was high, it wasn't stratospherically so. In fact, the 'Cats turn the ball over 21% on average, and they turned it over 22% last night. But they failed to force the Gamecocks to turn it over enough, which really hurt.
But the thing that hurt the worst was losing on the offensive glass. If you are looking for one statistic that is out of the ordinary for Kentucky, especially against a much smaller Gamecock team, that is the one upon which you can place the blame. UK had a tremendous size advantage, but South Carolina overcame it with hustle and determination.
In the end, I think South Carolina just wanted this game more than Kentucky did, and yes, that concerns me a little. At this point in the season, motivation should not be a problem, but the flip side is that with as much success as Kentucky has had this year, it is logical to assume that some complacency would follow.
So now it has, and we lost, and it's time to retool the attitude and get ready for an ever better team in the Vanderbilt Commodores on Saturday. The good news is, this one is in the comfy confines of Rupp Arena, where the 'Cats have played really well this season.
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We will be fine Saturday as long as everyone shows up ready to play.....
I get the feeling they will…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Congrats to Gamecocks
They beat us fair and square.
Watching the post-game interview, Cousins seemed to have been in a deep funk (especially since he just scored a personal best). This could be a very good thing or a bad thing.
If the team takes his words to heart (having to focus a lot more during every possession) then this might have be a very “good loss”.
Saturday will be very interesting.
I can’t wait.
strange game...
Perry S was the first one off the bench. That was bizarre, and I’m definitely not blaming the loss on him…it just seemed we may have been trying something new…or perhaps cal was relying on seniors to guide the freshmen through the uncharted waters of #1 and predidential phone calls and such. I have only one question; why does J Wall wait until the last three minutes of the game to really start penetrating and trying to draw fouls? We’ll be fine and if these kids are the warriors I think they are, I’d hate to be vandy on saturday.
I left TN and now I am back in the Bluegrass... just in time for Football and Keeneland! Life is great!
by sleepytimetea on Jan 27, 2010 2:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
the corollary to your comment on perry s...
was that ppat was the first player taken out. i found that just as interesting….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jan 27, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Team Record
If the Cats win all the home games and split the road games, does 12-4 conference record get a #1 seed? Thoughts?
Depends on what other teams do
I think Kansas will do better than that. One Big East team will certainly get a 1 seed. So now we’re looking at other Big East teams, Michigan State, Texas, and the top of the ACC as competition.
I think a 30-4 record overall should get a one seed… but not something we can control at that point. It’d be much safer if we went in at 32-2 or better!
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
As others have said, this depends a lot on other teams
I think Kansas and Texas are about as close to mortal locks as you can get at this point in the season. The Big East will certainly have 1 team and a handful of others that will challenge.
Mich. St, Purdue, and Duke seem to be the only plausible candidates from the Big 10 and ACC. Nothing to worry about from the Pac-10 and none of the other non-BCS conferences has a reasonable #1 seed candidate this year.
I think UK could go 12-4 and get a #1 seed if they win the SECT and beat some combination of Tennessee, Vandy, Ole Miss, and Miss St in two of the games.
3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.
Kids
at this age don’t have the “reality” mechanism in their brain at this age. Cal has been telling them for months that this could happen and it did. Kinda like my momma telling me to never take my eyes off the road because I could wreck. The one time I did when I was 18 I had a major car wreck that could have cost me my life. That was my wake up call. Kids this young just don’ thave the capacity to believe what they are taught. They have to experience it first. Now of course this is just basketball not real life but it still applies I think. They just expreinced what can happen if you are not focused. They were not focused from what I saw last night. SC won that game yes, but we all know if Kentucky was focused they would have killed them. I said this about Texas last week……Texas wasn’t focused. You get cocky and don’t listen ………..it happens. This is why I thought we needed a loss. We just haven’t killed teams for the most part and we have the talent to do it. They needed to experience being out of luck. That happened last night. I think it will make them more focused. Plus the whole undefeated thing………I don’t think it will ever happen in my lifetime to any team. There is just too much parity. Plus we play eight more games then they did back in the 70’s. Its just not going to happen again. You look at the best teams to ever exist, Fab Five, Kentucky 96, North Carolina 09, if they couldn’t do it then I don’t think it will ever happen. Its a great accomplishment but unrealistic..
I'm a believer in the "good" loss.
As tenken pointed out, 18 and 19 yr olds don’t really have that reality button until reality literally smacks them in the face.
Because we lost by being outplayed, rather than having one or two “unlucky” shots not fall, I especially think this will be a learning experience for the Cats, and they’ll come back from it quite nicely.
Also – the assumption on here has seemed to be unanimous that we will lose the #1 ranking when the next poll comes out. What happens if we stomp Vandy, and the rest of the top 5 also loses (unlikely, but so was this whole season so far :-)? Is there a chance of retaining the #1?
Finally, I’ve been lurking on here a long time before I finally registered last night. Ya’ll are some of the most knowledgeable and POLITE commenters that I’ve ever had the pleasure to read. And thanks for providing a treasure trove of UK info for those of us who live outside of Cats country.
stuck in the middle of the college basketball wasteland....
Face it.....
South Carolina basically had their back to the wall last night. They can’t afford to lose home games if they have any shot at an NCAA bid. Their RPI goes up with a “signature” win over the Cats. You got to know the rest of the SEC will have the same mindset. We’ll have to deal with it.
That was Cal's point in the post-game press conf.
every team is now gunning for us with both barrels….no more time for fancy aerial assaults, no more time for Sports Illustrated dunks……even Cuz said it….they have to come out and play every game like they are all the same….treat them all like they are huge games, and they are not doing that.
Cal also pointed out about Patrick only being a part of the problem…and that they still had chances to win even with him having an “off” game……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
We will be okay
UK is still a very good team and maybe the best team, we will have to wait until March and April to find that out.
Yes, South Carolina played well, had a good game plan, and played harder then we did, but I feel UK was their own worst enemy. I read a stat that UK missed 23 shots inside of 3 feet – that is a lot of bad luck and bad bounces. Bledsoe, Wall, and Dodson each missed an uncontested lay-up/dunk, that is 6 points (we lost by 6). UK did not hit the boards the way they usually do. Patterson disappeared, Miller disappeared, and with all that, UK still only lost by 6 in a hostile environment to team that had a player throwing up shots that went in.
UK will learn from this. Wall will learn to assert himself early in games. Cousins is a man among boys, and if he plays like this the rest of the season, look out. Dodson needs to learn shot selection. Patterson needs to takes shots. Cal needs to get Patterson on the block, as he is great with his back to the goal. Cousins and Patterson can be a force, and I beleive this game will wake-up Patterson. Bledsoe needs to learn to play smarter, and he will, and Miller needs to realize he is a good ball player. I thougt Liggins played well, Harris was okay, and Orton was okay.
UK had a bad night at the wrong time. They will learn from this game. Most of our team are freshman, and kids often have to learn the hard way. I have a feeling practice will be intense. If everyone learns what they need to learn from this game, the rest of the basketball world should watch out.
It was just one loss and UK will rebound, and I think we will see that come Saturday.
I just wanted to say I love this sight. I read it everyday, but have not posted since last season. Keep up the great work.
Lane
Lowlifes sending Patrick hate messages dont do anything but perpetuate the
“myth” that is the Kentucky fan……just what we need are more idiots in this world….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Learning a lesson from a loss is all well and good...
…but somebody has to pay for this loss.
And that somebody is Vanderbilt.
I really like Vandy
I cheer for them all the time; except when they play us.
I hate that it has to be them.
But it does.
I think I agree with this
In the end, I think South Carolina just wanted this game more than Kentucky did, and yes, that concerns me a little.
Somewhat hard to believe since our guys were defending a No. 1 ranking that they had wanted so much.
I think the team probably thought the same thing I did when we got up by 7 in the first half: “OK, it is only a matter of time now…” So in the end, if a guy my age can get a little complacent, then maybe it is understandable for a group of kids.
And I will say that any grown adult that sends wacked out messages to a teenager has got some major problems.
by Sonic on Jan 27, 2010 4:34 PM EST reply actions
At the beginning of the season
I wrote some things down to keep me straight on this team during the season. Things like ‘nobody goes undefeated’ (never really thinking we would go 19-0 to start) and ’we’re going to lose at least one we should never lose’. I hope that was last night. I also figured at least 4 losses, due to league coaching and player experience.Having said that, it was indeed a perfectly executed game plan by a coach that has yet to lose to UK.
These freshmen needed to finally realize this is not AAU or HS. As for the idiots blasting PPat on Facebook, that’s why I left ‘other sites’ and bookmarked ASOB.
Ridiculously Depressed.
Yes, im going to be depressed this whole week until saturday. This sucks and u never want to see your team lose. But as cliche as it is, i believe that this loss will do them good. Look we’re 19-1 and well probably still be in the top 5, with a win, come Monday. Now we know that we have to put teams away early and have to give consistent effort across the board. Im looking forward to Vandy team to see how this team responds. Honestly, I believe they will be more motivated than ever. Beating vandy, a top 25 team and perennial pain in the butt, would sort of offset this loss. I’m happy to see everyone at ASOB so levelheaded and calm about this. Also PPat needs to assert himself, but hes an all american and one the best to suit up for the cats, he’ll figure it out by himself.
I see one thing out of the way
Now the team can focus on winning 20 more which includes winning their last one in April. They are talented enough and getting more experienced every day. GO BIG BLUE!!!
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jan 27, 2010 5:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
AND.....
Lay off PPat. Any one ever have a bad day ? I have had plenty. Now if someone wants to discuss this further meet me behind the swingset after school and we will discuss it there. ;-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jan 27, 2010 6:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right on! That’s what I like to hear
by hummer11092 on Jan 27, 2010 6:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rebounding
Tru, I’ll take issue with one of your conclusions – while UK did a good job at defending shots, their repeated inability to end the possession by grabbing a defensive rebound mars their defensive effort. Fortunately, this was a fluke and not a sign of things to come – UK has been good on the boards (at both ends) all year and that’s not likely to suddenly change.
Other than that I pretty much agree. The turnovers have been improving since conference play began and I’m not overly concerned about them from this game. The shooting was bad and SC had a lot to do with that, but UK had several shots they ordinarily hit and tonight was just one of those nights.
One odd thing: At the 7 minute mark of the first half Cousins had 7 rebounds. At halftime he had 9. At the end of the game he had 12. What happened?
3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.
JL, you are exactly right on the inability to rebound DD (and others')
missed shots. My personal conclusion is that it was because too many people were reacting to Downey as he penetrated rather than letting one big pick him up (with the attendant risk of giving up baskets) and the others positioning for rebounds. Way too many times, our guys were on the way down or simply not blocking out when the rebound happened. Face it, with 9-29 shooting, Downey presented lots of rebounds. The problem was that his teammates got way too many of them.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
That's right.
I pretty much said the same thing when talking about offensive rebounding.
OR and and opponent DR are necessarily directly and inversely related. To put it one way, we got beat on the offensive glass. To put it another, we failed to end opponent possessions by getting the DR.
I don’t really know about Cousins, maybe he got tired or maybe we started sending them to the line a lot.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I hope this proves to be a good thing.
I saw Wall, Bledso and Dodson trying to “hotdog” it and it hurt the team. Going for the style points may have caused UK to lose.
I do not agree that USC played a great game. I think they played ok but UK was just awful when it counted. I do not think coach Horn planned on his team shooting 34% and only making 4 three pointers. You cannot game plan for Dodson getting fancy and missing an open dunk or Wall trying for style points and allowing himself to get blocked on an easy layup. UK’ screwups were a result of poor execution and childish decisions and were certainly not a result of USC’s defense.
This concerns me because UK did not lose because USC played and incredible game. UK lost a game when the other team shot very VERY poorly, made poor decision but were still able to beat UK.. what happens when UK plays poorly and the other team actually plays well? It will be a lot worse than a 6 point loss.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 6:23 PM EST reply actions
How did USC play defensively ...
… holding us under 45% eFG?
Hardly anyone has done that to us. So yeah, while our defense was darn good, theirs was good also.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Cannot agree
UK missed many layups… 4 of which were gimmies. UK turned the ball over way too many times in the last five minutes, and not because of good USC defense, but because of boneheaded UK plays. Sure they beat us fair and square, the better team lost today but NO WAY was it because USC put on a stellar performance… UK stunk it up.
I think the realty is that the majority of UK fans realize the UK lost to a team that played poorly.. this is scary. If UK can lose to a very average team when that team plays poorly, it means this UK team has a long way to go to be considered one of the elite.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Both teams missed shots.
That’s just an excuse. We should acknowledge when we were outplayed.
If we stunk it up, it’s because our team was not up to the challenge. That’s a fact. The rest is excuse-making.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Excuses, facts.. blah blah blah
What we do know is that UK played poorly and lost to a very average team that played poorly as well.
If by outplayed you are implying USC outscored UK then yes, UK was outplayed. I acknowledge the fact USC scored more points. I will guarantee you that 100% of the time that UK loses this year it will be because the other team scores more points.
We hear it so many times that “we beat ourselves”. Last night was a classic example of that. It would be dishonest to suggest that UK did not dig its own grave last night. The majority of UK fans agree with that and I am sure you do as well. I understand why many do not want to admit it; it is admitting a grave flaw in our beloved Wildcats and it is a flaw that that can cost them a trip to the Final Four. If UK can lose to USC in the manner in which they did, then UK can lose in the second round of the dance.
Lastly, we all saw what happened. UK missed numerous uncontested shots, easy shots, shots the defender had little influence on. USC did not miss those type of shots, they missed wild shots, poor shot selection, contested shots. So to say that both teams shot poorly to imply I am simple excusemaking just doesn’t cut it.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Tru
USC out rebounding us is not “beating ourselves.” It is getting it taken to you by the other team. You can point to turnovers, non calls, missed shots, etc……but rebounding lost this game for UK.
Sometimes, the other team just plays better.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
but they didn't and it's
stunning to me that I keep seeing that. SC is a average at best team. They could play us 1000 games and NEVER “beat” us unless we give them the game and that’s what we did.
You can't fix "stupid"!
So Downey abusing every guy UK threw at him is "giving away" the game?
Downey missed 20 shots, and USC got 16 offensive rebounds. Why? Because as soon as Downey blew by Bledsoe, Miller, etc. Cousins and Patterson had to help…..and USC grabbed a ton of rebounds.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
i wouldnt go that far and say never in a 1000
but you are right, UK lost the game more than USC won it.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oh come on...
USC pulled down 1 more rebound than UK and that qualifies for the other team “taking it to you?” That just doesn’t make any sense at all.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
When UK should have out rebounded them by 20?
I would say so…..
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
look I'm not in anyway trying to take
anything away from SC and they obviously played their hearts out and Downey was incredible. That said….when you have an imbound play and you KNOW where the ball is going and still can’t come close to stopping it….well that’s pathetic.
We can argue semantics all week long until the Vandy game but I don’t think any can deny that UK should have won that game by 20+. The fact they didn’t in my opinion is more to do with the way they continue to play against average to below average teams….SC had lost 3 games in a row for God’s sake.
You can't fix "stupid"!
well..
i really do not know how to respond to that.. should of by 20 you say??? uhm…
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
What you both need to do ...
… is stop with the lack of respect toward our opponents. Yes, Kentucky didn’t bring their “A” game, but that is who we are, just as the drubbing of Arkansas is who we are.
Nobody is arguing that South Carolina is a better team than Kentucky overall, but they were the better team Tuesday night, and that is a fact. Bemoaning things like missed layups and such is sour grapes.
South Carolina beat us fair and square. The rebound margin comment, whoever made it, is utterly misguided — that statistic is completely meaningless.
The Gamecocks executed a better gameplan than Kentucky did, and Kentucky did not take the game seriously enough from the start. They were not ready to play. South Carolina was, and they took the game from us.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well that is simply your opinion
and I do not agree with it. I will have my own opinion of each opponent and certainly will not just repeat yours or anyone elses.
Stating what actually happened is not sour grapes it is legitimate commentary. Calling someone elses opinion and view of the game sour grapes just because you do not agree is rather lame.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 28, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
rebounds are hustle plays..
If you are getting outrebounded , you are either getting outhustled by someone beating you to a spot and getting position, or you are getting out hustled because the other guy just wants it more. Either way, the diagnosis is that effort will have a great team win , even on a bad night. I felt like we had an un-even effort, with CUZ being one of the few guys who hustled hard, never gave up, and fought for the end. I never really liked him until now, but now, he is the guy you want in the foxhole next to you when the chips are down. If a few other guys do that with him every game, we are looking good.
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
Yep....totally agree!!
Course someone pointed out earlier that he had 8 rebounds or so about 10 minutes into the game and ended up with 12 I believe. That said he was still busting his but in my view until the end…..remember him almost stealing the ball from Downey there toward the end?
You can't fix "stupid"!
Huh?
I think most people understand why Kentucky lost this game, and are placing the blame squarely where it belongs — on the other team.
If most do then I guess that puts me squarely in the minority. With due respect Tru….don’t think I’ve ever seen a statement on this site that I’ve disagreed with more!!
South Carolina beat us? A team that’s lost 3 straight with their super star hitting a great 9/29?? A team with Downey and 4 guys 95% of UK fans couldn’t name if their life depended on it beat a team with a first team All American, probably 3 lottery NBA picks and maybe 4? South Carolina couldn’t beat that team if they played every day for 5 years.
This UK team on the other hand can play down to their competition level as well as any team in college basketball history. They LOST that game by not rebounding, by not running any kind of recognizable offense, by dribbling into trouble and rushing shots. They hustled……think everyone of them was on the floor at some point but they should have beat that team by 20+ with Downey scoring 40.
Cal said it after the game……they think they’re invincible and somehow they’re going to pull it out in the last minute of the game. Well Wall proved he’s human and Cousins proved he can’t do everything.
So many on this site just seem to be giddy that we’re “back” but unless this team gets it’s head on straight…..this is going to be one of the most talented teams in NCAA basketball history and go down in flames in the one and done tournament to another team that we should have beat by 20. Hope I’m wrong but this team might takes it’s place along with the other storied nickname teams as the “Heartbreakers”.
You can't fix "stupid"!
That is the problem with freshman.
PP has to be the leader of this team. The guards have to get him involved more. People act like he disappeared last night but he had 8 rebounds(5 offensive) and 2 blocks but only 4 shots Wall had zero assist in the first half. Having PP play the perimeter constantly is not working. UK is no more of a dribble drive team than anybody else is with a good point guard. Downey had a bad shooting night but still educated Wall and Bledsoe. The snicker on Bledsoe’s face at the beginning of the game on the early foul against SC told me he is getting cocky. He got cocked last night and this team is going to lose a few games until they are ready to bring it and quit thinking their talent alone is going to win.
I said on an earlier post that PP should
have a little man to man talk with them. If we go inside out….no one should ever beat this team.
You can't fix "stupid"!
I agree.
But will he?
Or why doesn’t he have a meeting with the coach? Make a few demands for the good of the team. He has earned that… and more.
Freshmen should not have to be in the position of pushing an upper classman into the spotlight. There should be no ambiguity. You think Rajon ever has to go to Paul Pierce and say, “So Paul… do you want the ball?” Rajon knows that if he doesn’t get Paul the ball he will have to fight him in the parking garage after the game.
He is also just as sure that in Paul’s hands is a great place to get ball with the game on the line.
Coincidence?
by Sonic on Jan 27, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
I love PPat, but,
he did not bring it last night either. You point at the eight rebounds and I say that he had 5 points and 5 boards with three minutes to go. Those are not the stats of an all-american. You can blame the guards for not getting him the ball, but if PPat is with it, he will get six to eight points on the offensive glass alone. Heck, as good a game as Cousins played, he only had two boards in the second half. Our guys did not block out and they did not hustle. That is why they lost.
ppat shocked me
hearing him in pregame interviews, I really thought he wanted to get usc back for the embarrassing kentucky last year. But he really didn’t bring it.
South Carolina held us to under 45% eFG% and beat us on the glass.
So yes, they did beat us. Spin it any way that makes you happy, but reality is reality. They wanted it more and they beat us fair and square.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well frankly there's no way to spin this that should
make any UK fan happy. A good loss? Anyone who’s played team sports knows there’s no such thing.
Maybe we’re arguing sematics but Duke BEAT UK in 1992. 2 teams played their best and the best team WON. I have no problem with UK loosing last night or Saturday against Vandy if they play their best and a better team beats them.
From my point of view SC didn’t “hold” us under 45%….we did that ourselves. SC wasn’t playing a smothering defense, we were playing terrible offense. SC didn’t out rebound us…we just didn’t box out and the tallest team in D1 didn’t want the ball as bad as they did.
If I’m racing Jeff Gordon and he pulls into the pit to sign an autograph and I cross the finish line first…..did I beat him or did he beat himself?
I’ve watched most of the top 20 play this year and have yet to see a team as talented as UK is this year. No one has the depth and no one has a back court and front court combination as good as ours. We shouldn’t be “beat” by anyone but as I said earlier, this team shows a stunning ability to play to the level of it’s competition or below. To paraphrase a famous quote….we have met the enemy and he is us…….only UK can beat UK this year.
You can't fix "stupid"!
I agree ...
… that there are no good losses. And I didn’t say there were.
No team plays well all the time. We have found ways to win playing poorly. South Carolina didn’t allow us to do that.
They took the game from us. That is reality.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
sorry...didn't mean to imply you
said that….several others have however. The 96 and 98 Champion teams both had “bad” games with both loosing to UofL for instance. The huge difference I see and apparently Cal sees…. that many of the “kool aid” drinkers just don’t seem to get…. is that with those teams, bad game were an aberration. With this team it’s just normal.
Does anyone listen to Cal after the games or do they just ignore what he’s saying cause they’re soooooo giddy that we’ve won 19 games? He knows this team isn’t playing to their potential and in my mind, he’s deadly serious about the 10-8 or whatever he’s currently using.
Not going to argue/discuss anymore because we obviously are seeing different things or maybe have different expectations. I see this teams depth and talent and know they should win a Championship. Maybe others are just happy to be relevant again.
You can't fix "stupid"!
You watched a different game.
With a few minutes left > missing a layup, walking, a missed dunk and turning the ball over on poorly executed passes is the other team “taking the game away?” Surely you are not serious. USC’s defense had very very little impact on any of that.
UK didn’t allow Uk to win and that is the reality.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
No, I didn't.
Both you two are wrong, and you have no idea why. But I’m going to explain it to you both.
1. Nobody is arguing that Kentucky is not a better team than South Carolina. They undoubtedly are. But the Gamecocks were better Tuesday night. They were more focused, they got more offensive rebounds despite their much smaller size, they blocked EIGHT SHOTS despite a massive size discrepancy.
2. Kentucky had plenty of opportunity to win in the end, but South Carolina denied them by making plays. UK only blew one layup late in the game. South Carolina blocked two UK shots in the last five minutes and stole the ball from UK twice. Those are active plays on the part of the Gamecocks that denied UK the opportunity to win.
3. UK could not stop Devan Downey in the last few minutes from doing what he wanted, and South Carolina expanded their margin through a combination of good defense, denying UK the basketball for long stretches by maintaining possession, solid defensive rebounding, and making their foul shots — which UK did not.
There is no doubt that USC won this game. UK lost because they didn’t play well enough. That means, by the simple process of elimination, that the Gamecocks were the better team Tuesday night. They did it with teamwork and intelligence by utilizing the small number of advantages they had to their best possible effect.
They had a specific gameplan that was markedly different than the way they played throughout the year, by design. Kentucky did not adjust to it. We did not lose by fluke, and we didn’t lose by giving the ball away — our turnover percentage was consistent with what it has been all year.
So let’s dispense with this suggestion that UK gave the game away. It is unseemly, it disrespects our fair opponents, and it makes us look like rotten sportsmen and sportswomen.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Can't speak for the other writer but frankly I don't
appreciate your condescending attitude. This is your blog and we’re just vistors and I appreciate that but just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you have the right to suggest that I’m a “rotten sportsmen”.
If you actually took the time to think about the points I’ve been trying to make instead of automatically dismissing other points of view because they aren’t yours, you might not have written that.
Nothing in what I’ve written in any way dismisses SC or tries to take away from the effort they put out. I’ve simply tried to make the point that we have a much better deeper team and if we played like we should, they could play out of their minds and still shouldn’t be close to this UK team.
Beginning with David and Goliath history is replete with examples of people accomplishing things that on paper they shouldn’t in the face of their opponenent strengths or abilities. As a former Navy man you know the Midway story and how the war with Japan pivoted on the sacrifice of several naval squadrons and some brilliant code breakers allowing a historic victory that allowed an understrength American force to defeat a much stronger opponent. So please don’t lecture me on respecting an opponent and their effort.
All that said….Nagumo should have defeated Spruance if he’d conducted his forces properly and that’s the point I’ve tried to make about this game. If UK had played the game they’re capable of, Downey could have scored 40 and UK would have won.
SC won that game just like America defeated Japan at Midway and the results speak for themselves. You feel SC won and I feel UK lost….semantics maybe but the result is the same.
You can't fix "stupid"!
The sacrifice of torpedo 8 at Midway..
Was totally unplanned, but it did result in the Dive Bombers catching a serious break that led to our victory..in the same vein,with these young players, I believe we will make noise in the tournament; but to win it all, we are going to have to catch a break on that magnitude.
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
another history buff!!:-)
yep….poor torpedo planes pull the Zeros down and allow the dive bombers a relatively clear bomb run….the rest as they say is history!!
Almost EVERY team that wins the NCAA has a game or play that turns things no matter how good they are. Look at UK in 98 down to Duke and unknown (to them) Cameron Mills goes off. You’re right, almost every team needs a break but if this team plays like they’re capable….it shouldn’t NEED to be much of a break.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Come from a Miltary background.
My Grandfather was commisioned in 1940 as a Naval Aviator, and Flew a procession of Aircraft throughout the Pacific War, and other conflicts that includes: Brewster Buffalo. Grumman Wildcat, Corsair, F2h Banshee,F4d Skyray, F8 Crusader, then a desk. I am a retired Paratrooper myself;(sep 2006 ;due to stop-loss,I would still be serving after over 20 years and almost every conflict since Grenada,but was able to finally get out,thanks to a local Senator for helping me!)
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
wow....props all the way
through jets….your Grandfather was one of the “great” generation!!!
Never served but appreciate your service and all the other vets that allow us to argue over something as silly as a B-ball game!!!
You can't fix "stupid"!
Thanks!
That’s the America I love! Enlightened Debate is an effective way to open up minds, as well as find solutions to problems by entertaining all view-points; unfortunately, I don’t think Cal is listening to us!!!!! Ha HA..Oldcat69’ seemed to have some points for him!
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
you guys arent going to hug and get all teary eyed are you???
lol…..this is the one site where that type of thing might actually happen……we LOVE being “enlightened fans”…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
abc....it's hard to read anything you
write and not smile. You’re definitely the designated sense of humor on this site!!;-)
You can't fix "stupid"!
The wife thought she would make me look bad by telling me I had to wear a
“dunce” hat to bed……I fixed her, I figured out something to do with it!!!
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
UK fans..
Are without a doubt the best students of the game I have seen as far as the NCAA level. We see every blown call,every bad decision, every dirty play, etc….
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
we forget sometimes..
That these are young men on a learning curve; even the stars like Wall.
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
everyone has become so jaded about
all walks of life….my uncle said Saturday during the Arkansas game, “that’s what we pay you boys for”….now I know it was a joke, but the joke was rooted in public perception….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
The saying when I was a kid was..
UCLA had the best players money could buy!
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
I didn't suggest ...
… that you, or anyone else was a rotten sports fan. I indicated that claims on the order of “South Carolina didn’t win this game, UK lost it” is exactly the kind of thing rotten sports fans say when the facts clearly don’t support it.
My entire point was, and still is, that some people, including you, have failed to give South Carolina proper credit. Even if Kentucky’s game plan had been executed as well as could be reasonably expected, it does not follow that Kentucky would have won the game. South Carolina could have simply executed theirs better.
I have not “automatically dismissing other points of view” — that is not a fair reading of my comments. I am objecting to the assertion that UK lost the game because of their poor play, not because of the Gamecock’s good play. That assertion is demonstrably false. You said a couple of posts above:
From my point of view SC didn’t "hold" us under 45%….we did that ourselves.
I just demonstrated, by indicating the number of blocks that the Gamecocks had that this assertion isn’t really defensible. If UK had missed a bunch of open jump shots, I would have agreed with you, but that simply was not the case. Carolina challenged everything, and the number of blocks should be adequate proof for anyone of that fact.
I reject the implication that UK lost this game because they played badly. Their play, overall, was consistent with what we have seen from this team, on average, all year. I would agree with you that UK did not play to their potential, but that isn’t the same thing as saying that UK shot bad and lost. They shot bad because the Gamecocks made us shoot bad. They lost because the Gamecocks defended Kentucky well, and executed their game plan better that Kentucky did.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 28, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Dont tell that to Dodson.....because if anyone was near him when he missed that
layup, they had to have been a ghost……lol……
Not belaboring the point here Tru, but we missed WAY too many open looks, layups, and opportunities. Now, if you want to attribute that to SC then that’s fine. They hustled and played their very best game of the year against us.
But I have to disagree that they forced the bad game out of us…..we defended one man poorly, and looked light a group of deer in the headlights of an oncoming semi offensively and defensively for a lot of the night, with the exception of Mr. Cousins….and after his play, I suggest everyone start calling him Mr. Cousins…..he’s earned it.
I dont feel as though the two viewpoints cannot co-exist. They did everything they could do right. We did a lot of what we can do wrong.
What excites me is the fact that we can play that badly and still have a chance to win in the last minute or two.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
I'm sorry, but we didn't miss that many good looks.
Go back and watch the game again. We missed a couple of layups, one by Bledsoe and one by Dodson. There was also a challenged layup that Wall missed, but that was a challenged shot.
When a team that is smaller than you blocks eight of your shots, that tells me all I need to know when it comes to shooting. We missed because they challenged or swatted most of the shots we took.
We didn’t play with the intensity needed to improve our looks, and took a lot of bad shots. That happens when a team is in your face the whole time, and that’s what happened. Kentucky was challenged physically by the Gamecocks and largely responded with timidity, taking bad shots and trying to force plays that weren’t there in order to try to get a clean look. That’s a credit to the defense, not a knock on the offense.
Anytime you play a team and lose, you can always say that you didn’t play well. The problem is, this was an obvious case of a team having a better plan that they executed better, and they physically dominated Kentucky at many points in the game, and UK did not respond. You can call that bad play by UK, but that is, in my opinion, unfair to the Gamecocks, since they forced us into it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Gosh....I feel like I've had this
same arguement with my wife once or twice (or 50) over the years!;-) I say pataaaaaato…you say potato.
As Bozich pointed out today…..SC’s lost 7 of their last 12 games….UK was 19-0. SC ranks 249th in rebound margin….UK is first. SC’s been outrebounded in 3 straight games….UK’s outrebounded their opponent in 3 straight games. Our point guard is projected as the #1 pick….theirs has tried to go Pro twice without any interest.
Yet……they out rebound UK, their point guard scores more than all our guards put together and they win the game. I guess the list of teams that have beat SC are just better than we are cause there’s sooooo many to choose from.
You said………“My entire point was, and still is, that some people, including you, have failed to give South Carolina proper credit.”……….I don’t know how many times I’ve given credit to SC and Downey for playing their hearts out but if you go back…..several.
I still don’t think they beat us any more than I think New Orleans beat Minnesota. Minnesota screwed up once too often and so did we. That doesn’t minimize what SC or New Orleans did…..that’s just a point of view.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Really?
Then what can this mean:
They could play us 1000 games and NEVER "beat" us unless we give them the game and that’s what we did.
Boy, that’s giving them all kinds of credit right there, yes sir. Credit galore. Tons. Megatons. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
see what I said above......
we’ve practically got an NBA team at least in some folks view and yes they’re young but they’ve probably played better AAU teams than SC.
SC played a great game….how can I say it more clearly? Them playing their best against UK shouldn’t matter….it’s just a fact. I play golf….. if I play Tiger Woods 1000 times and he plays like he’s capable I could never beat him if my life depended on it……why is that concept so hard to understand? The ONLY way I could “beat” him is if he had an off day and that’s what happened to UK.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Well ...
… suppose you had a really great day and he had an average day. You could beat him then, too.
Winning doesn’t always depend on your opponent playing poorly.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
lol...no of course not but
in my case and Tiger’s that is exactly what would HAVE to happen in order for me to beat him.
I guess in my mind UK had a below average game and I think you’ll agree….the UK that played Arkansas would have earily beat SC playing the EXACT same game.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Now, you're in my ballpark. Trust me, none of us ever
had a “really good day” that would beat Tiger’s average day, except StillCatWoman’s husband. You cannot imagine how good the top-line players are. Watching them from outside the ropes doesn’t give a sliver insight into their skill levels. Comparing your personal stats (FIR, GIR, Scrambling, Sand Saves, etc) doesn’t mean a thing because of the courses they play. I will emphatically state that “you could beat him then, too”, when applied to the golf analogy, is categorically wrong if Tiger had an average day. UK didn’t have an average day, and your stats correctly indicate that.
Your second statement is, of course, correct, but it depends on the difference in levels of talent/skill. Tell me that you believe UK could, simply by playing well, beat a team of LeBron, Kobe, Michael, Kareem, and, say, Karl Malone (all playing at their peak levels), with Jerry West, Magic, Bill Russell, and Cousy coming off the bench without bad play on the part of the NBA legends, and I’ll agree with you. If you won’t tell me that, then I won’t agree with your statement as a blanket statement.
My assessment: USC played well, except for their shooting percentage; UK played poorly, in addition to their shooting percentage. We lost.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
we missed enough good looks to lose......
we also gave up enough rebounds to lose as well….and 2nd chance points(which would have come from the rebounds)…..
I take a little umbrage with the being “outcoached” comment as well…..I think Cal gave them all they needed to win…..they just didnt play well enough to do it….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
oh yeah.....
agree completely!!! Cal outcoached?? Guess he caused Dodson to miss that bunny or pulled a magician act and made Miller and PP disappear
You can't fix "stupid"!
Well ...
… Perhaps those halftime adjustments made all the difference.
Oh, wait …
Even Calipari says he was outcoached. It was obvious. It happens. It doesn’t mean we should fire the guy, but we should give credit where it is due.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
We almost always miss enough good looks to lose.
The difference is, we usually find a way to overcome it — mainly by getting the ball in better scoring position.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
or by the rebounding and second chance points????.....
which I believe we were leading the SEC in
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
I am
not sure how to read this…….so you are saying that Kentucky wasn’t capable of winning this game because SC played so well? Are you saying that we didn’t make the mistakes that cost us the game? I am probably reading that wrong but just wanted to make sure.
Are you asking me or Tru?
If it’s me…..I feel it’s all on the #1 team and and although SC played a heck of a game….if the #1 team had played like the #1 should, it wouldn’t have been a close game let alone a loss.
Just my opinion.
You can't fix "stupid"!
Nope.
I am saying they beat us because they outplayed us, and that’s all there is to it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
OKAY, boys, now that the testosterone
has been splashed all over the landscape, and both of you are trying to get your breath back, let me (try to) mediate this.
I’ve read your discussion, and I feel very strongly both ways. (How’s that for a conciliatory statement?) It’s possible that you both are right and wrong.
First, to deny that SC played an inspired game is folly. They did, period. While they didn’t shoot particularly well, they took every advantage of the chances they got. And they simply out-hustled UK on their own boards, resulting in a big number of put-back points.
On the other hand, UK cooperated in its own demise by not playing up to its potential, or even to the somewhat lower level at which they’ve operated for much of the season. Not to be disagreeable, Tru, but in my review of the game, I counted at least six put-back or “crip” shots that we missed, not just the two toward the end of the game.
On the influence of the coaches, let’s not give them too much credit or blame (see my quote from Uncle Adolph later). I cringe every time a commentator says, Coach XXX really was smart to have them get that ball to YYY in the corner, ’cause he shoots well from there (or some equally inane statement).
Most of the time, YYY got the ball in the corner because that’s where the defense let him get it. Coaches have a high degree of responsibility for system, overall game play, and a significant number of changes during the game that affect things, but, except for in-bounds plays, etc., rarely does a specific play in the course of a game reflect a conscious decision on the part of the coach. It reflects how the players are trained and what the game brings them.
In the immortal words of Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?” Dang, I’ll be glad when Saturday afternoon comes so we can quit sniping at each other about a loss. It happens. This team was never going to go undefeated. Let’s get on with the rest of the season.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Heh.
I agree with the vast majority of your excellent attempt at peacemaking, but we will have to disagree about the number of “crip” shots UK missed. Some of them were challenged strongly, and that’s different from a short shot where you were either unopposed or not well defended.
In addition, I have to insist that Calipari did not adjust well to what the Gamecocks were doing. Now, that claim is a lot more subjective than the other ones, where there is objective evidence. Just because I think Calipari got out-coached does not make it so, but there is no doubt that USC outplayed us – that’s statistically irrefutable.
There is also no doubt that UK underperformed their average. The thing is, where they underperformed was largely informed by South Carolina’s greater intensity and determination.
But I have not and would not say that UK performed to their ability. That is also an objective fact. But teams, especially this one, have often played below their ability and won games, sometimes easily. In this case, we played poorly more because of what South Carolina did, rather than what UK did not do.
The reason for my vehemence on this subject is because failing to give an opponent proper credit is a real pet peave of mine. I remember once making comments similar to “We lost because we sucked” when the truth was, we lost because we were simply outperformed. After I reviewed the stats where the truth was revealed to me, I was embarrassed for being a bad sportsman. This is my way of trying to convince others not to do the same thing.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
geez Tru.....the guy was just trying to give everyone an out.....
lol…..I just wish I always got the Truth revealed to me in stats……unfortunately in reality, the results do not always bear out the stats…..and it is not necessarily being a bad sport to recognize your own failures……no one said SC didnt play a great game……but I will say this……SC’s potential version of a great game, when compared to the Cats’ potential version of a great game do not even come close.
That has no bearing on what happened Tuesday, but it is a fact the would be justified if someone only reviewed “stats”. I think you are tilting at windmills here. Old Cat is right….there are a lot of things that SC did great and we did poorly……so we lost. And in the end, that is the only stat that anyone will care about .
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
I don't need an "out."
The truth is never revealed to those who don’t look for it. :-)
Seek, and you will find, grasshopper.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
you know Tru, I was a fan long before
any politician invented the internet. I didnt have non stop access to stats and facts and figures. I just loved to watch the game be played. And I got pretty good at analyzing who was having a good game and who wasnt just by watching with my own eyes. I watched the same game that everyone else did, and I am not sure what all everyone else saw, but I saw a team that with the exception of one guy, didnt have their heads in it. Now you say that is because SC played better than us, and I do not disagree. I say that we did not play up to our potential, and on that you do not disagree. Sounds to me like the rest is left to interpretation……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Thank God.
You agree. I’m going to bed. Thanks, ABC.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
simple.....use a 9 iron.....
swing through the window of the automobile as he is driving away….force him “into the woods”…..lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
My friends, that's the only way
any of us are going to beat him, but for UKlvrJM, here’s the solution:
Start when you’re two years old, spend all your spare time practicing and playing golf. Don’t let yourself get emotionally involved with anyone or anything other than yourself and your game.
Get yourself in better shape than anyone else who’s played the game. Keep the world at arm’s length, to include your family.
Hit 700-1000 balls a day, and focus on every one of them. Spend at least as much time on your short game as you do on your swing. Discipline your mind to believe that you can accomplish anything when you have a club, especially a putter, in your hand.
Oh, yeah, abandon all moral principles and focus only on yourself and your own gratification. Then, you can be like Tiger Woods. It’s simple.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
I respect that. And like most arguments,
this one has more than one side. I don’t argue that we made good adjustments, but, in reality, we don’t know for sure if it was the coach’s decision or just the players not following what he asked them to do.
If I have time tomorrow night (am watching a good VA-VaTech game now-I’ll try to back up my assertion about crips with time/person cites. BTW, I don’t discount the effect of defensive pressure, but I seem to recall a lot of misses where the pressure was minimal. I attribute that to a lack of focus. And perhaps overconfidence.
Here’s one stat with which all three of you can agree: USC scored more points than we did. Here’s an observation that you should agree with: neither team shot particularly well. Here’s another: USC out-hustled UK on the boards (how else does a shorter team that’s not as athletically-talented out-rebound their opponents?) And another: despite shooting a low percentage, Downey was the key to the USC win with his penetration, attraction of more than one defender, and the two incredible off-balance shots he made in the second half.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
All fair points.
We can never really know what percentage of execution/coaching was the difference. Again, that is my subjective analysis, and is certainly not a fact. I base it mostly on the fact that South Carolina executed a gameplan that was different from what they normally do.
And yes, no doubt that USC won the only stat that mattered, and neither team played particularly well offensively. I would suggest, though, that both UK and USC played very good defensive games. I recall being very excited about Kentucky’s defense at halftime.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I recall that, too. And I was impressed with
UK’s defense EXCEPT for the observable fact that too many times, Downey attracted two or three of our big men on his penetrations, leaving no one to block out and rebound. That is an adjustment that the coach could/should have made, but, given the relexive nature of playing defense, I question whether it would have been executed.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Yeah ...
… that’s a good point. That did happen, and it shouldn’t have.
I think UK had that problem last year, too. We kept complaining about Stevenson leaving his man for the block, often resulting in bad things.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Yeah, I had forgotten about Perry, but
you’re exactly right. We did, and it was wrong then, and it was wrong Tuesday night.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
then you're picking on the wrong guy
cause I’ve said from the get go that SC played a great game. I challenge you to find where I said something differently.
We can give them all the credit in the world for the game they played and still recognize that UK didn’t play a good game….it’s that simple. Just like I feel Minnesota played a better game than New Orleans but they made too many mistakes to beat a good New Orleans team.
You can't fix "stupid"!
lol......arguing about this sure
beats the heck out of talking about poor Michael trying his best at point guard last year doesn’t it?
You can't fix "stupid"!
Yep, it does, and, to agree with you,
if either of our guards had tried as hard for the whole game as Porter did, we’d have had a better chance of winning the game. Not 10% as talented, but he tried all the time.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Right, and to modify your by-line,
“you can’t coach quick”. Reflexes, that’s the big difference between guys who have the “quicks” to play in college and those of us who don’t.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
I agree
we have a much better deeper team and if we played like we should, they could play out of their minds and still shouldn’t be close to this UK team.
IMO – the game should have never been close. I also tend to lean toward the “we beat ourselves” – or at least the “we greatly assisted SC in beating us” – perspective.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Jan 28, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Tru is just wrong
and it seems he is more focused on trying to win an argument than being correct. He is wrong on the facts of the game, the plays that were made or were not made at the end, etc… sometimes it is better to just ignore him.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 28, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
I am not wrong.
You are. And as far as winning the argument, there was never a question about that. When I lose, I admit it. But this one was a slam dunk.
Learn to respect your opponents. It’s the right thing to do.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I respect USC
and I am a big fan of coach Horn. But to say UK was simply outplayed by USC, that USC executed a better game plan is just void of reality. You are wrong, very wrong. It is almost laughable to say USC executed well. They were not orginized, took crazy wild shots, missed more than 2 out of every three shots they took and won only because UK could not make layups and had turnovers that were simple stupid (not the result of defensive pressure by USC).
Now, you can rant all you want with your opinion, but here are the facts: UK missed 9 layups (source UKatheltics.com) and 7 of them in the second half. UK almost missed 2 tip ins. Sorry Tru, you missed this slam dunk worse than Dodson. Maybe the pressure to be right was too much to handle like UK’s pressure to be #1.
Now, the “right thing to do” is admit that you are wrong and I am right.
:) damn I love being right.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 28, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yes you did;
no I didn’t. Yes you did, no I didn’t.
Blah, blah, blah.
Both (all three) of you should let it drop so we can get on with thinking about how tough Vandy is going to be Saturday. Does it do anything other than massage your egos to keep this crap going?
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
by oldcat'69 on Jan 28, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh.
Very funny, and totally inaccurate.
Here are the real facts: UK missed three layups that were unopposed. You’ll have to go to the tape to see that, they don’t record it that way in the stats.
The other six were strongly challenged, and they missed them mostly for that reason.
UK had 22% turnovers. Their season average is 21%. Your argument about turnovers is objectively refuted.
South Carolina blocked eight shots, 14%, despite the fact that UK, on average is 2 inches taller than South Carolina. UK’s opponents block 7.7% on average. Why did you omit that statistic?
South Carolina had 10.3% steals to UK’s 7.4%. That is despite UK having greater depth and more talent at the guard position.
South Carolina had a 43.8% free throw rate. UK’s opponents on average get 31.3%.
South Carolina outrebounded UK on the offensive glass 43.5-36.8%. UK usually enjoys a 42.6-31.8% advantage.
You cited one statistic that is subjective and, in reality misleading. I cited five that are objective facts and tell the real story.
You’re gonna need a cast for that arm that you broke patting yourself needlessly on the back. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
you left out one stat........
POINTS…….last time I checked they scored 8 more than us because we missed too many shots…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
You are correct that they scored more points.
You have also engaged in tautology.
The losing team misses too many shots 100% of the time in every single circumstance. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
and here I thought I was using stats and facts to support my position.....
lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Well ...
… look at it this way. You learned something new. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Of course you did.
You learned what a tautology was.
Or at least, I gave you the opportunity to learn. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
ok.....I give up.....lol....
I have been schooled……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..on tautology.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
You still didn't answer my last question, and I give up.
I tried.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
ughh
yall…….good grief this is enough…….no offense………it DOESN"T MATTER………ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shhhhhhh.......this is the internet version of a
pissing for distance contest…….lol……
it aint over until all the bladders have been emptied!!!!!
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
darn......I missed all this!! Hey what
about that Obama speach last night? What side do you want to argue?;-)
You can't fix "stupid"!
not tonight bubba.....no school here tomorrow and that means the missus
doesnt have to go to sleep early……besides I need consoling for the loss…….no matter WHY it happened
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Now you are almost lying.
Why be dishonest about a basketball game? Geeeez….
“UK had 22% turnovers. Their season average is 21%. Your argument about turnovers is objectively refuted.” My point was UK made a few turnovers late in the game that were a result of sloppy play, not the defensive pressure of USC. You know that is what I said yet you basically lie about my point. Good god it is a basketball game, why resort to distortions and basically lying?
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 29, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
you would not believe the rejoicing in memphis
you would think that we just lost our 10th game in a row to have gotten knocked out of a bid for the ncaa tourney bid…
they just cannot let it go down here…
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jan 27, 2010 6:33 PM EST reply actions
Yeah, well, they had to wait a while to celebrate
Cal’s first UK loss, now, didn’t they, memphis? If this team has guts, they’ll have to wait a while longer to celebrate the next, too.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Yeah oldcat'69
They had to wait a while for our first loss. But I am glad we can share the joy of this team, even in a loss. :-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Yep, I'm with you, lady.
Think about what lay in front of us at this time last year and what lies in front this year. It’s almost enough to make a “glass half empty” guy smile. See? :-))))))
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
My facebook
was lite up with comments about stuff like that. I mean these people hate Kentucky because of Cal and one thing I pointed out to someone was that if he wronged your program so badly then why not be happy he isn’t there any more……..Why the hate for Kentucky……..the answer is because they miss him desperatley
cousins
did demarcus cousins punch a south carolina fan after the game? deadspin.com says:
“And that excited Cocks fan who took two upper cuts from UK’s 6’11” Demarcus Cousins after he rushed the court? That kid got himself on the radio — and a gift card. The kid who was at the opposite end of the punch from UK’s monster was fine with the outcome. “It was worth it.”
is this true? I haven’t seen anything about it anywhere else.
check KSR, it is on there
looks like it was all made up to me
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=42712
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
what a jackass
Please. If demarcus cousins DID punch him, he’d have a few teeth knocked out, bones broken, etc.
What idiot makes this crap up? I think they deserve to get punched for saying such.
NEXT.....
The video shows PPat being shielded from the storming SC fans. He had to walk the length of the court to our bench and that is why he is even in the video, which they use a pointer saying it is Big Cuz. Nothing there.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
Tru, you're right about the offense
What was it? It brought back bad memories of Clyde; throw the ball around the perimeter and then force it down low. PPat was lost in translation; despite having a bad game (nothing wrong with that, happens to everybody), he and whoever played the 3 did not look comfortable with whatever was going on. That and the lack of zone defense really shows how cal got outcoached last night.
I don't think Cal was outcoached..
I mean really, what did USC do that any future oponnent can take from that game and use it against UK? Nothing at all. The players failed to execute, they made silly turnovers and missed easy shots; all that has nothign to do with coaching.
by Shootmeibleedblue on Jan 27, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
The team will learn more from this loss than they would from ANY win.
That’s basically what it all boils down to….to me anyway.
An amplification, if you don't mind..
…but I will be the first to admit that losses have a way of focusing the mind in a way that close victories do not.
Let’s hope you’re right, and that Cal is able to bring that focus to bear before the tournament, where a loss ends it all. Wasn’t it Franklin who said “Nothing focuses a man’s mind more wonderfully than the prospect of the hangman’s noose” ? And that focus should be on teamwork, for to quote the great man again, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. " (so he said at the signing of the Declaration of Independence).
And one more just for fun, completely off-topic: "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. " :)
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
ICQ: 591535544
Yahoo IM: jacksbrain
7 year old white label Beam is proof..
That the Lord watches out for the poor man too..LOL Unfortunatley, you can’t buy it outside of Ky. or a Class Six store on a military base..Anyway it is good lubricant for the game, or Ky River Catfishing!
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
Hooked my California girl on Beam
She used to drink only strawberry daquiris (ran the bar at the Plaza hotel in Vegas out of fresh strawberries one night). I showed her how to drink whiskey, and now she’s a Beam-only gal. Straight with a coke back.
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
ICQ: 591535544
Yahoo IM: jacksbrain
Hard to find Branch-water..
..in Vegas? LMAO!
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
Hard to find even a branch in Vegas
and I mean a tree branch!
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
ICQ: 591535544
Yahoo IM: jacksbrain
Vegas has about everything else you would want
I’m sure if one had enough money they could get what ever they want
"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO
Actually It Was
Dr. Samuel Johnson who spoke of mind focus and hanging. And he was the source of many, many other pithy comments, a couple of which could apply to the UK loss:
"What we hope ever to do with ease, we must learn first to do with diligence."
Too much ease with Arkansas, not enough diligence with SC. And:
"Things don’t go wrong and break your heart so you can become bitter and give up. They happen to break you down and build you up so you can be all that you were intended to be."
A good loss, if you will.
"The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." --Thomas Jefferson
As to the out-coaching comments,
I’ll quote Der Baron, (read aloud in a midwestern twang),“Well, Claude, the boys just didn’t do what we told them to tonight.”
And he was talking about a team that WON.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
You "Drinking Folks"
might learn to enjoy the games a lot better if you left off the “sauce”
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
Nah, my old brother,
everybody knows it makes you smarter, especially about basketball. ;-))
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Meant to say bourbon makes you smarter about basketball.
Right now, I’m having a post-dinner single-finger shot of 12-year old Johnny Walker Black (my only one of the day, thank you very much), and I suddenly know a lot about golf, which originated in the same land that this libation did.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Yeah, my point was that what you get "smart" about
depends on the liquid. Golf-Scotland-Scotch. BBall-Ky(where else?)-Bourbon
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Hey
all of yall stay safe in the upcoming winter storm. They are saying ice/snow here and north of us. Yall be safe and if I lose power, someone will have to call me and give me updates on my phone…….lol.
I got 10 gallons of gas, and filled the generator.....it will run the satellite and the TV if nothing else!!!!
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Hope we don't need a generator
WHAT will I do?!?! Oh, just remembered…..I have radio with a generator…..that will have to suffice.
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
sure....just remember you get 2 screaming girls.....a fireplace that only heats about 2 rooms
and an 84 yr old man that is almost deaf….lol…..so why not a few more…..lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Who was it who was talkin' smack about Duke?
One of our own female fans? <,,,,, uh wink wink wink…..>
Duke SUCKS.
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
ICQ: 591535544
Yahoo IM: jacksbrain
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