The Keys To Success
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT
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Tru and Ken have done their usual wonderful job of trying to console those of us here in the BBN that have been ready to shave our heads and put on bedsheets and start a quest to try and solve the football team's problems. As per usual.....I ain't convinced, so I decided to do exactly what Tru told me to and read all of the info out there about where the recruits come from and who gets them. I sampled www.Rivals.com, and ESPN.com as well as several of the in state services about the existing class of the top 150. And then went back and took a look at the historical data as well as next year's recruits also.
Here is what I have found, and although this is a translation of the data I gathered, it is verbatim and without modification by myself.
Of the top 150 recruits available for next year, only 104 are at this point signed to a commitment letter. Their locations are along the same lines that Tru, as well as KSR.com's Matt Jones have shown, but not completely.
Approximately 19% of those 150 individuals are from the State of Florida. While about 18% are from Texas, 14% from California, 11% Georgia, 5% South Carolina,4% Virginia, with the other 39% scattered throughout the continental U.S.
So, does Florida get all the best recruits, well, no, but they get more than their fair share. (By the way, I have petitioned the U.S. Congress to start a bill banning Florida from all sports competition at the collegiate level. It will probably never see the light of day, but I had to do something.)
So it would seem that at first glance geography is the key in getting those prime recruits, however, I found another telling statistic that means even more in this situation. Of those recruits committed, Florida has signed more than any other school in the country, so they got them because they were close right, well, not so fast......it appears as though they got them as much because they got out there and recruited them early. Texas is right there with Florida, but some of their recruits are not from Texas.
Florida, Texas, Bama, Georgia, LSU,Penn St, Ohio St,Oklahoma,and wait for this one....Tennessee have the most recruits signed, sealed, and delivered. By the way FSU and Miami together have less than any of the schools mentioned above. Anyone want to guess who amongst those schools listed has the biggest Athletic Dept. budget going to football??? I'll give you three tries and the first 2 don't count.
What about those other hotbeds of recruiting that the other schools seem to get to before us? Well, Ohio only has 3 in the top 150, South Carolina has 8,Georgia has 16,Tennessee only 3, Mississippi has 2,Louisiana has 3,and vaunted Bama only has 5. The southeast does dominate in this area, but it is the entire southeast, not just Florida, and not just Florida is getting those recruits. Kentucky just for grins had 0 players in the top 150, so we know that we are going hunting if we want the best there is out there.
So that leads us to the next step......Anything But Gatorade called this a "vicious cycle" I believe of" we are lousy so we don't get the recruits, and since we don't get the recruits, we are lousy". So how do we change that? Some have stated that Coach Brooks while having had success has taken us as far as he can. I am going to go out on a limb here after doing my research and say that does not completely hold water. It seems according to ESPN, that it is much more about who you have up in the booth than it is about the head coach. All of the men listed in that article are recruiting gurus who are not head coaches at their prospective universities.
But we can't hire someone away from a top 25 school to recruit for us you say??? Why would they want to come here and do for us what they are doing at Florida and USC and Texas? Well that is the key.....we have to make this situation attractive to some of these guys, and some of these names may surprise you.
- Shane Beamer, S. Carolina, Special Teams Coach
- Doc Holliday, West Virginia (he helped build Florida)
- Ed Orgeron, Tennessee
- Eddie Gran, Tennessee
- Giff Smith, Georgia Tech
- John Blake, N.Carolina
- Those are in no particular order, by the way, and there are 19 more names included in the article. These are the guys that can get anyone, anywhere, anytime. They have no boundaries as to where they recruit, and they back down from no one. They are all highly regarded at what they do, and well-respected by their peers.
- Can any of those names come in and help? I believe they can, and it probably wouldn't take replacing our head coach to do it. Maybe we have reached that point where Mitch should go to Coach Brooks and ask him to look at bringing in one of these top-notch recruiters to get us to that next level. When Tubby Smith left, the story was that we wanted to keep him but he didnt want to replace anyone on his staff with big time recruiting guys. I would hope that could be avoided, but as everyone has pointed out, we are not going anywhere until we get the recruits. All of those people in that article are big time recruiters who do not necessarily want or need to be the head coach at our program.
- Remember that there are 46 recruits still out there for next year. It's not too late to go after some of the very best top talent out there. Of the top 15 only 3 had committed so far. Shouldn't we at least take a shot at making these guys Wildcats??
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One won't find a better recruiter than Joker Phillips
The high school coaches love the guy, and he’s responsible for opening up Georgia and Louisville, and he’s not even the recruiting coordinator.
I’m unsure why UK’s recruiting is being brought into question. They just signed a top-30 class, which is unheard of at UK. Folks, football ain’t basketball; it takes more time for football recuits to make a serious impact on the field. Just ask Charlie Weiss at Notre Dame, who put together the No. 1 recruiting class in the country two years ago, yet his team still stunk it up.
Time folks, it takes time.
Very well structured post, ABC.
I just put up what everyone is telling me Ken,
that it is about recruiting, and we can’t get the recruits….and those guys are supposed to be the best there is out there…..and Joker’s name didnt come up once. Not saying he isn’t good just relaying what I read…..maybe we need to be like UT and have 2 gurus at recruiting…..
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I think some UK fans are just scared of football taking away from basketball
Illogical? Yes. Is it going to change any time soon? No. I’m a big a UK basketball fan as there is, but there is room for both.
You can’t be afraid to think outside of the box. I know I keep harping on him, but Brian Kelly went from Grand Valley State, to some directional Michigan school, to a BCS bowl in about 5 years.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
I honestly dont know anything about the guy Coop
except what I see of his record….but I like what I see….and I am not convinced that replacing Brooks is the answer either….that ESPN article suggests that the best recruiters dont have to be head coaches…..Ken says that Joker is among the best out there, and if he says so, I believe him. But we still always get back to recruiting every time we discuss football…..and a lot of people are saying it cannot be done here….I do not believe that, and never will.
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Tell the idiots that say "it can't be done here"
that it is being done here … as we speak.
Those that say UK isn’t getting recruits, well, one can’t debate a turnip.
He just called Tru a turnip!
j/k
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
he pretty much said it Ken
this is just one example
It doesn’t. This is a Gordian knot, and UK doesn’t have the knife to cut through it.
If you combine Matt Jones’ excellent post of last night with my comments of two years ago, and look at it honestly and without bias, you would see that there is really nothing that can be done in the near term, and probably ever. There is not enough money in the world, or a coach good enough, anywhere, to create a national power at UK.
It is like asking Belize to find a way to join the G-8. Some things, while theoretically possible under the rubric of "nothing is impossible," are just so unlikely as to be the functional equivalent.
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Well, I don't see the word "recruit" in that, besides,
he’s talking about UK becoming a national power (something he’s stated many times).
I’ve never, ever stated that I thought UK would or could become a national power (on a consistent basis). But expecting UK to become a consistently top-30 team is certainly attainable, and I don’t think Tru would contradict that.
I actually think most fans would be ok with that
(Top 25-Top 30) annually….but to be honest, the rankings dont mean anything to me…….I just dont want to see the situations like Saturday come up….not playing with any competitive fire…..that’s unacceptable…..and if it does go directly to the quality of our players, then its time to upgrade that quality any way we legally can…..I know we are not Florida……and I also know that if we ever become Florida in Football, we need to be on the lookout for the Second Coming……but I do not want to see us play like we do not belong on the same field with those kinds of teams….
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Headway
I agree that Kentucky is making waves in football recruiting. The problem is that even though we signed a top 30 class, it was still ranked second or third from last in the SEC, which is where we usually finish in the grand scheme of things anyway.
If we can somehow continue climbing the recruiting ladder, then hopefully the product on the field will improve in terms of SEC wins.
Anything but Gatorade - yet another SEC sports blog
by Anything but Gatorade on Sep 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
Sadly, it’s been a common theme (from me) for the last couple of years. Patience … my kids taught me that :)
I use the old David Carradine line.....
patience Grasshopper on my kids every day…..Doesnt work for me…but hey…..lol
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Where's the proof?
Where is the results of his recruiting? I haven’t seem any of Kentucky’s classes rated higher than 10th in the conference in several years.
And the results of Joker's recruiting?
Where is the results of his fine recruiter? I have seen a recruiting class at Kentucky rated higher than 10th in the conference in a long time.
How hard to you think it would be to recruit a top class to Notre Dame? It seems the best football in the country is played in the Catholic schools and they all should want to go to South Bend and play in front of Touchdown Jesus.
If Notre Dame isn’t get a top ten class every year I would be surprised
Recruiting
23-16 over the last three years are the direct result of improved recruiting. I know, I know, they haven’t beaten the big boys in the SEC, save LSU and Georgia. But UK’s winning % over that three year period is better than anytime since the early 50’s.
If UK posts a top-30 recruiting class, it’s not their fault several SEC schools are rated higher. I refer you to my post of yesterday about the pitfalls of playing in the best football conf. in the country.
Looks good until you see who the wins are against
The problem is the other SEC schools are going to continue to recruit and get better also. OK, eveyone says let’s get out of the SEC. What would that prove? How many kids come to Kentucky because their home state school didn’t sign them and they want to show they can play SEC football. If we went to the Big East would we get the same caliber of player? I doubt it.
I’’m sorry but for right now, with the coaching staff in place and what we know the future holds I don’t see the Cats getting much better in the near future. Why should they? Do you think Brooks or any other coach on that staff is in fear of losing his job? No way! We don’t say this is going to have to be the year you beat three teams in the Eastern Division to show improvement. We’ve been tickled to death to beat just one, sometimes, and one from the other division.
There’s no pressure to win at Kentucky. We are happy to go watch us beat up on three nobodies and some times Louisville. No expectations, No disappointments.
Nice piece
The biggest athletic dept. budget going to football is probably Tennessee. Their football program makes their university a lot of money. I have heard for years that Trooper Taylor, (an assistant coach) was the man that landed a lot of their top players. He left for another job, but they still seem to get really good players. I think the last few years UK has done a good job improving their football program. It’s just that the SEC is an extremely tough league.
"You are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
Actually, it's Florida at the top of the heap in budget......
by a BIG margin
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ABC
I guess I’m an optimist, because I read that and think “Why not here?”
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
Why not here?
Well, we’ve already done what Cincy is now doing, as it pertains to a Top 10 ranking ( UK reached #7 or 8 in the country two years ago). As far as the Bearcats going to a BCS game — That’s a direct reflection on the weak conference they play in (at least this year).
Let the BCats play Alabama and Florida and see what happens.
I’m not belittling Kelly. What he’s done at Cincy is impressive, but you can’t compare UK to Cincy — Totally different situations.
really nice piece there Coop
guess the kid found something in his gut in the process…..I hope we can do the same Saturday…..The Cincy story is one that has me torn…..I honestly believe that they have benefitted from being in a weaker conference, HOWEVER, that in and of itself is not the sole reason by a longshot……a drill sergeant of mine once told our platoon that once you take away all the reasons for NOT doing something you only have reasons left to do it…..and all you have to do to succeed is to look only at the reasons FOR doing something when you feel like it cannot be done…..then he said to just go out there and shoot at what moves……lol….I am still not sure to this day which piece of advice was the one that really worked.
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Play Cincinnati!
Wouldn’t a series with Cincinnati be good for us? Close by, the area kids could see that the Cats are the better team because we play in the SEC. You know, all that stuff we tell each other. I remember the last time we played Cincinnati. They didn’t play along with the script and beat us.
I would love a home/home with Cincy.
UK is 5-2-1 against Cincy since 1983, but the two haven’t played since ’96.
Southern Ohio is fertile recruiting ground.
I just went back and looked at the schedules Curry and Mumme played. They played some good teams. LSU every year. That would be fun. I didn’t see Eastern or Western on Curry’s schedule. Mumme did play Eastern and I remember Kidd being pissed because he ran up the score.
Scheduling certainly as changed in the last 15 or so years.
Nice piece ABC ... here's my 2 cents
As a matter of necessity, I follow Georgia Tech Football. Not that this is an answer to UK football problems but, some similarties seem to exist. Here goes … we seemed to be stuck in a rut with Chan Gailey … we made a bowl game every year (blue field bowl, some humanitarian thing in San Fransisco (twice) and an an emerald bowl – whatever! … while losing to Georgia consistently as well. Anyway we brought in Paul Johnson and the Option offense and the difference has been dramatic .. not just in beating georgia or mentioned in the ACC championship race … but in recruiting as well. Any chance UK could adopt a new coach and an option (or other) offense when Brooks retires????
I really wish it would work out that simply....
I believe that the Wildcat offense in the right hands has the potential to be that offense. But, and this is a REALLY big but, we need 2 extremely well functioning QB’s at all times, or a running back with one helluva arm. And as far as the situation with Rich goes, I think he could oversee the right kind of program, if he would allow himself to open things up. But that is not his style nor his strength, so it has little hope of happening.
The experts are going to tell you we do not have the athletes to run that spread/triple option/Wildcat offense effectively in the SEC……well, according to those same experts we dont have the personnel to do anything in the SEC……and sadly, I wish I could feel better about our chances of getting them in the current state of affairs.
We know what we need……we know who we need……we know how to win……all we have to do is find a way to get all of that at once….of course if I could make all of that happen, I would be on the sidelines, not blogging about it on a fansite…..lol…..
But your premise is not flawed. The right man(and that could be Coach Brooks), with an inventive approach, and who knows???
I would love to see a def coordinator with something like Buddy Ryan’s old 46 come in and reinvent a pressure defense that would scare the SEC, but you need 4-5 star athletes to make it work…..and we are being told we cannot get those kinds of kids………
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I see ... well it was just a thought
It seems like GT is always competing with so many teams for talent … much like UK … Georgia, Clemson, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina … all with strong football programs – all close to Tech – it just seems like we are “all of a sudden” a place where good running backs want to come and good offensive linemen with them (we’ve incorporated some passing and “by-god” a draw play lately) … I wasn’t excited about the triple option at first – but now it seems to be a selling point for top recruits – and I hate to draw this comparison – but, kinda like Calipari with the DDMO … it’s a selling point for recruits ( among other plusses) … there just has to be a lure for the recruit – something to hang your hat on – something to set you apart from the others …. Thanks for a thought-provoking piece.
It may prove that you are exactly right in time cris
when Mumme and his “Air Raid” offense got here it was like an epihany for some…..they found out we could actually not only throw the ball, we could mix in a lot more with it. Of course having Tim Couch here helped. Problem was, Hal had no defense to go with it, and we didnt make a lot of progress…..we made some…..however it turned out that it was not all kosher. Really good teams today, have both an innovative offensive guy, AND a defensive guy that can either get people to play above their individual skill levels when they play as a team, or design a defense that plays to the strengths that he does have.
If you are a coach that supports it, and you want to play smashmouth football, then fine….you do what Bama does and go get kids that simply put, will run over you and not even look back to see if you survived the crash. Florida has the capability to not only do that, they can gadget you and tweak you until you either lose focus, or as we did Saturday, you go in scared out of your jock and let yourself fall apart.
Either way, assuming that Brooks does retire any time soon, your answer is yes, there are guys out there that can make this thing work, in spite of what some may think. But I honestly believe it is going to take someone so determined and hardheaded that he will never listen to the naysayers, nor the gurus that say we are “geographically challenged”, or anything else negative about the situation, and just go get the best coaches, players, and anything else he needs to get the job done.
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