Let's All Play "Whack-a-Calipari"
You know, I really don't mind bloggers and the sports media taking shots at Calipari. It has become a kind of summer diversion to take shots at Kentucky, at Pitino, at Gillispie and of course, at Coach Cal. And with all the news surrounding all these men, you can hardly blame any of them, and trust me, I don't blame them for having a bit of fun at the expense of these guys. Calipari may not deserve what he is getting, but it does come with the territory when circumstances work against you like they have against him. The other guys have received their derision and mocking the old-fashioned way -- they've earned it.
Comes now Rush The Court, a blog that I absolutely respect, but one that appears to be a temporary vicitim of Calipari Derangement Syndrome from which I am confident they will fully recover in time. In a recent post, they voice suspicions that the recent decision by Bilal Batley to leave UK from a post he held at Memphis, assistant director of basketball operations (a non-coaching position) was really a dismissal by UK for his part in a minor violation that involved shagging a few rebounds for a player and pointing out some spots on the floor he should shoot from. To wit:
Did Calipari hear about the possibility of some kind of (even miniscule) violation perpetrated by this man, and order him out in the spirit of running a totally clean and pristine program at UK? Or, if a bigger investigation is forthcoming, did the coaches convene and decide to oust Batley preemptively because some other things might be discovered? Is there more news to follow from Lexington? Nobody can say right now, and the possibilities mentioned above are total speculation and conjecture on the part of this blogger, as of right now. There’s always the chance that — and you might want to hold onto something, here — the violation really is just a tiny thing that UK is playing it very safe (and understandably so) by reporting, and Batley really is going back to Houston for the aforementioned family illness. If that is indeed the case, of course we hope everything turns out well for the Batley family.
Now, I won't say that it is impossible Batley was fired for this, but I will postulate that the probability is vanishingly small. In the first place, Calipari doesn't exactly have the reputation of a "zero tolerance" coach (right, Jeremy Hunt?), and neither is he known to be given to fits of mercurial vindictiveness, like Larry Brown or Bobby Knight, and even Billy Gillispie.
Apparently, the justification for RTC's suspicions are rooted in UK's supposed concern for its image under Calipari. But if UK goes dismissing every staff member involved in a secondary NCAA violation, it would pretty much be the only program in America to do so as far as I know (how many caps did Tennessee pop in Lane Kiffin's staff recently?). My understanding is that Bilal Batley really did leave for personal reasons, and even though it is theoretically possible that Calipari, either on his own or at the direction of Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart, dismissed the young man for causing a violation, such an act would be seriously at odds with the actions of UK under other coaching regimes, and equally at odds with Calipari's known personality.
So frankly, I find this little conspiracy theory ... how to put it delicately so as not to offend ... unconvincing. But to be fair to RTC, they are not by any means the only people speculating on things related to UK. Even Larry Vaught has recently been hinting about a "big national story" on UK basketball that he has been hearing rumors about, but just today has reached the apparent conclusion that this is all smoke and no fire (I assume the "wasn't" should be "was" in the sentence about DeCourcy, or else the paragraph doesn't make any sense) and that the big story was the DeCourcy scoop on the subject secondary violation.
So why did Batley leave? According to news reports and other insiders, it was for exactly the reported reasons, a personal issue. RTC asks why Batley could not come back after that issue was resolved, and points to that question as important, but I think that the answer is that the personal problem could be rather long-term, and it wouldn't be appropriate for UK to hold that position open indefinitely, and I don't think Batley would ask them to.
The "I-can't-wait-for-UK-to-get-caught-cheating-again-so-I-can-gloat" watch continues...
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97 comments
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Comments
Paranoia
The paranoia being exhibited by the media blogosphere and even some fans regarding the basketball program is becoming quite tiresome. I know embrace the hate and all that but more than making me angry it just becomes annoying to listen to crazy conspiracy theories. This batley thing is such a non story.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Sep 12, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post Tru.....
I hope this is the big national story everyone is concerned about. Ky has had our share of basketball related news this off-season. Oh well, what can we do but…..uhhumm….“Embrace The Hate.”
:-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Sep 12, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
And right you are. Give that hate a big ol’ hug! :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 12, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thick skin
To RTC’s credit, they admit to “speculation” and “conjecture” in this case— but yes Tru, people are seemingly losing their minds over the impending Calipari-UK domination of college hoops. Derangement Syndrome is a good way to describe it.
Personally, I’ve always had pretty thick skin when it comes to critics of the program, but I might have to start growing a shell.
by wildcatwhisperer on Sep 12, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't deflect ...
… embrace! :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 12, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even one of the Kansas sites (The Shiver I think)..
had a marathon thread (they called it epic) regarding this situation..it was hard to read due to all the Cal and UK bashing that was going on..I wasn’t aware that we were so hated by Jayhawk fans? In any case they were predicting the end of Cal and that Uk would receive the dreaded “death sentence” from the NCAA..some noted bloggers were even there defending the fort.. Marc Maggard had several posts that were summarily dismissed..also the recruiting blog @ Memphis Roar wasted a lot of time flushing out the issue..its kinda nice to be on the minds of so many..
by BlueOrion on Sep 12, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
I actually am having a good time with it. The vitriol from Kansas fans is remarkable to me, also. North Carolina fans, to their credit, have actually been far less psychotic, which makes me loathe them a little less.
Go figure.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 12, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hated by Jayhawk fans
I have a really good friend that is a JayHawk fan and she was telling me that she and her fellow jayhawk friends really turned on us with the whole Billy Gillispie firing. I believe they referred to us as “Whining Babies.”
Needless to say, when she asked me my opinion I was not included. ;)
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Sep 12, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it funny,
as I have said many times that it is ok for KU, Duke, UNC, and UCLA to expect excellence from their coaches and programs, but when we expect it, we are whiny babies. Just ask Dick Vitale.
by UKTimmy on Sep 12, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if I had to pick...
UNC and KU fans would have to be rated tied for third to last..loathing is best served as a spread..
by BlueOrion on Sep 12, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whenever the Cats present a threat..
somewhere in the deep recesses of the subconscious mind there is a faint nagging twinge of fear that cannot be ignored…this is why they hate..this is why they must hate..
by BlueOrion on Sep 12, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would not blame Calipari at all for being overly cautious if that indeed was the situation.
But if I have learned one thing about Cal, it is that he is loyal to a fault to anyone who is involved with his programs. No way he fires someone over something that is beyond belief, if it is considered a violation. The reason there was no talk of this is because there was nothing to talk about. Another witch hunt in a synagogue if you ask me.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 12, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Help with Blog
I asked this question previously, but think that no one saw it. Every time I click on any wildcatblueblog.com link, it loads but the content disappears immediately. Does anyone else have this problem, or an answer as to why this might be happening?
Thanks for any help.
by longtime on Sep 13, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't had any problems like that
nor have I heard of anyone else having that problem. Sorry longtime. I would offer suggestions but I am lucky to decipher these letters on this, what’s it called?….keyboard? :)
I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
by bluecrip on Sep 13, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't had any problems with the site either
:-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Sep 13, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your problem
Try refreshing the page when this happens. Seems like a had a problem such as yours several months ago.
by kykat51 on Sep 13, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same thing happens to me
Doesn’t matter how many times you refresh the page, it all disappears.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
by btcoop71 on Sep 14, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RTC post
Greetings, everyone. I’m John Stevens, the author of the post on Rush The Court that Tru references in his piece today. Where the sites will let us, if it’s a blog/message board of which we’re particularly fond, we sometimes like to offer a response to the discussion resulting from any article we write that hits a nerve, good or bad. ASOB is one of our mainstays when it comes to Univ. of Kentucky news, is a pleasure to read, and a high-class site. That said, if you don’t mind, I’d like to say some things about last night’s post that I wrote at RTC.
Most of the qualms with the article seem to have to do with the presumed element of speculation in linking the departure of Batley with the tiny violation (and I think we all agree, if Batley’s actions constitute a violation, something is seriously wrong) that was self-reported by UK. In my mind, this series of events as described represents one of three possibilities:
1. Calipari heard about the violation and dismissed Batley because Calipari is playing things very safely, taking absolutely no chances in the NCAA’s eyes. This is his dream job and he’s protecting it.
2. There is no connection. Batley left UK because of a family illness, and the timing of the miniscule violation and its reportage is totally coincidental. Calipari had nothing to do with it.
3. There’s something extra to the story that involves Batley — maybe big, maybe little — and, in the spirit of keeping things clean, a decision was made to dismiss Batley using the “family illness” angle as a cover story. As head coach, Calipari would either have to make that decision or at least approve it, it would seem.
Now, unless I’ve misinterpreted Tru’s takes on this, it looks like his problem with the article is why possibilities 1 and 3 are even mentioned when possibility 2 is not only the most likely, but no evidence exists for 1 and 3, and he feels that I have brought those into the mix simply because John Calipari is the UK coach.
Here is my response: with this sequence of events, I (and, I think, countless others) would be considering possibilities 1 and 3 even if it happened at any other program. In my mind, the sequence of events merits some reflection — call it speculation, fine — even if it were happening at another school and under another coach. What has happened is not disputable; after being here only a few months, Batley departed from the UK program — an incredibly sweet job at an absolutely resume’-boosting program, without a fight, with a presumed family illness as the given reason, and a very short time later an incerdibly tiny violation associated with him is reported to the NCAA. I would find it hard to believe that not a single UK fan, including those here (both reader and administrator) didn’t wonder just for a few moments about whether there was some connection. It is only natural to consider that a connection could exist. And I believe that it is a valid consideration completely independent of the program or the coach. If this happened at Kansas under Bill Self, or UNC under Roy Williams, or where/whoever, I would still wonder about it. If it happened at Kentucky under Tubby Smith or Rick Pitino, I’d still wonder about it. And let’s be honest, if Calipari were never hired at UK and he was still at Memphis, if this sequence of events happened, everyone here would be wondering about it, as would every other follower of college hoops.
That is why, as much as I love and rely on ASOB, I object to Tru’s title. This was not a game of Whack-A-Calipari. I would be wondering about these events no matter where or under whom they occurred. I think anyone would. That’s all I did in the piece I wrote. In my opinion, the diagnosis of Calipari Derangement Syndrome (I’m smiling as I type this) was made before the labs and the X-rays came back, and is in fact, with all due respect, both premature and in error.
The question that remains, then, is…is it valid to even consider posibilities 1 and 3 as I describe them above? Because of the timing of these events, I believe it is, as I’ve said. Tru makes the statement that I feel my consideration is “rooted in UK’s supposed concern for it’s image under Calipari.” I feel that is only partially true; in terms of image, I bet Coach Calipari’s FIRST concern is the program’s image in the eyes of the NCAA. If I were Calipari and there were even a HINT of a connection between a person on the UK staff over whom I had jurisdiction and any violation at all, that person’s job would immediately be tenuous. Why? Because I take Calipari at his word. I believe him when he says this is his dream job, and I think it means enough to him to where he would take NO chances with something harming it. This is why I think it is at least valid to put options 1 and 3 on the table. And I feel that my last question in the article is important, and has yet to receive an answer. If a family illness is why Batley left, he could eventually have his job back if he wanted it, and why wouldn’t he? It’s a stupendous job! If Calipari’s “personality” were really relevant, we could say that he’d certainly let Batley come back, no matter the length of departure. So why is the guy totally gone? To start coming up with far-fetched possibilities would be espousing conspiracy theories. To merely ask the question, though, is not.
Tru also adds that firing Batley would “be at odds with the actions of UK under other coaching regimes.” Again, with all due respect, I feel this is irrelevant. Because let’s be honest, Kentucky fans (of whom I count myself one). This is not just another coaching regime. I hate to say it, but we all know it — Calipari is indeed kind of a special case. He has coached at two places, and both of those places had Final Fours vacated. I am NOT saying it is directly due to anything he did! But I think we all know that to write it off as coincidence would be naive. Again, I personally believe that EVEN IF the man did some suspect things in the past, it doesn’t matter, because I believe him when he says that it gets no higher than Kentucky, and I don’t think he’d take any chances in screwing up the place. If he was ever going to run a totally clean program, Kentucky is the place where he’ll do it. But because of what happened at UMass and Memphis, people will always have questions about John Calipari. Kentucky fans will simply have to put up with it. That is the price of the enjoyment, the upcoming stable of ridiculous athletes, as well as Final Fours and (likely) championships that are about to arrive at UK. Sometimes people’s questions will be valid, and sometimes they won’t. For the reasons stated above, I feel my piece as written falls into the former group. And because I believe option 2 is what really happened, I even noted a couple of times in the article that there’s probably nothing more to this, and that any “conspiracy theory” that anyone senses would fall under the category of conjecture. Again…hence my surprise when I saw Tru’s piece from earlier today. I don’t think I wrote anything that anyone else wasn’t thinking, and I don’t think I went out on any crazy limbs; and just in case anyone thought I did, I covered myself. And finally, while I/we acknowledge Calipari’s past, the fact that he is the coach in this case is actually coincidental, and any assertion that I was picking on him is…dare I say it…maybe embracing the hate a little too tightly.
I appreciate the chance to respond, and I hope I haven’t bored anyone with my defense. I also hope this didn’t come off as making it look I was/we were angry or offended. I feel it’s a respectful thing to respond to others’ thoughts about something you’ve written, as long as it’s done right. My response is not meant as whining, but rather to facilitate more discussion, because it’s that interaction with others that is one of the great pleasures of running or being part of a blog/website. While I disagree with Tru’s assertion that I espoused a conspiracy theory, and I’m surprised RTC was singled out, given the much longer limbs that other writers/blogs are going out onto with this, I appreciate it anytime someone reads our site. I hope anyone who hasn’t will come check out our site, leave some comments if you feel like it (even if you disagree with us), because we’re proud of it and we work hard at it. Good luck with Louisville next week. Shouldn’t be a problem.
John Stevens
Rush The Court
http://rushthecourt.net
(both on Facebook)
by JStevRTC on Sep 13, 2009 2:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Friendly Advice = Shorter Reply
And a comment.
Top level coaches – Calipari, Williams, K-ski, Calhoun, Donovan, et al – push things right to the edge of what is legal. Dean Smith did exactly that. Denny Crum, too.
Years ago, top level coaches – Rupp, Wooden to name two – ignored the line of legality.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 13, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 'Everyone Else Does It' Defense.
Please…you get what you ask for. UK pursued and ‘bought’ a good coach and great recruiter that has a poor reputation. It is what it is. Don’t feign surprise and disapointment when Calipari is scutinized. It’s not like he hasn’t brought it on himself over the years.
And as far as hate goes; nobody ‘hates’ a program more than UK does Duke. A look in the mirror often give one a healthy perspective.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 8:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… I can agree with your scorn for the “everyone else does it” defense. That is known as the Golden Rationalization, and is anathema around here.
I don’t think it’s fair to say he is “feining surprise.” Everyone at UK rightly expects this type of suspicion, largely because practically nobody employs actual critical thinking when examining the situation. It’s too easy just to follow the narrative, and come up with evil in any given set of facts, rather than examining the facts themselves.
As far as Duke loathing goes, well, yeah, I think most UK fans would cop to that. But Duke earned that the old-fashioned way.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is fair to criticize those who immediately think the worse.
Just like it is fair to criticize those who completely ignore the potential bad consequences or to weigh the risks of the worse case senario.
In regards to this specific issue around Batley (I may have missed it), but if he left for personal reasons, why didn’t he or Calipari shed some light on this? If this was the case, I don’t expect details but some sort of clarity would be helpful. At this point, I don’t think a whole lot of blame can be thrown to those who smells something a little fishy.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what you mean by the first para.
Moving on to the second, the answer to your question is below in my response.
Finally, to those predisposed to smell fish, may I recommend Febreeze? :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me try this....
I think fair minded UK fans would do themselves and the program well by looking into the actions by Cal with a more critical eye than by crying media foul each and everytime, and whining about the unfairness of it all.
With two sons living in different frat houses, I know of the wonderfulness of Febreeze….that’s for sure.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My response ...
1. What “actions” by Cal? There was no “action” by Cal in this case to look into.
2. I am not “crying foul,” I was simply responding to RTC’s comments.
3. Fans whine about unfair treatment of their team by the media. That’s what makes them fans.
As to your last comment, I can only say that I wish I had Febreeze around when I was in college. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Actions' may have been a poor choice of words...but I trust my point is not lost by you.
Cal, as with any other coach, is the head of the program (I know that is not news), so he has a responsibility to get in front of rumors. He is not doing himself any favors by not giving a better explanation….that’s all. Again, he doesn’t need to go into the details, but if he stays quiet I don’t see how others can be criticized for drawing concousions.
Furthermore, my suggestions to the fans and others goes beyond this particular issue and beyond just you. Take it as a general helpful hint. :-)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nonsense.
He is right not to even acknowledge rumors. He owes no explanation to anyone, and quite frankly, it was a personal matter. Personal matters are by definition, personal. That is, they are matters not intended to be exposed to public scrutiny. The end.
The facts of the matter are known. They have been explained. There are no other conclusions to draw, unless you are predisposed to do so.
If I need helpful hints from obsessive critics, I’ll go to The Loathsome Troll Jeff Goodman. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he has a 'right' to not respond.
That’s not debateable. The question is whether it’s smart or not. It’s not either/or. He doesn’t have to go and throw up all over this ex-employee, but he can respond. If he choses to remin mute (and yes, he has a right then), then you can expect some people to draw conclusions….even wrong ones.
Lastly, the ‘facts’ my be known (at least partially and questionably), but they sure have heck haven’t been ‘explained’.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this mean.....
As far as Duke loathing goes, well, yeah, I think most UK fans would cop to that. But Duke earned that the old-fashioned way.
we have to give credit to dUKe for something?…..LOL…..C,mon…..I don’t wanna.
Well they did get to be our biggest (IMO) rival the old-fashioned way. I supppose. :-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Sep 13, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, we bought a good coach.
So whats your point?? We do get what we ask for. Not only that we get what we demand. Louisville bought Rick Pitino, but they didnt need the money to bring Pitino to Louisville. BTW, according to reports Memphis counter offered with more money but Calipari came to the Holy Grail of College basketball anyway. It doesnt have to do with just money.
Once again, whats your point?? UK fans hate Duke. Is this some sort of revelation? The fact is, Calipari/UK hate is in the news almost everyday. UK hating Duke is just a fact of life and no one is blogging about it.
I am curious about something. I would like to get a Cards fan. When Denny Crum was fired I was upset. Yep, a UK fan upset about Denny being fired!!!?? I truly believe in my heart that he deserved a going away season. Lets face it, he made UL basketball. How did the UL fans feel about it? I would like to point out that the UL AD actually pushed Denny out so that he could get Pitino. That angered me, and not because I was pissed at Pitino for going to UL. Thats another story. Pushing out Denny for Pitino certainly is worse than firing Billy G. for getting Calipari. I would think most all fans would agree with that statement.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crum is in good standing with UofL and vice versa. I don't get your angst.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I really dont know if Crum has any ill feelings about the way he was pushed out and fired. I do know that many people did raise that question at the time. I also know that people raised questions about the UL ADs lack of respect for your iconic former coach. I find it interesting that you have plenty of opinions on all topics pertaining to UK basketball and you are quick to judge Calipari and ignore facts of his innocence but you have no opinion of your own program or the way your AD so unceremoniously got rid of your hall of fame coach.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hint: This is a UK site. I try to respect that. No one wants to read my opinion about my alma mater.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hint
I think very few people on this site want to read your opinion about UK either.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hinm
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 12:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Every court needs a jester
No matter where you're at, there you are
by cincyblue on Sep 13, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robert Miller, 1974
UC outbid U of L for his services. I know UC paid and what U of L offered.
UC got NCAA probation in 1978 for that sort of thing (but not Miller specifically).
U of l got a free pass until the mid 1990’s.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know UC paid and what U of L offered
At the sixteenth regional tournament in 1982 I personally witnessed Joe B. give Jeff Hall a Hundred dollar handshake. Within seconds, Denny Crum appeared and said: “I won’t pay you, but you will get to play”. Jeff rewarded his faith by helping beat UK in the tournament a few short years later.
Flash...
by ro307805 on Sep 15, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UK Did It (Stepped Over The Line) Under Rupp, Hall, Sutton
UK tiptoed the line under Pitino and will do so under Calipari.
UK was probably closer to the line under Tubby than we may realize.
U of L cheated UCLA-style under Crum. By that I mean they cheated regularly but rarely go caught.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bull Hockey
I lived on the same floor as Griff/Turner and the rest of the team. Knew them personally. No signs of cheating. Griff drove the same car onto campus as a freshman and off of campus as a senior. You don’t know it all.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
U Of L Cheated UCLA-Style Under Crum
No doubt WHATSOEVER.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 14, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Friendly Advice??
That was pretty rude Forty. If you dont want to read long posts, dont, but people are sure welcome to make them. I enjoyed reading the response.
Not very classy.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Sep 13, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much Too Long
Could have been done in 1 paragraph.
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 13, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking To The Diaper
Like most filibusters Mr. Stevens lost this member of the audience after about the second paragraph. Blogs offer the right and opportunity to voice any opinion but all should take heed of The Bard’s comment:
A gentleman that loves to hear himself talk, will speak more in a minute than he will stand to in a month.
"[O]f those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants." --Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1
by Wild Weasel on Sep 13, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not fair.
I think he made fair points, and I will never berate a person for making them at length.
If you don’t feel like reading them, that’s fine, but I am at a loss why you would object to his comments – Ken and I are among the most long-winded bloggers in the entire blogosphere.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry RTC...
but i disagree. a minor infraction and a dismissal for family reasons would NOT receive the same attention as those other schools you mention. furthermore, had it happened at UK the last 4 years – the era of UK irrelevancy – it would not have been discussed.
just a sign of the changing times at uk – nothing more, nothing less….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Sep 13, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i should add...
had it occurred in memphis in the last 4 years, it probably would have received some press – at least locally
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Sep 13, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Friendly Advice......
find some new subject material….you guys who have made your reputations making something out of nothing need to start entertainment or maybe gossip blogs…..you seem to be better suited to that task.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 13, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not really fair though, ABC.
RTC is a very good and reasonable blog, and it is a measure of the esteem in which I hold them that I take the time to dedicate an entire blog posts to one of their posts. For most blogs, a dismissive one-liner would be the extent of my attention.
It’s not really fair to hold them to a standard that we ourselves can’t meet.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru, you, as well as myself and a vast majority of the posters on this site
have railed against the irresponsible and salacious blogging that this column itself represents. Rush The Court may indeed be “usually” “fair and balanced” to quote Fox News, but this is just another example of how even the best among us have let themselves go down this path. If it were a TV show it would be about ratings, as a blog it is about getting the hits. Kentucky news, and now Calipari news gets hits. I agree that Rush The Court is usually above board in its dealings, but they have now joined some less than desirable individuals in making a mountain out of a molehill. Embracing the Hate is fine, and I know it has become your mantra. I myself have become a bit tired of the speculation and innuendo from people that dont know, they just want to speculate. And hope that speculation brings on the hits.
The insurance business has a saying, “throw a bunch of paper at the wall, and hope that some of it sticks”. Seems that some people have applied the theory to all walks of life.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 13, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...what a timely example of my last post above. Thanks for proving my point.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
You once again don’t get it. That’s what fans do. All fans, and they always have, here and elsewhere. So why the derision?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derision? I thought I was being helpful.
….and I am the one that doesn’t ‘get it’? Don’t be so defensive…it’s not becoming. :-)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have an odd way of being "helpful."
Kind of like the help you would give to an enemy. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't want to earn you arrow of 'derision'.
I could do that, of course. I just don’t think you really want me to. :-)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Sep 13, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
Well, I don’t really think that RTC intended to throw stuff at the wall, but I get your point.
I was much more offended by an earlier comment they made vis-a-vis the Calipari/Obama jersey affair, but I decided to let that go unchallenged. It was actually the buildup of recent commentary that prompted my response here, rather than this post in isolation.
But I do not think the instant case was unfair. Rather, I take it as unwarranted suspicion.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone can sit down and just start typing letters.
The good writers can even turn those letters into a story. A reporter has always been held to a standard of veracity in their stories. A blogger is only held to the standards they impose on themselves. Unfortunately only a scant few hold themselves to this standard. Ask yourself this question, Can I prove what I write?, and Would I write this if I had no proof? If the answers to those questions satisfy you, then I would say the material is worth writing.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 13, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… we speculate on here all the time. Are you suggesting that we shouldn’t be doing that?
I can’t hold RTC to a standard that I myself can’t live up to.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speculating about what someone might or might not do
or even about what a person should have done is one thing. But speculating that a “coverup” exists, in a situation where as you said above it is a “personal” matter is simply someone trying to stir up a lot of something that a certain person above will need their Febreeze for.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 13, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree ...
… that there is little reason to speculate on alternative possibilities in this case.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the comment, John.
As usual, you guys do a classy job when responding to my umbrage, and I appreciate it. Just a few remarks in response:
That is why, as much as I love and rely on ASOB, I object to Tru’s title. This was not a game of Whack-A-Calipari. I would be wondering about these events no matter where or under whom they occurred. I think anyone would.
I’m not sure why anyone would wonder about them, that’s the point that kind of gets me. Batley was a relatively low-level assistant who left with an explanation that it was related to a personal problem. UK didn’t provide details because personal problems are, well, personal. Why would that not be enough for you? The only rational explanation, to me, is that you, like others, see something nefarious in Calipari, and are viewing the situation through the lens of that perception.
I understand there has been chatter about “something big” on the UK horizon in terms of negative news, but my understanding is that the secondary violation is “it,” or that “it” is on the same level with the secondary violation. I am confident that is what prompted suspicion #3, and suspicion #1 is directly related in that it is a description of a highly reactionary policy that anyone could argue for. But being close to this program, I do not believe it is likely that UK would be that reactionary. It does not fit the personalities involved, and even though it is a possibility (as is an entire universe of other things), it really doesn’t fit the program.
This is not just another coaching regime. I hate to say it, but we all know it — Calipari is indeed kind of a special case. He has coached at two places, and both of those places had Final Fours vacated. I am NOT saying it is directly due to anything he did! But I think we all know that to write it off as coincidence would be naive.
I think this represents the crux of the problem, an inherent belief that Calipari really is a serial and malicious violator of NCAA rules. That is implicit in this comment, because to write it off as coincidence, especially when examining the totality of the circumstances, is quite rational and not whatsoever naive. Your comment above is the expression of the fears of some UK fans and the firm beliefs of most of Calipari’s detractors, has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with circumstances — the classic fallacy of composition.
Take the eerily similar circumstances at Duke (Corey Magette for the Camby situation) and Kansas (Darrell Arthur for the Rose situation). Nobody considers Coach K or Coach Self to have been culpable in those circumstances, yet in Calipari’s case, we are warned that to accept the rational and factually defensible explanations are “naive.” Hmmm.
I don’t think I wrote anything that anyone else wasn’t thinking, and I don’t think I went out on any crazy limbs; and just in case anyone thought I did, I covered myself. And finally, while I/we acknowledge Calipari’s past, the fact that he is the coach in this case is actually coincidental, and any assertion that I was picking on him is…dare I say it…maybe embracing the hate a little too tightly.
I suppose this is so, but my feeling, rightly or wrongly, was that if this had happened on Roy Williams’ staff, or Bill Self’s, nobody would have said “Boo.” That’s why I’m not sold on your remarks that it doesn’t matter that it was Calipari.
As to “embracing the hate too tightly,” well, you’re probably right about that. I really didn’t mean to impute “hate” to you or anyone else at RTC. I rather see it as being caught up in “the narrative” that has surrounded Calipari since he came here, and even before. It’s certainly understandable, and you have a lot of company, which inevitably makes it easier, if more logically suspect, to defend with arguments like, “where there is smoke, there’s fire.” I think that perception is at the root of most of this type of commentary, where I prefer to look at the facts de novo rather than accepting the prior judgment of others.
Thanks again, John, for your marvelous defense and decorum that we here at A Sea of Blue really appreciate. That’s a big reason why I have so much respect for you, Randy, and the others that write at RTC. Please don’t take my comments too much to heart. I am known for being a defender of lost causes – I was (and to a large extent, still am) a Billy Gillispie defender, which should be instructive. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing about ASoB is
Facts rule. Rumors are not allowed to run the boards. Sure they come up from time to time, but facts are the basis for all meaningful discussions. If the other threads got really busy about this, I am sure it was mostly based on speculations.
Furthermore, I have 100% faith in Sandy Bell and our compliance department at UK. Things are going to be okay with Coach Cal, so everyone should accept it. The man wasn’t found to be at fault by the NCAA at either school. Period.
:-)
Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Sep 13, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We try.
But we also speculate, so that part is OK. I just find very little to justify it. That was my intended point. If no explanation had been offered at all, I would not be so quick to respond, but there was a very plausible explanation offered.
Of course, those predisposed to see the worst, or just suspicious of everything would simply not accept that, whether or not there is actual justification to support a theory that rejects the explanation. I think that’s what we have here.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense
But this was a failed attempt at a “gottcha!” hit piece.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
by btcoop71 on Sep 14, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like soooooo many others out there
a swing and a miss……..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Sep 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Batley was released not because of
a “minor violation” regarding the program and basketball. He was released due to a minor violation with a family member of one of the staff. The b-ball violation was reported as a cover. Nothing here to see and unless you are one of those folks who revel in problems in other’s private lives there really isn’t much to talk about.
I appreciate Mr Stevens coming here to defend his comments but at the same time I find his theories off base and suggestive of THE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT WILL SHOW CALIPARI TO BE THE CHEATING LIAR WE ALL KNOW HE IS SINCE TWO OF HIS PAST STOPS HAVE HAD FINAL FOUR BANNERS VACATED. There was a line there that says it all for me. It speaks of UK being John’s dream job and he wouldn’t do anything to jeapordize his position. If you truly believe that then where does all the vitriol come from? My best guess……it’s for viewership and “fun”. It’s fun to speculate about things that don’t make sense and JUST SUPPOSE IT’S TRUE!!!! I’VE UNCOVERED AND TOLD THE BASKETBALL WORLD THE TRUTH YES THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT NO ONE ELSE KNEW!!! AREN’T I SO SMART AND ALL KNOWING?!?!?!
Unfortunately Tru, I haven’t seen anything here to embrace. No hate. Just simple misguided speculation. Sighhhhh…….
GO BIG BLUE!!!!
I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
by bluecrip on Sep 13, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it lies somewhere in the middle.
John makes some valid points and as always so does Tru. According to John, this is newsworthy and worth speculating, but according to Tru its not really that newsworthy and if it happened anyplace else, it would not even be mentioned. I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I am going to say this for the third time on this site. I wonder what UK and Calipari were thinking when they hired Batley!! With all the scrutiny that UK and Calipari are under, why in the heck would you hire a guy that worked for Kelvin Sampson at TWO different programs that were sanctioned by the NCAA!! I really dont care if Batley is squeaky clean. Thats really unfair of me and I admit it. I dont care if he left for personal reasons or because of the secondary violations, Im glad hes gone.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think ...
… John Calipari rightly rejects the notion of guilt by association. Something I would recommend for all of us.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru I vigorously disagree with you.
I totally understand that we all, including Calipari, should be above the notion of guilt by association. But unfortunately in the real world things dont always work that way. Despite unsubstantiated allegations that Calipari is a cheater, the fact still remains that Sampson is a cheater. Batley was a bad hire from a stand point of public opinion and unfortunately for him he is associated with Sampsons days at OU and IU. Calipari and the UK program has to distance itself from any suspicion of impropriety. Is this fair? No But it is realistic.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then we will agree to disagree.
I don’t do guilt by association. Never have. Never will.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I was going to write!! LOL
I respect that you stand by your convictions. I just find it puzzling that you dont see the bigger picture on this one.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps ...
… because there is no bigger picture to see. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
Thats a very narrow minded statement coming from you.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not narrow minded at all.
Here’s my point — guilt by association is either right or wrong. Batley was either a cheater or he wasn’t.
That’s it. If he was not a cheater, there is no reason at all why UK should not have hired him if Calipari wanted him. Suggesting that the fact he worked for Kelvin Sampson validates the perception that Calipari is a cheater in the eyes of the public is non-sequitur. It has no logical basis.
You have offered no justifiable reason whatever that Batley should not have been hired other than the fact that he once worked for Sampson. In my humble opinion, justifying his disqualification by saying that public opinion might be negatively affected is … how to put this … unnecessarily timorous, Timothy. :-)
UK has to be braver than that. The current vilification of Calipari is either justified or it isn’t, and in my opinion, it is entirely unjustified. Based on that, how could I possibly support excluding Batley, who, if subjected to your reason, would be at worst an apparently similar victim of circumstance?
What you are apparently saying is that it’s okay to hire a coach who has twice been in charge of programs that have been sanctioned by the NCAA, but it isn’t OK to hire an assistant who once worked under a coach who came under NCAA sanction, but was not himself involved. How could I possibly agree with your position while simultaneously holding my position about Calipari without being self-contradictory?
The program should not be throwing out otherwise qualified people because they once worked for a coach who was subsequently accused of cheating. That is unfair to the University of Kentucky, unfair to the individuals in question, and places perception far above principle. Is that what you consider the bigger picture? I hope not.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, the bigger picture.
You know, I was gonna rebutt this, but you obviously dont get my point. You also have said I apparently dont think Calipari should have been hired. I didnt say that and I dont believe that. The programs were found guilty , the coach was found not guilty. I dont know what timorous even means. Im gonna let it go. I think something is being lost in the translation.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
although i agree with tru...
the bigger picture is that Cal walks very close to the line and given UK’s history (both proven and unproven), we must all be on alert. (even Forty mentions that we have danced on both sides of the line in a post above).
quite frankly, i would rather have all the attention such as RTC/Hoze/etal and have them be wrong than to blissfully act like nothing could happen and wake up on probation. does not mean i cannot enjoy the ride, but helps me keep my eyes open….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Sep 13, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not say ...
… that you thought Cal should not have been hired. Not at all, you misunderstood.
What I said was that holding the position that Cal should have been hired and Batley should not have been was logically inconsistent for the reasons I explained, namely that both were, in my opinion, victims of circumstance.
That’s what I was trying to say, anyway.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something was lost
might’ve been the Babel fish……..
I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
by bluecrip on Sep 14, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it can be consistent
Like this. . .
1. Neither Batley nor Calipari have been “convicted” of anything.
2. Yet they have both been associated with people/situations that were, shall we say, less than kosher.
3. It was worth it to hire Calipari – a man who apparently has that special talent/drive to take UK to the ultimate in college basketball.
4. It is not worth it to hire someone with such a taint (valid or otherwise) to a low-level position.
In #3, the (potential) rewards outweigh the risk. In #4, the risks are too high relative to the impact Batley could make on the program.
I think that is a perfectly valid position to hold. The UK administration’s hiring decisions owe fealty to the UK program only, not to some greater cause of truth, justice, and the American way.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -Inigo Montoya
by NYCCats on Sep 14, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I obviously don't agree ...
… because I stand here on a principle — namely, guilt by association is not kosher.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 14, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By your standards then Tim
UK should never have hired Calipari……
I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
by bluecrip on Sep 13, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crip, nope.
It is proven that Calipari is guilty of nothing. I am not going to go into this in depth again. I stand by what I said before. The UK athletic program and Coach Cal have an obligation to make sure there is no perception of impropriety on the part of the UK basketball program. I dont believe that guilt by association is right, but unfortunately in the instance, it is necessary.
by UKTimmy on Sep 13, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you understand
what you’re talking about. After reading you n Tru debate I have come to that conclusion. The key was Tru’s statement: “You have offered no justifiable reason whatever that Batley should not have been hired other than the fact that he once worked for Sampson.”
If you say that Batley should not have been hired/ should be fired because of who he worked for then how does Calipari pass the sniff test when he is the king of guilt by association. The perception of impropriety is all around the program because Calipari is the HC. I just don’t follow your logic, if there is any.
I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
by bluecrip on Sep 14, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read NYCcat above.
Personally, I dont think you like me. The feeling is mutual.
by UKTimmy on Sep 14, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind ...
… that disagreements are not personal, at least not usually. Let’s not start making them personal.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guilt by association
The only point I would make is if you hire for your program based on “guilt by association”………warranted in your mind or not…………it’s called discrimination and it’s totally illegal. Nuff said………..
by slidemank on Sep 15, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you on drugs??
Discrimination is based on gender, race, religion, and age. It has absolutely nothing to do with your past employment. You can apply for a job and be denied that job based on past employment. It has absolutely nothing to do with discrimination.
by UKTimmy on Sep 15, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was the "are you on drugs..."
… comment really necessary?
Let’s try to avoid that kind of thing. You are right, of course, about the sources of illegal discrimination, but we really should try to be polite.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Sep 16, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Take BP Medicine And Aspirin Daily
So yes (in my case).
Just trying to lighten the moment…
by FortyYearCatFan on Sep 16, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I stand corrected......
sorry about that. Nevertheless I still think it’s wrong.
by slidemank on Sep 16, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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