The Big Blue Daily Mail -- UK Basketball: Who's to Blame for the Henrys?
by Glenn Logan on Jul 2, 2009 10:48 AM EDT
in Kentucky Wildcats News
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PrintThis just in -- the NCAA and the NBA are to blame for the fact that the Henrys are being so flighty and indecisive about their college choice. And if that doesn't work for you, it is the fault of the Kansas City Star for writing an article that painted the Henry family in what looks more and more like the light of the truth. I know you're shocked ... Shocked! that the Henry family is apparently blameless in this kerfuffle.
Of course, we can't blame the father of these kids for running around telling anyone who will listen about how great they are, about how they might go to Europe, or UK, or whatever. We can't blame Xavier Henry for telling anyone who will listen that he really doesn't want to deal with the whole "going to class" thing.
You know, it really makes me wonder what this world is coming to when sportswriters fall all over themselves to grind their favorite axes at the expense of reality. Why not just deal with the situation at hand, instead of coming up with ludicrous excuses that allow fingers to be pointed anywhere but where they actually belong? Bloggers are even blaming Calipari, who apparently had very little interest in seeing the Henrys shift to the more stately Blue and White.
Excuses, excuses. How about blaming those actually responsible. Just once, for the heck of it.
Now, for the news:
Top Stories
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Xavier Henry's father was always bluffing, right? - The Dagger - NCAA Hoops - Rivals.com
Another great piece by Eamonn Brennan. Be sure to follow the links, he does a good job of reconstructing this story. I do have to take issue with one point he made:
"Here's why [Kentucky can't take the Henrys]: Kentucky has one scholarship to offer, and it's clear they'd be very interested in Xavier Henry, the younger, lankier, and more talented of the two players. But that's not really how it works with the Henrys. They're a package deal.
So for Kentucky to take them both on, as Henry's father would probably demand, Kentucky would have to find a way to run off yet another scholarship player in an off-season in which they've already been heavily chided for doing so. Xavier's good and all, but isn't Kentucky talented enough already? Would John Calipari really want to get involved in that mess?"
As we all know, C.J. Henry would not require using another scholarship because he is signed with the New York Yankees to play baseball, and part of that deal requires the Yankees to pay his college expenses. Therefore a scholarship would be meaningless to him. Therefore he would walk on, just as he will walk on at Kansas.
But he goes on to make a good point that C.J. would be playing behind John Wall. But won't he be playing behind the even more accomplished, if not more talented, Sharron Collins at KU? Just askin' ... -
BB Recruiting Update - 2010 PF C.J. Leslie
My second choice for most likely to sign first for 2010. -
Meeks' 54 made good impression on Bucks | KentuckySports.com
Oh, God:
16. The Bledsoe buzz. Take this for what it's worth, but the Kentucky player getting the most raves from the summer pick-up game rumor mill is incoming freshman guard Eric Bledsoe.
That's usually the kiss of Death. Remember Lukasz Orbzut and how he was tearing it up in the summer? Josh Carrier? The list goes on and on. -
ZAGSBLOG " Kentucky Leading for Lamb
That's all you need to know. I predicted he was one of two guys I thought would be first to sign for 2010. He's now my leader in the clubhouse.
UK Basketball
- Calipari wants to see a more confident Miller | Vaught's Views
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UK Basketball: Calipari thinks ahead: WinchesterSun.com
Yes. He does. Way ahead. -
Looking At The SEC’s 10 Best Recruits. " The Pick And Roll
Money quote about John Wall:
"His outside shot is the one glaring weakness on his game. Opposing teams will already be looking to zone the DDM, and Wall isn’t really a threat to bust it. Is a one and done player."
Read the rest, there are blurbs in there about Boynton, Sindey, Cousins, John Jenkins of Vandy, Daniel Orton and more. -
Darius Miller getting it done
Miller is a smart player. Be sure to follow the links to get the whole story. -
TheBigSpur.com - SEC Hoops notebook
As with the strength of the conference, most of the coaches were asked about Calipari. Calipari built a powerhouse program at Memphis with relatively limited resources, and now moves to Kentucky, where the resources are nearly unlimited. The other coaches were not as eager to promote Calipari’s arrival as they were to tout the improved league, but Tennessee’s Pearl summed up the general feeling.
"John has raised the bar tremendously for all of us," he said. "It’s going to bring great credibility to our league, and John being in our league is going to make us all better. It’s going to be more difficult to win a championship, and it’s going to be more difficult to finish ahead of Kentucky."
I'm no lover of Bruce Pearl, but he got this one exactly right. I think the other coaches are thinking the same thing, even if they aren't saying it. -
Porter has no regrets about UK career | Vaught's Views
After being asked by Larry Vaught if he was "...treated fairly, or did Calipari force him out ...", Porter responded, "Coach Calipari was fine. I just went in one day and told him I felt like I was done playing basketball." Classy comment by a classy young man making a wise and obviously well-considered decision. He didn't need to be pushed out -- he has other fish to fry.
UK Football
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Rivals.com Preseason 120: No. 43 Kentucky
Steve Megargee of Rivals does a really good job of analyzing UK's foot ball chances this year. -
2009 Kentucky Wildcats Preview - AthlonSports.com
A really terrific preview here:
"Defensively, it looks like we’ll be an improved team over what we were last year, which was a marked improvement for us over the previous years," UK coach Rich Brooks says. "Offensively, there isn’t any question in my mind that we’ll be better than we were last year." Sounds good, coach. Here's hoping ... -
No. 8 teams Missouri, Kentucky meet in Big 12-SEC Challenge- ESPN
Interesting. Hypothetical, but interesting. - Cats add another Granger to the fold
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Carmel's Morgan, Hammes chosen as Athletes of the Year | IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star
"Morgan is the best athlete I have seen come through Carmel High School," said Carmel boys basketball coach Mark Galloway. "He was our leader in virtually every offensive category. His impact on young people will live on for many years in our community."
Oh, hell yeah! This is just what UK fans love to hear.
Other UK Sports
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UK's Agostinelli to play Davis Cup for Canada | courier-journal.com
Congratulations to Bruno Agostinelli!
NCAA Sports
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Andy Katz: Cincinnati joins UK, Arizona as recruiting winners
What a difference Lance Stephenson makes -- if he can avoid the hoosegow or being declared ineligible for his association with BornReady.tv. -
My favorite stadiums in the SEC - SEC - ESPN
Chris Low ranks UK's stadium last in the SEC. Southern Pigskin has a slightly better view. -
What vehicle do you associate with certain SEC coaches
Heh. Funny.
Other News of Interest
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Antwain Barbour Signs With Top-Level Spanish Team
Good news for Barbour. -
JCPS releases investigation into Gilpin death
JCPS says the coach did nothing wrong with respect to school policy. I think David Stengel needs to do the right thing and drop the charges. Based on this report, I think that continued pursuit by the Commonwealth's Attorney will look like pure gubernatorial politics, which I strongly suspect it was all along.
The Daily Schadenfreude
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Fan Loyalty Runs Deep In Louisville | U of L Card Game
So let's see -- in the city of Louisville, according to a 2005 Bluegrass poll, U of L can claim a whopping 57% support? And this is something to brag about? I wonder if they would even hit double digits in the rest of the state? -
College Football Predictions: 2009 Louisville Cardinals
Louisville is listed at +1,500 to win the 2009 Big East Championship. Heh. That's all you need to know.
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Comments
Woo
Erik Daniels raved about his play in summertime. I trust Erik to know what’s good and what’s not.
I think Woo would have been MUCH better off somewhere else (like Utah, also offered him a scholarship).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 2, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions
What ANOTHER Stupid Comment
You ARE consistent.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 2, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Woo was very subpar
After 4 years, Woo’s amazing #’s are- 1.5 Points per game,and 1.0 Rebounds per game.He is really good.Yikes : O
Woo Played Behind Randolph Morris
Maybe you forget that Morris was UK’s center in 2005, 2006, and 2007?
Oh.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 3, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Not In 2007
Morris was starting C for 21 (of 35) games in 2006 season.
No clue. Absolutely none.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 3, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice Aricle On Porter
Larry Vaught is the best writer in Central KY area.
Porter notes he was recruited as SG, not PG.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 2, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions
Someone take the blame?
Come on Tru, that is just too much to ask. Don’t you know that it is always someone else’s fault?
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Holy Crap..from that last link
Offense – Louisville has been "quarterback U" here lately with its last five starting QB’s moving on to the NFL.
QB U? All their QBs are riding the bench! Congrats on all those thrid stringers…….
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Well... considering that UK has zero in the NFL right now...
I’d take that.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Actually, I do not blame the kid
or his family for promoting himself….and for stating what everyone else already knows….and like it or not, the NBA and the NCAA do take some fault here. One for not doing what is right and allowing anyone who has the ability to play, and the other for allowing a kid who obviously does not want to be in college to enroll just to get his name out there. The system IS screwed up. Blame whomever you want, but it is.
The NBA has decided to get greedy, and the players have to take the hit. Now, this father is obviously no jewel, but if he is getting advice from agents or attorneys concerning how to get Xavier in the best position come draft day, God only knows what they are telling him. I would imagine the conversation to be along the lines of “this can be worth millions to Xavier”. Never underestimate what someone will do for that much money.
We have to stop kidding ourselves about college athletics folks, I feel like it is a sorry state of affairs myself, but its the inevitable truth. It is a business, and we are nothing more than interested bystanders. College athletes perform at the mercy of their coaches, schools, future draft status, and the media. It is no wonder we have kids that have way too much exposure and not enough experience to tell right from wrong. And remember that right and wrong in our book is subjective to them.
For all we know Drew Rosenhaus is orchestrating the whole thing….the kids have to take the grief, but everyone justifies it by saying theres millions at the end of the rainbow, maybe so, maybe not, but we as fans are the ones who truly get robbed. Our sport is being corrupted by lawyers, agents, businessmen, and the media. And we just stand by and watch it happen. Because there is nothing else we can do.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Greedy?
The NBA has made a business decision. They are in the business of making money, and they don’t force anyone to play for them to make a living, nor do they owe everyone the opportunity to do so. Greed is good in business, at least to the extent the greed doesn’t harm others. In this case, the NBA is harming nobody, yet everyone wants to blame them.
What we have to stop kidding ourselves about is who is responsible for what. The NBA has no responsibility to let high-school kids into the league. I would support it, but it’s totally up to them, and if they reject the idea, they are not blameworthy at all.
We have to stop kidding ourselves about college athletics folks, I feel like it is a sorry state of affairs myself, but its the inevitable truth. It is a business, and we are nothing more than interested bystanders. College athletes perform at the mercy of their coaches, schools, future draft status, and the media. It is no wonder we have kids that have way too much exposure and not enough experience to tell right from wrong. And remember that right and wrong in our book is subjective to them.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to offend, but this is just a bunch of pap. Nobody makes these kids go to school and “suffer” the depredations of college. They can always go elsewhere, as Brandon Jennings aptly demonstrated, or to the D-league, or get a job, or just wait until they are eligible for the draft and live with their folks.
Neither society nor the NBA owes these kids an easy path to riches, and to suggest that somehow others are responsible for their ridiculous behavior is absurd. Right and wrong are only subjective as a matter of degree. Society establishes many absolute boundaries, but repeatedly cycling college coaches like this (Self and Manning are the ones most impacted by this latest silliness) is not exactly ethical by any reasonable standard.
Nobody is to blame but the family for this latest nonsense. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Amen
Nobody is to blame but the family for this latest nonsense.
Carl Henry spouting off is the fault of Carl Henry.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
I agree with that
but the underlying cause is also at issue here….way more than anyone wants to admit.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
NBA rule is silly, I get that
But the NBA is not the reason for the obnoxious behavior of the Henry family.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
No, but to think that they have
no part in the process is incorrect
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
You don't hear John Wall's family acting like this
Just saying…..
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Give us all a break, would you?
While you’re at it, go ahead and lament about:
1. The loss of family get-togethers that were common when gathering around the old Victoria to listen to Andy & Amos.
2. Big ole’ business, replacing the family farm when 80% of the US population worked a plow or fed the chickens.
3. The lost opportunity to ‘smell the roses’ while riding in the horse & buggy to Sunday church.
Good grief. It’s called evolution. It’s never all good. Get over it. Enough already.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Kind Of Like How U Of L Has Evolved?
From 2 NC and 6 FF over 30 years (1972 thru 2001) to 0 NC and 1 FF over 8 years (2002 thru 2009).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ring this post up as the best non-sequitor response in the past month.
Goofy. Koo-Koo….koo-koo…..
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Dead On Reply By Me
U of L has evolved from one of the top national programs (over 30 years) to an afterthought (over 8 years).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Goofy.
Untrue.
I have a best friend who’s niece has a cousin that played in the WNBA 10 yrs ago, that told my college roommate that a well known recruit’s father of a close family friend said that it wasn’t factual.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Factual
Denny Crum is HOF coach.
Rick Pitino isn’t.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
He cudda been a contendah Joey!!!!
If he’d only stayed at UK!!!
Spitino will get into HOF jus because of his body of work…..
I took your comment 40 to mean that he wasn’t coaching at HOF standards at UL, not that he wasn’t going to make the HOF ever.
sideshow doan like being reminded of that i guess.
I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
His U Of L Nunbers
200-73 (73%) with 1 FF in 8 years. Nowhere near HOF numbers.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And 12-6 In NCAA Games Those 8 Years At Louisville
That’s 67% in NCAA, not HOF numbers at all.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe So
Crum is the more accomplished coach.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 4, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose ...
… but Pitino still has quite a bit of time left. I’m not saying Pitino is better than Crum, or worse, I’m just saying that I think Pitino is certainly headed for the Hall of Fame, eventually. And I think he deserves it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Pitino Has A Few Years Left (He's 60+)
He may make the HOF but Crum will be the more accomplished coach.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 5, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you talking about a known unknown?
Tru, do you know something that I don’t?
Is Stengel making a play for the Lt. Governor position on the ticket?
If so, that is very interesting…..
Ok, I need to make a couple of phone calls.
Heh.
I am just speculating. This is an item that is rife with political implications, and very often guys in Stengel’s position are trying to find an eventual path to the Governorship. High profile cases like this are the mother’s milk of the prosecutor’s career path. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I found it interesting enough to make a few phone calls
I thought you had some inside information that Stengel was making a play for Mongiardo’s soon to be vacated position on the ticket. It just didn’t seem to make much sense to me and didn’t jive with what I had been hearing.
In reality, I think we just have an over eager Commonwealth’s Attorney that was making sure he covered his bases.
But you never know. The gubernatorial landscape is in a lot of flux right now with everyone in a holding pattern to see what happens with Bunning.
"Blame"?
Sorry, but I’m trying to understand why there is anyone to “blame” in the Henry saga. Cutting through the 15,000 different takes on it, what it seems to come down to is this: father has a plan for his kids; kids are fortunate enough / work hard enough to have the ability to execute said plan; father gets mouthy to a reporter; blogosphere melts down; story is put to bed within 24 hours.
So what harm has transpired for which we need to assign blame? It sure drove traffic to a lot of sites and gave us something to talk about during an otherwise completely fallow (basketball) news period. Anybody die? Anybody have their life or future plans irreparably altered here?
Seems to me this is nothing more than typical teenage angst / immaturity, plus a domineering father and a desperate internet / media environment to get it all cooking. Nothing to see here, folks. . .
The King is dead! Long live the King!
by NYCCats on Jul 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good Surmising
Accurate, NYCCats, in your conclusion of blamelessness. Anytime you have the vicarious tendencies of parents added to the likelihood of a family financial windfall and years of indulgence you end with instances similar to the Henrys, the Wies, Williamses, etc., etc. All totemic of U.S. society.
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
Heh.
Well, blame is obviously being cast at the feet of the NCAA and NBA, and in my judgment, wrongly so.
Assuming there is any blame to go around (and your point that there is none is certainly fair), it should be directed at the Henry family, not at the NBA or NCAA.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
C'mon Tru....you dont think that a rule
prohibiting players from joining the NBA until they are of a certain age is to blame?..Can’t agree with you there. It not only is to blame, in the eyes of some, it constitutes illegality. The CBA for the NBA players has been used as a bargaining chip for this rule, and done so that the league can insulate itself from its own inability to judge character and talent. The NCAA doesn’t have the backbone to put its own guideline in place to counteract it (a 2-3 year rule), of course they may just be protecting themselves from legal hassles since that rule could also be called into question. This all stems from the NBA not having an economically feasible farm system. They want kids to play in the NBDL, fine. Give the kids the bonuses and guaranteed contracts that the MLB farm system players get.
Greed (on the parts of ALL parties) is at the root of this. The NCAA benefits BIGTIME by having these kids at the schools for even one year. No one wants to give up their piece of the pie.
How many extra sellouts will there be next year for John Wall & Co.? At UK tickets mean very little, since we sell out almost all games. But what about schools that dont? You think they want to fill those arenas every game?….sure they do. Here’s an example that anyone can relate to. The state tells someone that the odds of winning the lottery are 4,736,391 to 1. Then they spend millions advertising that “you can’t win if you don’t play”. I appreciate that in today’s society we are all responsible for our own actions, and that ignorance is no excuse for the kinds of things these kids do, say, or are represented as, however, giving the league and the NCAA a pass because they operate a “business” is a cop out. It’s like a drug dealer saying that they don’t force anyone to do drugs. Of course they don’t, but they sure do make it readily available, and then get the media to glamorize the lifestyle. I dont give the kids and families a pass on this, but to stick our heads in the sand and claim ignorance because its a business isnt much better.
Some of these families may have spent generations not understanding what the money and fame can do to you, but they do know that it is out there for their kid who can put the ball in the basket.
I appreciate a capitalist attitude, I own and operate my own business, and do not want any extra regulations put on me either, but the state is in my hip pocket everyday while they look over my shoulder to make sure I do everything not only legally, but ethically as well. The NCAA and the NBA can at least do the same. They have no problem telling anyone what can be done about everything else.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Dude.
C’mon Tru….you dont think that a rule prohibiting players from joining the NBA until they are of a certain age is to blame?..Can’t agree with you there. It not only is to blame, in the eyes of some, it constitutes illegality.
No. Absolutely not. Let me give yo an example.
Suppose I wanted to hire a person to help me. I decide that I only want a person with a college degree to fill that slot. That is exactly the same thing as the NBA is doing. They don’t want a high-school graduate to work for them. They want someone with more experience, so they set a criteria that is not based on a protected characteristic (i.e. race, gender, etc.). Not only that, it is set by THE PLAYERS ASSOCIATION, not the NBA management. I think that’s kind of important, don’t you?
I don’t know who you have been talking to that suggests it is illegal, but whoever it is aught to be ashamed of themselves.
All your other arguments are completely irrelevant. NOBODY is forcing these players to come to college, and if they do, they have to agree that it is fair for them to get a free ride, and in return, the university gets to reap the rewards of their playing. That’s a voluntary choice, one of many available to them, that they make. It isn’t forced on them by anyone.
Last time I checked, this society was, at least to some degree, free. We are free to chose our vocation, go to school or not, be an athlete or not, or set qualifications for our employees that are not based on legally protected characteristics. I regret that some of the families of these athletes are not wealthy, but that’s a problem for society in general, no the NBA or NFL or whatever other professional sports business might have some relevance.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
But Tru....AGE is one of those protected characteristics
No one may discriminate on the basis of age, sex or race.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
and the union's CBA is what gets them around it
but only because no one has gone to the trouble of challenging it. Ask Curt Flood how hard it was to make his case.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Not really sure ...
… how Curt Flood’s case could possibly hold any relevance to the NBA league minimum age/experience qualifications. Feel free to explain.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The Flood case represents the one thing that
these two situations have in common. The player( in this case the student-athlete) has no representation in the process.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
In what process?
Flood’s argument was that major league baseball had no right to encumber his employment elsewhere after his contract with his team was fulfilled. That does not speak to representation, and it seems a stretch to apply it to the instant case.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Not necessarlily....
the base issue was his ability to seek employment being encumbered by MLB and their collusion against their players.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Well ...
… not according to my understanding. He was free to seek employment anywhere but with another league team.
I would also point out that Flood lost, after the SCOTUS decided the case employing the principle of stare decisis, but ultimately his principle prevailed.
I still see no relevance to the instant case.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Not true.
You cannot discriminate based on age for individuals OVER the age of 40. You can discriminate all you want for people under the age of 40.
The only exeception is for programs and activities that receive federal assistance.
I'll take your word for it
Strange. But I would be curious to know if the NBA ever got federal $$$
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Hilarious.
“Ever?” As if once you got a federal dollar, you’re on the hook forever. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
At the risk of going too far toward the political ...
… I see your point. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I am sure they do
But the Act of 1975 is not designed for employment issues, that is the 1967 Act, which only protects those over 40. The 1975 Act is designed to prevent discrimination in programs like financial assistance to college, etc.
Yes.
But age is not the only criteria. Not only that, you have the whole age discrimination thing backwards. :-)
If the NBA wouldn’t let me in because of my age, they would be looking at some real trouble. But in reality, they just won’t let me in because I am not good enough, and when you turn 52, you’re sorta automatically not good enough. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I will concede the age argument, however it does not diminsh
the rest of it. I know you guys have the “hands-off” approach towards this issue, with a tilt toward personal responsibility, and I can agree with that. I will agree to disagree with your stance, and just say this, The NBA and the NCAA know exactly what they are doing. They have the “legal” right to do whatever they want. I get it. But for anyone to think that their approach to this issue is correct is in my humble opinion is a bit “near-sighted”.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
What exactly is the problem?
I guess I don’t see one. The NBA sets a rule that closes a door for a year by setting a minimum age criteria. The D-league, Europe, Japan, Saudi Arabia, and many other international leagues have doors wide open.
As far as the NCAA is concerned, what are they doing that is incorrect — reaping more benefit from the players than the cost of their scholarship justifies?
Think about this for a minute — these players are ultimately going to be making hundreds of thousands of dollars at minimum playing a sport, all while getting a completely free opportunity to obtain something millions of young kids take out tens, and even hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans just for the privilege of doing, in hopes they can make enough money with a degree to pay off that debt and somehow earn a living.
If you are offended by the social justice angle, that’s the one that you should be outraged about.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jul 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some kids will, yes.....
and the social justice angle fits with everything else as far as I am concerned, but actually Tru, you make one part of my argument for me….if they were getting a college education in the process it would be a somewhat equitable process, but we are discussing the athletes that are NOT going to get a college degree. Those kids are at the root of all of this. The hypocrisy is astounding by both institutions.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Hypocrisy?
The athletes have the opportunity to get a free education. If they elect not to do so, how is this hypocrisy on the part of the institutions? That argument is non-sequitur.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The institutions belong to the
NCAA not because they wish to, but because they have no alternative, the NCAA has a monopoly….therefore the non-sequitur statement does not apply
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
No.
No school is required to be a member of the NCAA. It is voluntary. Many schools are not.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Again, it goes back to the $$$
if they want it, they have to play the game……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
So?
Still voluntary, isn’t it? Sure it is. The end. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I know I will sound like some armchair lawyer with this but.....
The bill of rights guarantees each and every citizen the right to “the pursuit of happiness”. Now this is a stretch I know, but what if the NCAA suddenly decides that there is too much violence in college football, and decides to ban anyone under 18 from attending those games? Legal?…sure….ethical?…probably if the violence is determined to be a factor in society….but right??….and will it happen?….not as long as those under 18 attending are PAYING attendees.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
My remark would be ...
… that we used to forbid freshmen from playing sports. How is that different?
Further, in what way is the pursuit of happiness being encumbered? Is requiring a college degree for a job applicant unfairly encumbering the right of those without one to pursue happiness? Is the fact that the NBA only accepts people highly skilled at basketball into their little club and denying them access to millions unfairly encumbering their right to pursue happiness?
Just askin’ …
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The players are forced to compete
in an environment that does not compensate them equitably for their services. None of the alternatives for these kids represent the same ability to earn. And if they are hurt in the process, then they lose out entirely.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Wait ...
… are you sure about that? Forced?
I would argue that nobody is forced to do anything. The athletes are offered a scholarship in return for their services, and are forbidden from accepting any more money while competing in the NCAA. They can discontinue that arrangement any time they want, either by accepting money, leaving school, or surrendering their scholarship.
It is all quite voluntary. Nobody is forced to accept less than they are worth. Nobody holds a gun to their head and makes them attend school.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
The process IS voluntary,
but again I am back to the “pursuit of happiness” thing.
If I am the best there is at shooting a basketball, then no one should be able to tell me that I cannot go where my services would pay me best for doing it. BTW, this has been fun, and its the first time I havent had the urge to use derogatory comments at the opposing side….lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
OK.
My point is, nobody is telling them that. The NBA is telling them that their services aren’t required until they are old enough, a matter of maybe one year after high school graduation. Europe, the D-league, other countries, and McDonalds or even Chase Bank have no such restrictions. They are free to pursue happiness anywhere but the NBA, and then only for a short amount of time.
If I want to pursue happiness as a defense attorney, I am required by the State Bar to achieve a law degree, a matter of some eight years. Would you argue that they are encumbering my right to pursue happiness? If not, why not? I might be just as competent in the rules of law as any attorney, yet the Bar requires a degree against all reason, it seems. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
No, you would not be
because that would be a law. If the federal or state government wants to pass a law that you have to be a certain age to be a sports professional, then so be it, however, the people have representation when laws are passed, they do not when the NBA or NCAA arbitrarily decides to limit the rights of those who would otherwise be able to participate.
My high school civics teacher said it best…..it is the responsibilty of government to intervene when a person or persons are being singled out and discriminated against, for ANY reason, and then determine if the need to pass legislature exists.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Wait just a second ...
… are you sure it is the law, and not just the rules of the bar for each state. It may well be the law that you have to be admitted to the bar to practice law, but I doubt that there is a public law requiring anything other than admission to the bar. I’m not sure, and a perfunctory Google search gave me no clear answer.
But even if I stipulate your argument, the same could be said of companies requiring a law degree for a position, or a medical degree for a position — not necessarily as a lawyer or a doctor, but as another specialist in a related area.
In the end, it is all the same. Your high school teacher was wrong, if he in fact said that. We discriminate all the time, for lots of very good and legal reasons. We discriminate against younger people by requiring a minimum age for political office, the purest form of age discrimination you will ever see. At that is enshrined in the very Constitution I’m sure your teacher would purport to defend.
If you are committed to this position, you should be decrying the fact that an 18-year old is constitutionally forbidden for running for the Presidency, or for the senate. That is real discrimination when a class of people is forbidden from an important part of the political process by their age, don’t you think?
Also, what’s with this “must be 21 to drink” thing, anyway. Discrimination. 18 the age of majority and the right to vote? Discrimination, pure and simple — kids have rights, n’est pas?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I agree with everything you
just said….and so did he…..you have my 100% agreement about the age thing being wrong…and maybe he was just trying to get us to study and participate, but he did say that….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
OK.
I believe you. But he was mistaken, and I think it is pretty clear why.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
He made it a point
to make sure we understood that our age was the single biggest factor we would be discriminated against for the rest of our lives….none of us were african-american, jewish,indian,chinese, or any other race, so that was not a problem. He also pointed out that while we are young, we will be considered to be TOO young….and when we are old, we will be TOO old…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
All this is so, to some degree.
But in the end, it matters little. Discrimination is a part of life that we live with every day, in one form or another. It is often good in one way and bad in another, but we all have to find a way to make it irrelevant to us.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Agreed........
and on that note I’ll be lighthearted enough to let this one go, but It really was fun….lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Well, here in Kentucky
the rules for admission are somewhat codified, and can be found in Ky. St. S. Ct. R. (SCR) 2.000 – 2.550. This is likely the case in most jurisdictions.
Was this a “law” passed by the legislature? No. They are biding rules, however, and are codified, must along the same lines as the Rules of Civil Procedure, etc.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
And the NBA is telling them
their services are not “allowed”….I know its splitting hairs, but…….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
also, if I am old enough to kill my
fellow man in defense of my country, I ought to be able to play ball if I want to and get paid for it….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Really?
Well then, surely you aught to be able to smoke or drink, right? Old enough to earn a million or two, but not old enough to spend it on alcohol or tobacco?
How unfair. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Yes, but ...
… I think you miss the point. It is not unfair. It is eminently fair, and justified.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
But of course, you can.
Just not in the NBA. You gotta be 19 for that. Them’s the rules. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
To clarify further
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 only protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older from employment discrimination based on age.
Anti-Trust May Be An Issue
The argument would go something like this. The NBA and players association have a pro-basketball monopoly. The players association wants to keep high school grads out of the NBA for a year to give their members some job protection. While unions, bar associations, medical societies, CPAs and employers can set performance-related standards for job entry, the standards can’t be arbitrary.
(Police and fire departments used to maintain physical standards for initial employment that kept women out but had nothing to do with actually doing the job. Those standards were struck down.)
The success of a slew of players who went directly from HS to the association obviously shows that the delay requirement is not job performance related.
The NBA and players association can probably get by with a one-year delay for many years before anybody challenges it in court. The really good players can easily wait a year and avoid the expense and stigma of filing a lawsuit. A two-year or longer delay might draw a serious challenge.
Even if the NBA has been exempted by Congress from anti-trust enforcement, I don’t think the NBA/union would want the exemption challenged.
My own take is that if they have the ability to play, they should not be barred from playing.
I don't think they should either.
But I do not agree at all that the rule is likely to be struck down in court.
There was a time, when choices were limited, where this could have happened. I think, though, because of the relative rarity of high school players who are actually capable of being drafted into the NBA from high school, and the appearance of other viable options such as the European leagues, that the argument that the NBA’s rule is “anticompetitive” unlikely to be convincing. If the NBA were the only viable option, as in years past, I think the antitrust route would be a compelling argument. Fortunately for the NBA (and the European leagues), that is no longer the case.
Also, note that this restriction is the result of a collective bargaining agreement among the players. I think it likely, therefore, that the court would defer to that.
In a layman’s opinion, of course.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I'm Just Glad
Coach Cal did not get involved.
Who said he didn't?
But if he did, it was a very silent involvement.
do think it most likely that he simply let this ship pass quietly in the night.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
"C" Is Correct For UK FB
Objective evaluations of Cats 2009 and a C/2.0 is accurate, perhaps a bit high. I would say: Defense — B/2.6; Offense — C/1.8; Special Teams — C/2.0. Bodes for a .500 record
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
Just saw this new link Tru
http://www.sewildcatreview.com/
I clicked over there, pretty good site. Nice find.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Ok,
that’s freakin’ hilarious!
The one on the left is absolutely adorable (and it isn’t just because of the hat) and the one on the right, well……..oh, the poor thing.
Very funny.
They should have turned the cap on the Louisville kid’s hat around backwards, though. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Not backwards, Tru
just a few degrees askew one way or the other. The brim appears to be the requsite level straight for a Cards fan though.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Yeah.
I think he crusades a bit to much against Gillispie, but other than that, he is doing pretty well. I may have linked him once by now, but he is on the blogroll.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
SEWR, Surely There Has To Be A Better Title
SEWR, let’s see, does that mean the information is SEWAGE? :)
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
Yeah.
I was thinking the same thing. Well, sometimes us bloggers can be an obtuse bunch. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
They explain
about SEWR with this: “We here in the dank, dark, and slightly dangerous dungeons of SEWR (The Acronym for the site, NOT where your toilet/shower water yearns to go)”.
So, obviously SEWR was very intentional (SouthEastern Wildcat Review), and although it certainly isn’t what I would have chosen for my blog acronym, I suppose it’s one way to ensure that people don’t forget the title of your blog. I know I won’t. : )
As I say ...
… sometimes, we can be obtuse. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
You have to like
How John Wall is recruiting for UK even if he is likely a one and done…
Tru, he is stealing your vocabulary now
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=4300036&sportCat=ncb
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Schadenfreude strikes again!
Live it. Feel it. Love it. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I liked the comment
“Jodie Meeks is still open.”
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! I have a few UT fan/friends that I have to use that on!
I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
Considering that there are t-shirts being sold that claim UK owns the city of Louisville, I’ll take a 57%-33% edge.
As far as UK’s overwhelming dominance in the rest of the state, well duh. The rest of the state hates our city, although considering our enormous tax burden compared to the miniscule amount of state funds we actually get back, a simple “Thank you” would suffice.
by don'tshootmei'macard on Jul 2, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
Eh.
I don’t hate our city. I’m a Louisvillian too, you know. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I feel bad for you
I’m 20 minutes away when I’m at my home. Only a month till school starts again and I get Lex Vegas back.
by BleedinUKBlue on Jul 2, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, I find this site incredibly well-written and informative. I write the “Death Wore a Feathered Mullet” blog and was pleasantly surprised that you found my “UK t-shirt” post funny.
Don’t worry, I’m not going to come on here and start a BaFlaWa (Basketball flame war). I’ll leave that to those morons who post on the CJ site.
by don'tshootmei'macard on Jul 2, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
all points of view are welcome here card.....
just not agreed with…..lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Hey Tru.....as far as I am concerned
you are the model of an example about allowing free speech…..lol….even when you are “less than right”….lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Heh.
… "less than right" …
Moi? Never happens. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
It was a hilarious post, as is the name of the blog.
I laughed forever at that. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
"Death Wore a Feathered Mullet"
That was you?
I personally got a huge kick out of that UK t-shirt post, too (as I’m posting this, I see Tru posted that he liked it also). I remember it well, as that was probably one of the funniest things I have read in quite some time.
I found it so incredibly hilarious because it’s SO true. All you have to do is take a look at some of the recent fanposts and fanshots around here and you can clearly see that you were pretty much dead on when you labeled UK fans “the t-shirt wearingest mother@#$@$%^ on the planet.” : )
You're much much
better mannered than HozeKing (fairly long-time “contributor” here).
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
I should have said "commentor," not "contributor."
He’s a Card fan, BTW.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Miller Learning, Enjoying And Winning
Seems as though Darius is enjoying his trip to the other side of the world, has great attitude and appreciates Coach Dixon’s intensity. Last season helped him greatly.
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
Disagree About Last Season Helping Miller
Anything but.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 2, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't You Think He's A Better Judge?
Oops, forgot I was responding to the obsessed omnipotent.
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
I Don't Think So
He’s being polite to G.
His coach was a disaster in 2008-09. Miller was going to transfer elsewhere.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 2, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I Agree
Calipari said Miller needs to build confidence; Gillispie undermined his confidence.
Doubt Darius If You Wish, I Don't
Miller does think his experience last season at Kentucky when he had to come off the bench and never knew how many minutes — or when — he would play has helped him adjust to his role. "I think last year did help me with that …"
I posted to Darius’ Facebook that he’s doubted and asked that he confirm, we’ll see.
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
I don't either...
What I saw this past year was a young man growing through a difficult season. He took shots when practically everyone else was standing around looking at each other — pretty impressive of a freshman . Others may not, but I think I’ll take his words at face value and not twist them with my spin.
Miller was definitely helped by last season.
It isn’t subject to debate. It is an undeniable fact.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
In This Sense, I Agree
His soph, junior and senior years can ONLY get better.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jul 3, 2009 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Coach Has A Buzz Cut
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
Of Course It's Fake
Calipari tweeted as much but that doesn’t detract from its interest.
"The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most useful as well as the most productive source of national wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its political cares."
--Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, 27 November 1787
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