The Big Blue Daily Mail -- News for Kentucky Wildcat Fans, June 2nd 2009
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 10:38 AM EDT
in Commentary
245 comments
It's another beautiful day here in the lowcountry of South Carolina. Maybe today, I'll get my first round of golf in.
And it's yet another day in the saga of the Memphis academic cheating scandal which has generated so much comment. Today, I want to contrast a couple of articles, one by Fanhouse's Jay Mariotti and another by Laurnie Caproni of the Maysville Ledger-Independent.
The Mariotti piece is an indictment of Rose, Memphis, Calipari and Kentucky. Mariotti gets on his high horse and rides right through all four malefactors, taking no prisoners, in particular, when it comes to the Wildcats, calling Kentucky "infected":
Really think they care in Bluegrass Country if their new coach is nailed in a Memphis scandal? They just want to win, period, at any cost, which is a troubling commentary about where college sports has been and continues to be headed. You'd think there would be some measure of outrcry in all of these infected places -- Kentucky, Memphis and Chicago, where Rose's two state high-school titles could be forfeited if he and some Simeon teammates are found by the Illinois High School Association to have had grades altered.
Now, I absolutely agree with Mariotti that cheating on an SAT exam to get into college, and the grade-manipulation at Chicago's Simeon high school is disgraceful for those involved. I will also agree that Mitch Barnhart and Dr. Lee Todd should have made the Board of Trustees aware of this impending calumny, not because I think it would have made any difference in whether or not UK hired Coach Calipari, but because it looks like the right thing to have done.
But what really gets me about Mariotti's piece is his imputation of wrongdoing to Kentucky and to John Calipari. Despite the evidence that the worst Kentucky is guilty of is not considering the highly prejudicial but probatively irrelevant fact that a player Calipari coached cheated on a high-school entrance exam. In fact, that cheating was so effective, apparently, that it made it all the way through the NCAA's clearinghouse, which routinely raises questions about shady-looking entrance exams. But apparently, the player (widely assumed to be Derrick Rose), did such a good job that nobody at the NCAA Clearinghouse noticed anything wrong.
Furthermore, Mariotti takes UK to task for Barnhart's representation that he carefully vetted Calipari, citing the NCAA's comment that they gave the standard response to inquiries by UK about Calipari, telling Barnhart essentially, "Go ask the coach." What Mariotti apparently did not notice is that UK did exactly that, and Calipari was forthcoming about the pending NCAA inquiry at Memphis, providing a letter documenting that the NCAA did not consider Calipari involved in any actionable way.
The question I have is why does all this make Kentucky "infected?" Yes, UK does have a blighted history when it comes to NCAA compliance, but that blight is now 20 years in the rear-view mirror. The implication that UK should be more sensitive than other schools to the alleged dangers of hiring Calipari (a coach with a spotless NCAA record, by the way, unlike Roy Williams, for example) flies in the face of reason. Apparently, in Mariotti's world, UK should always be presumed a cheater, and "infected." I guess he is entitled to that view, even if it does conflict with the traditional American value that the accused should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise. What is even more offensive is the fact that Calipari has actually been accused of nothing except by people like Mariotti, who just can't accept the idea that he could not have known about the cheating by the Memphis player, or about Marcus Camby's shady dealings at UMass.
No, for people like Mariotti, it is guilty until proven innocent -- after all, the purity of college athletics is much too important to trust to a system that would not just consign all those with any proximity at all to a dishonest activity to the dustbin. One can only wonder why he isn't calling for R.C. Johnson and the president of Memphis to be canned, as well as all the assistant coaches -- after all, proximity is proximity, and what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. We can't take any chances with the presumption of innocence when it comes to college athletics, now can we?
Which brings me to the piece by the Ledger-Independent. Mark Story ran this editorial critical of Barnhart and containing much of the same flawed argumentation that Mariott employs, and Caproni responds thus:
"A recent story in the Lexington Herald-Leader suggested Todd had diminished himself because he is ‘carrying Calipari’s baggage.’
"Oh, really? What baggage? Has the coach committed a crime? Is he facing felony charges? Does he rob banks, run Ponzi schemes, or take part in insider trading? Has he been racing around New Circle Road on a full tank of Bud Light? Does he do weird things in the dark?
"Don’t think so.
That's refreshing, isn't it? Barnhart, at most, is guilty of withholding prejudicial but essentially irrelevant information about Calipari from the Board of Trustees. That may earn him some criticism, but in the real world, it isn't a crime -- it just puts him out there on the limb, where quite frankly, he is anyway if the Calipari hire winds up creating a fiasco. Either way, he gets held responsible, and if he had told the Board of Trustees everything, it would still be his hind-parts on the line if UK goes through another season like the last one. So what is Barnhart to do -- take a chance on a man that will deliver the UK program the kind of players it takes to rejoin the elite, or take a chance on a younger coach that may take us down the NIT road for a return engagement? Either decision has risks, but the consequences for failure are identical.
And another question for Mariotti -- If not at Kentucky, where should Calipari coach? Only at Memphis? What did they do to deserve such a bad actor? Which school would you say should hire John Calipari, a man with a spotless record at NCAA compliance? Is nobody low enough or high enough? Should Calipari be banned from NCAA basketball coaching because we just know he's dirty? We don't need proof, right Jay?
So to Mariotti and the rest of the Calipari scolds out there, I say, "Kiss off." We've had about enough of your sanctimonious smear tactics. The only thing "infected" around here is is you, pregnant with the puss of smug self-righteousness.
And now, for the news:
UK Basketball News
- Gillispie and UK should settle. Mark Story gets this exactly right, for all the right reasons.
- HoopsVibe asks, "So what if Rose cheated?" An alternative viewpoint.
- It's time for Rose to tell his story. Wouldn't it be a good idea if he were actually named as the player first?
- Danny Jett remembers Bill Keightley, and wonders "Who is gonna fill those shoes?"
- Heh. The Calipari daughters are having lots of fun with Pat Forde via Facebook. Can Jay Mariotti be their next target? (hint, hint, girls.)
- Dick Vitale defends Calipari, saying that we should let it all play out before passing judgment. Imagine that -- Dick Vitale passing along really good advice.
-
Did John Calipari know? Not if we can trust Memphis's sources.
UK Football News
- UK 2009 volleyball class ranked 13th in the nation.
Other UK Sports News
- John Clay's Big Blue Links for today.
NCAA Sports News
- College coaches get richer. This is a very thoughtful piece about the pros and cons of paying a lot of money for coaches.
- A great piece by Andy Katz regarding the one-and-done rule. It's amazing how much NCAA trouble can be traced back to this lousy idea.
Other News of Interest
- Marlene Davis of the Herald-Leader has an interesting piece on the Kentucky connections of former Minnesota Viking great Jim Marshall.
The Daily Schadenfreude
- Dookies, hoping against hope, and following the news.
0 recs |
245 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Volleyball
Honestly, I love the non-rev sports as much as the next guy or gal. I do. But do we really need rankings of volleyball recruiting classes (not criticizing the link – just saying, should such a ranking even exist)? There genuinely are people who take the time to do this? What exactly are they analyzing – parents’ home movies of their kids? Write-ups in the school paper?
It seems like some people have way too much time on their hands, but maybe that’s just me. . .
The King is dead! Long live the King!
by NYCCats on Jun 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who's gonna fill Mr. Keightley's shoes?
That’s an easy one. Nobody.
by Blueboy on Jun 2, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love remembering Mr. Bill,
and I know I always will cherish those memories. Always. I don’t agree with Danny Jett. I don’t think that his place should/could ever be filled. Ever. The University choosing not to name someone as “Equipment Manager” is an honor to his greatness. We cannot take that away. He is the greatest fan of the KY Wildcats. Is, was, forever will be. He is irreplaceable. Period. There is NEVER going to be someone who has seen all, felt all, dealt with all, and loved all, things KY Wildcats. Simply, fact……..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I loved Mr. Bill also.
But someone will have to be hired as the equipment manager sooner or later. I don’t think anyone could rival him in his role that he had for UK basketball in all aspects. He went beyond his job title.
Good luck to the next one!
by kykat51 on Jun 2, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was told at Cat Scratches
(before I came here) by Cam, that UK had no plans on ever naming an official “Equipment Manager.” It was during a live blog during one of the final games. It was very close to the 1 year anniversary of his passing. I probably can find it, maybe…
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found it, just for my sake, lol....
But reading it now, it does not say, ever. Maybe I just took it that way. It was the final game against Notre Dame..
And I would like to state, for the record, this game, and any potentially future games, be for our beloved, Mr. Wildcat, the greatest ..:-)
6:52
Cam: Of all the tributes to Mr. Wildcat, I think one of the simplest is my favorite: the team no longer has an official equipment manager, making Bill Keightley the last.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me crazy
But I feel Mariotti — who I loathe entirely — is close on this one. Even my dad is trying to act like this stuff isn’t that big of a deal, but to me it is. The fact that Todd and Barnhardt knew this was a possibility before they hired him blows my mind and it does make me question their credibility and where their hearts are at. To think the president of the university I graduated from considered a coach who allowed this to happen under his watch is disheartening. Obviously grades don’t amount to squat anymore, Todd should of just said that when it comes to Callipari.
And apparently the UK fan base feels the same. Yeah, we’re not going to have any infractions against us, but the facts are we now have a coach that will likely have both of his final fours vacated for not playing by the rules. Why even take the risk? No matter if he stays clean or not, our coach will now always be considered dirty. We can act like the elephant’s not in the room because we’re so hungry for victories and final four births, but that elephant can still crush us with our eyes open or closed.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is just wrong.
In neither case has Calipari “not played by the rules.” At the very least, get that fact straight.
When you ask, “Why take the risk,” I would ask, “What risk?” Why are people claiming Calipari has done something wrong, when he clearly has not, at least, not yet. Why are people so sure that he ever will?
You realize, of course, that Roy Williams has more NCAA violations directly attributable to him than Calipari does, right? Based on that fact, Ol’ Roy wouldn’t even be available for consideration based on yours and Mariotti’s logic. But where is the hue and cry for Williams to be banished from college basketball? Yet you and Mariotti would apparently ban Calipari for being guilty of mere proximity to violations, and give Williams a pass for actually engaging in them. This brings a whole new meaning to the term, “double standard.”
And if you wouldn’t ban him from college basketball, who would you say he is fit to coach? Is your standard just for UK, or all of college basketball? I mean, if he’s so dirty, how can any school be allowed to even consider him?
UK’s coach will only be considered dirty by people who have not the least concern for facts, but rather prefer to trust innuendo and rumor. If Calipari winds up in NCAA trouble at Kentucky, it will be for the first time ever for him, but not for UK.
So maybe John Calipari should fire us, rather than the reverse.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both sides need to listen to Dicky V
those accusing as well as those defending. let it play out…..
For 9 years, i watch Cal up close. although there was nothing proven, you always had a feeling something was just below the surface. i must admit, i prejudged him based on media reports. quite frankly, i never saw him as “UK” material – whatever the heck that means….
on a human level, he really did seem more normal – ie, not the bigger than life persona he projects. overtime, i grew comfortable with him and with his run to the final 4, finally became a fan. all along, i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and thought his detractors were unfair – but he always gave them just enough ammunition to be taken somewhat seriously.
when he has named as UK coach, i did get caught up in the drama. it has been exciting to see UK basketball relevant again. i found myself on the Cal bandwagon and clearly drinking the punch.
Tru, i am more in your corner that a man is innocent until proven guilty but i do believe that daniel81 does makes some points – points that i would have found myself making only months ago
clearly, you can see i am torn – i sincerely hope that there is no fire under the smoke – time will tell
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK...
… what points does he make that you agree with? All I want is for somebody to rationally defend his argument. In my judgment, it can’t be done without an assumption that the facts don’t support.
I’m waiting. As Forty is so fond of implying, let’s talk facts, not “feelings.” I want someone to show me a set of facts that would make an unbiased, reasonable person find Coach Calipari unfit to serve at Kentucky.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK...
first – let me say i am clearly in the “let the situation playout” corner before i criticize OR defend Cal too vigorously.
second – my conclusion is admitedly based more on “feeling” than fact – which is not necessarily fair -however, it is not necessarily wrong either
finally – the “facts” are the 9 years of having watched Cal up close at memphis. watching his players get into trouble, watching the recruits he gets, watching him take players that could not get into SEC schools, watching him demonize his critics, watching the type of people that he allows around the program and on and on.
do these facts make him guilty – absolutely not – however, they make it difficult for me to unwavingly support him until this plays out…
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru
You sound jaded, like a young child who takes his ball home when he isn’t allowed in the game.
There are facts: One final four vacated under Cal, another one likely to follow suit.
“UK’s coach will only be considered dirty by people who have not the least concern for facts, but rather prefer to trust innuendo and rumor.”
When you’re the boss, everything that happens is on your watch. Could he not tell that "redacted"’s brother was flying on the flippin plane? I think you have it so hot for coach cal that you’re writing him an excuse without even considering reason. I think that virus is plaguing a great deal of UK fans, and all I’m saying is it’s time to see through the now and think about the future, less we become the next IU.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts .. ?
One final four vacated under Cal, another one likely to follow suit.
The second part of this is not fact. That is an opinion. And one that I think is quite likely going to turn out to be shown incorrect.
How many people have made exactly this claim without actually bothering to read the evidence that is actually available? This was one of Tru’s points - the so-called journalists can’t even be bothered to read the NCAA’s statement.
The fact is that if the University had no knowledge or complicity in the academic fraud, then the NCAA will not be likely to punish it.
Memphis apparently felt confident enough that they were more than willing to keep Cal (and raise his salary). That’s another fact.
And here’s one more opinion: when you want to call someone on the carpet and detail the facts, then your case is much stronger when you are careful to avoid mixing facts and opinions.
by jeffy on Jun 2, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts
1-UMASS vacated final four
2-Star recruit Wall arrested days before signing
3-"Redacted"’s brother enjoying free rides on the Memphis plane
4-President knew about this before making the hire.
Number four upsets me the most. Hey, if you’re memphis and you want to deal with that, fine. We didn’t HAVE to have Coach Cal. He hasn’t won anything yet. Why even take the risk? You mean to tell me that if the public knew about this investigation in March, that you all would have supported the hire? My opinion, you’re full of it if you say yes.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree----
that i would have been against the hire – however, it sure is hard to admit that given we have the #1 recruiting class coming in. that being said, until a final verdict is out, i cannot say that taking such a stance against his hire (had i known about the inquiry) was the correct one…..
(as an aside – see my response to Tru asking for facts – did not do completely as jeffy recommends, but figure my 9 years of upclose watching count for something)
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I read that
And I’ve always had that feeling too, though I always believed Cal’s an excellent coach too. I’m just pissed that all of this happened.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too --- (pissed that is)
maybe its good that this happened now – puts everyone on notice so that it does not happen at UK.
hopefully, that is the silver lining……
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you know
Taunting fans of other teams is half the enjoyment of sports, but when your rival can respond to you by asking if coach cal flipped a ticket for Wall’s brother to get to the game, it’s not as fun.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Flipped a ticket?"
Good grief, man. You are completely over the edge.
Fact: Calpiari had nothing to to with Wall’s situation.
Fact: Calipari had nothing to do with Camby’s situation.
Fact until proven otherwise: Calipari had nothing to do, and no knowledge of, the alleged NCAA violation at Memphis.
Fact: Calipari has never been found to have been culpable in any violation of NCAA rules.
Fact: Rick Pitino was directly linked to more NCAA rules violations at Hawaii than Calipari has over his entire career, and was hired immediately after UK was placed on NCAA probation in spite of those sanctions.
Your argument isn’t just flawed, it is indefensible, at least by logic. That is also a fact.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think Coach Cal has interests in all 4 facts?
daniel, get real…He told Wall to get cited? Heh. I guess anyone coming from Chicago is in trouble too, regarding this Rose thing. Even the big guy’s. All facts are not listed. That is a joke…..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well ...
You don’t seem to mind jumbling lots of things into the same argument.
Let me start at #4 and work backwards a bit.
Then #2 is completely irrelevant, since John Wall was signed AFTER the hire of Calipari. Correct? Also, the fact is that Wall was not arrested. Go back and check a (reputable) report. He was given a citation. Never arrested.
- … well, let’s just assume that Memphis is supposed to have someone on staff who handles billing for such expenses. Perhaps the person did not pay; perhaps there was an accounting error. It could easily be explained by any number of circumstances.
Now, back to #4 (which seems to be getting you steamed at the moment): the president of the University of Memphis who was fully aware of the NCAA inquiry was confident enough in the University’s position that he was more than willing to attempt to create a bidding war for Calipari’s services.
Seems that in that case, the president of UK didn’t go beyond the pale in opting for Calipari.
by jeffy on Jun 2, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They already had him
We didn’t need him. He hasn’t won a game yet for us. As for number one, perhaps you shouldn’t be allowing family members to ride on private jets meant for the team in the first place. But I guess since Cal was the coach, he just set in a dark corner of the plane and fiddled away at his dry erase board the entire trip.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem wasn't Coach Cal's with the plane
It was with the clerk who was supposed to accept payment from the passenger. From what I understand, its all been chalked up as a clerical error. There is no violation in letting someone ride the plane and I don’t think Coach Cal is the guy running the register.
If Cal told someone at Memphis, “Hey, don’t charge this guy for the ride” then I think you have a fair point.
Again, I’ll make the comment that I used in the other thread towards you… you posted a lot during the season, I haven’t seen you during “lovefest” of the last few weeks and now you come out of the woodwork at the first sniff of controversy. Shameful IMO.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it was his brother Reggie, then..
…you have to understand that he or his family cannot afford a $2600 round trip flight. That opens up another area of concern.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually according to UofM he had
either already paid for or reimbursed them for several trips….so where do you get that he could not pay??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you have to understand where they live for one.
It’s well known here in Chicago that he comes from a good family of brothers but they are hardly financially stable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englewood,_Illinois
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...the NCAA rules say that Rose cannot accept $$$
from an agent. They do not say that his brother cannot be employed by an agency…..I know this is all just a means to an end, but it what is left when the kids have no way of receiving anything directly….the rules leave it all up to thier own interpretation….and make my point for me. Everyone knows they didnt want another family member getting the $$$, but thats exactly what ends up happening
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to Calipari's 'gray area'....kind of dark, isn't it?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have not been paying attention...
Cal not in the gray area….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NCAA Stated In Black and White
That Calipari was not being implemented in any charges. The “gray area” comes from those who would like to put one around a program they do not like. They create gray by dis-regarding the facts and repeating opinions untill people believe them to be factual.
by LyricSmith on Jun 2, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You believe about anything
You’re told, huh?
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was meant
For Chirop’s earlier statement about the plane
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll accept it at face value since there will be no proof that Cal told them not to pay
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
So we don’t know one way or the other if Cal is full of crap or if he’s telling the truth, same thing as in UMASS. I guess all we have to judge him by is his recruits…Camby….er, not that one…Rose…er, not that one either…Wall…I forget, you guys already had that statement marked down too…hmmm. I don’t know, just have a bad feeling about all this.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
judging him by his recruits?
Can his winning percentages be excluded, and his involvement is the community also be excluded? His wife was volunteering to tutor? Oh wait for it……..he didn’t know that until after the fact. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh those should definitely be included
But none of those would keep UK from probation, which is my main concern. Not Cal, I could really care less at this point. I think he’s a great coach and recruiter, but i don’t think his methods are above the board. I think if he stays he’ll win championships, and it will be great, but i don’t know that they will be legit ones.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What???? legit???
Oh, Ye of little faith…Sandy Bell will make sure of it. Guarantee that…Especially with the naysayers that are emerging.
Gosh, this is ridiculous…
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name something that is "below board"
We hired someone in Jamaal Magloire’s camp as an assistant under Pitino IIRC.
Daniel Orton’s dad was paid to lecture at Gillispie’s camp.
Tubby found the “immaculate fax” for Randolph Morris.
Jason Parker was suddenly found to be eligible after a review of his transcript.
Are any of those things against NCAA rules? Of course not. Are they all “above board”? I think by your definition they are not.
I don’t want to call names here, but I think naive would be an apt description of your outlook on things in this situation.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...you can't name anything 'below board'.
That’s why they are grouped under the category of ‘below board’….you can’t see them. Just sayin’.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wall wasnt arrested he was cited.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jun 3, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daniel
you are forgetting one thing, these penalties are the result of an antiquated system that is applied as the NCAA sees fit. There are no set guidelines or set penalties for these things, it is entirely based upon how the committee feels about who they are reprimanding at the time the incident happens. And furthermore, if anyone had paid any attention to the articles that have been posted for the last few days, they would see that this incident is looking more and more like the problem is in chicago or with the NCAA clearinghouse themselves. The NCAA is NEVER…..let me repeat that…..NEVER going to accept responsibility in this case although it appears more and more everyday like THEY are the culprit here, not Calipari or Uof M. This was all done in Chicago, not in Memphis, and took place BEFORE he even enrolled at the UofM.
The list of coaches that have had their names dragged through the mud is a long and sometimes justified one, however, there are people on there simply because they are part of the system.Personally, I think we should go to Indianapolis and demand they make EVERY piece of this investigation public so that we can get over this and move on. But that isnt going to happen either…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to add in,
and I’m not reopening this debate, but it was daniel 81 that argued vehemently weeks ago against recruiting/signing John Wall.
I think his standards/ethics/morals are a bit higher than most. That’s fine, and he’s entitled to his opinion, but you’re not going to sway him no matter the logic.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Jun 2, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are asking the impossible
The only way the Rose fiasco could have been avoided would be to send someone from Memphis to verify the player and to proctor the exam. ACT tests are given nationwide on the same day so you’re asking universities to send personnel to every location where a recruit is taking a test. For instance, if a school is currently pursuing 25 players (across multiple years) then they need to send personnel to all sites where a recruit is taking a test. Some players take the test multiple times so now the expenses just escalate.
This responsibility falls at the feet of the player and NCAA, universities do not and will not have the resources to prevent type of action. The losers will always be the coach and program.
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right hobo,
I think the NCAA is saying that they, or their clearing house, cleared a player to play, and then in May or whenever, said, guess what? WE were wrong. WE may have made a misteak. (Misspelled on purpose) lol
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tell you what you can do
Start recruiting players with class, instead of ones that skip it. Quit recruiting players that get arrested three days before they sign with your university. Look into their morals as much as you do their jumpshot. Quit trusting your assistants to make judgment calls when the outcome will determine your reputation/future. And that’s just a start.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trying to ignore this.....
trying…..still trying…..I cannot……so……LOL……I tried so hard. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trying to ignore daniel81 or the sitiuation at hand?
hopefully, you were joking about trying to ignore the situation at hand (which i would like to as well).
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no i was trying to ignore his reply
to me
I tell you what you can do
As for ignoring the situation, I have to agree with Dic Vitale. article here.
“That is a rumor, rumor, rumor. It all has to play out and Memphis will hear the charges against them from the NCAA investigation.”
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
got it --
was taking everything way too serious.
i, too, find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Vitale….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you determine which players have "class" and morals?
Do they have to come from good neighborhoods? Do you have the background checked of every person they’ve had contact with all their life? Do they need a certain number of hours of community service? Do they have to be baptized?
You say don’t use the assistants to make judgement calls. Who is going to determine which players have class? God is pretty busy.
According to your proposal if a player doesn’t have “class” then he is banned from playing college ball. Will this also be applied to football, baseball, swimming, etc.? This seems like a great way to limit the future of many promising kids that are in less than ideal situations.
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really??
so in your business, you make zero judgements about someone’s character when you hire them? you are a better person than i. afraid i am a bit of a hypocrite – i do try to make some judgement about a potential hire (But am glad not everything about my youth was available to any potential employer!)
One of the things i will defend Cal on is his ability to give kids brought up in tough situations a second chance. he had done a better job on this issue than i would have…which may mean he is a better judge of morals than I
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF you follow the law
you leave all that stuff at the door memphis….lol….now….if we could just all REALLY do that, maybe we miss out on some really talented people to work for us???
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Police records, grades and recomendations
Are very much public record and relevant when it comes to making a hire/signing a recruit.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhhh....but some of those are facts of record
they should be interpreted as hiring guidelines state….letters of recommendation are not worth the paper they are printed on, unless they come from a source that you personally know and trust, and grades are only relevant if they are applicable and they have merit as to the position….if not, they dont.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I think what Memphis is saying
Is that you can get insight from people who know the person and can tell you what kind of morals they really have, good or bad, and you can use that for making a determination.
When you’re talking about basketball and the guidelines players are supposed to follow in college, all of those signs will give you a pretty good feel of what to expect.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure....but dont kid yourself
on some of these kids….they are surrounded by the wrong people a lot of the time due to circumstances….some of which they do not control…doesnt make them bad kids….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh, excuse me daniel, but didn't the NCAA give the "all clear"
for him to play for Memphis in the first place? So now what? Just because a couple of recruits haven’t been cleared academically here, as of yet, should we err on the side of caution if they are cleared to play? And say well, we are not going to let you play, the NCAA says you have the “all clear”?
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, I think I'd at least proceed with caution.
But I guess I’m just from the old school where college athletics still included being able to spell your name right.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, you are implying a hell of alot here.
It is alleged that a player that went to Memphis cheated on his SAT. The NCAA has not proven that, nor have the charged Memphis with playing a player that cheated on his SAT. The letter is of inquiry, meaning that they have heard stories and are looking for evidence. You have taken that allegation and have run to the point of saying coach recruits players that can spell their name nor do they go to class. Other than your “feelings”, have you got anything to back up these outrageous comments?
by wklawdog on Jun 2, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should say "can't spell his name"
Grammar alert.
by wklawdog on Jun 2, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his "feelings" apparently lawdog
put college athletics on the low scale, as far as being able to spell. Thus making law school an impossible place for mispellers to preform. His implications are rather ridiculous..LOL
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wall arrested, cousins and bledsoe barely qualify
Derrick Redacted Rose, well, nuff said…I hope I don’t have to mention any other examples, because hopefully they’ll be no more.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have become
a complete bore.
You don’t seem to have any interest in a logical discussion or debate. I’ve already attempted to correct you once on the “arrest” issue. Let me say it again.
WALL WAS NOT ARRESTED.
Does that make him a Eagle scout? Of course not. But by choosing to deliberately use phrases aimed at evoking emotional responses, you show your real purpose.
You seem to want to rant and vent and display your emotions. That’s fine. I’d be happy if you’d choose another venue; there are plenty of sites where such “debating” is the norm.
by jeffy on Jun 2, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pshaw
Your name is Daniel81… which implies to me that you are the same age as my brother. (Forgive me if I’m wrong.)
Trust me… there were plenty of guys going to school in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s who could barely spell their own name. There are tons of books written on it.
You are living with rose colored glasses on my friend.
Hell… Scott Padgett scored something like a 9 on his first ACT he took if I’m not mistaken.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What difference does that make?
Wrong is wrong, period.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Kentucky has never been "right" in your lifetime
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so that makes it right...
really???
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Think Daniel "ate one"
is trying to get or goats … by presenting a meaningless argument more aimed at taunting than trying to prove anything or present a logical discussion/
by ukcris on Jun 2, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument
Is logical. Let’s review the rest of the board’s:
the blame belongs to the high school, the NCAA, memphis, cal’s assistants, the media( aka the biggest cop out ever) and everyone else but the man being paid millions to watch over every detail of a program. Hmm. Of course inside our heart of hearts, we know we would feel differently if this was happening to say Louisville.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree -- sort of
the biggest cop out is that defining who and what is moral is messy so lets just not do it…….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Police records of kids who are generally under 18 are public record?
Really? Hmph. I’ll be damned.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be damned
Because they are. Must have been listening to those voices that be again…
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't go down to the court house and get records on minors
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! When did they become public?
I have been a prosecutor for over 10 years and they have not been public during my entire career. Must have happened today.
by wklawdog on Jun 3, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well gee
why dont we start a completely new system while we are at it. The NCAA and the NBA knew EXACTLY what was going to happen when they started this free-for-all……and they still did it just to keep their public personas perceived as legitimately concerned about the young athletes they run roughshod over. Here is a little hint daniel, you CANNOT LEGISLATE MORALITY…..and I dont care who you are….you do not have the right to sit and judge these kids for trying to make a system that is outdated and bent against them work. Part of going to college is developing some character…..and maybe some of these kids will…..because the low-lifes that hang on to them like leeches as they rise in their sport sure wont help them develop any….and that includes the NCAA and the NBA. They treat them like cattle….when they get out of line….hit them in the backside with an electric prod….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Living in a bad neighborhood
Doesn’t mean you don’t have class. And I don’t care where you come from, there are ample programs, tutors and means to get a passing score on a SAT or make decent high school grades.
I feel the scenario building: The great coach Cal, loves the disadvantaged so much that he doesn’t pay attention to the warning signs because he wants them to have a shot in college. Of course they have to be a five-star athlete, the disadvantaged that can’t shoot a jumpshot don’t really deserve it, right?
None of us will really know what Cal knew. A NCAA investigation and its “facts” don’t amount to a whole lot to me. But when your name keeps getting thrown in circles of impropriety, I don’t know, seems like there has to be something under the surface we don’t know about.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your last line covers it
“WE DONT KNOW”…how about we wait until we actually do?….and maybe some of those “pompous windbags” we call reporters could wait too….hmmmm??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So which of this year's recruits do not have enough "class" for you, Daniel?
by wklawdog on Jun 2, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have to wait....
because “time will tell”. How are other supposed to decide now that the kids have the “class” you so adamantly require?
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If you are making a few mill a year, should you really have to wait for the NCAA to figure it out?
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't have it both ways.
You want to crucify the coach for bringing in recruits that don’t have enough “class” yet you say that we have to wait for the season to develop to determine who doesn’t have the requisite “class”. That is a pretty lame argument. If you think someone that has been recruited should not be coming to UK, then say it now and be on the record as opposed to sitting back and seeing if someone screws up and then saying I told you so. The coaches have to make their call without the benefit of knowing the future, why don’t you man up and do the same.
by wklawdog on Jun 3, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The coaches can make their call
After hours upon hours of time with the player, his family and his coaches and teachers if they really want to do the research. The casual fan does not have that opportunity. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Thanks for trying though.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God he wasn't our player, but....
(just for grins) would Laettner have been considered a recruit with class?
by hoboat33 on Jun 3, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'd be considered dead
If I ever caught up with him…
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha hobo...:-)
and daniel, you better hope he remains alive now….hahaha
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 3, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we should have cut Gerald Fitch and Erik Daniels early in their careers, right?
Or maybe Ron Mercer never should have gotten a scholarship?
You’re treading an awfully thin line.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you're right.
But I’m probably wrong as to me, character trumps talent of about any kind. But like I said, that’s just me.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is a thin line --
but is that an excuse for not trying to stay on the right side of it?
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dicky V has absolutely placed me in total shock.....
While it is very surprising to me, that he is yelling of rumors, rumors, rumors to Coach Cal’s bashers, I think the most surprising thing is that I am going to have to, as hard as it is to do it, agree with him….oh my, oh my….what is going to happen now ?…..LOL
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariotti
This is the same Jay Mariotti who attempted to write a preseason preview of the Cincinnati Bengals after visiting training camp, but wound up devoting half the article to an all-out trashing of Georgetown, because he couldn’t get totally wasted fast enough. I would put the link, but Foxsports made him take it down and issue a weak apology. Tru is also on the money about the assistants, since they often have more contact with recruits than the head coach.
The real issue to me is not Rose’s grades (that seems to be a Chicago problem), but the paying of Rose’s brother. This practice is all-too-common and impossible to enforce. And Jay, there is significant outcry in the Chicago area because the grade scandal was not limited to Rose, which supports the theory that Memphis was not involved in that.
by doldham on Jun 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was Jay Glazer from Foxsports
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
by btcoop71 on Jun 2, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He trashed Georgetown and Lexington because...
…it was around midnight on a Sunday night and he couldn’t believe that no one was still serving his drunk ass.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
by btcoop71 on Jun 2, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The alcohol serving laws in Lexington for a Sunday are rather archaic and were more archaic before the lift of the ban in ‘07 but this isn’t something a major sports writer should be devoting a column to.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by trich on Jun 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mariotti is the one
Who had the job at the Chicago Tribune and then burned all his bridges with the newspaper industry and couldn’t get hired on anywhere else until he landed with some backwoods internet site.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he had signed an extended contract with the Sun-Times right before he resigned.
He should have been credited to foresee not only the Sun-Times demise, but the printed media as well. It was a great decision by him.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mariotti
Tool of all Tools. I din’t bother reading his article, because I refuse to give him the web hits. I’d read Goodman 24 hours a day over this clown.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
by btcoop71 on Jun 2, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
din't = didn't
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
by btcoop71 on Jun 2, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
do not watch around the horn either……..
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Him and Woody Paige
All the reasons you need not to watch that show.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
by btcoop71 on Jun 2, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct - woody is worse -
but at least woody knows he is a dork – mariotti looks down his nose at woody – imagine that…..
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In case somoene missed Tru's link
to John Clay’s BBL for today, here is a link to an interview with Jeff Shephard. Last fall in Mt. Sterling at Court Days, I had the honor of finally meeting Jeff in person. He is a super friendly guy, and an exceptionally nice person. Needless to ask, but what do you think everyone got from me for Christmas? 15.INC, sound familiar? They were all very pleased, too….LOL
Just for the sake of it, I looked it up. This is interesting. His business address is 115 Commonwealth Dr., his phone and fax number’s both have #15 in them. I would not doubt that his children may have been born on the 15th, haha…
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well the stench around our program ended twenty years ago but it lasted twice throughout Rupp’s regime and ended with that package. We can’t deny our long record of NCAA violations and our own shady history through the local legend and myth of Kentucky basketball. This is all well-deserved, we have received the death penalty twice and numerous other sordid and various allegations dating back to black and white photos and short shorts.
This is well deserved – we were cheaters, we had players embroiled in point shaving scandals, various allegations of money handshakes, and packages filled with money “bursting” open. This is Kentucky athletics, like it or not but I think we should just all embrace what Tru said a few weeks ago and embrace the hate and the stench of our program. We are Kentucky.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by trich on Jun 2, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well said
and i guess you hit what is my main point -
we are UK, with a past that i do not want to repeat. however, we have zealous fans and while that is great, it can lead to problems, especially with a coach that is willing to push the envelope
we just need to embrace who we are (good and bad) and make sure that we do not go back to those inglorious days of old but rather rise to the glorious days of old……
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question........
Does anyone else find it as curious as I that this whole Memphis scandal story just happened to go public right on the heels of Cal landing the nation’s #1 recruiting class?
by slidemank on Jun 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HEHEHE
yeah….that one just seemed to slip by everyone didnt it??….its like Tru keep saying….Embrace the Hate….because this is just the tip of the iceburg…..everything we do for the rest of our lifetimes will be scrutinized like never before
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calipari's Insightful Remark
“It’s the price you pay for the space you occupy.”
Perhaps he knew it, perhaps he didn’t but that personal observation surely applies to UK. The “Envy our past. Fear our future” T-shirt is more true regarding outsider response than was ever envisaged. UK doesn’t occupy the space at the pinnacle of college basketball just yet but the base camp has been established and the assault will soon begin. Prepare yourself and remember the line from Tom Jones
"Some folks rail against other folks, because other folks have what some folks would be glad of."
"[T]he opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their, own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 11 September 1804
by Wild Weasel on Jun 2, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember this little tidbit folks
Jesus Christ himself couldnt have avoided an NCAA investigation if they decided to do one…..because they do anything they d*** well please, because there is no one to police them…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way.....the NCAA is announcing later this week that they
have launched an investigation into ASOB for their policies on blogging concerning the treatment of student-athletes……………:-0
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'll fully cooperate, of course
:-)
I heard I am to be accused of failure to monitor. But they don’t call me “Teflon Tru” for nothing … :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you mind picking up the charge for my next charter flight?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll let forty testify on behalf of ASOB
They’ll run away screaming and pulling their hair out. (At least , that’s what happens to me ,-))
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OOOOOOHHHHH.....baffle them with statistics.....thats what we need
confuse them with the truth and let the chips fall where they may…..yeah baby!!!
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
And understand, I’m not saying Cal is not at fault. We know he’s a great salesman with the school, fans, and recruits. Is it possible he knew about Rose and/or his brother’s free ride? Sure it is. Has he been implicated? Nope, just as he wasn’t with the Camby affair. All we really know for sure is he has not been found guilty of any wrong doing in either case. The only thing we can really do is trust our legal compliance department will keep things squeaky clean at UK……………and I have faith they will.
ABC……………….couldn’t have said it better concerning the NCAA and their “investigations”.
by slidemank on Jun 2, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"The only thing "infected" around here is is you,......
….pregnant with the puss of smug self-righteousness."
Tru you are a wordsmith of the highest calling!!
by cpacat on Jun 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed that comment
Because the only smug self-righteousness I’ve observed is the author thinking we should ignore every sign just because the fire hasn’t consumed us yet.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any smug self-righteousness you notice around this
situation is generated in Indianapolis…..comes under the heading NCAA…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The author always says
to ignore rumors, daniel. He always has said that. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine.
But he isn’t God, and a lot of this isn’t rumors. There’s much to be answered by Todd and Barnhardt.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All you need to do ...
… is look in the mirror, pal.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru -=---
i read this blog and this blog only because – even when i do not agree with you, i believe you put forth good arguments.
however, if you are going to take such a strong stance, you have to know someone is going to take the other side. that is healthy and that is what eventually brings the truth to light..
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey ...
… I’m fine with that. But he made what I consider to be an attack. I have never referred to him as smug or self-righteous, and I am unquestionably neither in the context of the above article. It was provocative, and I responded in kind.
Nobody has to agree with me, but don’t come in here with attitude and act like you can smack me down and not expect a tart reply. You want to reason? We can reason. But I don’t respond well to attacks. In fact, I can get real ugly, real fast. That’s the nature of the beast.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody said
The smug and self righteous bit, wasn’t me
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
But I was neither smug nor self righteous. Your comment was gratuitous and inflammatory, and that had better stop. I hope I am clear about that.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 3, 2009 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What attack?
I made a response and you reacted like dick Cheney which is cool, that just shows you agree more than you care to admit
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree at all.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 3, 2009 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Pal your hypocrisy doesn’t even make it out of the post. One second you are screaming about facts, then below you are saying how you know the board would still have hired cal even if they were told the whole truth. Where are your facts on that one? Come on man, stick to your guns besides when it serves your purpose.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
#1, you apparently have no idea what the word “hypocrisy” means. Look it up.
Second, I didn’t say anything about “knowing,” what I said was that it is pretty much self-evident given the boards lack of public outcry to cover their behinds. That’s pretty obvious.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 3, 2009 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
I make a claim based on facts: two program two investigations. You made yours based on nobody saying anything, like I’m sure the board is going to go public at this time. You want me to continue to provide facts, but you apparently didn’t think it important for Todd and Barnhardt to tell all the facts to the board.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and Al Capone went to jail
For tax evasion.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon, Tru.
…not because I think it would have made any difference in whether or not UK hired Coach Calipari, but because it looks like the right thing to have done.
…is guilty of withholding prejudicial but essentially irrelevant information about Calipari from the Board of Trustees.
First, it begs the question on why would Barnhardt/Todd choose to keep the information from the board knowing it would look bad? Why keep this information quiet if it wouldn’t have made a difference?
Secondly, the streets are full of ex-employees that have decided to keep information from their superiors. Face it…B&H pulled a fast one on the board and alums. Shame on them.
Daniel, good for you.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Hoze
If I am Barnhart or Todd….and I tell the trustees that Memphis is being investigated, but Calipari has a letter stating that it has nothing to do with him, that it would have made a difference to them?…you guys really are living in a dreamworld….the trustees got their man…..the same one they wanted last time and Barnhart tried to do an end run on them with Gillispie….stop kidding yourselves….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not Barnhart or Todd's job to assume what the board would do...
…it’s their job to share with the board and to let the board make the decision whether to hire Calipari or to defer the decision directly back to B&H. They purposely kept the board ignorant….that is bad. Period.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know that for a fact
that they told the trustees nothing??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what you mean by 'nothing'.
But it’s my understanding that B&T both knew of the letter but didn’t share this information with the board. I could be mistaken.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I am asking, did they tell the board anything??
or did they omit what they didnt want them to know, or did they deliberately mislead them in some manner?….or do we know
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoze, I have a question.
I agree with you that B & T should have told the trustees about the letter to Memphis and their discussion with Calipari. I suppose they viewed it as irrelevant, or wanted it to be viewed that way by all others when it can’t be viewed that way. My question is different though. Assuming that they told the board of the letter and that it alleges no wrongdoing against Calipari and that he is in the clear (according to the NCAA’s letter), do you think the board would have voted differently that they did? Furthermore, do you think that the letter should have made them vote differently?
by wklawdog on Jun 2, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
However, I suspect the board would have gone looking for someone else. Why? Two reasons, they made that decision two years ago and I really don’t think UK needs to take a risk with someone like Cal. As bad as the last couple of years had been, I just don’t think UK is that desperate. Now maybe Barnhart & Todd were a little desperate which may speak to their decision not to be that forthcoming to the board…
After further contemplation, I hold Calipari under less criticism. I’m starting to agree with most on this board in that the press should lay off somewhat on Cal. However…..the issue remains for UK in this regard. I don’t think it is fair to say that Calipari is a cheat, but I think it is more than fair and accurate to take the position that he ‘runs a loose ship’. If I had to be cynical and predict a bad outcome, it may not be too much of a reach to conclude that the money and fanaticism around UK supporters combined with Cal’s ‘leadership’ (or lack thereof), will ultimately result in NCAA issues.
Now I understand they have Sandy there, but she can only do so much. I have been extremely complimentary to her in the past and to UK in general in operating a clean program. I think it is a shame for fans and the administration to appreciate this and to use it to rationalize a more risky pick as coach.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll meet you part way there on the "loose ship" bit
But I think you have to understand that any top flight recruit is going to have questions around them. (Or maybe its just top recruits named Derrick? Character… Rose…)
Kentucky fans are a confusing bunch even to me. For 10 years we whined and cried that Tubby Smith wasn’t getting us the kinds of recruits we needed to compete with the UNC’s and Dukes of the world. (I would argue that Kentucky has rarely had those kinds of recruiting classes with any consistency.) Calipari comes in and signs one of the top classes in the history of college ball and now we “run a loose ship” and are witnessing the end of days because Kentucky may have a one and done player.
We can’t have it both ways.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheeesh...it doesn't have to be either/or.
There were plenty of less risky options for UK out there. That’s the beauty of being one of the top programs…isn’t it?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were there?
Izzo was a favorite of many… but I’m convinced he would have turned us down. Even if he took the job, the continuation of a “Big 10 style” of basketball would have been a major sticking point for many fans. IMO
Where else do you look for a “top candidate”?
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I liked Izzo too but, I doubt he will ever leave the Spartans … I just think he is kind of entrenched there since he’s been there so long. Kind of like trying to get coach K to leave Duke (well almost) I’m not sure any other coach really could have done what Cal has done to this point.
by ukcris on Jun 2, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Izzo was born and bred in Michigan, and he has elevated MSU as high or higher than Donovan has Florida. Why would he leave?
The answer — he wouldn’t.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a quote in the HL
from Mira Ball to the effect that she and the board were not aware of any pending investigation at Memphis.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mira Ball, the chairwoman of the UK Board of Trustees who enthusiastically endorsed Calipari’s hiring, said she wasn’t aware of the NCAA investigation and wants “to know all the facts” before commenting.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just want to make sure the board isnt just
covering their backside too……seems like everyone else around the NCAA always does….guess its a good thing to get in the habit of doing with them. You know what really is pathetic in this mess is, the NCAA has the ability to update its rulebook,bring it into the 21st century and stop putting everyone else’s tail in a crack, but they have no intention of letting that happen, because they would lose some measure of control over this whole mess….University presidents need to get together and pull out of the NCAA as a whole until they get their act together….or force the NCAA into making the necessary changes to allow for either removing the University from this SAT process altogether, or changing the penalties one.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
University presidents need to get together and pull out of the NCAA as a whole until they get their act together
…and this will never happen because…
Athletic conferences receive annual payments from the NCAA’s central basketball fund of more than $140 million based on the number of games their teams participate in during the NCAA tournament over a six-year rolling period.
The NCAA serves as a de facto Union for the sole purpose of collectively bargaining media contracts that make it’s members rich. There is way more to lose by rocking that boat than they ever stand to gain from taking strong action about how arbitrarily they act.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then buy a NEW boat
forget rocking the thing…..sell it, junk it, or sink it for all I care…..the NCAA doesnt have ANY money unless they receive it from the TV contracts or licensing agreements from the UNIVERSITIES…..without them, they dont get squat….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please...spare us.
To quote Pogo….’we’ve met the enemy and it’s us.’
I just don’t get why you are all sideways about the NCAA. I get the feeling that you think it is some sort of police state that is run by…heck, I don’t even know.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have watched the NCAA pick and choose who
gets the brunt of their wrath for the last 30 years. I have seen some who deserved it, and some who were not even close. We deserved what we got under Sutton, and I only feel that way because I knew a few people near the program at that point that said it was the “way business was done”. They offered no excuses and seemed to be surprised that everyone was shocked at what happened. The rules that govern this type of thing have had no major changes in decades. Unfortunately this is not the case at the High School level. They have made it possible for almost any kid to compete ay any level and they justify it by saying that the kids need the “opportunities”. Ever watch the movie “Coach Carter”?…the High Schools want the kids to make college so they can trumpet their accomplishments from the rafters, and the kids end up with a diploma that they cannot read. The NCAA cares no more for these kids than they do for their pets….all they want is that steady stream of $$$ coming in. You’re a joke in a bad comedy Hoze if you think that this is about anything other than the almighty dollar……that doesnt make the NCAA a police state….it makes them a corrupt guard at a prison where anything can be had for a price….just make sure you pay the piper so he plays YOUR tune.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are expecting perfection...
…then I respectfully suggest that you are living the bad comedy. I don’t think they would say they’re perfect. I wouldn’t suggest they are perfect.
But to suggest they ‘decide on who gets the wrath’….that’s a little too paranoid for me. I understand that aluminum foil makes for fine looking hats.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you can stand the interference you get
in your brain from all of those radio waves you pick up while wearing one Hoze….ask Duke if they think they should have been penalized for their little indescretion….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It always comes back to Duke, doesn't it?
Too funny.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just Duke
they just have a habit of sticking in my mind for some reason…..its a blue thing I’m sure you wouldnt understand….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Follow the $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Follow the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, Follow the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$….can you hear that in the background???….its the sound of the truth in your ear….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the ship goes down
it will be because the NCAA destroys itself. This current one-and-done rule is certainly not helping them. Every rule they make in an attempt to preserve “amateurism” (read: preserve higher revenues for union members) only makes them more open to scandal, because every law that you can’t enforce will be broken when there is big money at stake.
It is awfully easy to sit on high and say that the whole thing stinks, and it ought to be blown up and restarted, but that’s ignorant of the reality we live in. To say that schools will suddenly see the error of the NCAA’s ways, and rise up and create a new utopian Amateur-state is beyond ridiculous.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one & done was a David Stern idea, right?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did David Stern care?
That was a move done to appease the NCAA and the absurd notion that College Basketball was doomed if we didn’t get to see the future stars play college ball for a year.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so...it was NBA driven.
Ask the kid who played in Italy this past year. The NBA rules states that kid’s can’t play right out of high school. It’s up to them (and the universities) if they will go to college or to somewhere else like the pros overseas.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
I do remember reading that Stern supported getting a more polished player, rather than large rookie contracts going to more Olowokandi’s.
by Ontherocks on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
....and I don't mean to imply that I support the one & done. I don't.
They should be able to sign at 18 yrs old for all I care.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple, Hoze.
It’s irrelevant because the board of trustees would not have refused to hire him, even if they knew it.
How much kicking and screaming do you hear from the Board of Trustees over this? Crickets? Exactly.
Barnhart and Todd put themselves out there on a limb by keeping this from the Board. That’s fine by me — they have to worry about what happens if it all comes down around their ears. But another bad hire, and that would have happened anyway. Even a good hire that didn’t turn the program around quickly would have been the end for Barnhart, that’s for sure.
As I say, irrelevant.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow....
It’s irrelevant because the board of trustees would not have refused to hire him, even if they knew it.
…I really respect your opinion but holy cow. I can only conclude that you have a seat on the board of trustees and were part….oh wait….they didn’t get a chance to neither agree or refuse hire with that information. They didn’t even see or hear of it.
A good board of trustees will not publicly disagree with a president after the decision is made….not in academia, nor business, nor your local church. That would be cutting the proverbial legs right out from underneath the president. The sound of crickets speak to nothing.
I have rarely seen you so outright positive about speculation. What gives? Maybe you should shake that water out of your ears. :)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… the biggest reason I feel so sure is the lack of outrage. Does it not seem logical to you that if the Board were truly likely to have rejected Calipari on the news of the Memphis conundrum that there would have been numerous board members covering their behinds in the press by now?
I think the crickets we hear from that quarter is validation of my opinion. I could be wrong, of course. I await a lucid counter-argument.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conjecture.
Give me one example, of any board at any time, vocally disagree with the decision of a president that answers to them. You can’t do it. It doesn’t happen. I can’t prove a negative. That’s not the way ‘it works’. Board meetings are private…board members don’t speak up to cover their behinds.
I suggest when you give an opinion with such confidence, you should know a at least a little about the issue.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 3, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… The board of trustees of most state universities are “public agencies,” UK included. The meetings are not private and are subject to the Open Records Act.
Maybe you should know something about your subject before you opine with such confidence.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 3, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For example:
Here’s one……and pretty interesting stuff.
by hoboat33 on Jun 3, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you that. My statement was too strong in regards to public institutions.
Yes, minutes are of course, public. However, the minutes are mostly formal following parlimentary rules. Any disagreement by the board would not be made or expressed within these guidelines.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 4, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
137 W And 14 L (2006-07-08-09)
UK had 84 W and 52 L in 2006-07-08-09.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 2, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
:) Nice one Forty!
I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
by bluecrip on Jun 3, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many of those
Will stick though? Not to mention Memphis basically had 16 wins given to them a year during that time frame.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots Of Them
Recent UK coaches (excluding Gillispie) do 5% to 8% better at UK than elsewhere.
Calipari averaged 76% elsewhere so I expect he’ll win 80% to 85% of his UK games.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 free wins?
You mean in the same conference where Pitino’s Louisville team went:
8-8
11-5
9-7
14-2
?
Is that the conference you say was handing out free wins? Listen… C-USA isn’t on par with the Big East or the ACC or even the moribund SEC of last season, but going undefeated in any conference is a worthy accomplishment. Why? Because you generally get talent consummate to the conference you play in. Mark Gottfried put together top rated recruiting classes every year at Bama (and then didn’t do anything with them… but that’s another story) but he sure wasn’t getting that kind of talent at Murray State in the OVC. Gonzaga doesn’t go undefeated in the WCC and Creighton doesn’t go undefeated in the MVC.
Was Memphis head and shoulders above C-USA? Sure. How did they get there? Coach Calipari.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 3, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mt. St. Mary's and Gonzaga
Were better than anybody in the SEC last year. Outside of UAB, none of the teams Memphis played would have broken .500 in the SEC even last year.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Way St. Mary's or Gonzaga was better than LSU last season.
by blue oregon on Jun 3, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I think either would have beaten LSU on a neutral court.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
by jeffy on Jun 3, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a fact?
I should have got you to sit in on my ACT.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did The Board Want To Know?
It’s a stretch — a big s – t – r – e – t – c – h — but no more than some of the others made here and in various media, but isn’t it within the realm of possibility that the Board of Trustees having established the end didn’t want to know the means, and so instructed the administration?
"[T]he opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their, own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 11 September 1804
by Wild Weasel on Jun 2, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's stupid.
Hiring a guy whose program is already being investigated, just like the one where he coached before. Dumb. That’s all I can say.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was not implicated
at UMass, also the NCAA sent a letter to UK stating that they do not consider Calipari to be involved at Memphis. How is that bad daniel, or a DUMB idea?
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not worth the risk or possible embarrasment
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
The embarrasment that you refer to is him being associated with Memphis and their situation at the present, which is a long way from any type of sanctions. The upside is annual top 5 rankings and title contenders on a yearly basis. With nothing from the NCAA saying Calipari is being looked at for any problems, why would you not make that call?
by wklawdog on Jun 3, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then I guess we should
give up everything we accomplished under Rupp too eh?….I guess that makes everyone who ever called Rupp a racist potentate correct??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So not recruiting black players for no apparent reason
Makes you a civil rights activist?
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, since neither you nor I
were there to know what the “no apparent reason” would have been, we should just assume he was right? Let’s assume the worst is right and to hell with what really happened??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NCAA
The NCAA is the most corrupt non-government organization in the world that does not have the word “Olympic” in its name.
by UKCat on Jun 2, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That goes without saying in its long track record but they are the ruling body and the beast must be appeased.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by trich on Jun 2, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what if this all goes away... does the "stench" still follow Coach Cal?
Because Memphis says they found no proof that a player cheated.
So here’s my question for some of you… if the NCAA has no real proof that an unnamed player cheated, will you still consider Calipari to be damaged goods? It sure sounds like it. You’re already saying he is without proof. What if this all becomes a big deal about nothing? Will you just slink away for three months until some other minor blip shows up?
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good find chirop1
there is also a link there for the entire (pdf) Memphis’ response to the NCAA. I am sure someone here can understand it better than I. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should stay coach
Because there aren’t foolproof allegations. But I still say this should have been vetted either by UK or Calipari before he was hired. It’s busch league to let UK fans find out about this from ESPN when they knew all along.
And here’s a question for you. If in three years we’re cutting down NCAA Banners from the rafters, will you just slink away too?
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
But I’ll certainly admit that I was wrong.
I liked Billy Gillispie when he was hired too. Started to feel iffy about him and then was impressed with the heart of the team during the 2008 conference schedule. Gradually became more and more wary, and then eventually was on the fence about another year or not.
I admit today that the warning signs should have been there early. But it could have just as easily gone the other way.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you should look at the warning signs now.
Just sayin’.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe ...
… we should just start laughing at the naysayers and hoping for the best.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, just like with the former coaching situation. That certainly remains an option.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Jun 2, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Classic defense...
bring up the past and ignore the question…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Jun 2, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… to be fair, there was no real question, at least not on my part. He just resorted to his usual strawman. That’s not new.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, that was a joke...
just repeating what HozeQueen had posted on a previous thread
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Jun 2, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So basically
You just go with the mainstream flow? Sorry, but I can’t listen to that reasoning.
by daniel81 on Jun 2, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I give people the benefit of the doubt until I see that they don’t deserve it.
Its a lonely life you lead when people have to earn your respect before you give it to them.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 2, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rumor Is False
I’m not daniel81’s twin.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 2, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HaHa Forty....
:-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope everyone is OKAY....
for you out of townees, things sort of just stopped in this discussion. We had a little storm go through. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now Hear This!!!
If ANYONE can prove to me that Calipari had anything to do with this situation I will hereby withdraw any and all defensive statements I have made on his behalf. If ANYONE can prove to me that the UofM had anything to do with this, I will withdraw my statements on their defense….so far no one has proved squat to me on ANY of this…..unless you want to hassle Barnhart and Todd….for that all I can say is if they did anything wrong I am sure they will hear about it from the Board….otherwise….everyone might as well buck up and get over it.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
calm down ABC... :-)
We will be okay….
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
frassarassin sassafrassin rassafrassin.....
sonofa……lol……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Jun 2, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the deal.....
When KY had to rise from near the bottom, there where no message boards. How did we do it? UK hired that other Italian guy. Did he do it alone? NO.. UK had it’s players, most were KY boys that stuck around. But the talk still went on. Just not on a grand scale like this. What did KY do after probation? WE WON…Twice, almost thrice. Guess what, we still have those championships. No ONE took them away….
We will be okay……
:-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey I actually downloaded the PDF file.
That is where I have been for over an hour. Seems to me the biggie is the women’s golf team and UM investigated that thoroughly and did in fact find infractions and fired that coach.
As far as ….UM had notice since sometime in 2007 from the CPS that his grade may have been altered and they investigated it. Seems to me the University did a great job in complying with everything that entered the equation regarding the women’s golf team and the men’s basketball team. …. was cleared by the NCAA and that is what colleges go by. If the NCAA made a mistake, why bring it back on UM after the season was over?
by kykat51 on Jun 2, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you kykat51
Sounds like it is going as we thought it would. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me add....Please,
someone read my comment way up there about Jeff Sheppard. He is a really nice guy. :-)
We will be okay…..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not worth debating daniel81
As I said above, it’s not worth debating him on any issue of ethics/morals, etc. See below from earlier discussion about Wall.
I mean this as no offense to d81, he is fully entitled to his opinion and world view, but to those (myself included) who get so frustrated by his black and white view of the world that they want to tear their hair out, below is the discussion I had with him a few weeks ago that nearly made me head butt my computer screen. If you have blood pressure issues, just take a deep breath and walk away. . .just walk away. . .
http://www.aseaofblue.com/2009/5/7/867882/morning-newspaper-for-may-7th-2009
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Jun 2, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wise advice,,,blbskue
When he replied to my comment…“I tell you what you can do”…. I really tried to ignore him. It worked for a few minutes. Then he would not cease, so……well, you know…LOL
:-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus the final straw was when he attacked "our author"
Then it could not be helped…….
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never really knew there was a gray area
Of ethics. Seems most people know right and wrong, well that is until you throw their favorite sports team into the mix. Then the gray reveals itself…
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, You Neglected Politics ...
… the consummate gray area.
"[T]he opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their, own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 11 September 1804
by Wild Weasel on Jun 3, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please bow your heads...
Lord, please let us begin the season now so that we can put this vitriol behind us and concentrate on the sport of basketball. We want to discuss DDMO vs zone, player performance, wins/losses, rankings, strategies, successes, hopes and deeds not the gray areas, legalese, innuendo and rumor.
We know we are not perfect, we know our coaches are not perfect, we know other coaches are not perfect and you know the NCAA is far from perfect. We simply ask to play some ball and put the offseason of tirade behind us. AMEN.
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I will give that an AMEN. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, hobo......
I agreed with something you commented on is where (he) told me what I could do. So technically, Can I blame you for that? LOL
;-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you can't blame me
I’m already married and that would be piling on.
by hoboat33 on Jun 2, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well.....okay then :-)
LOL….Just wondered if I could blame you..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure who put this together, but I use it to motivate (81Dan ... you still in there??)
“This is the beginning of a new day. I have been given this day to use as I will. I can waste it …or use it for good. But what I do today is important, becasue I am exchanging a day of my life for it! When tomorrow comes, this day will be gone forever, leaving in it’s place something that I have traded for it. I want it to be gain and not loss; good and not evil, success and not failure; in order that I shall not regret the price that I have paid for it. I will give 100% of myself just for today, for in life you will never fail when you do what is right, do what is fair, and do your best consistently ….”
by ukcris on Jun 2, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that.
Where did it come from?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Jun 3, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it too....
saw it somewhere once before..???
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 3, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I do my best every day
And that includes thinking things through, not just jumping on a bandwagon and going with the flow.
by daniel81 on Jun 3, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you advocating:
1. The ENTIRE UK fansbase demand that UK fire Calipari?
AND
2. The ENTIRE UK fanbase demand that Wall’s scholarship be pulled?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Jun 3, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess this is called piling on....
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11813089
Dozier went to Memphis over UGA because of concerns over SAT score….Gary Parrish piling on……….
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on Jun 2, 2009 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
I kind of laughed at that.
Dozier graduated from Memphis. I think that ends all debate about whether or not he was qualified to attend, and really, where is the “there” in that article? That Memphis has lower standards and is less careful than a school just trying to recover from probation.
Who’d a thunk that? :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TRU!
Tue, I’m going to give you credit for saying Todd and Barnhart should have informed the board about Cal and the Memphis situation. You do know that me agreeing with you will cause your loyalities, citizenship and right to belong to the human race to be placed in question.
I just wonder if Ol’ Barnhart measured more carefully this time to make sure it was the right ‘fit’.
by TheParisGuy on Jun 2, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a human ...
… I’m an arthropod. :-)
Barnhart’s career at UK will live or die by this hire, and he knows that full well. He is out on the limb as far as he can go. It won’t take more than a pruning saw to send him to his doom.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 2, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those of you like me, an arthropod is
Reference.com, arthropoda…. LOL
:-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Jun 2, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Ultimate Thick Skin
"[T]he opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their, own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 11 September 1804
by Wild Weasel on Jun 2, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it Tru.
Be an arthropod forever :-)
by kykat51 on Jun 2, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
[UPDATED 3/31/2009]
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
