Noon Newspaper May 4th, 2009
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 12:21 PM EDT
in News
136 comments
The John Wall recruiting saga took a really shocking turn today, as Wall has apparently been charged with a crime -- breaking and entering.
Bluegrass State Basketball has the story, and there is, according to him, more to this than has been reported so far. Hopefully, the "more" is favorable to Wall. For more reading on this subject, here is The Sporting News' story, and here is the WTVD report in Raleigh-Durham. There seem to be very few details at the moment, and the charge is only a misdemeanor and Wall was not actually arrested.
Fanhouse claims that Roy Williams and Coach K will now no longer be interested, but the Coach Calipari still will, claiming his intent was "not to indict" UK or "the Wildcat boosters who so desperately want a star point guard." First of all, why is it the "consensus" that Calipari will still be interested and nobody else will? The author doesn't attempt to explain that, and just allows the reader to assume that Calipari is fine with taking kids with "a past," (to be fair, his past indicates that he is), or that Coach K isn't (Roy Williams backed off Wall weeks ago), or that UK has no other viable options. And is he saying that UK fans are so desperate for a point guard that we would offer a scholarship to a good player regardless of their legal status? What a crock.
The facts of the case have yet to emerge, and the charge may well wind up being dropped. It isn't as if the kid broke into an occupied home with an AK-47 and started shooting up the place. The Fanhouse article is typical of why journalist so revile bloggers -- it is fact-challenged, reporting that Wall went to NC Central when Adam Zagoria reported earlier that meeting didn't happen, and the Fanhouse article goes on to suggest the reason for that aborted visit was "eligibility issues," which is another item not in evidence.
Before everyone panics and starts deciding that Wall is trouble, let's step back and wait for the facts to emerge. As Dave Telep of Scout.com told USA today, "[This] doesn't feel right. This may have been nothing more than a youthful prank, a case of mistaken identity, or simple guilt by association. I'm not encouraged by the news, but I also think we should not be rushing to judgment.
Now, for the rest of the news.
UK Basketball News
- Some interesting observations about the player who has the attention of UK fans captivated at the moment.
- I don't think this blogger is a UK or John Calipari fan. Interesting post, though.
- Wall did not go to his planned N.C. Central visit, according to Adam Zagoria.
- Nice piece by BBallSophist at True Blue Kentucky.
- The new NCAA rule makes bad choices easier, and other links this morning via John Clay.
- UK on the final list of 12 for Harrison Barnes. Barnes is really a good player that would reload us for 2010. Not only that, he is a smart kid.
- Chris Fisher has some weekend stuff over at Kentucky Ink.
UK Football News
- Fidler back in the quarterback race.
Other UK Sports News
- UK Softball loses to South Carolina on Sunday.
- Bat Cats keep their SEC tournament hopes alive with a huge series win over the Tennessee Volunteers on Sunday.
NCAA Sports News
- Mississippi State gets a commitment from John Riek. Rick Stansbury gets an A+ for his recruiting effort at MSU this year.
Other News of Interest
- An interesting story about Scout.com's Dave Telep.
- Facebook groups versus the NCAA. This is going to become a problem the first time a public university takes action beyond a threat against someone on Facebook. The NCAA, as a private entity can set rules and enforce them without fear of First Amendment ramifications. But it seems to me that requiring public universities to enforce NCAA rules is a much trickier problem and could give rise to a legitimate claim under the First Amendment.
So far, the matter hasn't come to legal blows, but it will eventually. Things like this always do. For my money, the best thing to do is to politely ask people to help the university comply with the rules without resorting to the stick of a cease and desist letter. Most of these kids are just fans of university sports programs and would gladly comply rather than put their favorite team at risk, if asked nicely. - An alternative view of the Sonny Vaccaro/Jeremy Tyler situation.
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A really great piece BBallSophist
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, thank you very much.
I was proud of it when I wrote it, and then I read it again 3 hours later and hated it.
I’m never happy with my writing. Glad you liked it, though. Thanks to Tru for linking it.
by BBallSophist on May 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are welcome
I totally understand what you mean, though I question my writing of one sentence a lot…..lol
Like now, do I hit post or cancel .. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a2, some good perspective there
It’s funny, as I recall a lot of the things that are being written about Wall during the recruiting process were said about Patterson during his. I think that one turned out okay.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
by JLeverenz on May 4, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow Truzenzuzex
It’s official: the attempt to legitimize Calipari recruits and marginalize wrong-doing has officially begun. “It isn’t as if the kid broke into an occupied home with an AK-47 and started shooting up the place.” I bet you wouldn’t have believed that you had that take in your arsenal a year ago. And I don’t think you would have wanted to have it either. This is a very interesting precedent to set on ASOB when talking about very talented, very questionable young adults. I guess we can take comfort in knowing that if he does become a Wildcat and makes Lexington his home, he’ll only have one year to terrorize the town before he’s off to the Association. Seems like a pretty weak 365 day gamble to me.
by Zakem2002 on May 4, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
So far, Wall has been accused of entering a vacant house. That’s it. Not vandalizing, not stealing, not doing drugs, not drinking. That’s not a very big deal.
What is your point, Zakem? UK should never consider a recruit who has done something wrong, no matter how not serious that transgression is? So, if a recuit violates the traffic laws and gets a speeding ticket, UK should turn away?
I don’t see Tru setting any precedent.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on May 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean like Derrick Caracter?
Envy our past......Fear our future
by btcoop71 on May 4, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the world of Better Safe than Sorry.
It’s a great place to reside. One doesn’t have to spend time justifying or twist one’s back rationalizing. No risk analysis required.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
I just have a few words for that comment. “No balls, no blue chips.”
And I have always wondered if we are really better off “safe than sorry.” Too often, it seems, we abandon too many closely-held principles when we apply that as a rule, like “everyone deserves a second chance,” and "innocent until proven guilty [a legal concept, I know, but one we all would prefer if we were under suspicion], “don’t rush to judgment,” and many, many others that most (probably even you) would espouse faith in. Of course, those of us who fancy that they have never made a mistake that might require someone to do a little risk analysis can take comfort in our perfection, and look down long noses at everyone else.
Is that really playing it safe? Or perhaps just snap judgment by another name? Who need the truth, right? Abandon kids at the first hint of trouble, that the HozeKing way. Fortunately, it isn’t Rick Pitino or John Calipari’s way. Nor was it Adolph Rupp’s way, if I recall correctly.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, let's do it for the kids.
Second chances are always easier for a much needed 5 star point guard.
That’s one small excetion for a recruit, one large step on the slippery slope. Good luck.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Said the guy who's team gave Derrick Caracter 3498349389483 chances
Envy our past......Fear our future
by btcoop71 on May 4, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, the 'criminal' didn't go to class or work out very hard.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live ...
… to hear you lecture me about slippery slopes. It is so very droll. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I'll blame the 5 months of unbelievable winter weather up here.
I think the ice on my driveway only melted two weeks ago.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Hoze....I believe I remember Jules Camara
getting his second chance after being nailed for a DUI during his stay in Lexington…..Gerald Fitch and someone else getting caught underage and cited for alcohol violations during their stay….none of which is a 5-star recruit….all of which turned out to be good kids….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 5, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
There have been a number of UK kids over the last 15-20 years who have had brushes with the law, but went on to become productive players/citizens.
Daniels is another — Tried to enter a nightclub with a fake ID, along with another player.
JP Blevins underage drinking on campus. Ran from the police (on foot).
LeRon Ellis — Arrested for felony bad play. Well, I guess that’s different :)
by Ken Howlett on May 5, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valid point but different.
A player has already committed to a university and the university has a higher commitment to the player. Wall or any other recruit is different in that they are still ‘outside’ the university and therefore, can be and should be held under a stricter standard.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 5, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what IS the standard?
you tell me where you think the line should be drawn….if we rule out all players who have ever had skirmishes with the law….( and I mean court documented, not arrests that have been thrown out) then 75% of the players that have gone through the NCAA in the last 10 years in basketball and football would never have been brought into college.Throw in the players that have been arrested and charges dropped, or cases dismissed, and the number goes up by another 10-15%….c’mon Hoze….I got cited for trespassing ( 20$ fine, payable to the officer….lol) when I was 16 for being “parked” in a car with a girl at the local park after hours…..you want those cases thrown in too??
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what is YOUR standard?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 7, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MY standard is that I don't assume guilt until
it is proven, then I handle it on a case by case basis with the input of the AD and University president. If all three agree, then everyone else can sit back and wait for the day they can say I told you so…..If it is proven that a player committed a crime, then let the severity of the crime dictate the response….no theft, battery,rape or anything attached to those types of crimes may apply…unfortunately this has to be a school decision, because the NCAA is more worried about where a kid gets a car from than if they have a record.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 8, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… it kind of matters, doesn’t it? The severity and nature of the alleged crime, that is? I mean, should Kentucky back off every recruit with a misdemeanor on his record? How about the ones who skip Sunday school occasionally?
I think it would be fair to wait and see if Wall is really “questionable,” don’t you? No?
Why am I not surprised?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru
although i am in your camp, i sort of see where Zakem is coming from – and to a certain extend Hoze
living in memphis, i found myself rolling my eyes at the second chances that Cal seemed to give not only his players but his recruits. Now, with Cal as my coach, i seem to be taking a bit of a more open minded approach.
i do believe that it is a slippery slope and that we do well to at least take note of those whose call attention to it and remain civil about it. however, Cal’s record of giving guys a second chance does extend past just the much needed 5 star PG – and he does have a decent record of being right……
only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team
by memphis wildcat on May 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dumb post… no evidence of wall doing anything other than breaking into a empty house, kids do that all the time… not that big of a deal, ur just another miserable
by hummer11092 on May 4, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Wall future quote -
“I could have gone to the college of my choice, except I went into a vacant house that wasn’t locked”. Sounds a little extreme to me.
by hoboat33 on May 4, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Wall is a kid.....
nothing more nothing less….when it comes to how he behaves and should be treated….with no record….and this being a citation, and not an arrest…..this disappears….didn’t Tubby take a kid in with this almost EXACT same scenario a few years ago?
We here at Kentucky DO have a history of working with kids that have had problems (minor, admittedly), so if this is as it seems on the surface, a prank, or something non-malicious in nature….work with it…..if not….let him go….
If this were a DUI ticket the kid got, we would be sending him to counseling and welcoming him with open arms so he understood that you do get a second chance here.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And by the way EVERYONE....
try not to write anything that gets quoted in SI or on ESPN that you dont know to be the TRUTH here in this case…..a young man’s future hangs in the balance….let’s not start the rumormill running at full speed until this thing is sorted out.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eric Bledsoe
I live in Birmingham, AL (where Bledsoe plays HS ball) and they just announced on AL.com that Bledsoe is having a press conference on Wednesday to announce where he will play college ball. It is between UK and Memphis and the article stated that his HS coach said he already knows where he is going and will tell his coach when he gets back in town (he visited UK and Memphis this weekend according to the article). Hopefully we will get the nod on this one.
by ukcory on May 4, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't anyone else
went into an old abandoned barn or house? There is usually nothing in them. There are no valuables in there. Most of them do not have doors or windows. How do you make a forced entry like that? We don’t know all the details as of now. I “visited” a few in my younger days. We were only looking for ghosts. No harm meant and no harm done. Usually the owners would watch us and laugh. Let’s wait and see on this.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The article said there was no "forced entry" didn't it?
by ukcory on May 4, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is what is says
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It did.
It also said that Wall was not arrested, merely cited. Kind of like you might get cited for jaywalking.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also said.
He was cited. Caught ‘red-handed’ by an officer. And the house was a private residence. I am sure it was nothing though….
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
Each of the three was issued a citation on a misdemeanor charge of breaking and entering, said Wake County chief magistrate Gary Wills.
The citation is similar to one issued for a traffic violation, Wills said. “You can be cited for a misdemeanor breaking and entering,” he said. No warrant was executed.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1512888.html
The house was a private residence which was on the market and unoccupied. “Nothing?” Well, maybe not “nothing,” but not much. That’s why the citation was for a misdemeanor.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe one should wonder what he was doing out of school at 12:30 pm on a Monday.
Maybe nothing was taken because the house was unoccupied waiting to be sold. Maybe one should wonder why in the world would someone break into a house (it was breaking & entering) in an empty house.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See below
I think the “why” is answered below.
by Strangeite on May 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Exploring vacant and derelict properties"?
It was a new house waiting to be sold…only briefly occupied at one time, the way I understand it. Furthermore, it was in broad daylight on a Monday around noon. Isn’t he a student that should be in school at that time.
Sorry, I don’t see a lot of answers…..only questions at this point.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on May 4, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Senior
He’s a senior in high school. There are plenty of reasons for him to be out of school at that time. I only went to school half a day my last year of high school.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on May 4, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry....we were on the same thought path.. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Hoze
I think we all agree he should have been in school. We cannot disagree on that. Last I noticed, kids still stage Senior lay-out days every now and then. I know, poor excuse. But it happens everywhere. He could have only had a half day too.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Broad daylight"
Yeah, perfect time for criminal activity by hooligans, delinquents and ne’er-do-wells. Get real, it’s a kid being a kid, running around with his friends for probably one of the last times. In the next few weeks his childhood will be behind him.
by hoboat33 on May 4, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that ...
… that Pitino used the house to terrorize Karen Sypher.
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the one...
with the pit in the basement?
The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.
by jbt36 on May 4, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way you could have known that ...
… is if you dug the pit :)
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It rubs the lotion on its skin...
The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.
by jbt36 on May 4, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Abandoned House
I would just wonder what was going on inside the abandoned house. I would assume he was up to something that he couldnt or shouldnt have been doing inside an occupied house.
I’m sorry, guys, but I just have a sinking feeling that this is where we are headed. First it’s, “So what? Its just breaking into an abandoned house.” Then what? I hate to agree with this whole slippery-slope thing, but I kind of do. I think that – at best – this makes me question John Wall’s maturity, responsibility, and decision-making. At worst – it makes me worry that this is the new type of Kentucky player.
Maybe its still that I feel like Billy was treated so poorly and am having a hard time getting past that, but I just will not put blinders on and pretend that I think that this whole situation is a-ok. John Wall’s recruitment saga alone is enough to make me think (IMO) that he believes himself to be above others, and not just in talent alone. I just dont want this type of thing to become our regular MO.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 4, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slippery slopes
I have always thought the “slippery slope” cliche is overused – it pre-supposes an inability to get off that slope when you cross the line. In some cases, that is true. But in many others, one questionable action does not inevitably lead to disaster. Tread carefully, but ultimately do what is right in each individual case – and what is “right” may be different in different circumstances.
To counter one cliche with another – consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
The King is dead! Long live the King!
by NYCCats on May 4, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just you
I’m also mildly concerned about this, and would probably think it was a bigger deal if it were another team’s recruit. I can admit both. I’ll definitely wait for all the facts to come out, but even if nothing was vandalized, stolen, smoked, or potentially impregnated, I still see it as a lapse in a kid’s judgment. If a place is locked and you don’t have a key, that should indicate that maybe you shouldn’t be there. Harmless? Maybe. Bad idea? Probably, especially if you’re a top basketball recruit.
Is it the exception or the rule? I don’t know, but it does give me pause. If it’s a one-time thing, I don’t think we should stop recruiting him (nor would it if he were a 3-star swingman, BTW). But if it turned out to be a trend in Coach Cal’s recruits, I’d definitely be disappointed. I don’t think that makes me any less of a fan, not that anyone is necessarily saying I am. Bottom line, Tink; don’t feel alone on this one.
by Acdixon on May 4, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks :)
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't bother me at all
Glass houses people, glass houses.
Hell, god help me if some of the stupid stuff I did as a teenager got out to my boss. Nothing bad, but embarrassing nonetheless.
Give the kid a break, he wasn’t robbing people at gun point, or doing coke, he was looking for a quiet place to hang out with his friends. Yes it was not the best place to do so, but this is teenage logic. I challenge most people to honestly say that they have never committed a misdemeanor.
One other thing to note, this kid is more mature than people give him credit. Think of how gifted he is physically. I would be willing to bet that he would have no problem outrunning a couple of cops, especially if jumping a few fences was involved. But he was smart enough to know he was caught, and mature enough to take his lumps, rather than being full of bravado and trying to run.
by aidanpryde18 on May 5, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is
Things are changing. You cannot do things you could before. A judge in a KY Co last year had to issue a judgment against a guy for letting kids ride in the back of a pick-up. I was there and heard it. (Had to take someone else of course.) He said he loved riding in the back of his father’s truck as a kid, but seat-belts were a law. And added, I really hate to do this but things are different now………..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My point is
If we drop our interest in Wall because he did a little urbex, then we are idiots.
by Strangeite on May 4, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am on your side
Sorry if you didn’t see it that way.. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem
I was just using your comment to further explain that this an activity done by people other than criminals.
by Strangeite on May 4, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a criminal
I haven’t even had so much as a parking citation…..knock on wood…. :-)
So let’s all not jump the issue. The details, so far, suggest he was merely being a kid.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh Oh
When I was a teenager growing up in a suburban neighborhood, my friends and I would spend hours going into dozens of houses that were either vacant or under construction. We never vandalized the properties or stole anything, but at the time, it seemed such a thrill walking around the structures.
Do a quick google search, their are hundred of web pages devoted people exploring vacant and derelict properties. It is called “Urban Exploring”.
by Strangeite on May 4, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Same here.
We did similar things when I was a kid. Foolish, yes. Criminal, well, no.
I have a hard time getting exercised at someone else for doing something I did that was this trivial. That isn’t the definition of hypocrisy, but it is a failure of empathy and understanding.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 4, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Urban Exploring".
I have a real hard time believing that a high school senior that just happens to be the hottest recruit out there was just enjoying the thrill of exploring abandoned houses.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 4, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Urban Exploring is bad KG.....
Try Rural exploring….lol…..we call it…..“snipe hunting” ….lol….kid’s games….everybody relax and let this thing play out….otherwise we will be waiting for a blonde woman in a badly colored dress to do an interview on a TV station that is scared to air it because it may all be a lot of “bull”…….lol….I can hear it now…..
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ABC, smipe-hunting?
Does anyone really fall for that anymore?…lol… I never did. I think you had to have paper bags, too. Hard to find paper anymore. Maybe snipe-hunting will bring them back.. :-)
I’m sorry everyone, but as it is now, this is not a big deal. Unless your name is John Wall. The media has brought out other things that made me question his character, at times. I’ll admit it, I was or am concerned about them too. But until, and if, other things are brought out concerning this situation, this is not really a big deal. I raised 2 teenagers in the not so distant past. They turned out just fine. Kids are going to be kids.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
entering a home that is not yours without a key or permission is at best questionable behavior.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Questionable, yes Tink
But everyone on this earth has to learn from their own mistakes. In rare cases, kids can sometimes learn from others’ mistakes. But mostly we have to learn from our own. Some mistakes are good lessons learned. Some not so smart, but still lessons learned. The one who will learn the most from this is John Wall. IMO
If this were to happen again, then I would start to wonder, what now? The report said there was no forced entry and nothing was reported missing. That is all we know for now. It very well could be all there is to it. We will have to see. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how do we know that
someone with him didnt say the house belonged to a relative…or a friend….For all we know he may have been told that the house belonged to someone he was standing right beside…..this is all a “tempest in a teacup” as it used to be called…..quoting the general from “Good Morning Vietnam” when he was confronted with Robin Williams making a joke about Richard Nixon….“I laughed my a** off and I consider the man a close personal friend”….
Relax folks….it’s just basketball….not brain surgery…
Anyone ever spray painted a name on a water tower????….geez……
Better example,has anyone ever had to go apologize to someone else’s parents or a neighbor for doing a stunt that seemed funny at the time, but didn’t turn out that way??
Used to be you paid for the broken window and apologized…..and these kids didnt even break a window….
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Questionable? Indeed.
Naughty and quite frankly, against the law. But on par, I think, with jaywalking, speeding and disturbing the peace. Or playing a couple of holes on a nearby country club golf course you aren’t a member of, or going skinny-dipping in their pool.
These are minor transgressions that we pay a fine for and forget about. I think this little prank is the same kind of thing.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
when people were concerned about Patterson having attitude problems when he body checked a ref to the floor during a game his senior year.
Obviously that turned out ok.
It’s too bad that you’ve never had to admit to doing something stupid Tink, it might have given you a little perspective in this situation.
Billy G had two DUI’s in Texas, no one seems to worry too much about those.
by aidanpryde18 on May 5, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
It was Mayo who was accused of knocking an official to the floor (which was a poor acting job on the officials part).
And G never was never convicted of any DUI’s. And one of his arrests happened when he was at Illinois.
by Ken Howlett on May 5, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right about Patterson
As for Gillispie never being convicted, neither was OJ, doesn’t make him innocent. Not saying he’s guilty, but obviously it was enough to get him a mugshot, which is more than can be said for Wall.
by aidanpryde18 on May 5, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just nit-picking
Some people still believe G has two DUI’s on his record.
by Ken Howlett on May 5, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and some don't ;)
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 5, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has more then 2...
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on May 5, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just two -- One at UTEP, one at Ilinois.
Both were reduced.
by Ken Howlett on May 6, 2009 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
One charge was dropped altogether and the other was pled to a lesser charge.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 6, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong about one thing, though
His first arrest, which occurred in ’99, was while he was at Tulsa. One year before he followed Self to Illinois.
by Ken Howlett on May 7, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad that you’ve never had to admit to doing something stupid Tink
I have had to admit to doing plenty stupid. I just wasnt a very highly publicized basketball recruit that the whole world was watching. I’m not saying that I think what he did was terrible and he should be hanged of anything like that.
I think what bothers me the most is that he knows the entire world is watching him and hanging on his every word and move and still made this choice. It just bothers me – sorry. I really do hope that this is just a case of “a kid being a kid,” the timing of it, however, makes me wonder if this kid may see himself as beyond reproach.
It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 5, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The timing of this incident is for
PR purposes. His camp knows that people are getting tired of the whole recruiting saga. In order to keep his name in the press he had to do something newsworthy. It’s tough to manufacture a “hero story” so a simple crime that will get people buzzing and not do any damage to the kid’s future is the play of the day. This will keep him in the news and on our tongues (fingertips?) until his decision is made. The court proceedings will assure us of that.
Nothing to it. The kid is just following a plan.
I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
by bluecrip on May 5, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point
I did this all the time when I was a high school senior. Granted I was not a nationally recruited basketball player, but I was a good kid that was offered a full ride scholarship to Yale. It never even crossed my mind that going into vacant buildings would get me in trouble. I bet the same goes for Wall.
by Strangeite on May 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very impressive
job Strangeite. Good going.. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's fun.
Hell, even I get a weird thrill out of exploring vacated apartments alone when I’m looking for new places to live (which happens a lot to me).
by BBallSophist on May 4, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the shoutout
Kind of. But I also made it very clear that if AND ONLY IF these charges stick could Wall be facing issues in the future. Not only that, but I didn’t “CLAIM” anything; I reported the news and then speculated on what might happen.
Furthermore, it was pretty evident that in discussing his trip to Central (which has been reported both ways, although I’ll concede your point if Wall is texting people about it) that I was alluding to the eligibility issues as a likely, but not definite, reason for looking at Central.
And the reason that news sites don’t like blogs is because sometimes, irresponsible bloggers spit vitriol when they get angry about certain topics. See graf #2 above.
by Brinson on May 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for coming by, Brinson.
My main objection is to your characterization of Calipari and the Big Blue Nation. I don’t like implications that Kentucky is more likely to do something ethically questionable or ignore a serious problem child that might wind up embarrassing our university than our rivals. It is offensive and neglects the reality that UK has cleaned up its act over the years. Yes, UK has a past, which makes such commentary easy, if facile, in the present context.
It is fair to claim that Calipari has a history of looking past juvenile offenses, and that is so, but there was no need to throw in the idea that UK boosters would be pressuring him to do so. In the first place, for what I know about this, any coach who would quit recruiting Wall unless a lot more negative comes out is either an elitist scold or cautious to the point of incredulity. It is also well-known that Roy Williams is no longer actively recruiting Wall, according to Wall himself, which goes unmentioned in the piece.
The rest, frankly, was nit-picking more than anything else. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but if you’re going to take a backhanded shot at us, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a response.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Urban Exploring
There is something written somewhere about stones and sins and the person without throwing the first one. Who hasn’t been convicted of a misdemeanor? Any misdemeanor?
Oh yeah, for the U of L supporters joining in, Rick went public about his blackmailer because….
by Dini-D-Alum on May 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another Possible Explanation
Perhaps he entered the vacant house to avoid the Swine Flu.*
You never know… .
*Disclaimer—this is strictly a tongue-in-cheek comment, and is not meant in any way to offend anyone who has or might hereinafter encounter the flu. In other words…I’m just kidding around.
by tooblue on May 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is so ridiculous
Ticketed for breaking and entering? Are you serious. This was trespassing, at worst.
Expect the typical UK haters to come out in droves … who gives a rats _ss?
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trespassing...
is when you come on my land and try to hunt or fish without my permission. You break into a house that I own, that is a different story.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I realize that this offense doesn't qualify, but the "spirit" of what they did is trespassing ...
… at least in my opinion.
B&E intimates someone breaking in a house or car and stealing something, or hurting someone. It has an ominous ring to it, so to speak, when in this case, clearly the offenders did nothing even approaching being hurtful to someone or their property.
Now, if they had found drugs on one of the group, or if they had vandalized the property in some way, then we may have a story. But this is a non-story, except to the UK haters.
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm...
not a UK hater by any means, but I will not support some delinquent. If he is wearing UK blue next year, fine, I will support him until he is gone. If not, oh well, good riddance.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Delinquent?
You must be kidding!
If this offense qualifies ANYONE as a delinquent, then I was the King of Delinquents in my younger years.
And I’m aware that you’re a UK fan, but I think you’re waaaaaay off base on this one.
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What...
does qualify someone as a delinquent? A fifth year senior? Why is he a fifth year senior? He’s breaking into houses? Why is he breaking into houses? The facts may not be on my side, but I can read between the lines.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're obviously predisposed to not liking this kid.
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I...
admit, the way he has handled his recruitment has left a bad taste in my mouth. Is diva too strong a word, I don’t think so. This has probably just tipped me over the edge on someone I was already borderline on.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sport -- This is also an issue that reasonable people can disagree on.
I was reading the comments over at John Clay’s blog and they seemed to be pretty evenly distributed — Half agree with me, half agree with you.
But the absolute best comment I’ve read on this affair comes from “KC” on Clay’s blog — “Does this mean he will now sign with the Bengals?”
Classic.
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now spork......
you know how I have said that I feel on the whole John Wall recruitment circus. But if only what we have been told about this incident is the whole story, this is not a big deal. He didn’t force entry, vandalize or steal anything. That is what they have said. No harm meant, or there would have been some. No harm done, if they have told the media everything. We can only wait to see if that is the case. He may have only been in there for 1 minute, we do not know the whole story. Like I said here before, John Wall will benefit the most from this mistake by learning a valuable lesson.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said too,
Monday is here and no short list. All this happened on April 27th I believe…didn’t it?
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm...
sorry, I don’t get that. If I go to your house and you have forgot to lock your door, does that make it OK to walk in? Maybe he didn’t force entry, because he didn’t have to.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok suppose this, since we are not sure.....
No it does not make it okay. He made a mistake. But what if, he entered the vacant house, and as soon as he walked inside, he thought, man, I shouldn’t be in here. So realizing he had messed up, he turned around and left……He was outside when they got him. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I...
understand the possiblities, but those are mistakes I was making when I was 13, not 18 or 19. I may be wrong about this guy, and I hope I am, it just kind of gets under my skin how all of us have waited for a decision only to see this.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 4, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally understand you there....
I am in the same boat… I guess some kids fight the good little voice in their head that tells them things they shouldn’t do, longer than others. So for now, we have to wait on more details, if there are any. Because what we have been given doesn’t make this a big deal. Totally wrong idea, yes. Total mistake, yes. We will just have to see if anything else is added to the real story. :-)
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has pretty much handled it ...
… just like Jai Lucas and Patrick Patterson.
So does this make them divas also? Just askin …
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patterson...
and Lucas drug their recruitment out, but not like this. He has had plenty of time to put together a list, but he is still adding to it. He has repeatedly lied to the media saying he will cut his list down to 3 or 4 by a certain date only to postpone it. I could understand the first delay for having to reevaluate the Kentucky-Calipari situation, but since then, it’s been a joke.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 5, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lied?"
That’s not so. He said he “planned” to do it by a certain day, or intended or needed to.
That’s not a lie if he fails to something with an ambiguous statement like that. Not at all. I say I plan to do things all the time that don’t come to pass by the date I mention, and I think most people do as well, when they know they don’t have a hard and fast deadline.
And yes, Patterson and Lucas did drag it out very much like this, until the very last day of the signing period.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patterson and Lucas
were down to 2-3 schools not 12 in the late signing period. There are some similarities but I think the two situations are clearly different.
That is not however a knock on Wall.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on May 5, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there a coaching change
when Patterson n Luuuuuucass were being recruited?
Believe it or not, Wall and every other high profile recruit are not making the decision here. The only thing on their mind is three little letters…..N B A. They don’t really care which school they go to, just as long as that school will give them the opportunity to play their way into the NBA. Hey hey hey!! It’s their “handlers”, their AAU coach, their ma, sonny vaccaro who is making the decision for these kids. why else do you think this kid has time to be goofing off in an abandoned house? not romantic but teen “love” isn’t always romantic. i.e. Damone n Stacy in the dugout in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
don’t hate the kid, not you dav or anyone else in particular, just realize this really is not his decision. mr clifton, his handler, is milking the universities that are interested in mr wall for as much as he can. yes, i know what i am suggesting but it is one of the biggest elephants in the living room that no one mentions about college ball. why do you think so many coaches don’t have the resources to compete with the big time programs for PRIME TIME recruits? not as much booster flow. why else are these AAU coaches sticking around longer? it isn’t for the AAU coach salary!!! HA HA HA HA!!!
it will be over soon. really. these folks are not professional PR people. they are doing a pretty good job, but lack flair. just a kid i guess. don’t want to hype him out of his eligibility, huh?
I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
by bluecrip on May 5, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.
The reason he is a fifth-year senior is well-known. It is due to his constant relocations. He was never held back or anything, nor does he have any kind of a record other than this juvenile prank that I am aware of.
Yes, what he did was wrong and he should pay a price, but good grief, not for the rest of his life, or even in terms of losing a scholarship. The law enforcement agencies involved characterized the offense as similar to a speeding ticket, which most of us have had.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking & Entering...
similar to a speeding ticket? I know those are the agencies words and not yours, but that doesn’t sound right to me.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on May 5, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My dear sir ...
… this was misdemeanor breaking and entering. There was no actual breaking, the door was open, he just walked into property that wasn’t his without permission. The statue is B&E, but what you actually had here was akin to simple trespassing.
The B&E charge sounds much worse that it is in this case, primarily because it is normally associated with a robbery attempt. In this case, it was simply entering an open door to an unoccupied residence without permission.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statue = statute. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kings of delinquents
Oh Lord please deliver me from overlooking what my son and his neighborhood buddies did for several years in their growing up years. They built a huge stand in the circle down from my driveway for skateboarding. I asked son where are you getting this lumber. Son says..oh just throwaway from homes being built in our subdivision. Just scraps all the boys said. This went on for over 2 years and finally the craze with skateboarding ended. We even had flowers at the pinnacle. Just kids doing their thing. But as a2d2 said, things have changed.
We olders know that. It is not the same as it was even 15 years ago with having a few drinks and driving. One with any sense just does not do it anymore, no matter how much alcohol one can consume and still be sober.
by kykat51 on May 4, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he was shopping for the house...
that a Duke booster had promised him?
The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.
by jbt36 on May 4, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Press-To-Test
Here’s my explanation:
Wall just can’t make up his mind on his choice of colleges. No matter how he balances the assets and liabilities there is just not enough difference to
say yes to one and let the other one ride.. So he and his bros devise a test: commit a transgression — not enough to get arrested — and then see which of the coaches — all of whom have promised the moon and stars — is sufficiently tolerant to retain the scholarship offer.
by Wild Weasel on May 4, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think jbt36 and WW are on to something!!
by Ken Howlett on May 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ken, I will be baaack,
I was trying to add to my football knowledge this morning, and I got hijacked. On my way back shortly…lol
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK Ken.....
now I know someone has been into the Maker’s Mark Christmas Commorative bottle early…lol….now we should be led to believe they WANTED him to get caught??…..hehehe….we are ALL spending too much time online!!!….lol
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Tru :-)
for moving the video off of the main page. Every time it put the brakes on my scroll, I wanted to say bad things….lol
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on May 4, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I usually don’t leave those up there for very long. The play the very devil with bandwidth.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on May 5, 2009 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much Ado About Next-2-Nothing
I doubt it will stop anyone from signing Wall.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 4, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
AMEN 40......AMEN
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on May 4, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding
he was in the house with another guy and a girl.Super Freak!
by -Zoso- on May 4, 2009 8:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe this will amount to much unless...
he commits to UK. If he ends up at Duke it will played off as kind-hearted Coach Kzewicalicadingdongski giving a second chance to a kid with a difficult and tragic past. It will make a great feature for CBS next season on the Road To The Final 4. Hell, Bryant Gumble may even send Real Sports to talk to him.
If he goes to Florida, it will be a story for about 10 minutes. Remember after Donovan returned to Gainesville after his 4 hours as Orlando’s coach and signed his big contract? Remember the flood of articles criticizing Florida for paying him what they thought he deserved? Of course you don’t, because it didn’t happen.
If Coach Cal signs him, it will be further evidence that he is dirty and the Big Blue Nation is so obsessed with being back on top that we will stop at nothing.
Don’t believe me? Hide and watch.
The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.
by jbt36 on May 4, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Breaking & Entering
I’m looking forward to next year — watching all of those opposing student sections holding up their signs mocking Wall for “breaking” and entering. And then watching him “break” their ankles as they try to keep up with his cross-over.
by longtime on May 4, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Kid
Is getting laid for all you old farts.This is not the crime of the century.
by -Zoso- on May 4, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope
the people that are ostrasizing Wall aren’t the same ones that say we make kids grow up to fast. Seems to be a bit of a contradiction.
by hoboat33 on May 4, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fair To Any Kid
There is always a balance to be struck when judging someone in the public eye: "Is this person being given preferential treatment?" "Is this person being judged more harshly because of who he is?" These are the crucial questions in my opinion when it comes to judging a kid’s transgressions, especially someone so young. It doesn’t matter to me if he is a UK recruit or a random kid on the street.
But BEFORE we pass any judgment, could we not wait and see WHAT if anything it is he has actually done? There will still be plenty time after all the facts are presented to hold the Court of Public Opinion. If we must.
by LyricSmith on May 5, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No way dude
Jumping to conclusions is what the blogosphere does best! :-)
The King is dead! Long live the King!
by NYCCats on May 5, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree, but
in this instance I see no harm in theorizing and debating, even though all of the facts aren’t in.
It’s such a minor thing (in my opinion).
by Ken Howlett on May 5, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wall
I have to say that there has to be more to this than what is being reported. At first he was given a ticket, now he has been arrested? I firmly believe in, “Innocent until proven guilty” but I am also a realist. That being said I am not going to “judge” this kid, but I not going to say that everything is blue skies, and rainbows either.
All of us know that perception is the rule these days. It doesn’t matter what really happened, but what people perceive it to be. Even if everything works out (legally) no matter where he goes in college there is going to be that perception that he is a thug.
I also would like to point out that athletes, especially great athletes are treated differently than everyone else.
by shepslaw on May 14, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
****EDIT****
Should read;
…now he has been charged…
Thank you, that is all.
by shepslaw on May 14, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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