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Billy Gillispie and the Great American Pastime

"What'd you expect after firing me, love and kisses?"

More photos » by Chris O'Meara - AP

"What'd you expect after firing me, love and kisses?"

I'm not talking about baseball in the title, as you might guess, but about litigation -- something we Americans hold near and dear to our heart.  "I'll sue!" is perhaps the most famous and oft-heard response to a commercial dispute in this country, and our jam-packed court system is evidence of our love affair with the lawyers.

So Billy Gillispie has filed a lawsuit in Federal court in Texas against the University of Kentucky for breach of contract.  I greeted this news with a yawn, as I have been expecting it for weeks.  Folks, Gillispie has a case, and if you read the suit, you will see it writ large in the double-spaced 12-point Roman typeface.  UK breached their agreement with Gillispie, about that there can be no rational argument.  What is an argument is whether or not that agreement had the legal, binding force of a contract.

Now, some of the stuff in Gillispie's complaint just tortures reason.  The idea that the University of Kentucky defrauded Gillispie is absurd on its face, and in my opinion will not survive a motion to dismiss.  There is no way Gillispie can provide enough evidence to satisfy a judge that UK intended not to live up to its obligations under the agreement, whether it be contract or MOU.  All the other allegations relating to fraud rest on the foundation that UK deliberately misled Gillispie about his intended employment.  If that were true, Barnhart should lose his job and perhaps be indicted on federal fraud charges, but I don't believe that it is either a) true or that b) Gillispie can produce enough evidence that it might be true for the claim to withstand a motion to dismiss, if it ever comes to that.

Star-divide

What this lawsuit represents is Gillispie's attempt to force UK to negotiate seriously.  That's what all such lawsuits are ever about.  It costs very little to file a suit -- I have done so before and it is neither difficult nor costly.  A quick phone call to a lawyer, $1500 or so and viola!

The lawsuit will force UK to expend money to respond, however, and engage their attorneys.  UK will have to decide how to play it all out, but in the end, if there is actually a jury trial on this lawsuit, I will be drop-dead shocked.  Jury trials are capricious and expensive, and neither side really wants that, trust me.  But the longer this drags on, the more expensive it becomes for UK (I expect Gillispie's lawyer is taking it on contingency).

Now, I am not a lawyer, and what legal knowledge I have is mostly in the area of criminal, not civil, law.  But I do believe that Gillispie has a very sound case against UK for breach of contract.  With that said, civil and contract law is complicated and full of nuances that I have no familiarity at all with.  But in the end, it matters little -- this case is not designed to go to court, it is to get UK off the $3 million dollar settlement they had been hoping for to a more reasonable (for Gillispie) figure.  My expectation is that it will, and the amount will go up some -- not to the full $6 million, for sure, but to something more like $4 or even $5 million.  Even at that, UK would be getting a bargain, for in my opinion, they absolutely owe Gillispie the full $6 million dollars.  There is no doubt that UK understood that MOU to represent a contract, and would have enforced it as such if Gillispie had been in breach.  The complaint quotes UK several times as saying just this, so there is no doubt whatever that they viewed it exactly as it was intended to be -- fully interchangeable for a formal contract.

There will be a settlement, and that's in the interest of everyone.  Here's hoping it's sooner rather than later.

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"...in my opinion, they absolutely owe Gillispie the full $6 million dollars."

I agree 100% with you on that, Tru.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

for what...?

winning games..? NO
improving our team..? NO
being a great ambassador..? NO
losing with dignity..? NO
creating a family/team like environment for our players..? NO
showing class while on a national stage…? NOT EVEN CLOSE…

Please tell me why we own this man $6 million…? I’d love to know..!!!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 28, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm...

with Tink on this. That was the contract. This is one part of college athletics that is exactly like the pros. If a player or coach doesn’t perform up to par, that doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay them the remainder of that contract. The fact that it was a MOU instead of an actual contract can be disputed, but just about everyone I have heard speak on that believes the MOU acts just like a traditional contract.

The Spork, I'm two things in one.

by the spork on May 28, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK Doesn't Owe Him $6 Million

Guy never belonged anywhere near the UK level.

Ask anyone in AD at University of Illinois.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not...

Gillispie’s problem, thats the athletics department’s problem.

The Spork, I'm two things in one.

by the spork on May 28, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK owes him six million ...

… because the MOU, which they acknowledged publicly as having the full force of a contract, says they do.

His coaching ability is utterly irrelevant.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong

he’s public image is that of the UK athletics department and the university itself…

they tried to get him to sign a contract for 2 years, he would not, they fired him… What was Mitch and Todd supposed to do…? Just say, “oh, ok then”..?

Good lord I’m glad he’s gone….

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 28, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again...

the quality of his work, no matter what aspect of the job you consider, is irrelevant.(sorry for taking that word from your post Tru, my thesauras is nowhere to be found.)

Firing him is not what is being debated. When you fire someone with a contract, you’re still on the hook for the remainder of it.

The Spork, I'm two things in one.

by the spork on May 28, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fired For Cause

I hope it goes to trial and the dirt becomes public.

I doubt Gillispie really wants to go there.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My first thoughts when I read the paper this morning

Were, “Wow, this could get really ugly.”

by uk1982 on May 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it goes to trial ...

… none of the so-called “dirt” will be relevant. It will not be admitted as evidence.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Think It Will

It will become “evidence” that UK fired Gillispie "For Cause’ in 2009.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 29, 2009 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The record ...

… states that is not the case.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

As far as I know, you don’t need to tell an employee that they are being fired “for cause” at the time they are terminated. It really only is relevant in case the employee applies for unemployment benefits, or sues for discrimination or, as in this case, for breach of an employment contract that contains a “for cause” exception to the severance payments. UK has every right at this time to claim that Gillespie was fired “for cause” and thus the “dirt” might be admissible (i.e. the evidence would be relevant but there is still the question of whether its probative value outweighs its prejudicial value).

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would depend.

UK fired Gillispie, and if they did not meet any of the “for cause” provisions in whatever serves as a contract (assuming the court agrees with Gillispie’s assertion that the MOU was, in fact, a contract), it’s hard to say they did not breach it.

Therefore, the “for cause” provisions would either be irrelevant to the extent they did not comport with the “contract,” or maybe the court would want to examine the “for cause” provisions of other similar contracts to discover if any additional added elements by UK were appropriate to such a contract model.

Based on the rumors of the behaviors in question, it seems likely to this layman that the court would find them either irrelevant or prejudicial if they were, in fact, presented for admission into evidence.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely...

better UK just pony up or force an out of court settlement. Otherwise, this could be very embarrassing for the University. They had to have known this was coming and they have the cash to “make it go away” and that’s exactly what they should do.

I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!

by sleepytimetea on May 29, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again ...

… this has nothing to do with his work and everything to do with the agreement. If you can’t see that, you are just letting your emotions run wild while your brain sits idle.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tru,

I read this blog concerning the “MOU” and wondered if you had seen it…..it seems to define the University’s position pretty clearly, but I am not a lawyer. See what you think….
link

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

I have it on my desktop. I have read it many times.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The guy makes a couple of good points

here is a transcript of the blog in case no one wants to link

Here is a very shortened version of the closing arguments in Gillispie’s/UK’s lawsuit. Defendant goes first during closing because Gillispie bears the burden of proof. (It will be assumed that Gillispie is the plaintiff and UK the defendant even though I believe UK’s lawsuit filed in Kentucky is the proper place for the lawsuit.)

UK will stipulate the memorandum of understanding was a contract. There is no dispute about that. UK will then argue that it was Billy Gillispie, and not UK, who breached said contract. UK will point out that the memorandum of understanding expressly states that a more detailed employment contract will be completed in the future and the execution will occur at “…. the earliest possible date.” On the second page of the contract, it states that the contract is “contingent” upon “…..executing an employment contract…” and said process will be mutually concluded “within 60 calendar days of your start date.” UK will then argue that Gillispie breached this contract (memorandum of understanding) when he failed in good faith to execute a rather routine and more detailed employment contract. They will point out that they sign every coach to a similar contract and no coach has ever refused to sign said contract. Gillispie, however, refused to and nearly two years after the memorandum of understanding he still had not. UK will explain the need to have a more detailed contract to ensure their coaches conduct themselves in a way that does not embarrass the university. They will tell the jury:

Why did Gillispie refuse to execute the more detailed contract? Because he wanted to behave however he wanted to. Billy Gillispie breached the contract; not UK. He was the one who refused to execute the more detailed employment contract in direct violation of the memorandum of understanding. Once you determine that he was the one who breached the contract you mark the jury instruction here, sign it and you get to go home. It is that simple. Moreover, if Gillispie had signed the employment contract like any person acting in good faith would have, UK would have had a character clause in that more detailed contract. You’ve heard a mountain of evidence to demonstrate that he would have been in violation of the character clause. It doesn’t matter whether we were happy with his performance on the court. He breached the contract and UK had every right to fire him without any further payments.

Gillispie’s attorney will argue that Gillispie has won multiple coaching awards and he was fired, after 2 seasons, because he didn’t win enough for UK. All this talk of drinking, women, interviews, conduct off the court, treatment of players, etc is a smoke screen. We all know that Gillispie would still be the coach of UK today if he had won more games. They never would have fired him based upon the evidence of conduct they have presented if he had won the National Championship or coached UK to the Final Four, etc. He coached UK and worked all the time to make UK better. He’s sorry he didn’t win more. He worked night and day and he wishes more than anybody that UK would have won more games. But he lived up to the contract he signed. He didn’t promise to win a certain amount of games. UK had every right to fire him for not winning enough games but they don’t have the right not to pay him what they contracted to pay him if he was fired.

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with most of that.

I do not agree that UK will concede that the MOU is a contract. They shouldn’t either, as they have a strong argument (notice I did not say winning argument) that it is not a contract.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would they concede it if

it shortened the route to a settlement they will go along with?…allow both parties to save face somewhat?…Gillispie can claim that he was able to get UK to admit that it was a contract, and the University can get the settlement they want?

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heck, if they come to a settlement

they may admit to being long-lost cousins.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So who has the

“estoppel” argument here, UK or Gillispie?

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Contract

I see plenty of instances given in the case papers that can show that UK most certainly DID see the MOU as a contract.

Hate him all you want, guys, but Gillispie has a case. I hope he gets his money.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hate?

Why is it that when someone has a view that is contrary to a position favored by another that hate enters into it. I don’t hate BCG, but I his case is not as ironclad as some of you would have it and this lawsuit, whatever you think of the parties position, is almost career suicide.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanx Tru...

You are showing so much class….

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The MOU had two parts

The first part covered basic compensation. The second part covered issues to be addressed in the actual contract. Severance pay was in the second part.

In real life, I have been hired, I have hired, I have fired, I have been fired. I have been hired by mistake; I shouldn’t have taken the job, but I did and then I got fired. Whose fault was it? It was their fault because they hired me; my fault because I took the job without fully considering the situation I was entering. What I have learned is that these situations is that both parties need to take time to fully explore all aspects of the situation.

Employment is a two-way street; both parties bear equal responsibilities.

Mitch screwed up by offering Billy the job. Billy screwed up by taking it. It was a $6 million mistake. The equitable thing is for Billy to accept $3 million for UK’s mistake. Split it 50-50.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not rational.

Gillispie did not “screw up” taking the job. This was offer and acceptance. Gillispie accepted the position in good faith, and I believe UK offered it in good faith.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK said

the MOU protected UK’s interests (which are to minimize payouts). UK never said that the MOU protected Billy’s interests (which are to maximize payouts).

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Contracts ...

… cannot be that one-sided by definition. If what you said was true, UK is guilty of fraud and owes Gillispie a lot more than the contract amount.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Tru

Contracts can be very one-sided….just ask any insurance agent about the contract they have with their companies…..they can be terminated at any time for any cause….employment is considered to be “at will”….we have the worst contracts of anyone

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They can be one-sided, as you mention...

…but in such “adhesion” contracts, the terms are constructed strictly against the drafting party, so if that’s the case, UK isn’t going to get the benefit of any doubts.

All that said, it’s not an adhesion contract. It was bargained for by experienced attorneys on both sides (or at least I assume it was).

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on May 29, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

never "assume".....lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no law that says a contract has to be fair to both parties

They simply cannot be “unconscionable”

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have always been told that

by signing the contract we agree to its principals…and that we are free not to sign it if we do not wish to represent the contracts….lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

companies....not contracts....sorry

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it incredible that you are absolutlely clear in this knowledge.

But, yet, Todd or Barnhardt must have been in the dark. Your insight seems to be unmatched….and all the way from Chicago, too.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on May 28, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Don't Think So

The air smells pretty decent here in Rolling Meadows.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well we certainly don't have the crystal view of Lexington from Naperville, that's for sure;

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on May 28, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

West and Northwest suburbs...I believe

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on May 28, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop passing rumors, Forty.

You know better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a rumor.

It is heresay. You know better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im not so sure

It’ll have to play out in court but I dont think they owe G much of anything but a swift kick in the but on his way out of town. The man owes no one but himself for losing his job.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

UK will most likely owe the $6 million

But the rest of what he asks for, heck no.

And if this goes to court, Billy G will never coach a major program ever again. I don’t have any doubt that UK would unleash the hounds.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah.

UK will not do that. They have a lot to lose here as well, and attempting to smear Gillispie would damage UK more than him.

It won’t come to that. UK will make a more reasonable offer, and Gillispie will accept, and everyone will agree to kiss and make up. This is just part of the dance.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I"m not saying the smear would be directly in court

I’m saying the “sources” would have a field day. UK would have plausable deniability.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It won't happen.

Nobody wants to go there.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Jones already went there

And has been saying that now the suit has been filed, he’ll let more out of the bag.

Todd/Barnhart/Billy G may not want that stuff to come to light, but it may anyway.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah.

What a joke. C’mon, man, you cannot seriously think this is going to matter. UK won’t, nobody is going to care what a blogger writes, it’s all just a bunch of stuff.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying it will matter in court

I’m saying his filing a suit will only be bad for him.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah.

It’s not going to be a problem. UK has been expecting this, they set aside $100k in the budget to deal with it. They are already preparing their response and trying to figure out the best way to negotiate a deal.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree...

I really think this makes him less desirable for an AD to hire as a coach. That doesn’t mean he won’t find a job (I think he will) but this won’t make it any easier on him IMO.

by Clay Mason on May 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well ...

… who knows, maybe you’re right. I doubt it, though. If Kelvin Sampson can get hired at IU, I think Gillispie can get hired at lots of places.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kelvin Sampson doesnt have a history of sueing his employers

Knowing this guy has sued past employers would make me wary of hiring him should anything go down wrong.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasnt defending Sampson at all.

Just pointing out ther difference.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eddie Sutton

got fired by UK and got hired by OK A&M/State. Had a nice record as a coach. As I recall, he didn’t bad-mouth anybody or take legal action against anybody. He just coached basketball. He had personal issues with alcohol, but he managed to coach college basketball pretty successfully at big schools for 40 years, and he was a good father to two successful young men/coaches.

Billy Clyde could have learned something from Eddie’s example had he paid attention.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think the fans will go nuts on Billy?

I can already tell he’s made an enemy of just about everyone in the commonwealth. UK may not try to smear him, but you can bet your butt the fans will do everything in their power to do just that.

by BleedinUKBlue on May 29, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who listens to fans?

Just askin.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Fans"

have been smearing him for over a year now. He is bigger than that. I dont blame him at all for this lawsuit. He deserves what is owed him. He should not give a rat’s a** what “fans” think. As much as I hate to see him go, that is the only way this man will have peace. People can be so ignorant sometimes. I wish him well. I wish him success.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if Coach G is as tough as he put on

then i suspect he’ll be fine. i lived in TX for a while and a lot of them boys are wise to many things. he obviously was an emotional man and very taxing as a coach which can wear a person down and not leave time for the rah rah part of the UK HC job. he is a basketball guy and UK is THE college basketball school. he just didn’t understand the rigors of such a Paris Hilton-esque type job. You have to be EVERYWHERE AT ONCE just to keep us satisfied.

my feeling is that he will benefit from this situation no matter what occurs. as a UK fan you can lose sight of the big picture someitmes, especially when caught up in the brouhaha that is currently among us.

Nationally, he did something to UK/ with UK/ for-against UK and that will play until the day he dies, or as long as UK is a relevant force in the college basketball landscape. because of this he will always have some sympathy from someone in college basketball. calipari will swoop in and steal some rival’s recruits and they’ll hire G to taunt us for a while.

either way, he walks away from UK with some fat stacks, a nice lil vacation and the chance to bank them stacks into a cushy D-1 rebuilding gig.

my only concern with the whole Coach G thing was the way it went down. i don’t need history lessons about why it had to be done the way it was, i get it. doesn’t mean i have to dig it, i just have different standards.

also, i don’t care about behind the scenes commentary. the dude is gone, has taken up residence in the vacuum of court proceedings and will live with a financial security markedly better than what i have or can anticipate having in the forseeable future, whether i write my congressman or send a postcard of the moon and put “wish you were here” on it. that stuff is so trashy that i think it would be interesting to see automatic scandalous remarks made about a user who posts gossip about a public figure. ya got anything better to do? read a book? yoga? skin flute? i know that UK basketball is VERY INTERESTING and all but speculating on another’s actions that you had no sniff of witnessing is lame.

GO BIG BLUE!!!!

I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

by bluecrip on May 29, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion

KSR will not release anything damaging to UK, but I’m not so sure Coach Gillispie will receive the same treatment. That is the world of blogging for you. Except, of course, for A Sea of Blue. ; )

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tru has a high standard of ethics

And it is much appreciated. Other bloggers, not so much…..and they will let things leak.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let them.

If they want to soil their reputations by getting down in the mud, they can. I don’t care. It won’t make any difference at all, and anyone who thinks it will simply doesn’t understand the situation.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Matt Jones also believes that his site running the Gillispie/McCarthy’s incident “story” is the reason that Billy has decided to leave town.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Jones

stated that other thought that not that he thought that.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

davw83, maybe you want to reword that?

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably should

MJ stated that other people “unknown sources” thought that the KSR Mcarthy’s piece finally drove G to leave town. He did not state that he thought the piece drove G to leave town.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riiight

I know what he said, but Matt thinks an awful lot of himself and I feel pretty confident that he is feeling like he played a roll in “running G out of town.”

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair

Not sure if I agree with it or not but I think your assertion would be easy to draw given how he typed it.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One prominent blogger has already fired...

the University’s first shot. They are promising a full story on “just cause” tommorrow. Won’t that be pretty for all involved?

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what I am getting at

Now that this suit is filed, more is going to leak. And if it goes to trial, it all comes out.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yawn.

Please, guys. In the legal sense, it is irrelevant. UK did not allege that Gillispie was fired for cause. They can’t go back and say it now. It is inadmissible as evidence, and destructive for UK’s cause. But hey, I could care less. If they want to turn this into a soap opera, I’ll sit back and laugh. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really, did the law change?

If so, I need to get that update as it will affect the advice that I give to my clients.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure what you mean.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can you say that you fired Gillispie ...

… for one reason, then come back later and say, “no, we didn’t really mean that, we meant something different?”

I don’t think a court would accept that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can they not say that

they were attempting to protect the individual’s privacy ?

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion,

both statements would likely be admissible (he wasn’t fired for cause, he was fired for cause) to be admitted. It would be up to the jury to decide which statement is more credible and true.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy G

is going to have a tough time finding a big time job already. I cant imagine how hard it would be if this goes to court. Im sure there will be a settlement but I would love to hear straight from the administration Billy G’s actions that led to his firing. I dont see how that hurts UK at all. By all accounts this guy treats his players horribly.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

A settlement is better for Billy G than going to court, because all that behind the scenes stuff will come out.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong.

Only what the University wants to make public will see the light of day. It will be a one-sided affair and Coach Gillispie will be painted as the proverbial “lone nut” as this unfolds.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on May 28, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may be wrong.

All that “behind the scenes” stuff, if opened up, could be brought to light, and UK’s involvement may be a lot less pristine than everyone would like to believe.

We don’t know everything. Let’s not assume anything.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe ...

… but he can always start back amongst the little guys and work his way up again.

As far as his treatment of the players, UK is not going to go there. The worse they try to make him look, the worse they will look for putting up with it for any length of time.

Trust me, that’s not going to happen.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I have said before that if the rumors that Gillispie mistreated the players are true then the whole program is at fault for not putting a stop to it immediately.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Program

I can understand that BUT it they are true Billy’s actions are unexplainable. Forget blaming the program.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

I will not forget blaming the program IF that is true. Sorry.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Billy G just gets a free pass from you?

What happened to personal responsbility in this country?

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No free pass

IF the player abuse rumors are true then Billy did a bad thing and gets no free pass even from me, however, I would also place equal blame on the program if they stood by and did nothing for as long as this has supposedly been going on.

I also want to add that “abuse” is a very strong and serious word and I would need proof of very strong and serious actions done by Billy to deem him an abusive man and to wish for the end of his coaching career.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There as been at least 3 players already ...

…come out and say that they did not get along with coach…

What proof are we looking for here..?

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 28, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait ...

… “not getting along” is a very, very far cry from “abuse.”

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please answer the question...

What proof do you want..? You want it on video, bruises..?? geez guys…

This is not some big secret… The man was a jerk and not a very well liked person…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 28, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is not proof.

That is an opinion, and it doesn’t prove anything except that some players did not agree with him.

Whether or not he was a jerk is utterly irrelevant. He wasn’t fired for being a jerk.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He Was Fired "For Cause"

The “jerk” aspect was a factor in the “for Cause” issues.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 29, 2009 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again, this is a rumor.

No such revelations are in evidence in the public record.

For a man who claims to rely on “facts,” you have provided almost no factual basis for your remarks about Gillispie.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being a jerk is not "for cause"

I’ve had to pay out unemployment benefits on people I fired for having the wrong personality and for people who were incompetent.

Neither of those situations constitutes “for cause.”

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 29, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you....

…If they are true, (and I think some are), then the UK as a whole are responsible…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 28, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think UK will go there

but I disagree completely that it would make them look bad for going there.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at this snip from the H-L story
Around that time — March 2007 — Gillispie was negotiating a lucrative contract extension with Texas A&M. The university offered him a deal through 2015 that would pay him $1.75 million annually, according to the lawsuit.

Gillispie had been at Texas A&M for three years and had just guided the team to the NCAA Tournament’s Sweet Sixteen when UK approached him about replacing Tubby Smith.

Gillispie’s lawsuit says UK’s athletics association “intentionally interfered with Coach Gillispie’s contract negotiations with Texas A&M through its fraud.”

The last part made me almost piss myself laughing.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

That allegation is … well, let’s just say it’s unserious. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

That part is pretty ridiculous.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy

Billy G misremebers

by onemaco on May 28, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does seem rather ridiculous

But you need to understand something. For various reasons that I don’t feel like fully explaining, Billy’s attorney is smart to make the fraud and intentional interference with contract claims for the sole reason that it solidifies jurisdiction in the federal court in Texas. A civil fraud case is very difficult to win without a smoking gun (which I doubt Billy has). His attorney knows this. But, fraud cases are also difficult to get dismissed before trial. As long as the fraud charge is triable, then the case will be able to remain in Texas.

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.

That makes the fraud allegations look a lot more reasonable for inclusion, even if they look impossible to prove.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the sole reason to allege fraud

is for punitive damages. There are no punitives involved with breach of contract cases. Contract cases are all about the deal made and the value of the contract,. You don’t get punitives for breaking a contract as anyone has the right to break a contract, so long as he is willing to pay the liquidated damages.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree (imagine that lawyers in disagreement)

I seriously doubt the fraud charge has legs. I imagine his attorney knows this. Thus, punitive damages would not be much of a consideration since he is not likely to get them.

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did not say he would get them.

But it is a nice bone to throw out there in negotiations.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

But I still think the main reason for fraud charge is to solidify the claim of diversity of citizenship.

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. I said that yesterday. Having punitives even a possibility raises

his starting bargaining position from $6 million to $6 million + $18 million (or whatever Texas allows for punitives).

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

By adding punitives he attempts to raise the negotiations from a maximum of 6 million to something much higher.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Typical Gillispie Move

Defiant and dumb. Do you wonder why UK flew Gillispie from Texas to Lexington for a contract signing at 2:30 a.m.? Wouldn’t it have been easier to fly the contract to Texas and sign it there? The reason is that where the contract is signed usually determines which federal court has jurisdiction.

So UK’s first move is likely to get the case dismissed in Texas on that ground or to have the case moved to US District court in Lexington. To justify trying the case in Texas, Gillispie’s lawyers claim that he is a resident of Graford, Texas, that the UKAA has extensive business in Texas and that Billy was in Texas when he verbally agreed to the UK contract.

If UK engaged in civil “fraud” by offering Billy a contract that it never intended to honor, then what about Billy’s apparent breaching of contracts with Texas El Paso and A&M?

In fairness, UK probably owes Billy some money, and I’m sure they’ve offered him some. But whether the Memo of (Mis)understanding constitutes an enforceable contract as far as severance pay is concerned is a very debatable proposition. The memo spells out some basic terms (annual pay) and then says other terms (including the $1.5 a year million severance) will be addressed in a permanent contract to be signed forthwith.

Billy better get some dough from UK because the filing of this suit doesn’t help his job prospects as a college coach.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It may ...

… get moved to Lexington, jurisdiction is never really all that clear to me. But it will remain in federal court, which is all Gillispie really wanted anyway. Lexington or Texas makes no real difference. If it comes to trial, it may well be moved due to pre-trial publicity, but I predict that will never happen.

Gillispie’s actions with other colleges will never enter into the discussion. They are irrelevant to the legal case, and a judge will not allow any such evidence in. The only thing at issue right now are the facts surrounding the complaints in the lawsuit.

As far as Gillispie’s prospects, you are dreaming. If Samson can get hired at Indiana with his record, Gillispie will have no problems finding a home. It probably won’t be a huge school, but hey, he can work his way back up the ladder.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This goes away quietly with BCG holding a check for 4M

and that lovely smile on his face…..lol…..and he will be off to another school to find a way to make HIS way work…..AND he prays for a chance to play UK in the tournament sometime and beat them….lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

I think that’s just about exactly right.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope it goes down just like that.

…only with more money! ;)

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Agree

It won’t go to a trial. And if it does, the only evidence will concern the meaning of the words in the MOU. A federal judge would probably direct the parties to mediate.

Idealistically, athletic programs at institutions of higher education would learn from the Indiana/Samson fiasco. In addition, Samson and Gillispie present different issues for prospective employers. Samson had a one-time NCAA violation; Gillispie is a serial violator, an all-purpose embarrassment looking for a place to erupt. PR conscious schools in major conferences are likely to shun Gillispie, but a smaller school not in the constant media and rabid fan cross hairs may gamble on him in order to establish a strong basketball presence.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Samson had a one-time NCAA violation; Gillispie is a serial violator

Gillispie a serial violator with NCAA violations?? News to me.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A serial embarrasser

A PR nightmare, not an NCAA violator. My bad.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe so

but neither of those things get a team sanctioned or wins/appearences revoked.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Human Rights violations

I think he was referring to human rights violations.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riiiiggght

That is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a joke!!!

I thought it was obvious.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry - couldnt tell.

You have been awful hard on ol’ Billy lately. I just figured it was more of the same.
Sorry to have misunderstood.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ive really taken a dislike to the man

but that was a joke.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 28, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for defending me

I made a boo boo. I don’t dislike Gillispie. I’m not sure I would want to spend a lot of time in his company, but I don’t dislike him. I suspect he has at least a border line personality disorder that his close friends should encourage him to talk to qualified professionals about.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it goes to trial

I think that it should be moved. I worry about the “fairness” of a trial by a jury of his “peers” here.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 28, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is in federal court in Dallas

So no need to worry about a jury here.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you accusing him

of forum selection? NOOOOOOO.

True ’dat.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Kentucky

His folks filed where they did and the language they are using is an early front against ANY arguments in the validity of the MOU opening the CHANCE it is ruled not valid and Kentucky’s employee laws that lean strongly in the way of the employer are in full force.

Would be funny to see him get the max unemployment of $1,400 a month or so.

Honestly, he should get the full 6 but will walk away with 4.25 (specific just in case a line gets going on the amount :-)

However, I see this as hurting him more and not UK as much. “IF” this went the distance, UK could look like a heavy bully but he will look a little petty and sue happy. I would say he would get his 6 and not a penny more but loose in public and professionally. If slinging started, UK looks like big nasty business but his mud is kid related. Don’t get me wrong, both lose but a few stories about mistreatment and that they fired when it came to light would, like you said earlier Tru, would make UK sticky for allowing it to happen under their watch for even a single day but in the end, BCG would be hard to clean. BUT, you can get a crap load of Kaboom and Sham-Wows with 6 large :-)

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on May 28, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the case is transferred from Texas to Ky.,

then the federal aspect dies and it can only be filed in Kentucky state courts, Franklin county specifically. You can only be in federal court for a civil case like this if there is diversity. If the ruling is that the deal was made in Ky. Texas can’t keep it and it dies.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, IF Texas can't keep it,

It dies? Totally? And UK filed in Franklin county? What happens to that if the Federal suit dies? More help please ? :-)

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 29, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay,

By dying in Texas, I mean that Texas would have no grounds to keep. Therefore, they would either transfer it to federal court in Kentucky or dismiss. If the case is transferred to federal court in Kentucky, BCG may have issues (not saying politics or anything, just saying).

All lawsuits against a state agency must be filed in Franklin Circuit Court per Kentucky law. That is why UK filed its claim. They are anticipating the death of the Texas case and then the only existing case will be in Frankfort. When it comes to courts, most times whoever is in the court room first is where the case remains.

Finally, UK has a pretty good ground for dismissing the case in Texas. He did not sue UK itself. UK was his employer.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't diversity of citizenship ...

… all that would be required in this case? I don’t think it could be persuasively argued that Gillispie was a citizen of any state other than Texas when this agreement was made.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, for diversity's sake, the question is where the parties reside at the time

of filing.

Re: above—it doesn’t matter if the “deal was made” in Kentucky, i.e., signed there, etc. If he can show it was substantially negotiated in Texas, the parties met in Texas, or the like, Texas can keep it.

I think wk’s overall point was that if for some reason Texas dismisses, Gillispie may not be able to remove the Kentucky state action to federal court because state agencies cannot be sued in state court (I’m not sure one way or the other about that).

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is why his house went up for sale one day

And the suit filed the next.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 29, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, thanks for the diversity jurisdiction assist.

My federal civil procedure is not what it once was.

As for the state agency part, Ky law says that any lawsuit involving the state or one of its agencies must take place in Franklin Circuit Court in Frankfort. This would not hamper the feds, but if the Texas case is dismissed, then the only surviving action is in Kentucky.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks wklawdog :-)

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 29, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also ...

… even if dismissed in Texas, it seems to me that he would merely have to refile the suit against the proper party.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't Gillespie just...

…file for joinder of UK?

Also, Tru is right. As long as Gillespie can truly show diversity of citizenship the case would be able to remain in federal court (either in TX or KY).

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are sovereign immunity issues with suing UK.

I’m not sure exactly how that would play out, but I think he chose UKAA to avoid that.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yikes

I didn’t even think about UK being an agency of Kentucky. This is problematic.

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea,

but I wonder if the fact that UK has now sued him gets rid of that sovereignty somehow.

That is not my area of forte.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and my family wondered

why I went into engineering instead of law! ,0-

by hoboat33 on May 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not mine either

Thank god

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on May 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

There’s probably some adminstrative committe you have to go in front of, exhaustion of remedies, blah blah. Vomit.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barnhart spoke to the Elizabethtown Rotary Club a year ago

And at that time, he said he was perfectly comfortable working under a MoU and it had all the things in there that they would have in the final contract. I don’t see how he can weasel out of that part of it.

The jurisdiction is a funny thing, when I have sued people for non-payment of bills in the past… I have done it where my office is. One of them tried to say it should be in their home county, the judge made the statement that it could have been tried there, but it was perfectly acceptable to try it here as well. That could be an interesting part of it all.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 28, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

Often 2 or more jurisdictions, including multiple state and federal courts, and various venues, are appropriate for a particular action. The plaintiff gets to choose, though if the plaintiff files in state court but there is diversity of citizenship between the parties, the defendant can automatically remove the action to federal court.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK said the MOU

protected UK’s interests. UK did not say that the MOU protected Billy’s interests.

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that language in the MOU?

“This document protects UKs interests, but not Billy Gillispie’s interests.”

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if this MOU...

contains the following statement:

“When taking on this position, Billy Gillispie accepts the responsibilities of serving as ambassador for the University of Kentucky as a whole. Considering that the job of Head Basketball Coach at the University of Kentucky is a position that carries greater notoriety and fame than the Office of Governor of the Commonwealth, those deemed worthy by Mitch Barnhart must always be nice to the media that seeks to tear their throat out. Furthermore, they must never, ever, ever lead a team to the NIT.”

That was the thrust of their complaints with him, as least on the surface.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The purpose of a suit is usually to settle out of cout. It is usually in the best interest of

both parties. However, in this case, this case could be used to tarnish the University as a means of rebuilding a deteriorating career of an up and coming coach. This case could be used to improve the “employability” of Gillispie. The awarding of 6million dollars could be very cheap in the long run to UK’s reputation.

by Blueobsessed on May 28, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah.

This is just a “giddyap” by Gillispie. Nothing more, nothing less.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

billy was drunk when he filed the suit? He was intoxicated 1/2 the time he was coaching anyway.

by BleedinUKBlue on May 29, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't pass rumors in here.

You know better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Doubt Billy Was Drunk While Coaching

Surely a drunk could do better than 40-27 over 2 seasons.

He had to have been stone cold sober to do that poorly.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 29, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Surely a drunk could do better than 40-27 over 2 seasons"

That made me laugh.

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 29, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The REAL Question??????

To me if UK owes the $6 million or not is not the real question. It was worth $10 million to get rid of him for the future of the program.

To me the REAL question is why did Barnhart agree to include a $1.5/year buyout in ANY contract. This isn’t Indiana State trying to hire a BIG name coach…..this is one of the top programs in the country hiring a coach. Were they REALLY that desperate to hire a coach at Gillispie level? Is there anyone that thought Gillispie was one of the top 5 coaches in America???? I want to coach at UK if I can be a total screw up in every way and still walk away with $6 million!!!!!!!

by UKlvrJM on May 28, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gillispie's lawyer

is based in Houston, and did an interview this morning with a radio station there where he lays out his case against the Athletic Association. He sounded pretty confident that BCG can win the breach of contract argument. It’s a great interview, listen to the whole thing:

http://thegame.podbean.com/2009/05/28/interview-with-billy-gillispies-lawyer-demetrios-anaipakos/

by rangersfan09 on May 28, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 legal points:

1(a): Federal jurisdiction is okay because the parties are residents of different states—diversity jurisdiction (assuming Gillispie can show that he is a resident of Texas).

1(b): Subject-matter jurisdction—I don’t think this is an issue either. It doesn’t matter WHERE the K was signed. If it was negotiated, etc., on Gillspie’s end in Texas, Texas is likely okay. It would have been fine to file in the E.D. Ky. as well, but Gillispie chose Texas, and I don’t see this going out on jurisdictional grounds.

2: Fraud—Gillispie does not have to show that UK intended to not live up to its obligations, rather he needs to show that UK made false statements of material existing fact, and made those statements either (1) with knowledge that they were false (more like “intent”); or (2) made with reckless abandon as to the truth or falsity of the statements.

He still has a large hill to climb regarding fraud, but he does not have to show that any action was intentional.

Often fraud is thrown in because you generally cannot recover punitive damages based on a breach of contract (in most cases—insurance contracts and fiduciary relationships being the exceptions).

By alleging fraud, he opens the door to punitives. Even if he hopes to settle for well less than $6 million + $18 million, all of a sudden his bargaining position starts at $24 million instead of $6 million.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks blbskue,

I was needing help on the federal jurisdiction part…..
:-)

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol....for one thing. :-)

and several others…lol

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if I'm going to waste time when I should be practicing law,

I might as well comment about what I’m wasting time on, eh?

Interesting thing is that I’m currently swimming in a summary judgment motion defending similar issues—breach of K, fraud, possible oral K, etc.

A lot of this is right on the tip of my tongue. Maybe the UKAA needs a lawyer. Heh.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you listened to the interview...

with Coach Gillispie’s lawyer, it sure sounds like they do.

The quickest way to a man's heart is Chuck Norris' fist.

by jbt36 on May 28, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

They could do far worse than you, sounds to me like. I’m glad you’re familiar with these civil issues. It’s way out of my league.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BARNHART!!!!!!

Dawg Gone It !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We would not be having this discussion if “BARNHIT” had done his job before Billy Clyde!!!
I am not well informed, but the only thing that I can appreciate “BARNHIT” for is the hiring of Brooks!!!!!!!! He and
Pres. Todd (who said in past that UK was about education not Sports. (or something like that) should be fired for
the embarassing way they have handeled the tradition of such a fine university!! That’s all I’m to say !!!!!!!!

SO THERE———-DONE!!!

by kentuckystrong on May 28, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Barnhart

Mishandled the PR side of things in Tubby’s last days and should have handled the Gillispie hire better, but I can find no fault with him other than that.

He has spearheaded a major improvement in facilities across the board for all sports at UK. He has hired stellar coaches for baseball and women’s basketball. He took heat for his hiring of Coach Brooks until hindsight made it look like the right move.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 28, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Believe it or not, UK is not the location of the Most Bizarre Story in College Sports (current events edition)

That honor goes to Kansas St and their ex-football coach Ron Prince, as related by Joe Posnanski (The Greatest Sportswriter in America © )

There is no gravity - the earth just sucks.

by JLeverenz on May 28, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Thanks JL

That story is really WAY!!!!!! out there… LOL … Definitely a big WOW… It gets my vote for the most bizarre story in college sports. :-)
But one question ! ! !
Why does it have to be more wildcats??? Some unknowing ones will only hear wildcats with a big K…..

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 28, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great timing

I happened to be reading this thread, and my school gets brought up.

What’s happening at K-State is beyond bizarre. I have been following K-State for years, and I have no idea what anybody involved in this situation was thinking.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on May 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap!

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.

by btcoop71 on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

another good way to put it....lol

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 28, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Not A Lawyer (So I have No Idea) BUT

This lawsuit probably means Gillispie will never agin coach at BCS level.

He may coach at low to mid major Div I or even Div II, III, or NAIA level. But his “Big Boy” days are done.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just don't think I agree.

I can see the reasons for having that opinion, and Matt Jones has surely been spouting it all day long, but at its most basic level that’s like saying that if I, an attorney with a larger, respected firm, filed suit for wrongful termination against that law firm, that I could never get another job with a large firm. People sue their previous employers all the time, and find similar or better jobs with other employers down the line.

I do think that in the future, if he gets an opportunity at a BCS school, that school (and hopefully Gillispie) will take careful steps to ensure that a clear, unambiguous contract is in effect, and SIGNED by all parties.

It’s not as if Gillispie has sued other employers—this is the first, and I just don’t buy that it ends his career, or that other BCS schools will shy away because Gillispie is “litigous.” Whether he wins or loses, he’s fully within his rights to bring this suit.

If it does end up ending his coaching career, it’s a shame. He’s not doing anything wrong by bringing this lawsuit.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

litigous = litigious

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just My Opinion

BCS schools don’t like to be drugged into court. Gillispie’s name is M-U-D now.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

Dragged.

NEED EDIT function.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name

I think this makes Kentucky’s name look just as bad if not worse – and it should.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WRONG..!!!!

“most” media outlets have already expressed that Billy G was an awful hire, and now he files a lawsuit after not doing a damn thing in 2 years but make UK a freaking laughing stock..???

He deserve nothing more in my opinion… he has already received more then he “earned”

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 29, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no sir...

Just an educated UK fan of course… lol

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 29, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

man I hope so....lol

or I will have to become stupid or sober one….lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on May 29, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said before

We will see.

I hope he gets it all.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he won't get it all

but he will be compensated rather well. as much mud as folks are slinging he will be laughing all the way to the bank so to speak. regardless of what is said Coach G will get paid a handsome set of fat stacks. might even be gilt edged…. afterwards, he’ll have his UK experience to keep his name in the mix of jobs. believe me, as much interest as this subject has drawn many a dying program would be ecstatic over just a whiff of that attention and will sign him up. He will win and he will win a lot as long as he is left alone to his craft pretty much.

Coach G couldn’t handle a wife…..what made Burnfart think he could handle something as high maintenence as a UK fan? much less MILLIONS of them? prime example: tweeter. ashton kutcher and okra are the only one’s to garner as much twat attention as cal. the blue mist is everywhere!!! if you can’t breathe it 24/7 365 then you belong on another planet. sorry, rebreather’s don’t work here, bub.

I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

by bluecrip on May 29, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His perfomrance on the court

And even his demeanor off the court have nothing to do with the facts of this case. That’s where a lot of fans are getting their feet tangled up. Even Forty said above that Gillispie had no business being near the program… and that’s certainly a legitimate argument, but that has nothing to do with the facts of this case.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking as

someone with some law knowledge, you would never, ever be hired by another large law firm if you sued the last big law firm you worked with. Big law firms don’t want people that may turn on them, regardless of the reason for doing so in the past. You can start a firm on your own, but you don’t get the second chance.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not true.

I work for a big firm. I have friends working for BigLaw in NYC. Many people there have brought wrongful termination suits and the like after being “laid off” in the past few months, some find other work.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

COMPLETELY AGREE

Gillispie does not have a history of just going around suing people.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Touche'

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How the hell can that be so?

Sorry, Forty, but that’s just not rational.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Explained Why (My Opinion Only)

BCS schools don’t like to be sued by (blanks) like Gillispie.

He’s done at the BCS level of Div I schools.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are wrong.

Pure and simple.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Opinions Are Not "Wrong" Just Different

I never said it’s a fact. IT’S MY OPINION. Nothing more nor less.

Gillispie is done at the BCS level.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion, Tubby Smith Sucks.

Of course, I’m just joking and am quite fond of Orlando.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on May 28, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If There Were FACTS To Support That, Fine

There are not, yet many hold that exact opinion.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 28, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are no facts ...

… to support your opinion, none whatsoever. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

You have not. Not one. You have simply made baseless claims.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This feels rare for me, but...

I agree with Forty. Corporations do not like to hire people that have a history of suing their former employers. BCG, will wait a long time to get a good gig at a BCS school again. He will have to rehabilitate his employment history and show that he can “get along” with his bosses, regardless of whether he is in the right or not on this case.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe ...

… but in the end, given the facts of the case as far as I am concerned, I believe any such reservations would be overshadowed by performance.

On the other hand, I’m damn sure they would want his signature on a real, bona-fide contract. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this

a viable definition of an “MOU” because if so….I am less and less sure of Gillespie’s arguments every minute

A memorandum of understanding (MOU or MoU) is a document describing a bilateral or multilateral agreement between parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It most often is used in cases where parties either do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen’s agreement.

In some cases, depending on the exact wording, MoUs can have the binding power of a contract; as a matter of law, contracts do not need to be labeled as such to be legally binding. Whether or not a document constitutes a binding contract depends only on the presence or absence of well-defined legal elements in the text proper of the document (the so-called “four corners”). For example, a binding contract typically must contain mutual consideration—a legally enforceable obligations of the parties, and its formation must take place free of the so-called real defenses to contract formation (fraud, duress, lack of age or mental capacity, etc.).

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To form a K:

1. Offer (check)
2. Acceptance (check)
3. Mutality of consideration

To avoid statue of frauds issues, having a writing is a good idea. (check). The writing should be signed by the party against whom the K is being enforced (here, signed by both parties, check).

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not everything that looks like a contract is.

ALLBLUECAT’s post above is pretty good. If you reread that MOU you see all kind of things that say we will do this and we will do that upon the signing of a contract. Plus, you see all kinds of things that indicate a temporary agreement existed and that a permanent one was to be agreed to.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Official Disclaimer

“I am not a lawyer, have never been a lawyer, and will never be a lawyer….my grandmother forbids it….lol.”

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youre only worth

anything when we need you dog!!!….lol….thanks

Actually I am thinking of making Robert Shapiro my lawyer….lol

Let him “zoom” all my docs….lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying that to me,

the existence of a contract here is absolutely, 100% clear.

Whether that contract is enforceable is another issue.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say we put

bibskue on one side….lawdog on the other….and let them settle it….they seem to be up to speed….we do it for the publicity only and have Judge Judy decide……lol

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love it.

I was just thinking that maybe wk, bluesquire, and me need to team up and open a practice together. Heh.

My office is split between UK and UL (a few IU here and there) – practicing with all UK fans would be nice.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds to me like

Barnhart and Co. thought that an “MOU” was exactly the way to go because it left them with more “outs” in case of a problem…..wrong?

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I think they did the MOU ...

because they thought there would be a signed contract within days of coming to Lexington. They never dreamed that BCG would refuse to sign a true contract, were embarassed by the fact that he didn’t and tried to play it off whenever people asked about it.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then you disagree not agree w/forty

Forty says “never” rather than you more rational “…wait a long time…”. As you said, he will have to rehab his history. He’s young enough to rebuild his career and if he wins, he win regain his position in Div I.

by hoboat33 on May 29, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy Clyde will become the new Hal Mummy

Where is Hal now? Is the street still named after him? How many years was he at UK? How long was BC here?

by Fortunatus on May 28, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember, all these people we comment on are real

Last we heard on Mumme – a positive report after his prostate cancer detection earlier this year

by hoboat33 on May 29, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

little sanity moment

thank you hoboat33.

I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

by bluecrip on May 29, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A BCS-conference team...

…would sign Hitler if they thought he’d win games.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on May 28, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree there TB

Hitlers dead man … but he may have been reincarnated as Gillispie – they’d even look a little alike too if Clyde would grow one of those funny little brush looking things under his nose. All BCS schools would face a media frenzy like none other by considering Clyde …. Hope he keeps some polish on that “Big 12 coach of the year award” – doubt he’ll ever see another one of those.

by ukcris on May 29, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

………and his SEC coach of the year award?

by hoboat33 on May 29, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right on.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can name you 10 coaches that got that award that no longer have their jobs....lol

cant hang your hat on that one…..

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on May 29, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not hanging my hat on anything

Just saying dont act like he only ever received a “Big 12” coaching award cause he sure as hell got one in the SEC too.

LOL /sarcasam

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reference to B12 COY

was just one example … He was also Texas Coach of the Year with UTEP and a finalist for National Coach of the Year in 2002/03…. I just think he’s burned too many bridges … I can’t see a university looking into his background and asking him to explain himself with regards to the UK situaton and then somehow saying “oh … I see – that’s just what we want for the kids in our program”

by ukcris on May 29, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know

I guess we’ll see.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 29, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SEC coach of the year

He did a great job in conference that year. Too bad he had a losing record OOC.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on May 29, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty Clear

That winning games isn’t one of Gillispie’s strengths.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 30, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, the Courier Journal is reporting that

UK has sued Gillispie in Franklin Circuit Court. UK is alleging that it is the proper party, not the UKAA, and that there was no contract to breach.

I assume this is a declaratory judgment action, and they’re not actually seeking damages against Gillispie.

I’ve seen this done before too. . .it gets interesting when courts in different jurisdictions are deciding the same issues. I would expect to see Gillispie’s lawyers to file a motion asking the Franklin Circuit Court to either dismiss, or stay the proceedings there pending the Texas federal action. UK’s attorneys might very well do the same thing in Texas.

The first fight here, which could take weeks or months, will just be deciding which court, or whether both, should hear this action. The substantive issues won’t be addressed for a LONG time.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I should add--

From my experience, Texas state courts are VERY unlikely to stay or dismiss actions because of similar actions filed in other states. Texas state courts have a very high opinion of themselves. I can’t really say one way or the other if federal district courts there are like-minded.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Texas courts?

From my experience, which is not insignificant, Texans in general think very highly of themselves. They’re full of s*&t for the most part, but in a harmless way. Still, the egos…..

We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
ICQ: 591535544
Yahoo IM: jacksbrain

by SD_UK_FAN on May 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you would be correct.

crafty is a word i like to use when describing a Texan. and i don’t mean that in a necessarily bad way either.

the young ladies have the same attitude…… girls with big ego’s,……….ever hear of rodeo sex? ;>

I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

by bluecrip on May 29, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One other option-

Gillispie could likely remove UK’s action to federal district court in Kentucky because of diversity of citizenship, and therefore there are two federal actions pending.

A hiccup I missed above, however, is that the partires are different (i.e., UK in one, UKAA in the other). I’m not sure how this affects whether only one action goes forward, etc.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So he refiles the suit.

It’s also interesting that the MOU is on UKAA letterhead. Not that it matters, but it is pretty ambiguous as to who is paying what.

Still, if his paycheck was from UK, I would think UK would be the proper party.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He may try to refile

His problem though is that there is now an existing lawsuit in Kentucky state court, so he will most likely be told, deal with that one before you can file the new one.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking ...

… he would simply move to have the case removed to federal court. Based on the diversity of citizenship claim, and the ambiguity of where the agreement was made, it would probably happen.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure it's clear that UKAA is the wrong party right now.

Plus, again, there are sovereignty issues with suing state institutions.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His employer is not the UKAA.

His employer is UK. Saying otherwise would be to say that one works for the mailroom of IBM, not IBM.

by wklawdog on May 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what we have ...

… not unexpectedly, is a jurisdictional struggle. In the end, though, UK will wind up spending much more money on this. It will be interesting to see when they decide to cry “Uncle.”

This is simply wishful thinking on UK’s part. They are trying, quite reasonably, to fight a rear-guard action. I have a feeling that it won’t work out well for them. They hope that by this jurisdictional muddle, they will fatigue Gillispie. It might even work, but I don’t think so.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 28, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once thing he doesn't lack is toughness. Heh.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe the suit was filed in Federal Court, not State Court.

by hoboat33 on May 28, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep, I know.

I was pointing out my experience with Texas state courts, and then said I don’t know if the same is true for Texas federal courts.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 28, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nashville radio

  just reported a countersuit by UK. The fun is beginning…

by blupride on May 28, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I've been gone all day

And after reading through all this Gillispie and Calipari, I will say one thing. The summer months should be full of news and not boring. Not sure if that is good or bad, but it is what it is.

by kykat51 on May 28, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No news is bad news

especially when you have a brand to sell….er, i mean, a tradition to continue! ;)

I want to die while asleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

by bluecrip on May 29, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a bigger question

Could this be a landmark case,in that those involved with mega dollar contracts,who fail to sign within a specified time(60-90 days,seems reasonable,per MOU)then the contract provider would NOT be liable for the full amount,based on refusal to sign a contract?

by -Zoso- on May 28, 2009 8:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is just a guess here,

but it seems to me that UKAA is pretty much responsible for honoring the MOU in large part due to the fact that they were operating under the MOU when they were paying Gillispie, right? If they were paying him under the terms of the MOU, weren’t they in fact legitimizing it?

by BigSkyCat on May 28, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, it doesn't have to be legitamized.

It’s signed by both parties. A contract doesn’t have to say “Contract” on it in big bold letters to be such. I could title the document “My Ass,” but if it laid out terms, one party offered, the other party accepted, and there was consideration (all of which are present here), it’s a contract.

Whether it was breached is another story, but I just don’t buy how UK/UKAA can argue there was no contract.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

My layman’s understanding is that virtually any agreement, particularly one set down in writing, is a contract. Simplistic, and surely not the last word, but certainly a starting point.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gloss

from what i can tell, the biggest substantive sticking points will be the fact that the MOU doesn’t state what “for cause” means and says that the parties agree to negotiate in good faith. courts hate to fill in the blanks on stuff like that. so, yeah, i think it’s pretty clear we’re dealing with a contract here, but the terms of that contract are quite minimal

by chstrckwl on May 29, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that, to some extent.

Courts do hate to fill in the blanks (courts prefer to look at the “four corners of the agreement”), but that does not invalidate a contract. The meaning of “for cause” is probably ambiguous, since it is not spelled out in the MOU. Therefore, the court may look to extrinsic evidence, course of dealing, how “for cause” is defined in other, similar contracts, etc.

The fact of the matter, however, is that the buy-out provisions are not ambiguous, and that being the primary provision at stake, courts are prone to interpret it as, “it is what it is.”

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I'm partially wrong.

The language “for cause” is contained in the buy-out provision, so before a court can contrue that it has to determine whether “for cause” is ambiguous or not. Again, it’s not spelled out, so it probably is, so the court will, as is within its power, construe the meaning of for cause based on extrinsic evidence, the intentions of the parties, etc., though that could go to a jury as well.

After it construes for cause, it then has to determine whether Gillispie was terminated “for cause” within the meaning it decides on.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on May 29, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again ...

… that makes sense.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 29, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a small question,

and I am no way trying to say anything against your question Zoso. Not at all. It is about the BCG picture that Tru has on the front of this post…. Here, so you won’t have to scroll.

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed that this picture is one of those creepy pictures that looks as if his eyes follow you no matter what angle you look at it from? We have seen it here before, but every time I see it, It sort of gives me the creeps. LOL Not the person in it, don’t get me wrong, please.
It seems that a lot of us may need a laugh (optional) every now and then, especially now…..
:-)

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on May 28, 2009 8:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

?????

Really? (sigh)

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are