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SEC Basketball: A Forgettable Year

As the excitement over new Head Men's Basketball Coach John Calipari begins to subside (or at least reach something less than a fever pitch) and with the advent of the national championship game tonight between Michigan State and North Carolina (Go, Spartans!), I got to wondering if there was an easy explanation for why the SEC seemed at such an almost historical low this year when it comes to basketball.

It goes without saying that the SEC is a football-first conference.  Of the twelve schools that comprise the conference, there are really only three schools that can remotely be considered as basketball-first schools:  Kentucky, Arkansas and Vanderbilt.  Even though Florida has managed two national championships in recent years, there is no way they belong in this category, and they and Tennessee are the only other SEC schools at which basketball is well-supported.

Given this fact, one might think that the SEC should be average at best among BCS conferences in basketball every year, but we know that history belies this conclusion.  However, this year produced some astoundingly bad basketball by SEC standards, and ultimately resulted in only three bids to the NCAA tournament out of the  SEC, the lowest number since 1990.  But since 1980, the SEC has been fourth among BCS conferences in NCAA Tournament appearances at 137, only two behind the much more basketball-centric Atlantic Coast Conference (139).  The Big Ten and the Big East have 148 and 146 respectively.  But the SEC is tied for 2nd with the Big Ten in Final Four appearances at 16, and tied for second in championships with the Big Ten at five apiece.  The ACC leads in both those categories.

Star-divide

So with all that said, why was the SEC so down this year?  I can think of several reasons:

  • Coaching changes.  The last two years have seen seven new coaches at six SEC schools.  I believe that to be a high among BCS conferences.
  • The graduation of the '04's.  2004 was a great recruiting class for the SEC, and that class was primarily responsible for Florida's back-to-back championships.
  • 2005 was the lost year.  That was the last year players could go straight to the NBA from high school, and that class produced a major number of defections for the SEC.
  • A down year in 2006.  The SEC had only 6 top-50 recruits (a 4-year low) in 2006 compared with 9 for the ACC and Pac-10.
  • Youth.  The SEC had solid years in 2007 and 08, but those classes have yet to mature.

Coaching changes set programs back.  Some might point to the relative success of Pelphrey at Arkansas last year and Trent Johnson this year at LSU, but keep in mind that both those guys inherited senior-dominated squads.  After he lost all his seniors, Pelphrey's squad at Arkansas went into the tank.  Expect that to happen to some degree at LSU next year.

It takes a long time for the culture of a new coach to "take" at a school.  We have seen this many times before, and there are usually some bumps in the road before the new coach can fully integrate his system.  In the SEC, Dennis Felton simply never managed to get the moribund Georgia program off the ground, and Alabama under Mark Gottfreid recruited great but underachieved perhaps more than any team in college basketball.  Look for both those schools to become more competitive under their new management.

Coaching changes also create recruiting challenges.  Even though Coach Calipari will be expected to recruit well right away at Kentucky, the fact of the matter is that he will have to work much harder at it than he did at Memphis, at least for a while.  Memphis was a known commodity to recruits, and Calipari's system was very attractive to them.  It will take a while before the Kentucky brand becomes synonymous with the Calipari Dribble Drive Motion Offense, and during that time, Coach Cal will have to work very hard to bring in quality guys until the new UK culture takes root.

So let's take a look at the SEC schools, briefly, and their prospects for next year:

 

Alabama:  Of the three SEC schools who changed coaches this year, expect Alabama under Anthony Grant to show the most dramatic improvement. Alabama brings in a very strong recruiting class including Shawn Kemp and Tony Mitchell.  Alabama loses Brandon Hollinger and Alonzo Gee to graduation, but I think overall this team should be better next year than this, and will likely be in the field of 64. Alabama is not nearly as bereft of talent as Georgia is, Grant is a terrific recruiter and his system very attractive.

Georgia:  Georgia under Mark Fox should do well also, but I think it will take him a few years to bring Georgia back from where they are right now.  Georgia has little coming in to the program next year, and loses two good players in Terrance Woodbury and Corey Butler to graduation.  If Trey Thompkins stays for another year, Fox will build his offense around him and Georgia could be fairly competitive, but I can't see them in the NCAA's for at least two more years.

South Carolina:  Darrin Horn had a great first year as South Carolina coach, but I would not be surprised to find that he hits a bit of a sophomore slump next year with Zam Fredrick graduating.  His recruiting class for this year is mediocre, and even though he may pick up a recruit or two, USC still looks like a smallish team that may suffer a lot with the loss of Fredrick's shooting.  I would not count on them to make the tourney next year, although Horn's history so far has been one of over-achievement, so I am very reluctant to write him off.

Florida:  I expect both Florida and Kentucky to be pretty good next year.  Florida just keeps getting better with the addition of Kenny Boynton and Deshawn Painter.  Donovan's team looks like they will compete with UK for the SEC title next year, and Florida's mature group looks very strong for next year and should be a lock for the NCAA tournament, perhaps even at a high seed.

Kentucky: Kentucky, should John Calipari be able to manufacture or recruit a point guard, should be very good to excellent next year, and the battles with Florida should be epic.  Depending on what Meeks and Patterson do, and with the addition of Orton and Hood, UK should have the kind of team that can manage a top four seed in the NCAA's next year.

Tennessee:  Tennessee, on the other hand, looks to be weaker next year than at any time in the Pearl tenure.  With only Kenny Hall, a 6'8" power forward out of Georgia coming in and "Mr. Everything" Tyler Smith graduating may not be back, I expect next year's Tennessee team to be no better and perhaps considerably worse better only if Smith comes back than this year's was.  I think UT will make the tournament next year, but I don't see a high seed in their immediate future.

Arkansas:  Arkansas will be much improved next year, and the recruiting class they have coming in is just OK.  If Pelphrey wants to renew the Arkansas-Kentucky rivalry (and, oh yeah, preserve his job) he needs to recruit a bit stronger in 2010, or develop some of his less skilled players rapidly.  Arkansas has several pieces of the puzzle, but it remains to be seen if Pelphrey can manufacture some fits out of spare parts.

LSU:  Depending on Tasmin Mitchell's status, LSU looks to have a solid team next year, but they will lose a major chunk of their team when Marcus Thornton and Garrett Temple graduate.  Bo Spencer will be back, but it looks to me like LSU is going to struggle to score next year.  I figure them at 50/50 to make the NCAA tournament, and a high seed does not look likely to me.

Vanderbilt:  Vanderbilt gets a lot better next year, and I would be very surprised if they did not make the tournament at a mid-seed.  Not only do some of their young players get a year older, but John Jenkins, a remarkable scoring machine, will be coming in next year.  Jenkins is the real deal, and should thrive in Stallings' offense.  Vandy is likely to be a dangerous team if they manage to keep Andrew Ogilvy.

Mississippi State:  With the likely loss of Jarvis Varnado, Mississippi State looks like it will struggle a bit more this year than last.  They do have talent and Stansbury is a solid coach, but they will be a smallish team with good shooters.  MSU could surprise, as they have done so many times before, but I'm thinking the comp next year will be a lot better and expose them a lot more.

Auburn:  Jeff Lebo at Auburn brings in a very solid recruiting class for an SEC basketball team that has almost no fan support.  Lebo has overachieved at Auburn this year, but with the loss of most of his scoring to graduation, I expect the Tigers to be significantly worse next year than they were this year.  Next year's team will be young and not particularly talented, and I don't put much hope in the chances of them making the NCAA tournament.

Ole Miss:  Ole Miss was better than expected this year, and has enough talent to be a very solid squad next year as some of their better players return from season-ending injuries.  Andy Kennedy has a small but talented recruiting class, and if Terrico White returns, this small team could be very dangerous.  I put their chances of making the NCAA tournament at about 60/40 in favor of making the field.

That's the SEC as I see it.  Last year, I predicted that 2008-09 would be a return to normalcy with Florida, Tennessee and UK all competing for the top spot in the conference, but that turned out to be wrong on many levels.  I'm making the same prediction next year with an emphasis on Florida and Kentucky.  Of course, a lot can change between now and then with NBA defections, transfers, and late recruiting signees.  But no matter what, I expect the SEC to be much stronger overall next year and return to five or six NCAA tournament bids.

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Word here in Arkansas

is Pelphrey needs some new assistant coaches. Ones that can help him recruit better.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe So But

Arkansas landed a Top 10 to 15 rated class in 2008.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely In That Range

Rotnei Clarke, Courtney Fortson, Jason Henry (et al) are well regarded recruits.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last Year's Class = 2008

That’s what I posted above.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Would Be A Knee-Jerk Reaction

Replace assistants when they don’t sign everybody you want 1 year?

Thankfully AD’s don’t think think (or act) like “fans” do.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not in this case

Evans is talking about retiring anyway.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Take

My only disagreement is with Arkansas being a basketball school first. I think that they are a football school first. Now I don’t know that for sure but just based on my Arkansas friends here…..I told them when Pel was hired “hey you got a good coach”, they were like “we got a new basketball coach?”…..lol. These same people could probably list 70 percent of Arkansas’ roster in football.

I forsee at list seven bids next year for the SEC. The SEC in two to three years will be more competitve then the Big East…..bank on it.

One thing that I have a question about…………..what will it take to even up basketball/football for these schools?

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Eddie Sutton And Nolan Richardson "Converted" Arkansas To Basketball School

Certainly back in the Frank Broyles (coaching) days, Arkansas was more noted for football.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tenken has is correct

Arkansas is primarily a football school. Nolan and Eddie brought excitement to the basketball program but the majority of the Arkansas fans are interested in football. There was no conversion just some excitement for another sports program.

Matter of fact the track and field program has been more widely touted than the basketball program, even during the Sutton and Nolan eras.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arkansas

is definitely more football than basketball at this point and probably for the next couple of years. Richardson and Sutton are ancient history from the fans point of view and they’d just as soon forget about Richardson – bad final memories still exist.

by hoboat33 on Apr 6, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not too many Arkansan's

are trying to forget Richardson. mostly the white ones.

Also, Arkansas has primarily been a football rich school going back to their days in the Southwest Conference. There is no, “at this point” Football has reigned supreme in this state for a long while and will continue to do so.

Don’t get me wrong, they like their basketball, Bud Walton gets packed for “good” games, but even with some good Arkansas squads the non-conference games don’t draw UK-like crowds.

by bluecrip on Apr 7, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably take a lot

especially in places like Florida where back to back championships don’t even excite the fanbase.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not likely ever to change for the traditional football powerhouses

Think about what would happen if UK football actually contended for the BCS consistently. I’m sure we’d all be overjoyed—I was giddy after the LSU win two seasons ago—but I’m also sure it wouldn’t reach the same level as basketball for us.

If the UK football team got great for a while, we’d be super-thrilled, but then if they sunk back into mediocrity, we’d probably think something along the lines of, “oh well, that was fun while it was lasted. Now what’s the latest news on the basketball recruits?” That’s probably how it is with Florida fans and the simultaneous success they’ve had in hoops and football (reversing the sports, of course).

by WildcatFanInDC on Apr 6, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

very good

analogy that I agree with

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Florida

Won 2 national championships and they still aren’t a basketball school!

by MinnesotaCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mississippi schools

I don’t have much of a read on the fans down there…are they way more into football than basketball? Miss. St. in particular has had some decent hoops success in the last 15-20 years.

by WildcatFanInDC on Apr 6, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mississippi schools

i have a handful of friends there and I used to live there and football is the dominant sport, then comes drinking

basketball is a winter diversion until spring break for most folks there.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gotcha

For Kentucky, couldn’t you swap football and basketball in that description, while leaving drinking where it is, and get an equally accurate read on the fanbase? ;)

by WildcatFanInDC on Apr 6, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Yeah, when I was studying abroad I met several guys that went to Ole Miss. I can’t speak for the fan base, but those guys were definitely football fans before all else.

by ben-p on Apr 6, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally couldn't answer that

as I have never lived in the great Commonwealth of Kentucky.

Military brat. Dad from Louisville hence the UK love (even though he’s a Card fan primarily)

But from suggestions by other UK fans I would surmise that you are correct! :)

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Georgia, Alabama, LSU and Auburn...

could keep their home-grown talent in-state, it would help those programs immensely. All three states have lost a lot of local talent to other schools in the past.

To a lessor extent, the same could be said for Florida. The problem with Florida, however, is the lack of a solid high school basketball infrastructure. The focus rests solely on football in Florida high school athletics and as a result players coming out of Florida are light on fundamentals.

by jbt36 on Apr 6, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Umm, you put Ole Miss at

64/40 in favor of getting in the tourny? 104%. . .

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

andy kennedy it that good

you gotta give him an extra 4% :)

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he gets 4% for his right cross

Ask the cabbie…

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well played.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Story Is Inaccurate

There was a dispute but no punch thrown.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laugh with us, 40. . .

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Funny

AK is a distant friend. He’s getting (blanked) by an inaccurate story.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies. I forgot he's a (distant) friend.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Don't Know Him That Well But I Do Know Him

The cabbie called his (African-American) assistant the N-word.

As in, Shut Up (N). That would piss me off, too.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so he got mad but didn't throw the punch?

??
huh
?

BTW, just say black, African-American is so lame.

by bluecrip on Apr 7, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Have African-American Grandchildren

I prefer to use that term if you don’t mind.

Sure, the entire Ole Miss staff got pissed at the cabbie. Wouldn’t you?

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 7, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Use what you want

it just adds to the PC driven society that is labeling and boxing people in.

yes i would get mad if someone called my friend a N, enough so that i would probably land a punch

by bluecrip on Apr 7, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No One Boxing Anyone In

I think the A-A term is more appropriate.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 7, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's fine

last i’ll say about this…..

what do you call a black guy from Brazil? London? Canada, eh?

don’t call them African American cause they may not be too happy to be called American. my friend Devon told me that he would say, “First, I ain’t from Africer and I definitely ain’t no Yank”

He’s British by the way. :)

by bluecrip on Apr 8, 2009 6:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From The UK, "British"

From Canada, “Canadian”

From Brazil, “Brazilian”

Originally from Africa but whose ancestors came to America as slaves, “African-American”

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 8, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

D. Downey.

Any chance he goes pro this season? I suppose he’s VERY small for an NBA PG, but he’s very good. Maybe next year?

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

From what I understand, Downey's NBA prospects are not very good at this point...

I have heard, though, that he may consider Europe. For our sake, I hope he stays. Unlike Tru, I think Zam Fredrick can be replaced, as we have some decent shooters on the bench and some underrated prospects coming in with the recruiting class. If Downey comes back, I think we have a chance to make the tournament depending on how the ball rolls in the close games, but if he takes off, I expect a Georgia-like season next year.

Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com

by Gamecock Man on Apr 6, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, GM.

And good luck — hope for your sake he sticks around. He’s certainly a great player.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does ANYONE think that we honestly

HONESTLY are ever going to compete in the SEC East in Football?? People we have had good, outstanding, and even great kids in our football program and it isnt even making a dent so far…I love being bowl eligible, but are we really making REAL progress…..I appreciate what Coach Brooks has accomplished, but I think he will be a blip on the radar for us…..we just have too many mountains to climb in football.

Remember, were having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 6, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Blip on the radar"

It may be a blip on the radar for other schools, but it has to be taken in context for our school. Winning three bowls in a row was something that had never been accomplished in school history. That is something to be proud of.

Can we compete in the SEC-East? Its hard to say. Kiffin at UT is an unknown commodity right now. Florida and Georgia are certainly major stumbling blocks. Kentucky should certainly expect to put a better product on the field than they have in years past though.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Apr 6, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Expectation

are a huge part in what “success” means to UK fans in football. You are very right about that. Success is very general in sports. It depends on expectations. We saw that first hand with out last hire. In Georgia BG would have gotten a raise no matter about the fit. In Kentucky he lost his job. Well in Geogia, if Brooks had the same results……he would be fired. At Kentucky he is praised…..as he should be.

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good points.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have

given up trying to figure out the SEC East/West in football. I think that Florida will have a bad year in their standards anyway…..and I fully admit that its more of a hope then anything. Georgia, just dont’ know. Stafford/ Morani(sp?) is a huge loss for them. Kentucky, who knows but with Brooks recruiting class its looking better but the competition is going to be harder this year. Tennessee-that is my pick to win the SEC East. Its not because of Kiffin either. We(yes we, I am orange in the fall) have had one year of learning the spread offense. I am looking forward to seeing how well they do with it this year. Eric Berry is a star and I feel sorry for any QB that has to throw in his direction. I cannot wait to see what Monty Kiffin does with this kid to make him EVEN better. Our QB is the weakness right now. Crompton was horrid last year and all signs point to him starting again, but again the spread offense really messed us up and that OC did not do well teaching it last year. Vandy, will have another down year I think. Who knows about South Carolina. I think Kentucky finishes fourth this year in football. Its just too hard.

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason that UK is a basketball school

is simple. Every kid can play in his own backyard. I’m older than most on here and can remember when the only football played in Jackson Purchase was Paducah Tilghman,little Murray High and Mayfield. That was 3 schools out of 15 to 20. We were not taught about football. I’ve have seen 1 game in my life and didn’t know what was going on or where the ball was most of the time.

Happy Days are here again
The sky is all ways BLUE again
Happy days are here again

by oldcat70 on Apr 6, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK will compete for SEC East title

in near future. Consistently? Welllll, if the current trend continues maybe but it’s tough to stop the juggernaut that is Florida football. A lot of it has to do with perception by the players. UK is taking the right steps to get higher quality recruits, but when we start to get 4 and 5 stars consistently rolling in then and only then will UK compete for the SEC East and to some extent SEC title regularly.

Confucius say," It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop."

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

you know

I just despise Florida. I mean DESPISE THEM!

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

me too..!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Apr 6, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good overview of the conference Tru

I thought a lot of the hand wringing over the conference last year was kind of funny actually. Everyone always wants to turn these kinds of things into a grand statement about a conference when the truth is the struggles of last year were a blip on the radar, not indicative of some overall trend. Every conference goes through these periods. Heck, it wasn’t too long ago the ACC had a string of seasons with just 3 bids to the tournament.

Many things will change between now and next season and there are always surprise players who come out of nowhere or elevate their game beyond what was expected. Looking ahead, I think the SEC will be looking at 4-5 teams that get an NCAA bid. UK and Florida will surely be better, though both will depend on what happens with the draft. You can probably add Ole Miss to that group too. After that there are 5-6 teams that could go either way, and I expect 1 or 2 of them to do better than expected simply because that’s what always happens.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Apr 6, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why doesn't anyone want the Arizona job..?

ESPN is reporting that, Sean Miller will not take the job… How many coaches have turned it down now…?

Very strange considering that Arizona was once considered a prime job in college basketball…

Maybe they should go after, … dare I say it…? Oh what hell… Billy G….. You never know…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Apr 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Other people may like Billy, you know.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

Arizona is in a similar situation that UK was in 2 years ago. Coaches look at the talent coming back and it just isn’t that strong. IMHO, I think the UK job was much more desirable this time around then it was 2 years ago simply because of the group of players which are coming back and the recruits that are coming in. Say what you will about BCG, I think his recruiting in the 2 years he was here was better than Tubby’s last few years here. If I’m not mistaken, Arizona is losing 2 or 3 players to the NBA and they don’t have much depth to speak of coming back.

by goinss1 on Apr 6, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree.

I truely believe that the last two Smith years definitely added to the lack luster that would become the Billy Gillispie years.

Disclaimer: I KNOW someone is ready to jump all over this, but let me just put out there that I DO NOT CARE what is rebutted here. THIS IS MY OPINION.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well ...

… To be fair to both, I think that Patterson would not have wound up here if Smith hadn’t done a good job laying the groundwork. The loss of Derek Jasper really hurt more than it should have, and Gillispie did a great job of rescuing the Patterson recruitment after Smith left.

But keep in mind that Smith recruited Crawford and Bradley, and those guys were the big reason that the 2007 season was saved, along with Patterson. It was a combination of things that made things harder for Gillispie, including the slow development of Liggins and the inability of any of his PG recruits to lead the team.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understant this

however, I do feel that the state of the program – be it real or imagined – was not “good” when the search began in 2007. Gilispie filled the holes as best he could with what was out there.

As far as being fair to both, I dont think that often happens.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last 4 Years

22-13. 22-12. 18-13. 22-14.

Not that different.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am thinking its very possible to see BG

to take either Arizona or Memphis. Bill Self said that he is going to take off a year but I have a feeling that he might think about these two. They are both good coaching jobs and I don’t want to see him take anything less then a BCS conference job

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kentucky Sports Radio linked to a Memphis Commerical Appeal

article stating Gillispie was showing interest in Memphis. I couldn’t get the article itself to open—actually, the entire Commerical Appeal website was down.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It...

basically talked about how it wouldn’t be a good move on Memphis’ part, but that he had shown interest.

by the spork on Apr 6, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arizona Alums Opinion

I have two expatriate friends who are Arizona alums and their opinion is that the whole Lute Olson on-again, off-again matter has seriously tainted the program and similarly affected Jim Livengood. They contend that Olson’s ego and tendency to make Wildcat basketball all about him will be hard to overcome. They say that the inability to attract Mark Few was an indicator of the grievous nature of the situation.

by Wild Weasel on Apr 6, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The whole Kevin O'Neal thing

was really odd, and I’m sure there was a lot more to that story. But I can’t imagine that failing to entice Mark Few is an indicator of anything too serious. Few seems pretty happy and entrenched at Gonzaga.

by Ontherocks on Apr 6, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

I don’t think there is a school out there who can move Mark Few. His name seems to always come up, but for the foreseeable future, he looks like he is where he wants to be.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gillispie To Memphis?

The appearance of trading coaches with Kentucky would be odd, if not off-putting to some.

by Wild Weasel on Apr 6, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

BCG will not be a good fit in Memphis

after Coach Cal and his style of play have been there so long, I dont see those folks taking to BCG’s style of play. They need to go after Calipari’s #1 assistant. I know people down there that have said that they couldnt believe the Gillespie hire in the first place due to his indifference in the “other” side of coaching. Memphis has come to expect a truly complete coach. And a truly complete community guy. I just dont think Coach Gillespie wants to do a lot of that.

Remember, were having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 6, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like a baseball trade

Complete with Players To Be Named Later

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Apr 6, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unlike most ...

.. I don’t think Arizona is that great a job. Arizona was pretty much a cult of personality built around Olson. I think they may have to settle for an up and comer, quite honestly. Sean Miller wants the Pittsburgh job, and Jamie Dixon hasn’t been offered his dream job yet (hint: Arizona isn’t it.).

I think Gillispie would surely be interested in the Arizona job, and quite possibly somebody like Scott Drew from Baylor would be a quality hire. The problem is, Arizona sees itself as a job on par with the big boys, and it just isn’t.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I...

believe Gillispie gets an interview before him.

by the spork on Apr 6, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That ...

… sounds right to me.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So now that UA is off the boards

is Pastner the guy for a team like Xavier?? I would love a back and forth with Xavier every other year or even every year

Remember, were having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 6, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baylor fixing to get investigated by NCAA

I’m not totally 100% positive but I have heard suggestions around the sports “water-cooler”.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tru

you are right again, my big question is, Why didnt Arizona build on their 90’s successes?…they were on their way to becoming the new UCLA out in the west and then it just kind of fizzled…..what happened??

Remember, were having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 6, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They had some pretty good success in the early-mid 2000's

Remember they were in the title game against Duke in 2001 and were an incredible Illinois comeback from getting to the final 4 in 2005. They also had a really good team in 2003 that was ranked #1 for most of the season until UK caught them in the final AP poll. Actually, as I think about it, there are some similarities between Arizona and UK over the past decade.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Apr 6, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, were we extremely lucky

to get our new coach, or was he lucky to get us??
I used to believe we were entitled by birth to the very best of everything, but anymore I have been a bit humbled by our circumstances.

Remember, were having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 6, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both

but UK moreso.

He has been getting the kids the UK program, like many others, desires. His style is closer to what UK fans desire. He basically has been operating the way UK fans desire but at a different locale.

He gets a top tier program to operate and feed his ego as he desires.

by bluecrip on Apr 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there is any luck involved

Arizona and UK have both been in decline the last 4 years, but for very different reasons. As others have pointed out, Arizona’s success has been very coach-centric whereas UK has a tradition of success that cannot be attributed to any one individual. UK’s tradition makes it easier to get back on track – UNC and UCLA are two recent examples of this. If UK hadn’t gotten Calipari they would have gotten someone else that would get things back up to traditional standards.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Apr 6, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

Arizona is in a similar situation that UK was in 2 years ago. Coaches look at the talent coming back and it just isn’t that strong. IMHO, I think the UK job was much more desirable this time around then it was 2 years ago simply because of the group of players which are coming back and the recruits that are coming in. Say what you will about BCG, I think his recruiting in the 2 years he was here was better than Tubby’s last few years here. If I’m not mistaken, Arizona is losing 2 or 3 players to the NBA and they don’t have much depth to speak of coming back.

by goinss1 on Apr 6, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's ...

… a good point. UK looks much better right now than it did after Smith left, because Patterson was unsigned and there was significant doubt (whether or not warranted) if he would wind up here.

Gillispie did a good job, not a great job, recruiting. I also think he made some mistakes taking recruits more than one year away. But he did get some quality players to commit to UK and did a fantastic job of rescuing Patterson.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arizona Job

Just read on Yahoosports.com that Miller changed his mind and has accepted the UA job.

Lane

by Laird on Apr 6, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

7 years for 18 million

 might have been a hold up!

Happy Days are here again
The sky is all ways BLUE again
Happy days are here again

by oldcat70 on Apr 6, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thad Matta Junior!

Matta did the same thing to Xavier.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats...

the ESPN we all know and love.

by the spork on Apr 6, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gillispie to Xavier? ;)

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard...

to see him going to the northeast, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Now to mid-major positions available that have national recognition. May be just what he needs.

by the spork on Apr 6, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Northeast???

Xavier is located in southern Ohio…Cincinnati area to be exact. Thats hardly the northeast. :-)

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 6, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt it

Xavier always seems to get the up and comer out of nowhere

Skip Prosser (RIP), Thad Matta, Sean Miller

Before them Pete Gillian. I always root for Xavier.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prosser Was Assistant To Gillen at XU

Miller was assistant to Mtta, who came to X from Butler.

I think X will try to promote from within.

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I am very surprised. Well, there you go.

He should do quite well there, if he doesn’t pull a Dana Altman. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TLT confirms

Goodman

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, it's Opening Day

Go Reds!

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Boo A-Roid!

lol

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats...

a cheap shot. You know most of our players are as clean as anyone named Giambi.

by the spork on Apr 6, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

I can’t stand the Red Sox, mostly because of the man-love ESPN throws at them, so I root for the Yanks when those two play.

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously??

I thought I was the only Yankee fan in existance here! :)

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kentucky can't win a title unless the Yankees win in the same year

Therefore, I pull for the Yankees by default!!!

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Apr 6, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Chirop

I have a professional question for you. Mind if I shoot you an email?

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fire away.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My personal email and a link to my office site

Are both in my profile.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, who are these "Yankees" and "Red Sox" of which you guys speak?

I don’t recall ever seeing them in the NCAA tournament. Are they division II or NAIA?

by wklawdog on Apr 6, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are not alone

Lifelong Yankee fan owing to my upbringing in the Northeast. Love baseball season and the pinstripes.

by TXCat on Apr 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BOO. Go good Cards.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony LaRussa is a drunk!

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

j/k by the way

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 6, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I suppose I can't really refute that. . .

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watch What You Say

we aren’t to run down other people!

Happy Days are here again
The sky is all ways BLUE again
Happy days are here again

by oldcat70 on Apr 6, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wahoo!

Go Cards!! Love the Cardinals!

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you an STL fan?

Yippee. It’s going to be a great year – Carpenter and Wainright both healthy. . .

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh

yeah……..I converted over from the Reds. I got to see Mark M. hit three homers in St.Louis and I was converted. Its the one team my whole family agrees on and roots for together. Last year was not good. I am hoping that they do much better this year!

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, last year hurt, though their record wasn't terrible. The NL Central ended up being tougher than usual.

Cubs are the likely NL Central winners (maybe), but the Cards should at least solidly be in the wild card race, if not win the NL Central. Down with the Brewers.

Yeah, maybe I’m getting ahead of myself. It’s a LONG season, but I’m VERY excited to have our two aces healthy and ready to pitch again.

I grew up in Eastern Kentucky, and often traveled up the AA Highway to Cincinnati to catch Reds games, but I just never became a fan. I became a Cards fan during the first of my three year stint in St. Louis.

The new stadium is a ton of fun, if you ever get a chance to catch a game there.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

love to go to a game but dadgum the tickets are HIGH! We might go this summer. My son so wants to go to a game. He loves his Pujols jersey and wants to wear it. We went to Houston last year and saw the Astros stadium and got a tour. He loved it. He bought a Astors hat to remember the occasion so on Saturday he was wearing his Cardinals jersey with his Astors hat. I told him that is like wearing a Kentucky shirt and Duke hat. Just doesn’t go together :). The Cards lost today :(

Kentucky bretheren united once again! Thanks Cal!

by tenken on Apr 6, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This reply might not get to you, but

there is a website where season ticket holders can put their unused tickets up for sale, but through the organization. You can find some pretty good deals on good seats.

I’ll try to remember what the site is. . .

I attended Wash U for law school (in Anheuser Busch Hall), and we had access to tickets pretty readily (at Busch stadium). I assume to connection is obvious.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 7, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Traitor!

lol…….that’s ok, the Reds have Jocketty, so it is a fair trade….

Envy our past......Fear our future

by btcoop71 on Apr 7, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen!!

Happy Days are here again
The sky is all ways BLUE again
Happy days are here again

by oldcat70 on Apr 6, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go A's! Beat the Angels!

Mike Scioscia = whiniest coach/manager in all of professional sports.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Apr 6, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about my "Red Birds"

Happy Days are here again
The sky is all ways BLUE again
Happy days are here again

by oldcat70 on Apr 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate baseball

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 6, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate it ...

… I just don’t like it enough to watch it. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball is a different animal

No gameclock to affect the outcome of a game.And, unlike most other sports,the defense actually has the ball : )

by -Zoso- on Apr 7, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good piece Tru, as usual

and yes I too must say about tonight’s game (Go Spartans) LOL and I think the Bluegrass would enjoy seeing the Green grass flourish tonight….

Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I certainly prefer green ...

… over the alternative. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 6, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Josh Pastner new head coach at Memphis

According to Gary Parrish. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11600010

Tough loss for us—he’s known as a tireless recruiter.

He’s only 31, sheesh.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Apr 6, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A couple things on Tennessee
Even though Florida has managed two national championships in recent years, there is no way they belong in this category, and they are the only other SEC school at which basketball is well-supported.

What does it take to be considered “well-supported”?

Tennessee has drawn top 5 attendance the past 5 years, and had been a regular in the top 20 long before Bruce Pearl arrived.

Also, Tyler Smith still has a year of eligibility left. He will test the draft waters as he should but has been on record as being 50/50 on leaving FWIW.

Assuming he does leave. Tennessee returns the rest of their starting 5 and basically their entire bench. So while you may end up being correct in your predictions, I don’t see how you can clearly expect the Vols to be considerably worse next year.

"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it."

by Getoffmyvols on Apr 7, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

*Typo* past 3 years

"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it."

by Getoffmyvols on Apr 7, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well ...

… I should apologize for lumping you guys in with the rest of the SEC. You actually do support basketball very well. Please forgive my omission there, I think I was still a bit tired. I will correct that.

Regarding Tyler Smith, that was just an error on my part, which I will also correct.

If Smith is back next year, I think you will definitely be better next year than this. If not, I think the Vols will likely be worse. Smith is just not easily replaceable, and I don’t see anywhere on your roster that you can get what he brings.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 7, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way ...

… thanks for the corrections. I think I was still half asleep when I wrote this piece. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 7, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries

You do a great job here and I’m looking forward to the Calipari Pearl match ups!

"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it."

by Getoffmyvols on Apr 7, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should be ...

… Tons of fun! :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 8, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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