Poll: Kentucky roster 2010
by kyeric on Apr 2, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
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Will Kentucky make Coach Calipari honor commitments and "do the right thing"? Or will Kentucky decide to push kids out the door to get an entirely new stellar class of athletes that could compete for a National Championship by next season?
Exciting new developments from a team that just a little over a week ago lost in the NIT to now having an elite coach making serious changes to UK's squad...
I would like to get others thoughts on this and see who should stay, who should go, and what we might lose even if we win it all next season.
I have my own opinions about what Coach Calipari wants to do with the current players. I really believe that even though Kentucky would have a chance to take the Memphis commitments and have the top 3 players in the country suit up for us, I think this should come down to a Coach and a program that should put the idea of loyalty and honor above winning. Yes, I said it.
I do not want Kentucky to fail, but even with Orton and Hood coming, we could be a top 15-25 team next season. This is miles away from where we were 3-4 years ago. I don't buy the whole "Porter should concentrate on his studies" baloney. This is a nice way of saying "Thanks, but no thanks. You just aren't good enough to wear that jersey anymore." Do I think players like Porter are going to excel in Calipari system? No. But, this is about young men who give it their all to come and bust their asses every day to compete at Kentucky.
I think we owe them more than our thanks.
Best case scenario...
Kentucky does the unthinkable:
1. Calipari "trims" the roster and dumps kids to open scholarships for the #1, #2, and #3 players in the nation on top of Orton and Hood.
2. Meeks and Patterson stick around and Kentucky wins big...going undefeated.
3. Kentucky blisters through the Big Dance and yes, we win the NCAA Championship.
4. Some call it the best college basketball team ever assembled.
As amazing as all of that sounds, we must ask ourselves if winning is so paramount that it would mean breaking a kids heart, taking away his scholarship, making them lose a year of eligibilty and proving to the nation that Kentucky does not honor commitments.
I say it is not worth it.
Go Cats.
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Scholarships
The scholarship is up for renewal every year and is not a four year contract. Whether or not to renew and for how much is based on performance.
I guess the three questions I have to raise are:
1) If you are a Division I level athlete and the new coach’s system, or style of training, does not suit you (guaranteeing you ride the pine for the next two – three years), do you want to stay?
2) How was Gillispie going to handle the three incoming scholarships he committed to without “breaking the heart of a kid” on the current roster?
3) How did Tubby handle Rod Rhodes his first year as coach?
Athletes know what they are getting into and know there are no guarantees when it comes to their scholarships. Cal should be honest with the kids (incoming and enrolled) and let the chips fall where they may.
by iamnotastrongswimmer on Apr 2, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
Scholarships
Sorry that was How did Rick handle Rod Rhodes…
by iamnotastrongswimmer on Apr 2, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
Well...
To the best of my recollection… he was at the school for three years before he even had Rod Rhodes on the roster. (Rhodes was a freshman during the Final Four run in 1992-1993.)
If however you are referring to the handling of Ron Mercer in 1995-1996… he did indeed let Rhodes know that he’d be better served playing somewhere else for his senior year. Rhodes took the advice and was unexpectedly drafted late in the first year in 1997. Mercer was drafted in the top ten that same year. Worked out well for all involved.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Not Exactly
Rhodes was offered a redshirt option (to improve his FG % shooting) after pulling out of the NBA draft in 1995.
Rhodes CHOSE to transfer to USC instead.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 2, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
stupid question ...
you presume that the choice is between “running off a player” and “keeping him and letting him play.”
that’s not really it. Calipari said rather bluntly that he would talk to each of the players about the program and see if THEY wanted to stay. If porter’s not going to be any good in the system, he might choose to get out now, or go out for the football team, or … I’m not saying that is what he should do. I like the kid, and think a lot of the grief is undeserved (he’s not a point guard, don’t judge him as one). but really, he may not want to stay, especially if Calipari brings in a point guard. He’s not starting over meeks or any of the other guards, and at point he’s out of his element. Think he might want to head somewhere else so he can?
Come on this aint the 5th grade
These are big boys and we as fans appreciate their effort. I don’t believe in winning at ALL COSTS, but by all legal means I want the best players at UK. We have already endured 10 years of no sniff of the national championship and that is enough. The slanted phrasing of the poll question is the only reason this poll is close.
by chrisgettlefinger on Apr 2, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
No Sniff? 10 Years?
Too bad you missed 2003 (UK had #1 team in the nation) and 2005 (came within a whisker of FF).
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 2, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No Final Four
If you don’t qualify for The Final Four you may be able to watch or listen but you can’t smell it, nor feel the exhilaration of participating, nor reap the conspicuously large succeeding rewards that come with the attainment.
Then Only 1942-48-49-51-58-66-75-78-84-93-96-97-98 Were "Worth It" For U
But U missed seasons like 1954, 1970, 1977, 1986, 1995, and 2003 then.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 2, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitino did not have Rhodes his first year as coach I don't think.
Pitino said once after Rhodes went to the NBA that he would never draft another player like him that did not love basketball. One of the funniest things I’ve ever seen was when he made all the ’95 team including Rhodes ride horses and they had a clip of it on the Bromley show.
by chrisgettlefinger on Apr 2, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
Rhodes
No he did not have Rhodes his first year, he “encouraged” him to find playing time elsewhere. Rhodes finished up at USC.
by iamnotastrongswimmer on Apr 2, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Rhodes Scored 1200+ Pts At UK
Not bad for 3 years’ effort.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 2, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It is what it is!
For all of us who wanted Cal,we knew this was gonna happen,assuming it does.There are two sides to look at. Do i think it is right not to honor current players remaining eligibility?no,but it is the nature of the beast.It should not be win at all cost,it should be about loyalty,but again it is what it is.I really do not have a big problem with what may happen in the days to come,because i absolutely have grown out of my mind tired of seeing kids that never should have been given scholarships put on a KENTUCKY uniform.I mean come on there are 3 players in the starting lineup(harris,porter,stevenson)that never should have been recruited in the first place.How many players in the last ten years have came to UK undeserving?There are many,but,lets name a few…Jules Camara,brandon stockton,Alleyne,carter,obzsrut(sp)Blevins,AJ stewart,mike williams,Saul Smith,Konner Tucker(thank god he isn’t coming),and on and on.I really do think it is shtty that some seniors to be may be asked to leave,but it is what it is and this UK fan accepts that.
GO BIG BLUE!! WE WILL BE BACK!!!
Slightly elitist?
Really? We went from NIT losers to calling out old Kentucky players because they were “undeserving” in one week?
I understand the point, and I concur that many of these players were not nearly as talented as we had wanted, but in the end…they were, and some still are, all Kentucky players. I just don’t want this to get lost in the next few weeks when these hard decisions must be made. I agree that Calipari must make cuts (violent cuts? hmmm.) but I am trying to see that the reasons must be valid and not placate many who see the easy way out, i.e. “this kid sucks’, "this guy should have never come here in the first place”…
I am also surprised by the sense of entitlement that some people have as Kentucky fans. I support the team, the coaches and the administration, but when we start crossing off a massive amount of our current roster to “find more minutes” in another system where they might get more minutes, then I think we need to reevalute our verbiage and ultimately, our true intent. To me, this is the far bigger issue.
It is most definitely not 5th grade material.
I think Cal is handling it right
He’s letting players know that if they stay, they may not play. They can then make an honest evaluation of what they want.
I have no problem with that.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Sad to say but
if it weren’t for Stevenson the streak would have ended for us last year.I do agree with you about handing out scholarships to some that don’t deserve it,but then again if you aren’t making it to the FF the big players aren’t going to want to play for you.I also think it sucks when you have to go the JC ranks to find a player just to fill a spot on the roster.
With all due respect...
I personally believe that “it is what it is” is one of the most awful sports cliches out there. It means absolutely nothing.
Agreed.
And NEARLY EVERYTHING is a double-edged sword. These are 2 of the all-time worst analogies in our language.
"Thinking outside the box"
“And I hate that kind of talk…”
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
it is what it is
say what you will but the saying DOES have meaning.I guess different folks could have a differing perception of the saying,but to me when you can’t control the outcome,it is what it is.We know Cal is gonna “purge” the roster.Espn stated the other day that that was one of his conditions,so the only thing we as Cat fans can do is piss and moan or get over it.I never said that i agreed with what may happen,but lo and behold…IT IS WHAT IT IS! If you think about it the guys that are speculated to be leaving will benefit greater by going than staying.Go elsewhere and get minutes,or,rot on the bench.As i said in a previous comment i am not that bothered by this because i am beyond tired of some of these Tubby recruits that should have been playing at morehead state instead of UK anyway.I would rather Cal honor the current players and let them finish out their careers at UK,but guess what IT IS WHAT IT IS.
GO BIG BLUE!! WE WILL BE BACK!!!
John Locke
While being a damnable sports cliche the phrase actually had a more noble birth in the writings of the father of empiricism:
“essence may be taken for the very being of anything, whereby it is what it is.”
Perhaps a parallel to Descartes’ cogito ergo sum — I think therefore I am.
As it relates to Calipari as the head of UK BB: The situation is as it is, deal with it.
I prefer Marcus Aurelius:
“This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution?”
In Calipari’s case, his essence as a coach would seem to be winning, and the best players enable that.
But Calipari will not be allowed (and probably would not want) to run people off. I am embarrassed that so many in the Big Blue Nation consider that an acceptable alternative. It is demoralizing and not a little shocking.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
My poll may be slanted
But, I wanted to get a cross-section of Kentucky fans reaction to what might happen, or what is already happening. I am also a little bummed about the blunt reasoning with some people have answered. I also want to win more NCAA championships, but to do this to people seems to cross a moral line somewhere.
The “he will not fit in this system” seems to be a broad brush to paint with and not fair to many current Wildcats that many “fans” have already turned their backs on.
You can't come here
on ASoB and not learn something. Thanks for the lesson! hahaaaa
Oh, and I think you should change your screen name to World Wide Weasel.
On second thought…
World Wide Weasel
I would daresay that WW has been all over the world having heard some comments from oldcat’69 who has also been there. I know oldcat is retired military and most likely Wild Weasel also.
it's not a matter of booting players out
He said it plain as day in the press conference, he would look at each player and determine if they are going to fit his style of ball. I don’t see many players on our roster that do. Obviously, Patterson and Meeks would make the cut if they decide to stay, but the likes of Porter, Miller, Galloway, Liggins, Harris, or Stevenson can be a big Question mark. We reaaly did not get to see the true talents of Liggins, or Galloway, or Harrelson because of Gillespie. They didn’t show much last season because they basically watched Meeks and Patterson play and did nothing both offensively or defensively. This past season was by far are worst defense ever and they ran very lttle offense. So it’s hard to determine who could possibly stay at UK and who needs to go elsewhere, but I would think he would keep those who are juniors and seniors just because they have been there more and Calipari would know that it would not go over well with the fans if those guys were given the boot.
He probably can get one or two of the guys he was trying to recruit in Memphis, but I don’t think he will get the top guy because he wanted to go to Kansas as well.
We will be better than last year, we will make the tourney and probably get past the first or second round, be a 5 or 6 seed, finish 2nd or 3rd in the SEC
My problem is this. He wants NBA type players which means if we get those caliber of players they will only stick around for a year maybe two if we are lucky. We will not see very many of those 4 year players whose dream it was to play at UK and has tons of heart . I only hope we do not become a “street ball” program that has no structure and plays like an NBA team where all players want the ball to just show their ass and look good for the scouts and don’t care about the team they are playing for. Championships or not I would hate to see our cats end up an NBDL program, not a college basketball program. We’ll see in 6-7 months
He Won 252 Games In 9 Years At Memphis
That’s what Cat fans want.
I’m not particularly concerned about how long certain players stay at UK.
Antoine Walker stayed 2 years. His teams won 62 games.
Ron Mercer stayed 2 years. His teams won 69 games.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 3, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
This is what makes me angry
The very same people that (not you specifically) that whined about Kentucky not being relevant and Tubby not getting the top players are now worried about the “one and dones.”
BS. You can’t have it both ways. Either you run a program that is successful, but not the apple of the eye for the top top recruits or you run a program like Coach Calipari has. Most fans were clamoring for Coach Calipari type players, now we have the potential for that and people are wringing their hands.
Some people are never happy.
I’ll take the wins and the Kentucky name on the lips of every high school phenom in the country.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
No UK Player Has Ever Been 1 & Done
Pitino had 3 players leave early for NBA draft – Mash, Walker, and Mercer.
Tubby had 3 players leave early for NBA – Nazr, Rondo, and Morris.
Sutton had 1 – Chapman. Rupp had 1 – Payne. (Actually 2 if you count LeRoy Edwards in 1935)
Your last sentence is Spot On The Mark!!!
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 3, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
NBA teams
NBA teams play nothing like you describe. NBA systems are the most complex basketball systems on the planet. These teams face each other several times a year and are constantly having to make adjustments to throw new wrinkles in. The vast majority of players are team guys who do whatever it takes to win. You will find a few ball hogs anywhere you play not just the NBa. Obviously you dont watch the NBA or you wouldnt make a comment like that.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
Agreed
NBA teams play very complicated offensive and defensive systems.
Most college teams play much simpler O and D systems.
Calipari’s Memphis systems are an exception to that Most.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
RE This is what makes me angry
I agree with you chirop1 (by the way Chiropractor? I am the daughter of one)…anyway, there are just some folks that you can NEVER satisfy. I want the wins and the Kentucky name on the lips of every high school phenom TOO! I want those kids to know and understand the UK tradition…it has been sadly lacking since most of these recruits were 6 to 8 years old! Besides, those who think that they may really want to be 1 and done might have such a wonderful experience that they cannot bear to let it go so quickly…after all, what is a “game” in college becomes “work” in the NBA. While I understand that the NBA money can lure, there are those kids who love the game more than the money it brings. (I know…I am idealistic.) But if they are 1 and done, it will still be in our favor.
On another note, I don’t think that Coach Cal will tell a current player that his scholarship is not being renewed. I do think that he will evaluate each player and tell the ones whose style of play want fit what he is planning for the team. If they want playing time, then they will determine for themselves to go elsewhere. And THAT is the only fair way for it to happen.
You nailed it
I agree with everything you say.
(And yes, I’m a chiropractor. There’s actually a couple chiros who float around this site.)
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
where do you practice Chirop1?
my back is screwed and i need a new chiropractor.
GO BIG BLUE!! WE WILL BE BACK!!!
It's not OK to reward average
Let’s see.
1) college is preparation for real world
2) you earned a job being average because there was not someone else available above average
3) you get to keep your job even though now there is someone better than you
4) this must be a government program
Based on what Coach Cal said at the introductory press conference, I think he will not pull the scholarships of current players. I do think he will sit down with each player and evaluate his chances of success (whether that means significant playing time or riding the pine is a question for what the player wants), and the player will make his choice. I would suspect that a few current players will transfer based on an accurate assessment of whether or not they will be able to fit into the new offensive scheme.
Free ride
Those kids who have always dreamed of coming to UK still can….It will cost the 15 to 30 thousand. Unless you can run and gun like Cal wants. We all will forget this post after the first National Championship. Then it will be “MAN CAN THAT CAL RECRUIT!!!” I can hear it now!! This must be why Scholarships are renewed every year! If you cant make the grade, you go to Jr. College! If you cant shoot, you get a job. Im glad my mother taught me disappointment early in life. No candy till after the green beans. We were getting rid of Tubby because he wasnt producing, we wanted a producer, here he is. This basketball program pays for over 20 other sports for UK. Lets keep it like it is (lose more in the NIT)and cut other UK sports programs.
I Don't Recall "Getting Rid Of Tubby"
I seem to remember that he changed jobs.
Calipari will have the potential to exceed what Pitino and Tubby accomplished PUT TOGETHER.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 5, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you realize what the Football
Program has contributed to the Athletic Dept ? Last thing I read was more than basketball.
No athletic sports at UK will be cut even though you just want basketball.
Tubby's job change
I think Tubby was listening to the same radio station in Lexington as i was and made the move before Mitch did. I’m referencing the “we want we want” and now that we have the opportunity everyone is concerned about the average player,. I’m on the Calipari band wagon. Welcome to the “Roman Empire of Basketball” Whom shall we conquer.
Beg To Differ
Tubby did not make a job change based on a radio station.
This is the kind of nonsense that perpetuates the Anti-UK stereotype in the national media.
Mitch would not / should not / could not fire a coach who was NCAA compliant, won NCAA title, 5 SEC titles, 5 SECT championships, 76% of his games and 72% of his NCAA games in 10 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 5, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It'll Happen Quick
Sweet 16 next year. FF by 2012.
Maybe even better next year.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You may be right...
…Hell, many on ESPN are saying UK could have Final Four team “next” year… That would be something…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Not Altogether Unlike Sutton At UK In 1986
Hall left him some decent talent. He took 18-13, swapped Irving Thomas for Bret Bearup, and made it 32-4.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 6, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are great
Thanks for the opportunity to be part of these postings. I’m a Ky implant (1998), this type of non-sense is what i’m talking about. This is the stuff diehard Ky fans talk about within the call in shows. Fortunately, I have moved from Lexington and no longer listen to that and have FortyYearCatFan to keep me straight. Thanks 40!
Im not up on the Old school cats and think that could be whats wrong with many (diehard) fans today. Those fans being less than 40 years old and only following sports seriously in the last 10 years miss the real Tradition. Have heard about it all their lives, but miss the big picture about why your a fan of 40 years. We all can buy shirts that have UK tradition on them but how many can discuss what created this tradition. Many have heard it all their lives and want to be part of something to keep them fans for many years.
You think I may be on to something 40? Feal free to open another post if this topic needs more discussion. I’ll jump in the back seat and watch now. ‘smirk’
Rupps Runts
They got me interested in UK.
I was (and still am) a Cincy Bearcat fan back then.
Rupp, Ledford, (Claude) Sullivan, the Runts. That did it for me.
It seems to me Caipari said it all in the press conference...
I apologize if someone has already brought this up, but it’s late here, I’ve been tracking down a hacker all day, and I’m just too tired to read the entire thread.
I voted for honor. That means that you give the kids a chance to fit into the new system. They must perform, and J.C. said in the press conference that he will meet individually with players and speak point blank, the idea being to see if they think they can handle adapting to his style of play. So it’s really up to each player to choose his own path, or at least that’s the way I read it.
Even Rupp, when pressed to recruit Kentucky’s first black player, said he would not have a player on his team that couldn’t play. He wanted a black player, but he would not be mean enough to keep a kid on the bench as a token of anything. He wanted his players to be successful above all, and to be able to represent UK both on and off the court.
It seems to me that this is analagous to the way that JC is doing it now.
But then again, I could be wrong. ;)
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
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