Analysis: Will Jodie Meeks Return, or Leave for the NBA?
We have all talked at some length about Jodie Meeks and his NBA future, especially this year after Jodie put up huge numbers against several teams, including an amazing 54 points against the Tennessee Volunteers earlier this year in Thompson-Bowling Arena. With Jodie's selection as an All-American, it was just the cherry on top of a great year for the young man from Norcross, Georgia.
I think most Kentucky fans and pundits currently believe that Jodie Meeks' return is nearly, but not quite, a foregone conclusion. But after doing a bit of thinking on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that Jodie is actually making a concerted effort to raise his NBA stock into or near the first round, and tentatively plans on making the jump this year.
What's that I see out there (via my magic Internet reader-cam-thingy) -- shock, surprise, what the ...? No reason to be surprised or shocked, and before you disagree, read on -- then disagree if you want.
Getting on to my reasoning, here is why Jodie Meeks should stay at Kentucky for his senior year:
- A chance to play for a team that could go deep in the NCAA tournament -- No matter what, Kentucky will be much better next year than this year due to an influx of high-quality freshman talent and a number of seniors. The fact is, Jodie Meeks got to play in the NCAA tournament with a Kentucky jersey on his back for exactly two games -- one win and one loss, both in his freshman year. No doubt he would like to better that record.
- Some holes in his game -- Jodie needs to improve defensively, needs to improve his handle (particularly in traffic) and learn to finish better at the rim to get into the first round of the NBA draft.
- A chance to play an offensive style that would address all the above issues, and allow him to showcase his great shooting skills. Jodie would be a big fish in a tiny little fishbowl next year. If there was a buzz when Gillispie came to Kentucky, there is out-and-out excitement among the national and local media about Calipari coming here. With the new ESPN-SEC deal starting up next year, UK and Meeks' exposure would be immense.
- A chance to graduate from college, and play as a senior on a talented team. While this may seem a bit trivial in the big scheme of things, I believe every player's dream while in college is to be a superstar their senior year, and march triumphantly into the NBA with a degree in hand and tons of hardware on the shelves.
Those are all really good reasons to return, some are better than others. But there are arguments against returning as well:
- Xavier Henry -- If Henry decides to come to Kentucky, I am confident that Jodie will not return. Both players play the same position, and Henry is the more talented player. Jodie would rightly believe that he could suffer by comparison. In addition, I think Meeks' return significantly reduces the chances that Henry will come to UK, which might also weigh on Jodie's mind.
- Playing for a third coach in four years. It has got to be frustrating having to learn three different styles in only four years, and Jodie may just be fed up with the coaching carousel here at Kentucky.
- His stock may never be higher than it is right now -- No matter what happens with Henry, UK will add more strength at Jodie's position. Combined with a new offensive scheme which will take time to learn, it may set Jodie back a bit, and I think his odds of eye-popping performances go down significantly with all the talent that UK is trying to stockpile. Bottom line -- it is likely that the buzz and visibility surrounding him will never be higher than it is at this point in time.
- This year's draft at his position is weaker than next year's -- Next year, there will be a lot of really good off guards available in the NBA draft that are closer to "prototypical" than Meeks is. The NBA draft has always been more about potential than current development, and that will hurt Jodie's chances to go high.
- The new offensive scheme might expose more weaknesses, or exacerbate the appearance of those weaknesses. That's not really a problem if you are putting up thirty points consistently, but can he do that playing with Henry and/or Wall?
- The possibility of injury. Jodie knows injury, and he knows what another one might do to his NBA dream.
I don't know about you, but when I place these two analyses on the scales, it tips slightly toward leaving for the NBA, even as a tenuous first-round pick. Based on what I currently see, it will be somewhat difficult (although by no means impossible) for Jodie to play his way into a first-round pick next year. On the other hand, if he does well in camp and improves his stock even close to the first round, I think his odds of being a surprise first-round pick are very strong this year. When a player drops 54 points on any NCAA tournament team with the kind of efficiency Jodie displayed against the Volunteers, it tends to stick in your mind.
Jodie is also a remarkable athlete in his own right with considerable potential at both guard positions. If he improves his handle he can become very attractive to NBA scouts because of his amazing foot speed. He can arguably improve quicker in the right system at the next level, and NBA scouts will be closely looking at how well he picks up on this at the camps. Remember that Meeks is highly coachable, eager and intelligent.
In sum, this is a much closer call, I think, than most pundits believe. I would not be surprised to see Jodie come back, or stay in the draft. I think the odds right now are a tiny bit better towards him going, and if he plays well in camp, I think those odds continue to increase in favor of staying in the 2009 draft. We won't know for a few weeks, but keep a close eye on the comments coming out of pre-draft camps.
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83 comments
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Comments
Matt Jones on KSR
Said Liggins was gone if Billy G stayed, but wants to stay now. Looks like it is Jorts, Stewart, and Williams as the 3 who are the most likely to go.
Envy our past......Fear our future
by btcoop71 on Apr 16, 2009 7:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What is "jorts" ?
Doesn’t it mean jean shorts?
by mrmondaynite on Apr 16, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Analysis
I liked you on the front page of True Blue Kentucky for this.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 7:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, #3!
I really appreciate that.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion
A year under Cal would make Jodie a lock for a first round pick.
Envy our past......Fear our future
by btcoop71 on Apr 16, 2009 8:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely agree.....
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
If Jodie is looking at his earning potential objectively, he would be best served to exit now. He is a great shooter and plays extremely hard. He has extreme difficulty driving with the ball and controlling himself. While some of that may be spacing and teammates, some was ability.
by Dini-D-Alum on Apr 16, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ability
A lot of it is ability. Jodie is one of the best shot makers in the college basketball right now. His problems offensively are his ability to handle the ball, see the floor, and pass. Also he doesn’t finish around the rim in traffic as well as you’d like from an NBA 2 guard. If his ball handling was a little more sound, he’d be unstoppable.
And that isn’t even acknowledging the fact that he’s shorter (with shorter arms) than 85% of all NBA 2 guards… especially 2 guards that don’t have point-guard like ball handling/passing skills.
It is funny how Meeks and Liggins need what the other has so much. Meeks needs ball handling, passing, the ability to create his own shot, and length (all things Liggins does well). Liggins needs Meeks’ shot making and he’d also like to be as bouncy as Meeks (although they could both use a little more athleticism around the rim).
I honestly think Meeks needs to make some major improvements to his game before he’ll be at a level to play in the NBA with any sort of longevity.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liggins' ball handling
Uh… I’m not sure that’s something he does all that well, though he definitely has the potential. He plays too fast, if that makes sense. If he slowed just half a step, I think he’d have a chance to be great
by wildcatfaninexile on Apr 16, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remind you of someone else we had
here a couple years back named Rondo?? Always seemed to be one step ahead of the team ??
Couldnt shoot 3’s effectively and his jumper was hideous, all in his first year I believe….Maybe Liggins does the same turnaround.
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liggins isn't Rondo
Rondo was one of the best athletes/ball handlers in the country. Liggins is bigger, and he sees the floor better than Rondo did, but he will never be that level of athlete.
Wildcatfaninexile, for Liggins’ size, he is a very good ball handler. Better than Jasper and Galloway for sure… although none of them are great when they are forced to play out of position at the point for long periods of time.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wont hound the
subject #3, but I really believe the similarities are more than just coincidence. Liggins has more size (as you pointed out) and is even better than Rondo at the 3pt shots. I think he can be a great ball handler with the right coach. Rondo didnt blossom until Tubby turned him loose, just my opinion. BCG would have NEVER turned Liggins or anyone else loose for that matter. I’ll wait for the season to decide about the rest
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several Gillispie players had more freedom than Rondo had his sophomore year.
Crawford, Bradley, and Meeks all had more freedom during Gillispie’s time than Tubby gave Rondo in my opinion.
I’ve been pretty open about my positive opinion about Liggins, but he will never be in the same league as Rondo. He’s just not that kind of athlete.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree vis a vis Rondo, but it seems to me that Liggins has been failed more by his mind than by his body.
It is the mental side of the game that is holding him back, from what I have seen. Taking unrealistic chances and looking not so good when they don’t pan out, dribbling into areas where he had no business going, jumping up into the air with the ball and having absolutely no idea what to do with it once he’s at the apex of his jump — these seem to be bigger trouble than him not being fast enough or strong enough or nimble enough. His passing is extraordinary and a real thing of beauty, and anyone can improve his shooting with hard work and gym time.
He did have trouble initially qualifying academically, and the last I heard (pure rumor mill this) is that he is iffy to qualify academically for the coming semester. At the end of the day, having great native intelligense helps make you a better basketball player, and unfortunately for some great athletes, the converse is also true.
by Ken Pomeroy on Apr 16, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you mental errors cost him last year
My physical comparison was just to NBA players like Rondo. Mental errors kept him from averaging 20+ minutes a game last year. Physical short comings will keep him from being an NBA player like Rondo.
I can pretty confidently say Liggins will never dunk on anyone in traffic. Rondo is several inches shorter than Liggins, and he does it fairly regularly. That is the major difference between the two. Even Galloway is a much better athlete than Liggins, but he isn’t as good handling the ball in traffic or shooting… the latter being a major issue.
by #3 on Apr 17, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have listened to the Calipari press conference
he sounds REALLY pumped about the guys he has..he sounds like he wants Jodie and Patterson back ..it may be all for show….but he is definitely good at what he does!
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 8:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No doubt.
Interesting times. But in a good way. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He came right out and said
that there were going to be one and done guys…..asked the press to be thankful for them and go on…..I love it!
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 8:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I...
hope, and think, he will be back. As Tru stated, his ballhandling in traffic is horrendous and that could change drastically under Cal. Also, he needs to learn how to create for himself more, rather than just coming off of screens for most of his shots.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on Apr 16, 2009 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know....I saw the same
things in games, but after what has been said about what happened during the season, do you think he just got to where he didnt care enough to make himself better at that after the way he was treated??
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably...
he has said himself that he was told to quit shooting. That had to have an effect on his game and overall mentality. Why work to get your own shot if your not supposed to shoot in the first place.
The Spork, I'm two things in one.
by the spork on Apr 16, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will say this much,
either way it goes for both of these kids, if anyone ever questions the toughness or desire of Meeks or Patterson they need to be drawn and quartered. If they stay and take that toughness they have acquired (nod to BCG for doing something that may prove useful in the future, so not everything he did was wrong) and add it to what Calipari can teach them, they may well prove to be the most prolific duo that has ever played here in the “modern” era( no offense to Issel and Pratt, I still see them as throwbacks since they played under Rupp). It has been a true joy to watch them both play and grow through injuries and setbacks since their arrival here. All the best to the both of them.
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that ALLBLUCAT
and even commented about it during a game, on another live feed, (before I found my way back home to ASoB), and the only comment I got back about it was, they thought he was just tired. Wrong!! I could see it in his eyes. The frustration look of what good will it do? Though, ever so often being who he is, towards the end of the season, he would step up and say, okay, let’s play some bball and win this game. Jodie has what it takes, deep down.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Wall and the X-Man comes, I see Jodie adding 10 lbs of muscle and playing SF/Wing.
He would be an outside threat and still make those hard cuts to the basket. IMO playing the SF position would stop him from staying on the perimeter and force him to move more with out the ball and rebound. Here’s the way it could be:
PG: Wall, CJ Henry, Galloway
SG: Xavier Henry, Hood
SF: Meeks, Miler, Harris
PF: Patterson, Pilgrim
C: Cousins, Orton
by Blueobsessed on Apr 16, 2009 8:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mmm-I'm not so sure.
How tall is Jodie? 6’4"? That’s almost too short for a DDO SG, and I think it is for a DDO SF. I see your point, but unless Cal plays a modified DDO or more traditional offense (which he has hinted that he might, if it doesn’t look like the DDO will work immediately), Jodie will have to be a 1 or 2.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Apr 16, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford was only 6'5" and very effective.
by Blueobsessed on Apr 16, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but Crawford played the two mostly,
if I remember correctly, and even if he did play the three it wasn’t in the DDO. I agree that a 6’4" or 6’5" guy could play the 3 fine in a traditional offense, but not the DDO.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Apr 16, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liggins and Galloway
I think you will see both of them spend a lot of time on the wing this year where they belong.
I’m not a big fan of these depth charts with so much unknown… Especially when people just pretend good players like Liggins and Stevenson don’t exist.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many unknowns
As I understand the DDO, the numbered positions don’t fit. There’s a big mobile guy on the weak side for rebounding and taking the dish, but there is no back-to-the-basket center. The other four players should all have dribble-drive skills and be able to spot up for the three. Like Crawford and Bradley.
It appears that we may have seven guys who can fill the big guy role: Patterson, Stevenson, Pilgrim, Stewart, Harrellson, Orton, Cousins. (Assuming Patterson, Stewart and Harrellson stay and Orton comes.)
Of our current and signed players, only Meeks, Miller and Hood can both put the ball on the floor AND shoot it from outside. Patterson and Cousins seem to have enough skills to play outside at least part of the time. (A zone can stop the DDO if there is no outside shooting threat.)
The rest of our current players lack at least one skill critical to the successful execution of the DDO. That means the players yet-to-be-signed are really crucial to our success. So is Meeks staying.
I think I understand why Coach Cal is saying we might not be able to fully implement the DDO next year. I also suspect he has no fixed ideas at this point of who might play in the four outside spots.
by Fortunatus on Apr 16, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calipari will modify the offense
If we are too loaded with bigs, Cal will play them 2 at a time. Of that I am sure.
My point with Liggins and Galloway is I just think neither will be forced to bring the ball up the floor after made baskets on a regular basis. I hope not at least.
by #3 on Apr 16, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calipari used two "bigs" in his starting lineup last year.
His regular 9 man rotation featured 4 players 6-8 or better. All his players were listed as forwards or guards.
by jpbluekat on Apr 16, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great point.
DDMO doesn’t ask how tall you are, but rather, “Can you take your man?”
Don’t forget, though, that you have to field a team that can defend against the opponent’s more traditional offense, so four short, fast guys who shoot lights out won’t cut the mustard, as they would get creamed on the boards and at the other end of the floor.
I also think folks are ignoring the fact that Cal’s teams are better at defense than they are at offense. He had the best defense this year, but only the 25th best offense.
“Dribble drive motion O” may get the recruits, but it ain’t what’s gettin’ Cal to the Final Four. Solid D is.
by Ken Pomeroy on Apr 16, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must ask.
Are you actually Ken Pomeroy or just a fan?
Agreed, though, Memphis’ defense is traditionally more effective than their offense. That is actually fine, though.
Cal’s offense, in my opinion, is sort of a gimmick used for recruiting. I don’t think it is any more efficient or effective than a regular 3 out 2 in motion, or Gillispie’s high low. Where it is effective, though, is in selling recruits on the idea of the dribble drive. This helps get the best athletes in the country, and it makes it possible to be the #1 defense… And when you have seven or eight 5 star athletes on your team, great players can make plays in an offense that is technically less effective (keeping in mind it isn’t THAT much less effective).
In my opinion it is brilliant, and I think Calipari is a genius for coming up with this plan.
by #3 on Apr 17, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Coach Cal
has a great plan, as to who, where and all. I don’t think UK picked him for his PR skills, alone. The man is a great coach. And now at a truly great program. We may see skills from the current roster that we have never seen. The man isn’t being paid almost 32 mil for nothing. And lets not forget, maybe I am getting older, but these guys are really young and willing to learn. They didn’t receive scholarships for good grades, I don’t think. I have seen Stevenson turn into a better ball handler since he has been here. At first , he really worried me when he got the ball, but he improved. Coach Cal knows what he is doing.
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Go Or Not To Go?
Fortunatus, you have, as usual, made very salient points. Just to add to those:
• With the DDMO one can eliminate the usual numbering of floor positions (1,2,3,4,5), and while it
may not be exact I would suggest something on the order of 1,3,3,3,4. Thus, in the question of
Meeks’ going or staying, I don’t see Xavier Henry posing a serious challenge to Jodie. Even if he
did and Meeks saw himself as not being able to compete against as a senior vs freshman, what
would that say regarding his competitiveness?
• There is no conceivable way that Meeks is a first-round draft choice. I have not seen a single
mock draft that has him in that position. The reasons to me seem obvious: Meeks is presently
for all practical purposes a one-dimensional player: perimeter shooter. His ball-handling,
penetration, finishing, creating, rebounding skills are below NBA SG standards. Defensively he
is fundamentally unsound especially according to NBA standards.
• As for the buzz surrounding Meeks, granted it is likely higher now than in the future but one
must consider a couple of aspects of buzz: It means much more to college fans and
commentators than it does to NBA evaluators; the Meeks focus waned considerably as the
season progressed and opponents learned how relatively simple he was to defend (granted
much of that was due to the system); while there may be less Meeks attention that will be offset
considerably by a UK focus.
• Finally, UK fans, for two reasons, have hyperbolized the talents of Meeks and Patterson: one, the tendentious parochialism of the home crowd, and, two, the necessity to compare the two to the talent surrounding them, alas, in last few years quite average.
So for Meeks, to go or not to go, that is the question. For me the answer is quite simply, no.
Or paraphrasing The Bard:
Whether ’tis better in the near future to suffer
the slings and arrows of college competition in
order to improve;
Or take arms against the odds of professional
success and by meeting them, succeed to thy
loftiest goals.
by Wild Weasel on Apr 16, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WW, try this quote on for size:
"People love others not for who they are but for how they make them feel" – Irwin Federman.
I’m thinking you want Meeks to come back because it would make you feel better as a UK fan.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 16, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consideration
Not familiar with Federman but no doubt his quote has a kernel of truth, but then don’t most quotes, otherwise they wouldn’t be worth citing. I actually gave consideration to my objectivity vis a vis Meeks and, despite the noted and admitted parochialism of UK fanhood, I can clinically say that he would be — barring the catastrophic injury — rewarded by returning.
by Wild Weasel on Apr 16, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced, but it's definitely defensible.
Probably neither one of us are even close to his actual thought process. Trying to recreate the mind of a 20 year-old as a 50+ year-old is akin to trying to touch the event horizon of a singularity. Even if you succeed, you fail. :)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Event Horizon? Singularity?
Black holes, imagine the earth with a radius of of 9 mm, escape velocity greater than the speed of light. Tru you’re a man after my own heart.
by Wild Weasel on Apr 16, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have to come back later
I need some of whatever ya’ll are drinking!
Happy Days are here again The sky is all ways BLUE again Happy days are here again !
by oldcat70 on Apr 17, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be a haytah ...
… just because you don’t have Caplis generators and Kurita-Kinoshita posigravity-driven starships in your reality does not mean we can’t talk about the theory and practice thereof. :-)
Of course, applying that to Kentucky basketball is often a stretch. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 18, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said, #3.
I’m guilty of thinking of depth charts too, but I think until the roster is finalized and we actually see that Cal does, they’re largely worthless.
Remember, Cal stated he wants Patterson to play like a guard. Things are nearly impossible to predict right now.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Apr 16, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know about that..
Meeks is listed at 6’4" and Henry @ 6’7". Henry would be much more likely to play the 3 than Meeks. But I don’t think that’s gonna be an issue b/c I agree w/ Tru that the chances of us getting back Meeks and getting Henry are pretty low.
by ben-p on Apr 16, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Senior leadership is also an issue. Only Jodie can lead as a senior. All the others will be third string.
CJ will be the deciding factor on whether or not the Henrys come. The brothers want to play on the same team and we need CJ’s talent at PG, even as back up. If we don’t get Wall, I see him starting. Remember, Coach had a year to prep CJ as a redshirt. He knows he can play.
by Blueobsessed on Apr 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough decision for a young man
Your analysis shows how tough it really is for young men who are not lottery picks to make the decision to leave school for the NBA.
Jodie obviously needs to improve some parts of his game. The questions are: does he have the physical ability to improve? Does he have the desire? I would say yes to both.
The next step is determining how he can best improve? By playing part-time as a college player learning the dribble-drive or by going pro so he can work full time on NBA-level skills. In the NBA, the team can assign (or he will have the money to hire) coaches or trainers who will work with him several hours a day on specific skills. He won’t get that at UK.
The other interesting dynamic here is that (I believe) Jodie and Patrick are roommates; it seems that both were somewhat unhappy at UK last year and may have already been leaning toward leaving. Or at least wanting to leave. How much influence do they have on each other?
Both are great young men and deserve the very best.
by Fortunatus on Apr 16, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great point about roommates
I think that’s something that hasn’t been discussed a lot- the interaction between players, and especially ones that are close, like Jodie and Pat. You KNOW they have to be talking about it, bouncing ideas/thoughts off each other. The question is- how close are they? Are they so tight that they’ll make a decision together- both stay, both go? It’s all pure speculation, but I think it’s interesting to see how that factors in.
by wildcatfaninexile on Apr 16, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jodie
does need to work on his ball handling and finishing in traffic but it isnt horredous as some are claiming. IMO the attention that was focused on him last season contributed quite a bit to many of his turnovers and missed shots at the rim. People forget the one’s he made and the over abundance of defenders packing the lane due to UK’s lack of perimeter shooting (with the exception of Jodie) were a big part of his turnovers. If he gets the opportunity to play in the DDM I think you will see a much better handle and the ability to finish at the rim due to the better spacing moreso than improvement from the player.
Jodie is a bit shorter than many NBA 2 guards but he does have one thing that will help him stick to a roster for quite a while even if he is never a big contributor at the next level and that is his shot. NBA teams always are looking for a deadly sniper off the bench a la Eddie House. House has been in the league for quite a while and all he is asked to do is come off the bench and made threes. Jodie can fill that role for someone.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Apr 16, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis Tru
Jodie has been one of my favorite players in a long time… I love the way he is constantly hustling trying to get open, and so fast. It is so obvious that playing track in high school, only helped his bball talents. I think he would only improve his standings in the NBA draft, by returning for his senior year, and playing under Coach Cal and his DDMO. Jodie is a hungry learner, he has shown that time after time. He has always had the attitude, that when those who say he can’t do something, he shows them yes, I can. Jodie has proven that he is willing and able to pull out a win. He is like the Energizer Bunny on the court. A lot of fun to watch. Plus, I think he is smart enough to realize that, with one more year left, he would also have his college degree, should he need it somewhere down the road. Here’s to hoping he stays. : )
And, Tru, I have to add, now we all know about your (via my magic Internet reader-cam-thingy). LOL I knew you had something, wasn’t sure what it was…..
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
Well, coming from an advanced alien culture does have it’s benefits. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA HA Great fun
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NCAA Tourney Experience
If Meeks goes to the NBA and Stewart leaves, UK would only have 2 players with NCAA tourney experience:
Meeks (65 minues, 22 points, 9 rebounds, 2 games)
Stevenson (38 minutes, 12 points, 6 rebounds, 3 games)
Harris (23 minutes, 2 points, 0 rebounds, 2 games)
Stewart ( 1 minute, 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 games)
by CalipariCat on Apr 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stewart played in 1 game
last year’s loss to Marquette — but only 1 minute.
by CalipariCat on Apr 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jodie
I think he would be better off staying for the year and getting that “going to the rim hard and finishing” skill honed…Bogans had that ability, tested the waters and still came back…I think Jodie would thrive with more skilled players around him (less forced shots as the shot clock expires from 28 feet with a hand in his face after running hard for 32 seconds in the half-court)…his workouts would have to be stupendours for him to jump into the first round (and thus guaranteed money)…but even then, late first round jumps (ala Nazr) sometimes don’t work out either…I think he really has potential to climb into the lottery next year by polishing his game and going from a possible late first round/early second round pick this year into a very good situation in 2010 (financially if not playing for a good team)…of course I am overly biased…and I don’t necessarily believe fully that Xavier (if he does come to UK) will be a one-and-done player…so Jodie should be fine…and someone correct me if I am wrong…but doesn’t the signing period end on May 20 while the last date for Jodie to pull out of the draft is June 25…theoretically, won’t Henry have made his decision regardless before we know what Jodie ultimately does??
by fincity on Apr 16, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Deadline.
I was just thinking about that very thing. Yes, Xavier must make his decision (May 20) before Jodie (NBA deadline in June 15, btw), so Jodie will actually have the benefit of knowing what Xavier will do before he ultimately must make his decision on whether or not to return for his senior season.
Although, I do think I recall the Henry’s saying they would decide where they will sign pretty soon after their upcoming visit to UK so we may not have to wait until May for their decision, but regardless of Xavier’s decision, I would think that Jodie would still participate in the pre-draft camps and such, just for the experience of it – so we may have to wait on Jodie a while longer anyway. : )
by BigSkyCat on Apr 16, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although I don't think this will be the case....
Heny does not have to decide before May 20. May 20 is the deadline for signing a national LOI. He doesn’t have to sign a LOI in order to play at UK. He could still come without signing, giving him the ability to change his mind in July.
As good as he and Wall are, I don’t really know why they would need to sign one. What’s the benefit? If they tell Coach K, Self, or Calipari they are coming, I’m sure they would find room on their rosters.
by CalipariCat on Apr 16, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
National LOIs favor the universities...
Sports Agent Blog: To Sign or Not to Sign … the LOIs:
“The National Letter of Intent (NLI) is an agreement that heavily favors athletic departments over recruits. Many lawyers believe the NLI is what can legally be defined as a "contract of adhesion," which is "a standard-form contract prepared by one party, to be signed by the party in a weaker position…who adheres to the contract with little choice about the terms." Technically, the NLI is a voluntary program, but unless an athlete is a superstar, he or she does not have market power to dictate terms of enrollment. Sign on the dotted line or risk losing the scholarship offer.”
by CalipariCat on Apr 16, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seth Davis on the LOI
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/national.letter/ A little dated, but still applicable.
There is no way I’d sign contract that gave away my rights to do anything, and if a coach wanted to pull an offer because of it, so be it.
by Ontherocks on Apr 16, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
Tru linked an SI article by Luke Winn (good piece, btw) in his Morning Newspaper this morning and even though this particular article was concerning John Wall, I think it’s appropriate to consider for the Henry situation as well. At the very end of the piece is the following paragraph that basically states what I think you were getting at in your above post:
It’s a decision that could keep coaches and fans on edge for the rest of the spring and into the summer. The NCAA’s spring signing period opened on Wednesday, when Cousins was faxing his signature to Lexington, and ends on May 20. But any school seriously in the hunt for Wall would hold a scholarship open for him, and allow him to enroll without signing a letter of intent. Which means Wall could take the process all the way up until June 15, when he’d know exactly which players were in or out of the NBA Draft pool. “I think John will wait until he feels comfortable with everything, because it’s a situation that’s going to change his life and the lives of people he cares about,” Clifton said. “And I absolutely support him waiting.”
So yeah, apparently, high profile recruits such as Xavier and Wall really are in no rush to make a decision by any certain time, are they? They can simply wait until the NBA draft deadline, or longer, to see who’s in or out for sure. Interesting.
by BigSkyCat on Apr 16, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point, BSC ...
…I would note that in a recent update to the Morning Newspaper, I linked an article about Henry where he indicated his decision would be coming much sooner than the draft deadline.
But as with all such things, he could wait and see. My feeling is, though, that he is leaning one way or another and wants to end the process.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Jodie has a great game that need "polishing" and this new offense seems suited to do just that.
Jodie is fast and can further develop his quickness/handle/rebounding. He has the ability to be a better defender and the will play all out. If we get Wall and the Henrys, we can play all out and sub with very high quality second and third strings. We will just keep coming at you relentlessly breaking you down. If you foul us by reaching we will make you pay. With Wall, Meeks, Henry, Patterson, Cousins, CJ, Hood, Miller, Pilgrim, and Orton we will have interchangeable parts that can really hurt another team. I don’t think anyone else will be that deep, even the dreaded Kansas.
by Blueobsessed on Apr 16, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Meeks goes now, would UK be better in 2010-2011?
If Meeks returns, UK will be better next year. But what about 2010-11? Is it possible that if Meeks goes to the NBA this year and if Patterson – Orton – Cousins – Wall – Henry – Miller – Hood have a great year, they might all decide to return for one more year to have a shot at a national championship (like the players at UNC did this past year or the ones at Kansas are doing this year)? If Meeks returns, we probably don’t get Henry. In addition, the others might not stay because we would be losing a big piece of the offense. I realize Wall, Cousins, and Henry are likely one-and-dones, but I think it’s also possible that like the Michigan Fab 5 they decide to return for one more chance.
by CalipariCat on Apr 16, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
okay....
could it possibly be that Meeks and Patterson throwing their hats into the NBA mix, actually is kind of a distraction, a fake screen if you will? There are a lot of if’s and might’s, seems to me.
There I finally said it. Have wanted to for a while…IMO
Blue, there is no other color to Bleed !!!
by a2d2 on Apr 16, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thought out reasons that Meeks should go.
Most of these reasons could be translated to Patterson as well. If you combine that with Patterson’s likely higher draft number, it would make even more sense for Patterson to depart for the NBA.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 16, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have said all year ...
… that Patterson should strongly consider going. You’re right, many of those do translate to him as well, with the exception of his NBA stock, which could well be higher next year even with the big guys we have coming in. I think that is less likely for Meeks.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I haven’t followed exactly why Hoze has said repeatedly that Patterson’s stock will go down after next season.
I see the argument for Meeks, though my opinion is that both stocks will go up simply because the program will be much stronger and both players will get more consistent spotlight. I realize Meeks won’t get “54 points!” spotlight, most likely, but both will be starters on what could be a top 5 team that runs deep into the NCAAs.
Scoring well is all fine and dandy, but when the program hits the top25 for one week only, goes 8-8 in a weak SEC, and fails to make the NCAA tournament, it does not help your stock. Yes, the draft is all about potential, but that potential is much better showcased on a nationally competitive, winning team, and on a team that is being discussed by the media constantly. That was not the case this season, despite Jodie’s amazing individual performances.
It’s also worth remembering that Jodie’s production, especially his efficency, sharply declined at the end of the season. The scouts will still remember 54 points, of course, but that lag at the end will still be fresh on their minds.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Apr 16, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never meant to imply that Patterson's stock going down would be a fait accompli.
I think him returning just has more risk than upside. I addition to what Tru says above with Meeks, it is likely that Patterson will not only have to learn a new offense, but a new position. If not a new position, a new way to play it (more ball handling, face up shooting, etc.). In other words, he will be stretched much more than Meeks.
It can be argued that the main reason for Patterson’s position is one of potential. He risks that by having to prove that potential with another year in college basketball.
Lastly, a scout or an NBA team doesn’t give much care to a team’s won-lost record. Media coverage means absolutely nothing. The players showcase themselves…they don’t have to rely on a team’s performance, or how often they appear on ESPN.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 16, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stretching
That stretching would be exactly the skills he needs to demonstrate to move up in the draft. If he succeeded in Cal’s system he could move up even higher next year. A consistent jumper and more ball handling skills in a package his size would move him up a bit. That’s still not to say that that would be enough to make him come back though if he is projected fairlty high now without those skills.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Apr 16, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I could grow a few more inches and get my speed back I could play point guard for the Cards.
But then again, that may not happen. A consistent jumper and improved ball handling skills for Pat may not happen either. That’s the risk. Given his draft position, the ‘opportunity to improve’ just ain’t worth it.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
by HozeKing on Apr 16, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is certainly true ...
… if he is not, in fact, a lottery pick already.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Apr 16, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PAT
I like that chances of Pat improving his ball handling and shooting a little more than you growing a few more inches or “getting your speed back”.
But still like I said- the gains he would make arent necesarrily worth coming back another year if he is projected high enough.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Apr 16, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
If he’s lottery, he should go, no doubt.
But if not, and IF he excels in Cal’s system (which I think he will-he’s just a talented basketball player), he could easily be lottery next season.
The way he would have to play at UK next season would be more akin to how he would have to play in the NBA. If he shows he can do it, he goes very high I think.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Apr 16, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all honesty
I have to say that I really hope Pat does NOT stay in the draft. Call me selfish or whatever, I just really think that he will make a lot of improvement with one more year….and the Cats will too. I can honestly say that if he and Meeks stay, and we get Wall and Henry, that we might have three or four players taken in the top 10 draft choices next year. It would be a real boost to UK for that to happen. It is selfish, so I confess ahead of time….
Remember, were having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Apr 16, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calipari And Meeks
Or is that Meeks and Calipari? Sort of a mutual admiration society it seems. Good read from Larry Vaught.
by Wild Weasel on Apr 16, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Calipari Call-In Show
Here is link, not sure if it’s archived.
Was his usual slick, polished, urbane self with a good mix of humor, i.e. sent a “Witness” shirt to Bruce Pearl. Good rapport with callers with what seemed to be an actual interest in them personally. Nothing especially new. Strengthening schedule, not schedule any program 250+ RPI. If UK gets the players he thinks they’re going to get (read that however you wish) will play anyone. 8 of top 10 HS juniors are calling. Exceptional front court depth might require a shift in play but also possibility of 3-3 swing substitutions. Urged both Patterson and Meeks to test NBA water but both would thrive and improve in his system. Praise for Miller and potential, and Stevenson has improved. Says he asks assistants all the time, Can you believe we’re at Kentucky? Probably missed some other points.
by Wild Weasel on Apr 16, 2009 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis, Tru
I agree that Meeks needs a better handle, especially in traffic, although I do feel that some of his turnovers were due to his trying to do too much.
If I’m an NBA GM Meeks’ mid to late-season shooting would be a concern. His %‘s fell dramatically over the last month-and-a-half — If it was because he was tired, well then, how well will he do in an 82 game schedule (but of course he won’t be playing 35-40 minutes per game, and working like a dog, as he did last year).
Defensively I think he would do fine in the Association. He is fundamentally sound defensively, and his lateral speed is good. He took some plays off last year at UK, but that was probably because of exhaustion :)
He definitely has the body, although he’s just a bit shorter than most NBA 2-guards.
I think his decision will be wholly based on where he’s told he’ll be drafted. If they tell him he’ll go in the 1st Round (which is what he wants to hear), then he’s probably gone, but if not, I think he’ll be back.
I think he would thrive in the DDMO. And with all the talent coming in he won’t have to worry about killin’ himself for 40 minutes every night, which should improve his overall numbers — With the possible exception of his ppg.
by Ken Howlett on Apr 16, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We all thought he was tired
I now attribute his late season shooting woes to one former UK coach.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Apr 17, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His stock may never be higher than it is right now — No matter what happens with Henry, UK will add more strength at Jodie’s position. Combined with a new offensive scheme which will take time to learn, it may set Jodie back a bit, and I think his odds of eye-popping performances go down significantly with all the talent that UK is trying to stockpile. Bottom line — it is likely that the buzz and visibility surrounding him will never be higher than it is at this point in time.
It seems to me that Coach Cal made the comment that Jodie is “flourishing” in the practices under the DDMO.
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
by SD_UK_FAN on Apr 17, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Meeks Can Get Into 1st Round
He should go now.
by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 18, 2009 7:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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