Gillispie considering Arizona job?... i.e. another log on the fire.
by sleepytimetea on Mar 6, 2009 2:07 AM EST
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PrintSeriously. Has anyone heard this yet? This was not through the rumor mill of blogs, but on the radio in NKY by people who get paid to talk about sports. While we are at it, a writer at the Courier-Journal said that Patterson and Meeks are definitely coming back. It's all from an "inside" source. He also said that there will be mass defections and several getting the boot after this year. I don't know about you all, but I am tired of the BS. I will not believe anything anyone says anymore until I hear it from the horse's mouth. I honestly feel horrible for this team. Have they underachieved, absolutely... and they know that better than anyone. We, the fans, are not making this any easier on them at all. All of a sudden, we are better coaches than an SEC co-coach of the year. We understand the team chemistry better than someone who spends pracitcally every waking hour with them. We are qualified to write and spew nasty sentences in the direction of the people we alledgedly love. Do we love the players, or do we love the uniform? I would think the rational answer would be both, but by hearing and reading what some say about players on this team... we might as well be talking about Gladiators in a Roman arena... thumbs up or thumbs down. I will say this, and I say this as a graduate of the University of Kentucky, if we (the fans) run Gillispie out of Lexington after this year, I will have a hard time putting on anything that resembles Kentucky blue. It is absolutely, positively embarrassing to hear the calls we all hear on the radio and to read the posts we have all read on the internet. What is your affiliation with the University? What is your qualification that makes you an expert in basketball? Speak up. If you have the guts to say it, qualify yourself (I'm Bob and I coach High School Basketball, etc). Court cases require expert witnesses and this should be no different. It's time for some accountability. Tell us why we should listen to you. I mean no disrespect to those who run this blog as it is obvious that more than a fair amount of your time is spent researching UK basketball. I also mean no disrespect to those who post here, unless, well, you are feeling a touch guilty, and then and only then, maybe.
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Talk Radio In Northern KY
They know absolutely nothing.
I’m from No Ky. Talk radio is drivel there.
Heh.
Well, this certainly seems like a joke.
Given what he has done at Kentucky so far, exactly what would Arizona see in him? :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Tru, that's what I was thinking
I figured the one thing we absolutely would not have to worry about this offseason was rumors that someone was going to snatch up our coach… : )
FWIW, I am still relatively optimistic that he will be successful here. I think.
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
1530 Homer is the main sports talk station. They only know about Cincinnati. When they try to talk about UK, it is painfully obvious (be it Mo Egger, Lance McAlister, or any fill in like that lard ass C. Trent) that they are ill informed. Add to that, Alan Cutler is on every morning.
what part of NKY???
I am originally from Alexandria… but I live in Nashville, TN now.
I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!
by sleepytimetea on Mar 7, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Fort Mitchell
Kenton County “cake eater” originally.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Well Ken,
Maybe we should all quit posting. Wether you agree or not, isn’t that what this is all about. You can’t keep out the ignorant. You can just use your own filter and decide what is relevant and what is not. That’s what I do. For example, I just read your entire post, and I’ve already erased most of it from my mind, categorizing it as propaganda from a source with an agenda different than mine. That’s what media is all about. . .
Did Some Research
Rupp was National COY 4 times.
Hall was National COY in 1978 and SEC COY 4 times.
Sutton was National COY in 1978 (neither unanimous) and 1986. He was Conference COY in 1975-77-78-81-86-93-98-2004 (various conferences).
Pitino was National COY in 1987 and Conference COY in 1990-91-96 and 2005.
His sucessor was National COY in 2003 and 2005 plus Conference COY in 1994-95-98-2003-05.
(All of the above per Wikipedia)
F/U Researched Gillispie, Too
His Wiki page says he was Conference COY in 2005 and 2007 plus co-Conference COY in 2008.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 6, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
well, yes
all of them were outstanding coaches. Naturally UK has has numerous COY award winners over the years—it is the winningest program in basketball. How exactly does that make the award LESS impressive?
Or more to the point: why it is necessary for you to engage in what is, in my opinion, a rather bratty attempt to discredit what is widely seen as our coach’s prior successes? It was annoying and mean-spirited when people picked some random stat out of the whole (hasn’t been to the Final Four with his own players!) and used that to discredit the respected body of work of our former coach; it is no less so to sneer at Gillispie’s undeniable accomplishments. Also to quote wikipedia: “Gillispie became the only college basketball coach to be in charge of the NCAA program with the biggest turnaround in two consecutive seasons…In his three seasons at A&M, the Aggies achieved three consecutive 20-win seasons for the first time ever.” Some people find this impressive. You may not especially, but I am weary of people acting like we picked some jackass 3rd assistant at Sister Mary’s College for the Blind or something.
We get it; he’s untested, he’s unproven, he hasn’t shown anything at this level. Yes, that is true. He may turn out to be a huge bust here, and at the moment I wouldn’t bet against it myself. I’m not sold on him, frankly (although it’s just in my nature to STFU and let the man coach, as you put it). That doesn’t mean you have to denigrate ANY professional accomplishments the man has. To me, you are piling on, now that we’re sucking on the court and it’s easy for you to do so.
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Just Stating Facts
Pitino was National COY before UK. Ditto Sutton. Multiple Conference COY before UK is No Big Deal.
I don’t see Gillispie’s results from 2003 through 2007 as remarkable. You do, others agree. I do NOT. His UK prdecessor was the first coach EVER to lead Georgia to back-2-back 20 W seasons. The first coach EVER to win NCAA game at Tulsa, still the only coach there to make back-2-back Sweet 16. Nolan Richardson coached there. Bill Self coached there. Neither did either of those.
None of that means squat.
He will prove me wrong, or you. The W and L will tell the tale.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 6, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
well sure,
I agree with you 100% that Smith’s accomplishments to date were/are far more impressive than our current coach’s, though I’m unsure what that has to do with this discussion about Gillispie.
And just to be clear, Gillispie won’t be proving me right or wrong either way, because I have not and am not making any predictions about any potential success (or lack of) here. I’m far from sold on Coach G being the one for us, although I do still have hope it will work out, and certainly haven’t given up on him. I’m only talking about his past coaching resume; I don’t see that it is necessary or accurate take this opportunity to kick him while he’s down and start maligning the man’s career prior to this job, which is widely considered to be quite a successful one.
To get back more on topic, nice post, sleepy. The angry and entitled attitude that so many college fans (not just UK) seem to have is embarrasing… like the kids or the program personally OWE them something. My pet peeve is fans saying they won’t “accept” this kind of performance. Uh, yes you will. Like, what does that even mean? What other option do you have but to accept it?
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 7, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I Described Several Former UK Coaches, Not Just 1
Everybody always focuses on that 1. Look at all of them. Each of the 5 prior UK coaches won NATIONAL COY award(s) and multiple Conference COY awards. Each one, not just 1.
Gillispie’s TAMU and UTEP results are meaningless. He MUST W lots more than he L at UK or he’ll be gone in 2 or 3 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
How do you figure they are meaningless?
They are what got him where he is. True, he must perform, but that’s just obvious.
But he got here primarily because of his results at TAMU and UTEP, and the various COY awards he won were also part of that package. To suggest all that means nothing is simply non-sequitur — it means a lot.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
It's Meaningless Because You Must W AT UK
Regardless what you did before you got to UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Fine, 40.
How does the prior COY wins of 5 PRIOR UK COACHES AND NOT JUST THAT ONE THAT EVERYBODY FOCUSES ON make Gillispie’s no big deal. And another thing: why are Gillispie’s TAMU and UTEP results meaningless, yet you see fit to list what’s-his-name’s Georgia and Tulsa’s results just above?
Actually no—don’t answer that : ) Clearly, we’re just not getting each other. I feel like we’re have having two separate conversations here, and it’s starting to give me a splitting headache. I guess we just need to agree to disagree. I don’t really know why I try to engage in these discussions anyway—I’ll give you this 40, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered anyone with more utter assurance his own correctness than you are : )
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 7, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Here's My Point
It doesn’t matter what Rupp did at Freeport (IL) HS. It mattered what he did at UK.
It doesn’t matter what Hall did before UK. It matters what he did AT UK.
Ditto Sutton, Pitino, and the coach who can’t be named. What they did AT UK mattered.
Gillispie is the least qualified of those 4 (post Rupp) coaches and he has the worst results (of those 4) at UK.
I said (and you ignored) that what the coach who can’t be named did at Tulsa and Georgia DOESN’T MATTER. It only matters what he did at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
from the site rules:
“Sometimes, it’s best to just agree to disagree rather than taking the argument to a distracting and annoying level of minutae.”
I think it’s fair to say we’ve officially reached (probably a couple of posts ago) a distracting and annoying level of minutae here; both of us, I’m not pointing the finger at you here. Stick a fork in me—I’m done.
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 7, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. This state is full of arm chair coaches who havent won at anything and its time to STFU and get behind this team and coach. This is our team. They may not be the best we have had at UK but like it or not they represent us. Coach deserves at least 4 years to turn this program around. And with the talent that he has comming in next year with those returning we should be better. For those who have nothing but negatives to say, I say if you are a season ticket holder, turn in your tickets, their are thousands around this state that would gladly take your seat and cheer on this team and coach.
If Gillispie were to
up and leave to a school like Arizona do you think it would still have the same effect on the program as being fired?
"Learned to love the Cats at a young age, via tape delay."
No.
No, not at all. There is a big, big difference.
It would have a negative effect, for sure. People would begin asking what is so bad about Kentucky that good coaches keep abandoning ship there. That is a question that would get a lot of play in the sports media, and the fans would universally be blamed. But that would be a facile argument. There is pressure to win everywhere, there is just more here, which is how it should be.
But to answer your question (and it is a very good one, by the way), if Gillispie left, it would just mean another coaching search and more excitement than depression due to the poor team performance so far. Casual fans, whether they like Gillispie or not, wouldn’t jump up and bemoan a quick trigger. Long-timers would either applaud or join the questioning of why coaches are jumping ship. But it would not make UK look radioactive like firing the coach after two years (both winning seasons, by the way) would.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I havn't been a
fan of BCG from the start. I am not calling for his head. However, I wonder if the possibility of a team mutiny (loosing 2 players to the draft and several transferring while the rest are dissatisfied which at this point looks to be a possibility) would cause him to at least explore that option
I’m not saying I wish he would leave but I think if there is no way for him to bring back Kentucky to be a national player in the next two years that He should heavily consider this option as it seems it would be best for both Him and the program. (That’s gotta be a run on sentence)
"Learned to love the Cats at a young age, via tape delay."
Congratulations, Sleepytimetea and Ken!
You two are the hands-down, slam dunk, walk-off co-winners of the Post Of The Year award.
The Lifetime Supply Of Gillispie Kool-Aid Being The Prizes?
I’m not satisfied with 37-24 over 2 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 6, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
C'mon, Forty,
I’ll bet Ken, sleepy, and WW are not satisfied with the record either. Heck, none of us are. But as you often point out, Gillispie is going to get 4 or 5 years to prove his critics and supporters right or wrong.
I notice you didn’t quote Joe Hall stats. He was, as Gillispie is, somewhat of a gamble. Both, I believe, were gambles. And 33-21 in Coach Hall’s first two years was pretty far below current KY standards in the early 70s, too. I remember a lot of talk then. Not a bad season the next year, though, and not a bad UK career for Mr. Personality.
And Conference COY is a big deal, although certainly not as big as National COY. There were a lot of other coaches who didn’t get Conference COY in the years Gillispie, Hall, Pitino, etc did. All-Conference is not as good as All-American, but it is a big deal. For a five-man All-Conference first team, there are approximately 140 other guys who didn’t make it, depending on the conference.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
No One Is Satisfied, No One SHOULD Be
Joe Hall was assistant at UK for 7 years. Not a gamble in my mind. He knew UK basketball. It was in his blood.
You and I both know Adolph Rupp did very little actual coaching in the twilight years of his UK career.
Hall coached and recruited them for 5+ years before he got the official title.
As I pointed, every UK coach from Rupp on won multiple Conference COY awards. Every single one. Even the one whose name cannot be mentioned. Gillispie is the least qualifed UK coach by that measure.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 6, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Joe Hall knew UK basketball
better than Coach Gillispie, but knowing a “system” that was in a down period might not have been the greatest recommendation. On that basis, Harry would have been a better choice, but his age mitigated against him and he had already fried bigger fish.
On the other hand, I don’t agree that Rupp did little coaching, but I’ll explain what I mean by the term. I see the head coaching job as several-fold: recruiting, media relations, overall strategy, game tactics, basic teaching, and maybe some more areas. From the recruiting and basic teaching standpoint, Coach Hall carried the bulk of the load after Harry was elevated to AD. If Coach Rupp continued to be like he was in ‘65-’66, he was deeply involved in both strategy and game tactics, and handled media relations virtually exclusively.
Now, I suspect that his involvement in the strategy and game tactics phases had gotten a little more “collaborative” as Harry’s tenure grew, and he might have not allowed Coach Hall that same level of participation the first year or so after Harry moved up, but probably did the last year or two. On the other hand, he may have already been very comfortable with Coach Hall, I don’t know for sure.
While he probably had slipped from his former level of intensity and sharpness, he was definitely involved the year I was privileged to witness. I can’t bear witness as to what happened later, but I wouldn’t think he dropped off the cliff mentally.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Hall "Coached" The Team In 1970-71-72
Harry was AD then.
Rupp was not the primary coach but he still had the title.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Is that opinion, or did you witness the practices?
I saw and heard one year, albeit four years before the years you cite, and I can tell you he was involved. Re-read my reply above. You don’t have to be the one instructing in basic skills to be in charge of the flow of practices or the game plans (both strategic and tactical).
Unless you know first-hand what happened, you have no authority to state your belief as fact. I accept your belief, but mine, or anyone else’s is just as valid unless they were there.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Did Not Witness Practices
But I’ll give you one example.
Remember the player revolt about the running program instituted in Fall of 69? That was Hall who put that into UK practice regimen.
Hall was the #1 assistant in 1970-71-72. Coach Rupp was (I’ll just say it) senile by then. Hall ran the team those 3 seasons.
Ask anyone on those 3 teams, or Joe Hall himself.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
i am definitely not satisfied
but it does no good to sit and verbally berate these guys… especially the players, call me a hippie if you like. They are just a notch above being minors and never will have to deal with the kind of “life under a microscope” scenario again in their lives, be it in their professional career or in the NBA. I am sure the pressure is intense, and it is put out their by us, and lately, it is nothing but negativity. I can’t help but think that to a point our attitude effects their play much more than their play effects our attitude. It also doesn’t do much good berating Gillispie until every player on his starting five is there due to his efforts recruiting. Otherwise we begin to play the “arm-chair coach” game as Ken so aptly put. Look… I, like all of you, want them to be fantastic. I stood at Championship Corner in 1998 after three different games, each one sweeter than the one before. I know what that felt like and I want to feel it again (at least in some capacity. The amount of alcohol consumed on those nights would kill me now!). I don’t want the next time to be cheapened by the unruliness of a vocal minority who tend to take whatever nugget of knowledge they heard somewhere and feel is relevant and use it to support a bashing of the very team they claim to love. How is this helpful? Are we helping the team or just creating a acidic environment that nothing good will ever grow in?
I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!
by sleepytimetea on Mar 6, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
So Long As They Give Effort
No player deserves to be berated.
Only 1 player gave effort in Columbia SC.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 6, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more.
These players are still kids. And they are not professionals. If the effort is there, there is absolutely no reason to personally berate them, even for failures. Talent levels vary, experience varies, mental agility varies, and some guys just aren’t “lucky” all the time. Also, sometimes too much effort leads to mistakes, but I’ll defend the guy making the effort every time, even if I think he failed. On the other hand, I get a little agitated at lack of effort.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Sorry,
meant to say Hall stats before selection to be HC, and repeated gamble. I’m getting old.;-0 (toothless grin)
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
Hall Did OK At Regis And SEMO
But his real Trial By Fire was at UK. He was the De Facto UK coach in 1970-71-72 when Harry Lancaster moved up to AD.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 7, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
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