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Kentucky Basketball: Can somebody get me a beer so I can put these flames out?

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Crashing and burning is something that happens to other teams, not to Kentucky.  Not until now.

In the parlance of fighter pilots, Kentucky "augered in" last night.  Cratered.  Dug a hole.  Nothing left now but the flaming wreckage of the season and a divided and angry fan base.

Did I say "divided and angry?"  Scratch that.  Divided and apathetic.  After a severe injury, the body protects itself by sending the victim into shock, a reaction that reduces pain and eventually renders the victim impervious to further suffering by robbing him of consciousness.  That's what I feel like this morning.  I don't feel pain, or sadness, or anger.  Merely apathy.  Of course, this too shall pass, it's just what's going on in my world right now.  It is my mind's attempt to stave off the pain of a lost season while I pick through the smoking wreckage of a team that has augered in at just under the mach.

Star-divide

Every crash is followed by an investigation.  What went wrong?  Was it pilot error, or mechanical failure?  Were proper procedures followed?  Is there a recording in the aircraft's electronics that is salvagable?  Did the pilot eject to safety, or are his component parts lining the crater along with the rest of the wreckage?

In Kentucky's case, I'm sure most everyone will blame pilot error, but I myself am not so sure.  I think it was more of a mechanical failure, but the pilot didn't appear to do the right thing when the engine flamed out and he went into that flat spin.  His actions seem to have made the problem worse until the spin became unrecoverable, and sudden deceleration trauma unavoidable.

Did the pilot survive?  I actually don't know yet.  We've never really been here before.  We didn't find the body in the hole, but it could be because it was atomized on impact and we just don't know it yet.  More likely he escaped, but is badly injured and may not survive.

Did we find a recording?  Oh, yeah, and everyone saw that recording.  It saw a team that has lost it's soul, and replaced it with a kind of frenetic, directionless energy.  Players and coaches refer to that as "failure to execute," but in real life, it is simply known as a panic reaction.  The team has read the press clippings, took them to heart, and has completely lost its composure.  The coach has, too.  He has devolved into spouting the same bromides after every single game.  Wanna know what the coach said about the loss last night?  Just roll the tape from Saturday, or the previous game.  That's the sign of a man who has run out of answers, and at this point, hasn't even figured out the right questions to ask.

I do mean this as criticism, but only in the sense that the team needs somebody to lead it, and right now Gillispie isn't doing that.  I don't know why, I'm quite sure he wants to and is trying.  But the team has apparently decided not to accept his leadership.  That happens.  Unfortunately, the only remedy I'm aware of is drastic, something similar to what Tubby Smith had to resort to after Team Turmoil.  Major surgery.  Lives and futures at stake.  Debulking the tumor.

Coach Gillispie has been badly damaged by this game, professionally.  Not just this game, really, but the accumulation of things that happened after the 5-0 start in the SEC.  It seems that despite his rhetoric, he either doesn't know or hasn't been able to impart a method or process for dealing with adversity.  A couple of tough losses came along, and bam!  The right engine flames out and the aircraft goes into a spin.  the difference?  Leadership.  Last year's team had it.  This year's team doesn't.  I have never witnessed such a rudderless team on the court.

What we have seen is not how Kentucky usually handles adversity.  That's not even how a Gillispie-coached team usually handles adversity.  Just think back one year.  The season was going to hell in the OOC schedule, then the team toughened up and managed a 12-4 record in conference (a much tougher conference, by the way, than this year's).  The airplane was crashing, but they righted the ship and brought it down to a hard but safe landing.  This year, UK hits some rough air in conference and winds up doing a little landscaping by aircraft.

"Wait," you cry, "We still have the SEC tournament!"  Do we?  Seriously, does anyone expect this team to turn on a dime and win out?  Normally, I would concede the possibility, but after what I saw last night, I feel that's just wishful thinking.  Even if it happens, it won't erase them memory of what this season has been.  Before you accuse me of excess negativism, I want to explain that I will be cheering and hoping for just this outcome, but right now, my mind is incapable of much optimism.  Before I can return to hope, I must mourn what I have seen -- the demise of a Kentucky team that should have been much better than this.  Last year, Coach got all he could out of that team.  This year, he got maybe 60%.  And that just wasn't enough.

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I Have Nothing Left

I’ve ranted, I’ve raved, I’ve yelled obscenities at the tv at some of the horrendous efforts of this team, yet at times I saw a glimmer of hope in the way they played Tennessee & a few other outings. But, after last nights horrible impression of a Kentucky basketball team I have nothing left. No hope for the future. No expectations of any kind. The roller-coaster of a season has left me emotionally drained until I have sunk, and you used the perfect word, into abject apathy. I never in my adult life thought I would feel this way about the Kentucky Wildcats, but this team and this coach had led me here. It is not a comfortable place.

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 8:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

The only good thing is that it can’t really get worse. There is no down left. If we lose from here on out, I won’t get any lower than I am right now.

Welcome to the bottom of the crater.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember

Most of us thought Brooks should go after two years too.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stop comparing Brooks to Gillispie!!!!

UK basketball and UK football are two different things. UK football was in the toilet before Brooks took over. He is a stand-up guy and Gillispie…well he’s Gillispie!!

by rsparks on Mar 6, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't doing a lot of standing up

His first three years on the job. Plus the team Billy G took over wasn’t exactly the UK basketball program people were used to.

by daniel81 on Mar 6, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I said that to tennessee fan the other day

and he responded that it’s funny how UT fans now wait for basketball (although this season was a bigger dissapointment for them than for us). Welcome to Bizarro World!

I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!

by sleepytimetea on Mar 5, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

and as a Tennessee football fan, the likeness of this all is eerie let me tell you, but UT pulled the trigger too soon and I believe that Kiffin will be a nightmare for us. Mitch needs to be smart about this. Tennessee’s AD will be gone next year guarantee it.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Be Careful

It can always get worse. But that’s what makes the good times worthwhile. Being a UK fan right now is hard. Not because we don’t still love the program, but the fact that we can’t share the joy of success. The thrill of sharing victory. The passion of caring. Our pride is being hurt right now but perhaps it will temper us & only make us stronger in the long run. This season should separate the casual fans from the obsessed (in a good way) who bleed blue and have for many, many years. I count myself among the latter.

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice post, Tru.

I could write a chapter, or maybe a book, about this team (it wouldn’t be a good read).

In short, I had middling expectations for this team to start the season, and then they looked pretty strong in the exhibition games, so my hope jumped, and then came VMI. . .and UNC. . .

Despite some solid games against terrible teams during the OOC, overall I expected very little of this team in the SEC. And then we went 5-0 to start, including the thumping of Tennessee on their home court. “Hey,” I said to myself, “we could really kick some ass in the SEC. I can’t see how we can lose more than 2 or 3 games!”

And here we are. When it’s all said and done, am I that surprised that we’ll likely end the season somewhere in the neighborhood of 21 or 22 wins and 12-14 losses? Not really. In the big picture, that’s about what a lot of folks expected. It’s just this team has shown flashes of potential to be a very top team. They just have shown no ability for consistency, or ability to sustain that level of play, and our coach just doesn’t seem to get that out of them for more than 4 or 5 minute stretches.

Is the season an utter disappointment? Absolutely. Nevertheless, all there is to do now is cheer on the team for each and every remaining game, support the team AND the coach, and hope that the internal strife can be fixed, not so much for this season, but for the future of the program.

Regardless of whether it’s the NCAA or the NIT, all I want to see is this team play hard and finish strong, and lay it all on the line.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 8:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great attitude.

I agree.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

blbskue

I feel the same way. Thanks for putting into words what I could not today.

by kykat51 on Mar 5, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tru

Excellent analogy. Thanks for hanging with us when things are tough.

by kykat51 on Mar 5, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're welcome. Thanks for the kind words.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Striking Similarities

I live in Tampa and, as a long time Buccaneers fan, recently watched the Bucs squander a 9-3 start and collapse completely over the last 4 games of the season. In going from Division leader and playoff lock to a team in complete disarray that missed the playoffs and couldn’t even beat the lowly Raiders (who, like Georgia, had nothing to play for except for pride), I wondered what could have possibly caused such a monumental collapse to what began as an extremely positive season. Then, word starting leaking out (from “inside” sources) that Coach Gruden had lost the locker room. More and more, players who everyone admired and respected (and who had enjoyed success in the past) starting coming out with comments that, although cryptic, seemed to indicate that the team had grown tired of the Coach’s rantings and had simply stopped being motivated by his theatrics. Put simply, they had stopped playing for him, and it showed on the field over the last quarter of the season. Therefore, despite winnning more games than any other Bucs coach, along with several division titles and a Super Bowl, the Owners did what they felt they needed to do to save the franchise—they fired Gruden (and the GM) and replaced him with a young, unproven, but up and coming coach who, by all accounts, is both liked and respected by the players. Will this bold move pay off? Nobody knows. Was (is) Gruden a coach coach? Of this, I have no doubt. Should he have been fired? That’s a hard one, but all indications are that—for whatever reason—the players no longer respected him, and were therefore no longer willing to go to battle with him at the helm.

Now, replace UK for the Bucs, and Coach Gillispie for Coach Gruden, in the story above and tell me whether you agree that the similarities are striking. I’ll leave it up to the “owners” to decide whether a similar outcome is also warranted.

by tooblue on Mar 5, 2009 8:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

well

Jon Gruden’s players asked for his dismisal. That brings up a point though. I wonder if Mitch will talk to the team about what is going on.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's hope so...

Like Billy G, Coach Gruden was a “my way or the highway” type of coach who never seemed to mold his system to the players he was coaching.

by tooblue on Mar 5, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Your best analogy so far. Excellent.

To continue it further, I don’t think this plane crashed in a cornfield…instead I think it augered into Barnhart’s house. I wonder how badly he was hurt, as well?

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Mar 5, 2009 8:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Apathy

is probably the most accurate description of my mood during and after that game. I didn’t even yell at the TV after the mass substitution in the second half. When the game was over, I just didn’t care. I’ve never felt that way about a Kentucky team before, even football.

http://anythingbutgatorade.blogspot.com - yet another SEC sports blog

by Anything but Gatorade on Mar 5, 2009 9:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The funny thing is...

… as an outsider, you look at Meeks and Patterson and you can’t help but think, “How do these two guys, two of the best players in the SEC, fail to reach their full potential on such a regular basis?” And then you look at the whole roster and, save the obvious exception of Michael Porter, who really should never play meaningful minutes in a basketball game for Kentucky ever again (sorry), you see a lot of raw talent and athleticism. The freshmen aren’t perfect but have the ability to contribute if coached correctly.

Gillispie talks about his team’s toughness and competitiveness. Hey, I don’t see your squad giving up. I see a group of kids trying hard. It looks to me like they’ve been given the hopeless task of executing a nonsensical and pointless gameplan which can only produce results if factors out of their control happen to line up — like good matchups, or teams that shoot well from the perimeter.

You only have so much effort to give if you’ve been given a fool’s errand and the way it looks from here, that is what has happened to these kids. They try. They want to believe. But let’s face it. Gillispie’s coaching does not give them a chance. I feel badly for them.

You look at Billy Donovan’s kids. Not as athletic. Not nearly as athletic, to be bluntly honest. And they’ve lost a lot of games. But they’ve been in them all and most objective fans can see that they are a well-coached group who desperately needs maturity and size in the post. Add Marreese Speights back in and I honestly believe Florida runs away with the SEC crown this year.

My point is this. Does anyone really doubt that Billy Donovan would have swept the SEC if he had this Kentucky team? And I had to bring up the “Tubby” word, but wouldn’t he have done that, too?

This is on Gillispie and you’re right, he has been damaged professionally. Whether he realizes this or not and makes adjustments has yet to be seen. Surely his assistant coaching staff has the chops, X/Os and knowledge to help him maximize what he can get from his team.

Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com

by Gatorpilot on Mar 5, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Exception...

…that proves the rule.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Porter

Would be a decent reserve at SG or PG (5-10 minutes each). That’s how he was used in 2007 and 2008.

I see no reason Y he starts in 2009.

But the coach does, apparently.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

kind of like coury last year?

but i think porter does more

by uk1982 on Mar 5, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention

They had Speights last year and fell right on their face. And don’t forget, BIlly G is 2-1 against Billy D. Last year’s 1-1 coming with half a team.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gatorpilot

You’re full of it man. Billy D is overrated, I told you last year that this would happen to Florida. Billy D gets top recruiting classes nearly every year and yields few results outside of the back to back championships, which was totally on those players. As for Tubby, he started this downward trend three years ago and let’s not forget who recruited many of these players.
We can blame Billy G till we’re blue in the face, and he deserves blame most definitely, but when you have players that continue to make the same stupid mistakes every game I don’t know what you can do. Will somebody explain to MEEKS the court isn’t 100 foot long, and to Miller that you have to guard your guy all the time, and to our entire team that passing the ball to a guy with four defenders on him is a no-no. These are Junior Pro fundamentals that a coach shouldn’t have to waste his time on.
I wasn’t really riled up until reading some blog comments. Apathy is right. Let’s get over it. I was bummed last night too until immediately after the game when a commercial came on for Kosair Hospital and I saw the disabled children struggling just to walk. I looked at my girl and said you know what, there’s a lot more important things in life than this and I know one day we’ll be back. It kills me to become indifferent but when the players don’t have enough guts to step up on senior night and say hey, this team ain’t going to beat us, why should we keep caring about this team?

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Players following direction

Gillispie has told his team repeatedly to feed the ball to Patterson regardless of the number of defenders, and he praises Patterson for his toughness when he gets 6-8 shots blocked. These aren’t habits that kids developed in Junior Pro.

by Fortunatus on Mar 5, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BS On Billy D And Tubby Comments

Both are among the Top 10-15 coaches in college basketball today.

7 of the 13 scholarship players at UK were recruited by Gillispie.

You won’t find the current UK coach among the Top 50 such coaches.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

On whose board?

Tubby and Billy D aren’t on my top 30. Both good guys, both overrated coaches. Let’s move on.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seperate yourself

From Tubby’s sack, then wipe off your chin. Tubby started this trend at UK, time you admitted that. And I really don’t want to get into this topic.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't ever ...

… post anything like this again. Please.

You need to calm down.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That was baiting.

Don’t bait.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Links are below.

Best NCAA game coaching records.

Best overall coaching records.

Donovan well regarded on both lists. Tubby also on both.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't fall for that daniel guy's trap

He is just trying to piss people off

by btcoop71 on Mar 5, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's succeeding.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BS

There are some on here who are tickled that UK lost last night and want to use that as a way to insult us who didn’t care for the last coach. You know who you are. You pretend to be a UK fan but you aren’t. Your posts bleed of insults to the program and have been that way all year. I get baited by it and your dang right I respond to it. You throw rocks, I throw grenades.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You'd better stop right now.

This is a warning.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just for argument, er debate sake

who are your top 30 current college coaches if tubby and billy d are not on there?

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this was in response to daniel81's comment above

not trying to bait or argue, just interested in the list of his top 30 coaches

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would say

The guy from Pitt would be my first choice
In no particular order
The guy from LSU, Mark Few, the guy from Texas, Bill Self, Calipari, Coach K, Roy Williams around 30th, Bruce Pearl because of his style just needs a few more players but he gets you excited to watch a game, Tom Crean, Mich. State coach,…sorry, have to get back to you, have to pretend to work right quick :)

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks - thats not a bad list

i might argue that billy d and tubby are in that class. but you do have a good list going.

btw, we may not agree, but when you start a post with “gatorman, you are full of it” and then make the throw away comment that billy D and tubby are not even in your top 30 without any list – well, it typically goes down hill from there.

also, i have said before that i have a love/hate relationship with Forty – i love it when he responds to other posts, but i hate it when he responds to mine because he always has a fact or two to support his position. he and i can still disagree, but at least i can respect his interpretation of the fact(s). also, as a forty year fan, we can all learn something from him on the ebb and flow of UK basketball success…..

also – i need to work as well, but seeing as my work is related to the stock market, the talk of UK is actually a good distraction – how pitiful is that? :)

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We all need a distraction

At least in Memphis you can hit up the links about anytime you want!

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes,

but btwn the market and the wildcats i do not need another source of frustration in my life!

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

I know what you mean.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Kentucky were a stock

are we going to find a bottom?

by Gobe Igbloo on Mar 5, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK I'm back

I’m going to save myself some time. Tubby is a good coach, Billy D is too. I just get defensive because I didn’t think Tubby did a good job his last two years, and Billy D freaking coach’s Florida. They are obviously in the upper echelon of coaches. Sorry about the sack comment. I have a little Happy Gilmore in me… The price is wrong Forty :)

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No One I Know Is Happy That UK Lost

The coach THIS YEAR has done a pretty lousy job.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I

suspect that he is EVEN MORE unhappy then we are right now.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gillispie Is 7th Year Now

Donovan coached Marshall in 1995 and 1996, then Florida 1997 through 2001.

His 2000 Gators went to NC game, losing to Mich St, in his 6th year as HC.

Tubby coached Tulsa in 1992 thru 1995, then Georgia 1996 and 1997.

His 1998 team won the NCAA title in his 7th year as HC.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like it took 3 years at an SEC program for both

of them to do something “significant”

Thanks for the info.

by bluecrip on Mar 5, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Doing something significant isn't the only criterion

I default back to the “it’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game” when looking at a coach. It’s entirely possible to have a fairly mediocre won/lost record and be doing a great job as a coach if your talent level isn’t great. However, even with average talent a team can be fundamentally sound, run good sets, play hard, etc. A lot of the problems we see with this team aren’t attributable to poor talent, they are attributable to the coaching. By this time of the season they shouldn’t still be doing what they’re doing.

by Danvillecat on Mar 5, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that

and I think your point is the must frustrating team this season. If we played well on a fundamental level, but lost close games, things would be easier to stomach. This team just has collapses and periods of inefficency of epic proportions.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They are smoking the CHEEBAH!!!

That’s what makes them so schizo as a team!!! has to be……

by bluecrip on Mar 5, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've Said Wait-N-See On 3rd Year

And yes, UK is light years above either TAMU or UTEP as a program.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

forty

7 of 13 – never thought of it like that -

patterson, galloway, liggins, harrelson, miller – who am i forgetting?

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

D Williams And Pilgrim

UK had 6 open scholarships in 2008 class.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so in all fairness

he only has had access to 5 of his 7. that being said, your point is well taken – i still do not believe he has had time to recruit “his” type player BUT i will back off my position somewhat and say that you make a fair point that he has had plenty of scholarship room to sign his type of player…

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Donovan is a much better coach than Gillispie is right now. Gillispie surely has the potential the become a much better coach than he is, but he’s not there yet.

Donovan has struggled for two seasons, but the letdown after 2 NCAA titles in a row with the same team, only to have the majority of that team gone the next year is a big cliff to cilmb back up.

I’m not a big fan of Donovan, but he’s a very good coach.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BUt

Billy G can move to 3-1 against Billy D Saturday, Lord Willing!

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meaningless Stat

The Gator teams of 2008 and 2009 are hardly representative of what to expect from Donovan.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

WTF

Meaningless stat..?? From I guy that uses stats in EVEY debate…

What A joke

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Mar 5, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stats are meaningless to some

when they don’t support their point. Billy D had Lucas last year and remember how much we’ve heard about how we should of had him? His roster is usually stacked with top level recruits. After the first final four appearance, they flopped in the second round I can’t remember how many times before they got Brewer and Company. You remember Brewer, the guy a certain coach at UK wouldn’t recruit? I know Corey and I know his first choice was UK because he wanted to be close to his family. Just like Chris Lofton. Pitino and Smith both dropped the ball there.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Should HAVE, Not Should OF

Donovan is 22-7 in NCAA games. Gillispie is 3-4 in NCAA games.

Donovan has been to 3 FF. Gillispie has to buy a ticket to go to FF.

UK signed the #1 class with its 4 available scholarships in 2004. Morris, Rondo, Crawford, Bradley. Who should have been dropped to sign Brewer or Lofton?

It’s FALSE that UK wouldn’t recruit Brewer. He had a poor workout in front of them so they wanted to see him play again.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you

take a gamble on things like this. Just like picking up a draft pick. Who would have thought that Tom Brady an undrafted guy would turn out to be the quarterback he is? You cannot look back to that and make judgements. Just move on

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to nitpick

But according to Wikipedia:

Brady was selected with pick #199, a compensatory pick, of the 2000 NFL Draft.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

my

bad………….but still you get the point.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, MEANINGLESS

Gillispie has 2 W and 1 L against Donovan’s poorest teams in 10 years at Florida.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Man I should of

Consulted the grouchy grammar meister before posting. Come on 40, you’re being offensive, I thought you were a defensive man? Would you not say the last two years have been some of our poorest teams in the past decade as well? I think Teddy Dupay would bet on it, hehe.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Should Of Is Incorrect

Should Have is correct. It perpetuates a Kentucky stereotype when you do that.

This year is UK’s worst team in 20 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I will second that.

So when it’s two bad teams, doesn’t coaching prevail? Forty you are so wise, you’re like a miniature buddha covered in hair.

Tru-that was a good willed Anchor Man reference, nothing more.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not Always

Bad teams (Georgia) play well sometimes.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

60% of the time it works every time.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes old sayings have a lot of truth to them

The one that comes to my mind is: “if the only tool you have is a hammer the whole world looks like a nail” I think that may explain a lot about what is going on. GIllispie was hired primarily because of his success in turning around UTEP and Texas A+M. Perhaps he managed to land in a situation where his methods and coaching style were a perfect fit. It could be that the existing talent along with some JUCO’s would respond to his methods. Maybe all they needed was some discipline and the “my way or the highway” approach to pull it together?

It appears that the fit between his methods of coaching and motivating THIS team isn’t so good. He may be the hammer but they may need a different tool to get the most out of them and he isn’t flexible enough to see it. How long did it take him to make any adjustments to counter the defenses that were geared to stop Patterson and Meeks? With most good coaches it would have taken 4 trips up the floor, not several games.

The most successful coach in college football, John Gagliardi from St. Johns, has a saying, “there’s no one way to coach football”. He adapts to the talent he has. It’s resulted in 4 national championships on the DIII level and he’s broken Bear Bryant and Eddie Robinson’s records for wins. BCG appears to think there is one way to coach basketball and he’s going to persist in driving round pegs into square holes.

by Danvillecat on Mar 5, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great points

But if I’m a college basketball player and I need a coach to motivate me, then I’m not much of a player. Jordan motivated himself, that’s why he was great. I see us with wide open offensive looks but no players that can hit shots. I see us in rebounding position but nobody with the guts to block out. I see us making stupid mistakes time and time again.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong.

If you don’t think that part of Phil Jackson’s coaching responsibility is motivation of either Bryant or Jordan, I am sorry for you. In fact, that is why old Phil has lasted as long and is so well thought of in the NBA.

Futhermore, there is not a CEO in America business that is not responsible for motivation and moral, even down to the lowest level employee.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Mar 5, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

and how much money do these corporations spend on motivational classes and such.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And

How great are corporations doing in America, oh yeah. Sorry about that.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If

you would read research instead of popping off first you would know that the research shows that these things work.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the

whole point is that motivation does work if its done right. A coach is not there just to teach the game but to motivate as well and the only people who don’t think that is people who have never ever played a sport in their life.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Motivation

Is for the weak minded. Support you need, yes, motivation? Being able to play a college sport or have a job should be about all you need. If you can’t motivate yourself, can’t see how someone else is going to do it for you. Maybe for awhile, but not for the long haul.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Motivation

is key to leadership in any position. I think you are misunderstanding what is being said.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No I understand

But I"m telling you the best at most things are self motivated.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

best

thing you have said all morning. Any gifted athlete has to be self motivated. Shoot any person with success has to be self motivated. BUT, when the chips are down…….you must motivate. What is going on now will be the test of BG. Can he motivate these kids to get the season back on track? These kids are talented enough to win the SEC championship. There head has to be in the game though, thus BG’s job comes in………….when you have been beaten down it takes someone coming in and lifting you up for motivation when your spirit cannot make you self motivate.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What if you self medicate?

That’s something that I’d be interested in.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Read up on Jordan

Maybe Kobe needs it, some players need to babied, but it’s pathetic if you can’t get up to play sports when you’re getting a free ride.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It has nothing to do with babying players

It has to do with treating them like men and letting them know what their roles are and what’s expected. Jordan was always “the man” from UNC to the Bulls. He was expected to be the leader, play major minutes, and take the tough shots. Yes, he earned that because of his work ethic but if he had played for a coach who jerked him around by playing him 2 minutes one game and 30 the next even the mighty Jordan might have had some motivation problems. When it gets to the point where nothing you do is going to effect the outcome it’s difficult to stay motivated.

by Danvillecat on Mar 5, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

free

ride my butt. Daniel I suspect you have never played a sport in your life.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't bait.

Please. Respect your fellow poster, even when he is not being nice.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't

realize I was baiting

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh

and it wasn’t meant as disrespect but I truly believe that some people don’t understand how much these guys do. That is all I meant.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I get you.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect

I could school you in any sport you name, except skating, I don’t skate. I also know I’ve been closer to this team than any of you would know through reporting, but I won’t get into that either. The only thing respected on here apparently is stats that mean absolutely nothing. I could say Ohio State is the best football team of the past three years because they beat a bunch of scrubs but we know that ain’t true, right? And yes, having to run a few laps to get a scholarship is pretty much a free ride in my book.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ok

I am done. Tru, I get it now.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes motivation is subtle

When I said motivation I didn’t necessarily mean external motivation as in some kind of rah-rah type thing. Sometimes it’s just demonstrating to the player that you trust them and are depending on them. I had a coach in high school who was a great motivator and about all he did was let me know he was counting on me and depending on me.

Another part of motivating players is trust. Do they trust him? Pitino’s success with Pelphrey, Farmer, and all was partly due to the fact that they trusted him implicitly. They would run through walls for him because they believed in him and didn’t second guess.

by Danvillecat on Mar 5, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trust

With Gillispie’s remarks about his players in the last few games how much trust do you think they have in him these days?

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Farmer

hated him at first. He even said so himself in an interview I saw. Then he saw it pay off. These kids are not seeing hard work pay off. Hard to motivate.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bluecrip

I think the Kentucky way anymore is just to give up on the team and whine that we should of had the last coach. that’s all we heard when tubby was here, that’s all we hear now. These losses are Karma. We’ve fallen from being great fans to being a bunch of whiny babies. So much so, our players are starting to reflect that this year. It could all turn around tomorrow, but like I said, I think there’s plenty on here that don’t want to see that happen.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now hold on senor.....

I don’t think there are any folks here who want to see UK lose or take a dive. If anything all I have noticed is a perfect blueprint for a Rolaids commercial. NO ONE is happy at what has been happening. NO ONE has attended practice, set foot on the court, or gone through the trials and tribulations this TEAM has gone through THIS SEASON (unless we have a member posting here). All we are reduced to is being cheerleaders and armchair coaches.

I believe we are still great fans, we care so much that it REALLY HURTS when your Blue tinted sunglasses are smashed into your eyes causing us to see reality without them instead of blindness. The reality this season is that this team is an enigma. I don’t profess to know the ails of this team. I don’t think anyone here or anywhere REALLY KNOWS what ails this team. What I do know is that it has seemed ALL SEAON LONG teams have been having career nights against us. Whether it be karma, divine intervention or I didn’t change my drawers enough I don’t really know.

What I do know is that like you Daniel, everyone here (except Gatorpilot :> and a couple of others) wants to see UK reach the NC every year, even turn the boat around this year and make some noise. I also know that because of what has transpired this season many folks are weary of the minor ups and the deep lows that have come this season. I also know that if it weren’t for our passion and LOVE for this team no one would be posting on this site. There were almost a THOUSAND posts during the game last night! That’s the most I’ve seen on one thread here in a while (cue Forty :>), which goes to show that more and more folks are coming around.

Yes, we sometimes say things that get each other’s dander up but for the most part I don’t think anyone here really dislikes anyone else. UK basketball will get back to glory days but I don’t see a long reign of dominance anymore. Too much parity these days. Also, I agree that it requires MORE motivation by the players to succeed than it does from a coach, BUT a coach must be there for support and encouragement, which are forms of motivation.

Whiny? As long as I’ve been alive, I’ve heard that UK fans were fickle, obnoxious, know-it-all, crazy, one-sided, irrational, jaded and many other adjectives. Whiny is one I haven’t heard, but this me me me me me me mentality that has been sweeping our society probably lends itself to that description of UK fans these days. On the flipside I can easily apply that description to fans of many teams, even championship teams. :)

Stats offer perspective but don’t tell the whole story. It’s nice to be able to use them as a comparison but alone wouldn’t toast bread. The only time stats are vitally important…..during surgery. :) They do offer fresh perspective at times and give us grass to chew on. If no one cared for them the game of baseball would be an afterthought, traditions wouldn’t be carried on, history would have no relevance and Forty would have nothing to say. ha ha ha ha! (love you man!)

Coach G is doing what he does. I for one am not ready to throw him out with the dishwater yet. I AM SURPRISED THAT UK FANS ARE ALREADY CALLING FOR HIS REMOVAL……I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT RICH BROOKS WOULD HAVE TAUGHT US BETTER BY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would have underlined Coach Brooks name if I knew how but I bolded him instead.

GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!

by bluecrip on Mar 5, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I expected sweet 16 this year

And I believe we have the talent to do that, but not now. I agree with most of everything else.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And Still POSSIBLE

Got some work to do but UK can still get to Sweet 16.

At this point in 1983, NC State wasn’t like to make NCAA at all. A month later, they had swept through ACC tourney and beaten Phi Slamma Jamma to win NCAA title.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Billy G ran around looking for someone to hug (a la Jimmy V)

would anyone hug him? :-)

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

besides kygirl, of course

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ha ha

I believe in Billy G.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 5, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would too

I’m still with you Tink.

I do want to thank most of the commenters during and after the game. Sometimes when things are so bad, it is better to laugh than to cry. A little humor can go a long way.

by kykat51 on Mar 5, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet 16?

Even before the season began, very few knowlegdable roundballers and ESPN pundits (sometimes mutually exclusive groups) picked UK as sweet 16.

by hoboat33 on Mar 5, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet 16 = Tough

Only a couple of coaches (K and 1 other) have made 10 Sweet 16 in last 15 years (1994 thru 2008).

Pitino only has 8 Sweet 16 ever (in 22 years). Tubby has 9 in 17 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

with you on all counts except one……….this season can be salvaged. If we win out and make the tourney and make it to the sweet sixteen. All is better. But I DON"T think this is likely. They are a head case right now and its going to be heard to overcome. I do think that all this piling on by fans is not helping matters. When the chips are down, you must show your support. Now, I don’t mean here because frankly I would hope they would not come to this site or any other site to read all this. This is our venue. Our venting ground. I do wish though that Kentuckians would organize a rally and go to the lodge and cheer for them. I think that is the best medicine? What ? They don’t deserve it? Remember they are human. They feel the same things we do. Hurt and pain and whether we believe it or not…………I feel that they are in alot more pain then we are right now.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I

meant hard to overcome not heard :)

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree that we should show support

i live in memphis and my 10 yr old son had dress down day (could wear a t-shirt).

even though he cried last night because he knew this most likely meant the end of our dance streak, he wore a UK shirt to school today.

i told him i was proud that he was still wearing the colors……..

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I

have on my 1996 championship shirt. I just grabbed a shirt out of the drawer and this was the one. Kind of poetic I thought.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My only thought ...

… what does this say about Tennessee? We whipped them twice, handily. They must REALLY suck.

We as a program have been fending off rock bottom for about 5 years, beginning with the surprise run to the Elite Eight with a freshman dominated team that had a Chuck Hayes soul as its center. The next season saw us begin this struggle, but throughout the last four years we’ve watched last second wins over Central Floridas, miracle finishes … all just to keep us barely above water.

Perhaps it’s time for this to all sink below the line, to erase those “historical” markers that we all hold on a little to dearly to. Maybe the fans will open their eyes a little to what the expectations games really mean. If it’s never enough to just make the tournament, well how does it feel to sit out again? Won’t you enjoy victory more when you have forgotten what it looks like?

This is all silver lining stuff. We have watched a team lose interest in playing for the Blue and White, and that’s sad and it’s lots of people’s fault. Can you imagine what it must feel like to play on the Rupp court and sense that every person in the gym is waiting for you to fail? EXPECTING you to fail? How can you, in the end, not fail?

Gillispie’s look last night said it all: chewing his lips and gums without a single answer to stop what was happening on the floor. He has no answers, as he has assembled/been dealt a team that simply does not grasp or does not care to buy what he’s selling.

Last though: I don’t want to hear a single person tell me Kevin Galloway should play more. He helped lose that game as much or more than any player out there with careless passes in the clutch. You have got to understand that there’s a time for the highlight pass and a time — with 2:25 left — for something resembling composure.

Enough with the backseat coaching.

The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Mar 5, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

My HS Alma Mater In 1970

Cincy St X.

The team was mostly seniors who had been undefeated as sophs (JV team) going 18-0.

I thought they might go 16-2 with L to Roger Bacon HS (expected to be best team in city that year).

Well, they beat Roger Bacon TWICE that year. But finished 12-6 (not 16-2).

Ya never know.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in defense of galloway

although his drive was out of control, you do realize that meeks was not on the court? he should have know this, but i can just see him driving down the lane and then realizing to his horror as the defense collapsed on him – who do i throw it to? where is meeks? guess i better force it to patterson.

mainly a tongue in check comment, but i would not judge galloway on that one play

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good comment

hate to say anyone tried too hard last night, but he did…..

by memphis wildcat on Mar 5, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who remembers Rocky & Bullwinkle?

Well folks, there’s no denying it now. It’s high time for “Coach Bullwinkle,” Mr. Know-It-All Himself, to take his smug attitude (along with his impolite mouth) and leave Lexington. Like everyone else, I had a lot of hope for our new coach. However, (in addition to 2 gut-wrenching seasons of highly questionable decisions) he has consistently treated call-in fans on radio talk shows and other venues as if they were ignorant bumpkins. It’s obvious that he still fails to understand that many Wildcat fans are far more knowledgeable about sports than fans in any other part of the country. He just doesn’t get it.

Good-bye “Billy G” – "THE" University of Kentucky can do MUCH better. And we will.

And to think, we thought Tubby was bad…

Jeffrey W. Smith of LetsWorkSmart.com

by LetsWorkSmart_com on Mar 5, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not Yet

With the recruits coming in (assuming PPat & Jodie stay) he gets one more year. If he doesn’t do anything with next year’s team he should voluntarily pack up, empty the wine cellar at his fabulous house and go to where ever his next employment may land him.

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never thought I'd hear

People from Lexington talking about being impolite. You must never have been stuck in traffic there, or dealt with the 90 percent prick rate that the city consists of.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Florida and OSU who gets tons of talent every year ended up in NIT last year, and their teams continue to struggle this year. Did they lose their job yet??

Stop being ridiculus, if the team doesn’t bounce back in year 4 I’ll be calling for Billy’s job too. NOT NOW!

by khlim2 on Mar 5, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But that's logical

And logic isn’t followed around here.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude.

Get of the negative. Quit baiting your fellow posters. Or else.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tru

You have me screwed up. Look at my first post today. I was trying to encourage but people are hell bent on trying to throw out tubby and billy d stats and this and that. It’s basically hate billy g day. You won’t find me making any harsh comments unless I was baited, doesn’t make it right.
Why do people get so out of shape over blogs? Get so mad over opposing opinions? At the end of the day this stuff doesn’t matter at all, but it doesn’t take Freud to see what’s going on in the minds of some and it’s beginning to remind me of the end of Tubby’s run when people were happy we lost just so they could be right and that my friend is pathetic, no other way to describe it. I disapprove of Dusty Baker but you bet your butt it’s not going to stop me from pulling for the Reds.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I

think the personal attacks aren’t warranted. Also, attacking each other isn’t going to help us at all. I suggest you read his post mortem.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have been reading you.

You gotta stop picking at people. You made a bunch of drive-by comments that just aren’t like you.

Look, sometimes it’s just better to let it go. You don’t have to get the last word on everything, just let some of this stuff go by unchallenged. I do. If it’s nonsense, fine, let somebody else fight the battle for a while.

All I’m saying is to stop making comments that make others angry. If you disagree, say so and state your reasons. It doesn’t matter how well made the argument is, sometimes you just won’t convince people.

And don’t make personal attacks. You know I won’t stand for that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem.

It happens.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I

would say that the measure of a job is productivity. That is what will determine how long he stays.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why...

would Jodi and Patterson stay for another year of this?

Seriously.

by tooblue on Mar 5, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Another Year

I agree that it would be a surprise for them to come back, but maybe they see something from the inside and have some hope of a turnaround next year. Plus, IMHO their stock hasn’t exactly been rising lately. Perhaps, I’m only guessing of course, but they might not want to leave with this bad taste of a season in their mouths (sorry that was very badly written). Perhaps, PPat with Orton coming in, wants to show what he could do at power forward, his natural position for the pros. I could come up with several other reasons, but hey would be pure speculation.

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it

depends on what is going on. If the team chemistry is bad then yes I do think they will leave no matter what their stock is. If its something else and our team is just unlucky right now then I do think they stay.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I say

Show em all the door but Patterson. If Gillespie goes, most of these players should too. I had bad teachers but it didn’t keep me from learning.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 9:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This Season

Most BBN bloggers agree that we have 2 of the best players in the SEC in Meeks & Patterson but what about the TEAM? Other than the show of admiration for Jodie’s 54 at Tennessee, I haven’t seen any real bonding between this group of players. I suspect that the chemistry, ahh that elusive component, is sorely lacking and is a major reason that this team doesn’t pass well, rebound well, shoot well, defend the 3 well, etc. But maybe it has a little to do with coaching as well. Oh well back to speculating. This team would be a good study in some of the Psychology courses at UK. I would love to see the results of that!

by Bluegilla on Mar 5, 2009 10:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think both Pat and Jodie would stay

simply because their stock is dropping with the team. And I think both young men have too much pride to leave the program in mess.

by khlim2 on Mar 5, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Two good points.

I’ve seen how mad Patterson gets when the team doesn’t perform, so he immediately strikes me as someone who wouldn’t leave a job unfinished, so to speak. And Jodie went through too much with his injuries last year to not want to prove himself as a great player.

But I also think a driving factor in them staying would be to just graduate. Stick with the free ride on a scholly and have fun playing ball for the next few years. Get a good degree, see if the NBA/Euro league will take them, and if not, find a good white collar job in an ivory tower and live happily ever after.

by BlueInNash on Mar 5, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you are right...

My bet…Meeks will stay, but Patterson will take the money and run. And before we ressurect that “wait til next year’s recruits come in” mantra, let’s all remember that the same exact thing was being said last year at this time about Liggins, Miller, Galloway, and Harrellson, and look at the impact that they had on this year’s record. With a few exceptions, freshman (and Juco transfers) do not typically turn a team around. Instead, the natural (and expected) progression of players as they grow from inexperienced freshman to battle-worn veterans is what makes a team successful. Although I have every hope that Miller, Liggins and Galloway will be better next year, I am not one of those who thinks that Orton and Vilarno (sp?) will magically turn this team into a national power.

As for the pride and honor thing, I have less faith in today’s youth than you do, and I rarely see young professionals these days chosing loyality and hard work over a fatter paycheck at another company.

Once again, however, I hope you are right.

by tooblue on Mar 5, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Orton will have a very similar

contribution that Patterson did his freshman year. Hood will also have some immediate impact, probably along the lines of Miller.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Patterson's stock is not dropping...Meeks maybe.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Mar 5, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hoze

he wasn’t even listed as the top prospects on SI last week. Meeks was.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true

but I do find it odd that he wasn’t mentioned………anyone have a link about his CURRENT stock?

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The NBA scouts are smarter than us and any sports magazine.

The scouts don’t give a hoot in heck how a team is doing. The cold hard fact is that Patterson is playing out of position and has absolutely no help inside (even Gillispie acknowledges this). The scouts look at ones skills, potential, body size, and attitude…all traits that Patterson has in spades. The kid is a stud…another year is not going to change any of his upsides.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Mar 5, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Could not..

… have said it better myself…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Mar 5, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Patterson’s stock as an NBA draft pick in any given year likely will have much more to do with who else is contending for the 4 spot drafts than how his team is doing or whether he’s playing out of position. It seems to me that Patterson has some strong competition this year, but maybe he would next year too. I don’t have time right now to think about it.

Bottom line – the scouts know his abilities and his potential. Whether or not UK does well, gets national media attention, etc., won’t affect that too much. All that being said, IF he returns, and IF Daniel Orton can make an immediate impact at the 5, and Patterson becomes even MORE dominate as a beastly 4, AND UK does well on the season, AND his competition amongst other 4’s is the same or not as strong next season, then his stock could go up dramatically.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Baby Waters in the house

So I caught the game on tv but dont really care too much about it right now. My son Jude Patrick Waters was born on the third and we are going home from the hospital today. He was dressed in his little KY outfit last night cheering on the cats for his first game but alas they didnt pull it out. He was 9lbs 2oz and 20 and a half inches. His hands and feet are huge. If this kid has any coordination I see him being a great power forward.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Mar 5, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations!

Let’s get Gillispie some tape! :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Congrats!!!

Being a father has, far and away, been the greatest experience of my life (and it keeps getting better).

By the way, any truth to the rumor that your newborn son has already received a letter of interest from Coach G?

by tooblue on Mar 5, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

YEAH!

That just puts everything in perspective huh? WAHOO!! Congrats to you and your wife!

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations Davw83!!!

I have two daughters who I live my life for. The birth of my first one changed my life forever. Always nice to add another UK fan to this world. Really pisses off those “other” fans! :)

by bluecrip on Mar 5, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations

“JP Waters”
in 18 years he can be wearing UK blue. Let’s hope it doesn’t take 18 years to get this team in order so that he can play on a Wildcat team to be proud of.

by StillCatwoman on Mar 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Congrats!

Enjoy this time – it goes by so fast. My baby will be three this summer and its wild how time flies.

I believe in Billy G.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Baby Bischoff in the house

My grandson Jude Patrick Bishchoff watched the game with me last night. He was born 14 days ago, weighed 9 lbs 13 oz and was 20.5 inches. He also has huge hands and feet and was wearing his Wildcat outfit. Amazing – huh? He agreed with his Pop that the Cats need a major overhaul in their thinking from top to bottom. He’d like a look from the Coach too!

by Pap Cat on Mar 5, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Awwww!

That’s so sweet. A UK game at 14 days…y’all are bringing him up right.

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 5, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...

… Patterson will understand. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We

understand…..wink wink

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

KSR Blog is reporting

That Larry Vaught reported Mitch Barnhart met with Patterson’s mom last night after the game for about 10 minutes. The meeting was cordial, but she was apparently upset that the loss last night meant Pat would never play in the NCAA’s. I assume this meant the NCAA tournament

by Sharpera on Mar 5, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't understand

What exactly did she want Barnhart to do about it? Bribe the selection committee?

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is

she was upset with BCG’s coaching and was informing Mitch about it. Hopefully Patterson hasn’t made up his mind yet. I’m not even sure he would be a lottery pick this year. Next year, he probably would be a lottery pick.

by Sharpera on Mar 5, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aww, geez.

If that is accurately reported, then come on. If I was PPat, I’d be mortified.

And again, if that’s really the context of the discussion, then Mama Pat needs to cut the cord.

by BlueInNash on Mar 5, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting. Not sure what to think.

There are all kinds of rumors flying. It’s obviously not a good situation right now.

GBB!!!

by OGETARTS on Mar 5, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I

don’t believe it………sorry I don’t believe it at all. KSR needs to watch that. I mean if it were true……….who would know. I don’t think PP is going around telling his buddies about it. Just another rumor.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I Asked A Friend In WV Who Knows Her

I’ll see what he finds out, if anything.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

I read about it and I think there are some assumptions there. Mom was crying but they don’t know what about. I would cry to. I feel sorry for these kids. That is the part that makes me want to cry.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One

thought here……..some of yall who want BIlly gone. Who do you think would come here right now? For four years now under two coaches this program has not played up to “Kentucky Standards”. Don’t you think that it send a red flag to other coaches that maybe Kentucky has some internal issues?

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

For 8 Years Under 1 Coach (1960 Thru 1967) UK Didn't Play Up To Its Standards, Either

Those standards being 85% W-L record, 4 NCAA, 1 NIT, 1 Helms Trophy, et al in the 1930’s – 40’s – 50’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Travis Ford!!!

by Tori on Mar 5, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's no more proven than Gillispie at this point.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the other thing about a coaching change

In these economic times, how is the university going to afford it? They will need to pay the buyout for BCG. Given the upheavel in the program over the past 4 years, they will also likely need to pay well above market to recruit a top-flight coach. So where is this money coming from?

The question is not a simple matter of getting the dollars – I’m sure enough people could be persuaded to give the dollars needed to get it done. The question is more about perception – is this the type of spending that the university/state wants to be doing when there are budget cuts, unemployment, etc. Look at the blowback from the Calhoun salary question. That heat will be multiplied in spades if multiple millions are needed to get rid of one coach and bring in another (all, of course, with no guarantee of improvement).

At a minimum, I think that costs Barnhart his job, and potentially all the way up to Lee Todd.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 11:33 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Buyout

Is that listed in the M.O.E? Because if it is not, he doesn’t have a signed contract to fall back on to get buyout money.

by btcoop71 on Mar 5, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

MOU Is Legally Binding, Too

And terms of MOU would have to be met.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why did I put an E instead of a U?

Larry (Barnhart), Curly (Todd), Moe (Billy G)?

by btcoop71 on Mar 5, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I made that assumption

Having not seen it, I can’t be sure, but it would shock me if Billy had been working without a “net” for this long. He aint that dumb (I hope).

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You

have a point there. But, I think that if Boosters threaten to pull their support as they did against Tubby then you have another issue. The Boosters fund that program. Without them they cannot afford to pay Billy.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That Never Happened

You can’t believe what you read elsewhere.

The coaching change in 2007 was strictly voluntary on the part of the coach who made it.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Forty

 I am not saying that he was fired but the months leading up to it………Boosters in fact threatened the AD. I don’t think it made a difference with Mitch but I am saying that the University could justify what NY was saying by saying that the Boosters refused to pay Billy.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some May Have

But trust me, it had no bearing on what happened in March 2007.

I knew it was coming in October 2006. Didn’t know WHERE but knew it would happen.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If

I was Tubby I would have left to. That is all I will say about it.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but who out there

would we want as coach?

by StillCatwoman on Mar 5, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I

have no idea. I know I want the guy who is there to right the ship.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, I really really wanted succes for BG

I can’t even guess what the problem is and clearly he’s down to guessing as well.

by StillCatwoman on Mar 5, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yea

I think your right there

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Teams raise their level against KY

I was stunned by the after the game quote by the Coach: On Georgia’s play overall…
"A lot of teams don’t play the way they do until they play Kentucky. Going back to a competitive level, it’s my fault. A lot of teams seem to be having really good games against us."

It does not seem the Coach has fully steeped himself in the history of KY basketball. If he didn’t understand that is how teams view KY, how can it be expected to that our players would?

I am being reminded of the Peter Principle, only hope I am wrong.

by RonM on Mar 5, 2009 11:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

speaking

of history……….didn’t he make some kind of remark or smack against Kentucky fans last night? It was about “I don’t care about this history stuff?”.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding the debate over UK's coach,

the Peter Principal does come do mind, but does Sayre’s Law also apply?: “In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue.”

by catmax on Mar 5, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna get CBG a shirt with the words...

“It’s my fault” airbrushed on the front. With a little frowny face. I’m sure he’s getting so tired of saying those words, now all he’ll have to do is just point to the shirt.

by BlueInNash on Mar 5, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ill Omen

What an inauspicious portent for UK BB: Two consecutive Peter Principle hires.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Only Count One (Gillispie)

The prior one won NCAA title, 5 SEC titles, 5 SECT championships, 76% of games overall, and 72% of NCAA games in 10 years (all consistent with UK all-time standards).

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Billy Needs Joe Hall's Advice

This year reminds me in many ways of Kentucky’s 1973-74 season. As many of the older UK fans will recall, that season was the second year for Coach Joe B. Hall. Much was expected from Joe’s team that year. The roster included a large number of juniors who were considered the nation’s best recruiting class when they came out of high school on the spring of 1971. Kentucky entered the season ranked in the top 10 but ended the year losing four of their last five games, including a 20+ point loss at home to C. M. Newton’s Alabama team, which was ranked in the top ten at the time. The team’s record in ’74 was 13-13. Many thought Coach Hall was in over his head like many are saying about Coach Gillispie today. The next year, with that stellar 1971 recruiting class returning as seniors and the aid another highly rated recruiting class, Joe guided the Cats to the final four, losing the national championship game to John Wooden’s last UCLA team. The 1975 season laid the foundation for Joe’s coaching career at Kentucky. Over a ten-year period from 1975-84, Joe would coach Kentucky to three final fours, including, as we all know, the 1978 National Championship. And who knows, had Sam Bowie not had the leg problems, perhaps there would be another national championship banner or two hanging in Rupp Arena. In many ways Coach Gillispie is at crossroads in much the same way that Coach Hall was in 1974. Let’s hope that Coach Gillispie seeks Joe’s advice in the off season. I’m sure Joe would be there for him if Billy would just ask.

Cotton Cat

by Cotton Cat on Mar 5, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good

post Cotton. Also we don’t have the juinors that he had.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Integration And Big Men

The next year (1975), UK added 2 SEC caliber African-American recruits (Givens, Lee) and 2 SEC caliber Centers (Robey, Phillips).

Those were big reasons for improvement from 1974 to 1975.

Respectfully Joe Hall is a much better coach than Billy Gillispie has shown himself to be (thus far).

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Players talk too much

I read 4-5 posts from the past few days by Larry Vaught at the Danville Advocate Messenger. Among those quoted are Meeks, Patterson, Porter, Harris and Harrellson. All of them are saying that other players on the team must play better. One seldom-used player said Patterson and Meeks need to become leaders.

Not a single one said, “I need to play harder.” Or “I need to make better decisions.” It doesn’t seem mean spirited, but it doesn’t seem healthy either. They need to stop the public psychoanalysis.

by Fortunatus on Mar 5, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Since he is all mighty......

….according to Thom Brennamen anyway…..

by btcoop71 on Mar 5, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Notice

one thing…………..TIM! That is one great kid and I DESPISE Florida! I want my son to emmulate that kid though. He is awesome! Inside and out. But Tim did it, not the team but Tim. We have no leader on this team. Fort if what you say is true, its speaks volume of what this teams problem is and its lack of leadership on the court.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember... if you spend 5 minutes with Tim Tebow...

Your life will be better for it.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From Someone With Very Close Connections To UKAA

Who said, “I think Larry hit the nail on the head. I hear there’s a lot of very unhappy players.”

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I fully believe

That if this team were winning, there would be no unhappiness. Winning = happy players, losing = unhappy players. Players moods/feelings are an output, not an input.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Mar 5, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree

This goes for all sports, not just college basketball. You never hear about chemistry issues on winning teams. Winning cures all.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Mar 5, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

heck

yeah! If they were happy I would seriously go up there and pack their stuff for them and drop them off at Bluegrass Airport. I would even pay for their tickets! No one likes losing.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2002 Unhappy, Then 2003 Happy

Prince off to NBA. Carruth, Parker, Chiles sent elsewhere.

Replaced by Azubuike, Barbour, Cote, and Stockton.

22-10 became 32-4 with many of the same players.

Some of the bad apples (on 2009 team) may have to go.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are the bad apples..?

Other then “maybe” Liggins selfishness, I’d say that the only other bad apple is Billy G. himself..
He will yank a player over 1 mistake… We’re not going to get a players best game if he is playing nervous or scared to make a mistake…

Billy G. is the problem, IMO… I know others on this board feel different, that’s just my opinion..
I hope he proves me wrong…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Mar 5, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't know if there are any ...

… but there have certainly been hints that there may be.

This reminds me a lot of Team Turmoil. What we saw last year and this year are diametric opposites — last year we saw a team pull itself up by the bootstraps. This year, we have seen a team collapse under the tiniest bit of adversity.

That tells me we have no leadership on this team, and that leaves the door open for disaffection. Gillispie may have a part in it as well, but it could well be out of his control for right now.

We’ll know if there are people thrown off the team after this year. No coach wants to do that midseason, and if we see that happen, we may be able to draw some tentative conclusions. If not, then maybe the absence of disciplinary action may be instructive in itself.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I definately think Billy G is the bad apple.

I don’t think they will fire him though. I’m all for Rick Barnes!!

by rsparks on Mar 6, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who reportedly has turned us down not once... but twice

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What has Rick Barnes done?

Really. I like him too, but he’s not exactly Pat Riley. If we fire Billy G, we’d be lucky to get John Pelphrey, who isn’t exactly setting the world on fire either.

by daniel81 on Mar 6, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

If the worst were to happen and we were in the market for a new coach, Jamie Dixon from Pitt or Sean Miller from Xavier would be far better options.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 6, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You ...

… are engaging in badgering and crusading.

Stop.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, BUT we started

6-7 last season for goodness sake. That team didn’t fall apart internally, and while people weren’t clamoring for his head, the BBN was bitching constantly about how Gilllipie’s hard practices were hurting everyone, and his game day practices were wearing people out. That team, under PLAYER leadership of Joe and Ramel, fought, scratched, grinded, pissed, and spit their way to finish 12-4.

By contrast, this team, which seems to lack any PLAYER leadership, puffed out their chests and got cocky after an okay OOC and a great SEC start. After a few losses we shouldn’t have had (the first attributed by EVERYONE to the players just overlooking the opposition), they crumbled. What started as a small spot after the losses to Ole Miss/Mississippi State/South Carolina has now grown to full blown internal cancer, or at least it looks like that might be the case.

These guys need player leadership. My overall point is that even if this team is unhappy with something going on behind the scenes or with their coach, they still need to fight through it and play to their potential. Joe Crawford was benched tons last season, especially at the start, for disagreeing with the coach. He didn’t just give up on the season. Gillispie’s substitution/starting lineup patterns were often just as bizzare last season as this – the players fought through it and found ways to win games. This group just doesn’t have that fortitude, and I think a big part of it is a lack of player leadership and inspiration. There’s no one or two guys to rally around. It should be clear that Patterson and Meeks would fill that role, but they aren’t, and it seems like the biggest rallying player on the team is Dwight Perry.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, Bibs,

this is the best comment I’ve seen on a sad situation. You can have a screaming coach (think Bob Knight), you can have a quiet coach (think John Wooden), you can have a pompous coach (think Adolph Rupp), etc, etc, etc,. But if you don’t have a team leader or two, you ain’t got nuthin’.

This is not a severe criticism of the players; please don’t take it that way. There are people who are born/raised to be leaders and those who are not. I don’t see one on this year—YET. The most promise I see is Miller, and he’s not aggressive and outspoken enough yet to get it done. So we are where we are.

No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!

by oldcat'69 on Mar 5, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was there last night........

As a birthday present to myself ……. ha HA! And I must say that the loss didn’t bother me as much as having to sit next to THE MOST obnoxious “UK fan” of ALL TIME. What does that tell ya?

The highlight of the night was that guy dancing with the mascot AND Scott Padgett winning the young lady another 5,000!

I think a lot of people jump the gun when they are hollering for Gillispie to leave. But you’re also entitled to your opinion. I say give him a couple of more years.

To quote a fan behind us last night “NIT here we come!”

by uk1982 on Mar 5, 2009 12:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Senior Night

I think it all boils down to one thing…

I’ve been a reader of this blog for the whole season, but this is the first time I’ve felt compelled to post.

Kentucky is 83-5 on Senior Night in the HISTORY of the program. This squad took a thumping from an 11-18 team that is in shambles. It comes down to PRIDE and this group doesn’t have it. The letters on the front of that jersey used to will a win from the lucky few that put them on. Now, it appears that it doesn’t hold the same value. PRIDE makes you find a way. PRIDE makes you so angry when you get put on the bench for a walk-on that you wouldn’t let it happen again. PRIDE makes you defend your home court with a passion. PRIDE used to drive the CATS. PRIDE used to drive our fan base. There isn’t anything to have pride in now and that is just disappointing. I love the CATS and will continue to watch and cheer, but the apathy that many have referred to has certainly set in here. I don’t know what I think of Billy, and I won’t decide that until I have more information. However, he does things that make me wonder without end.

Love the posts here and the civil conversation. It’s a great place to discuss our great nation of blue. I just wish we had a couple more positive things to talk about.

GO CATS!

by ukcat2169 on Mar 5, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Welcome.

It will get better. Maybe not soon, but eventually. Hang in there, and thanks for the great comment.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Tru,

It will get better and I’ll be there cheering when it does. I just hope it is sooner than later.

I want to throw another question out there that has been on my mind. This has probably been touched on elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it. With BG not signing his contract yet (which I believe is still true), what are the chances HE could walk away? I agree with your “can’t be fired after only two years,” but what is binding him to the school? Not suggesting he would ever do such a thing, but it is a very curious situation. The tough guy, stubborn practices he subscribes to would certainly lead you to believe that it couldn’t happen. Pressure gets to people in different ways and Tubby endured it much longer than I ever could. Just an interesting thought I have been wondering about.

by ukcat2169 on Mar 5, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't say it never happens...

Might as well post my source.

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030309aaa.html

Not sure about the discrepancy. Clearly ukathletics cuts out some years for some reason.

Still the point is this is only the third loss on Senior Day since 1965. Doesn’t happen very often and there is a reason for it. PRIDE!

by ukcat2169 on Mar 5, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i wholeheartedly agree with you

For me anyways, it’s too early for me to say “FAR GILLISPIE!” But man oh MAN he does things sometimes that make me wonder what he’s thinkin. (i.e. the first SC game in which there was plenty of time left to foul, and even if they made the foul shots, uk easily could’ve came back and won the game, but either a. didn’t tell them to foul or b. they chose not to foul). Thus resulting in SC running down the clock and hitting the game winning shot. Ugh. So aggravating.

And the SEC tourney last year when Stevenson (i believe it was) blocked a foul shot cause he was instructedby Gillispie to do so?!

Maybe he just is still a young coach still learning or maybe i’m rambling! I just really want him to succeed here and help get us back where we should be.

I love the posts here as well.

by uk1982 on Mar 5, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's Tru's fault

He was saying the other day we should play in the NIT if invited. The Big Baller in the sky is now making that come true, Tru, haha. See man, I told you the NIT was responsible for wrecking the lives of kids, the recession and now Jon Hood’s stress fracture. Isn’t UK’s baseball team supposed to be awesome this year? The sun is shining and the diamond is calling.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

:-)

Well, there you go.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Give Tru a break.

It’s the curse of Jeanine Edwards. There is no hell like a wrath of a woman scorned.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Mar 5, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

u reminded me!!

of a movie i saw passengers, were they ghost too, not yet realizing that they were dead someone has to come back to show them the way ( GORGIA)

by Krntuckyfan430 on Mar 5, 2009 2:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You've been indulging

In the sweet leaf today too, huh. :)

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sobering stat

After getting drowned with another heavy rain of 3s last night I was curious as to exactly how well our opponents shot the trey against us in our 11 losses. Yep, it’s depressing. Our opponents including the OOC losses have shot 104-223 for a whopping 46.6%.

by slidemank on Mar 5, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's nuts

Shows how important the three ball is.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah........

and you were talking about how offense is more important than defense. For our opponents that’s definitely been true, but in our case we only have one real three point threat so perimeter defense is key for us…………..and obviously very lacking. If ya got no shooters you’ve got to make up for it somewhere. Damn, I miss the days of Farmer, Delk, Mills, and company……….

by slidemank on Mar 5, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s like, is it their good shooting or our bad defense, or both? Teams seem to be unable to miss against us.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How About Fitch?

His FG % and 3-pt FG % career stats were comparble to Delk.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah, Fitch was great!

There are many others we could reel off…………..those just came to mind first.

by slidemank on Mar 5, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt......

Some of it is bad defense but we seen a lot of crazy contested shots game after game too. I mean, my God, that’s a little over 28 points a game average over those 11 games. Givin up 9 threes a game……………..that’s just ridiculous. Man, we need some good shooters badly!

by slidemank on Mar 5, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The three you mentioned above

Weren’t that highly recruited, but they could fill it up. Sometimes I think you should take a chance on a kid if he’s a great shooter. They say slone is but he’s never in the game long enough to tell.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Slone

Does not have SEC caliber basketball skills. He’s a decent walk-on, not more, not less.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DELK Not That Highly Recruited?

Beg to differ.

Farmer was also well regarded (Top 50 range) in 1988.

Mills not so highly recruited but had SEC scholarship offer from Georgia in 1994.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well.........

highly recruited or not, they had conrfidence shooting the ball and didn’t think about it when they were open. We are seriously lacking that and have been. Porter sure did look much more comfortable in that shooting position last night though eh?

by slidemank on Mar 5, 2009 3:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Right.

Like the first two threes we took last night. Harris and Porter wide open, just caught and shot and guess what? Nothing but net. See I think Billy G is a decent offensive player caller. We get a lot of open looks but we don’t have players comfortable taking the shots.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Our problem last night wasn't scoring.

In many of our losses, we haven’t had trouble putting the ball in the basket, and generally our shooting percentages are high.

We: A. Turn it over too much (not really a problem last night) so that we don’t take as many shots as our opposition, or B. Simply let our opposition score more than us.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I have to ask...Does this team accept a bid to the NIT?..if invited

…there seems to be some speculation as to whether they would. I assume this is mostly internet rumor

by teambeam on Mar 5, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hard To Imagine Bottles Allowed By Security In Rupp Arena

It was apparently reported by the radio broadcasters that they were thrown at Coach Gillispie and players in the tunnel leading to locker rooms.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

?!

Way to kick them when they’re down. Some “fans” huh? That makes me SO mad!!

by uk1982 on Mar 5, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Billy resigns!

That is the headline I would like to see.
I understand it is very unpopular and considered stupid or idiotic to suggest that we would be better off cutting our losses now, but how long do y’all want to see man to man defenses that cannot defend the 3, driving guards or solid post play? How long to you want to see good athletes looking tired and confused on the court because their coach thinks that they should put it all on the line BEFORE the game? I know several D1 coaches who will have teams in the tournament this year and have before. Not one of them think game day practice makes any sense whatsoever. There is such a thing as “game legs” and a rested mind able to concentrate at game speed. Any of you good athletes out there know that. The prevailing winds say that if BG leaves there is no chance PP and JM will stay. I would argue the opposite. I think their love and respect for their coach has deteriorated markedly this season. I think a new guy might inspire them more to stay than cause them to leave.
BG has not taught a solid group of players a consistent offense or defense. He seems to think that “toughness” is all that is needed to win games. Wrong. Solid strategy, intelligent substitutions and genuine respect for the system are needed and all are missing. Any team with a bonafide D1 coach and two players as good as PP and JM must get into the NCAAs. Period.
I can tell you for certain that BG has very, very little support from the most influential UK boosters. Mike Casey is not the only intelligent observer who thinks he is in over his head.
Read Larry Vaughts last couple of columns; or Clay’s latest.
Nothing anyone says here is going to influence Mitch Barnyard.
But, this is a UKBB blog and is supposed to be about our opinions.
We have an inflexible Head Coach whose lack of X and O ability is being exposed game after game.
There is a growing group, including myself as a former UK letterman, who know BG is not the man for the job.
The whole “it will only damage us more” if he leaves now does not hold water.
A new guy could salvage as many recruits as possible, bring in his own, pitch PP and JM hard on a new style and more support without the ridiculous game day beatdowns and we would be equal to or ahead of where BG will take us and we would be on the way to what everyone on this site and others is looking for: a return to the place where The University of Kentucky is respected as a classy, WINNING program that takes pride in its considerable tradition including a Head Coach that treats his players respectfully (instead of trashing them to the media constantly), who treats the media respectfully and who doesn’t have to be reminded that every team from Gardner-Webb to last place UGA will give UK its best shot because of the uniforms we wear, the banners in the building and the thousands of loyal fans in the stands, on the radio and TV.
Billy Clyde Gillespie is not the man for this job.
Mitch made a mistake.
We all supported his decision.
But, two full years of frustration and outright ineptitude are enough.
Billy, please don’t sign that contract.
We will all wish you well wherever you decide to coach when you politely and quietly leave the Lexington City limits.

by ukfastcat on Mar 5, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I Did Not Support It

Once Tubby decided to leave, I preferred UK choose someone of his caliber as his replacement.

Instead UK chose an inexperienced coach with few accomplishments on his resume.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We tried...

And were turned down if you will recall.

After the Donovan fiasco and what would appear to be a subtle inquiry of Rick Barnes, Barnhart needed a coach who would say “yes” when asked. It would have been an embarassment of epic proportions if we had gone after an Izzo or a Self and been turned down again.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right, chirop

That’s the part that irritates me about second-guessing the Gillispie decision now. What exactly were all these myriad other fabulous options we had? It’s easy to say, hey, not my job to come up with the right guy for the job, but to me, if you’re going to complain about the decision that was made (especially if you’re going to complain NOW, when it’s like shooting fish in a barrell), I really think it’s only fair for you to bring it with who you realistically thought WAS a good choice. It’s easy to say, oh we should have picked a proven, experienced, accomplished conference-champion and NCAA-game winning coach who was ready and willing to leave their current situation…well sure, that’s what EVERYONE wants. I didn’t want Tubby to leave, but since he chose to do so, he had to be replaced with someone, and I’m with chirop that if was a perfectly rational decision to gamble on an unproven but supposedly up-and-coming, uber-driven, coach-of-the-moment type, rather than swing and miss AGAIN on another more experienced name guy (actually, I have an issue with people saying we whiffed on Barnes, because as far as I’ve heard he wasn’t offered, and I didn’t want him anyway, but the point is, the perception is that UK was snubbed by him).

Unfortunately, there are few coaches of Tubby Smith’s accomplishments, and even fewer (any?) who are up for grabs at any one time. Comparable programs UNC and UCLA managed it with their last job openings, but because there just happened to exist major name coaches with major ties to their universities. I wish to god Ford or Pelphrey had had those accomplishments, but they did/do not.

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 5, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There is something I like about Forty

Even though he did not particularly like the hire of Coach G, he continues to support him as needing at least 4 to 5 years to get it going once again.

Now to me that shows his love for UK basketball, even though he is not an alumni of UK, but Purdue.

I am not a graduate of UK either. My love for the Cats goes back to my younger years and my Dad’s enthusiasm for both basketball and football teams at UK. None of my siblings graduated from UK, but Dad enthused us with the love of the sport.

by kykat51 on Mar 6, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Florida game Saturday

I am a loyal fan and long time fanatical supporter of UK. Most of you have seen me post here for the last year. My birthday is Saturday and my friends have put together a great day and night of events so it should be fun. I have come to the conclusion that I am NOT going to watch the Florida game. I am sick to my stomach that UK is in the position they are in and the loss last night was totally unacceptable. If UK can’t beat a UGA team on Senior Night, a team that had not won a road game all season, a team with an interim coach and the worst team in the SEC then I see no way they can go into Florida and beat them. Others will point to past scenarios to try to prove me wrong but I say save it.

This UK team is no fun to watch and the coach is unlikable IMO. I am going to save myself more grief and skip the game so that I can enjoy my birthday without worrying about who starts, what bad substitution coach will make and how UK will screw the game at the end. Sorry I have just had enough. I will get back to watching them come November 2009.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Mar 5, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fair Weather Fan

Missing a game is one thing (especially on you birthday) but you shouldn’t turn your back on them because they’re loosing. Watching the ‘down years’ is an investment that will pay sweetly when they return to greatness.

by from_left_to_right_on_your_radio_dial on Mar 5, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugggh... I just dread the day we turn into Red Sox fans of the 1900's...

“Just wait till next year!”

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Go and have fun

I wouldn’t miss BDAY fun for this group either.

by daniel81 on Mar 5, 2009 3:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If we can't agree the Billy is a bad coach

What about Him being a “jerk” He can’t answer a question without popping off. He’s made more problems for himself by his on mouth.

There is nothing wrong that a string of W's wouldn't fix!

by oldcat70 on Mar 5, 2009 3:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yes...To say he needs work in 'public and tv speaking' ...

…appears an understatement……and in such an important aspect of the job, this is hurting him right now as well, unfortunately

by teambeam on Mar 5, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe I am

removed from all the fuss but he isn’t as bad as Pitino was. There are much much much jerkier coaches out there then BG.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Discussed before earlier this week...

But you could have Pitino read verbatim a Gillispie post-game transcript and it wouldn’t sound remotely the same.

Its all in delivery. Gillispie isn’t a smooth talker… and that was part of his appeal.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Capitulation And Desperation

To the title topics in a moment but first a few other thoughts:

I visit other UK sites: KSR, WCN, CP, TCD on a regular basis but don’t spend a lot of time, reserving that for ASoB and mostly due to Tru’s writing skills but also to the civil and mature response from posters. Even at this trying, anguished time my anticipation is not thwarted.

Two reactions to Tru’s air crash metaphor: one, with a couple thousand hours of crew airtime I can relate and two, and perhaps more relative, another prime field of consideration by investigators of an “auguring in” is maintenance records. I would aver that in determining the cause of the Cat crash one should not overlook the past care of the aircraft. Was maintenance performed on a regular basis? Were the prescribed parts used for replacement? Were corners cut in recommended procedures? Were outmoded systems not replaced as environment dictated? It’s entirely possible — in fact, probable — that faulty maintenance put the pilot, crew and aircraft in the position that only a Sullenberger-type performance and much luck could have prevented it. NTSB (in this case the AD) should be thorough in their investigation.

Now to the title:

Capitulation is surrendering under terms. I have capitulated to the stock market to the point that I’m basically on the sidelines unwilling to compete in an arena in which I have neither the expertise or resources. Sadly I have capitulated on UK 2008-9 basketball perhaps for the first time in 58 years as a fan, surrendered hope on the terms that it is futile and foolish to devote enthusiasm and pride to participants who currently don’t have those attributes. But, more to the point, this edition of Cats has itself capitulated, surrendered to lesser opponents, to who knows what distractions and petty grievances, to lack of purpose, to an acceptance of defeat.

As to Coach Gillispie, I doubt there is any UK fan who wanted him more than I. As stated previously I organized a group of alums, fraternity brothers, fans and family members to campaign to Barnhart for Gillispie’s hire, even before Smith’s departure. As such a proponent I’m possibly more disappointed than most. I’ve also posted that I thought Gillispie, no matter how much he perceived otherwise, probably didn’t understand the magnitude of UK BB and the challenge it presented — in over his head, if you will — but I chose to believe that, considering his passion for the game, his small-town background, his record of rebuilding, he could and would confront and overcome the summons to lead. Alas, that doesn’t appear to be the case. And the result is the same one that inflicts most of those who are submerged in doubt: desperation.

Removing 4 starters at a crucial point in last night’s game is the latest in a growing list of desperate actions it seems to me and we only see such actions when they are on public display. I would imagine that there are more such grasping at straws in times and places less open — on the practice court, in the locker room and in private consultation with staff and/ or individual players, for example — and make no mistake those signs of desperation are quite recognizable and are slayers of leadership.

So where does that leave us? Not in a good position I can assure you. Barring providential intervention — if one believes in such a thing — or some other group dynamic miracle this season is lost. And next season, with or without Patterson/Meeks is problematic. My goal is to put this season behind me and remain hopeful for UK BB and Coach Gillispie. For as that famous philosopher Jim Carrey said:

People need motivation to do anything. I don’t think human beings learn anything without desperation.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 3:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gillispie Was Not A Good Choice

UK needed a more experienced, more accomplished coach to replace Tubby.

I’m sorry you were part of that group. Why not choose or support someone like Barnes, Calipari, etc?

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cal

said he wasn’t interested and why should he be. He had inked Rose and had NC team even though they didn’t win it all. You DO NOT WANT CAL! You think BG is a jerky? Cal makes him look like some kid from Little House on the Prarie. Barnes still has not brought Texas a NC. He has underperformed with great talent. I say bring on coach K :)!

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and

of course I am kidding! We should not bring on anyone. Let us let Billy right the ship. He deserves the chance.

by tenken on Mar 5, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some LIKE Them

Yes, I want a UK caliber coach. A proven winner. Proven NCAA winner. Conference titles. Etc.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who?

Why would anyone leave a program for UK after accomplishing those things? I would never leave if I were Barnes, K, Williams, Self, Few, Donovan, to name a couple. They are in better situations or are under half the scrutiny our head man would be. Who would your savior be that would actually show up?

by ukcat2169 on Mar 5, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not My Job

UK had trouble hiring a coach in 1985 and 1989 too.

UCLA had trouble hiring coaches over the years.

So did UNC until Williams came back.

I have no particular coach in mind. Just one with more than 6 years of UTEP or TAMU level experience.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree...

I don’t know the answer either. Seems like it would almost have to be someone coming from BG’s type of background. The up-and-comer who strives to get to the elite level. Tough call, not that it matters right now though.

by ukcat2169 on Mar 5, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look At Successful Past Hires

Hall had 7 years of OJT (coaching and recruiting) at UK. Ceratinly ready to step in.

Sutton had plenty of experience but UK overlooked his drinking problems. Not successful as a result.

Pitino had FF experience and NBA playoff experience. Up & comer, not really. More like Been There, Done That already.

Tubby had SEC coaching experience, multiple Sweet 16 experience, and UK experience. Good choice by his results. Some feel otherwise.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Calipari ...

… is too shady. Barnes, well, he’s fine, I guess. But I don’t think he wanted the job.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

With all due respect...

I get tired of of hearing about Calipari being shady. He has never been in trouble with the NCAA. UMass’ problems were attributed to Alumni/Boosters and he even got an apology from the NCAA. I think in this case perception is not reality.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Mar 5, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it is reality.

I also know that he is a real jerk in Memphis, I’ve read several articles to that effect. I also believe he is shady. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve seen as much to defend that position as to refute it.

That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A good buddy of mine works for a

commerical real estate outfit in Memphis, and the company is big Memphis basketball supporters (like, with money, have season box, etc.). They say Calipari is shady, and not very nice.

They like having him as coach though.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Gillispie was a bad choice.

I may think that in about 12 months, but for now, I am chalking up this year as “one of those things.”’ I’m as unhappy as anyone, but to me, this was going to be a challenging year for lots of reasons. At one point, I actually thought we had somehow overcome the challenges that I saw on paper, but it’s clear that they came back with a vengeance.

The biggest problem with this team, in my opinion, is lack of leadership on the floor. Leaderless teams almost always struggle.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Do Think He Was A Poor Choice For UK

Kentucky is Top Shelf basketball. Neither TAMU or UTEP is anywhere close to that.

UK should have hired a higher level, more experienced, more accomplished coach.

For whatever reason, Barnhart did not do that. It took a while to hire Pitino in 1989.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Gillispie was fine.

He wasn’t experienced enough for me, either, and I opined when he was hired that he was untested in this type of environment. But I still think he has the tools, if not enough proven experience.

He may yet thrive. But he’s not thriving now.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A "poor choice" infers you think there was a better choice.

Please let us know the better choice. We cannot accept blanket statements from you without quantification any more than you accept blanket statement concerning Tubby without quantification.

At the time BCG was considered a great hire and in hindsight I don’t know of anyone we “missed” in that timeframe that would come close to the ideal coach your specify; although “higher level, more experienced, more accomplished” is somewhat nebulous.

Like Wild Weasel, I was also fanatically campaigning to land BCG at Kentucky (after Tubby had announced his departure) and was elated to get him. Due to contacts in Texas I had followed him closely there and I’m still behind him but also absolutely stumped on why we imploded. I guess time will tell; but we want answers now.

by hoboat33 on Mar 6, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Top Shelf Basketball

Smith – Georgia
Pitino – Providence

Yep – they came from top shelf teams as well.

I believe in Billy G.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Mar 9, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Regrets

In fact I take great pride and pleasure in my actions and accomplishments and would/will do it again if I determine it’s necessary.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You Should Regret What You Did

Nothing to be proud of. Made UK the laughingstock of the national media. And wound up hiring a coach who may well be Over His Head at Kentucky.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

UK isn’t the laughingstock of anything. And if we are, we have only ourselves to blame for our actions.

What WW did was fine. He believed in Gillispie, and I think that was reasonable. If he is over his head, it won’t be the first time that a major power has made that error.

Gillispie may yet work out fine. Let’s not bury him while he’s still breathing.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me?

How dare you tell someone that they shouldn’t be proud of the coach they support? For goodness sake. I think it actually took some serious balls on Wild Weasel’s part to admit what he did and be so open and honest about his support for the hire of Coach Gillipsie when that is not something that is real popular at the moment. Seriously, if anyone should understand what people go through when they are in the minority in supporting a coach, well, quite frankly, I would think it would be you.

by BigSkyCat on Mar 5, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Read What I Wrote

No one should be proud of any effort to replace a successful UK coach in mid 2006.

Tubby is an easy coach to support. His accomplishments are quite good. The unbiased observer can see that pretty easily.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just

re-read WW’s intial comment, and I see now what I missed the first time in regard to the timing of the push for BCG.

Sorry for trying to take your head off, friends? : )

by BigSkyCat on Mar 5, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not A Problem

WW was apparently part of that Prof Cheeks, Katman2000, et al effort to force UK to remove a coach who had been successful at the job. (2006 and 07, not so much – those WERE down years for UK)

That effort first took place in 2001 (with a different group of boosters and Larry Ivy as AD).

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait just a minute.

I don’t really see where he said that in his comment, anywhere. He said he pushed for Gillispie before Smith left. He didn’t say how long before, at least I didn’t read it there.

Look, you can’t keep blaming the people who didn’t like Smith. He was a great guy, and a good coach and still is, but UK was definitely going the wrong way when he left. Smith had two very poor seasons back to back, and now you are talking about Gillispie being over his head? A little perspective, please.

Cheeks, Katman2000 and that ilk were reprehensible in their actions. They made UK a media laughing stock, but I fail to see how WW participated in that, at least insofar as he’s said. He said that he organized some people to lobby Barnhart to bring Gillispie here before Smith left. He didn’t say he participated in the Cheeks/Katman crap.

If he fesses up to that, then I’ll retract my criticism, but it looks to me like based on the available information, you are applying a double standard.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That Effort Occurred In 2006

I doubt there were 2 separate efforts.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you now?

Let me say that you have no right to that presumption.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just assumed there were a LOT of separate efforts

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah,

I guess that’s what I assume too.

I’m not saying that I approve of Wild Weasel’s admittance of a push for Coach Gillispie while we still had a coach in that seat, (just like I don’t approve of the suggestions for Coach Gillispie’s replacement now) — but I’m not ready to convict him of being a member of one of the groups that Forty has mentioned above, either. That hardly seems fair

by BigSkyCat on Mar 5, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't start following the Cats online until after Smith left

I’m curious to discover who these reprehensible excuses for human excrement might be.

Is there a good link that would give me a summation of this? Drama is always enjoyable to read!

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Mar 5, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Premise

Forty, your original premise that Smith was a successful coach is where we fail to agree. I have made my argument in many places, in many media and to as many people as I could, but don’t intend to do it again since my purpose was served. With disagreement on the core principal there is no room for further discussion.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really wanted Barnes.

I’m not saying I didn’t support the Gillispie decision – I did and still do, for now.

When I heard Tubby was leaving, though, and Barnes’ name was tossed around, I got very happy.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Mar 5, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

About removing the starters

It wasn’t the only stretch that lost the game for us but maybe the most important.

On BG’s Behalf:
a) It seemed only Meeks, Patterson and Harris were a planned benching. Perry sat after he took that hard fall.
b) They did go on a nice run once the fresh starters returned.
c) Our subs should not get run out of the gym by a last place team.

However, I was apoplectic that UGA’s run kept going on and on and on without a timeout.

by from_left_to_right_on_your_radio_dial on Mar 5, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Disagree

Once a successful coach decided to leave, fine. Help the search for a new coach.

But their effort began back in middle of 2006 season. Ceratinly an embarrassment to UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 5, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Incorrect

My personal effort — cannot speak for others — began in early 2004 shortly after loss to UAB in second round of NCAA.

by Wild Weasel on Mar 5, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Billy G is a top notch coach!

by oldkentucky on Mar 5, 2009 6:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks oldkentucky

Tink will love you as well.

by kykat51 on Mar 5, 2009 7:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Time to tell the King he's neked

I’m not sure if this is a forum for Kentucky basketball or an Opra blog. Believe me when I say I don’t need nor want any group hugs. Nor do I think anyone needs to make up or invent any excuses for Ky great Mike Casey. When he gave his opinion, you can be sure it wasn’t given lightly. If Adolph Rupp was not in his grave, this last yr would surely put him there.
All the records and respect he earned for the the great state of Kentucky and its die hard fans, is slowly going up in smoke. The loss to Ga on senior night and its implications for UK was barely noticed outside the state. My guess is that not too many were really surprised.
To the Kernal, coach says we were’t playing physical enough, there’s no maturity, this team doesn’t know how to accept a challange. He goes on to say he couldn’t find 3 or 4, much less 5 guys that play together. Again it the players fault. After assigning the blame he says he had some fault also. YA THINK. He has two of the hardest working, talented,
players in the country. Any decent coach can put up W’s, just by consistently calling their number. This has been the story all yr. A real coach shows his worth when he doesn’t have the talent, but gets the best out of what he has to work with. HE COACHES.
Sadly, a costly mistake was made that need to be addressed. Gillispie needs to be the big fish in the little pond, he’s proven he can succeed in that environment. The insecurities, too many to mention, that we never knew about when bringing him aboard, have been in plain view for all to see this yr. Patterson and Meeks commited because they wanted to play for the University of Kentucky, not coach Gillispie. If Barnhart and Todd come to their senses and make a change, there may be a chance they would both stay. If not, they’re both gone and only in our history books.

by KyBlueblood on Mar 5, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This better ...

… be the last time you disrespect my community, or I guarantee I will disrespect you — permanently.

Your point may be valid, but your manners are utterly absent. Bring them next time, or go away.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 5, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so

tempting to respond to his/her post……..but using self control.

by tenken on Mar 6, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Best ...

… to leave the nasty stuff to me. :-)

I won’t let this place turn into TCP. I’m not running TCP down, they are a fine place if you like rough and tumble. I just prefer a more polite atmosphere, and I’m here to make sure we get it.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2009 8:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oprah Blog?

WTF?

No one is calling Obama the messiah in here…..

by btcoop71 on Mar 6, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

even better

it’s the “Opra” blog. WTF is right.

Although…I actually DO think Obama is the messiah. JK! Please don’t ban me, Tru.

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Almost missed the "JK" and blew a gasket.

I don’t think this blog could handle THAT discussion. Need a much bigger server. lol

by hoboat33 on Mar 6, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yes... jkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjk : )

I think we have plenty enough to talk about as it is

by blue kentucky girl on Mar 6, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen.

More than enough, it seems. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is great...

I agree with the person who said there is a lack of chemistry between the players. I don’t sense love between them.

Fuzzy feelings aside we do not have a penetrate and dish guy like many of the SEC teams do. Galloway is the closest and I thought he might be the answer but he looked crappy against Georgia. Look at the better KY teams and they all had exceptional penetrators. None of them could shoot and it didnt matter: Rondo, Turner, Dicky Beal, Sean Woods, Dirk Minniefield you name it even Hawkins could get into the paint and cause turmoil (Ford was the exception as he was a better shooter than penetrator). Remember what Wayne Turner did to Duke and Elton Brand in the second half of the regional finals in ’98? Recruit a true lightening quick point guard and we can all stop this self-flagellating and win another Championship.

On Billy G I’d like to see him be MORE of a jerk at least on the sidelines. His complacency does not communicate a sense of urgency

by chrisgettlefinger on Mar 6, 2009 5:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah ...

… I wish he would be more demonstrative.

Seeing a man get called for a technical foul while in a crouch just offends my sense of proportion.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 6, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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