The 10 Best UK Squads to not win a National Championship/Open Thread
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 9:13 PM EDT
in Open Thread
66 comments
I was not planning on posting this evening, but our fearless leader is on a 24 hour road trip, so I thought an Open Thread (with a twist) was called for.
Something that me and my UK friends discuss from time to time are the best teams in Kentucky history that didn't win a National Championship. It makes for some lively and fun debate, so I thought, considering UK isn't going to win the NCAA National Title this year, what better way to jump start an Open Thread.
Actually, discuss what you want, but I'll start off with my list of the best UK teams to not achieve the ultimate in college basketball success (not including the 1946 NIT Champions).
1. 1954 -- 25-0, 14-0 in the SEC. This team was led in scoring by All-America's Cliff Hagan (24.0 ppg), and Frank Ramsey (19.6).
UK and LSU tied for the league title after not meeting in the regular season due to a conflict between the two schools about where to play the game. They did meet in a "playoff game" at the end of the regular season, with UK winning 63-56 (the game was played in Nashville). The NCAA then declared UK seniors Cliff Hagan, Frank Ramsey, and Lou Tsioropoulos ineligible for the NCAA Tournament, because they were graduate students (very bo-guuuus!). Adolph Rupp denied the ensuing bid to play in the Tournament, minus his three star players.
2. 1970 -- 26-2, 17-1 in the SEC. They were led in scoring by UK's all-time leading scorer Dan Issel (33.9), Mike Pratt (19.3), and Tom Parker (10.4). They won the SEC Championship.
This UK team lost to an Artis Gilmore-led Jacksonville team,106-100, in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
3. 1997 -- 35-5, 13-3 in the SEC. These 'Cats were led by All-America Ron Mercer (18.1). Derek Anderson, who played in only the first 19 games of the season, averaged 17.7, followed by Scott Padgett (9.6). Kentucky was the SEC Regular season champion, as well at the SEC Tournament Champion.
UK lost to Arizona in the National Championship game, in overtime, 84-79.
4. 1966 -- 27-2, 15-1 in the SEC. Rupp's Runts were led in scoring by All-America's Pat Riley (21.9), and Louie Dampier (21.1). Thad Jaracz (13.2) and Larry Conley (11.5) were also major contributors to this team's success. The Runts won the SEC Championship.
UK lost to Texas Western in the National Championship game 72-65.
5. 1947 -- 34-3, 11-0 in the SEC. This group was led by future Fabulous Five members and All-Americas Ralph Beard (10.9), and Lou Groza (10.6). They won the SEC regular season title and the SEC Tournament Championship.
These 'Cats lost to Utah 49-45 in the NIT Championship game.
6. 1975 -- 26-5, 15-3 in the SEC. UK was led by All-America Kevin Grevey (23.6), Jimmy Dan Connor (12.4), and freshman Rick Robey (10.4). They were co-champions of the SEC.
Kentucky lost to UCLA in John Wooden's final game, 92-85.
7. 1986 -- 32-4, 17-1 in the SEC. These 'Cats were led by All-America Kenny "Sky" Walker (20.0), Winston Bennett (12.7), and Ed Davender (11.5). They were the SEC regular season and Tournament champions.
UK lost to LSU in the Elite 8 (59-57), after beating the Tigers three times during the season.
8. 1984 -- 29-5, 14-4 in the SEC. UK was led by All-America's Melvin Turpin (15.2), and Sam Bowie (10.5), as well as future All-America , sophomore Kenny Walker (12.4). The 'Cats won both the SEC regular season and Tournament championships.
UK lost to Georgetown in the Final Four, 53-40, after shooting a negative percentage in the second half ... I kid, of course.
9. 2003 -- 32-4, 16-0 in the SEC. The 'Cats were led by All-America Keith Bogans (15.7), Gerald Fitch (12.3), and Marquis Estill (11.6). They won the SEC regular season and Tournament championships.
This team lost to Marquette in the Elite 8, 83-69, after Bogans suffered a high ankle sprain only two days prior.
10a. 1962 -- 23-3, 13-1 in the SEC. Kentucky was led by All-America Cotton Nash (23.4), Larry Pursiful (19.1), Carroll Burchett (11.2), and Scotty Baesler (10.9). They were co-champions of the SEC.
This group lost to Ohio State in the second round of the NCAA Tournament, 74-64.
So there you have it, my 10 best UK teams to not win the National Title.
Discuss, or treat as an Open Thread.
For those concerned: Mike Casey underwent surgery today. He did very well according to his daughter, Laura.
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Where's 1993?
I think they fit somewhere in that Top 10 list.
Amazingly the 1962 Cats got NCAA bid when Miss St (co-champs) declined it. I think Miss St had the tie breaker with W over UK, not sure about that. Mississippi state law prohibited them from playing against teams with black players (such as would happen in NCAA).
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1993 -- They were in the running ... remember, this is just my opinion, and was put together in about half-an-hour.
I think it was ’59 that UK got the Tourney bid when MSU declined (at least according to the Media Guide).
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually 3 Different Years
1959, 61, and 62. Miss St declined all 3 years (for same reason).
UK also got 1956 bid when undefeated Alabama declined NCAA for same reason UK did in 1954 (grad students ineligible).
Miss St beat UK in 1962 and held the tiebreaker between the co-champs.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, MSU was UK's only loss in the SEC in '62.
The Media Guide makes a notation about the MSU situation following the ‘59 and ’61 seasons. But that doesn’t mean that the same thing didn’t happen in ’62.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1993
UK had rolled in the tourney up to the Michigan game:
Rider—96-52
Utah—83-62
Wake—103-69 “you can’t see the forest for the 3’s” Greg Gumble
FL. ST—106-81 “Sura who?”
I remember the late Al McGuire saying at the end of the FL. ST. game, “four games, four no contest”
That would have to be one of my top 5, but you have a great list… Good job Ken…!
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1992
Wasn’t it the 92 squad. (unforgettables?) that lost to duke in the regionals (greatest game ever played?) I think Mashburn was freshman or soph then and Pitino had just done an awesome coaching job … that has to be one of my biggest heart breaks ever .. couldn’t talk with anyone for a while after that game. That squad seemed to have more heart and desire than any since.
by ukcris on Mar 24, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes that's right. Mash was a soph. and led the team in scoring at 21.3 ppg.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Mashburn Wasn't Named A-a In 1992, I'll Never Understand
He made A-A in 1993 but deserved it in 92 also.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like Kenny Walker...
…should have been POY in ’86…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT In The Spirit Of "Open Thread"
Jon Hood named to Gatorade A-A team this week.
Gatorade names POY in each of 50 states and DC as its “All-American” team.
Someone else (Xavier Henry) got the Okla nod over Orton.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Orton was out...
Most of the year…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's True
But Henry has been rated higher all along.
Gatorade A-A is tough because only 1 per state.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calipari
Really hope for the sake of the program the BCG stays – it will take more than a couple of NIT wins to ease the pain of this season for all … but doing the “what if’s”, since upper management doesn’t want step out and give him a vote of confidence, what if they already have someone waiting in the wings? Who might want to step in to the UK pressure cooker? Think Calipari would want to fill the bill? Talk about a recruiter … Cousins and Henry committed and still in the mix for Wall … a chance to move from CUSA. Just doing the what if’s … how about Travis? or …. who?
by ukcris on Mar 24, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Travis Ford...
…Will NEVER be coach at UK, IMO…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never?
Too strong for me. Williams became head coach at UNC some 30 years after graduating. If Ford becomes HC at UK it will be on a similar timeframe. We’re talking another 10-15 years of success before it could happen.
the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"
by bluesquire on Mar 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough...
…correction, as long as Mitch is AD, it will NEVER happen…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 25, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travis FORD?
Not ready. Not close. Not yet.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, pass on Travis Ford (at least at this point). Best not to let emotion cloud judgement.
by KyDoug on Mar 24, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree withForty and KyDoug
Ford has done a fabulous job at EKU, UMass, and OK. St., but he needs more time. Maybe some day.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adding Another To The "Almost" Top 10 List
1977 Cats.
26-4. Only 3 narrow L during season (2 to Ernie and Bernie Show at Tennessee) and tough L to UNC in NCAA tourney.
And 4 W over Top 5 ranked teams during the regular season.
Add Macy for Larry Johnson and 1978 = champions.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Larry Johnson...
…Was one of the reasons I started rooting for the CATS at a young age… The game against Providence, when Johnson went coast to coast in 0:07 to beat them with a layup was awesome…!
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SEC NIT SCORES
Penn State 33-Florida 32 Neck and Neck at Half
Auburn out. Had 2 different chances to win. Auburn missed 2 free throws. Down 2, had last shot and time to drive for contact/shot but pulled up for a 3 and missed.
by blue oregon on Mar 24, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I personally don't want to face off with Florida
Hope Penn State wins but they look tough and could be a real challenge for KY if it turns out we play them.
Also, wonderful news about Mike Casey. Prayers for his continued improvement and strength for his family.
by StillCatwoman on Mar 24, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PSU Up 7 Midway Thru 2nd Half
Probably the best coaching job in B10 was done by Penn St’s coach.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a soft spot for the 1962 team
That’s my earliest memory of watching UK play and was really impressed by Cotton Nash’s ability.
by KyDoug on Mar 24, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rupp benched Cotton Nash once, according to my dad...
for throwing a behind the back pass.
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
by SD_UK_FAN on Mar 24, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NIT SEC SCORES
CATS last SEC team standing!! Go Big Blue!!!
If the Cats come to play on Wednesday against the Irish and we win, Penn State will be tough match up, both in the interior (Cornley #2) and on the 3 point line with several players (especially Prinkle #11) for the Lions.
CATS verses the LIONS
by blue oregon on Mar 24, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Florida is out of the NIT...
…Let the Donovan to Kentucky rumors begin..!
PS: I hope he stays in Florida, not a big Billy D fan for sure… lol
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Donovan
He’s a great recruiter at UF, and would probably be an unreal recruiter at UK, but I have a real problem with coaches who’s teams don’t play D. And excepting his two Nat’l Title teams, his teams play lousy, lazy defense.
He caught lightening in a bottle …
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 24, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BILLY D
Didn’t he already say no to UK 2 years ago? Why would he change his mind now?
by blue oregon on Mar 24, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
several reasons:
kids are a few years older, realizes he might never get the same recruits like 06 and 07 at UF, chance to win another NC at a different school, and benjamins – plenty of them…..
Not saying i want him, but IF uk were to let BCG go after this season, mitch had better bring in a BIG gun for the next coach. if he is going to try to find the next cal or pitino or izzo or whoever, might as well give bcg another couple of years
by memphis wildcat on Mar 24, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good question
Pat Forde seems to think that Donovan now knows how difficult it is to sustain success. I think he’s right. He theorizes that Donovan may be interested in UK because the probability of long-term success is better.
This isn’t necessarily how I feel, but I have a great deal of respect for Forde, so I thought I would share his thoughts with you.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ken
I live out of state. I enjoy your blogs and respect your informed writings. Is Pat Forde a person is close to the UK inner circle?
by blue oregon on Mar 25, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He used to work for the Courier-Journal.
He now is a senior writer for ESPN.com. He lives in Louisville and has great contacts.
But, he was just “supposing.” He didn’t say that he had been told this information, he was only forecasting what COULD happen if G is fired or leaves of his own accord.
He’s been my favorite sports writer for some time now. He’s very clever and entertaining, and I think he knows what he’s talking about.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eckkkk
Don’t start that rumor we don’t need Eddie Munster here!
UL Football Fan/UK Basketball Fan ~ Shreveport Louisiana
by The White Mandingo on Mar 25, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the 93 team...they were my "first"
…the first team that I followed religiously, the one that got me really hooked on Kentucky Basketball—I was about 14 then—so I really have a soft spot for them. This fondness may color my rememberance of how dominant they really were, but WOW, they were really rolling through the tourney, blowing out everyone, peaking at the exact right time, til that damn Michigan game. Grrr, the Michigan game, how I hated that “Fab 5” team. What evil glee I felt when Webber’s boneheaded phantom timeout lost the championship game for them…I still chuckle when I see that replay (though of course freaking Carolina getting the title irked too).
93 and 2003 are the nonchampion teams that I remember most fondly, and are the ones I feel most wistfully “what could have been…” about. All the other teams discussed, with the exception of 97, were before my time.
2004 was a very good team too, and that UAB loss was a killer, but I don’t think they were quite as good as 2003. I don’t think 2005 was a very great team, really, but as far as heartbreakers go, their loss to Michigan State ranks right up there for me. I really, really wanted a Final Four for Chuck Hayes and another one for Tubby too, to quiet the malcontents. So so close, but no cigar. It’s interesting to think how differently everything might have played out if they’d gotten the FF that year, since the main source of fans’ discontent with Tubby was that lack of another FF. But that’s a Tubby discussion and I won’t go “there” any further : )
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 24, 2009 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brief Reply
I don’t think it (FF in 2003 or 2005) would have mattered. The discontent was much deeper than that.
He’s in a better spot. UK isn’t for everyone.
Hayes sure deserved FF though. 109-25 at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 24, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I’m surprised you don’t think an FF in 03 or 05 would have mattered that much. I think there was a small core of people that just weren’t going to be happy with Tubby no matter what he did, because he wasn’t Pitino, and maybe for another, uglier reason too that I’m sure you can guess (I’m talking about a really, really small portion, by the way). But for most all of the RATIONAL fans I know that disapproved of him, they pretty much to a person pointed at lack of recent FF as the reason. Who knows, though. Quite possibly if he’d gotten that, then it would have been something else.
So sorry for the thread hijack! A former-coach-that-should-remain-nameless thread hijack too. I’ll shut up now : )
by blue kentucky girl on Mar 25, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really
I don’t think it would have mattered much.
He missed 2 FF because of Bogans’ injury and referee’s swallowed whistle (2 OT loss).
Joe Hall MADE 2 FF because of Scott May’s injury and referee’s swallowed whistle (narrow W over Illinois in Rupp Arena).
UK was just not the place for him (T) for a variety of factors.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UAB
I was stunned, stunned I say, when UK lost to the Blazers.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Karl Hess Was Reffing That Game
Not stunning to me.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Pratt et al hate that guy.
I had no idea … now it all makes sense.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 25, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw 3
February 1954 versus Vandy, last home game before my 16th birthday, first time I ever saw Cats in person, it was a birthday gift from my uncle. 1975 versus UCLA in San Diego, went with my best friend — a UNC and UCLA law school graduate — and best man, now deceased. 1984 in Seattle versus Georgetown, my sons, 12 & 9, first Final Four, they were more disappointed than I if possible.
I agree on Donovan by the way.
by Wild Weasel on Mar 24, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
8. 1984 — 29-5, 14-4 in the SEC. UK was led by All-America’s Melvin Turpin (15.2), and Sam Bowie (10.5), as well as future All-America , sophomore Kenny Walker (12.4). The ’Cats won both the SEC regular season and Tournament championships.
UK lost to Georgetown in the Final Four, 53-40, after shooting a negative percentage in the second half … I kid, of course.
Aggghh! I watched that game in the wee hours in a supply tent in Wildflechen, West Germany with snow and mud and cold and a bunch of damned Georgetown fans. Did you have to bring it up?
We're all just a banana peel away from eternity.
by SD_UK_FAN on Mar 24, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just...
saw the 41-17 lead we have over ND. Can someone tell me the last time that we played them. I can’t remember. I know they are just one state over but, for us to have played an OOC foe almost 60 times amazes me, besides, of course, UL or IU. Another one. What OOC team have we played the most games against?
by the spork on Mar 25, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2004 (I Think)
UK swept ND 4 in a row in early 2000’s.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
we last played the Irish in 2004.
by oldcat70 on Mar 25, 2009 2:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Transfers...
I’ve been discussing this with my dad as of late and we are both completely clueless, so I was hoping some of the BBN could shed some light…
We currently have 4 guys coming in next year on scholarship, yet only 1 scholarship senior leaving. Did we have open scholarships to give from last year? If so, then no big deal. If not, are we already expecting some transfers, and who are they? My first thoughts were to Harrellson and Stewart, but maybe there is something I am missing.
Oh, and for my .02, I think it would be absolutely dumb to fire BCG. For all the reasons prior, we need to learn patience as a fan base.
by JRod1229 on Mar 25, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess
D. Williams is gone. His was a one-year schollie offer, and probably most casual fans don’t even know he’s on the team because he hasn’t played all year. Stewart transfers; seems like he’s had a lot of off-court issues this year. Porter goes off scholarship; he has already graduated, is married, and is expecting his first child. If that happens, I really hope they have him participate in the senior day festivities. We all know he has some physical limitations, but he’s given it everything he’s got for three years and is a class act.
by Acdixon on Mar 25, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always wondered
Why Rick Pitino never played Derek Anderson in the ’97 NCAA tournament run? I believe he did come out and shoot free throws and had been practing with the team. Aghhhh what could have been.
UL Football Fan/UK Basketball Fan ~ Shreveport Louisiana
by The White Mandingo on Mar 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I recall that at the time Pitino said he was protecting Anderson's pro career
I’m still irritated that Anderson didn’t play in the OT period – he would have destroyed Arizona.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
by JLeverenz on Mar 25, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Asked Derek That ? At The 1999 WNBA All-Star Game
He was there to support a friend who was one of the All-Stars.
Based on his response, I don’t think it was 100% certain he was ready or able to play. It certainly risked future injury and possible impact on his NBA career. Pitino didn’t want to do that but he DID want the other team to think he might.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bigger question is
Why were you at a WNBA all-star game? Was the paint drying championship sold out?
by btcoop71 on Mar 25, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Stepdaughter Played In It
She was leading scorer and rebounder that year but Lisa Leslie got MVP.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't (I'm Used To It)
League Showcases All-Stars . . .
On July 14, 1999, the league held the Inaugural WNBA All-Star Game at Madison Square Garden in New York, televised live on ESPN. The capacity crowd of 18,649 witnessed the incredible sportsmanship, teamwork, enthusiasm, fan involvement and in-arena excitement that characterizes the WNBA. The Western Conference All-Stars – led by the game’s Most Valuable Player and Los Angeles Sparks center Lisa Leslie – defeated the Eastern Conference 79-61.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's Retired And Mother Of 3.5 Now (To Be 4 This Summer)
http://www.wnba.com/playerfile/natalie_williams/index.html
My favorite story from the 1999 All-Star game:
A tall African-American man came up to her in the hotel lobby and congratulated her on her play and so forth.
As he walked away, she turned to us and said Who’s That Guy?
It was Doctor J (Julius Erving).
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 25, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man,
you know how to make a guy feel old……great story though.
For my son #4 is the number of his favorite guard to ever play at UK – I agree, but he is thinking Rondo and i am thinking Macy – who dad?
by memphis wildcat on Mar 25, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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