UK Basketball: Accepting the Silence ... it will all be over soon
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
in Commentary
109 comments
We are a microwave society. I don't think anyone will dispute that notion, but within the sub-culture that is the Big Blue Nation, we are a "supersonic" microwave society ... we want answers, and we want them yesterday.
Well, it wasn't yesterday, it was at the SEC Tournament in Tampa two weeks ago:
"We are not going to do any kind of evaluation of the basketball program until after the season is over. I'll leave that up to Mitch (Barnhart) to do the evaluation, sitting down with the coach, and then they'll come to me and we'll talk about anything they want to talk about."
So says UK President Lee Todd, in a quote that should answer the questions coming from cyberspace, as well as the print media, on why UK Athletic Director Mitch Barnhart hasn't issued a statement amidst the firestorm of uncertainty surrounding the Kentucky basketball program.
If that's not clear enough for us in the Big Blue Nation, Mitch Barnhart said this when asked to expound upon his statement regarding employees of the Athletic Department's need to exercise some "self-examination," "self-awareness," as well as a need to make "adjustments:"
"That's a conversation for me and Billy at the end of he season."
So, taking Todd and Barnhart at their word, one has to assume that such a meeting will take place, and out of said meeting a decision will be reached on the future of Gillispie, and the UK basketball program.
Not before the season ends ... not today ... not yesterday ... not UNTIL THE SEASON ENDS.
This is why I don't understand all the clamoring among the Wildcat faithful for a statement from Barnhart. Folks, he's made his statement, there is no need for another one. Regardless of how much we want to hear a clarification or expansion on what was said a couple of weeks ago, I doubt one is forthcoming. Todd and Barnhart have said what needs to be said, to this point.
Gillispie's Response
Regardless of how some UK fans feel about this whole "when the seasons over we'll evaluate" stance of the Athletic Administration, Billy Gillispie certainly seems sold on Todd and Barnhart keeping their word, because he's in major spin control mode:
"We're not far from being a great team. I wouldn't doubt that it'll happen in this tournament (the NIT)."
"They have a chance to be great. They've worked as hard as any group in America on a daily basis. We didn't always compete every single possession like we needed to, but a lot of that happens with experience."
"These guys are very inexperienced ... very young. That's the only reason we didn't make it into the NCAA Tournament."
"We're not far from being a great team ... They have a chance to be great ... These guys are very inexperienced ..."
Gillispie, in all of those quotes, is pointing to the future.
He's saying that given time, this team, along with the '09 newcomers, will be much better than the current crop of 'Cats. But, will these, and other statements coming from Gillispie, plant a positive seed with Barnhart concerning the direction of the program? Who knows, but it's seemingly clear that Gillispie wants to coach at Kentucky, and he's attempting to justify the team's shortcomings, and the season's multiple disappointments, with a not-so-veiled "youth-excuse" characterization of the '08-'09 squad.
Does Winning Truly Cure All Ills?
More to the point: Will winning the NIT, or at least getting to Madison Square Garden for the NIT Final Four, be enough to quell the growing rebellion of change among UK supporters?
It's an interesting question, no doubt, and one I don't pretend to know the answer to. But, it will be much harder for Barnhart to justify firing Gillispie if the 'Cats end the season winning six of seven games, or something along those lines.
Or will it?
Some comments, both public and (some) private, have suggested that Barnhart's alleged unhappiness lies not in the win-loss column, but in the image and attitude put forth by UK's head coach:
It's been dissected and discussed ad nauseum: Gillispie's run-ins with ESPN's Jeanine Edwards; Gillispie's sometimes discourteous treatment of "The Voice of the Wildcats" Tom Leach; Gillispie's reluctance to cater to the boosters, thus bruising their fragile egos; Gillispie's dressing-down of all-around good guy Rob Bromley: and Gillispie's sometimes dismissive style when dealing with fans' questions during his weekly call-in show (for some perspective, folks need to replay some of Rick Pitino's barbs pointed towards some of the callers into his show when he led the 'Cats).
Will an NIT run to New York somehow lessen the above offenses? I'm not sure, but some would surmise that it would make Gillispie's sometimes caustic manner much more palatable.
Which of course makes those folks hypocrites.
We either want our head coach to win and lose with class, or we don't. We either want our head coach to treat everyone with respect, or we don't.
Our feelings on Gillispie's attitude shouldn't waver with every win and loss; we shouldn't vacillate based on winning streaks, or losing streaks. Our wants and desires related to the head coach's comportment should be rock solid. Our expectation of the University of Kentucky's head basketball coach should not change one iota from what it was two years ago, prior to Gillispie's arrival.
Trusting Mitch
Mitch Barnhart has proved to be a patient man. Patient to the point of enduring unwarranted criticism for sticking with Rich Brooks when most fans and media members were screaming for the UK football coach to be fired after his third season.
Perhaps patience with Gillispie is also called for. After-all, he's gone from an after-thought at UTEP and Texas A & M, to the most analyzed and critiqued person this side of the President of the United States, at UK. But isn't two years enough time to make the requisite adjustments?
I think, regardless of how UK performs Monday night, and in any subsequent games this season, that Gillispie needs to assure Barnhart in their post-season pow-wow that he's capable of adapting to the culture of UK basketball. Right or wrong, without that assurance, I'm not sure Barnhart will exercise the same patience with Gillispie, as he did with Brooks.
Happy Birthdays
I want to wish a Happy Birthday to my nephew Preston, and my now two-year old daughter Abby.
Thanks for reading, and Go 'Cats!
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Rob Bromley
When did BCG dress down Rob Bromley?
by fanforlife on Mar 22, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
During the taping of his weekly TV show three weeks ago, or so.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This was what I tried to say in Tru’s “Roaring Silence” post. The AD made his statement in Tampa and nothing else can or should be said until after the NIT.
I’d prefer Gillispie stay, but however it plays out I don’t think Mitch has done nearly the pitiful job that Tru seems to hammer him for. All things considered, the only real mistake I think Barnhart has made in his tenure was not fully vetting Gillispie before he hired him. Even the statement of support for Tubby was the right thing to do, even though he may personally regret it.
Methinks I’m in the minority party of Barnhart supporters though, and apparently in the minority of those who think BCG should stay.
by Ontherocks on Mar 22, 2009 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Barnhart has done a pitiful job.
Just an entirely self-serving one.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're going to call a spade a spade
then lets do it for both sides. BCG has put Barnhart in a VERY awkward position. BCG has been self serving in his actions since he got here and said to hell with all that was expected of him. To call out Barnhart for making an honest statement (which was a fair statement) and then following through, is to ignore the self-serving actions that led to all this crap.
So again, according to Tru: Barnhart is self serving by doing what he said he was going to do, and BCG apparently isn’t because you certainly aren’t holding his feet to the fire for what he’s done to cause all this.
I think your position (no matter how strongly you feel it or how long you stick to it) is misguided, just like you think mine is.
by Ontherocks on Mar 22, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, rocks
It’s ridiculous the amount of moaning and groaning from the press that BCG must make a statement. He made several, all to the effect of “it will be evaluated after the season, like every season.” He’s doing the best thing by keeping his mouth shut, especially after people jumped all over him for his “statement of support” for Tubby. He says something, people jump all over him, he says nothing, people jump all over him. It’s ridiculous.
And I also agree, Mitch deserves the benefit of the doubt. Brooks has been our best coach since Bryant, and Mitch took a lot of heat for hiring him early on. And he’s been fabulous for baseball and some of the other non-revenue-generating sports.
We all need to see how the season plays out, see how our boys do, and then let them talk about what they want to talk about at the end of the season. THEN it’s time to clamor for a response. Our team doesn’t need the distraction until then.
by EEWildcat on Mar 22, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
… I think we can agree to disagree on this. Barnhart knew perfectly well what he was getting. Buyer’s remorse, if that is Barhart’s motivation, is unworthy of a person in his position.
I don’t agree that Gillispie has been either self serving or has rejected his responsibilities. I think perhaps that this position is perhaps not what he thought it was, or was totally ready for. But I do believe he is learning as he goes. Barnhart knew that with only five years experience as a D-I head coach that Gillispie was not likely to be fully prepared for the profile of this job, but he apparently had faith that Gillispie could grow into it. I think Gillispie is doing that, just not as fast as Barnhart (or frankly, the rest of us) would like.
I did not call Barnhart dishonest, ever. I called him self-serving and, in my view, lacking leadership. That’s how I see it. I see that you disagree. You are most certainly entitled do do so.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect summation
Barnhart is out for #1 (himself)
by btcoop71 on Mar 22, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ontherocks
I want to be clear: I did not write this as a rebuttal to Tru’s earlier post. I began writing it this morning, before he posted his piece.
What’s really great is that here at ASOB we have three different valid viewpoints on essentially the same subject. You can’t find that anywhere else!
I am also a Barnhart supporter, but that doesn’t mean I think he always makes the right decision, and I also think that G should go, only if he wants to go.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 valid viewpoints is great
but I’m trying to point out the hypocrisy in calling one man’s actions self serving when he wouldn’t be in this spot if not for the actions of BCG’s self serving actions during his tenure. Does anyone think this is the situation that Barnhart wanted after 2 seasons? Please! I don’t think Barnhart is at all fearful of losing his job, because him and Lee Todd seem to be of a like mind on many issues.
Barnhart, in contrast to BCG is a very “self-aware” (which doesn’t in any way mean self serving for those who aren’t sure) person, and seems to subscribe to Socrates view on the unexamined life. If I have to pick a side, I’m going to go with the man that was pragmatic on our fantastic football coach and has taken his lumps on 2 major coaching hires. When Tru tries to throw him under the bus, I’ll take the unpopular position of defending the AD.
Whether BCG should go or stay is a separate argument and not really the one I’m trying to take up.
Its a great article BTW Ken, as was Tru’s. I just happen to agree with yours more :)
by Ontherocks on Mar 22, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, OTR
And I see your point about Barnhart merely “responding” to Gillispie’s actions.
I have to admit that I’m reticent to disagree with Tru on about 99% of what we discuss here, but, I don’t fault Barnhart in this dilemma. Like you, I have great admiration for him and how he handled Brooks, and I really don’t see what he could be doing differently at this juncture.
An argument can be made that if he fires G after the season, then he should have pulled the trigger as soon as he made up his mind, which means he would have to fire him during the season. I’m not one to condone firing a coach during a season, regardless of any potential recruiting losses that action may mitigate.
But I’m taking Barnhart and Todd at their word (as I notate in my piece). Hopefully that confidence is not misplaced.
I also feel that this is an issue that reasonable people can disagree, as is so often the case.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense, but this is just misguided.
Gillispie is exactly, in every respect, what he was at TAMU. He did not ignore his responsibilities here in any detail, he just didn’t change what was working for him before. Unfortunately, what worked for him at TAMU is not working for him here — yet. Is that what you are calling “self serving”? Frankly, it’s hard to tell, since you give no detail in any of your comments.
Barnhart, on the other hand, handled the Smith situation clumsily and wound up with egg on his face. So this time around, when the Indians are on the warpath, Barnhart fails to give Gillispie anything like the same treatment he gave Rich Brooks. Brooks, if you’ll think back, was thought of as a curmudgeonly old fart that was lousy in front of the media and not right for UK during his losing seasons. Now that he is more successful, everyone thinks his dour demeanor is charming, the “Rich Brooks thinks this is bullshit!” thing is just the perfect example. Did Brooks suddenly straighten up and fly right? No. He got to get his recruiting classes in here and succeeded. He’s still the same dour old fart he was when he got here. Funny what success will turn what used to be negatives into mere eccentricities.
But instead of courageously standing by his hire like he did with Brooks, or manning up and sending him packing after failing to make the NCAA’s, Barnhart clams up for Gillispie and lets him twist in the wind, waiting to see if he chokes to death before Barnhart has to address the issue. I mean, seriously — if we were going to fire Gillispie, why wait until after the NIT? Is the NIT suddenly that important to us? Hell, two other SEC schools fired their coaches mid-season — why not Gillispie pre-NIT?
That’s not leadership, it’s bailing out on his responsibility to the man he hired. Gillispie was hired to coach UK, and he was hired on the basis of what he did at the two previous schools. I want you to think back to last year, where his media relations were never an issue. Now, suddenly, you claim that he is self-serving based on … what, exactly? Name the self-serving actions that are at odds with his actions at previous coaching stops. You can’t. That’s because they don’t exist.
Barnhart got what he wanted. It hasn’t worked out as well as he hoped, and now he is hiding from it. That’s what’s going on here, even if you seem unable to see what’s right in front of your face.
As far as hypocrisy is concerned, I would note that I have been very specific about the actions of Barnharts that demonstrate his failures. You, on the other hand, accuse me of hypocrisy without demonstrating a single thing that Gillispie has done that was “self-serving.” So perhaps before you color my a hypocrite (an inappropriate term in the instant case, by the way), you should examine your own argument, or rather, the lack thereof.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
…There’s that word again… “hypocrisy”…
Folks just throw it around… ;-}
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 22, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
It’s one of those things I can’t resist complaining about. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sea
nail hammer head.,……BG is nothing that he wasn’t at TAMU.
I still would like to know how you think Barhardt handled the Tubby situation poorly though.
I don't care who is coach as long as Kentucky is Kentucky!
by tenken on Mar 23, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He gave ambiguous statements ...
… about Smith’s job security well before the end of the season. It caused a media feeding frenzy. I’m surprised you don’t remember.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tru
i have two kids who keep me on my toes constantly and I am lucky to remember my name :). The only thing I remember is Mitch saying he supported Tubby and then Tubby leaves.
I don't care who is coach as long as Kentucky is Kentucky!
by tenken on Mar 23, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually He DIDN'T Say That
His “support” was lukewarm and wishy-washy.
Tubby’s departure was set in motion well before March 2007. His destination may not have been known until then.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tubby
Seemed like every year, there were rumors he was going elsewhere. NBA (Atlanta, Charlotte, etc), SEC (South Carolina), ACC (Virginia) etc.
That is not by accident.
by btcoop71 on Mar 23, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Can Explain The 2001 Rumor
AD Larry Ivy refused to grant an extension of his original 5 year contract (that was due to expire in 2002) and encouraged him to take the South Carolina job.
He had ulterior motive (Pitino waiting in the wings).
None of the NBA rumors had any truth whatsoever.
The 2005 possibility (Virginia) came up because the AD there was a close personal friend of Tubby.
Pitino rumors (going elsewhere) came up annually from 1993 through 1997.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
HE DID! After the Alabama fiasco! I remember it well.
I don't care who is coach as long as Kentucky is Kentucky!
by tenken on Mar 23, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when
you say………Tubby is our coach……..I don’t know how you get any more clear then that.
I don't care who is coach as long as Kentucky is Kentucky!
by tenken on Mar 23, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Not How He Said It
And the media response prompted him to make another comment a day or two later.
Mitch fumbled in 2007 and (I think) in 2009 again.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forty
with all due respect to you……..please stop rebutting what I am saying. There are few things that I remember about that year but I do remember that he did say after the Bama beat down that Tubby is our coach and I stand behind him. I remember thinking “what the heck”, because at that point I felt like Tubby had lost his will to coach at UK. Now after that game if Mitch didn’t say something then whatever. Much like this year………Mitch said that Billy needs time to put his players in. He said that several weeks ago and yall know he may feel that its enough for him to say that at this point. I just don’t see how MB should respond to every rumor and crap that the bloggers/media says. That is not saying anything good to Billy. He shouldn’t have to defend they guy this much. We have had an over 500 season and are playing post season. It may just be that he doesnt’ feel it necesarry. As the article suggest…….the will evaluate things. I say now that I am 99 percent sure that Billy is going to be back.
I don't care who is coach as long as Kentucky is Kentucky!
by tenken on Mar 23, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Have The Quotes In An E-Mail I Sent To Mitch In 2007
I’m glad to post them if you want. Up to you. I save his exact words because they were so poorly expressed.
His “support” was so poorly done he had to do it again a day or so later.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One Here
From the Associated Press
LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) – Kentucky Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart said in an interview Monday with The Associated Press that high school basketball players being recruited by Tubby Smith should have no reason to believe Smith won’t remain as their coach.
Although Barnhart stopped short of saying Smith would remain in charge of the Wildcats, who are a No. 8 seed in the NCAA tournament for the second straight year, he acknowledged fans had misinterpreted a previous statement by him as meaning a head coaching change was near.
“They were reading way too much into that,” Barnhart said of
the statement, which called on fans to wait until the postseason before making any judgments on the state of the program.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two Here
“…That has led to ambiguous statements by both UK athletics director Mitch Barnhart and UK president Lee Todd, as well as considerable calls for his job by frustrated fans…”
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last Here
Barnhart explained Monday he released the statement as an answer to media requests and didn’t intend to suggest Smith’s job was in danger if the Wildcats didn’t finish strong.
"I just globally wanted people to understand, look, we’re paying attention," Barnhart said. "We’ll make the adjustments at the end of the year we need to make and we’ll get on with it. By not saying something, everybody, I think, would have thought we didn’t care or we weren’t paying attention to the things that were going on in our program."
Barnhart said he understands fan criticism, but is disturbed it often gets personal. "What bothers me most is people can be very disrespectful to people as human beings," he said. "I feel bad for coaches when they’re not treated as human beings."
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Gillispie was hired to coach UK, and he was hired on the basis of what he did at the two previous schools. I want you to think back to last year, where his media relations were never an issue.
So, you’ve never taken a job that required you to do more than what you’ve done in your previous jobs? You’ve never taken a new job that required you to grow professionally? You honestly think that there wasn’t discussion over all the “extras” that are required to be UK head coach? You honestly think that Gillispie (or any other ambitious coach) wouldn’t say “Hell yeah, I can do all those things.” just for the shot at being UK coach?
Name the self-serving actions that are at odds with his actions at previous coaching stops. You can’t. That’s because they don’t exist.
I was under the impression here that by and large we all understand Gillispie’s failures to this point and that I didn’t have to spell out that every act of rudeness to people at every level is a self-serving act of hubris. Who cares if his actions are at odds or not with what he did before? That doesn’t excuse or justify anything. Self-serving is still self-serving. I’m at a loss to understand why you excuse it for one man, but not for the other.
Why are you so quick to assess a failure of leadership of our AD when you lack any facts yourself as to what is going on behind the scenes?
by Ontherocks on Mar 23, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK.
So what you’re telling me is that Mitch Barnhart hired Gillispie knowing his shortcomings, and failed to address them at hiring time? Because as I said, last year Gillispie had no issues with the media. Everyone was cheering his COY and gritty end of season play. Suddenly, these couple of dustups with the media are so important that his job is in jeopardy?
Can you not see the vapidity of your own argument here? Mitch Barnhart was the man responsible for bringing Gillispie here, a guy with a known sarcastic and media-unfriendly personality, and now it’s Gillispie’s fault that he is just being himself? I’m sorry, but I find that absurd.
I have presented the facts of this case that are known to us all. The problem is you have no argument to make. You are simply taking the opinion that Barnhart is blameless and Gillispie is blameworthy. I have never, ever said that Gillispie is blameless — I have said that we got what we bargained for, and now we have an AD who has buyer’s remorse because of the scrutiny brought on by a bad season. That is logically consistent and entirely defensible, unlike your claim that Barnhart is some how being noble and classy by allowing the coach he hired twist in the wind and be the subject of obsessive media scrutiny for weeks on end.
I am not any quicker to assess Barnhart’s failures as AD than you are to assess Gillispie’s failures as a coach. Both are as obvious as the sun in the sky. What is curious is your blind defense of Barnhart’s actions, which although they have been overshadowed by the media frenzy surrounding Gillispie, will be examined in the full light of day as soon as Gillispie’s disposition is determined, no matter what it is. But I don’t have to wait until then to see that he is being self-serving and failing to lead. That is obvious.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur deeply with this. Nothing more to say from me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Mar 23, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean Tru's 5/22/09, 11:34PM post.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Mar 23, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru you nailed it!
This post sets the idea straight. I’m not referring to your rebuttal to ol boy so much as what Barnhart is or isn’t doing. He should make some statements to the fanbase. If anyone owes the fanbase anything it is the AD. Plus, it would show that he has some testicles and can take the heat when the fat is in the fryer.
by bluecrip on Mar 23, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's largely more rumor-mongering, but Matt Jones is hosting an interesting live
chat over at his site. He is expressing some fairly strong views (he won’t call them predictions) that Gillispie is out after the NIT, based on his “sources.” He’s also intimating that if Gillispie stays, Meeks goes, and if Gillispie goes, Meeks stays. He opines that for Patterson, it will be a truly business decision. Take it for what it is.
Regardless, whether the decision has been made or not, we won’t know until after the Cats end their NIT run. Personally, I’ll stomach not knowing for another 2 weeks if it means 2 big wins in MSG.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Mar 22, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would Meeks leave now after suffering through his sophomore year?
by Clay Mason on Mar 22, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if there's any truth to that statement, I would guess:
1. Meeks’ relationship with the coach has soured this season, and
2. He could not have gone pro after his sophomore season. He has that option now, even if it is second round.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Mar 22, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones and KSR
Is one of the “best” UK blogs to breed negativity among the BBN with his so called sources. I used to like reading the posts there but not anymore.
by kykat51 on Mar 22, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont understand the negativity towards Matt and KSR
Everyone has sources. Whether they are valid is another question. He posts the info he recieves, then states his opinion.
I dont believe he has any agenda, as some have suggested. He is just a fan with a blog. Thing is, blogs are becoming increasingly powerful as far as circulating information. The problem with KSR lies with many of the posters. That is where the rumors and ‘far Billy!’ comments fly.
by DeadHeadCat on Mar 22, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The commenters there
You are exactly right. I have had a hard time with Matt lately. Why fuel the fire if one is a UK fan?
Where do you think John Clay’s or any of the media in newspapers or ESPN and others got their basis for the negativity since UK started losing in the SEC? IMO from blogs just like Jones’, showing the discontent, oh and let me add the LHL to the list.
IMO, it would do them many a favor to read ASoB where the rational fans of UK reside.
by kykat51 on Mar 22, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
I thought this was all the media’s fault? Now its the blogosphere’s fault?
by Ontherocks on Mar 22, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean.
I guess I just dont agree with blaming Matt. I have not seen any post that could be seen as harmful or malicious. The problem starts and ends with the posters.
However, I do agree with your description of this site. This is my sanctuary for rational opinion and thoughtful perspective. Although, during the end of the regular season, you saw some of those posters infesting this site. It is unavoidable.
by DeadHeadCat on Mar 22, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree.
Much of what Matt hears is true, with exceptions. Especially regarding recruiting, he tends to get information a little faster than others. I don’t mean his “sources” aren’t flawless, but overall he has a pretty good handle on what happens inside UK.
I don’t understand the negativtiy towards him. Yes, the posters there are, for the most part, blowhards, but Matt tends to be fairly rational. In the live chat last night he admitted to being “conflicted” about whether Gillispie should go or not, but took care to clear up the rumors that Gillispie mistreated him in some way. He said that while he isn’t around Gillispie as much as others, Gillispie has always been relatively good to him.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
by blbskue on Mar 23, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones is only negative when you say something bad about Obama
Other than that, many in the so called real media would kill for his sources.
by btcoop71 on Mar 22, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
I still love KSR for some fun reads, but it is turning more ad more into a TCP clone. Comments from “experts” and I can see more of the posts becoming derogatory to the current coach and overall being more negative toward the program in general.
This is one of the main reasons this website is getting more and more of my attention. As I expect more “true fans” to come and be pleasantly surprised by the content and perspective of this site and its content.
by kyeric on Mar 22, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhart and Todd
Have both made statements to the media. Why doesn’t the BBN listen? Just like Ken so aptly said, “We want answers and we want them yesterday”. They both spoke about the end of season evaluation. It’s nothing new. Geez.
I have to blame the media for this mess also. They did not hear the statements from Barnhart and Todd either. Instead they chose to go to the various message boards and take the negative comments to write an article to fuel more frenzy. As I have said before in other threads on this blog, I am ashamed of some of the UK fans for all their negativity and lack of patience. I has disgusted me.
by kykat51 on Mar 22, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones
“apparently” according to Matt,this story goes much deeper.I hate what is going on with the program at the moment.GM on the verge of bankruptcy and Kentucky Basketball no longer among the elite.Wake me up and tell me this is a bad dream.
by -Zoso- on Mar 22, 2009 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No kidding.
Its rather depressing actually. I figured this fiasco would eventually fade away and things would return to “normal” in the BBN. I am stunned it has gotten to this point.
by DeadHeadCat on Mar 22, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My position is ...
… it needn’t have. Unless Gillispie is in the middle of an audition for keeping his job (not impossible), this rumor mill should have been stopped, one way or the other, a long time ago.
That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. If you are going to dismiss a coach, don’t let him twist on the rumor mill and be savaged by the media — do it and have done.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, Tru. CM Newton said recently that when a decision was made to cut the coach loose
regardless of the timing, do it right then. Naturally I’m paraphrasing, but that’s essentially his message. Why torture anyone this way? If my job was on the line, I’d be happier if my boss either gave me a game plan with stated goals/expectations, or cut me loose on the spot.
by bluegrassgal on Mar 22, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And BG knew
that he was over his head.One sweet 16 appearance with a NBA lottery pick PG speaks for itself
by -Zoso- on Mar 22, 2009 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't Mitch Barnhart have known that as well?
Just askin’.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tru,typo on my part
I meant MB instead of BG knew.JMO,but looking back,Donovan flirted with the UK job,and appeared to be a “home run” back in 2007.But honestly,it is in Donovan’s best interest at UF for UK not to be a good team.After what appeared to be a lock in Donovan,MB was grabbing straws,and BG appeared to be the best pick at the time.
Fast forward two years later.I feel BG deserves another year.Was BG a flash in the pan?Maybe,but MB needs to let him have another year.
by -Zoso- on Mar 23, 2009 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhart As Hamlet
Not sure this is the place to wax classic but doesn’t Barnhart seemingly agonizing (he may not be at all, of course) remind one of Hamlet’s similar quandary. Most are aware of the beginning although perhaps not aware that it originated with Shakespeare:
To be, or not to be—that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die, to sleep—
No more—and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. ’Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep—
To sleep—perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause…
A simple decision tree used by many executives and managers could help:
1) What’s the problem?
2) What results does he want?
3) What options are open to him?
4) What might be the consequences?
Sounds simple until one begins to provide answers.
by Wild Weasel on Mar 22, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As you can see by the post time
I got in on this after the fact. I must say I’m impressed! You don’t get Shakespeare on just any blog. Way to go WW. ASOB wins again.
by oldcat70 on Mar 23, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Answers 1-2-3-4
1. Gillispie not quite ready for UK.
2. 25 W, SEC title, Sweet 16.
3. Keep G or replace him.
4. More poor results or better.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gillespie is staying....duh!
The statements by the parents of the top 2 recruits says all that needs to be said.
Daniel Orton’s father: “I got a call into the AD, Mitch, just trying to find out what is going on cause we had our mind on coach Gillispie being the coach there coming in….you always have to re-think it because you come to a school because of a coach”
Jon Hood’s Father:“We are trying to stay positive with it, were hoping that doesn’t happen, that he’s still there, he gets an opportunity to finish what he started, i think he has alot of good pieces in place, talent is there, he’s got talent coming in, next year be a special year”
Fire Gillespie and risk losing a top 10 recruiting class? Are you people nuts? Everyone gets at least 3 years unless the wheels are coming off and it looks to me if the Cats can keep either Meeks or Patterson they will be a preseason top 10. If that team doesn’t at least reach the Sweet 16 myself and my good friend Bo Lampley will call for Gillespie’s head along with the rest of you.
by chrisgettlefinger on Mar 22, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I pretty much agree with what you say, except that I don't see anybody calling for G's head ...
at least not on this thread.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bo LANTER?
He was Gettelfinger’s walk-on buddy.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think that's what he meant. Wasn't Lanter on scholly ... maybe not.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe 1 Year
I remember him playing a big game against ND when Bowie and Minniefield were suspended.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Preseason top 10?????
I’m as optimistic about next year as any rational Cat fan can be… and I agree that the talent will be there for a special team… but I don’t see anyone in the media or the coaches association picking UK as a top 10 team before the season starts.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Mar 23, 2009 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what is so stupid about this whole fiasco
People don’t think it affects and hurts the future of UK basketball? Please, you saw it right there from the parents themselves.
Chris, I have to ask you a question. Your last name stuck out like a good thumb. Are you any relation to Msgr Gettlefinger who was the priest at St. Augustine’s in Lebanon for ages? That name is not common.
by kykat51 on Mar 22, 2009 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kykat -- Gettlefinger was a reserve player at UK in the late '70's.
This gentlemen has simply taken Gettlefinger’s name as his screen name — Think FakeGimelMartinez without the “Fake.”
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gettelfinger Spelled It Differently
But he did come to UK from Knoxville Catholic HS so it’s possible the priest is a relative.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a wise leader.
I will never forget his sermon one Sunday, and this was in the 60’s. He said that one of these days that no one will be black or white….we will all be of a different color.
If I am not mistaken, he originated from New Haven.
by kykat51 on Mar 22, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
guess what folks...?
We have a game tonight….!!!
I think that is kinda getting lost in the shuffle… lol
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 23, 2009 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Perspective
I have seen many public discussions of Mitch’s and President Todd’s comments about this year’s UK basketball team in various forums. However, Larry Vaught is the only voice so far who has included this insightful recent quote by Mitch:
“Two years is a pretty short time to be a harsh judge on anybody ”.
I haven’t talked to anyone connected with UK in any manner….whether they are an alumnus, a former player, or anyone else….who is satisfied with four straight seasons of double digit losses, or with failing to earn an NCAA Tournament invitation this season. That’s where we all agree. But when we get down to explanations, the disagreements begin.
I will not rehash these points of disagreement here. I will simply point out that the current coach is playing with a roster that includes five scholarship players he recruited himself. The only senior on the team(Carter) is a noncontributory player recruited by the previous staff. The three best players on the team are a junior (Meeks) who missed virtually all of last season with injuries, a sophomore (Patterson), and a freshman (Miller), all of whom are still learning the nuances of the D-1 game
The last UK staff was under pressure to resign after a decade in the saddle because of poor recruiting (Jared Carter, Adam Williams, Rekalin Sims, Morakinyo Williams, AJ Stewart), double-digit loss seasons, and a series of drug-scandalized and turmoil-plagued teams. Has anyone forgotten the “team turmoil” years?
The current staff was hired in April-June of 2007, inherited the roster left behind by the previous staff, and has has less than two years in Lexington. Mitch is on record as saying two years is a “pretty short time to be a harsh judge….”
People are saying all kinds of things about this. Some of the public comments contain a modicum of reason….others frankly don’t. Rick Bozich of the C-J and Seth Davis of SI.com recently ran with unsubstantiated opinion pieces speculating that Coach Gillispie will not be back at UK next year. Conversely, David Climer (Tennessean), Tony Barnhart (AJC), and Jerry Tipton (LHL) have acknowledged recently that Gillispie will be back in 2009-10, when Daniel Orton, Jon Hood, and GJ Vilarino (and apparently Matt Pilgrim and Konnor Tucker) will be part of the UK program.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that all UK fans should welcome Orton, Hood, Vilarino, and company graciously, and refrain from poisoning the recruiting environment in the meantime.
Apparently with the notorious exceptions of several LHL columnists and a limited group of extremists in UK’s fan base, everyone else seems to agree that Mitch Barnhart is a competent and insightful AD. I personally believe Mitch is the best thing that has happened to UK athletics in a generation. I still vividly remember when Mitch defended Rich Brooks in 2004 and 2005 against an onslaught of attacks from LHL columnists that we all now understand to have been premature and poorly conceived. How many times must we repeat the lesson that the most vocal members of the Lexington media are charlatans with their own short-sighted agendas?
Accordingly, I hope everyone will tone down their public rhetoric about UK’s coaching staff now, and leave the evaluation of Gillispie to Mitch (just as President Todd is leaving it to Mitch, if one carefully reads all of Todd’s comments). In the final analysis, no one is as plugged into this situation as Mitch Barnhart, and no one has a stronger interest in the success of UK’s athletic programs.
There is no rational basis for taking the position….on the one hand….that Barnhart is a competent AD, but….on the other hand….that the rest of us should rush to judgment on Gillispie before Barnhart completes his evaluation. Let’s all refrain from making that error in judgement. Keep the dirty laundry in the washing machine, where it belongs.
by Messenger on Mar 23, 2009 6:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No UK Staff Member Was Under Pressure To Resign In 2007, That's BS
You neglected a few recruits’ names.
Randolph Morris, Joe Crawford, Ramel Bradley, Rajon Rondo, Jodie Meeks, Derrick Jasper, Perry Stevenson (et al) from the same timeframe.
And Patrick Patterson, Jai Lucas were ready to join them in March 2007.
This is why the national media spreads the lie that UK forced out its prior coach in 2007. Not true. Folks like Messenger want to “take credit” for that but it never happened.
And it will continue so long as this kind of drivel gets regurgitated.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There Was Pressure
There was considerable pressure asking for Smith to be replaced in 2007 and before. I personally know of literally thousands of emails and other correspondences to the administration. Whether the administration or Smith himself responded to those calls is purely speculative. For whatever reason he’s no longer present.
by Wild Weasel on Mar 23, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may have been a fan for forty years, but apparently you haven’t learned much. Your reply is an ad hominum misrepresentation. I obviously didn’t say or imply anything you are suggesting.
You are right about one thing. The national media does like to spread lies about UK. Considering how many times I have posted on various forums (including this one) to argue against the national media’s lies about UK….including the one you mentioned….I interpret your statement as drivel.
Further, how have Randolph Morris and Rajon Rondo had anything to do with Billy Gillispie? How do you know Pat Patterson was ready to join UK’s program before Tubby left? That very clearly isn’t what he said, and it certainly didn’t appear to be the case when he visited Gainesville.
And BTW, Joe Crawford and ramel Bradley are among Gillispie’s biggest public supporters. Or did you miss that?
It’s easy to sit at a keyboard and type nonsense anonymously. I’ll bet you have more where this came from.
by Messenger on Mar 23, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baloney
I listed ALL recent recruits, not just the ones you CHOSE to include.
Most of them were LONG GONE before Gillispie arrived. But G did recruit Rekalin Sims HARD.
Patterson and Lucas were ready to commit to UK in March 2007. Parents of both confirmed that FIRSTHAND to may own ears.
Any time, any place, anywhere, bubba.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS Vaught
Thinks he’s gone this week (or after L in NIT).
Despite your mention above.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think so
That isn’t what Vaught said. I have read all of Vaught’s columns on the issue.
But even if Vaught thinks as you suggest, the only opinion that matters is Mitch’s.
by Messenger on Mar 23, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Columns?
I read his E-Mails (daily).
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make some good points.
I think it’s pretty important to understand that what I perceive as Mitch Barnhart’s self-serving lack of leadership in the instant case is not a fatal flaw. I like Barnhart fine, and I think he has done a good if not great job as Kentucky AD. Barnhart is under a tremendous amount of pressure in this case. He has made some errors in judgment, but we all do — if I can’t demand perfection from Gillispie, how could I demand it of Barnhart?
We cannot hide our heads in the sand and ignore what is right in front of us, though. I will be very unhappy if Barnhart fires Gillispie or forces him out, but I won’t be calling for Barnhart’s head if he does — not because I agree with the decision to do so, but because it his his decision to make. I have not lost confidence in him, even if I think he needs to show more leadership on this issue.
I reject the suggestion that we cannot rationally discuss the status of Gillispie without somehow harming recruiting. To the extent that doing so damages recruiting, the MSM are making very sure that happens no matter what we say here. This little blog won’t make a difference, and even if it did, I refuse to ignore the main thing that is on the mind of the Big Blue Nation, even if it is unpleasant. I have not allowed crusaders in here and have rejected the rumor-mongers. However, informed speculation is what blogs do.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I respect your role on the forum, and I think you do a nice job here. Whether I agree or disagree with a particular opinion that you express, I enjoy your articulate way of expressing your point of view.
That said, I believe your observations about Mitch are off base. Mitch is not under any more pressure than any major conference AD is. Mitch has Lee Todd’s full support and, believe me, he couldn’t care less what John Clay, Jerry Tipton, and Rick Bozich think about anything. Mitch knows how to evaluate his athletic programs in a long term perspective, and he doesn’t do it over the internet or by reading the newspaper.
Mitch has been through this before. In 2004 and 2005, a corner of UK’s fan base tried to run Rich Brooks out of town. Mitch stuck by his coach and, now, all the charlatans who rushed to judgment against Brooks look like morons. In late 2002 and early 2003, the LHL went for Mitch’s jugular just for hiring Brooks. That turned out to be nonsense too. Mitch hasn’t forgotten those lynch mobs, and he won’t let another coach be lynched now..
People can try all they want to make something bigger out of this, but it’s not going to amount to more than a tempest in a teapot unless 2009-10 turns out like the last four UK basketball seasons. And, but next season, the roster will be predominantly composed of Gillispie’s recruits. So if Billy can’t win with his own players, then most of us will be far less inclined to defend him. And since Mitch is obviously trying to give Gillispie an opportunity to sink or swim with his own players, I believe that will be the litmus test. And if Billy gets it done next year, then you will have to concede these points. It’s your board, and you can reject all the suggestions that don’t support your line of reasoning. I agree with you that UK won’t lose basketball recruits because of a thread on Sea of Blue. But think you underestimate Barnhart…. and not just in this particular instance.
by Messenger on Mar 23, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Was 70-26 At TAMU With Half Or Fewer Of His Own Players
He doesn’t need HIS players to W or (at least) didn’t at TAMU.
That’s a red herring.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Lanter
I don’t think I’m related to the preacher guy but I had fire red hair and the crowd went bananas when I scored at the end of a blowout. I figured with Casey and everyone weighing in I should opine. BTW Jay Shidler says keep BCG. He stole my girlfriend (Jay Shidler not BCG) but other than that a fine fellow.
by chrisgettlefinger on Mar 23, 2009 6:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gettelfinger
I believe he spelled his name different than you spell yours.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still to be decided
This thing won’t be over untill the season is over,which may be tonight, I think Mitch B will give BG the opportunity to stay if he agrees to some changes. If BG refuses,and that’s possible with his ego,then a change will be made. It’s my hope MB has plan B ready to go if BG say’s “I’m outta here.” And I don’t mean Travis Ford or John Pelphrey.
by maysvilleblue on Mar 23, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Think UK Gets W Tonight
So I can see the game at ND this week.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so but...
Creighton is a good team that probably deserved to be in the NCAA tourney and they are at home. I have family who live in Omaha and they say the place is going bonkers because UK is going to play there. Expect a sellout. Not a good situation for these Cats.
by maysvilleblue on Mar 23, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Creighton is like any other mid-major
Big programs refuse to schedule home and homes with them. The opportunity to get a legendary program like UK (even if they are significantly down) to come into their home court is not an opportunity to be missed. The crowd will be crazy about it.
If this team is going to do what Gillispie hints at and “become special,” then tonight is the night to get it done.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Mar 23, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ken calls for cool
and patience. So far there are at least 74 impassioned and somewhat impulsive responses. Seems like some prefer to be “hot.”
by Fortunatus on Mar 23, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it all goes away if...
…Mitch would make a statement or Billy would answer THE question… IMO
The speculation, that is…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 23, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you want?
Barnhart has said they’ll talk after the season.
Should he say “Coach Gillispie will be our coach” now and then meet with him after the NIT is done and decide to can him only to have to say “My bad.”
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Mar 23, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhart could f**k up a wet dream
I have no confidence in him. He is better off keepin ghis mouth shut.
by btcoop71 on Mar 23, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes ...
… after the season is too long to wait. I think this is one of those times.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barnhart Vacation
Reported on another site that Barnhart left on a vacation immediately following UNLV game and will be back in his office 3/25. If true that would explain his lack of response to Larry Orton — the most damning charge IMO — and his recent overall non-forthcoming.
by Wild Weasel on Mar 23, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
If he is on vacation, he can hardly be blamed for not returning phone calls.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 23, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vacation
Vacations are usually planned well in advance, and I have a hard time believing that Barnhart would schedule a trip in the middle of March, but who knows.
I’m going to check into it … I’ll post if I find out anything.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 23, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
No way in hell he planned a vacation for the middle/end of March. And if he did go on vacation, someone with that standing would still be in contact with his/her office. No excuse.
by btcoop71 on Mar 23, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Dewayne Peevy
Barnhart is not on vacation.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 23, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he's having a little "timeout"
at Charter Ridge.
the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"
by bluesquire on Mar 23, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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