Were this year's turnovers really that bad?
We've all been complaining about how many turnovers this year's edition of the Cats have had. But has it really been bad? And has it been worse than most years? I decided to take a look at Jon Scott's site to gather a little data.
Turnover information is only available on the site starting with the '79 team. For the thirty years since then, not including this year, UK has averaged just under 14.5 turnovers per game. The best years were '81, '85, and '86 with around 12.5 per game. The worst years, prior to the '09 team, were '80 with 16.1, '91 and '94 with 15.6 each, and '93 with 15.9. Last year's team was high also with 15.8. Interestingly, '05 and '06 were fairly low, with about 13 per game.
So, how about this year? The current team has averaged 17.2 turnovers per game, the highest on record. I would argue that 2.5 turnovers per game over the team's historical average is pretty significant.
Can we blame this turnover rate on the lack of a top-notch point guard? Probably in part, but the entire team has done its share contributing to the total. This team just has not handled the ball well, either dribbling or passing in traffic. I would propose to my fellow Wildcat fans that this is one, but only one, issue that must be solved before next season.
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it is when you consider...
that this is not a running team and you do not have the talent to make up for a high turnover/assist ratio…
I can see a running team with far more possessions and playing at a faster pace, having more turnovers…
IMO
regardless, I agree, we must solve this issue next year in order to be successful…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
by vinceuk1 on Mar 20, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't Know What Their TO Numbers Were
But Rupps Runts (1966) had the reputation of being one of his ball-handling teams ever. And 27-2 to prove it.
Yet 15-10 in 1965 the year B4 and 13-13 in 1967 the year after. Presumably good ballhandlers on both of those teams?
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 20, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't swear to the numbers,
but I think I remember Coach Rupp foaming at the mouth about eight or nine turnovers one game in ‘65-66. And vince’s point is very well taken: this year’s team is not a running team while many teams in the past were. Certainly the Runts were; they pushed the ball every chance they got, yet still didn’t turn the ball over much. How else could a team with the tallest starter at 6’5" have played so welll?
As for why the ‘65 and ’67 teams had worse records, I can only attribute it to chemistry. The Runts had it, the years before and after didn’t, even though there were many players in common. I just don’t know how else to explain it.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
by oldcat'69 on Mar 21, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry Is A Big Factor
The 62 and 64 Cats were very good teams. (23-3 and 21-6) The 63 squad was just 16-9.
Many of the same players, I’m sure.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 21, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TO's
May be comparable to the past but when they happened this season it just looked gawd awful bad to me. So many were unforced, maybe why, and I think cost us some wins on many occasions.
by kykat51 on Mar 21, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think you are right.
Many of the turnovers this year were totally unforced, and didn’t result from excellent anticipation on the part of the opponents. They were just passes thrown to the other team, or dribbles right into a defensive player. Basic skills either lacking or not properly used for some reason. Again, maybe just poor chemistry.
No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!
by oldcat'69 on Mar 21, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also where the turnovers occured on the floor.
We had far too many “live” turnovers that turned into easy points for the other team, and conversely, we didn’t force near enough of those kinds of turnovers.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Mar 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turnovers, rebounding and poor perimeter D
Easily the biggest problems. When you give your opponent extra shots, i.e. turnovers or rebounds, it usually doesn’t turn out well. We haven’t had the best shooting, but it’s been good enough to get into the tourney.
by daniel81 on Mar 21, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ill-advised shots
are just as bad as turnovers. Both violate the concept of valuing every possession, maximizing the chances of scoring. Most often, both result from poor decision-making, which was what Gillispie kept citing in our losses.
I wonder what happens when you add turnovers and missed field goal attempts and then figure shooting percentage. (It’s not quite the same as points per possession because free throws are omitted.)
A good shooting percentage can compensate for a turnover or two, and a low number of turnovers can boost a low shooting percentage. But if poor decisions are the root cause of both, then why are players making poor decisions (after 30 games)? Immaturity? Lack of chemistry? Inflexible offense? Following directions to pass the ball into double and triple teams? Players still learning the offense? Players playing uptight? Ineffective game plans? Poor basic skills? Too much dribbling? Low BB IQs? Passing up open shots?
It’s probably a combination of factors, but too frequently we do not look like a fluid, confident team on the court.
by Fortunatus on Mar 21, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Players who aren't that smart, frankly.
The problem wasn’t just Porter getting his pocket picked as much as it was Jodie and DeAndre and others (including Porter) throwing the ball away. I don’t think BCG stressed turnovers in practice, either, because he certainly told the media several times they didn’t really concern him all that much.
Fortunatus, the KENPOM.com cite does offer some analysis of the type you reference, juggling turnovers with shot per centages and free throw acumen, etc. to get an offensive efficiency number.
by Ken Pomeroy on Apr 8, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perimeter Talent, Lack Of
Nearly all of UK’s numerous difficulties this season can be attributed to a single factor: dearth of talent — especially dexterity with the ball — on the perimeter. Even Meeks, unequivocally the most talented of the group, is execrable in dribbling and passing, excelling only when he’s readying for and executing a shot. Porter at the point, well what can one say that hasn’t been spoken or written ad nauseum? Harris at the wing is no threat as a penetrator and less than adequate as a passer. With Stevenson’s prosthesis-type hands and bunglesome footwork you have a turnover in the making. Add to those physical limitations the seemingly cretinous BB IQ and you have the inevitable results: Team Turnover. The proximo questions are: Will Miller continue his progress in leadership, and physical and mental skills which appear to be far greater than those his senior? Will Galloway use his experience to advance to D1 status or forever be relegated to the pejorative “juco transfer”? Will Liggins mental acuity approach his considerable skills? Will the incoming perimeter players be sufficiently precocious to contribute? And will the contrarious Gillispie sit the seniors?
by Wild Weasel on Mar 21, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Porter Is NOT A PG
The UK coach plays him there.
He is a SG (back-up to Meeks).
The 2007 (Legion transferred) and 2008 (Liggins, Galloway) recruits are devoid of wing talent.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 21, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PG,T.O's & Finishing a play.
You’re right, Porter is not a PG, but he did a decent job, somebody had to. There were way to many t.o’s. Some were from lack of focus. How many times did Galloway or Harris dribble into the paint or back into it and make a move to the basket and leave the ball back where they were. How many times were they trying to feed the ball inside through 3 defensive players. Then you have all the points they would of had if they would focus and finish at the basket like it’s nobodies buisness. I know BCG made a few mistakes with bad substitutions. If you really get down to it, the team as a whole including the coach are actually young. They will learn and get better and hopefully get some more help and talent. I belive they will.
GO CATS!!!!!!
by BleedNBlue on Mar 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Should Be VERY Good NEXT Year
25+ W anyway.
F Miller, Harris
F Patterson, Pilgrim
C Orton, Stevenson
G Meeks, Hood
G Liggins, Galloway
2 deep at every spot.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 21, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forty you need to qualfy that statement ...
… if everyone returns UK should be pretty good next year :)
Still no PROVEN point, or reliable help for PPat. Of course Orton and/or Pilgrim MAY help Patterson out in the paint … and allow the big fella to play his true position.
No Porter on your roster breakdown?
by Ken Howlett on Mar 21, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Think He Goes Full-Time Dad
And I qualified it with “Should” at the start.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 21, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
OK, you SHOULD have been more specific, then :)
By the way, congrats on Purdue making it to the Sweet 16. I’m sure the folks in West Lafayette are pleased as punch with Matt Painter — He’s done a great job so far.
by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
27 W is 2nd Most W ever by Boilers (tied with ’79 team) and only trailing ’88 and ’94 teams, both at 29 W.
Purdue was 7-21 in 2005 and 9-19 in 2006.
Then 22-12 in 2007, 25-9 in 2008, now 27-9.
Painter has done a superb job recovering from ’05 and ’06 results.
by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor decisions
The turnovers can be overlooked if your trying to do something productive, but most of the turnovers came from lazy passing and poor decisions.
by ryangolf25 on Mar 22, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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