Morning Newspaper: Groundhog Day Edition
by Glenn Logan on Feb 2, 2009 10:27 AM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats News
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"This is pitiful. A thousand people freezing their butts off waiting to worship a rat. What a hype. Well, it used to mean something in this town. They used to pull the hog out, and they used to eat it. You're hypocrites, all of you!" -- Bill Murray as Phil Connors the Weatherman in Groundhog Day
I'm sure most of you have either seen or heard about the 1993 movie Groundhog Day starring Bill Murray and Andie McDowell. Right now it seems that the Wildcats are stuck in their own Groundhog Day-scenario, but instead of living the same day over and over again, the Wildcats are living the same game over and over again (with occasional forays into improvement) -- outshooting their opponent in every way, but turning the ball over so many times it doesn't matter.
But right now, it's time for news.
Kentucky Basketball News
- Garnet and Black Attack reviews the UK-USC game.
- Matt Jones has his morning post up, and there is little of interest except some remarks about an alleged exchange between Liggins and Gillispie that seems to follow a pattern of such exchanges. I think I am forced to agree with Matt, the relationship between Liggins and Gillispie is not something you see every day between a college coach and his player. In fact, for all the world, it resembles nothing so much as a father-son relationship when the young man starts challenging his father.
I don't know what it means, and I am unable to dissect it. Gillispie still plays Liggins just like any other member of the team, and as much as some want to deny it, the kid is gradually getting there. His stretches of good play, particularly on defense, are longer and more intense, although he still has a troubling tendency to put up bad shots (and for Liggins right now, any shot is a bad shot if it is not a layup). Perhaps that will diminish as well. Hope springs eternal. - Mississippi State eyes extending Kentucky's losing streak.
- John Clay notes that the last two possessions of the South Carolina game were amongh the most poorly-coached in a long time. I think he's right.
Now, it's time for an editorial:
There is very little in the news about UK today as the Big Blue Nation collectively holds its breath for the next game with a dangerous Mississippi State team. We'll have more on that later, but I do want to note that some of the more emotional boards and blogs around the Blue and White blogosphere have undergone a staggering meltdown after this latest loss. Criticism of Coach Gillispie has never been louder or more vitriolic since he took the job at Kentucky, and even though it is something we see a lot of after losses here in the Bluegrass, the volume and vociferousness of it, especially from some former supporters, is disturbing.
Before I go on, those of you tempted to take this opportunity to take issue with Tubby Smith, do it elsewhere. I will instantly delete any and all comments of that nature. This is about Gillispie.
Gillispie is still a work in progress here at Kentucky, as is the team he coaches. I know that many in the BBN wanted a Pitinoesque return to glory at minimum, and preferably a faster one, since the circumstances around the most recent coaching change were infinitely less difficult than the previous.
I am disturbed by the criticism of Gillsipie not just because of the volume and nastiness of it, but because it bespeaks a fan base that cannot come to grips with the reality of a down period in Kentucky basketball. It has happened before and will happen again, but a coaching change after only two years would set this program back to Eddie Sutton levels. Some would argue that we are there right now, but honestly, I remember those days of despair. We aren't even close, and I damn sure don't want to get any closer.
We all knew that this team had issues, but most of us (including me) were wrong about what they would be, as is so often the case. I expected ball handling to improve, but it regressed dramatically. I expected shooting to be poor, but it has been terrific. The thing that is holding us back right now is a failure of the coach to successfully address the former. Offensive rebounding is also a problem right now, but that is such an easy fix, I can't imagine it won't get better. The turnovers seem intractable, and Gillispie has to find a way to cut them down to a manageable level. So far, to the extent he has tried to do so, I would say he has failed utterly.
That's disturbing. There are many ways to fix something like turnovers, but Gillsipie seems determined not to modify one thing about his approach to offense, but rather just accept the turnovers as an impediment to be overcome by experience and brute force. That's extreme closed-mindedness in my view, and I don't think that is a desirable trait in a basketball coach. I am troubled by his lack of adaptability and his rigid approach to the game, which disguises any attempts to adjust due to the limited scope of adjustments available to perform in such a philosophy. "Play harder," seems to be his answer to everything. Fine, then what do we need a multi-million dollar coach for? A lot of less costly coaches could successfully encourage that.
It may seem that I am being hard on the coach, but for all the world, I see nothing approaching an effort at innovative thinking by him or his staff. Perhaps he is of the opinion that simplicity is best, and refuses to add layers of complication. I can respect that philosophy, even as I'm somewhat skeptical of it's ultimate effectiveness in modern college basketball. Of course, there is much we don't see that goes on behind the scenes, and any criticism of Gillispie and his methods must be tempered by that reality. In the end, it is all about results, and it is the results that has the Big Blue Nation in an uproar. But with all this said, I think calling for Gillispie's head is completely, utterly, and in all other ways ridiculously over the top.
Given the fact of the instant outrage, however, I honestly don't know what will happen if UK goes on a long losing streak, winds up in the NIT or with an untenable seed in the NCAA tournament. At this moment, given the reaction to a modest two-game skid, I fear the very worst. I hope, nay, I pray my fears are groundless.
Kentucky Football/Other News
- Even Georgia is noticing Kentucky's strong recruiting efforts.
- Something I missed earlier. Sports by Brooks has a long, detailed look at the new Rich Brooks Edition F-150. Pretty funny.
NCAA Basketball News
- Penn State beats Michigan State. Penn State is actually a pretty good team.
- The Vols get a big victory over Florida this weekend.
- A police video of Andy Kennedy's arrest has been obtained. What a mess.
- The Coaching Carousel is spinning madly.
NCAA Football News
- Track Em Tigers wonders if the Auburn faithful were wrong in being so harshly critical of Gene Chizik's hiring.
Other News of Interest
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Re: Kennedy
Hilarious interchange:
"It’s not worth it. Please trust me. Please trust me on this. This is going to be a national incident, sir," continued Kennedy.
"Sir, everything you’re saying right now is being recorded," replied the officer.
"No, I understand that," said Kennedy.
"You think we’ve never arrested somebody that’s made national media? …We deal with the Bengals all the time," said the officer.
We deal with the Bengals all the time. Haha.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Great blog...
Tru, I’ve been reading here for a while now and I love the commentary. Its not over the top but tempered and reasonable. Great work here, living so far away from my Cats, I really appreciate the insight and resources provided to keep my connected.
I agree that Billy G leaving now would devastate the program. I think he needs to start worrying in 3 to 4 years, Mitch seems to give our coaches a little time. I think it’ll come around, maybe not this year, but I think we’ll start seeing it next year when we get some more talent in here (not to slam our current team, but we have a lot of “role” players). The young talent we currently have I hope will develop. Liggins especially, I’m surprised their volatile relationship hasn’t become a distraction (it may be).
All that being said, missing the tournament (this year) would really hurt, hopefully we’ll finish strong.
Thanks for reading.
I think we will do fine this year, but we do need to get going again.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Tru, I agree with your comments regarding Gillispie 100%.
I hope that doesn’t scare too many people. For those crazed enough to think about removing him now or in the short term, I bring you the case of Notre Dame football. The recent revolving door up here with that program has caused them a world of hurt….the alumni pressure makes UK and others look like kindergarten, it has really hurt recruiting, etc. And recently, it has really cornered ND on what they can or should do with Weiss. Its a real cluster you know what. UK doesn’t want that.
Not that Gillispie is beyond questioning…heck, all coaches are. I am with you (and I have brought this up before), the extreme nature of the UK fan base is unbelievable and is not good for the program. UK goes on a six game winning streak against teams that have a RPI SOS averaging around 200 and they think UK is a Top 25 team or can get to the Final Four. UK loses 2 games and let’s fire the coach. I don’t think there is another program’s fan base that behaves that way.
I get the enthusiasm for the program….that’s why I like to follow UK…but geeez, the downside is as bad as I have seen it, even during the ‘prior coaching’ period.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Panic over a 2 game losing streak
I certainly understand your stance on this, however I would ask… when is an appropriate time to panic? 3 games? 4 games? 5 games? When we end up in the NIT?
I’m certainly not at that point now, but I do think its a fair question to ask. When is it okay to panic?
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Hmmmm...
I guess it depend how you would define panic….but good question. I don’t think a fan base should panic unless there is proof or evidence if a coach is losing control of his team or the program:
1. Are there good players exiting the program…I don’t think you can blame Jasper on Gillispie. Now if Liggins leaves…
2. Are the players ‘mis-behaving’ off the court…I see no evidence of that whatsoever.
3. Is there evidence that the players are losing respect…I don’t see it necessarily although the actions of Liggins are somewhat concerning.
4. Are there NCAA violations? No
5. Are the players not going to class? No problems.
So I guess I am saying that one shouldn’t panic on a game to game basis. It’s more about where the team and program is headed and I don’t see a real worrisome issue with that….right now.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Panic
Its never OK to panic. It does aboslutley no good whatsoever. The fan base “panicing” helps nothing at all ever. It’s just a distraction and will ot help the team or the coach.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
agree but
would be very concerned if we do not make the tournament NEXT year. hopefully, that will not be the second year in a row, but if it is, then something will need to change….
by memphis wildcat on Feb 2, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Obviously ...
… if we struggle to make the tournament this year, I think fans would be right to be concerned. Not panicky, not irrational, but concerned. Next year, depending on who comes and goes, is the real “do or die” year for Gillispie. Unless UK were to undergo a complete collapse, he would even get another year after that, but he will have worn out his welcome and run out of reflexive defenders.
Then, he would have to perform. Right now, he is getting by largely on good will. There is still a considerable reservoir, but it is not limitless.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
if
we do not make the tourney this year….I am thinking that heads will roll but honeslty my gut says we are not even close to that happening. Unless and again I say if something bad is going on behind closed doors then we are in trouble but honestly we have just hit some very good teams. Just time to step it up. We still could get a two or three seed where we are now.
Good question
I am asked myself that today. At what point do we start panicking. I am not sure on this. Tomorrow night will be a good clue. Honestly though trying to decipher where I want them to be and where they should be is something that I just cannot do realistically. My big blue heart just won’t let my brain figure it out.
Agree
Im really fed up with the fickle nature of the UK fan base. I dont understand what feeds it. IMO ignorance of the game does. Regardless of how well he is or isnt doing changing coaches now would be disasterous.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
I'm certainly not in a panic
But I have seen the continuation of some disturbing trends that I would like to see come to an end. And from my seat on the couch with 20/20 hindsight, much of it seems to stem from stubborness. IMHO. And that is frustrating to me.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
What feeds it, quite frankly ...
… are the Rick Pitino years. That’s it. People tend to look at the past through blue-colored glasses and find support in history whether or not the context is really comparable.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Pitino Years = 81% Over 8 Seasons
Rupp Years = 82% over 41 seasons.
It’s those RUPP years that made the UK fanbase.
Think of that. Pitino would repeat his UK results 4 MORE TIMES and still trail Adolph Rupp.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 2, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
I know you probably don't know this ...
… But all fan bases are essentially like this who have a lot of pride in a particular team sport. Florida, if you’ll recall, ran off Ron Zook after something like 18 months on the job, and trust me, the fans down there are just as bad if not worse.
Closer to home, Louisville fans two years ago were talking about forming a lynch mob and stringing Pitino from the lights in Papa John’s Stadium. The vitriol for this hall of fame coach in the Louisville Internet community was every bit as bad as the worst we have seen from UK fans.
What you have here is a bit of a perception problem. If you had been watching fan interaction with sport over blogs and message boards as long as I have, you would not say this, because you would know it was just another large fan base going nuts. They all do.
UK fans get a bad rap because we have an extreme element that sought publicity like crazy during the Smith years, managed to find a money man or two and drew a lot of national attention to their cause. That is a rare and extremely isolated case of fan insanity that we’ll probably never see around here again.
Your points on Gillispie are, I think, right. Yes, we do have some people who let expectations run amok, but mostly, we have people that are tired of playing average basketball. They express it as angst about losses, but it goes deeper than that.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I'm glad you brought up the U of L fans of a few years ago ...
… I laughed and laughed every time I heard a Card fan on the radio or read one of their borderline insane anti-Pitino rants.
Hozeking is out of his mind with his statement that UK fans are somehow worse in regards to our behavior when suffering through difficult times.
UK fans are no different than any number of fan bases around the country, including U of L … there’s just many, many more of us.
I could not disagree more.
From my perception…and according to Tru’s analysis & diagnosis…I do have a perception problem, but I think there are two unique fan bases that stand alone in the college world; Notre Dame football and UK basketball.
If anyone thinks that the level of ‘freakin out’ back in the Pitino early days as there is going on now, I can’t see that (yea, I know…I have a perception problem). Again, it’s not all bad…it’s mostly great. It’s just that you can’t have the one w/o the other.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Like I said ...
… I have been watching this a long time. I have explained it in detail above. If you disagree, fine, but I can support my argument with facts that go deeper than just “Look at those UK fans going nuts.”
Can you?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Anecdotal evidence is not real support.
If you can share some real data, I’d be interested in that. No it’s just my opinion and for what it is worth, I’ve been watching a long time, too so I guess that ‘evidence’ is a wash. Sorry if I offended…it kind of looks like I did.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Real data?
What real data do you have? None, I expect. What you do have is a perception, so we are really comparing perceptions. I have seen Florida’s eruption, and it was widely reported. I have seen Alabama’s eruption — also widely reported. Louisville’s eruption is documented on this site if you care to search for it, although it was not reported to any extent in the media.
Do you think it’s really appropriate to demand data from me when you have produced none yourself? And no, I’m not offended, really, I just get tired of hearing the same, old, uncritical meme repeated. It isn’t you, trust me. I have heard this all before, ad infinitum. I just wish people would trouble themselves to engage their brains. Human behavior deviates from population to population within the United States, but not very much. UK fans are not, as a group, a homogeneous bunch of inbred rednecks as this dialog so superficially suggests. Again, this is not at you, but the general conversation of this subject.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Fair enough....I buy that.
But to be fair, I wasn’t the one who touted ‘…I can support my argument with facts…’ To me facts = data…but then again I work for GE. ;)
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I can provide data ...
… in the form of reports, blog posts, comments that still lay around. There were some screenshots on the site of Louisville fans going nuts when the Cardinals were struggling, and if you visited any of the Cardinal sites during football season, you would have some evidence from that.
But if you are talking reliable surveys or hard numbers of fans acting the fool, I am unaware of the existence of such statistics. So if that’s what you were expecting, you’re right, I can’t really provide something that probably doesn’t exist. So to that extent, I suppose you are right when you call it “anecdotal.” In reality, I doubt there is any other kind of evidence in available to support it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
By the way...
…you may want to include me in that fan base that is going nuts over our football. :) Always appreciate and enjoy the debates/discussions. Later.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Maybe.
I’ll accept my limitations with perception, if you will.
Look, I don’t think there is any program that has a committed and intense base than UK basketball, and that includes UofL. That’s a good thing…embrace it. However, that recognition does come with some baggage, if you will. Intensity equates to extreme views & opinions. Given the choice and with the associated baggage, I’d pick what UK has handsdown.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I believe ...
… I said that we had a very small, extreme element who managed to make the entire fan base look like loons. I also explained that this is likely a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon.
All fan bases are essentially the same, large or small, when they are extremely proud of or devoted to a team sport. The claim that there is a difference is not supported by facts. That’s all there is to it. Large fan bases have relatively larger lunatic fringes who can sometimes eclipse everyone else and become the story. We see it all the time with teams like Florida, Alabama, the New York Yankees, UK, etc. Nobody notices the lunatic fringe of smaller fan bases, even though they are relatively the same size, because they don’t have sufficient numbers to reach “critical mass.”
But just because they don’t become national news does not change reality.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Uof L
fans wanted Pitino to do what he did for Kentucky and frankly I think he has done well for them especiallly this year. BUT, he still hasn’t brought them a title and I would imagine that would make me mad as a fan. Pitinon is not what he was when he coached at UK and he even admitted it. He said before 9/11 he thought basketball was everything………now not so much. I admire him for that, but Uof L wanted him to bring what he brought at UK. Might happen this year but after years of waiting for it I can imagine them being antsy.
On UK fans ….I feel that we “deserve” to be top ten every year because we are KENTUCKY! It should not be eleven year that we make it to the final four. We were two overtimes away from it in 2005 but this is way to stinkin long. Since then we cannot crack the sweet sixteen. I am hungry hungry hungry for some NCAA success. I will tell you this though I appreciate those sweet sixteens so much more now. I appreciate being in the top twenty five more(as little as it lasted). So while I am getting very antsy about not being the top anymore it makes me apperciate the way back up there and when we do get up there I will treasure it alot more and no longer take it for granted.
Re: tenken
You hit on something that isn’t brought up often when discussing UK-Rick and U of L-Rick — I think that 911 really impacted Pitino in a big way.
Before, I think he was more akin to Gillispie as far as his fanatical work-ethic and single-minded focus on winning a Nat’l Title.
I think losing his best friend in such a tragic way opened his eyes to the other things life has to offer. Not that he isn’t a good coach still, but something is missing today, that he had 15 years ago.
I also think the Boston experience had a humbling effect on him, which he may still be feeling today.
Another thing: U of L ain’t UK, if you know what I mean.
Speaking As A 50-Something
It’s HARDER to do the same things at the same pace as I did as a 40-something.
Pitino is 12 years older than he was at his UK peak.
9-11 surely affected (as it did me, I lost 8 good friends in NYC that day) but so has aging.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 2, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
UL football...
UK basketball fans sounds like UL football fans to me from the way youve described them.
" I believe in pipedreams"
Agree
I am troubled by his lack of adaptability and his rigid approach to the game, which disguises any attempts to adjust due to the limited scope of adjustments available to perform in such a philosophy. “Play harder,” seems to be his answer to everything.
I am beginning to fear that Gillispie’s only tool may be a hammer and every problem is beginning to look like a nail. I can only take so many explanations of “We just need to play tougher” before my head explodes.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Unfortunately ...
… that was exactly what I was trying to say.
I disagree that his only tool is a hammer, he surely knows how to do other things, so I think you could accurately say that the only tool he wants to use is a hammer. But so far, what it looks like from afar is that he is trying to be the reincarnation of Adolph Rupp (recall his legendary stubborness).
He should really try to be the first Billy Gillispie.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Solution...
to me looks like teaching basics, like BLOCKING OUT and how to pass and dribble. Im sure its “much deeper” than i could possibly grasp, but im just saying the fix seems simple.
" I believe in pipedreams"
I would be interested to see...
this team coached by another coach. I am not going to use Tubby as an example.. but just some other random coach in the SEC. I really believe that they are a very average team w/ two borderline superstars. But what I admire about them is that they dive for every loose ball, their defense is down right brutal at times, blocking shots, etc. It’s only when it comes to grace and skill that we suffer. Too many turnovers, bad shooting percentages (other than Meeks and Patterson most of the time). This indicates to me that we have a very well coached team of slightly above average players. We do not have a Ty Lawson or a Blake Griffin this year in my eyes. So when all else fails, just play as mean a defense as you possibly can. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that Perry Stevenson and Ramon Harris could become legitimate offensive threats. They are gritty defensive players who have bought into Coach G’s system but really struggle to score consistently. Porter is all heart and very limited offensive production. They all want it really bad, but in the end, the skill just isn’t there. It’s like trying to squeeze water from a rock. I think Gillispie has identified his team’s weaknesses accurately and has coached accordingly. To beat UK you need to guard Patterson and Meeks and shoot well. He can’t prevent the former and he can’t make his Cats shoot well, but he can teach aggresive defensive and pray that its enough to win. I think Meeks was the right call to guard Downey the other night. He needs to feel that pressure and he’s also by far and away the fastest player on the team. I wish the results were different, but Jodie needs to improve his defensive game and what better way than to throw him to the lions. He is the leader so it should be his duty. I agree completely about Blue tinted glasses when looking back on the Pitino era. I think 10 players on the 96 team did time in the NBA… this team will be lucky to have 3. The talent level is so different, it’s getting better, but’s it’s very limited at least when comparing them to teams of the past.
I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!
by sleepytimetea on Feb 3, 2009 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
Actually 9 Players (BA) From 1996 Team
Tied with 1948, 1975, and 1978 teams – each of those also had 9 players make the NBA.
Billy Donovan (the best coach in the SEC) would also fare pretty well with the 2009 Wildcats.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 3, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions
I agree too
I have to wonder how good of a communicator BG is too. I mean, you can be the best coach in the world on paper, but if you can’t communicate effectively and pull your team together, how much good does it do you?
I have to also wonder if something like the rumored Liggins confrontations play any kind of part in it too. I mean, let’s say that BG is letting Liggins get away with some comments and bad decisions but still giving him the PT. How does that affect somebody like Galloway who doesn’t have the ’tude and seems to be a pretty solid player, but gets very little playing time?
We don't know ...
… the internal workings of the team, and probably shouldn’t speculate. There is just too many facts absent to draw any kind of reasonable conclusions. From my perspective, there doesn’t seem to be any internal strife.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Sorry.......
Was just curious, but you’re right in that it is something we can only guess about. In any case, I’m not giving up on the Cats! I seriously get tired of the fans that continually call for the coaches head after a loss or two. So glad this site is NOT AT ALL like that! Good post Tru………..
You have nothing to apologize for.
It just isn’t productive to speculate about stuff like that. We just don’t know enough, which is probably just as well. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Nah...
…no reason to apologize or worry. The UK fan base is no different than anyone else’s.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Other than being larger than most ...
… that is so.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
One very important thing to keep in mind.
UK’s fan base is not more passionate than Florida’s. They are just more passionate about a different sport. Ditto Alabama. Ditto Notre Dame. Ditto UCLA. Ditto North Carolina.
North Carolina went nuts during the Dougherty years. I saw it. It was every bit as ugly as what we see from UK fans.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Agree.
I may put Bama football in there, but my perception is Florida and UCLA is one step down from the top of that list. But again, that is only my opinion.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Fair enough.
But had you seen the crusade by UCLA fans (and a very high profile one on SBNation’s own UCLA blog) to get rid of their football coach, you might have a different view of the Bruins.
I once asked GatorPilot, a friend of this blog and a principle of Orange and Blue Hue why the Gator Nation ran off Zook so fast. His response would have made any Dynasty Defender reader proud. :-) Passion in the Gator Nation for football is just as extreme as passion in the Big Blue Nation for basketball. How we have managed to raise our fan profile higher is absolutely amazing to me.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
With A Stepadaughter Who Is An Bruin Graduate (And Member Of Their Athletic HOF)
I can assure you the Bruin fanbase is equally crazy about its sports teams. The Bruins have more NCAA titles (100+ in different sports) than any other NCAA program BY FAR.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 2, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
to put it in perspective...
I believe UK has a grand total of eight… 7 in basketball and one in women’s cross country. Is that right?
I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!
by sleepytimetea on Feb 3, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
this is a good discussion
but I have to say that I have lived in many states and I can say that what UK has is very different. See I live in Tennessee, have for almost 17 years now, I root for orange in football. I can never ever root for any team other then UK in basketball. As much as a love UK basketball is as much as I hate UT basketball. I will root for orange in any other sport but the day that Pearl challenged us I loathe ut basketball. Doesn’t make sense to me, but I physically get tense when I see that man.
I grew up in rural Kentucky in the southeastern foothills. Basketball is king there. I started playing when I was eight. Heard the stories of Rupp at six and up. From the time I was in first grade we won three state titles and went to multiple sweet sixteens in our high school. When our county went to the sweet sixteen whether girls or boys the WHOLE county got out of school and loaded buses and went up there to the games. Our whole lives revolved around basketball from elemenentry to high school. Our football was no so big mostly cause we got our tails kicked. But basketball was king which translated to UK. Instead of having a pop star on my wall, it was all UK on my wall. Most kids even girls were like that. I have not seen that anywhere but Kentucky. There may be some of that in other places but not as much. The only state that would rival that is Indiana. Matter of fact Hoosiers is what I told my husband to watch for him to understand why I love basketball so much. Kentucky is made of up alot of hard working class of people for over a hundred years we have witnessed UK basketball bring us some good times among alot of earthly heartache of colemines and economic hard times. Basketball is what helped ease the pain and still to this day brings us joy. Its something that no one unless you are from here will ever understand.
He Recruited Most Of The 2005 NC Team At UNC
Terrible coach (Doherty) but masterful recruiter.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 3, 2009 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
Here's the thing.
If Perry knocks down those two free throws, or Meeks blocks Downey, or we contest that wide open layup and it misses, or BCG doesn’t get a technical we win. Then we would be sitting here debating how gutsy a game South Carolina played and how we toughed it out and won and we’d all be looking forward to Tuesday.
We lost. Teams lose. I can’t believe the uproar I am reading on other sights as well. Sometimes I hate the internet. It exposes the very worst of our fan base.
Here’s what lost the game: we gave them the ball too many times to overcome. This is a problem we have had all year. I can bet you BCG and his staff are working on it. Unfortunately, it was better but now it’s worse. But to call for a coaches’ head after a two game slide, immediately following a 5 game win streak that got us into the polls???
Are you kidding me?
I just shake my head sometimes. This is the very reason I stopped reading any comments on any article whatsoever at KSR. I just won’t do it.
I love my Cats and for now BCG is my coach. I love him too. We need more support and less angst for these young college men who are playing basketball to pay for an education. And for the coach who is trying to lead them.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
New Bracketology
The Cats are a 6 seed facing Siena. We were a 4 seed last week. I’m actually surprised that Lunardi didn’t drop us more.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology
GBB!!!
New Polls
3 votes for UK in the Coaches Poll
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/usatpoll.htm
—
2 votes for UK in the AP Poll
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/apmen.htm
GBB!!!
what I want
to know is why South Carolina isn’t getting any love……..they beat two ranked teams in Florida and Kentucky and only have four losses, Charleston, LSU, Tennessee and Clemson who was ranked. What is up with that?
Also beat
Baylor at Baylor (was Baylor ranked then?), and Baylor sits in the top-30 right now, with an RPI of 31. The losses to Charleston (bad no matter how you cut it, but only by 2), LSU, and Tennessee were on the road. Their OOC was pretty weak other than Baylor and Clemson, but they are doing well. I think they may be in a similar boat as UK – “down” SEC, Big East hump-fest, etc., so they have more to prove than another team with a similar record. They did get some poll love this week (33 votes in the AP, 8 in the coaches, both considerably more than Kentucky). Two more wins in a row and they could crack the Top 25.
It may also be that their bigger wins were all VERY close games, i.e., the UK and Florida wins both came on last second shots, and other similar reasons, as reflected by their relatively low KenPom ranking (53) (v. 25 for Kentucky). Of course, their RPI is better, at 46, compared to 68 (ouch) for Kentucky.
2 more wins in a row, and I think they’ll be getting much more love.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
no question our fans are the most vocal
but i did go to an East Carolina board right after the Liberty Bowl. To hear their fans complain out “giving away” the game was funny – they wanted the coach’s head. i realize there is a hard core fan base for almost every team – ours is bigger and catches more grief, but we are not alone….the key to maintaining sanity is to find a well moderated board and discuss the issues sanely with others……
On turnovers
I know you guys break down a lot of stats and do a lot comparisions with them that most of us wouldn’t think about. Tru, I know you’ve looked at the turnovers probably more than you would like. But has anybody looked at the forced vs. unforced turnovers at all. I’d be curious to see how many unforced tunovers the Cats are averaging, as well as if we have one or more players that seem to have more than others.
Well I'll be
And i even posted the first comment. Must have been asleep at the wheel yesterday………lol.
Grrrr
I always hate when I read the comments on articles over at KSR – I always tell myself that I am not going to do that anymore, but cant seem to help myself! Anyway, I have to say that I do NOT like the picture of Billy G. as Billy Ray and the caption is equally as tasteless also one of the comments mentions AGAIN that BCG has not signed a contract and that he is headed out of the Bluegrass after this season stating that he doesnt look happy, etc. I, personally, would be VERY upset if BCG left and hate whenever I hear these types of things.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 2, 2009 3:45 PM EST reply actions
Grrrr equally
I saw the post you are talking about and I thought it totally tasteless as MJ professes to be an ardent UK fan. Sometimes I think he just does things like that to get more hits amongst the UK bandwagon base.
It actually shocked me that Matt would do that and I did send him an e-mail and told him how I felt, but there is no way I will read the comments section. I think those commenters there truly enjoy “nerd fights” and other sorts of tasteless comments.
Heh.
Well, they do claim to cover UK sports in the “most ridiculous way possible.” Don’t get too upset when they live up (or down) to their motto.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Re: kentuckygirl0724
Don’l let stuff like that bother you. I know G is taking some heat right now, but he’ll be fine.
AND, if he leaves after this year, I’ll come to your house and wash your car/cars :)
UK v PSU?
k u have a article in here about penn state. i have friends that go to psu and i wanted to ask everybody at asob who would win between psu and uk at Rupp? I personally go with kentucky but what do u guys think. I also ask this because its a potential match up we could face in the tourney.
I haven't ...
… seen Penn State play one time this year, so I have no clue.
They have a good record and did just beat #9 Michigan State, so that’s something UK can’t lay claim to.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Knight to Georgia?
Apparently, Bob Knight may be interested in coaching at Georgia. Personally I can’t see it happening, but I kinda like the idea of being able to put a boot in his a$$ twice a year.
Does anybody think this will actually happen?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/02/02/knight.ap/index.html
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!
This was brought up and discussed ...
… in tenken’s fanpost over on the right. Jump in there, lots of opinions on it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Sorry, I have trouble keeping up
These interwebs are so complicated these days. . .
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!
Thoughts on the year so far
- First of all, I am so glad to be able to read such a top notch blog. I wonder how many college teams have the quality read of a ASOB?
- Secondly, the players have to be coached and practice what they are doing wrong, but the players and only the players can execute the plays in the game. If you take a shot and none of your teammates are under the basket, don’t expect an offensive rebound. If you stumble across the midcourt line, don’t expect the opponent not to try to steal the ball.
- Thirdly, IMO several players are on the “bubble” concerning playing time next year. If I believe this, I think several players do, as well. This year is the time to get experience and prove your worth to get significant playing time this year and next year. I don’t mean to be overly hard on our guys. Hopson for TN is not having a break out year and he was ranked among the top 10 freshmen last year. He was clearly thought to be a “one and done”.
Given that, unless we see someone take over soon at LG, I expect to see a freshman running the team next year. If that means Liggins leaves, so be it. Perry will have a tough time breaking in the lineup whether or not Patterson stays or goes. Miller may see some time next year at SF if Meeks leaves, but I really think that position will fall to Hood. The following year Ferguson will claim it and Hood will move to SG. That keeps Miller at the backup position. Galloway has to show Coach something. He will stay as a backup because he will be a senior, but it looks like several people will have to make some tough decisions about staying or leaving based on projection of playing time with a speedy point guard, a sharp shooting guard, a big, strong power forward and a massive center all joining the team next year. It seems to me that three will start and the fourth, if Patterson stays will be a top reserve.
As we say in Western KY, where the lights just came back on, “It is time to fish or cut bait”.
Good lord.
After seeing this game, I don’t see UofL winning 2 out of 10 games against these guys. I haven’t seen such a dominating defensive presence that Thabeet brought since the Patrick Ewing years. I see UConn winning this thing right now.
I wonder when was the last time that a homecourt team only shot 2 foul shots, though….and when that same team had 3 more offensive rebounds? It’s not like we didn’t have any presence inside…not much mind you, but sheesh. Crazy.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
U of L has been playing great ball since the Vegas debacle, but ...
… I think they ran into the best team in the country tonight (with all due respect to UNC and Wake F.).
The combo of Price and Thabeet will be tough for anyone to overcome.
Jim Calhoun
2 FF in 37 years as HC.
But 2 NC both years.
Maybe #3 coming soon.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 2, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Thabeet will stop going to class.
That’s the only hope that the rest of the teams have in my opinion. Oh well, I guess I can take some twisted comfort in seeing that between UConn, Pitt, UofL, and Marquette the Big East really is the best league this year using this standard. I just hope the seeding doesn’t have us playing against UConn in the region.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Wait I thought of another couple of positive takeaways.
I just read that there were 30 NBA scouts at the game:
1. TWill just ‘made’ a lot of money…that’s a good thing.
2. Earl better think about staying another year…that’s a good thing.
3. Samuels can forget about leaving early….maybe that’s a good thing.
4. Maybe UConn will enter the NBA as a team before the regular season is over.
I must be sick….I made a four-hour round trip to watch with my son…and watched every damn minute. I need to get a life.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Taking positives away from a loss.
That can be hard to do sometimes, but you’ve done a good job with your list.
I’ll tell ya, Marquette looks like a very dangerous team. I watched them the other night, and they looked tough. Matthews, McNeal and James are all great penetrators, and all three can shoot the rock. They all handle the ball extremely well, and play tough D. If they don’t run into a matchup problem, they could make a serious run at the FF.
But, UConn is the class of the country, in my opinion. I don’t like Jim Calhoun, but he’s a fine coach.
I don’t think a valid argument can be made against the BE being the best conference in the country this year, although Notre Dame and G-Town aren’t as good as was expected. That still leaves 5 top12 or so teams in the same league. That’s strong.
I didn't see the whole game ...
… just snippets. I was at Rumors in Middletown with some friends, and I would catch a few minutes here and there.
My take based on what I saw was that Louisville tried to run with UConn. That’s a mistake. UConn runs better than just about anybody, and even though the Cards can run most teams off the floor, not UConn. You have to force them to play a lower possession game to get them out of their comfort zone. Louisville’s transition defense has been one of their weaker points all year, and that got exposed.
It looked to me like Louisville missed a lot of shots that they have been making from the perimeter. With Thabeet in the lane, you have to continuously penetrate to force him to commit, because post entry isn’t going to do much good, especially when he is like 6" or so taller than your center and more athletic to boot. I didn’t see very much penetration by the Louisville guards, and I watched several possessions where thought they could have. But again, Louisville’s guards let them down. When you take 17 threes, you have to make more than 5 against a team like UConn. Earl Clark took way too many 3-point shots, and you can’t have a stud like him managing only 5 points. UConn isn’t so good that they aught to be able to hold him down that far.
And Clark will not be back. Mark this down, and I’ll eat crow publicly if I’m wrong.
Finally, UConn is just a real good team, definitely one of the top five in the land, and they just played well. 20-24 FT attempts (83) is way above their season average. Combine that with a solid 47 from the field, and Louisville just needed to shoot much better than 34%.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I should also point out
that UCONN won that game AND scored 68 points without hitting a single three.
Louisville is still a top 5 team in my opinion (and I am by no means even close to a fan, though my wife is), but theirs has been a game of spurts and runs this season (as is often the case with Pitino). They just didn’t get enough last night spurts or runs last night, largely because of Clark and Samuels being utter nonfactors, as was most of the team except for Williams (who, yes, probably did earn himself a lot of money last night – there were LOTS of NBA scouts and team owners at that game).
Jennings looked very good last night overall, and did a pretty good job against Thabeet, getting a few blocks on him, despite the 5 inch height advantage for Thabeet. Jennings sort of reminds me of Stevenson in a lot of ways, and moves like him a little. I think Jennings is probably more of an offensive threat that Stevenson, and Stevenson a defensive threat.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
UK will make the Tournament
What is all this talk about UK not making it to “March Madness.” Right now, ESPN’s Bracetology has us at a 6 seed. UK will really need to fall apart to miss the tournament. UK needs to split with Floriday andget one on the road at USC to even out that series. We have already beat Tenn and Vandy, so getting either one again is just icing on the cake. UK still has a decent shot of matching their 12-4 conference record of last year. If they do that, UK is a 4 seed probably. Go 10-6, UK is looking at a 7-9 seed. UK will make the big dance. Next year, UK is a Top 10 with Meeks and Patterson. Stay patient.
Lane
Yeah, I think most folks here aren't worried about UK making the tourney ...
… but as you note, they are dangerously close to dropping into “no-man’s” land as far as seeding is concerned.
It’s funny, well not funny I guess, but the night before the ’Bama game I told a friend of mine that I thought UK was on the verge of exploding into a really good team.
I still feel that they can be very good, and it would not surprise me in the least if they only lost another couple of games the entire year. It also would not surprise me if they lost four or five more games …
Hopefully they’ll cure the TO bug, because even considering their other shortcomings, if they took care of the ball they’d be 7-0 in the SEC, and have only a couple of losses overall.
give the man time
who would want to come to kentucky and coach if we run billy off now. give him time to get his people in place. this year could be a great year compared to next year if we lose meeks and patterson. i see joh hood play a lot but he will be in a differant world like miller it will take him time. daniel coming back from his leg rehab and not playing could take this kid a while. look at patterson it took him three or four game before he was the player he was last year. everyone that want BCG gone who would you want to come in ?
Random Rambling Responses or RRR
The Rich Brooks truck is hilarious and the comments people have made are very funny… Great find Tru…
I am heading to the game tonight so I will see what kind of inside scoop I can get from some of the insiders on BCG and company…
I like the John Clay writing about the last two plays… Neither one made any sense to me at all either…
I predict Liggins will transfer… I cannot imagine a top recruited player and a coach continuing with this type of relationship if stuff like this is true…
I did not see the U of L game but I did see the interview with Coach Calhoun at the end… He comes across a little better then BCG does in those type of situations… I still think BCG is an @$$ but that does not mean he cannot coach or be successful at Kentucky…
ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"
Grand Canyon
Watching the two ESPN games confirmed a few things in my mind but particularly one regarding UK: the talent chasm, nay, Grand Canyon that separates UK from the other elite programs, a group which both UConn and KU currently belong. Huskies talent level is not unexpected since they’ve had a season or so to rebuild after early departures, but KU is surprising since they lost 8 players from NC team but have rebuilt to a great extent and are overachieving with an 18-4 record and undefeated in Big 12 (noticeably superior to SEC) and with a very young but quite talented team. As a 50+ year Cat fan I am appalled that 60% of UK’s starting lineup would have a difficult time making the roster of either Huskies or Jayhawks.
Stevenson Was RECRUITED BY Kansas
And Gillispie chooses the starting lineup.
Kansas, UConn, UNC, and Duke recruited VERY FEW of the 1996-97-98 UK rosters. Very VERY few of them.
And yet, those years turned out OK too.
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