Morning Newspaper for February 19th

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 19, 2009 9:02 AM EST in News Comment 77 comments

The big news this morning is, as if by magic, UK finds itself tied again for the lead in the SEC East. That's right, all three leaders in the East have lost so far this week, and once again UK, Florida, South Carolina and Tennessee are tied with identical 7-4 records.

Kentucky Basketball News

"Gillispie gave no hint as to when Patterson will return, but many observers see him coming back against Tennessee on Saturday." Boy, I sure hope so.
"If Billy Gillispie didn't already believe his offense relies too heavily on Jodie Meeks, he does today ..." Well, you'd think the author could have taken note of the fact that Kentucky's #2 scorer was on the bench with injury. I never have though too much of Yoni Cohen's blog, and now I remember why.
" We're making some mistakes where guys go to the wrong spots." How many times have we heard this? What the heck does it take to get people in the right spots? Do they even know where the "right spots" are? If you can figure out any of those answers from this article, please tell me.

Burning questions that will likely remain unanswered.
The Mickey D's for 2009. A Louisville player makes it, but none of UK's do.
Here's a guy who doesn't think much of John Clay's article that I praised yesterday.
A pro vs. con view of Billy Gillispie.

Kentucky Football/Other Sports News

Matt Jones discusses UK's ill-conceived football schedule of next year. Isn't football in the SEC tough enough without the UK athletic department making it harder? That move of the Louisville game to the third week is not looking like such a bright idea next year, and I suppose those of us who defended the idea have no real right to complain. The 'Cats are just going to have to man up.
Chris Rusin is finally healthy, and ready to lead the baseball team to another outstanding season.

NCAA Basketball News

Mississippi State eeks by South Carolina. More here.
Ole Miss defeats Tennessee. Great -- now the Vols will be mad as heck on Saturday. I hope we will too, we darn sure should be. More at Rocky Top Talk.
Penn State takes down Illinois at Champagne.
Butler bites the bullet at Milwaukee.
Pac-10 officiating is getting a lot of heat from the fans, and the coaches. Will the SEC crews be next?
Arkansas has refused to be forthcoming about why Marcus Monk was dismissed, and the newspapers are not happy about it.
SEC Power Poll Round Table roundup for your viewing pleasure.
This blogger makes a defensible argument for eliminating the play-in game, but doesn't offer a suggestion on how to solve the problem that necessitated it's creation.
The Loathsome Troll Jeff Goodman says that you can toss all the teams below the top 4 in a hat. I hate to agree with him, but I must.
Why Duke won't make the Final Four in the next five years. Heh. Duke loathing is so good for the soul.
Mike Miller has some tournament tremors for us.
Rush the Court looks at the status of teams in various conferences.

NCAA Football News

The Liberty Bowl is in trouble with the Feds for not complying with the Americans With Disabilities Act, and has until 2010 to make $40 million dollars worth of improvements. Memphis may have problems in this economy with finding the money necessary.
What if Lane Kiffin was't the spoiled, out-of-control brat he appears to be?

Other News of Interest

The recession is hitting some college athletics departments hard.

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Comments

Penn St - Illinois

I didn’t get to see this game and I’m glad I missed it. Talk about setting the game back 50 years (literally – it was Penn St.‘s fewest points in a win since 1952 and Illinois’ fewest points since 1947). Penn St. had an OffEff of 68.3 and Illinois was at 59.3 – ick!

As for the Play-In game, the simplest, best, and most logical solution is to eliminate an at-large berth. Major Conference teams already have enough built-in advantages when it comes to making the tournament, they don’t get to complain if they don’t make it.

I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra

by JLeverenz on Feb 19, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

SEC lacks consistency

Boy does it ever! There is only one team that seems to be playing their game right now is LSU. Outside of that we have a slew to teams beating up on each other and no way to tell who’s going to better who on any given night. There are so many young teams with inexperienced players and I think that’s the story of our league this year.

by slidemank on Feb 19, 2009 11:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

agree about the Yoni Cohen blog

I’ve heard that it is a supposedly beloved college basketball blog, but on the occasions I’ve visited, it seemed pretty blah and insight-free, and I wondered what the fuss was about.

by blue kentucky girl on Feb 19, 2009 11:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

My Thoughts

on the SEC this year is simple – teams are just losing; all of them (with the exception of LSU). No rhyme or reason. “Good” teams and “bad” teams. Just losing – and winning – at random. Win a big game here. Lose to a team that they shouldn’t have there. My point is that it is not just Kentucky that this is happening to – it is all of them (again, exception to LSU). As for the NCAA tournament – I am not worried. I say we get in. Some teams from the SEC have to be selected, so why not Kentucky?? I mean, they havent really been any worse or more inconsistent than any other SEC team this year. I am just not worried about it. And those are my thoughts….

by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 19, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Works for me!

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 19, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mickey D All-Americans

I see that the rich (UNC) keep getting richer.

Yet another reason why I dislike the Tar Heels so much.

by tooblue on Feb 19, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

McD A-A

UK signed 3 in 1979. 2 each in 1980, 82, 83. Then 3 more in 1984. 1 each in 1985, 86, 87. And 2 in 1988.

That’s 16 in 10 years. UK made 1 FF and won 0 NC in the 1980 thru 92 timeframe (13 years) with these McD A-A recruits.

UK then signed 0 in 1989, 90, 91. But 2 in 1992, 0 in 1993, 1 in 1994, and 2 in 1995. Again 0 in 1996, 97. Plus 1 in 1998.

That’s 6 in 10 years. UK made 4 FF and won 2 NC in the 1990 thru 2002 timeframe (13 years) with these McD A-A recruits.

I don’t think it really matters.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

guess it depends on the coach :)

by memphis wildcat on Feb 19, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not Really

Same coach who was 82% in 1990’s is 72% in 2000’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Great Info

How many have we signed since 1998?

by tooblue on Feb 19, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

7 More

Bogans, Stone in 1999.

0 in 2000.

Carruth in 2001.

0 in 2002, 2003.

Morris, Crawford, Rondo in 2004.

0 in 2005, 2006.

Patterson in 2007.

0 in 2008, 2009.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Possible Selection Bias?

14 of the 24 are going to ACC or Big East schools
1 to the SEC (Fla) and 0 to the Big 10
19 of the 24 are from states that touch the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans.

I’m no statistician, but this does not appear to be a random (unbiased) distribution.

Don’t people in the Heartland eat hamburgers?

by Fortunatus on Feb 19, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Population Demographics

Pretty easy to understand: basketball (unlike football) is a primarily urban sport + most urban areas are on the coasts = greater basketball population and talent pool; basketball is primarily an African-American sport + coastal areas have a larger portion of African-Americans = greater population and talent pool. As for ACC/Big East dominating college choices it is an example of either — depending on your perspective — a vicious cycle or virtuous circle: increased media exposure to larger cohort group brings better players yearning for media presence resulting in increased exposure, ad infinitum.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

NO Doubt

Neil Fingleton (UNC recruit) was McD A-A.

Jamal Mashburn (UK recruit) was not.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice Fact

by LyricSmith on Feb 20, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2009 5*

Daniel Orton

by Wild Weasel on Feb 20, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

He didn’t play (at all) in 2009 so he is likely to drop below Top 25 status in final rankings.

Mashburn wasn’t 5 Star in 1990 until the final rankings that spring.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fallacy

Without targeting individual players some kids are MCD AA becuase they sign with a particular school not becuase they are actually great. Can anyone tell me that jodie meeks is not one of the top players in his class.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 19, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess Coach K...

didn’t submit his recruiting roster in time to get more of his recruits named Mickey Ds.

by hoboat33 on Feb 19, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We

better be mad as heck to!

by tenken on Feb 19, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is Quod Ut

A little bit of this, a little bit of that:

Optimistic Kat is dead on target in his critique of John Clay especially his comments on the lack of a point guard. But then UK hasn’t had an effective college performer at the 1 in years.

Likewise ArnoldNiner pretty much nails the situation in his Gillispie yea’s and nays.

One shouldn’t overlook the probability that Daniel Orton would have been a Mickey D had he played. Neither should one neglect the link between Mickey D’s on the roster and national championships.

Of the 4 elite teams it is essential to note that all returned a majority of their starting lineups from last year.

On the subject of Duke’s recent disappointments and the projection of a continuation, new Attorney General Eric Holder recently had this to say about race in America:

“Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards,”

He has a point and sportswriters/bloggers are among the worst practitioners. Anyone surely cannot mistake the usual euphemisms: athletic and speedy, etc. for their real meaning — African-American. Translating InGameNow writer Harrington: Duke isn’t and won’t be as successful because they have too many white players.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

PG

Rajon Rondo in 2005 and 2006 was very effective PG. “…in years…” equals 3 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Effective?

Effective defined as: producing or capable of producing an intended result or having a striking effect.

I don’t think Rondo produced (although he may have been capable with better coaching) the intended result and certainly didn’t have any striking effect.

Numbers are mediocre for an elite, even effective PG: 285 Assists – 148 TO’s = 1.9:1 Ratio. Less than 10 PPG. Team record: 50-19 .724. Final 8 in 05, Round of 32 in 06. Not on All-SEC 1st team, no All-American honors.

I must admit that my visual impression of Rondo is primarily anecdotal and comes from watching him live only once: January 2006 in Allen Fieldhouse, KU 73 – UK 46. I remember Rondo multiple times standing between 3-point line and center court, sometimes tom-tomming the ball, other times holding in one hand behind his back. The KU fan I was with commented to the effect: What an athlete! Now if he only knew what to do with it. He ended with 9 points, 3 assists, 2 turnovers and not once did he ever get his team into any simulation of an offense. Of course, that was fairly typical of the Smith offense at the time.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rondo VERY Effective

As frosh PG led his team to 28 W and 2 OT (refs’ whistle) from FF.

Equally good as soph PG. Best 2 year PG numbers EVER at UK. Double them and he is the best 4 year PG ever at UK.

I realize your Anti-Tubby Bias. Let it go. Rondo was a damn good PG as frosh and soph.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Too good

I always kind of thought that Rondo was too good for the players around him. He is clearly an NBA talent and I think he is playing better with better players around him if that makes sense. Im not saying that his UK teammates were bad at all or not deserving of playing college ball. Im just saying I think Rondo was a cut above them.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 19, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember Rex Chapman...

who I believe was a scout for the Timberwolves say of Rondo in his last year at UK… and I paraphrase, “He has everything that you can’t coach, i.e., hustle, defensive tenacity etc., and what he is weak at, we can teach him, i.e., shooting”. He was at best a sub-par perimeter shooter for UK with an uncanny ability to drive the lane, but not now. He has firmly made me a believer in the fact that shooting can be taught and isn’t something that is just inherent in a player.

I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!

by sleepytimetea on Feb 20, 2009 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're correct

Shooting absolutely can be taught. It’s a myth that shooters are born and not made. If you’re interested check out a shooting coach who has trained NBA players to be better shooters, www.swish22.com I’ve used this guys techniques and they work, I’m teaching my son to shoot using his method and it’s working really well.

by Danvillecat on Feb 20, 2009 6:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Shooters

There has never been a Natural shooter. Maybe Pete Maravich is an exception.

Always been a learned skill honed by Practice, Practice, Practice. 1000’s of shots daily.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Jodie Meeks did not get where he was by nature, but by practice.

He was a good free throw shooter his first year, but he was just a decent shooter otherwise. Now, he is amazing.

If you have a really broken shot that you have used for years, a la Wayne Turner, it’s really hard to fix. But if your basic form is sound, fixing it is merely a matter of instruction and practice. Even that demented thing Turner used got more effective with practice.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 7:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Turner

Averaged 40 ppg in HS with that shot.

But he played at small, private school in Boston. Not much competition.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 7:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

And it got pretty efficient later in his career at UK, too.

But it was still a demented motion. Ugliest I have ever seen in a guard.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 7:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I offer you T-Will

He couldn’t shoot a lick coming into the program…and he has improved dramatically this year. They talk often on how they broke down his shot and completely rebuilt it.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Feb 20, 2009 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point.

He has improved quite a bit. His shot wasn’t as broken as Turner’s but he did put some weird kind of side-spin on it or something.

Much better now.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like the Tiger swing, eh?

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Feb 20, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd add

not just practice, perfect practice. The form needs to be broken down and learned correctly. Only then does the player needs to put in the reps. 25 shots with perfect form are better than 500 with bad form.

It almost makes me think that if a college basketball coach could do like the football coaches do and redshirt every incoming freshman and hire a shooting coach to teach them to shoot with good form in the long run it would pay off in spades. It would be like going back to the old JV teams when freshmen weren’t eligible. Liggins and Miller would both have been better off in the long run if they could have spent this year in the weight room and working on their shooting form. A 5-10% increase from the field and a 10-20% increase from the line is not an unreasonable expectation. Think about what it would have done for Perry Stevenson, maybe 10-15 pounds of bodyweight and increased confidence and capability in the 15 foot shot that people are daring him to shoot?

Of course I realize it’s just a pipe dream given the realities of today’s game.

by Danvillecat on Feb 20, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree on Perry

There’s no way that guy packs on 10-15 pounds. You know the trainers are putting all their knowledge to finding ways to pack on the pounds. Specialized diets. Training regimens. You name it… I guarantee they’ve tried it. He’s basically in the same boat as Walter McCarty. They tried and tried and tried to pack pounds on his frame and never could.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Feb 20, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

I think that’s right. His metabolism is just too high. As he gets older and it slows down some, he may gain weight, but right now, there just isn’t enough time in the day for him to safely ingest enough calories to put on significant weight.

Metabolism really matters, and some people’s metabolism is just too high to overcome by packing in calories.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

He can’t pack on any weight because he’s spending too much time and energy playing basketball. It’s hard to put weight on a skinny guy when they run as much as they do at KY. That’s why I said he needed to be redshirted. He would need more rest than he’s getting now. If you remember McCarty set out his freshman year due to Prop 48.

The idea that they couldn’t put weight on McCarty is wrong. He never got to be what you’d call beefy but he did put on significant amounts of weight.

From an interview with Shaun Brown, strength coach at UK during that time:

Q. Who was your biggest rags-to-riches success story?

A. A kid that always sticks out for me is Walter McCarty at Kentucky, who went on to a long career in the NBA. When he came in he was 6-10, and 170 pounds. He left at 237. Even after putting on all that weight, he still ran a 4:48 mile.

Source: http://hamptonroads.com/node/204161

by Danvillecat on Feb 20, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perry

This wieght issue with Perry is tiresome. Some kids just arent going to put much more wieght on their frame no matter what you due. Does anyone remember a player named Tayshuan Prince? Him and Stevenson have very similar builds.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 20, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

weight

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 20, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jealous

I just know I am TOTALLY jealous of Perry’s metabolism then! ;)

by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 20, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Natural Ability

I agree shooting is learned. However, there are natural abilities and traits that make shooting come easier or harder for some. Eyesight to see three-dimensionally. Hand-Eye coordination. Having hands that are too large makes shooting more difficult (like Shaq or Rondo). It’s like musical ability, no one is born knowing how to play but having been born with talent makes it come easier. WIth that said, one of the best players I have ever known was told in school that he would never be any good and should not pursue a career in music. There is something to be said about desire.

by LyricSmith on Feb 20, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you happen to notice his steals numbers?

Rondo may have been the best defensive point guard in the history of UK basketball, even in two years. On the ball, he was just good, but away from the ball, he was a holy terror. Set the steals record at UK in his first year, and did very well his second in that category. As a pure point guard, Rondo was quite likely the best to play at UK in the last 20 years at least.

I am still of the opinion that Clff Hawkins was the best on the ball defender I ever saw, but Rondo was very close.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 6:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fond Memories

of the two Ky players in the backcourt during that time, Rondo and Sparks. Yes, Rondo was a pure point guard. Sparks a pure shooter. They played well together. I can recall some Rondo steals that led to some pretty two-on-one breaks.

by LyricSmith on Feb 20, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I loved it when Sparks drove then lane as well.

Heh.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Feb 20, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

McD A-A On Roster And NCAA Titles

0 on 1978 roster. (McD A-A first named in 1977)

4 on 1996 roster.

1 on 1998 roster.

Matters little. No team has won more than 3 NCAA titles since 1978.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Only Cats & Terps

Since McDonald’s A-A team instituted only 2 teams in 31 championships haven’t had at least one Burger Boy: UK 78, MD 02. I predict string will continue.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1 McD A-A

Syracuse 2003. UConn 2004. To name 2.

Parade A-A have MUCH greater impact. Parade picks Top 40 players regardless of HS class.

McDonalds picks the Top 24 HS seniors.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gillispie Has Signed 2 McDonalds A-A In 7 Recruiting Classes (2003 Thru 2009)

Don’t hold your breath if you think he’ll sign lots of McDonald A-A recruits. Never has (yet).

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

I’ve thought a lot about this topic and I think there are some pretty good reasons why you’re right. The same thing that worked against Pitino in the pros will work against Gillispie. The pros knew they didn’t have to put up with Pitino’s BS. They could just go somewhere else, not work nearly as hard, and draw the same salary. With the burger boys, they know they can go anywhere in the country they want so why put up with Gillispie? They only plan on staying a year or two anyway before jumping to the NBA (at least in their minds………). Plus, word gets around on the AAU circuit. All of these guys know each other from tournaments and exhibitions. If you don’t think they compare notes on coaches you’re mistaken. I’m sure when they hear about how hard he works them they’re not going to be beating the door down to KY.
Their mentality is more like the seasoned pros than high school players in the old days. They’ve been squired around and treated like royalty since they were in junior high. Why go to a college where you’ll be worked like a government mule, especially when it looks like it’s going to be a rebuilding type situation, and you have the option of going anywhere you want.

The top recruits these days don’t appreciate UK’s legacy the way the UK fans do. Most of the fans would give their right arm to play at UK, it’s not the same with this generation of players. It’s what can you do for me, and what a school can do for them is get them exposure until they get in the league and start drawing the big paychecks.

by Danvillecat on Feb 19, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You don't think the FOUR McDonalds AA appreciate UNC's legacy??

I don’t think that today’s kids are that self centered. I think it is inarguable that UNC and KY are at the top when it comes to history, legacy, fans, etc. Therefore, it’s fair to ask what the real difference maker is….it may be the coach. Everything else is relatively equal. Concerning….

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Feb 19, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Far From Equal

UNC — and Duke, KU, UCLA, UConn too for that matter — may be equal to UK in your mind but I would assert that is not the case when you consider teenage males, and particularly those who are basketball-focused. UK’s last appearance in The Final Four was last century, literally and, more important, figuratively for the attention-span-challenged youth. Adolph Rupp and Joe B. Hall are pre-historic; Rick Pitino has coached UL forever. Fact is UK was allowed to fade from the flash and dash of college basketball for years. Mitch Barnhart had the managerial and public relations acumen to recognize it and publicly urged his coach to rectify it. When it didn’t happen a change was made. Whether the choice was correct is up for question but UK has gotten more media exposure in last two years than in previous five. Granted not all of it positive but there is a PR axiom: bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. I perceive it to be a net positive.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If what you say is true...

…then it will take a lot longer for UK to catch up.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Feb 19, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's NOT True

It’s pure, unadulterated Anti-Tubby Smith propaganda.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Forty ...

… you don’t have to defend Smith against every perceived slight. How about letting one or two go by unchallenged? Good grief.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 6:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Have NO Problem With Fair Criticism

But every player brought to UK from 1998 through 2007 is not a bad player.

Every team in that timeframe is not a bad team.

It’s 2009. If there were bad players in 2007, they should have been sent packing and new, better ones brought in to replace them.

That hasn’t happened (yet).

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100%

All I’m saying is that it’s not necessary to take every BS remark to task. Sometimes it better just to let it hang out there and be ridiculed by others.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 7:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tubby

Forty the vast majority of us agree with you but
IMO the defending to Tubby is as tiresome as the the negative slight toward Tubby. Its so done with.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 20, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tubby Schmubby

It’s UNFAIR to say things like Rondo Wasn’t A Great PG because Tubby didn’t make FF.

That’s ridiculous. Rondo was a great PG at UK.

Dan Issel never made FF but he is the greatest Wildcat ever.

Cotton Nash never made FF either.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not commenting on coaches, but

there is at least one grain of truth in there. Pitino has been with UofL since 2001, when our current recruits were anywhere from 8-10 years old. They simply don’t really know or care about the Pitino or earlier years with Kentucky. They don’t remember Pitino or Tubby’s NC’s.

All they know are the mid- to late Tubby years (which I was fine with for the most part, I was and am a Tubby supporter, etc.). The fact of the matter, however, is these kids are aware of UK in two Elite 8s: 2003, when they were 10-12 years old, and 2005, when they were 12-14 years old. They saw no UK Final Fours in that time period, and a run of bad NCAA tournament appearances. These kids just don’t care about Rupp, Hall, Sutton, and Pitino. They care how a team has been doing since they’ve been aware of that team – and UK hasn’t been the shining start in those years. It does have an effect.

And yes, UK had some good/great conference runs in that time period, but these young, middle and high school age kids aren’t really paying attention to who wins the SEC. They’re paying attention to who does well in the tournament, year after year. UK’s history might have an effect on what their coaches and parents say to influence them, but that’s about it.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Feb 20, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UK Remains One Of The Top 5 Programs

Just like it has been since the 1960’s.

UK was #1 in 1940’s and 50’s but Top 5 since.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Using What Criteria?

Not poll rankings. Not NCAA performances. Not computer rankings. Not recruiting. Not TV ratings. Can’t prove it’s true (neither can it be disproved) but from all indications not top-of-the-mind awareness for recruits. The only aspects in which UK is top 5 in last 5 years is attendance and in the hearts of BBN.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 20, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Most W, Best W-L Record, Most W In NCAA, Best W-L Record In NCAA

The last 2 years (2008 and 09) have hurt in those categories.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't neccessarily agree

UNC suffered a much worse season than could ever be imagined at UK a few years back and that didn’t effect their recruiting… and boy was it publicized. Kansas, until last year, was known as the choke artists of the NCAA tournament… don’t bet on them, they’ll lose. Duke is Duke and is hands down the most dominant program of the last 25 years, but echoing a previous quote, they get a different type of athelete there. I don’t even think it’s race related, after all, Shane Battier had a double major. I think they actually are dual minded at DUKE and care about acedemics. Is it any wonder that Coach K. is Bobby Knight’s protege? UCLA has made a couple runs, but I wouldn’t say that they are anything better than Kentucky when speaking in terms of of the past decade. UConn is the same… maybe less so.

I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!

by sleepytimetea on Feb 20, 2009 3:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UNC Was Off The Radar For A Few Years, Too

The other (WW) comments are directed at Tubby Smith, not the UK situation.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UK Had #1 Record In 2003-04-05

And earned (2) #1 seeds and (1) #2 seed those years.

It is laughable to posit that UK wasn’t part of the Flash And Dash of college basketball.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Please ...

… stop with the implicit Smith derision. Just please stop.

Regarding McD’s — Daniel Orton would have surely been one had he not gotten injured. He is unquestionably one of the top 24 players in the land, and before his injury, was top 10. Jon Hood was just on the cusp, and many thought he might get chosen, but he didn’t.

This emphasis on McD’s is unhealthy, and there is a political undercurrent to them. We often see recruits from certain schools suddenly increase in ranking after they choose a UNC or Duke rather than before. This is understandable, but it is also a bias that should be taken into account.

The bottom line is, the McD angst is stupid, in my opinion. Outside the top five or six, you can throw the next 25 or 30 into a hat.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Feb 20, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UK's Best Decade Since The 1940's

Was accomplished with the fewest McDonalds A-A (6 total on roster in the 1990’s) of any since McD A-A teams were first named in 1977.

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UTEP And A & M

Gillispie’s stops prior to Lexington were at El Paso (aka Juarez North) and College Station neither of which are alluring to top ballers, thus his likelihood of inking a Mickey D is remote. That he had even one is rather astonishing.

by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MCAA's

I think that statistic is misleading. There’s 20 something MCAA’s each year. If most of them go to differennt teams that appx 20 something teams they are on multiplied each year by a new class coming in. Im betting most of these guys are going to strong teams so that a pretty big field of teams able to win the tourney and say they had a MCAA on the team. I dont think its a great indicator of a championship program.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Feb 19, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you

are totally right about this

by tenken on Feb 19, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Talent Matters

At least one former McDonald All American player was part of every title between 1979 and 2002. The streak ended one year in 2002 but restarted on 2003. Just like the 2007 NCAA Championship teams, the 2008 Championship teams had multiple players get selected in the 2008 NBA Draft and at least 3 were McD AAs. I could not find the stats, but I am going to guess that in 2004-2007, I’d find similar results.

With all that said, stealing talent like the Hambugler is easy. Finding it outside the obvious places may be more important. I’ll take an Athony Epps at point with a side of fries please!

by LyricSmith on Feb 20, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Parade A-A (Since 1960)

At least one Parade A-A was part of every NCAA champion but 1963, 1966, and 2002.

Parade is a better predictor (46 of 49) than McDonalds (29 of 31).

by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2002?

So they both missed on 2002? I suggest there is one more piece of math to do in the modern age. All Americans who stay past the point of dominance. For Carmello Anthony for instance it was one year. North Carolina having some of their AAs stay that one extra year was big. If Jodie and Patrick stay one more year, look what that would do for Kentucky.

My formula is Banner chances in a 100 = Number of All-American Squared X the number of years they stay X 1/2 the number of quality four year roll players + Coaching ability / 10 X (Heart + Desire+pride). :-)

by LyricSmith on Feb 20, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs