Morning Newspaper for February 18th
by Glenn Logan on Feb 18, 2009 9:30 AM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats News
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Another trip to Nashville, another depressing result. Of course, I do think a lot of UK fans were laboring under the delusion that we could beat a bunch of SEC teams while our best all-around player healed his wounds. I think the fallacy of that thinking has now been exposed. But this is the news, not a mournful commentary on last night.
And so, we move on to the rest of today's headlines and hidden gems ...
Kentucky Basketball News
- Vanderbilt lives at the line.
- Lance Goulbourne (who?) was a big key in Vanderbilt's win over UK.
- Kentucky at Vanderbilt as it happened, for all you masochists out there in the Big Blue Nation.
- "I didn't think I played very well at all," was Perry Stevenson's blunt self-assessment after three points and two rebounds in 23 minutes. What was your first clue, Perry?
- Gillispie's post-game audio.
- Post Vanderbilt thoughts.
- Meeks needs more help. Yeah.
- Kentucky's NCAA resumé takes a hit. No doubt. We need Patterson back in the worst way.
- And The Valley Shook (LSU) looks at UK. They'll be in Rupp Arena on the 28th.
- Eric Crawford says that the 'Cats have weathered about as much of an absence from Patterson as they can stand. I think he's right.
- Gillispie says the offensive execution, particularly in the second half, was nonexistent. I agree, coach. What are you going to do about that?
- Evan Hilbert at KSR has some thoughts.
- Pat Forde: Strech-run story lines.
- Kentucky: Team or one man show? Umm... how about, "duet?" We sure hit a sour note as a solo act last night.
Kentucky Football/Other UK Sports News
- Anything But Gatorade disposes of an article I found yesterday but refused to link due to its vapid nature. I'm glad, because ABG does a much better job than I could have.
- This article out of Las Angeles talks about what a big catch wide receiver Chris Matthews is for UK. He looks like a big-time player to me.
- Kentucky men's golf is doing well, finishing second in a tourney down in Florida.
NCAA Basketball News
- Where do SEC teams stand with respect to the NCAA tournament? Well, I think that might be due for some revision.
- Michigan State is handled at Purdue.
- Kansas is just reloading.
- Tyler Zeller is healed and ready to play.
- Seth "I'm so pretty, who needs a brain?" Davis dazzle's us with his bloviation.
NCAA Football News
- Two BCS championships are not enough for Tim Tebow. He's changing the world!
- Will Texas Tech fire Mike Leach? That would be a heck of a story.
Other News of Interest
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UK is still in a good spot in regards to tourney bid
Bottom line: UK went 1-1 on the road without their best player. Last night hurt, but I don’t think it hurt quite as much as other people seem to believe simply due to the absence of Patterson. Tru, I know you mentioned that previously, but I think the NCAA committee will put stronger consideration to that fact than you indicated on the PM.
UK has a tough stretch coming up and they need to perform in these last five games, but that would be the case even if they had beaten Vanderbilt last night. – nothing has changed since yesterday morning with what UK needs to do to make the tournament.
The Cats have the chance to pick up some quality wins down the stretch: Tennessee (18), LSU (41), South Carolina (40), and Florida (45) are all top 50 RPI teams. If UK goes 3-1 against them and beats Georgia they will pick up some top 50 wins (assuming those teams stay in the top 50 which I think is a good bet) and will greatly improve their RPI and SOS. – important factors for tournament qualification.
As a side benefit UK would probably get a top 2 seed in the East which would help them in the SEC tournament and give them a chance to pick up a few more wins.
I want to again stress that UK would have needed to do the above things even if they had beaten Vandy last night. The Vandy defeat is not going to cost UK a tournament berth, just seeding.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
I very much concur with you.
In my opinion, in order the solidify a tournament spot and a so so seed, we need to be perfect at home (we’ve lost too many at home this season), which means handling Tennessee, LSU, and Georgia. Losses at USC and at Florida would not be bad losses, but nevertheless we really need to up a W in at least one of those games.
My hopeful prediction, with a dose of reality:
W vs. Tennesee
W vs. LSU
L at USC
W vs. GA
W at Florida
This puts us in a good position for the SEC tournament to pick up a few more wins, and gives us a regular season record of 22-9 (11-5), which is pretty solid.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
I See Anywhere From 0 L To As Many As 4 L
If Patterson is healthy and UK regains confidence, the Cats can run the table.
If not, 4 L (all but Georgia at home) are possible.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 18, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I admire your optimism...
and the optimism of others who post regularly on this site. However, it appears that even our beloved host has stopped drinking the blue kool aid and now realizes that this year’s team is just not that good. The next “realization” that most die hard fans need to accept is that this team is very unlikely to make the NCAA tournament this year. Calling us a “bubble team” at this juncture is wishful thinking, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does—as this site demonstrates all too often—lead to excesive disappointment, hand wringing, and calls for everyone’s head (from the AD down to the team mascot). As long as Porter and Harris continue to play significant minutes, and the team looks to the remarkably inconsistent Stevenson as its “third scoring option,” this team is just not good enough to compete on a regular basis with the top teams.
All that said, I do think we will be better next year. I still have blue-tinted dreams as well, you know.
You're overreacting to one loss
The team has had their ups and downs this year, that’s for sure. But this UK squad is talented enough to make the NCAA tournament. They are not as bad as they looked Tuesday just as they weren’t as good as they looked Saturday. The Return of Patterson will bring the inside game/rebounding back as well as add a much needed level of toughness. They’ve got 3 full days off (minus practice) to get rested up for big game against Tennessee, I expect them to come out firing.
They are not safely in the field right now, but anyone who thinks this UK team is below the bubble just hasn’t watched enough college basketball this season.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
I just cannot agree with you that
it is “very unlikely” that we make the tournament. We have a very good chance to do so still, and just as good a chance as Florida, Tennessee, or South Carolina. There is just a lot of parity amongst Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi State, and South Carolina, with the “bottom dwellers” not too far behind, and the current SEC darling, LSU, not that far ahead. For the most part, any team can beat any other SEC on any given day (as ‘Bama showed against Florida), especially talking about UK, UF, UT, MST, and USC. We beat Tennesee at Tennessee. We can beat them at Rupp. We beat Florida at Rupp. We can beat them at Florida. We lost to USC at Rupp, but we can beat them at USC. I’m not saying we will, but why assume now we can’t or won’t?
Are you getting my drift? No, four wins isn’t easy, and isn’t “likely” (and I’m not sure how we define “likely” – 51% chance or better? I would define as 80% chance or better) and we could find ourselves anywhere from 5-0 or 4-1 to finish the season or 2-3 or 1-4 to finish. It’s just folly to say we’re very unlikely to make the tournament – why are you assuming we’ll lose the rest of our games? We’ve won some good SEC games. Sure, we’ve lost some bad ones, but cmon. I look at it this way – we started 5-0, then went 2-4, now it’s time for another 5-0 run. I say win 4-5 more games, including the in the SEC T, and there’s a good chance we’re in. That puts us with at least 22 wins on the day the bids are handed out. We got in last year with 18.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
and by 'Bama I meant Georgia
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Take a deep breath...
I have not insulted your family. I just expresed my opinion that this team is not likely to make the NCAA tournament this year, just as you have expresed your opinion that they are likely to get in. Neither of us can predict with absolute certainty how the Cats will do down the stretch. Therefore, neither of us can claim to hold the factual “high ground” in this debate. Reasonable minds can differ, and I would never label your opinion, or the opinion of any other poster on this excellent site, as “folly.” Frankly, I hope that I am wrong and that you end up being right. I guess we shall soon see.
If I came on strong, that wasn't my intention.
I respect your opinion, and respectfully disagree. My apologies if it sounded like a personal attack – that surely was not my intention.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
apology accepted
I still hope you are right, as I live in Tampa and have secured sweet seats for the finals of the SEC tournament, where I hope to see our beloved Cats play and win.
Well, no matter what, the most secure way to find ourselves in the NCAAs
is to win the SEC T. Here’s to hoping you get to see blue from your seats.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Exactly what I was thinking
Forty is correct too – it is entirely possible for UK to lose all 4 of their non-GA games down this stretch. I don’t think it will happen, but it is possible.
4-1 down the stretch is important, as is at least one win in the SEC tournament.
At 3-2 things get dicey and UK likely would need at minimum 2 wins in the SEC tournament, maybe 3 if they don’t get a bye.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
From the "Meeks needs more help" article
I found Gillispie end quote interesting:
We didn’t play very smart, but we played extremely hard. We competed really hard; we just didn’t execute anything on offense. And then, when things went poorly for us, we didn’t execute anything on defense as well.
For too long Gillispie’s magical Pancea after losses was that his team need to play “tougher” His post-game insights mark a new shift in his coaching strategy, one directed more towards X’s and O’s. We’ll see if it reaps dividends.
I need to add that the upperclassmen on this team have been inconsistent at best or undergone a profound maldevelopment at worst. Porter, Stevenson, and Harris, for one reason or another, have been playing poorly. And of course this team has no seniors worth mentioning. It is difficult to rely on sophomores and other newcomers for the majority of supporting role for Meeks/Patterson. It is time for the juniors to step-up and take leadership of the team.
"Yeah, the guy wearing the $4,000 suit is holding the elevator for the guy who doesn't make that in four months. COME ON! "--GOB
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Feb 18, 2009 10:38 AM EST reply actions
Execution ALWAYS Determines W Or L
He’s right about that.
Execution, not effort, bring W more often than L.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 18, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions
You know who I blame for this?
Ashley Judd.
She shows up at Carolina – double digit L. She shows up at Nashville – double digit L. Notice a pattern here?
So, fortunately, I have a solution – she can come watch the game at my place. These are the sacrifices I am willing to make for the Big Blue Nation.
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!
after a nights sleep
i still do not feel better, but here are my thoughts:
- DEBATE IS OVER – clearly last night puts to rest the debate of if we are better off without patterson in the line up. yes Stewart did get the chance to step up, but stevenson (the enigma) obviously did not take anything away for the arkansas game. had he stepped up last night and we won, i might have said the break without PP was worthwhile – clearly it was not
- I think MEEKS is tired – he did not work as hard off the ball last night as he has. also shots were off. i am all for hard practices as they make you better down the stretch BUT the body needs time to heal and get stronger -
- yes i thought we got the short end of the calls but, again, i think some of the problem was that the guys footwork was slow and we allowed ourselves to get out of position just enough to get called for fouls. again, i think this points to a need for a day of rest here and there
- we are squarely on the bubble – go 3-2 here on out and we are in. anything else takes a run in the SEC tournament
by memphis wildcat on Feb 18, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions
I'm not sure I'd classify the
“debate” over whether UK is better without Patterson as ever getting out of bed. I mean, c’mon? Did anyone actually think we’re better without one of the best players in the country? No debate.
I can’t think of many that would think the time without Patterson was “worthwhile.”
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
will go back and look
i thought there was some talk about how something “good” might come of PP being out for a game or two on one of the ark threads (post morteum or game thread) – have not had time to go back and look – trying to make a living right now :) . maybe i misread it…
by memphis wildcat on Feb 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
No, you're right memphis
It was brought up somewhere here, and at KSR as well I think. My comments weren’t directed right at you, just more generally that IMHO it was a stupid “debate” from the start.
It was definitely discussed by some, however.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
thanks blbskue
guess by me saying it was over, you could have infered i thought it was a valid debate. meant to imply what you said – stupid from the get go…….
by memphis wildcat on Feb 18, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
3-2
I don’t think 3-2 will get UK in for sure. I’m thinking more like 4-1. Just don’t think 10-6 is good enough especially if others finish ahead of us.
I also still think the SEC will get 4,maybe 5 bids to the NCAA. Not 6-7 as in previous years. That’s why I think the 4-1 finish is needed to get in.
by maysvilleblue on Feb 18, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
your right
3-2 and I am going to be sweating if we don’t do some damage in the SEC tourney. 4-1 and I will be perspiring. To keep me from sweating at all….win out and then make semi finals or better in the tourney. Well, then I sweat the seed but oh well.
Seth Davis
set to live blog on KSR at noon Friday.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 18, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions
Fiddling with the site Tru linked yesterday
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
In fact
I want that as my wallpaper. Seriously. How do I modify it to look right on my screen?
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 18, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
That I'm not sure...
But if you go to the actual site http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/ you can actually order mugs and posters with whatever image you prepare. I haven’t gone that far yet with my playing around.
I think I published that to the public, so the file should be available. Its tagged under sports and named Toughness. Dunno what else to tell you from there.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Great
I tried it and it is all distorted and funky looking. I am SO not good at this stuff. Thanks anyway and it IS an awesome poster!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 18, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not-so-sweet Music (City)
While the result was not what we wanted, I did – as I always do – enjoy watching a game @ Vandy as I love the throw-back benches on the baseline. If I were coaching, I’d prefer it that way as you get to see the game North-South (the way it is played) rather than East-West.
(The goals are North-South and putting the ball in the basket is the name of the game.)
Also, it frees up prime seats for fans on the sidelines…though the way they have it at Vandy isn’t ideal with the raised floor blocking the view from the sides for folks really close to the action.
*
I’m getting nervous about the all-time wins mark. UNC has an outside chance at catching us depending on what each team does in conf. tourneys and Big Dance.
It would be a real shame if the Heels beat us to 2,000 wins.
*
Have any of you guys checked out www.FamousPhone.com ? It’s a site where you can order phone calls from well-known people and there are a number of UK greats on there, including Macy, Goose Givens and Sky Walker.
*
I think a 3-2 conference finish gets UK in the Big Dance assuming at least one win in the SEC tourney. 4-1 gets us in even with a 1st-round tourney loss. That Ole Miss loss really hurts…but it’s there. The VMI loss is bad but not terrible – those guys have had a good season…would like to see them get into the Dance, draw Duke…and shoot-out the Devils!
Go Big Blue!
- ‘Cat-’Dawg-Tribe
UK vs Duke
Would be interesting but only if Patterson is available. Duke would have no answer to him inside. Without PP,could be ugly.
Patterson would score 40 against Duke
The only thing that would prevent him from doing so would be the other guys not getting him the ball.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
UK-Duke
Good point, MaysvilleBlue. I’d also be concerned with how Porter would handle that pressure defense bringing the ball up the court.
But I think we could shut down Scheyer by putting one of our athletic guards on him…like LSU did by putting Tyrus Thomas on JJ Redick a few years ago in the NCAA’s.
Sparsi Sententia
Meandering musings on things Blue:
On the Vandy game — Setting aside the Memorial issue, mandatory since the venue is an annual occurrence, either adjust or forfeit. Setting aside the officiating issue, what other choice is there? It’s always an intractable part of any athletic contest. What remains? Coaches and players. I suppose an argument could be made that Stallings won the matchup versus Gillispie and it’s always less problematic to elevate the victor. If that is truly the case then I would suggest the reason be Stallings had the easier of the challenges, most assuredly in preparation. Which leaves only the on-court personnel and therein lies the ceour de les substancer. Without Patrick Patterson it is clamantly evident that the Dores (and several other SEC teams) are superior to the Cats. And, at the risk of being irksomely redundant, I again state Stevenson, Porter, Harris — 60% of UK’s starting lineup — should never have been awarded scholarships, plus you can add Stewart and, not that it matters, Carter. Early, and I emphasize early, indications are that the same might be true of Galloway and Harrellson. Point is 6 of 10 — 60% — of UK’s playing rotation are not talented enough for top level NCAA D1 competition and 2 of remaining 4 are freshmen; undeveloped freshmen when compared to other first-year players; the source of another topic of conversation. More dispiriting is that Stevenson, Porter, Harris will be back next year as seniors — not to mention Stewart as an upperclassmen — and doubtless to be relied upon as prime contributors.
So where does that leave us? In the same status as that of November: overachieve to win. Without Patterson a winless rest of the season is not out of the realm of possibility. With him 3-2 is excessively optimistic.
The future? — One need only look at the article on KU Reloading. What a contrast that demonstrates between an elite program (KU) and a once-elite program (UK)! Where one a NC team loses 8 players to professional play and reloads with barely a skipped beat and the other loses only 2 players from a one-win and gone team and actually loses ground. My how the mighty has fallen in a decade. My how much work remains to be done. One can only hope and pray Gillispie is up to the task.
UK Was 87-15 (#1 W-L Record In The Nation) In 2003-04-05
By my count, that’s a few years ago – not a decade.
UK was 200-70 (74) in the first 8 years of THIS decade. The same AVERAGE W-L () record of the 1960’s – 70’s – 80’s combined.
UK is 36-21 (63%) in the past 2 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 18, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
How Revealing!
Your bias is transparent in not noting that the UK was 44-25 in 2006-07.
by Wild Weasel on Feb 18, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
You said A Decade.
I said A Few Years Ago.
It’s clear who is biased.
Not I.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
uk did reload
i would have to say in time, galloway, miller and liggins will replace what we lost in crawford and bradley. problem is that we are thin in sr and jr ranks with talent (meeks excepted) to replace them first – the point is the reloading process is continual not immediate and the pipeline has to be filled
also, i know a freshman has contributed from time to time at uk in the past but it is normal that most are undeveloped the first year as hopefully the upperclassmen are so strong the freshmen do not play.
by memphis wildcat on Feb 18, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Beg To Differ
UK lost Crawford and Bradley plus Jasper. And Legion.
Liggins, Galloway, Miller do not replace them.
UK freshmen Jamal Mashburh, Rodrik Rhodes, Jared Prickett, Antoine Walker, Ron Mercer, Jamaal Magloire, Tayshaun Prince, Desmond Allison, Keith Bogans, Gerald Fitch, Jason Parker, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, and Rajon Rondo all started (at least part of the year) or contributed heavily as frosh.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough, but
my point was that you expect current junior and sophmores – and maybe a talented freshman – to replace your graduating seniors/transfers. Meeks is really the only player that was on the roster last year that has stepped up this year to replace what we lost.
also, your list of freshmen – as best I can recall – are mostly in separate classes. I would debate that only around half on your list contributed “heavily as frosh”. Derrick Rose at Memphis is the definition of contributed heavily that – in my opinion – is the exception.
my real point is this: to expect more than one freshman to contribute heavily in any given year is not realistic and that reloading is a process. until you are full of talent, bringing in great freshman is restocking.
perhaps i should not have titled my initial post saying we did reload because we are just restocking, but i do believe that BCG is bringing in players that will contribute everybit as much in their career as those you listed (maybe not as much as the elite ones like mashsburn, prince, walker, and rondo) but certainly as much as magloire, fitch and morris did over their time here.
and if he can bring in 2-4 players per year – over time as they mature – we will be reloading. i think this year’s freshman would meet that standard – maybe not exceed it, but meet it.
by memphis wildcat on Feb 19, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
UK Recruiting Classes In 1996 And 97
Became very subpar Junior and Senior classes in 2000 and 01.
Regradless UK won SEC both years. Won SECT and made Sweet 16 in 2001.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
UK Frosh On My List
Mashburn started all year. Rhodes and Prickett alternated starting all year. Walker and Mercer were 6th men. Ditto Prince. Bogans and Fitch started most of their (frosh) years. Parker started all year. Ditto Morris and Rondo.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Some Perspective
BG needs more time. He did not recruit Porter, Harris, or Stevenson. What he has done is sucked every ounce of talent out of these players. Our 2 superstars are a true sophomore and Meeks, who is a junior, but really is only playing for his second year. BG recruited Patterson and has helped him to develop into one of the best PF in basketball. Meeks is playing better than anyone in b-ball other than Griffin. Again, Meeks emerged under BG’s coaching. So we have 2 of the 5 pieces this year, and UK has managed to win 18 games and beat some good teams. Liggins and Miller have potential and have progressively gotten better. Galloway is emergin too. Next year, we have Orton (5-star) and Hood (four star) and Zollo (3-star). I feel that that Zollo is very underrated at this time. So, if Meeks and Patterson return. The starting lineup will include those Meeks – 4 star, Patterson – 5 star, Liggins – 4 star, Miller – 4 star, and possibly Orton – 5 star. Then you have Hood – 4 star as a backup, with Galloway, Stewart, Stevenons, and Zollo (who I think will emerge to be a very good “true” point guard). This means that Porter and Harris , for sure will see much less playing time. Stevenson may start initially, but that will change. Next year is the year UK needs to make vast improvment. So, save judgment until the end of the next year, because to be honest, UK has overachieved the last 2 years, which comes from good coaching. Yes at times BG frustrates me, but I understand too. He is learning too and learning how to coach for a great program in a tough era of college b-ball. Kids are leaving earlier every year and the talent is more spread around than ever. Things are not the same now as they were in the 90’s and that needs to be taken into account. Oh yeah, and 2 years from now we have another 5 – star coming, plus others. Just be patient.
Lane
Porter, Harris, Stevenson
Porter was recruited as back-up to Jasper and Meeks. He starts under Gillispie over his own recruits.
Harris was recruited as back-up wing. He starts under Gillispie over his own recruit.
Stevenson is a 2-time LA All-Stater and the all-time leading HS shotblocker EVER. Named to Roundball Classic as HS senior – very prestigious honor. Very talented player sought by many basketball schools. Texas, Ga Tech, LSU to name several.
Patterson was heavily leaning to UK in March 2007. Gillispie closed the deal but he was UK’s to lose.
Meeks would be a star no matter who was coaching UK.
I really wish people would stop pretending the former coach left no talent and the current coach brought in a bunch of it. Neither is true.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Problem is...
…we don’t have a good point guard. That’s the end of it. All the problems with turnovers, no plays being made, offense not being run, not getting the ball to our best players, teams being able to run these gimmick defenses on us, it all comes down to that.
We had one very good one (Jasper) but he’s gone. Blame Gillispie, homesickness, whatever for running him off, but the fact is, he’s gone. There are no other 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year UK players at that position, and that is what is hurting us. Liggins has tons of potential, but scant maturity and no experience. Galloway is also clearly not ready yet for serious division I play, though he tries hard and I like his play. Porter is just not a point guard, but he is a nice shooting guard reserve who plays the position without complaint – good effort and props to him.
The point guard is BY FAR the most important position in college basketball, and we just don’t have a good one this year. So we are going to lose a lot of games, and if we manage to get in the NCAA tournament, we won’t go far.
Furthermore, next year is not going to be that much better unless Gillispie pulls a miracle and signs John Wall. Villarino and Liggins are going to both need next year’s experience before we’re back where we need to be. I think we are going to be vastly better at the 3, and also at 4/5 if patterson stays, but it’s not going to be enough. So the best thing to do is just settle in, cheer for the cats and have some patience. We’ve got some good guys in the pipe and we’ll be fine in 2 years or so if Billy continues to get guys like Patterson, Hood, and Ferguson.
Go Cats!
I Actually Think Liggins Or Galloway Would Have Been Fine PG By Now
More PT early in the season would have contributed to both improving and becoming solid PG by now.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 19, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get it....don't they have practice everyday to get better?
I would suggest that the reason that Liggins hasn’t been the answer at point guard is not the fact that he hasn’t played much (which begs the question of when is enough, enough…but I regress). Instead I would suggest that either he doesn’t have the talent to get better and/or doesn’t have the coaching to get better. I’m thinking the former.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Everyone matures at a different rate
Some guys, like Patterson, come ready made to contribute. Liggins has taken a while. I agree with your point about practice. You practice to get better. Liggins has a clear and well-documented history of not buying in to the system (which is all about practice) so of course he is going to take longer if he isn’t practicing within the system. And clearly he also has had the Big Head that always keeps one from learning. It seems like this has stopped after the “vocal free-for-all” and he has actually started playing within the system. Of course that was only a couple of weeks ago, so that’s how much learning he has done. You can lead a horse to water, and all that..
And to FortyYearCatFan – hindsight is often 20/20 but on the other hand, you never know if Galloway would have turned from the turnover machine into the solid contributor he is now without the bench to motivate him. I think Liggins wouldn’t have improved to where he is today (which is finally getting better.) Also there is the argument that Gillispie is trying to win every game and is playing the players he thinks give us the best chance. Think about who played the majority of minutes at point guard in those 3 straight losses. It was Liggins. So that should indicate something.
Liggins Has Talent
So does Galloway.
Neither gets much PT it seems.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:21 AM EST up reply actions
No way
I dont know what games you are watching. Liggins is getting better I think fans just expected more out of him at the beginning of the season than he is capable of delivering. Its very clear to me that he has the physical tools and natural floor vision to be great at the position. I dont think people are aware of how much he has to learn. I think in high school he dominated players with his physical talent. I can see that he has a lot to learn and I can see progress from the beginning of the season. I think it may take him maybe another full season to really get it but I expect he is going to be a great pg the latter half of his college career.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
Liggins Reminder
I would remind fans that DeAndre Liggins is a player that is a special case and as such likely will require more time, more attention, more individual instruction in order to reach his full physical and mental potential. There is a plethora of data to substantiate that assertion.
by Wild Weasel on Feb 19, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not If He Went To Memphis
He’d be seeing PT and contributing greatly.
Calipari is a topnotch coach of talent like him.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 6:23 AM EST up reply actions
His coaching style
Suits for a run and gun guy like Liggins.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
"Not IF he went to Memphis"
First of all, that is a "what if" and you really can’t what if. ; ) You can’t say with absolute certainty what kind of PT Liggins would be receiving anywhere else because he didn’t go anywhere else, he came to UK. Maybe you meant that it was “your opinion” that Liggins would be getting more playing time if he had gone to Memphis???
And as far as Calipari being a "topnotch coach of talent like him" I’m not entirely sure what that is based on (maybe it’s what chirop says?) and I’m not sure if it is meant to imply that he isn’t receiving proper coaching now, but, I think what Wild Weasel was trying to say was that it isn’t the developing of Liggins’ talent that is the issue, but rather that when you coach you also have to deal with the fact that these kids are human and some may require a different and more complicated approach when it comes to coaching and teaching them.
Liggins' Style Fits Memphis Better Than UK
Liggins would be Runnin’ and Gunnin’ there.
Calipari is a great (NBA style) coach for guys like Liggins.
Not guys like Chuck Hayes or Gerald Fitch, for example.
Coaching STYLE is what I meant.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think WW's comments had more to do with
Liggins’ possible learning disability(ies) than physical potential. It really might just be harder for him to learn and understand the X’s and O’s. Not that he isn’t capable of it, but that he perhaps doesn’t pick it up as quickly as other players.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Good post…..
….that is essentially what I was trying to say, but I stopped short of using the term “LD” — I do have a bit of a soft spot for Liggins and I don’t really care to use a term like that if it isn’t a fact that it actually applies.
I suppose I try to write and admittedly sometimes over-word my posts with the idea in mind that who I’m writing about will actually read what I write and I guess I would rather be misunderstood a bit than hurt someone’s feelings. I should, however, learn to be less verbose. : )
Ha, well, I hesitate to use that terminology if not true as well,
but I just wanted to help clarify the intent. My wife specializes in teaching children with learning and behavorial disabilities, so I have learned to be very sensitive to that.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
I should add
that I have no idea whether Liggins truly has learning issues, but it has been discussed here and elsewhere. Learning disabilities often go hand in hand with behavorial disabilities, and this could explain why Gillispie tends to be a little softer on Liggins than he might be with other players (the refusal to enter a game comes to mind).
I went to watch my wife’s school’s elementary school game, where many of the players in the team have learning and behavorial disabilities. Some of those players had incredible talent and potential for their age (yes, my UofL friend joked that I must be a scout for Gillispie), but many had problems following the plays, often finding themselves out of position or taking ill-advised shots immediately after the coach had called a timeout to call a play.
Yes, these are very young kids, but 90% of the time an otherwise talented player continuisly was out out of position or running the wrong play, it was a player my wife later told me had those issues.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Whatever LD He May Or May Not Have
He played very well as Chicago HSer in 2006 and 07, then as Vegas (5th year) prep in 2008.
His LD may affect his academics but not his athletics.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Comments
For someone that goes on defense-rampage for any outright or inferred slight toward our past coach, sure makes quite a few of his own (some outright, mostly inferred) slights toward our current one. Just sayin….
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 20, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions
Fair Criticism Of ANY UK Coach Is Fine By Me
Gillispie is due a good share of it. Not EVERY Gillispie player is bad. Not EVERY recruit is bad.
Therein lies the difference.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
How Insightful
Congratulations, kentuckygirl0724, your perceptiveness is exemplary and appears to exceed that of many who visit here.
Gillispie Has EARNED Some (Most) Of The Negative Comments
His coaching has been subpar at UK so far.
63% W-L record (even the “terrible” years 2006 and 07 = 64% W-L record) so far.
Absolutely spot on the mark to criticize him. I know of no one happy with his performance to date.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 20, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
(I AM SO SORRY TUR) but I feel tht Tubby earned his fair share of fan criticism by those standards. Sure he won more games than Gillispie has thus far, but he was here far longer and did his fair share of down time. (Sorry 40) I’m just saying – I am SICK of people not being “allowed” to ever criticize the almighty Tubby in any way, shape, or form, but Gillispie has to take it from all sides and that is just “ok.” Its not fair and I dont like it.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 21, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
So Did Pitino, Sutton, And Hall (Earn Criticism) Even Rupp
Fair criticism of ANY coach is warranted.
Pitino, for example. Despite UK being at its peak of popularity and success in 1996 and 1997, he had 2 straight recruiting years that land classes NR in the Top 25.
When you are the #1 team, you should land top rated recruits. ESPECIALLY when there are 8 openings (over 2 years) of which 6 were major players drafted by the NBA. LOTS of PT was available.
Gillispie has done little (except nice 12-4 record in SEC last year) to earn much praise. Terrible OOC record in 2007-08 season. 1st round L in both postseason events last year. So-so OOC record this season. 4 L at home in Rupp Arena. 4 players transferred last year.
He is unproven. His results (so far) are subpar. He deserves any criticism he gets.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 21, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
You know,
I dare say that the not-so-subtle slights towards Coach Gillispie we are talking about in this case are actually recognized by quite a few. Just because some don’t feel the need to comment on them doesn’t mean that it goes unnoticed. Please don’t confuse peoples silence with stupidity. It’s just as insulting as the silly slights.
Personally, I am quite happy with Coach Gillispie but don’t feel the need to comment on every ridiculous negative comment directed at him simply because I feel that in the end, the man’s results will speak for themselves and I will be quite validated, thank-you-very -much. He certainly doesn’t need me to defend him at every turn.
Maybe So But No Evidence Yet
Subpar OOC and home game results at UK. Subpar postseason results. No conference titles at BCS level. No postseason conference tourney championships anywhere. Below .500 record in NCAA games.
Unproven. That word describes him best. Every other UK coach since Joe Hall had a more proven resume (prior to UK) than Gillispie had.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 22, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
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