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Kentucky Basketball: Rajon Rondo vs. John Wall After Ten Games

I thought it would be fun to take a look at how Rajon Rondo, now one of the great point guards in the NBA (and surely the best point guard UK had this decade until Wall came along) and John Wall compared after their first ten games as a Wildcat.

Any exercise like this is fraught with factors that simply cannot be properly accounted for, so take this for what it is -- a bit of fun.  I suspect a lot of Kentucky Wildcats fans have wondered how the two point guards compared.  Both had great starts as freshmen, both starting from the beginning of their time at UK.  But the coaching was different, the kind of game UK played under Tubby Smith and John Calipari are very different, and the way Smith and Calipari utilize their point guards is different. 

Statistics don't account for that, nor do they account for the skill of the players around them, or the quality of the competition.  So we can't take this comparison as holy writ about who was better, or would be better, or who is better in the role of Wildcat lead guard.  Still, it is a lot of fun to look at how they stack up against each other, and I think some people may be surprised.  In fact, as I write this, I have only completed one comparison, so I will be surprised as well.

Join me after the jump as we compare these two great UK players.

Star-divide

First off, these are "tempo free" stats so we don't have to worry about the fact that Smith tended to play a bit more deliberate game.  I will be charting assits%, turnover%, steals%, shot%, eFG%, offensive rebound% and free throw rate%.  That includes all the four factors, plus three others.

First, assists:

It seems that Rondo started out hotter in assists than Wall, but at around the fourth game, Wall takes over.  You can see that the trend right now favors Wall on this stat, and it's interesting that the flip coincides approximately with much better offensive play by this year's team, and a stretch where the 2005-06 team lost 2 of 4 games.

Second, turnovers:

In this chart, lower is better, of course, and I admit to being a bit surprised to see the trend this way.  Keep in mind that a lot of Wall's turnovers can be contributed to a faster pace of play, and even though we are using tempo-free stats, that factor isn't really accounted for here.  Despite the fact that the 2005-06 team is entering a dicey stretch of games, Rondo's turnovers certainly weren't the reason they were only .500 in that four-game stretch, as you can see by his trend.

Third, steals:

Rondo set the freshman record for steals in his first year, if I remember correctly, yet at this point, his trend had turned decidedly negative compared to Wall's.  Rondo had a couple of really poor games, versus North Carolina and Indiana where he managed no steals at all.

Wall, on the other hand, had two incredible games vs. UNC-Ashville and UConn where he had a very high steals percentage.  Can Wall outdo the great Rajon in this category?  He sure is on a nice trend right now.

Fourth, percentage of shots:

Wall and Rondo are fairly equal in this area, somewhat to my surprise.  It looks like the trend is up for Wall overall, but his last game was a big decline from his high in the UConn game, and represents his second lowest shot% so far this year.  At this point, Rondo was also coming off a recent high, which interestingly, was even higher than Wall's.

Fifth, effective FG%:

This is a wild one.  Wall is very consistent with his shooting, and has been all year long.  Rondo was all over the place, from a high of 81.8% to a low of 11.1%.

Based on what I have seen so far, I doubt we will ever see Wall lower than 35%.  I think this will wind up being fairly even over the course of the entire year.  Rondo took very few low-percentage shots, and so does Wall, but Wall tends to shoot more (and better) from the perimeter than Rondo did.

Sixth, offensive rebound %:

We all remember Rondo as a fantastic rebounder for his size, and it's obvious looking at this chart that his stats show that in spades.  I suspect, but can't prove, that the wild fluctuations in Rondo's stats were as much a function of his teammates has him, and I think the 2009-10 UK club is a much better offensive rebounding team overall than 2005-06.  That may be why Rondo's games are so often feast or famine, and Wall appears steadier.

Seventh, free throw rate%:

The final stat we look at is FTR%, and this one also surprised me a bit.  Rondo was getting to the line at a significantly higher clip at the 10-game point in 2005-06 than Wall is this year.  Part of that is due to the players surrounding him, but Rondo was very aggressive at taking the ball to the glass.

This is perhaps an area that Wall could improve upon.  Even in the UConn game, where Wall attacked the glass relentlessly in the second half, he only got to the line about as often as Rondo did on average.  It could be that Wall's speed has something to do with that -- you could sometimes catch Rondo on a run-out, but nobody can get close enough to Wall on most run-outs to touch him, let alone foul him.

So there we go, just a few gems to think about while we wait for the Austin Peay Governors game.  I like to compare players who have a lot in common, and Rondo has a lot in common with Wall in terms of athleticism, remarkable physical skills, passing ability, and the way they play the game.  I think Wall is the more mature player at this point, but Rondo was (and still is) freakishly talented, and has turned into one of the best in the NBA in his position.

I'm confident Wall will be, also.

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rondo vs wall?

Wall is a fantastic talent,to be sure, but Rondo as the comparison point? Cliff Hawkins was a better all around player, how about him? An even better comparison would be Wall against Wayne Turner and Kyle Macy. Wins vs losses, Turner is the greatest PLAYER in NCAA history, let alone point guard. Rings rank players, Rondo had none at UK, Wall has none either. If Wall does not win the NCAA tournament, none of this means anything.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 11:10 AM EST reply actions  

Fair point ...

… but how would you compare either of those two players in their first year as a Wildcat with Wall? Or Macy?

I wanted to compare the first ten games of two UK point guards who were both highly ranked and played from day one in recent history. Wall and Rondo are the only two players that meet that criteria. Hence, that’s why they were chosen.

Comparing a freshman to a senior may have its uses, but not for this exercise.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Macy

He was the reason that 1978 was a championship year. His PG skills were exemplary and he is/was a better FG and FT shooter than either Rondo or Wall.

Wall is the most talented of the three but Rondo not far off. Macy MAY be the best PG overall.

Wayne Turner was the LUCKIEST player in NCAA history but not the best.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Turner

Turner’s abilty to take any player, period, off the dribble directly led to the ’98 championship, and created the space neccesary for the other guys to hit the threes that beat Duke, and Utah. His mid-rangestop-and-pop jumper was deadly, comparing even to Macy, still the best shooter I have ever seen,including Reddick,et all.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Luckiest Meaning ...

He played on 1996-97-98-99 UK teams. Their cumulative talent, rather than his individual talent, were the reason for the large number of W those 4 years.

Turner was certainly PART OF the reason for 1998 title but hardly the main reason.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

i liked wayne turner

and believe he was a big reason for the success over those years – just do not remember ever thinking of him as a shooter – a great point guard though.

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Dec 17, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

turner

Only as a stop-and-pop mid-range shooter. Anything over 15 ft was iffy, hence his stlye of make plays first, shoot second.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

gotcha...

can see him driving and pulling up now..

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Dec 17, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Wayne Turner was the best PG I've seen at UK prior to Wall

Again, I was not born when Macy was here……so just in my lifetime. Turner’s abuse of Wojohadksdjadakdski was the single best performance in that great run that he had.

First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...

by btcoop71 on Dec 18, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

First year?

Hawkins could be compared.Turner contributed signifigantly to the 96 championship team but did not get the minutes that Wall has, but if you look at his numbers for minute, they are pretty sporty! BTW, I have anaylised Sean Sutton’s numbers, and he may be the worst starting pg in NCAA history, FT% below 50, etc.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Check The Numbers

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/stat1995-96.html Turner = 13 minutes and 4.5 ppg on 1995-96 team.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/stat2000-01.html Hawkins = 11 minutes and 3 ppg.

Neither was a HUGE factor on either team, just back-up PG numbers for both.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

check the numbers?

That is why I suggest numbers for minute. Hawkins, however enters the discussion for me based on the Duke game where J. Williams was holding his uni through the lane, just could not stop him…but because of the “Jayson Williams rules”, (just like the “jordan rules”), he (williams, the most over-rated player, and most-assisted by refs)never got called for it, but got calls when no one was within 3 feet of him. Hawkins blew him away in that game.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

No ...

… not really. Neither started.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to start a war...

Famous last words, huh.
But I really feel in my soul of souls, that Rondo would have been a much better, yes much better, player under Calapari. He never seemed to mesh with Smith’s style/attitude. Plus Cal puts great guards in the league. Should have seen Ty. Evans last night against Washington, he’s going to be great.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

I agree..

Rondo unleashed would have been a much different player than the caged version that he was with Tubby running the show. No knock on Tubby as that was his style, but when he did have the opportunity to push it, he put on a show, now imagine that all game long.

by JRod1229 on Dec 17, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo

What suprised me about Rondo’s early exit to the NBA was his horrible decision-making, and awful FT shooting…

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know about horrible decision-making

Wall’s hasn’t exactly been stellar yet either. I think Rondo is one of the most underrated players in the league. He nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs last year. Didn’t surprise me either. I always thought he’d be a solid if not stellar pro. Somewhat like The Glove.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions  

solid pro

He is a solid pro, but while at UK, he did not do the basic point guard things well(protect the ball , shoot ft’s, getting him to feed the post was like pulling teeth,etc.), thus why I was suprised that he went pro early, and was picked up. Which leads to pro scouting, what did they see in tjhis guy?Obviously they were right, but if being the quickest player on the floor, with good hands, is enough to make an NBA roster, where is Wayne Turner? Better in every measure than Rondo, except ft’s, about even there, and Turner was a winner!

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo

I always thought Rondo was a great talent and knew he would be very good in the NBA. I really think a lot of his problem at UK had to do with a personality conflict between him and his coach. I just dont think Tubby got Rondo’s maximum potential for whatever reason.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

Not True At All

He has praised Tubby greatly the past 3 years for teaching him defense and getting him ready for NBA.

Several articles and quotes like that in the past year or so.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol - I knew this was coming.

I understand. How about this: It is of my opinion that Rondo’s maximum potential was not achieved under the coaching of Tubby Smith.

Disclaimer: The thoughts and opinions of kentuckygirl0724 are not representative of the thoughts or opinions of the ASOB site or any of its individual members.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

But That's NOT Rondo's Opinion

He has been quoted saying the opposite. He oughta know. You oughta don’t.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

And you oughta....

eh.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, tink,

how could you not know everyone else’s opinion?? ;)

what any of that has to do with your opinion, i have no idea.

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Dec 17, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's My Point(s)

There are plenty of negative facts about the Tubby era. Post those if you want.

But Rondo praises Tubby for teaching him defense and getting him ready for NBA. Those 2 alone know if they got along. They both say they did (and do).

Rondo came over to Tubby and Donna’s place in Minnesota when the Celtics are in town. That’s evidence the two men are on a friendly basis and respect each other.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Forty...don't change the topic

The second post made was very clear and one I (an ardent Tubby Supporter) agree with…Rondo to not reach his potential under coach Smith. That is a fact. You can throw numbers and spew stats all day….that doesn’t change the fact that regardless of if they get along or not Tubby did not take full advantage of Rondo’s talent. Do you remember that year at all? All the talk of speeding up the tempo and lettin them play? That lasted about 10 games and Smith decided that was enough. Even those ten games were never all out…just in spurts. That was the first year I started to doubt Coach Smith as the UK coach…

by sylvar on Dec 17, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

ON THAT TOPIC Both Rondo And Tubby

Disagree with you and have been quoted thusly. No facts, their own words.

Rondo has said Tubby taught him defense that he needs in the NBA.

His words, not mine.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 18, 2009 6:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Boston Globe Earlier This Year

Page 4 of 4 —
When Rondo declared for the NBA draft after his sophomore season, rumors of a personal conflict between player and coach surfaced. Both men said that was never the case … “It was a point guard and a coach,” said Rondo. “Sometimes we were on the same page. Sometimes we weren’t. It’s just how it is. It’s how me and Doc [Rivers] is. You don’t always see eye to eye.”

“He’s a little stubborn, but a lot of great athletes have that in them,” said Smith. “I don’t think I’ve coached a better athlete than Rajon Rondo at any level. Pound for pound, size for size, I’d put Rajon up against anybody.”

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Back the horse up

You can’t go making fun of Forty for his love of Tubby when you are the same if not worse with Billy G. And Tubby is 10 times the coach, and 100 times the person than Billy G.

Just saying……

First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...

by btcoop71 on Dec 18, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Just sayin...

Whatever. Im done here.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 18, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

All I Meant Was The Fact That

Both Rondo and Tubby have been publicly quoted they are OK with each other.

Gillispie is a good recruiter and coach but was a bad fit at UK. If he gets over his (issues), he’ll show that somewhere else.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I was never a Rondo fan.

In my opinion he was a very selfish player and cared more about himself then the team. I have always felt he didn’t like Patrick Sparks and purposely tried to make Sparks look bad in Patricks senior year. That did change in the NCAA tourney game against UConn when Rondo knew he needed Sparks to beat them but it was too late. I wish somebody could change my mind about this, because I still hold a grudge against Rondo. Am I wrong? If Boston could get Wall in the draft, Rondo would be history in Boston, that I do fell comfortable with.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

rondo fan

I agree completely with you, and thought Spark’s and Rondo’s roles should have been reversed.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That's funny!

I was the exact opposite. I was a big Rondo fan and supporter. Sparks, on the other hand, well…let’s just say I was NOT a fan.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol!

Dang I’m taking a beating around here today! ;)

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I Liked Sparks

But he and Rondo didn’t fit well in the same backcourt.

And they (briefly) had the same girlfriend in 2006.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet another Opinion

I like BOTH players and thought they played well off one another. Forty, You would be the first to point out the success of the 2005 season. Not a bad year for a back court that did not like each other. The difference going in to 2005-2006 I believe was more about the drop in talent at Power forward (Chuck Hayes to Bobby Perry and Thomas)

by LyricSmith on Dec 17, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

You Failed To Note

They had the same girlfriend in 2006 (not 2005).

Hayes and Azubuike were “4” and “3” in 2005.

Perry and Crawford were “4” and “3” in 2006.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 18, 2009 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

You may be right

I heard some pretty vicious rumors concerning the two and off court incidents, but you know how rumors are…

But just on talent, I think Rondo is good. Defensively he’s better than Wall, not as skilled offensively but still a good creator and somewhat creative finisher. If the two went head to head, it would be tough for Wall. Rondo has the size and strength to match Wall’s. If they were the same age, I’d give the edge to Wall. If I had to have one right now based on the next three year’s, I’d say Rondo slightly.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Again I'm going to point to the coach

Crawford sure looked purty good his senior year. Perhaps we would have done better with Lofton than either, who knows?

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Crawford

Crawford was hyped as the best player ever out of Michigan. That is the reason for the comparo.Reality seems to bear out my argument.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Baloney

Nothing close to that.

Pure BS.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Nothing close to that

I’m getting that from Dukie V, who mentioned that every time Crawford hit the court.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I never once heard Crawford

being mentioned as the best player ever out of Michigan. That player has already came and gone. Does the name Magic bring back any memories?

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Not absurd to bring up coaching at all

Crawford credited Gillispie (his COACH his senior year) for getting the most out of his basketball skills – or something along those lines.

Joe oughta know…. and all that.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

oughta...

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Dec 17, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait

Arent yours and mine spelled the same way? I’m confused. lol.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

It Certainly Is

Crawford was excellent as a junior, too. And not bad as sophomore (averaged 10+ ppg).

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Crawford

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Crawford_Joe.html Averaged double digits as SG starter 3 straight years.

Care to name any others (3 years, SG starter, 10+ ppg) recently? Delk. (That’s all in the 1990’s)

Bogans and Fitch in 2000’s. Not that many (3 years, SG starter, 10+ ppg) in UK history.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

shooting guards at UK

Davender, Minnifield,Casey,Dampier,Master…

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Davender And Minniefield Were PG Not SG

Casey, Dampier are two of few.

Master was not a 3 year starter averaging 10+ ppg each year.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I've tried to stay out of this because you

can’t compare players from different eras (IMO), but Dampier was the best pure shooter I ever saw in person. His other skills sometimes get overshadowed because of the shooting role he played. Oh, yeah, he played on the UK baseball team, too. I try not to comment on people I haven’t seen in person.

No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!

by oldcat'69 on Dec 17, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say you are qualified to judge talent there Oldcat......

way more qualified than a lot of us

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Dec 17, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

No Doubt

The best shooter at UK.

It was my privilege to see Rick Mount play his senior year at Purdue in 1969-70.

He’s the best I ever saw.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Never saw Mount play in person, but of those I did,

Bob Tallent was the second best and Pete Maravich the third best pure shooter. From what I saw on TV, Mount was as good as anyone ever.

No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!

by oldcat'69 on Dec 18, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, yeah, and Bobby Plump

made one of the best shots ever, but it took him two tries.

No moral victories--it's all about Ws and Ls!!!

by oldcat'69 on Dec 18, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

best players/different eras

Shooting is one thing that never changes, so it makes an excellent comparison point. However, I only remember as far back as about 1974, so I never saw Dampier play at UK, but I have read and heard a lot about him to the point that he seems legendary.Of all players I have seen at ANY level that I have seen or played against, Jeff Hall (Fairveiw H.S., Louisville NCAA title 86) was the best shooter, while Kyle Macy was the best in every other regard.

"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO

by ro307805 on Dec 18, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Cameron Mills

Why no one mentions him, I’m not sure.

Among recent UK players, he’s way up there.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Crawford Played a mostly the 3

Just sayin’ …He played Mostly 3 as a Sophomore and a Junior..Out of position by need.

by LyricSmith on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo vs Sparks

It all depends on what your perception of what “good basketball” is. If a point guard who is selfish with the ball, cannot shoot ft’s, and freezes out the post is your idea of that, then Rondo is your guy. If a guy who plays well within the system he is in, involves his team-mates, hits clutch ft’s and game-winning shots, is your idea of “good basketball”, then Spark’s is your guy.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

rondo...

NEVER would have hit those 3 free throws with an empty lane to send the UL game to OT…

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Dec 17, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

no doubt..

No coach in his right mind would trust him in that situation to make the right decision…hence,the true answer to the Wall/Rondo comparo! Wall, with the ball and the game on the line? He is the guy!

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

He made some clutch plays

No doubt. It was the other 39 minutes of the game that killed me. He just wasn’t much of a shooter and was too slow to get much else done.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

I really think Daniel,

Sparks shooting problems were helped by Rondo and how Rondo distributed the ball to him. Sparks was a much better shooter his Junior year.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Wall>Rondo, And It's Not Close

"Learn(ing) without thinking begets ignorance. Think(ing) without learning is dangerous."
-Confucius

by Wild Weasel on Dec 17, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

The NBA scouts were not drooling over Rondo,

but they sure are over Wall. Boston wasn’t shy about saying they did not want to give Rondo that new contract. They said he was not a high enough caliber player to warrant the money. They just didn’t have any other options though.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Scouts drooled over Shawn Bradley too

You never know. Pro game is coached and played differently than college. Wall definitely has more upside at this point, but like I said earlier, Rondo is the new G. Payton. Bottom line, any NBA team will be well served with either running their show over the next decade.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe the 76's scout. Look

how good their scouts have done in their history. Plus there is a big difference in point guards and big men projects.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I use to flinch every time Rondo

shot, but not with Wall. Wall has definitely surprised me and I am sure almost everybody with his shooting, same thing with Bledsoe.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Go John Wall!

The better Wall is, the less attention on Bledsoe, who I believe is a player-of-the-year caliber scorer for us in the future. If Wall gets the attention, maybe Bledsoe will be back next year with a year of NCAA experience under his belt.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

SI Power Rankings
John Wall Mania is reaching such a fever pitch that if he proposed the idea of, say, holding a Christian Laettner Night at Rupp Arena, Big Blue Nation would at least consider it instead of instantly revolting.

KU, UK, ’Cuse and the comments are great.

"Learn(ing) without thinking begets ignorance. Think(ing) without learning is dangerous."
-Confucius

by Wild Weasel on Dec 17, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

Wall is more talented than any mentioned above by anyone....have to agree with Forty on that

I think that Macy holds high regard because we saw him do everything by the book…..he was a dynamite shooter and was the best ever at the line. And he won a championship. Wayne Turner was a freak of nature….lol….or as Forty put it, the luckiest Son of a Gun ever to put on the uniform. Rondo was always going to be a better pro than a collegiate athlete, I think everyone knew that. But I will say this…..look at what they all accomplished/ will accomplish in the pros for your comparison, because comparing Wall in college is a waste of time. He wont be here that long. So we will have to wait 2-4 years. In Wall’s 3rd year as a pro, he will be the best since Magic, and maybe better than Magic was. He will not be as versatile, ( Magic even played center on one occasion) but when everything is said and done, Wall may be the best ever to suit up and play the game at his position.

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Dec 17, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

That was a memorable NBA finals

when Magic replaced the injured Kareem. (Lew Alcindor, WHO?).

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

IsiahThomas/John Wall

There is the real comparison, one where size, speed, abilty, game responsibilty, etc. are very close, with Mr. Thomas having success at both IU and the pros with completely different philosophies. As far as “talented”, in regards to Kyle Macy, is quckness and jumping ability the only talents that matter these days? Kyle Macy was at least Mr. Walls equal as a ball handler, a better decision maker, and still the best shooter I have seen at any level.

Flash...

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

Chris Henry: Another Senseless Death

Bengals WR dies from injuries suffered in domestic dispute.

"Learn(ing) without thinking begets ignorance. Think(ing) without learning is dangerous."
-Confucius

by Wild Weasel on Dec 17, 2009 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with Grasslands

Rondo, while immensely talented, was selfish and cared more about getting to the NBA than he did about helping Kentucky. I used to scream at my TV when he stood around on defense because he just didn’t feel like “gettin’ after it.” I thought his shooting was adequate at best, but I admit it improved with time. I certainly don’t blame him for going early to the NBA (if my son had that talent, I’d tell him to go), but I do blame him for being more focused on himself and his future NBA career than on the task at hand.

by UKCat on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

Wall/Rondo

One thing is for certain, I have not seen excitement at this level about a UK player in many moons! Based on that, and the real performance with Mr. Wall with the ball,game on the line,I would agree with anyone that he is the most complete freshman anyone hasseen at UK in recent years. I can’t remember anyone since Rex Chapman that had this much in-state attention, and even Rex did not get anywhere near the national attention John Wall has received.

"Ignorance, I can fix, stupidity, well that's another matter!"-82nd Airborne NCO

by ro307805 on Dec 17, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

Wall is one of the greatest freshmen

In Uk lure, but Rondo is still a good/soon to be recognized as great player too. And I still believe his coach didn’t get enough out of him in college. Same with Azubukie and Crawford. Smith just seemed better at developing big men as opposed to guards, especially on D. The development of three mentioned under new coaching proves that. I think Rondo could have been a one and done player under Cal, maybe even Gillespie.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you smoking some of

Kentucky’s finest Daniel? Rondo is not great (it helps to be able to shoot), he is surrounded by a ton of talent in Boston. Boston management even came out in the paper and questioned his abilities.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo's been like a brother to you...

I don’t see how you can say such a thing. And for the record, Wall is surrounded by quite a bit of talent as well. Does that mean his achievements are tainted? Rondo was arguably the best player on the Celts last year, granted Garnett was injured. Wall is great, Rondo is pretty solid too. When you start trying to compare players from different teams it’s a round and round circle. If Emmit played for the Lions, would he have been the all-time leading rusher? What would stockton have been without Malone? What would Kentucky be without sweet cheebah?
As you can tell, great things feed off each other. Sure Rondo plays with some greats, but many other players have too and don’t have a ring to show for it.

by daniel81 on Dec 17, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo very good, but IMO

not great. He will have a nice long career but I don’t see him Hall of Fame material. That’s where the great ones end up. Rondo’s job is to get the talent the ball, Wall’s job is to be one of the talents.

by Grasslands1 on Dec 17, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Very interesting

I’ve always thought of Rondo as a different type of PG from Wall. I don’t have anything to really back that up, they just seem like players who have different ways of going about their job.

I have a technical question for you Tru. I’ve been trying to use some of those comparison charts from statsheet in a fanpost I’m working on, but I can’t get them to show up. I’m using the code provided by statsheet and have followed their directions, but I still can’t get it to work.

The source code on this page it looks different from what I’m trying to include, do you have to change what statsheet provides in order to get it to show up on the SBN platform?

Thanks.

3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.

by JLeverenz on Dec 17, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

It doesn't seem to work in the Fanposts.

I have no idea why. I’ll ask the magic monkeys if that’s a bug or a feature. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, okay.T

I’ll try something else I suppose. Thanks!

3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.

by JLeverenz on Dec 17, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Check your email.

Just a suggestion. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

John Wall

I think it is fair to say, that even John himself couldn’t have imagined the unbelievible amount of attention he has gotten. My hope is that this doesn’t become a distraction for the team, and for John personally. We don’t need all this attention, which UK fans want, to become the achilles heel.

by UK1972 on Dec 17, 2009 6:11 PM EST reply actions  

That concerns me also.

But so far, he is handling it with aplomb. You always worry about a great player reading his own press clippings, or the team getting jealous. That’s another reason why Wall sharing the ball is so important.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally agree ....

I certainly don’t want to see or feel there might be jealousy among the team. That would be detrimental to the goal of getting the team to work as one. Sharing is very important. I was really concerned about assists the first couple of games. I think things will fall in place just fine. :-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Dec 17, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Wall is much better

Forget the stats. As a UK freshman, Rondo had great foot and hand quickness and raw physical ability, but he was not a polished basketball player; he had not developed all the requisite skills. And he seemed to have an aloof attitude; never quite fit in with the team, provided no visible leadership. I think he really wanted to be in Louisville. It was like he was serving time, waiting to be paroled to the NBA.

Wall is an outstanding basketball player, terrific athlete, and a team leader. His play, enthusiasm and smiles are infectious. (How many times did Rondo smile?)

Rondo has developed into a very good pro player. Wall could become an all-time great at UK and in the pros.

by Fortunatus on Dec 17, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, Rondo Preferred Louisville

But Pitino only offered him walk-on status as a freshman, believe it or not.

Ditto Lofton. Also wanted to be a Cardinal but U of L didn’t offer him a scholarship.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 18, 2009 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Stats Method

Tru-
It looks to me like you have included the “zeros” stat line from John Wall’s game sitting on the bench in your data, and I’m wondering if that is ruining the validity of your John Wall “trend line.”
It is literally true, he trended up when he went from being benched to playing, but he did so on all stats, points, turnovers, the good and the bad. Can you drop that “missing data point” from the trendline?

by Gobe Igbloo on Dec 18, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe a little.

I’m not sure if the software ignores that or not, I assume it’s smart enough to do so. I’m too lazy to check the math. Feel free if you’re so inclined. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 18, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

that's cool with me

I’m not so inclined. today anyway!

by Gobe Igbloo on Dec 18, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

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